1964 — Page 294

Urban Council Proceedings 市政局議事錄 All AI Reviewed

Page 294 of 312

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:- Mr. Chairman, could the Commissioner say approximately how many people are still on this waiting list?

COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:- The number is, I think, over 1,300.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:- And originally were they all promised shops?

COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:- That is so.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN: Is it not a fact, Mr. Chairman, that many of these cultivators and pigbreeders have been waiting for many years, and even in some cases for as long as 5 years or over?

COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:- A small proportion, I think, has been waiting for 5 years or over, but mostly one or two years, or less.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:- Nevertheless, does the Commissioner realize that most of these people, as Mrs. ELLIOTT has already pointed out, have been suffering quite a bit of hardship as a result of this long waiting?

COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:- I do indeed, Sir.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:- Would the Commissioner be good enough to draw these points to the attention of Government?

COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:- Certainly, Sir.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:- Thank you.

(3) MRS. E. ELLIOTT asked the following question:-

In view of His Excellency the Governor's statements concerning the creation, last September, of an Ombudsman-type secretariat, charged with necessary, but so far insufficient, liaison between Government and the people, will the Chairman endeavour to ensure proper attention to questions of public importance raised by Urban Councillors concerning matters supposedly outside their own sphere of responsibility, by the Authority vested by His Excellency the Governor with Ombudsman-type functions?

THE CHAIRMAN replied as follows:-

In his Budget Address on 25th February, 1965 His Excellency the Governor mentioned the task of Members of the Legislative Council in keeping in touch with public opinion and said "To assist them in this duty, a small secretariat, headed by a senior ex-officer of the Hong Kong Government, has now been provided in an attempt to adapt the essence of the Ombudsman system, the introduction of which has from time to time been advocated here, to our own particular needs. There is, I think, a great deal of misunderstanding current about what an Ombudsman is. He is not a sort of super inspector-general, charged with the power to criticize generally the whole conduct of a Government's affairs. Nor does he comment officially on the general policies of his Government as reflected in the laws passed by the Legislature. That is solely the prerogative of the Legislature itself.

"An Ombudsman's task varies in different countries, but generally speaking he advises members of the Legislature on the manner in which executive powers conferred by the Legislature are carried out by the executive; and calls their attention confidentially to any ways in which current legislation works badly in detail. He is appointed because it is thought difficult for large legislatures to oversee such matters collectively. Here, this comparatively small Council can I think oversee these matters collectively, provided they have the necessary facilities to investigate particular complaints in detail. This I hope has now been provided; but if anything else is needed to assist Honourable Members, consideration will certainly be given to arranging it."

I have no doubt that now that the necessary facilities have been provided, any matters outside the scope of the Urban Council, which Members consider to be of public importance, can be raised direct with the secretary of 'UMELCO', that is, the Office of the Unofficial Members of the Executive and Legislative Councils, 706 Union House, Hong Kong,

MR. BERNACCHI:- Mr. Chairman, in His Excellency's speech that you have rendered in your answer, he says that an Ombudsman is usually a person who advises members of the Legislature confidentially as to the manner in which the laws they pass are being administered. Are you in favour therefore of a member of this Council being appointed Ombudsman to advise the Legislature confidentially of the way in which the laws are being carried out?

CHAIRMAN:- Sir, I must point out that you are asking of me an expression of personal opinion which I cannot give to you, I feel, Sir, that this is a matter on which we have to seek the collective guidance of this Council and to abide by the majority opinion.

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Page 294 of 312 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL MR. CHEONG-LEEN:- Mr. Chairman, could the Commissioner say approximately how many people are still on this waiting list? COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:- The number is, I think, over 1,300. MR. CHEONG-LEEN:- And originally were they all promised shops? COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:- That is so. MR. CHEONG-LEEN: Is it not a fact, Mr. Chairman, that many of these cultivators and pigbreeders have been waiting for many years, and even in some cases for as long as 5 years or over? COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:- A small proportion, I think, has been waiting for 5 years or over, but mostly one or two years, or less. MR. CHEONG-LEEN:- Nevertheless, does the Commissioner realize that most of these people, as Mrs. ELLIOTT has already pointed out, have been suffering quite a bit of hardship as a result of this long waiting? COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:- I do indeed, Sir. MR. CHEONG-LEEN:- Would the Commissioner be good enough to draw these points to the attention of Government? COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:- Certainly, Sir. MR. CHEONG-LEEN:- Thank you. (3) MRS. E. ELLIOTT asked the following question:- In view of His Excellency the Governor's statements concerning the creation, last September, of an Ombudsman-type secretariat, charged with necessary, but so far insufficient, liaison between Government and the people, will the Chairman endeavour to ensure proper attention to questions of public importance raised by Urban Councillors concerning matters supposedly outside their own sphere of responsibility, by the Authority vested by His Excellency the Governor with Ombudsman-type functions? THE CHAIRMAN replied as follows:- In his Budget Address on 25th February, 1965 His Excellency the Governor mentioned the task of Members of the Legislative Council in keeping in touch with public opinion and said "To assist them in this duty, a small secretariat, headed by a senior ex-officer of the Hong Kong Government, has now been provided in an attempt to adapt the essence of the Ombudsman system, the introduction of which has from time to time been advocated here, to our own particular needs. There is, I think, a great deal of misunderstanding current about what an Ombudsman is. He is not a sort of super inspector-general, charged with the power to criticize generally the whole conduct of a Government's affairs. Nor does he comment officially on the general policies of his Government as reflected in the laws passed by the Legislature. That is solely the prerogative of the Legislature itself. "An Ombudsman's task varies in different countries, but generally speaking he advises members of the Legislature on the manner in which executive powers conferred by the Legislature are carried out by the executive; and calls their attention confidentially to any ways in which current legislation works badly in detail. He is appointed because it is thought difficult for large legislatures to oversee such matters collectively. Here, this comparatively small Council can I think oversee these matters collectively, provided they have the necessary facilities to investigate particular complaints in detail. This I hope has now been provided; but if anything else is needed to assist Honourable Members, consideration will certainly be given to arranging it." I have no doubt that now that the necessary facilities have been provided, any matters outside the scope of the Urban Council, which Members consider to be of public importance, can be raised direct with the secretary of 'UMELCO', that is, the Office of the Unofficial Members of the Executive and Legislative Councils, 706 Union House, Hong Kong, MR. BERNACCHI:- Mr. Chairman, in His Excellency's speech that you have rendered in your answer, he says that an Ombudsman is usually a person who advises members of the Legislature confidentially as to the manner in which the laws they pass are being administered. Are you in favour therefore of a member of this Council being appointed Ombudsman to advise the Legislature confidentially of the way in which the laws are being carried out? CHAIRMAN:- Sir, I must point out that you are asking of me an expression of personal opinion which I cannot give to you, I feel, Sir, that this is a matter on which we have to seek the collective guidance of this Council and to abide by the majority opinion. Page 294 of 312 562 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL 563

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312 Page 294 of 312 562 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman. could the Commissioner say approximately how many people are still on this waiting list? COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT: -The number is, I think, over 1,300. MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-And originally were they all promised shops? COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-That is so. MR. CHEONG-LEEN: Is it not a fact, Mr. Chairman, that many of these cultivators and pigbreeders have been waiting for many years, and even in some cases for as long as 5 years or over? COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:---A small proportion, I think, has been waiting for 5 years or over, but mostly one or two years, or less. MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Nevertheless, does the Commissioner realize that most of these people, as Mrs. ELLIOTT has already pointed out, have been suffering quite a bit of hardship as a result of this long waiting? COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT: --I do indeed, Sir. MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Would the Commissioner be good enough to draw these points to the attention of Government? COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-Certainly, Sir. MR. CHEONG-LEEN: --Thank you. (3) MRS. E. ELLIOTT asked the following question:- In view of His Excellency the Governor's statements concern- ing the creation, last September, of an Ombudsman-type secretariat, charged with necessary, but so far insufficient, liaison between Government and the people, will the Chair- man endeavour to ensure proper attention to questions of public importance raised by Urban Councillors concerning matters supposedly outside their own sphere of responsi- bility, by the Authority vested by His Excellency the Governor with Ombudsman-type functions? THE CHAIRMAN replied as follows:- In his Budget Address on 25th February, 1965 His Excellency the Governor mentioned the task of Members of the Legislative Council in keeping in touch with public opinion and said "To assist them in this duty, a small HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL 563 secretariat, headed by a senior ex-officer of the Hong Kong Government, has now been provided in an attempt to adapt the essence of the Ombudsman system, the introduc- tion of which has from time to time been advocated here, to our own particular needs. There is, I think, a great deal of misunderstanding current about what an Ombuds- man is. He is not a sort of super inspector-general, charged with the power to criticize generally the whole conduct of a Government's affairs. Nor does he comment officially on the general policies of his Government as reflected in the laws passed by the Legislature. That is solely the prerogative of the Legislature itself. "An Ombudsman's task varies in different countries, but generally speaking he advises members of the Legislature on the manner in which executive powers conferred by the Legislature are carried out by the executive; and calls their attention confidentially to any ways in which current legislation works badly in detail. He is appointed because it is thought difficult for large legislatures to oversee such matters collectively. Here, this comparatively small Council can I think oversee these matters collectively, provided they have the necessary facilities to investigate particular complaints in detail. This I hope has now been provided; but if anything else is needed to assist Honour- able Members, consideration will certainly be given to arranging it." I have no doubt that now that the necessary facilities have been provided, any matters outside the scope of the Urban Council, which Members consider to be of public impor- tance, can be raised direct with the secretary of ‘UMELCO', that is, the Office of the Unofficial Members of the Execu- tive and Legislative Councils, 706 Union House, Hong Kong, MR. BERNACCHI :-Mr. Chairman, in His Excellency's speech that you have rendered in your answer, he says that an Ombudsman is usually a person who advises members of the Legislature confidentially as to the manner in which the laws they pass are being administered. Are you in favour therefore of a member of this Council being appointed Ombudsman to advise the Legislature confidentially of the way in which the laws are being carried out? CHAIRMAN:-Sir, I must point out that you are asking of me an expression of personal opinion which I cannot give to you, I feel, Sir, that this is a matter on which we have to seek the collective guidance of this Council and to abide by the majority opinion.

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312

Page 294 of 312

562

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman. could the Commissioner say approximately how many people are still on this waiting list?

COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT: -The number is, I think, over

1,300.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-And originally were they all promised shops?

COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-That is so.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN: Is it not a fact, Mr. Chairman, that many of these cultivators and pigbreeders have been waiting for many years, and even in some cases for as long as 5 years or over?

COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:---A small proportion, I think, has been waiting for 5 years or over, but mostly one or two years, or less.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Nevertheless, does the Commissioner realize that most of these people, as Mrs. ELLIOTT has already pointed out, have been suffering quite a bit of hardship as a result of this long waiting?

COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT: --I do indeed, Sir.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Would the Commissioner be good enough to draw these points to the attention of Government?

COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-Certainly, Sir.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN: --Thank you.

(3) MRS. E. ELLIOTT asked the following question:-

In view of His Excellency the Governor's statements concern- ing the creation, last September, of an Ombudsman-type secretariat, charged with necessary, but so far insufficient, liaison between Government and the people, will the Chair- man endeavour to ensure proper attention to questions of public importance raised by Urban Councillors concerning matters supposedly outside their own sphere of responsi- bility, by the Authority vested by His Excellency the Governor with Ombudsman-type functions?

THE CHAIRMAN replied as follows:-

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

563

secretariat, headed by a senior ex-officer of the Hong Kong Government, has now been provided in an attempt to adapt the essence of the Ombudsman system, the introduc- tion of which has from time to time been advocated here, to our own particular needs. There is, I think, a great deal of misunderstanding current about what an Ombuds- man is. He is not a sort of super inspector-general, charged with the power to criticize generally the whole conduct of a Government's affairs. Nor does he comment officially on the general policies of his Government as reflected in the laws passed by the Legislature. That is solely the prerogative of the Legislature itself.

"An Ombudsman's task varies in different countries, but generally speaking he advises members of the Legislature on the manner in which executive powers conferred by the Legislature are carried out by the executive; and calls their attention confidentially to any ways in which current legislation works badly in detail. He is appointed because it is thought difficult for large legislatures to oversee such matters collectively. Here, this comparatively small Council can I think oversee these matters collectively, provided they have the necessary facilities to investigate particular complaints in detail. This I hope has now been provided; but if anything else is needed to assist Honour- able Members, consideration will certainly be given to arranging it."

I have no doubt that now that the necessary facilities have been provided, any matters outside the scope of the Urban Council, which Members consider to be of public impor- tance, can be raised direct with the secretary of ‘UMELCO', that is, the Office of the Unofficial Members of the Execu- tive and Legislative Councils, 706 Union House, Hong Kong,

MR. BERNACCHI :-Mr. Chairman, in His Excellency's speech that you have rendered in your answer, he says that an Ombudsman is usually a person who advises members of the Legislature confidentially as to the manner in which the laws they pass are being administered. Are you in favour therefore of a member of this Council being appointed Ombudsman to advise the Legislature confidentially of the way in which the laws are being carried out?

CHAIRMAN:-Sir, I must point out that you are asking of me an expression of personal opinion which I cannot give to you, I feel, Sir, that this is a matter on which we have to seek the collective guidance of this Council and to abide by the majority opinion.

1964 — Page 294

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