1963 — Page 107

Urban Council Proceedings 市政局議事錄 All AI Reviewed

Page 107 of 194

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

on border-line cases thereafter are taken by the Resettlement Officer, Operations, or the Administrative Officer, Operations, who, if the need arises, personally interview the applicants. If they too are in doubt, they refer cases to me as the competent authority, and sometimes the Policy Select Committee is also consulted.

The second question concerns the departmental action taken if a report by a screening officer is found to be incorrect. Since this is a hypothetical question, it is necessary to deal with it from two points of view. Firstly, if the screening officer's report was found, as a result of subsequent information, to contain errors of fact which are no fault of the officer concerned, administrative action to correct the errors and the resultant decision, if any, would be taken immediately. If, on the other hand, the errors were due to the misconduct of the officer concerned, suitable disciplinary action in accordance with General Orders would be taken, quite apart from correcting the consequences, if any, of this default.

The third question refers to the location of sites assigned to old people and women with small children in resite areas. As I explained on a previous occasion in answer to a similar question, resite areas must often, because of the shortage of undeveloped Crown land available for this purpose, occupy sites which are rather remote and inconvenient. Hence it is not possible for the Resettlement Department to undertake to provide any family which is offered a resite with an easily accessible site. It is therefore incorrect and misleading to imply, as I interpret this question to do, that Resettlement Department staff willingly impose more hardship upon families containing old people or very young children who are being offered resiting than they can help.

MRS. ELLIOTT:- Mr. Chairman, may I ask the Commissioner a supplementary question in connexion with the first part of his reply? Are we to infer that, supposing we were unlucky enough to have an unscrupulous officer, and the report was favourable, the officer would be allowed to continue with the favourable report without any check being made?

COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:- Mr. Chairman, this again is a hypothetical question.

MRS. ELLIOTT:- I would like to ask another supplementary concerning unfavourable reports. Does the Commissioner imply that it is only in cases where people complain that particulars are checked?

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

For example, supposing a person does not know how to write to the Resettlement Department, does he have to find an Urban Councillor to send in his complaint, or otherwise would he be unfairly treated?

COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:- Mr. Chairman, this is all theory. I would invite your attention to the fact that these are hypothetical questions.

MRS. ELLIOTT:- I am sorry I have another question. Actually I do not think the Commissioner has answered my questions at all. I said: Would the Department consider setting up some kind of checking system?

COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:- Mr. Chairman, this checking system already exists. Senior officers are responsible for ensuring that their subordinates do their duty correctly.

MRS. ELLIOTT:- I do not think I have anything more to say about the checking system, because the Commissioner for Resettlement does not seem to see the question in the same way as I do. But for old people to be sent to tops of hills—of course we know that resites must sometimes be inconvenient, but I would draw the Commissioner's attention to the fact that I said "indiscriminately". I wonder if the Commissioner could tell us whether his officers are given any instructions to discriminate between those who are able and those who are disabled.

COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:- The rule of thumb is first come first served in this case. In certain cases, if it is apparent to the officer responsible for a resite that there are disabled people or very aged people who have to be resited he will have discretion to put them to an easier spot.

MRS. ELLIOTT:- May I ask if the officers are given instructions about using discretion in this case?

COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:- I cannot quote any precise instructions, as this is something which has been done in the Department for a very long time. I have no reason to believe that it has not been carried out effectively and efficiently.

MR. BERNACCHI:- I would like to ask a supplementary question. I think in answer to a question asked at a meeting or two ago the Commissioner said that favourable reports were only spot checked and no regular system of checking was in operation. If so, does the Commissioner think that this is working well or does he think that any of the Resettlement staff are using it for corrupt purposes?

COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:- In this case, Mr. Chairman, I have been called on to express an opinion, which is expressly forbidden in the Standing Orders of this Council.

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Page 107 of 194 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL on border-line cases thereafter are taken by the Resettlement Officer, Operations, or the Administrative Officer, Operations, who, if the need arises, personally interview the applicants. If they too are in doubt, they refer cases to me as the competent authority, and sometimes the Policy Select Committee is also consulted. The second question concerns the departmental action taken if a report by a screening officer is found to be incorrect. Since this is a hypothetical question, it is necessary to deal with it from two points of view. Firstly, if the screening officer's report was found, as a result of subsequent information, to contain errors of fact which are no fault of the officer concerned, administrative action to correct the errors and the resultant decision, if any, would be taken immediately. If, on the other hand, the errors were due to the misconduct of the officer concerned, suitable disciplinary action in accordance with General Orders would be taken, quite apart from correcting the consequences, if any, of this default. The third question refers to the location of sites assigned to old people and women with small children in resite areas. As I explained on a previous occasion in answer to a similar question, resite areas must often, because of the shortage of undeveloped Crown land available for this purpose, occupy sites which are rather remote and inconvenient. Hence it is not possible for the Resettlement Department to undertake to provide any family which is offered a resite with an easily accessible site. It is therefore incorrect and misleading to imply, as I interpret this question to do, that Resettlement Department staff willingly impose more hardship upon families containing old people or very young children who are being offered resiting than they can help. MRS. ELLIOTT:- Mr. Chairman, may I ask the Commissioner a supplementary question in connexion with the first part of his reply? Are we to infer that, supposing we were unlucky enough to have an unscrupulous officer, and the report was favourable, the officer would be allowed to continue with the favourable report without any check being made? COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:- Mr. Chairman, this again is a hypothetical question. MRS. ELLIOTT:- I would like to ask another supplementary concerning unfavourable reports. Does the Commissioner imply that it is only in cases where people complain that particulars are checked? HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL For example, supposing a person does not know how to write to the Resettlement Department, does he have to find an Urban Councillor to send in his complaint, or otherwise would he be unfairly treated? COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:- Mr. Chairman, this is all theory. I would invite your attention to the fact that these are hypothetical questions. MRS. ELLIOTT:- I am sorry I have another question. Actually I do not think the Commissioner has answered my questions at all. I said: Would the Department consider setting up some kind of checking system? COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:- Mr. Chairman, this checking system already exists. Senior officers are responsible for ensuring that their subordinates do their duty correctly. MRS. ELLIOTT:- I do not think I have anything more to say about the checking system, because the Commissioner for Resettlement does not seem to see the question in the same way as I do. But for old people to be sent to tops of hills—of course we know that resites must sometimes be inconvenient, but I would draw the Commissioner's attention to the fact that I said "indiscriminately". I wonder if the Commissioner could tell us whether his officers are given any instructions to discriminate between those who are able and those who are disabled. COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:- The rule of thumb is first come first served in this case. In certain cases, if it is apparent to the officer responsible for a resite that there are disabled people or very aged people who have to be resited he will have discretion to put them to an easier spot. MRS. ELLIOTT:- May I ask if the officers are given instructions about using discretion in this case? COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:- I cannot quote any precise instructions, as this is something which has been done in the Department for a very long time. I have no reason to believe that it has not been carried out effectively and efficiently. MR. BERNACCHI:- I would like to ask a supplementary question. I think in answer to a question asked at a meeting or two ago the Commissioner said that favourable reports were only spot checked and no regular system of checking was in operation. If so, does the Commissioner think that this is working well or does he think that any of the Resettlement staff are using it for corrupt purposes? COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:- In this case, Mr. Chairman, I have been called on to express an opinion, which is expressly forbidden in the Standing Orders of this Council. Page 108 of 194
Baseline (Original)
of 194 Page 107 of 194 196 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL on border-line cases thereafter are taken by the Resettle- ment Officer, Operations, or the Administrative Officer, Operations, who, if the need arises, personally interview the applicants. If they too are in doubt, they refer cases to me as the competent authority, and sometimes the Policy Select Committee is also consulted. The second question concerns the departmental action taken if a report by a screening officer is found to be incorrect. Since this is a hypothetical question, it is necessary to deal with it from two points of view. Firstly, if the screening officer's report was found, as a result of subsequent information, to contain errors of fact which are no fault of the officer concerned, administrative action to correct the errors and the resultant decision, if any, would be taken immediately. If, on the other hand, the errors were due to the misconduct of the officer concerned, suitable disciplinary action in accordance with General Orders would be taken, quite apart from correcting the con- sequences, if any, of this default. The third question refers to the location of sites assigned to old people and women with small children in resite areas. As I explained on a previous occasion in answer to a similar question, resite areas must often, because of the shortage of undeveloped Crown land available for this purpose, occupy sites which are rather remote and inconvenient. Hence it is not possible for the Resettlement Department to undertake to provide any family which is offered a resite with an easily accessible site. It is therefore in- correct and misleading to imply, as I interpret this question to do, that Resettlement Department staff willingly impose more hardship upon families containing old people or very young children who are being offered resiting than they can help. MRS. ELLIOTT:-Mr. Chairman, may I ask the Commissioner a supplementary question in connexion with the first part of his reply? Are we to infer that, supposing we were unlucky enough to have an unscrupulous officer, and the report was favourable, the officer would be allowed to continue with the favourable report without any check being made? COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-Mr. Chairman, this again is a hypothetical question. MRS. ELLIOTT:-I would like to ask another supplementary con- cerning unfavourable reports. Does the Commissioner imply that it is only in cases where people complain that particulars are checked? HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL 197 For example, supposing a person does not know how to write to the Resettlement Department, does he have to find an Urban Councillor to send in his complaint, or otherwise would he be unfairly treated? COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT: --Mr. Chairman, this is all theory. I would invite your attention to the fact that these are hypothetical questions. MRS. ELLIOTT:-I am sorry I have another question. Actually I do not think the Commissioner has answered my questions at all. I said: Would the Department consider setting up some kind of check- ing system? COMMISSIONER for ResettleMENT:-Mr. Chairman, this checking system already exists. Senior officers are responsible for ensuring that their subordinates do their duty correctly. MRS. ELLIOTT:-I do not think I have anything more to say about the checking system, because the Commissioner for Resettlement does not seem to see the question in the same way as I do. But for old people to be sent to tops of hills-of course we know that resites must sometimes be inconvenient, but I would draw the Commissioner's attention to the fact that I said "indiscriminately". I wonder if the Commissioner could tell us whether his officers are given any instructions to discriminate between those who are able and those who are disabled. COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-The rule of thumb is first come first served in this case. In certain cases, if it is apparent to the officer responsible for a resite that there are disabled people or very aged people who have to be resited he will have discretion to put them to an easier spot. MRS. ELLIOTT:-May I ask if the officers are given instructions about using discretion in this case? COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT: I cannot quote any precise instructions, as this is something which has been done in the Depart- ment for a very long time. I have no reason to believe that it has not been carried out effectively and efficiently. MR. BERNACCHI:--I would like to ask a supplementary question. I think in answer to a question asked at a meeting or two ago the Commissioner said that favourable reports were only spot checked and no regular system of checking was in operation. If so, does the Com- missioner think that this is working well or does he think that any of the Resettlement staff are using it for corrupt purposes? COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-In this case, Mr. Chairman, I have been called on to express an opinion, which is expressly forbidden in the Standing Orders of this Council.
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Page 107 of 194

196

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

on border-line cases thereafter are taken by the Resettle- ment Officer, Operations, or the Administrative Officer, Operations, who, if the need arises, personally interview the applicants. If they too are in doubt, they refer cases to me as the competent authority, and sometimes the Policy Select Committee is also consulted.

The second question concerns the departmental action taken if a report by a screening officer is found to be incorrect. Since this is a hypothetical question, it is necessary to deal with it from two points of view. Firstly, if the screening officer's report was found, as a result of subsequent information, to contain errors of fact which are no fault of the officer concerned, administrative action to correct the errors and the resultant decision, if any, would be taken immediately. If, on the other hand, the errors were due to the misconduct of the officer concerned, suitable disciplinary action in accordance with General Orders would be taken, quite apart from correcting the con- sequences, if any, of this default.

The third question refers to the location of sites assigned to old people and women with small children in resite areas. As I explained on a previous occasion in answer to a similar question, resite areas must often, because of the shortage of undeveloped Crown land available for this purpose, occupy sites which are rather remote and inconvenient. Hence it is not possible for the Resettlement Department to undertake to provide any family which is offered a resite with an easily accessible site. It is therefore in- correct and misleading to imply, as I interpret this question to do, that Resettlement Department staff willingly impose more hardship upon families containing old people or very young children who are being offered resiting than they can help.

MRS. ELLIOTT:-Mr. Chairman, may I ask the Commissioner a supplementary question in connexion with the first part of his reply? Are we to infer that, supposing we were unlucky enough to have an unscrupulous officer, and the report was favourable, the officer would be allowed to continue with the favourable report without any check being made?

COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-Mr. Chairman, this again is a hypothetical question.

MRS. ELLIOTT:-I would like to ask another supplementary con- cerning unfavourable reports. Does the Commissioner imply that it is only in cases where people complain that particulars are checked?

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

197

For example, supposing a person does not know how to write to the Resettlement Department, does he have to find an Urban Councillor to send in his complaint, or otherwise would he be unfairly treated?

COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT: --Mr. Chairman, this is all theory. I would invite your attention to the fact that these are hypothetical questions.

MRS. ELLIOTT:-I am sorry I have another question. Actually I do not think the Commissioner has answered my questions at all. I said: Would the Department consider setting up some kind of check- ing system?

COMMISSIONER for ResettleMENT:-Mr. Chairman, this checking system already exists. Senior officers are responsible for ensuring that their subordinates do their duty correctly.

MRS. ELLIOTT:-I do not think I have anything more to say about the checking system, because the Commissioner for Resettlement does not seem to see the question in the same way as I do. But for old people to be sent to tops of hills-of course we know that resites must sometimes be inconvenient, but I would draw the Commissioner's attention to the fact that I said "indiscriminately". I wonder if the Commissioner could tell us whether his officers are given any instructions to discriminate between those who are able and those who are disabled.

COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-The rule of thumb is first come first served in this case. In certain cases, if it is apparent to the officer responsible for a resite that there are disabled people or very aged people who have to be resited he will have discretion to put them to an easier spot.

MRS. ELLIOTT:-May I ask if the officers are given instructions about using discretion in this case?

COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT: I cannot quote any precise instructions, as this is something which has been done in the Depart- ment for a very long time. I have no reason to believe that it has not been carried out effectively and efficiently.

MR. BERNACCHI:--I would like to ask a supplementary question. I think in answer to a question asked at a meeting or two ago the Commissioner said that favourable reports were only spot checked and no regular system of checking was in operation. If so, does the Com- missioner think that this is working well or does he think that any of the Resettlement staff are using it for corrupt purposes?

COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-In this case, Mr. Chairman, I have been called on to express an opinion, which is expressly forbidden in the Standing Orders of this Council.

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