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more amendments of Ordinances in which we are vitally concerned. As the Legislative Council goes into Committee to consider a draft of an ordinance as presented by the Attorney General's Department, we should have a Select Committee to consider the drafts of any proposed legislation including any proposed amendment legislation affecting any matter over which this Council has been given statutory jurisdiction. After all, we are the ones to put such an Ordinance into effect—make it work; and at some stage along the line we should be consulted and our wishes made clear to the drafters and finally to the Legislative Council.
Mr. Chairman, I beg to move this Motion.
DR. RAYMOND LEE:—I am not the type that stands up on their feet and makes long speeches when they second motions like I am doing at the present moment, but that is what I have been asked to do. (Laughter)
I second this Motion.
DR. BELL:—Mr. Chairman, I support Mr. BERNACCHI'S motion before Council today, because apart from the very valid reasons that he has put forward for having a Select Committee, a Legal Drafting Select Committee, I feel that there is another reason which has recently transpired why such a Select Committee would be useful. There are many matters which could well be referred to a Legal Drafting Select Committee upon which advice would be given apart from what is suggested in this Motion. Such a Committee would presumably primarily consist of the many legal experts who are at present on this Council, and I would like to suggest that recently, interviews with the public in the wards have shown up the need for a Committee from which members of this Council could obtain some advice as to whether the answer to a particular problem lies in the Courts or not. Other Councillors may feel as I do that if we had such a Committee to which we could refer then we could advise members of the public with more certainty in some of their problems than at present, and I therefore support Mr. BERNACCHI'S Motion.
MR. HENRY HU:—Mr. Chairman, may I say a few words to support the Motion proposed by the Chairman of the Reform Club?
I think nowadays, legal drafting becomes almost a job for specialists. It needs skill and careful consideration. The regulations and by-laws that apply to the Urban Council are often very complicated in nature and sometimes vary much in detail. It often happens that if there is anything wrong in the legal enactment, even if it is only a small detail, this can produce a very bad effect on the public. In a society in which the conception of the rule of law is prevailing, the drafting of law is always an important matter. The right of changing the law whether by legislation or administrative regulation is now considered as one of the fundamental constitutional rights. It is therefore a good idea that a Legal Drafting Select Committee be set up without delay.
With these short remarks I support the motion of Mr. Brook BERNACCHI.
CHAIRMAN:—I find it difficult to see the need for the new Select Committee recommended in this motion, and certainly I feel that it would be unwise to force such a Select Committee upon the Council in the time available for debate this evening.
As far as Urban Services are concerned, surely there can be no question about consultation with the Council in respect of by-laws. They are made by this Council, after careful consideration by the appropriate Select Committees, and subsequently approved by the Legislative Council.
Regulations proposed under the authority of legislation which vests statutory powers in the Urban Council are again always referred to the appropriate Select Committees for consideration and the draft regulations are then referred to all Members of the Council before enactment. Any Member so wishing may have the draft regulation referred to the Standing Committee of the Whole Council for discussion. The same general considerations apply to amendments to Ordinances, where the proposed amendments fall within the competence of the Council.
The motion before us, if adopted, would introduce a further step in the procedure which would appear to be unnecessary. If, however, the intention is that the proposed committee should replace the need for legislation to be considered by the appropriate Select Committee, it would seem to me that there would be more chance for mistakes in that consideration of the matter would not necessarily be given by Members of the Select Committee who are well acquainted with the requirements.
As for legislation affecting the Resettlement Department for which the Urban Council is partially or wholly responsible, I would call on my friend the Commissioner for Resettlement to speak on the matter.
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT (MR. BARTY):—Mr. Chairman, I should like first of all to assure this Council that in the procedure followed when the Resettlement Ordinance and Regulations were recently being amended, there was no intention of insulting the Council. I would not contemplate doing such a thing, and I am sure that I can say the same for Government and for the officer who was Commissioner for Resettlement during the time when the amendments were drafted and were being enacted.
It is true that the drafts of the original Resettlement Bill and Regulations were discussed in great detail by the Resettlement and Clearance Policy Select Committee during 1958. Similarly, the actual wording of a
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more amendments of Ordinances in which we are vitally concerned. As the Legislative Council goes into Committee to consider a draft, of an ordinance as presented by the Attorney General's Department, we should have a Select Committee to consider the drafts of any proposed legislation including any proposed amendment legislation affecting any matter over which this Council has been given statutory jurisdiction. After all, we are the ones to put such an Ordinance into effect-make it work:-and at some stage along the line we should be consulted and our wishes made clear to the drafters and finally to the Legislative Council,
Mr. Chairman, I beg to move this Motion.
DR. RAYMOND LEE:-I am not the type that stands up on their feet and makes long speeches when they second motions like I am doing at the present moment, but that is what I have been asked to do. (Laughter)
I second this Motion.
DR. BELL:-Mr. Chairman, I support Mr. BERNACCHI'S motion before Council today, because apart from the very valid reasons that he has put forward for having a Select Committee, a Legal Drafting Select Committee, I feel that there is another reason which has recently transpired why such a Select Committee would be useful. There are many matters which could well be referred to a Legal Drafting Select Com- mittee upon which advice would be given apart from what is suggested in this Motion. Such a Committee would presumably primarily consist of the many legal experts who are at present on this Council, and I would like to suggest that recently, interviews with the public in the wards have shown up the need for a Committee from which members of this Council could obtain some advice as to whether the answer to a partic- ular problem lies in the Courts or not. Other Councillors may feel as I do that if we had such a Committee to which we could refer then we could advise members of the public with more certainty in some of their problems than at present, and I therefore support Mr. BERNACCHI'S Motion.
MR. HENRY HU:-Mr. Chairman, may I say a few words to support the Motion proposed by the Chairman of the Reform Club?
I think nowadays, legal drafting becomes almost a job for specialists. It needs skill and careful consideration. The regulations and by-laws that apply to the Urban Council are often very complicated in nature and sometimes vary much in detail. It often happens that if there is any- thing wrong in the legal enactment, even if it is only a small detail, this can produce a very bad effect on the public. In a society in which the conception of the rule of law is prevailing, the drafting of law is always an important matter. The right of changing the law whether by legisla- tion or administrative regulation is now considered as one of the funda-
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mental constitutional rights. It is therefore a good idea that a Legal Drafting Select Committee be set up without delay.
With these short remarks I support the motion of Mr. Brook BERNACCHI,
CHAIRMAN:-I find it difficult to see the need for the new Select Committee recommended in this motion, and certainly I feel that it would be unwise to force such a Select Committee upon the Council in the time available for debate this evening.
As far as Urban Services are concerned, surely there can be no question about consultation with the Council in respect of by-laws. They are made by this Council, after careful consideration by the appropriate Select Committees, and subsequently approved by the Legislative Council.
Regulations proposed under the authority of legislation which vests statutory powers in the Urban Council are again always referred to the appropriate Select Committees for consideration and the draft regulations are then referred to all Members of the Council before enactment. Any Member so wishing may have the draft regulation referred to the Standing Committee of the Whole Council for discussion. The same general considerations apply to amendments to Ordinances, where the proposed amendments fall within the competence of the Council.
The motion before us, if adopted, would introduce a further step in the procedure which would appear to be unnecessary. If, however, the intention is that the proposed committee should replace the need for legislation to be considered by the appropriate Select Committee, it would seem to me that there would be more chance for mistakes in that consideration of the matter would not necessarily be given by Members of the Select Committee who are well acquainted with the requirements.
As for legislation affecting the Resettlement Department for which the Urban Council is partially or wholly responsible, I would call on my friend the Commissioner for Resettlement to speak on the matter.
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT (MR. BARTY):—Mr. Chairman, I should like first of all to assure this Council that in the procedure followed when the Resettlement Ordinance and Regulations were recently being amended, there was no intention of insulting the Council. I would not contemplate doing such a thing, and I am sure that I can say the same for Government and for the officer who was Commissioner for Resettle- ment during the time when the amendments were drafted and were being enacted.
It is true that the drafts of the original Resettlement Bill and Regula- tions were discussed in great detail by the Resettlement and Clearance Policy Select Committee during 1958. Similarly, the actual wording of a
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