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(c) Has an independent investigation been carried out to check the instances which she quoted?
THE CHAIRMAN replied as follows:
The Colonial Secretary has asked me to say that all three parts of your question relate to a debate which was held on a motion sanctioned by the Council in Committee of the Whole, being a debate not on a matter included within Section 54 of the Urban Council Ordinance. I have, therefore, been requested to inform Members that the question is in breach of Standing Order 8(8), as not being confined to a matter within the jurisdiction of the Council. In the circumstances, I regret that I must rule this question out of order.
MR. BERNACCHI:-Sir, I would request that this matter be referred to the Standing Orders and Procedures Select Committee. Surely questions arising from a debate in accordance with Standing Orders are themselves within this Council's jurisdiction? Section 54 of the Urban Council Ordinance deals with the duties of this Council.
MR. SALES:-Sir, may I point out that not all three parts relate to matters outside the scope of the Urban Council. Part A is a question directed at the proceedings of this Council, and so that part in itself refers to the transactions at a previous meeting, and having reference to minutes, it can be raised by members at any time.
As to the other three points, and to the reply that has been given, I think that the matter ought to be very seriously considered by the Standing Orders and Procedures Committee, because I cannot accept this reply, which evidently has been drafted by the Legal Department, upon whom the taxpayer spends nearly half a million dollars to buy legal books, and we in this Council have seen previous evidence of their endeavours. I, as a member of that Select Committee, challenge this reply.
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, as Chairman of the Standing Orders and Procedures Select Committee, may I seek enlightenment as to why, having considered this question out of order, you allowed it to be put on the Agenda and to state in a public meeting that it is out of order?
CHAIRMAN:-The answer is very simple. It was put on the Agenda on Friday. The Agenda was issued on Friday evening or Saturday morning, in accordance with Standing Orders of this Council. The instructions I received were received yesterday morning.
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, the instructions you have received can be considered as one aspect; but the other aspect has to do with the Procedure and Standing Orders of this Council. Are you implying, Sir, that Government has a right to over-rule the Standing Orders of this Council?
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
CHAIRMAN:-I made no such statement, Sir, at all. I have given my reply and have nothing to add to it. May I say, Sir, with respect to what Mr. BERNACCHI said, I will certainly refer the matter to the Standing Orders and Procedures Select Committee.
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, recognizing the fact that you are about to go on leave, we Unofficial Members are prepared to be gracious on this. (Laughter).
MR. BERNACCHI:-It isn't the Chairman's fault.
(10) MR. B. A. BERNACCHI asked the following question:
(a) Has the new franchise proposed by the Working Party been approved by Government (subject always to the necessary legislation being passed by the Legislative Council)?
(b) If so, what steps are being taken so that it can become effective for the next elections?
THE CHAIRMAN replied as follows:
I understand that legislation on the lines proposed by the Working Party is being prepared and that, if enacted, it is intended that it should be made effective in time for the next election. A full statement will no doubt be made when the Bill is introduced into the Legislative Council.
(11) MR. A. de O. SALES asked the following question:
(a) May this Council know how many trees and shrubs your Department expects to plant in the urban areas this year?
(b) What steps are being taken to encourage the Services, schools, clubs, and even residents to help beautify Hong Kong in this way?
(c) What plans does your Department have to create more flower beds and also put up more boxes along our roads and streets?
THE CHAIRMAN replied as follows:
The answer to part (a) of the question is that the provisional planting target for 1966 is 100,000 trees and 62,000 ornamental shrubs.
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(c) Has an independant investigation been carried out to
check the instances which she quoted?
THE CHAIRMAN replied as follows: ----
The Colonial Secretary has asked me to say that all three parts of your question relate to a debate which was held on a motion sanctioned by the Council in Committee of the Whole, being a debate not on a matter included within Section 54 of the Urban Council Ordinance. 1 have, therefore, been requested to inform Members that the question is in breach of Standing Order 8(8), as not being confined to a matter within the jurisdiction of the Council. In the circumstances I regret therefore I must rule this question out of order.
MR. BERNACCHI-Sir, I would request that this matter be referred to the Standing Orders and Procedures Select Committee. Surely questions arising from a debate in accordance with Standing Orders are themselves within this Council's jurisdiction? Section 54 of the Urban Council Ordinance deals with the duties of this Council.
MR. SALES-Sir, may I point out that not all three parts relate to matters outside the scope of the Urban Council. Part A is a question directed at the proceedings of this Council, and so that part in itself refers to the transactions at a previous meeting, and having reference to minutes, it can be raised by members at any time.
As to the other three points, and to the reply that has been given, I think that the matter ought to be very seriously considered by the Standing Orders and Procedures Committee, because I cannot accept this reply, which evidently has been drafted by the Legal Department, upon whom the taxpayer spends nearly half a million dollars to buy legal books, and we in this Council have seen previous evidence of their endeavours. I as a member of that Select Committee challenge this reply.
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, as Chairman of the Standing Orders and Procedures Select Committee, may I seek enlightenment as to why, having considered this question out of order, that you allowed it to be put on the Agenda and to state in a public meeting that it is out of order?
CHAIRMAN: --The answer is very simple. It was put on the Agenda on Friday. The Agenda was issued on Friday evening or Saturday morning, in accordance with Standing Orders of this Council. The instructions I received, were received yesterday morning.
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:- Mr. Chairman, the instructions you have received can be considered as one aspect; but the other aspect has to
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693
Are you
do with the Procedure and Standing Orders of this Council. implying, Sir, that Government has a right to over-rule the Standing Orders of this Council?
CHAIRMAN:-I made no such statement, Sir, at all. I have given my reply and have nothing to add to it. May I say, Sir, with respect to what Mr. BERNACCHI said, I will certainly refer the matter to the Standing Orders and Procedures Select Committee.
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, recognizing the fact that you are about to go on leave, we Unofficial Members are prepared to be gracious on this. (Laughter).
MR. BERNACCHI:-It isn't the Chairman's fault.
(10) MR. B. A. BERNACCHI asked the following question:·
(a) Has the new franchise proposed by the Working Party been approved by Government (subject always to the necessary legislation being passed by the Legislative Council)?
(b) If so, what steps are being taken so that it can become
effective for the next elections?
-.
THE CHAIRMAN replied as follows:-
I understand that legislation on the lines proposed by the Working Party is being prepared and that, if enacted, it is intended that it should be made effective in time for the next election. A full statement will no doubt be made when the Bill is introduced into the Legislative Council.
(11) MR. A. de O. SALES asked the following question:
(a) May this Council know how many trees and shrubs your Department expects to plant in the urban areas this year? (b) What steps are being taken to encourage the Services, schools, clubs and even residents to help beautify Hong Kong in this way?
(c) What plans does your Department have to create more flower beds and also put up more boxes along our roads and streets?
THE CHAIRMAN replied as follows:-
The answer to part (a) of the question is that the provisional planting target for 1966 is 100,000 trees and 62,000 orna-
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