1964 — Page 49

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DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF MEDICAL AND HEALTH SERVICES:-I think, Sir, that repeated warnings about the danger of swimming there have been given and that the extent of contamination varies from time to time. It is quite near to a large infectious diseases hospital. I do not think we are in a position to forbid anybody to swim there.

MR. SALES: -Mr. Chairman, the pollution arises largely from cultivation of nearby land, and on previous occasions, through you, Mr. Chairman, I have extended an invitation to my friend and colleague to attend the meetings of my Select Committee when this and other problems are discussed at length. If the good member feels that he can add something to the deliberations of that Committee, which perhaps might have escaped the other Urban Councillors, I would certainly be happy to extend a standing invitation to Mr. CHEONG-LEEN, through you.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, in clarification, may I remind the Chairman of the Urban Amenities Select Committee that I was a member of that Select Committee two years ago when the same subject was in continuous debate in Select Committee. What we want now is some definite action to be taken. If, as stated in the Press a few days ago, this beach is so highly contaminated that members of the public should not swim there, then either Government should take steps to close the beach for swimming purposes or it should not have made such a statement. I would like you, Sir, to please first of all take up the matter again with the Select Committee concerned, and I would be happy to attend the meeting when it is discussed, to see what action can be taken to close the beach for swimming purposes this year. I would like you, before you do that, Mr. Chairman, to clarify this point: Is the Urban Council in a position to take such action and, if not, which department in Government is in a position to make a decision and take appropriate action?

MR. SALES: -Mr. Chairman, I fear I must disagree entirely with Mr. CHEONG-LEEN, on behalf of my Select Committee. This matter has been very carefully studied and all expert advice taken on it and the Select Committee has urged Government to provide alternative facilities. The water is not more polluted there than it is in other parts of the harbour, where children in any case swim, which unhappily and unfortunately occurs. So the Select Committee cannot find good cause for the closing of that beach while depriving hundreds, if not thousands, of people every Sunday from the use of the neighbourhood. If Mr. CHEONG-LEEN is presumptuous enough to think that his attendance at my Select Committee would alter the decision of the Select Committee concerned, I would gladly invite him again.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN: --Mr. Chairman, may I ask Mr. SALES, through you, if the Select Committee and its Chairman in particular, consider

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that the beach is not highly contaminated, then why did they advise the public that they should not swim there?

MR. SALES: -Mr. Chairman, there is a wrong use of terminology. The beach is not contaminated at all, the water is sometimes polluted, and the Urban Amenities Select Committee gets reports from Government about the state and condition of the water at all beaches in the Colony and variations occur frequently. Variation even occurs in respect of the water in private swimming pools.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, may I point out to Mr. Sales, through you, that the public is somewhat confused about the position at this beach. May I also remind him that swimming in the harbour, say, from Blake Pier, is not from a public beach.

MR. SALES: We are not discussing swimming from Blake Pier. I am aware that Blake Pier is not a gazetted beach, Mr. Chairman. (Laughter).

MR. BERNACCHI:-Mr. Chairman, may I ask Mr. SALES whether his recent explanation amounts to this: That Lai Chi Kok beach can now be considered as part of the harbour of Hong Kong and as polluted as the harbour of Hong Kong is, and therefore, whilst the public are not forbidden to swim at that beach, they are advised not to swim there.

MR. SALES: -Mr. Chairman, what Mr. BERNACCHI has said is substantially correct. Whether Lai Chi Kok beach is part of the harbour, it is not for me to say, but it is a gazetted beach at the present time, so that until it is removed from that classification the Urban Council has an obligation to provide the minimum of services to the public, and we are doing so and warning the public at the same time in the same way as the public is generally warned against swimming anywhere in the harbour.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN: --Mr. Chairman, would you clarify the point about the closure of the beach? Is it the Urban Council which can do so? If not, which department in Government is authorized to close that beach?

CHAIRMAN: -Sir, as long as it is a gazetted beach I do not think it can be closed.

MR. SALES: -Mr. Chairman, I am not part of Government and I do not aspire to be part of Government. I am simply an Unofficial member and all the information I have given to Members of this Council, through you, is because I am the Chairman of a particular Select Committee, the composition of which includes members of Mr. CHEONG-LEEN's own Party, who themselves took part in the decision made by that Select Committee.

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