1962 — Page 78

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HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

I need not stress how objectionable this invasion of the privacy of squatter families would be. Their lives are difficult enough as it is, without adding the misery of disturbed nights. Mr. BERNACCHI has been reported as saying that Hong Kong is a police state.

Yet this proposal of his would require us to adopt, as a necessary matter of policy, one of the worst features of such a state, the frightening knock on the door at midnight, not by the police but by our own squatter patrol officers.

There is no other way of controlling the conversion from non-domestic to domestic premises than by this action, and I wonder whether Mr. BERNACCHI and his supporters have considered the full implications of their proposals. There are many more than the ones I have mentioned. Is Government, for example, prepared to give us the extra staff, and to pay overtime rates for this night work? If not, do we expect our present staff to do the extra work in addition to their present duties? And again, if not, are we prepared to accept the wholesale conversion of all non-domestic accommodation, because it will be impossible for us to prove when they ceased to be non-domestic.

In conclusion I would like to express my own personal view that I would like to have a full discussion of all the details and implications of these proposals in the Resettlement Policy and Clearance Select Committee, before any drastic changes are made in our accepted policy.

(At this point, the SECRETARY FOR CHINESE AFFAIRS left the meeting)

MR. A. de O. SALES:- Mr. Chairman, the motion that is before this Council to-day has essentially a two-fold aspect, even though the policy that may be suggested is singular in its form. We have heard both Dr. LEE and Dr. BELL marshalling very compelling arguments in favour of this policy. Their speeches were most impressive indeed. We have also heard—because we believe in freedom of expression on this side of the table—what are, in essence, Mr. WATSON's own views, shared no doubt by other people as well.

The question before this Council, Mr. Chairman, I suggest, is whether the policy which was first adopted in 1954 has taken into account the situation which has arisen in regard to illegal squatting over a prolonged period of time. The inquiries which we have made in Select Committee indicate that few, if any, huts go undetected for a prolonged period of time. In essence, we are recognizing a situation which the Department has in fact taken care of in, we hope, the efficient manner which this Council has come to expect of the Department and the Commissioner. If squatters are not capable of escaping detection for any prolonged period of time, this new policy, which has been suggested, is merely a recognition of squatters' rights, thus removing those considerations which, as Dr. LEE has pointed out, are not humane. On the other hand, the fear of corruption should not deter this Council from introducing any policy in which the Council believes, as that would lead the Council to refrain from taking action in many other functions which the Council exercises for just the fear of creating opportunities for corruption.

Mr. Chairman, I am not clear in my mind as to what is the definition acceptable to this Council of "non-domestic premises". The Select Committee has this matter under consideration and the Select Committee would like to pursue the definition and to do perhaps more research before coming to a specific conclusion on the matter of conversion, because I cannot imagine that, when a hut was first classified, the squatters in that particular hut, while using it for some process of manufacture, would abandon it at night, thus making it completely "non-domestic". It is simply unrealistic.

Mr. Chairman, the whole approach to the resettlement problem in Hong Kong should be one characterized by realism. We know that we will always have squatters with us. In ten years we hope to have provided accommodation for over a million squatters, and no doubt by just the natural rate of growth we will have many more. Therefore, I think it would be fair for this Council to consider this policy separately. I would have moved a motion to divide the question were it possible to do so under our Standing Orders, but, as it is not provided for under our Standing Orders to divide the motion and separate it into its two aspects, I would like, with your permission, to amend this motion by the omission of the word "and" after "months" and separate the motion into two. That would enable this Council to take appropriate action in the two-fold aspects of the problem. I so move that amendment.

MR. J. L. MARDEN: Mr. Chairman, I would like to second that amendment.

COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:- The amendment put forward by Mr. SALES to the effect that the motion be split and the second part referred to the Select Committee has my full support.

I would mention that the number of cases of newly erected structures encountered in the past and likely to be encountered in the future is very small indeed, as the officers of Squatter Control display commendable vigilance and are required to follow a regular time schedule in patrolling their areas.

DR. LEE:- Mr. Chairman, may I know how does the amended version read?

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