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playground along Chatham Road, but I think we should also bear in mind the needs of the adult residents of Yau Ma Tei and Tsim Sha Tsui, and for that purpose the public square would come in most useful.
MR. HU: Mr. Chairman, I support the motion. I think in a crowded city like Hong Kong and Kowloon it is always desirable that we should have more open space and for this reason, I think, I support the motions put forward by Mr. SALES. As regards this particular motion, I support it because, as Mr. FORSGATE has said, there is no public square in Kowloon. To have a public square would make our city more dignified and I would also say that, with this type of square, people can gather together. I would further suggest, Mr. Chairman, that if we want a public square we would like to have it as large as possible. Not only would we have a big public square, but probably in future we could have a second City Hall in Kowloon. With this view, I would say that the motion proposed by Mr. SALES is very, very far-sighted indeed. With these words I support the motion.
MR. RAFEEK: In giving my full support to the motion proposed by Mr. SALES and seconded by Mr. FORSGATE, I would like to make a brief comment thereon. Has anyone stopped to ask himself and consider what the position will be in years to come if we continue to cover every available spare piece of land with the highest buildings the site will bear? Let us presume for the moment that we allowed this very large and central site to be developed by private enterprise, and then it is eventually covered by several dozen multi-storey apartment buildings. A time will eventually come when the political situation in neighbouring China will be such that a couple of million people here will feel no longer compelled to suffer the rigours of the over-crowded life in Hong Kong and they will leave here and return to the mainland. Can the devotees of developing this site to its limit in buildings indicate to me what will become of these buildings when they are nearly or totally empty of occupants? Will they care to suggest what sort of law and order will be kept in them and in their vicinities? Will they suggest how they will be able to protect these buildings and their few remaining tenants from illegal activities of every description? Moreover, multi-storey buildings, however necessary in the narrow conditions of our streets, have brought in a series of problems of dust, noise, and nervous strain. It is the bounden duty of an Urban administration to ensure that there is allowance in a city as much, or more so, in the centre as in the urban suburbs. With these few words I support the motion.
CHAIRMAN: I have great sympathy with squares. My children frequently call me one (Laughter).
MR. CHEONG-LEEN: Mr. Chairman, on a point of order. Are you referring to squares or public squares? (Laughter).
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CHAIRMAN: I have little to say on this motion. The outline plans will, in any case, be published in the very near future and any criticisms of it, or objections to it, will be heard by the Town Planning Board before the plan is submitted to the Governor in Council for a decision.
MR. SALES: May I exercise my right of reply? If you do not vote for this motion to-day, upon your return home your children will not only call you a square, they will say you are not with it (Laughter). I can well understand some of the reservations which Government may have about laying out public squares when one recalls the use to which a huge public square was put in Paris at the time of the French Revolution, before it was named the Place de la Concorde. I can well visualize too, that the day may well come when the tumbrils will roll down from Piper's Hill to the public square in Kowloon where lady hawkers will all be assembled waiting impassively and shouting "Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité" (Laughter). Sir, may I assure you that these thoughts are very far from my mind when I propose that we have a public square in Kowloon. Should the public square be put to such a sinister use, I assure you, Sir, that it will not be because of the lack of support which the officials will find from the unofficials who will be there, no doubt, on our respective soapboxes trying to persuade the lady hawkers to turn their attention elsewhere. I am grateful to my colleagues for their support. I need not dwell on the reasons for more open space, because these reasons have been advanced time and again by so many members of this Council. I repeat what so many of my colleagues have said that the opportunity should not be lost to make good the deficiency of the past. This opportunity which I feel Whitfield Barracks provides will not recur in Tsim Sha Tsui and we should certainly be mindful of the public interest and the interest of posterity when we decide on the final layout for that area. I suggest, Sir, that the question be now put.
CHAIRMAN: The motion before the Council has been proposed by Mr. SALES and seconded by Mr. FORSGATE.
The question was put.
The motion was carried, with 13 votes for, nil against and 5 abstentions.
ADJOURNMENT - 7.00 P.M.
CHAIRMAN: That concludes the business of this meeting. Council stands adjourned until Tuesday, 5th October, 1965.
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Page 153 of 382
Page 153 of 382
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playground along Chatham Road, but I think we should also bear in mind the needs of the adult residents of Yau Ma Tei and Tsim Sha Tsui, and for that purpose the public square would come in most useful.
MR. HU: Mr. Chairman, I support the motion. I think in a crowded city like Hong Kong and Kowloon it is always desirable that we should have more open space and for this reason, I think, I support the motions put forward by Mr. SALES. As regards this particular motion, I support it because, as Mr. FORSGATE has said, there is no public square in Kowloon. To have a public square would make our city more dignified and I would also say that, with this type of square, people can gather together. I would further suggest, Mr. Chairman, that if we want a public square we would like to have it as large as possible. Not only would we have a big public square, but probably in future we could have a second City Hall in Kowloon. With this view, I would say that the motion proposed by Mr. SALES is very, very far-sighted indeed. With these words I support the motion.
MR. RAFEEK: -In giving my full support to the motion proposed by Mr. SALES and seconded by Mr. ForsGATE, I would like to make a brief comment thereon. Has anyone stopped to ask himself and con- sider what the position will be in years to come if we continue to cover every available spare piece of land with the higest buildings the site will bear? Let us presume for the moment that we allowed this very large and central site to be developed by private enterprise, and then it is eventually covered by several dozen multi-storey apartment build- ings. A time will eventually come when the political situation in neighbouring China will be such that a couple of million people here will feel no longer compelled to suffer the rigours of the over-crowded life in Hong Kong and they will leave here and return to the mainland. Can the devotees of developing this site to its limit in buildings indicate to me what will become of these buildings when they are nearly or totally empty of occupants? Will they care to suggest what sort of law and order will be kept in them and in their vicinities? Will they sug- gest how they will be able to protect these buildings and their few remaining tenants from illegal activities of every discription? More- over, multi-storey buildings, however necessary in the narrow conditions of our streets, have brought in a series of problems of dust, noise, and nervous strain. It is the bounden duty of an Urban administration to ensure that there is allowance in a city as much, or more so, in the centre as in the urban suburbs. With these few words I support the motion.
CHAIRMAN:-I have great sympathy with squares. My children frequently call me one (Laughter).
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, on a point of order. Are your referring to squares or public squares? (Laughter).
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
285
CHAIRMAN: I have little to say on this motion. The outline plans will, in any case, be published in the very near future and any criticisms of it, or objections to it, will be heard by the Town Planning Board before the plan is submitted to the Governor in Council for a decision.
MR. SALES: May I exercise my right of reply? If you do not vote for this motion to-day, upon your return home your children will not only call you a square, they will say you are not with it (Laughter). I can well understand some of the reservations which Government may have about laying out public squares when one recalls the use to which a huge public square was put in Paris at the time of the French Revolu- tion, before it was named the Place de la Concorde. I can well visualize too, that the day may well come when the tumbrils will roll down from Piper's Hill to the public square in Kowloon where lady hawkers will all be assembled waiting impassively and shouting "Liberté. Egalité, Fraternité" (Laughter). Sir, may I assure you that these thoughts are very far from my mind when I propose that we have a public square in Kowloon. Should the public square be put to such a sinister use, I assure you, Sir, that it will not be because of the lack of support which the officials will find from the unofficials who will be there, no doubt, on our respective soapboxes trying to persuade the lady hawkers to turn their attention elsewhere. I am grateful to my col- leagues for their support. I need not dwell on the reasons for more open space, because these reasons have been advanced time and again by so many members of this Council. I repeat what so many of my colleagues have said that the opportunity should not be lost to make good the deficiency of the past. This opportunity which I feel Whit- field Barracks provides will not recur in Tsim Sha Tsui and we should certainly be mindful of the public interest and the interest of posterity when we decide on the final layout for that area. I suggest, Sir, that the question be now put.
CHAIRMAN: The motion before the Council has been proposed by Mr. SALES and seconded by Mr. FORSGATE.
The question was put.
The motion was carried, with 13 votes for, nil against and 5 abstentions.
ADJOURNMENT -7.00 P.M.
CHAIRMAN:-That concludes the business of this meeting. Council stands adjourned until Tuesday, 5th October, 1965.
PRINTED BY THE GOVERNMENT PRINTER, HONG KONG
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