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HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

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In conclusion, we shall continue to bear in mind the possibility of building resettlement estates on nearby islands, but for the reasons given earlier, it is not wholly practicable to consider large-scale resettlement on such sites unless we simultaneously undertake large development, including industrial and social expansion, in the same vicinity. I would, Mr. Chairman, like to suggest that if this motion could be amended to urge Government to continue to consider and investigate the possibility of using the islands, and if also that there could be some reference, besides ferry services, to the need to provide other essential social ser- vices and employment, I would be only too happy to support the motion, but I cannot support it in its present form in spite of the sympathy I have for Mrs. ELLIOTT.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, on a point of clarification, is Mr. WRIGHT formally moving an amendment to this motion?

DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS: Mr. Chairman, quite frankly, I would say "No". I was merely pointing out the sort of motion that I could support. I was not formally moving an amendment.

MRS. ELLIOTT:--Mr. Chairman, may I reply to the various points? In reply to Mr. Li Yiu-bor, I would like to refer to his first point that the squatters will not like it. I quite agree that they will not like it and if Mr. LI will remember, last month I pointed out that they did not like going from Hong Kong to Kowloon, and this is an alternative which I think could possibly be a little better, because, as I have said, transport from the islands could possibly be better than pouring and squeezing them all in to the neck of the Kowloon peninsula. On the second point, Mr. Li mentioned employment. I have already said that if we had a good ferry service it would cost them no more to travel and quite probably less to travel from the islands if they were taken back to approximately the area they came from. It would take less money probably and less time than they are expending at the present time in travelling from the outskirts of Kowloon back to Hong Kong. Con- cerning ferries, they could be included in the investigation. Mr. Li also mentioned that this would delay our resettlement programme, but I want to point out that this is intended to be a forward planning. We cannot just go on building for ever in Kowloon or Hong Kong. I was assured last month that it was impossible to find any more sites in Kowloon. Where then are we going to find them? We must go somewhere and I suggest this is a possibility which should be explored. Mr. Li also mentioned that the squatters would consider themselves to be outcasts. If they consider themselves to be outcasts, we would be to blame; we should show them that this is not intended to be the case; we are intend- ing to find for them a better way of living, a better way of travelling, a happier way of living, and if we cannot give enough propaganda to show them that it is better to live in a healthy island than it is to travel

or stand in a queue on a bus, then there is something wrong with our public relations work.

Concerning Mr. WRIGHT's suggestions and enlightenment on the problem, I am very grateful, because he has touched on the things that were in my mind, and he has also shown us that these things have already been considered. I would be very happy to amend the motion to say "continue" provided we stress the word "urgently".

DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS:-May I speak again, Mr. Chairman, and try to clarify what Mrs. ELLIOTT has just said (if I understood her correctly), that she was suggesting these outlying islands rather as the next stage of development after we have saturated Kowloon. I am talking from memory and I may have my figures wrong. My recollec- tion is that we expect to provide something like 900,000 places by the end of 1969 and the White Paper puts forward a very much bigger programme for the 10-year one--I think 1.5 million-and this envisages within the next 5-year period virtually all the sites now under construc- tion or which are being formed, and these are in the area from Kwai Chung to Yau Tong. They are verging into the New Territories but they include what I call urban Kowloon. After 1970 we have to go outside Kowloon and it is just at that very period when we will have to think where we can go next for places out in the New Territories. As I understood the motion before 'Mrs. ELLIOTT spoke just now, I thought it was primarily concerned with the resettlement of the comparatively small numbers of squatters on Hong Kong Island. If it is intended to solve the immediate problem, within the next five years, I would try to consider the problem of squatters being resettled from Hong Kong over to Kowloon. I would like to get that point clarified. I feel that in considering these islands as an immediate measure, it has now become urgent to consider them because of the planning involved, but there is no expectation of getting buildings there for several years.

MRS. ELLIOTT:-Mr. Chairman, if I may clarify the point. It is quite true that I had in mind the Hong Kong squatters who are now being resettled to the outlying areas of Kowloon. I do not think the roads will take any more transport. I do not see how the squatters could possibly be resettled there and be able to get back to their work. I think we do need to consider this matter as urgent but not to eclipse the other programme.

DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC Works:-Thank you, Mrs. ELLIOTT.

MR. WATSON:-Mr. Chairman, there is just one point about Mrs. ELLIOTT's last remark about travelling by road. As I see it, the majority of the Hong Kong squatters who have to be resettled are in the Shau Kei Wan and North Point areas and I do not see why they should have to travel by road rather than by ferry. If we are going to resettle them