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HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

CHAIRMAN: --Sir, I must remind you that in Hong Kong we have not got many hundreds of square miles. (Laughter).

MR. SALES: -May I have your permission, Sir, to exercise my right of reply? I am indeed grateful for the support that this motion has found. I am obliged to my colleague the Senior Unofficial Member for having seconded this motion. All my Unofficial colleagues have spoken with one voice in urging Government to seize this opportunity for the extension of Victoria Park because it is not likely to occur again. Those of us who are concerned with the work of the Urban Amenities Select Committee are keenly aware of the fact that there is no playground of any size and consequence and at sea level from one end of the harbour to the other. I will not go over the points which my Unofficial colleagues have made because they are all valid and they are in support of my motion. I do, however, Sir, wish to refer to the points which you and my colleague the Director of Public Works have made when giving your support to this motion as well.

The Director of Public Works made three points. First, he expressed surprise that Members should even have mentioned that Government intended to auction off this parcel of land. I may be forgiven for suggesting, Sir, that my colleagues are only voicing a fear which they know very well exists in Hong Kong, because the record of the Hong Kong Government is that it auctions off every bit of land that it can lay its hands on. In fact, the Government of Hong Kong has perhaps the greatest record in the world as a land auctioneer.

The second point made by my colleague the Director of Public Works concerns the fact that it is not right for us to say that there is no major open space at sea level along the waterfront, because in effect in the new development of the land given up by the Naval Dockyard there is a vast expanse which has been earmarked as open space. True, there is that land which has been set aside for recreational purposes, but time does not stand still while children play on the streets and are exposed to the various dangers which exist. In consequence, this land is lying idle. If it is Government's intention that that part of the land should be developed as an open space, may I put it to you, Sir, why is it that it has not been given to us immediately, so that we may develop it intelligently instead of allowing the land to lie fallow while children go about without recreational facilities?

The third point which my friend made was a repetition of what he said in reply to my speech made last year at the time when I was away, and I regret that I did not in effect challenge it when I returned, and that is concerning statistics. May I point out to you, Sir, that however correct these figures may be and I accept them, they do not conform with the prescription adopted by this Council unofficially and

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which I believe has been accepted not firmly but by way of guide lines by the Town Planning Board, and that is, that 10% should be reserved as open space in any town plan. 244 acres were auctioned off. Added to that, the 500 acres which Government has used for public housing and other such purposes, make a total of 744 acres. 172 acres were developed as open space, plus the 13 acres in the housing and resettlement estates, still make a total of only 185 acres. Added to that is the fact that there are hundreds of acres in old districts without any open space, so we find that out of a total of 185 acres, if only 10% of the built-up area is taken into account, we would have to deduct 74 acres, leaving only 111 acres to make good the deficiency of the past to relieve the shortage of open space in heavily congested areas. Sir, I trust that I have laid low that particular point as not being at all valid in our circumstances.

DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS:—Mr. Chairman, on a point of order, could I ask Mr. SALES to clarify his arithmetic? (Laughter).

MR. SALES: -I have repeated it and perhaps the Secretary of the Urban Council might like to give the figures to the Director of Public Works.

DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS:-Then, Mr. Chairman, on another point of clarification, may I say that I do not accept his figures.

MR. SALES: --Well, it is just a question of simple arithmetic. Perhaps we did not go to the same school (Laughter), but I have no doubt about my figures at all. Mr. Chairman, you alluded to a report in the Press to-day, that Hong Kong has the greatest number of recreational facilities or perhaps the greatest open area compared with other cities. Am I right?

CHAIRMAN:-The reference, Sir, was to open space. It may have included the New Territories. (Laughter).

MR. SALES: May I add, and I am sure that my Unofficial colleagues share with me the thought that perhaps this was a handout by the Government Information Services, having no relation at all to our own experience of what amount of open space there is in the urban areas.

CHAIRMAN: -On a point of clarification, the gentleman who made the statement is a visiting expert. I think his name was Mr. CROWE.

MR. SALES-Then, Sir, I suggest that he was taken on a conducted tour, not by Unofficial Members of this Council, but by Government. (DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS-Do you think, Mr. Chairman, that he might have got some honest figures? (Laughter)). He could not possibly have got honest figures if he did not consult the Urban

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