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time that other departments interested in the matter had been consulted, it was too late to do this.

Also, it was found that the driver of a powered catamaran must first be in possession of a combined Coxwain/Engineers Certificate. It would not be practicable during the bathing season to spare beach staff for training for this certificate. The better course would be to train the staff during the winter. It is hoped to include provision for these engines in the 1963/64 draft Estimates.

Meantime, cleaning of the water by means of scoops and fishing nets is carried out where necessary, as I have already said, by man-power.

In point (e), you ask to what extent outside expert opinion has been sought on how to improve Hong Kong beaches. As you know, the Urban Amenities Select Committee recently heard the views of Professor S. G. DAVIS of Hong Kong University and Mr. H. V. ARDY of the Government Stores Department (formerly of the Sand Monopoly) on the general principles of how sand beaches form. The consensus of opinion was that it was dangerous without expert knowledge to tamper with the natural balance of equilibrium of sand beaches. Expert knowledge in this case would have to be familiar with local conditions, currents, tides and geology.

As regards general cleanliness and control of beaches, an inquiry has recently been addressed to Australian beach authorities and another is about to be sent to a large bathing resort in the United Kingdom. It is possible that we will learn something useful from these sources.

In reply to point (f), under the Fourth Schedule to the Public Health and Urban Services Ordinance, there are 12 public bathing beaches in the urban areas under the control of this Council and 18 beaches in the New Territories under the Urban Services Department.

In reply to point (g), in the last 5 years, three new beaches have been added in the urban areas; namely Hairpin, Chung Hom Wan and St. Stephen's. In the New Territories, two beaches were added: Campers and Trio. There are a number of other beaches which formerly were used by the public in a minor way but have become much more popular following the introduction of beach facilities over the past 5 years.

In point (h) you ask what steps are being taken to make more beaches available to the public. I think that the limit has probably been reached in opening up new beaches in the

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urban areas. There are a few small undeveloped beaches left, but they all suffer from major defects such as lengthy approach, rocky shore, traditional fishing anchorage, or streams carrying discharge from cultivation and dwellings higher up. An example is Deity beach which can be reached on land only by clambering down 600 yards of steps. You will probably agree that it is not economical to develop small difficult beaches which do not lie on public transport routes. The better course is to consider ways and means of enlarging and improving existing popular beaches which have adequate car parks and bus stops.

In the New Territories, the construction of a number of new roads may lead eventually to the development of more public bathing beaches, which should in time relieve pressure on the beaches in the urban areas. For instance, the south Lantau road gives access to Cheung Sha beach and the same may be true of new roads to be built in the Sai Kung peninsula and on the east side of Tide Cove.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:--Mr. Chairman, with Mr. SALES' permission, I would like to ask one supplementary. Mention is made in your extensive reply that at the beaches anti-litter talks are broadcast regularly over the week-ends and also labourers are employed at all beaches to collect refuse. I was at the Shek O beach last week-end and in the open space behind the beach, that is, the space between the car park and the beach, I was rather astonished to see the extent to which litter was being thrown on the ground by members of the public. I am wondering whether it would be possible for the rest of the bathing season at beaches such as Shek O for responsible members of the staff to visit there fairly regularly to encourage members of the public not to throw rubbish indiscriminately on the ground. I think that this might have a more marked effect than just the broadcast on throwing litter on the ground indiscriminately. Could that be done, Mr. Chairman?

CHAIRMAN:--As far as I am aware, Sir, fairly senior members of the staff do visit places such as Shek O during the week-ends. However, I will look into your suggestion.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:--Mr. Chairman, by way of explanation, I must say that the staff over there are 'very much on the ball'.

I saw vessels moving close to the shore and our staff asked them to move further out, but nothing was done to encourage members of the public not to throw litter on the ground.

MR. SALES:--Mr. Chairman, may I refer the right of the Member to make a speech at question time to the Chairman of the Standing Orders and Procedure Select Committee?

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