Page 284 of 382
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
The motion was carried.
CHAIRMAN: I suggest that we now have a recess in order to have some tea to prepare ourselves for the stern admonitions of Dr. LEE. (Laughter).
(A brief recess was held at this point)
DR. R. H. S. LEE:- Mr. Chairman, In closing this debate tonight, I fully realize the honour that this Council has given me in allowing me to propose and to reply to the Motion at this year's Annual Debate. At the same time I am aware of the heavy responsibility that falls on my shoulders for I am not replying in my own personal capacity, but on behalf of all the Unofficials. I have to set an example of sufficiently high standard for others who may follow me in years to come. In this respect I have to be not only circumspect, responsible, constructive but also to the point.
While I have been on this Council for more than 12 years I have not realized until now that the Chairman and Official Members of this Council are not masters of their own fate but mere puppets of higher Government Servants who function in the Secretariat. (Laughter).
The most instructive thing that I have learned in studying the Unofficial and Official Speeches is the reluctance of Official Members to reply to the most important points made by the Unofficials.
The silence relating to making this Council a Municipal Council raised by Mr. BERNACCHI, Mr. K. S. Lo and myself is really significant. The same may be said of Mr. SALES' suggestion in making an Unofficial a Chairman of the Standing Committee. It is equally significant that no official reply has been made to Mr. LI Yiu-bor's suggestion about making the Director of Education and the Director of Medical and Health Services Official Members of this Council. Again the same may be said of Mr. Henry Hu's proposal for the creation of Hong Kong citizenship. In other words all our major issues are ignored and only the secondary ones are answered and even these are not entirely correct. I refer to the Deputy Director of Medical and Health Services' remark that the hospital "building programme has therefore provided somewhat over two beds for every thousand of our present population and in such terms represents an achievement which I believe cannot be matched elsewhere in the world". Is he not aware, Sir, that in highly developed countries like America there is provision for 4 or even 5 beds for every thousand of population? In other words, there is one bed to every 200-250 persons. It is my experience that in Hong Kong there is immense difficulty in trying to get a patient into a Government hospital, but none whatsoever to a private hospital.
My colleagues and I appreciate the explanation given by you in reply to Mr. SALES as to what is being done by Government to employ local people and to afford them the training, here and abroad, which is necessary to enable them to discharge their functions properly. We hope that Government will do far more to anticipate public service requirements by engaging local people with basic qualifications and then send them overseas for training as Mr. SALES suggested, rather than advertise for such posts at the time that they are to be filled which might mean that there would be no local candidates with the specialist qualifications called for by the posts.
While you have declared that more than 97% of the civil service is staffed by local people, you must agree, Sir, that such a percentage has little meaning when the remaining 3% is made up almost entirely of top posts. This means in effect that overseas people are still running the show and making the high-level policy decisions. Why is this so? It is certainly most unsatisfactory.
In his speech, Mr. SALES said in addition that equality of opportunity was not enough and there must be complete parity of treatment. It is a fundamental human right that there must be equal pay for equal work done. You have said nothing on this score. Presumably there is nothing to say for you cannot refute this argument nor deny this to the local man. This is the whole reason for dissatisfaction among those who should rightly find in Hong Kong the opportunities in Government service for which their abilities and qualifications make them suitable. May I repeat: there must be parity of treatment between local and overseas staff if we are to see fair play in the civil service. After all, Hong Kong is our home.
You and your Official colleagues have spent a lot of time dealing with secondary issues as you do each year. In this way you draw a red herring across the whole Debate. You ignore the important points of policy which the Unofficials make. We give much time and thought to our work and try to reflect public opinion and to advocate the cause of the people. If Government ignores the aspirations of the people as you and your colleagues have done today, Government does so at its own peril.
The steps being taken to provide for more restaurants in the old Mark I and II estates as outlined by the Commissioner for Resettlement are probably the best that we can do in the circumstances. But as to Mark III and IV, the necessity for more restaurants was foreseen and were made known to the Department and, it is my opinion, that if
546
Those against?
547
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
is one bed to every 200-250 persons. It is my experience that in Hong Kong there is immense difficulty in trying to get a patient into a Govern- ment hospital, but none whatsoever to a private hospital.
...
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(replaced with corrected version below)
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382
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Those against?
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
The motion was carried.
CHAIRMAN: I suggest that we now have a recess in order to have some tea to prepare ourselves for the stern admonitions of Dr. LEE. (Laughter).
(A brief recess was held at this point)
DR. R. H. S. LEE:-Mr. Chairman, In closing this debate tonight, I fully realize the honour that this Council has given me in allowing me to propose and to reply to the Motion at this year's Annual Debate. At the same time I am aware of the heavy responsibility that falls on my shoulders for I am not replying in my own personal capacity, but on behalf of all the Unofficials. I have to set an example of sufficiently high standard for others who may follow me in years to come. In this respect I have to be not only circumspect, responsible, constructive but also to the point.
While I have been on this Council for more than 12 years I have not realized until now that the Chairman and Official Members of this Council are not masters of their own fate but mere puppets of higher- Government Servants who function in the Secretariat. (Laughter).
The most instructive thing that I have learned in studying the Unofficial and Official Speeches is the reluctance of Official Members to reply to the most important points made by the Unofficials.
The silence relating to making this Council a Municipal Council raised by Mr. BERNACCHI, Mr. K. S. Lo and myself is really significant. The same may be said of Mr. SALES' suggestion in making an Un- official a Chairman of the Standing Committee. It is equally significant that no official reply has been made to Mr. LI Yiu-bor's suggestion about making the Director of Education and the Director of Medical and Health Services Official Members of this Council. Again the same may be said of Mr. Henry Hu's proposal for the creation of Hong Kong citizenship. In other words all our major issues are ignored and only the secondary ones are answered and even these are not entirely correct. I refer to the Deputy Director of Medical and Health Services' remark that the hospital "building programme has therefore provided somewhat over two beds for every thousand of our present population and in such terms represents an achievement which I believe cannot be matched elsewhere in the world". Is he not aware Sir, that in highly developed countries like America there is provision for 4 or even 5 beds for every thousand of population? In other words, there
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
547
is one bed to every 200-250 persons. It is my experience that in Hong Kong there is immense difficulty in trying to get a patient into a Govern- ment hospital, but none whatsoever to a private hospital.
My colleagues and I appreciate the explanation given by you in reply to Mr. SALES as to what is being done by Government to employ local people and to afford them the training, here and abroad, which is necessary to enable them to discharge their functions properly. We hope that Government will do far more to anticipate public service requirements by engaging local people with basic qualifications and then send them overseas, for training as Mr. SALES suggested, rather than advertise for such posts at the time that they are to be filled which might mean that there would be no local candidates with the specialists qualifications called for by the posts.
While you have declared that more than 97% of the civil service is staffed by local people, you must agree, Sir, that such a percentage has little meaning when the remaining 3% is made up almost entirely of top posts. This means in effect that overseas people are still running the show and making the high level policy decisions. Why is this so? It is certainly most unsatisfactory.
In his speech, Mr. SALES said in addition that equality of oppor- tunity was not enough and there must be complete parity of treatment. It is a fundamental human right that there must be equal pay for equal Presumably there work done. You have said nothing on this score.
is nothing to say for you cannot refute this argument nor deny this to the local man. This is the whole reason for dissatisfaction among those who should rightly find in Hong Kong the opportunities in Government service for which their abilities and qualifications make them suitable. May I repeat: there must be parity of treatment between local and overseas staff if we are to see fair play in the civil service. After all, Hong Kong is our home.
You and your Official colleagues have spent a lot of time dealing with secondary issues as you do each year. In this way you draw a red herring across the whole Debate. You ignore the important points of policy which the Unofficials make. We give much time and thought to our work and try to reflect public opinion and to advocate the cause of the people. If Government ignores the aspirations of the people as you and your colleagues have done today, Government does so at its own peril.
The steps being taken to provide for more restaurants in the old Mark I and II estates as outlined by the Commissioner for Resettle- ment are probably the best that we can do in the circumstances. But as to Mark III and IV, the necessity for more restaurants was foreseen and were made known to the Department and, it is my opinion, that if
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