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do something to step up fire prevention measures in their buildings—but we cannot because we have nothing to do with the Fire Services Department.

The improvement of general management and fire prevention services in multi-storey buildings is today a most vexing problem. Vigorous and constructive measures are urgently required, and not just another Government Committee on sub-divided buildings which will take another two years to complete only to be shelved in the best Civil Service tradition.

Government, in the eyes of the man-in-the-street, has fallen down on the job.

The least the Government can now do is to let the Urban Council take over the Fire Services Department, because if we do we can do a good job for the public.

With these words, Mr. Chairman, I now formally move the motion.

MR. FUNG HON-CHU:—Mr. Chairman, we have heard the reasons put forward so ably by Mr. Hilton CHEONG-LEEN for moving the motion before Council and, for good measure, I would like to add a few more points to what he has said:—

With the Fire Services Department as a separate and independent body as at present, there are numerous problems of co-ordination between it and the Urban Services Department which can only be solved by giving the Urban Council a degree of control over that Department. I wish to specifically cite the issuing of Restaurant licences as an example. The time taken by the Fire Services for clearing applications for restaurant licences has now been reduced from an average of 25 days and 36 days for the Hong Kong island and the mainland respectively to 14 days for both sides of the harbour, following representations by the Urban Services Department very recently. You may recall that in the Annual Debates in this Council in 1964 and the Legislative Council this year I criticized the Fire Services Department for their procrastination in clearing applications for restaurant licences. Some improvement has no doubt resulted, but this only serves to strengthen the view that this department should be administered by the Urban Council. There are other directions in which improvements can be made, such as:—

The vague and ill-defined regulations which purport to define what constitutes a fire hazard are in many cases open to a good deal of speculation and different interpretations. As a result, the public is bewildered and the image of the department suffers. Meaningless and unenforceable regulations are carefully preserved, for what purpose, goodness knows.

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As far as restaurants are concerned, the following are two typical examples:—

1. "No decoration of an easily inflammable nature to be permitted."

2. "The number of persons permitted on the premises to be calculated at not less than 10 sq. ft. of dining area for each person."

The words "easily inflammable nature" are capable of being interpreted to mean almost anything and everything.

As to the minimum dining area of 10 sq. ft. for each person, this has proved to be impossible of enforcement and yet the Fire Services Department has not seen fit to revoke this and other outdated regulations. These vague and ill-defined regulations can only lead to inconsistencies and corruption and the most obvious remedy is surely to be found in the motion.

It may be some time before Government reaches a decision on this proposed step and to improve the situation in the interim, we should invite the Director of the Fire Services Department or his deputy to sit on all our relevant Select Committees. Also an experienced senior officer from that Department should be asked to serve in the Urban Services Department as a liaison officer, so that the existing extremely poor co-ordination can be improved without further delay.

Sir, I beg to second the motion before the Council.

MR. K. S. Lo:—Mr. Chairman, regardless as to whether Government is prepared to let the Fire Services Department be placed under the Urban Council or not, I would strongly urge that it should have a representative sitting on the Food and Food Premises Select Committee. I have served on this Committee for almost four years and I think I can say without being contradicted that it has always been the Fire Services Department which has caused the delay in the issue of licences to restaurants and food factories, but it is the Urban Council, the licensing authority, which generally gets the blame. The Council itself has very clear and specific written regulations for each type of licence, so that any applicant will know in advance what is required of him. On the other hand, the Fire Services Department does not give out such specific fire prevention requirements. Each case is dealt with on its own merit. And more often than not the instructions are given in the most general manner, so that an applicant has no choice but to call on the Department personally to seek further clarification. Not infrequently the requirements are handed out to the applicant one at a time. Thus on the first visit the applicant is told to rectify one thing, on the second visit he is told yet to rectify another thing. The result is an unnecessary and protracted delay which must inflict financial hardship to all applicants.

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