1964 — Page 41

Urban Council Proceedings 市政局議事錄 All AI Reviewed

Page 41 of 312

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

are not included in the responsibilities of the Council—for example, the provision of hospitals and clinics, arrangements for mass inoculations, and education.

The Council, as the competent authority within the urban areas for Parts IV and V of the Resettlement Ordinance, is responsible for the management of resettlement estates and cottage areas and is concerned with the letting of premises within these estates and areas for use as schools, clinics, etc., but it does not follow from this that its functions in such areas embrace responsibilities with which it is not concerned elsewhere. It has no responsibility for education and medical services in resettlement estates, any more than it has for policing these estates or for providing a fire service.

It is, however, recognized as appropriate that, in managing the resettlement estates and areas in its charge, the Council should take an interest in the general health and well-being of the residents, even in aspects of these matters where it has no statutory responsibility, and any suggestions regarding them which are made by Members are forwarded to and given careful attention by the authorities concerned.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:- Mr. Chairman, in the last paragraph of your reply, in order that I can fully understand your intention, would you care to explain what sort of an interest you yourself have in the general health and well-being of the residents in resettlement areas and estates? Is it a passing interest or a deep, abiding interest? (Laughter).

CHAIRMAN:- Sir, I do not consider that question to be strictly in order.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:- Mr. Chairman, would you care to define the type of interest which Members of this Council should take in the general health and well-being of the residents?

CHAIRMAN:- Well, Sir, I will give you two examples, if I may. One, which came up recently, concerns the question of the adequacy of transport services to resettlement estates in outlying areas. I think it would be reasonable for the Council, when concerned with the management of a resettlement estate in an outlying district, to express some opinion on the availability of adequate transport.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:- Mr. Chairman, are you referring to Urban Council bus transport or to public transport?

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

CHAIRMAN:- Transport. Again, I think it would be reasonable for the Council to express an opinion on the adequacy of schools in resettlement areas. It would wish to assure itself, I am certain, that an adequate number of schools is provided.

MR. BERNACCHI: Mr. Chairman, surely our responsibility under Parts IV and V of the Resettlement Ordinance covers indeed the provision of an adequate number of schools by setting aside certain parts of the resettlement estates for letting as schools?

MR. SALES:- Mr. Chairman, is it not a fact that this Council has also asked to be made the competent authority for the other parts of the Resettlement Ordinance, so that the Commissioner would be exercising his authority under the supervision and responsibility of this Council?

COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:- On Mr. SALES' question, I think what he has said is correct. On Mr. BERNACCHI's, may I have a moment to look up my Ordinance.

May I have Mr. BERNACCHI's supplementary question again, please?

MR. BERNACCHI:- Perhaps if the Commissioner is understandably unable to answer it today, it can be answered at a future date. The supplementary is that, surely, under Parts IV and V of the Resettlement Ordinance, the Council is responsible for ensuring adequate educational facilities by setting aside the necessary space to be let as schools?

MR. SALES:- Mr. Chairman, if you are prepared to entertain a final supplementary question from me, surely the concern which my friend and colleague has evinced on resettlement areas would be better demonstrated if he were to assume the responsibilities of a visiting member for some estates, which I am told he is not?

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:- Mr. Chairman, to explain the situation to Mr. SALES; I have decided not to be a visiting member of any particular estate, because I prefer to be a visiting member for all the estates as and when the occasion arises. (Laughter and cries of Oh, Oh!) Mr. Chairman, with your permission, I still would like to seek clarification on one of the illustrations that you have raised, that is, in regard to education. Do you mean to say, Mr. Chairman, that this Council should be interested in the adequate provision of educational facilities for all children in resettlement estates and areas?

COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:- Mr. Chairman, I would not have thought so at all, but in response to Mr. BERNACCHI's previous supplementary question, I certainly would like to look into that and give him an answer in writing in the near future.

MR. SALES: Mr. Chairman, would it not satisfy my friend and colleague, as it certainly will satisfy me, if this Council were to ask that

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Page 41 of 312 60 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL are not included in the responsibilities of the Council—for example, the provision of hospitals and clinics, arrangements for mass inoculations, and education. The Council, as the competent authority within the urban areas for Parts IV and V of the Resettlement Ordinance, is responsible for the management of resettlement estates and cottage areas and is concerned with the letting of premises within these estates and areas for use as schools, clinics, etc., but it does not follow from this that its functions in such areas embrace responsibilities with which it is not concerned elsewhere. It has no responsibility for education and medical services in resettlement estates, any more than it has for policing these estates or for providing a fire service. It is, however, recognized as appropriate that, in managing the resettlement estates and areas in its charge, the Council should take an interest in the general health and well-being of the residents, even in aspects of these matters where it has no statutory responsibility, and any suggestions regarding them which are made by Members are forwarded to and given careful attention by the authorities concerned. MR. CHEONG-LEEN:- Mr. Chairman, in the last paragraph of your reply, in order that I can fully understand your intention, would you care to explain what sort of an interest you yourself have in the general health and well-being of the residents in resettlement areas and estates? Is it a passing interest or a deep, abiding interest? (Laughter). CHAIRMAN:- Sir, I do not consider that question to be strictly in order. MR. CHEONG-LEEN:- Mr. Chairman, would you care to define the type of interest which Members of this Council should take in the general health and well-being of the residents? CHAIRMAN:- Well, Sir, I will give you two examples, if I may. One, which came up recently, concerns the question of the adequacy of transport services to resettlement estates in outlying areas. I think it would be reasonable for the Council, when concerned with the management of a resettlement estate in an outlying district, to express some opinion on the availability of adequate transport. MR. CHEONG-LEEN:- Mr. Chairman, are you referring to Urban Council bus transport or to public transport? HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL 61 CHAIRMAN:- Transport. Again, I think it would be reasonable for the Council to express an opinion on the adequacy of schools in resettlement areas. It would wish to assure itself, I am certain, that an adequate number of schools is provided. MR. BERNACCHI: Mr. Chairman, surely our responsibility under Parts IV and V of the Resettlement Ordinance covers indeed the provision of an adequate number of schools by setting aside certain parts of the resettlement estates for letting as schools? MR. SALES:- Mr. Chairman, is it not a fact that this Council has also asked to be made the competent authority for the other parts of the Resettlement Ordinance, so that the Commissioner would be exercising his authority under the supervision and responsibility of this Council? COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:- On Mr. SALES' question, I think what he has said is correct. On Mr. BERNACCHI's, may I have a moment to look up my Ordinance. May I have Mr. BERNACCHI's supplementary question again, please? MR. BERNACCHI:- Perhaps if the Commissioner is understandably unable to answer it today, it can be answered at a future date. The supplementary is that, surely, under Parts IV and V of the Resettlement Ordinance, the Council is responsible for ensuring adequate educational facilities by setting aside the necessary space to be let as schools? MR. SALES:- Mr. Chairman, if you are prepared to entertain a final supplementary question from me, surely the concern which my friend and colleague has evinced on resettlement areas would be better demonstrated if he were to assume the responsibilities of a visiting member for some estates, which I am told he is not? MR. CHEONG-LEEN:- Mr. Chairman, to explain the situation to Mr. SALES; I have decided not to be a visiting member of any particular estate, because I prefer to be a visiting member for all the estates as and when the occasion arises. (Laughter and cries of Oh, Oh!) Mr. Chairman, with your permission, I still would like to seek clarification on one of the illustrations that you have raised, that is, in regard to education. Do you mean to say, Mr. Chairman, that this Council should be interested in the adequate provision of educational facilities for all children in resettlement estates and areas? COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:- Mr. Chairman, I would not have thought so at all, but in response to Mr. BERNACCHI's previous supplementary question, I certainly would like to look into that and give him an answer in writing in the near future. MR. SALES: Mr. Chairman, would it not satisfy my friend and colleague, as it certainly will satisfy me, if this Council were to ask that Page 41 of 312

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Page 41 of 312 60 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL are not included in the responsibilities of the Council-for example, the provision of hospitals and clinics, arrange- ments for mass inoculations, and education. The Council, as the competent authority within the urban areas for Parts IV and V of the Resettlement Ordinance, is re- sponsible for the management of resettlement estates and cottage areas and is concerned with the letting of premises within these estates and areas for use as schools, clinics, etc., but it does not follow from this that its functions in such areas embrace responsibilities with which it is not concerned elsewhere. It has no responsibility for educa- tion and medical services in resettlement estates, any more than it has for policing these estates or for providing a fire service. It is however, recognized as appropriate that, in managing the resettlement estates and areas in its charge, the Council should take an interest in the general health and well-being of the residents, even in aspects of these matters where it has no statutory responsibility, and any suggestions regard- ing them which are made by Members are forwarded to and given careful attention by the authorities concerned. MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, in the last paragraph of your reply, in order that I can fully understand your intention, would you care to explain what sort of an interest you yourself have in the general health and well-being of the residents in resettlement areas and estates? Is it a passing interest or a deep, abiding interest? (Laughter). CHAIRMAN: --Sir, I do not consider that question to be strictly in order. MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, would you care to define the type of interest which Members of this Council should take in the general health and well-being of the residents? CHAIRMAN: -Well, Sir, I will give you two examples, if I may. One, which came up recently, concerns the question of the adequacy of transport services to resettlement estates in outlying areas. I think it would be reasonable for the Council, when concerned with the manage- ment of a resettlement estate in an outlying district, to express some opinion on the availability of adequate transport. MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, are you referring to Urban Council bus transport or to public transport? HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL 61 CHAIRMAN: ---Transport. Again, I think it would be reasonable for the Council to express an opinion on the adequacy of schools in resettle- ment areas. It would wish to assure itself, I am certain, that an adequate number of schools is provided. MR. BERNACCHI: Mr. Chairman, surely our responsibility under Parts IV and V of the Resettlement Ordinance covers indeed the pro- vision of an adequate number of schools by setting aside certain parts of the resettlement estates for letting as schools? MR. SALES: -Mr. Chairman, is it not a fact that this Council has also asked to be made the competent authority for the other parts of the Resettlement Ordinance, so that the Commissioner would be exercising his authority under the supervision and responsibility of this Council? COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:- On Mr. SALES' question, I think what he has said is correct. On Mr. BERNACCHI's, may I have a moment to look up my Ordinance . May I have Mr. BERNACCHI'S supplementary question again, please? MR. BERNACCHI:-Perhaps if the Commissioner is understandably unable to answer it to-day, it can be answered at a future date. The supplementary is that, surely, under Parts IV and V of the Resettlement Ordinance, the Council is responsible for ensuring adequate educational facilities by setting aside the necessary space to be let as schools? MR. SALES: -Mr. Chairman, if you are prepared to entertain a final supplementary question from me, surely the concern which my friend and colleague has evinced on resettlement areas would be better demon- strated if he were to assume the responsibilities of a visiting member for some estates, which I am told he is not? MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, to explain the situation to Mr. SALES; I have decided not to be a visiting member of any particular estate, because I prefer to be a visiting member for all the estates as and when the occasion arises. (Laughter and cries of Oh, Oh!) Mr. Chairman, with your permission, I still would like to seek clarification on one of the illustrations that you have raised, that is, in regard to education. Do you mean to say, Mr. Chairman, that this Council should be interested in the adequate provision of educational facilities for all children in resettlement estates and areas? COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-Mr. Chairman, I would not have thought so at all, but in response to Mr. BERNACCHI's previous supplementary question, I certainly would like to look into that and give him an answer in writing in the near future. MR. SALES: Mr. Chairman, would it not satisfy my friend and colleague, as it certainly will satisfy me, if this Council were to ask that

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Page 41 of 312

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

are not included in the responsibilities of the Council-for example, the provision of hospitals and clinics, arrange- ments for mass inoculations, and education.

The Council, as the competent authority within the urban areas for Parts IV and V of the Resettlement Ordinance, is re- sponsible for the management of resettlement estates and cottage areas and is concerned with the letting of premises within these estates and areas for use as schools, clinics, etc., but it does not follow from this that its functions in such areas embrace responsibilities with which it is not concerned elsewhere. It has no responsibility for educa- tion and medical services in resettlement estates, any more than it has for policing these estates or for providing a fire service.

It is however, recognized as appropriate that, in managing the resettlement estates and areas in its charge, the Council should take an interest in the general health and well-being of the residents, even in aspects of these matters where it has no statutory responsibility, and any suggestions regard- ing them which are made by Members are forwarded to and given careful attention by the authorities concerned.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, in the last paragraph of your reply, in order that I can fully understand your intention, would you care to explain what sort of an interest you yourself have in the general health and well-being of the residents in resettlement areas and estates? Is it a passing interest or a deep, abiding interest? (Laughter).

CHAIRMAN: --Sir, I do not consider that question to be strictly in

order.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, would you care to define the type of interest which Members of this Council should take in the general health and well-being of the residents?

CHAIRMAN: -Well, Sir, I will give you two examples, if I may. One, which came up recently, concerns the question of the adequacy of transport services to resettlement estates in outlying areas. I think it would be reasonable for the Council, when concerned with the manage- ment of a resettlement estate in an outlying district, to express some opinion on the availability of adequate transport.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, are you referring to Urban Council bus transport or to public transport?

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

CHAIRMAN: ---Transport. Again, I think it would be reasonable for the Council to express an opinion on the adequacy of schools in resettle- ment areas. It would wish to assure itself, I am certain, that an adequate number of schools is provided.

MR. BERNACCHI: Mr. Chairman, surely our responsibility under Parts IV and V of the Resettlement Ordinance covers indeed the pro- vision of an adequate number of schools by setting aside certain parts of the resettlement estates for letting as schools?

MR. SALES: -Mr. Chairman, is it not a fact that this Council has also asked to be made the competent authority for the other parts of the Resettlement Ordinance, so that the Commissioner would be exercising his authority under the supervision and responsibility of this Council?

COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:- On Mr. SALES' question, I think what he has said is correct. On Mr. BERNACCHI's, may I have a moment to look up my Ordinance .

May I have Mr. BERNACCHI'S supplementary question again, please?

MR. BERNACCHI:-Perhaps if the Commissioner is understandably unable to answer it to-day, it can be answered at a future date. The supplementary is that, surely, under Parts IV and V of the Resettlement Ordinance, the Council is responsible for ensuring adequate educational facilities by setting aside the necessary space to be let as schools?

MR. SALES: -Mr. Chairman, if you are prepared to entertain a final supplementary question from me, surely the concern which my friend and colleague has evinced on resettlement areas would be better demon- strated if he were to assume the responsibilities of a visiting member for some estates, which I am told he is not?

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, to explain the situation to Mr. SALES; I have decided not to be a visiting member of any particular estate, because I prefer to be a visiting member for all the estates as and when the occasion arises. (Laughter and cries of Oh, Oh!) Mr. Chairman, with your permission, I still would like to seek clarification on one of the illustrations that you have raised, that is, in regard to education. Do you mean to say, Mr. Chairman, that this Council should be interested in the adequate provision of educational facilities for all children in resettlement estates and areas?

COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-Mr. Chairman, I would not have thought so at all, but in response to Mr. BERNACCHI's previous supplementary question, I certainly would like to look into that and give him an answer in writing in the near future.

MR. SALES: Mr. Chairman, would it not satisfy my friend and colleague, as it certainly will satisfy me, if this Council were to ask that

1964 — Page 41

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