HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
DR. LEE: Mr. Chairman, may I ask through you, whether the smell is due to bacteriological action?
CHAIRMAN: ---Sir, such smell as there is, and I am no scientist, is, I assume, due to rotting refuse.
DR. LEE:-Has not antiseptic been used in the past? If not, why not?
CHAIRMAN :-As far as I am aware, Sir, no antiseptic has been used to conceal the smell and the procedure adopted, on the best advice which we could obtain, is simply to seal the top of the dump with 9 inches of soil.
DR. LEE:-Mr. Chairman, may I ask the Deputy Director of Medical and Health Services, who is also our Vice-Chairman, whether he agrees or not that the smell frequently comes from bacteriological action.
ACTING DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF MEDICAL AND HEALTH SERVICES: I do, Sir, and I would point out that if bacteriological action were not allowed then the refuse would not decompose which is what we try to do with dumping. (Laughter)
MR. SALES: The question might be put as "When is Gin Drinkers Bay as a dumping area going to be closed altogether"?
MR. BERNACCHI:-I would call my friend, Mr. SALES' attention to Standing Orders. (Laughter)
MR. SALES: -May I ask, Sir, which Standing Order?
MR. BERNACCHI:-Supplementary Questions.
MR. SALES: --In what connexion, Sir? I am a great admirer of the senior unofficial member in his regard for Standing Orders when it applies to Appointed Members and his complete disregard for Standing Orders when they apply to himself (Laughter), so could he please explain to me in what way my supplementary question is contrary to Standing Orders. Or do you wish to refer this to the Standing Orders and Procedure Select Committee when the Chairman returns from his present holiday. (Laughter)
CHAIRMAN:-Sir, it is painful for me to see two senior members at loggerheads (Laughter). I always thought, Sir, that you simply ganged up on the official side (Laughter), but I am sure that Mr. BERNACCHI was referring to Standing Order 8(13) which says that a supplementary question must not be used to introduce matter not included in the original question. I am glad to answer your question. (Laughter)
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MR. SALES-Sir, before you answer my question may I draw your attention to the fact that the original question as put by Dr. LEE includes the reference to Gin Drinkers Refuse Dump. Question No. 8-unless we are talking about different questions. (Laughter)
CHAIRMAN :-Well, in elucidation, Sir, may I say that it is hoped that the first Kowloon Incinerator at Lai Chi Kok will be in operation in 1967 but it will not be able to handle all the refuse from Kowloon and the excess will therefore continue to go into Gin Drinkers Bay until the second Incinerator planned for Kowloon in 1969 or thereabouts, is in operation. Perhaps my friend the Director of Public Works will bear me out on that.
DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS:-I can't say any more than you, Sir. (Laughter)
MR. SALES: Mr. Chairman, may I thank you for the reply which you gave me and that is the one I want, but I would like to pursue this matter of Standing Orders on a point of order. In reply to your question, (don't you admit, Sir?) my supplementary question was entirely within Standing Orders because it is germane to the main question, No. 8. So would you and Mr. BERNACCHI appear before the Standing Orders Select Committee next time it meets and justify your allegations. (Laughter)
CHAIRMAN: -Sir, you have called me in question so often on Standing Orders that I am very doubtful whether my interpretations are ever correct. I feel, Sir, that your supplementary could be admitted in this case and could follow from the original question.
MR. SALES-Thank you very much indeed. May my learned friend across the table learn from your reply as well, Sir. (Laughter)
(9) DR. P. F. Woo asked the following question :-
In view of the difficulty we have experienced in recruiting our library staff, I would like to enquire (1) whether the Chairman of the Urban Council has placed the matter before the Salaries Commission, and (2) whether the attention of the Salaries Commission has been drawn to the difference in the salary scale between our Library Adviser and the librarians of the local universities?
THE CHAIRMAN replied as follows:-
The answer to the first part of the question is that recruitment of staff for the Library was in train before the Salaries Commission started its work and it was not considered
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HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
DR. LEE: Mr. Chairman, may I ask through you, whether the smell is due to bacteriological action?
CHAIRMAN: ---Sir, such smell as there is, and I am no scientist, is, I assume, due to rotting refuse.
DR. LEE:-Has not antiseptic been used in the past? If not, why not?
CHAIRMAN :-As far as I am aware, Sir, no antiseptic has been used to conceal the smell and the procedure adopted, on the best advice which we could obtain, is simply to seal the top of the dump with 9 inches of soil.
DR. LEE:-Mr. Chairman, may I ask the Deputy Director of Medical and Health Services, who is also our Vice-Chairman, whether he agrees or not that the smell frequently comes from bacteriological action.
ACTING DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF MEDICAL AND HEALTH SERVICES: I do, Sir, and I would point out that if bacteriological action were not allowed then the refuse would not decompose which is what we try to do with dumping. (Laughter)
MR. SALES: The question might be put as "When is Gin Drinkers Bay as a dumping area going to be closed altogether"?
MR. BERNACCHI:-I would call my friend, Mr. SALES' attention to Standing Orders. (Laughter)
MR. SALES: -May I ask, Sir, which Standing Order?
MR. BERNACCHI:-Supplementary Questions.
MR. SALES: --In what connexion, Sir? I am a great admirer of the senior unofficial member in his regard for Standing Orders when it applies to Appointed Members and his complete disregard for Standing Orders when they apply to himself (Laughter), so could he please explain to me in what way my supplementary question is contrary to Standing Orders. Or do you wish to refer this to the Standing Orders and Procedure Select Committee when the Chairman returns from his present holiday. (Laughter)
CHAIRMAN:-Sir, it is painful for me to see two senior members at loggerheads (Laughter). I always thought, Sir, that you simply ganged up on the official side (Laughter), but I am sure that Mr. BERNACCHI was referring to Standing Order 8(13) which says that a supplementary ques- tion must not be used to introduce matter not included in the original question. I am glad to answer your question. (Laughter)
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
219
MR. SALES-Sir, before you answer my question may I draw your attention to the fact that the original question as put by Dr. LEE includes the reference to Gin Drinkers Refuse Dump. Question No. 8-unless we are talking about different questions. (Laughter)
CHAIRMAN :-Well, in elucidation, Sir, may I say that it is hoped that the first Kowloon Incinerator at Lai Chi Kok will be in operation in 1967 but it will not be able to handle all the refuse from Kowloon and the excess will therefore continue to go into Gin Drinkers Bay until the second Incinerator planned for Kowloon in 1969 or thereabouts, is in operation. Perhaps my friend the Director of Public Works will bear me out on that.
DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS:-I can't say any more than you, Sir. (Laughter)
MR. SALES: Mr. Chairman, may I thank you for the reply which you gave me and that is the one I want, but I would like to pursue this matter of Standing Orders on a point of order. In reply to your question, (don't you admit, Sir?) my supplementary question was entirely within Standing Orders because it is germane to the main question, No. 8. So would you and Mr. BERNACCHI appear before the Standing Orders Select Committee next time it meets and justify your allegations. (Laughter)
CHAIRMAN: -Sir, you have called me in question so often on Standing Orders that I am very doubtful whether my interpretations are ever correct. I feel, Sir, that your supplementary could be admitted in this case and could follow from the original question.
MR. SALES-Thank you very much indeed. May my learned friend across the table learn from your reply as well, Sir. (Laughter)
(9) DR. P. F. Woo asked the following question :-
In view of the difficulty we have experienced in recruiting our library staff, I would like to enquire (1) whether the Chair- man of the Urban Council has placed the matter before the Salaries Commission, and (2) whether the attention of the Salaries Commission has been drawn to the difference in the salary scale between our Library Adviser and the librarians of the local universities?
THE CHAIRMAN replied as follows:-
The answer to the first part of the question is that recruitment of staff for the Library was in train before the Salaries Commission started its work and it was not considered
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