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MR. BERNACCHI-I haven't finished yet! (Laughter). And I haven't gathered from the answer that has been given by Mr. Sales, whether the expression "and other traffic matters" was his own insertion, or was in the original draft.
MR. SALES: -Mr. Chairman, I would like to compliment Mr. BERNACCHI on his co-operation. He gives me, as an unofficial member, an opportunity to advocate policy for this Council. I added "it will also fill a need for open space in the central district which could be used by the people at all times". I think that is an expression of policy which the Urban Amenities Select Committee will support. The sentence which I added entirely says here, "The Council has always taken a close interest in parking, and other traffic matters, so any suggestion you may have will be studied carefully, for sure". That entire sentence was written in my hand, so Mr. BERNACCHI may rejoice in the fact that the Urban Amenities Select Committee is most progressive. (Laughter).
MR. BERNACCHI:--Then Mr. Chairman, do you endorse that sentence? (Laughter).
MR. CHAIRMAN:-Sir, this is an expression of opinion: "that the Council has always taken a close interest in other traffic matters". It is not exactly a statement of policy.
MR. HU: Mr. Chairman, I would ask you whether matters concerning parking are within the jurisdiction of this Council?
CHAIRMAN: -Yes.
MR. SALES: -Mr. Chairman, I am delighted that you give me the opportunity to answer this supplementary. The Urban Amenities Select Committee has always felt very strongly that it is not given a far more important role in traffic and parking matters. I emphasize traffic and parking matters, not parking and traffic. In point of fact, if I recall, there is an outstanding reply from the Colonial Secretary as to the role the Urban Council should play in deciding where car parks should be set up, the capacity of such car parks and the entire control of the car parks. This is a question we put to the Government some time ago, and I do not recall that a clear answer has been made to us, and I am grateful to colleagues on the other side of the table for bringing these matters up.
MR. BERNACCHI:-Mr. Chairman, my chief concern is the expression "and other traffic matters". Does the department endorse that sentiment?
CHAIRMAN: The statement is that "Council has always taken a close interest in parking and other traffic matters." The Council has taken an interest in other traffic matters, to my certain knowledge, through the Traffic Advisory Committee on which it has a representative. Many points have been raised through this Council and through its representative on the Traffic Advisory Committee which I think would justify this statement "other traffic matters". Certainly, I am very well aware of the fact that the Council would like to have more interest in traffic than it has enjoyed up to the present time.
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MR. BERNACCHI :-Mr. Chairman, with respect, my words go to demonstrate that this is not in the least bit designed as a criticism of yourself, but if the department does adopt this last sentence, why did you reject a question asked by Mr. Hu about other traffic matters?
CHAIRMAN :--Sir, I am not aware of having rejected the question.
MR. HU:-Mr. Chairman, I think probably my friend Mr. BERNACCHI was not aware that my question was eventually allowed. (Laughter).
CHAIRMAN: --Perhaps I could explain the matter to Mr. BERNACCHI. The question that Mr. Hu first put to me in writing was, "Would you please put on the agenda a question in the following terms.
"Will you ask the representative of the Urban Council on the Traffic Advisory Committee to ask the following questions," and he framed a number of questions about Lung Cheung Road which you will find later on in this agenda. I wrote back and said more or less, "Well, why don't you ask him?" (Laughter).
"If you wish to ask him these questions, you are free to do so; there is no need for you to ask me to ask him in the Urban Council, where my answer would simply be yes." Mr. Hu then wrote back and said he wished publicity to be given to his question, so I said if he would be kind enough to get together with me, perhaps we could work out a question which would be suitable for asking in the Council. So a revised question was worked out and is now on the agenda, as far as I am aware. There was no refusal in the matter.
MR. BERNACCHI:--I thank you for your very clear explanation, and please accept my apologies for my question "Why did you reject”.
DR. BELL:-That may be a satisfactory answer to Mr. BERNACCHI, Mr. Chairman, but in the past, several years ago I asked and raised traffic questions here, and the answer which I received on every occasion was, “please refer them to the representative of the Traffic Advisory Committee," and I wonder now from your reply this afternoon to Mr. BERNACCHI, whether I can take it that traffic questions can now be asked in this Council. (Laughter).
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MR. BERNACCHI-I haven't finished yet! (Laughter). And I haven't gathered from the answer that has been given by Mr. Sales, whether the expression "and other traffic matters" was his own in- sertion, or was in the original draft.
MR. SALES: -Mr. Chairman, I would like to compliment Mr. BERNACCHI on his co-operation. He gives me, as an unofficial member, an opportunity to advocate policy for this Council. I added "it will also fill a need for open space in the central district which could be used by the people at all times". I think that is an expression of policy which the Urban Amenities Select Committee will support. The sentence which I added entirely says here, "The Council has always taken a close interest in parking, and other traffic matters, so any suggestion you may have will be studied carefully, for sure". That entire sentence was written in my hand, so Mr. BERNACCHI may rejoice in the fact that the Urban Amenities Select Committee is most pro- gressive. (Laughter).
MR. BERNACCH:--Then Mr. Chairman, do you endorse that sen- tence? (Laughter).
MR. CHAIRMAN:-Sir, this is an expression of opinion: "that the Council has always taken a close interest in other traffic matters". It is not exactly a statement of policy.
MR. HU: Mr. Chairman, I would ask you whether matters con- cerning parking are within the jurisdiction of this Council?
CHAIRMAN: -Yes.
MR. SALES: -Mr. Chairman, I am delighted that you give me the opportunity to answer this supplementary. The Urban Amenities Select Committee has always felt very strongly that it is not given a far more important role in traffic and parking matters. I emphasize traffic and parking matters, not parking and traffic. In point of fact, if I recall, there is an outstanding reply from the Colonial Secretary as to the role the Urban Council should play in deciding where car parks should be set up, the capacity of such car parks and the entire control of the car parks. This is a question we put to the Government some time ago, and I do not recall that a clear answer has been made to us, and I am grateful to colleagues on the other side of the table for bringing these matters up.
MR. BERNACCHI:-Mr. Chairman, my chief concern is the expres- sion "and other traffic matters". Does the department endorse that sentiment?
CHAIRMAN: The statement is that "Council has always taken a close interest in parking and other traffic matters." The Council has
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taken an interest in other traffic matters, to my certain knowledge, through the Traffic Advisory Committee on which it has a representa- tive. Many points have been raised through this Council and through its representative on the Traffic Advisory Committee which I think would justify this statement "other traffic matters". Certainly, I am very well aware of the fact that the Council would like to have more interest in traffic than it has enjoyed up to the present time.
MR. BERNACCHI :-Mr. Chairman, with respect, my words go to demonstrate that this is not in the least bit designed as a criticism of yourself, but if the department does adopt this last sentence, why did you reject a question asked by Mr. Hu about other traffic matters?
CHAIRMAN :--Sir, I am not aware of having rejected the question.
MR. HU:-Mr. Chairman, I think probably my friend Mr. BERNACCHI was not aware that my question was eventually allowed. (Laughter).
CHAIRMAN: --Perhaps I could explain the matter to Mr. BERNACCHI. The question that Mr. Hu first put to me in writing was, "Would you please put on the agenda a question in the following terms.
"Will you ask the representative of the Urban Council on the Traffic Advisory Committee to ask the following questions," and he framed a number of questions about Lung Cheung Road which you will find later on in this agenda. I wrote back and said more or less, "Well, why don't you ask him?" (Laughter).
"If you wish to ask him these questions, you are free to do so; there is no need for you to ask me to ask him in the Urban Council, where my answer would simply be yes." Mr. Hu then wrote back and said he wished publicity to be given to his question, so I said if he would be kind enough to get together with me, perhaps we could work out a question which would be suitable for asking in the Council. So a revised question was worked out and is now on the agenda, as far as I am aware. There was no refusal in the matter.
MR. BERNACCHI:--I thank you for your very clear explanation, and please accept my apologies for my question "Why did you reject”.
DR. BELL:-That may be a satisfactory answer to Mr. BERNACCHI, Mr. Chairman, but in the past, several years ago I asked and raised traffic questions here, and the answer which I received on every occasion was, “please refer them to the representative of the Traffic Advisory Committee," and I wonder now from your reply this afternoon to Mr. BERNACCHI, whether I can take it that traffic questions can now be asked in this Council. (Laughter).
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