1962 — Page 143

Urban Council Proceedings 市政局議事錄 All AI Reviewed

270

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

271

CHAIRMAN:-There was discussion in the Committee meeting in the normal way, and eventually the Committee agreed to the proposals.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Thank you.

DR. BELL: Mr. Chairman, perhaps Mr. Hilton CHEONG-LEEN could be supplied with the minutes of the meeting of that particular Select Committee?

CHAIRMAN: Certainly.

MR. SALES: ---Mr. Chairman, may I, with your permission, as Chairman of that Select Committee, draw your attention to the fact that Mr. CHEONG-LEEN himself is a member of that Select Committee (Laughter) and may I lay on the table the minutes of the meeting in question?

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, may I ask a supplementary? I presume I was present at that meeting? (Laughter).

MR. SALES: Mr. CHEONG-LEEN was on leave at the time but he received a copy of the minutes.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-I must admit, Mr. Chairman, that I did not recall in the huge pile of minutes which I read on my return about this particular Committee having agreed to the charges by Government. I raised this question by way of clarifying to what extent this Committee is responsible for deciding on revision of car park fees, and I would like to have your confirmation that this Committee does not have any responsibility whatsoever.

CHAIRMAN:-Sir, since the matter was referred for comment and opinion, the Committee must bear some responsibility.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, may I ask you for clarification? If the Committee had said "No" would Government have accepted its proposals?

CHAIRMAN:-Sir, that is a hypothetical question.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-I ask that, Mr. Chairman, because it is stated that of the three suggestions which were made by the Committee, one was accepted, and two were not.

CHAIRMAN:-Sir, the two that were not accepted had reference to the charge for the initial parking period of 24 hours and to the new charges being increased rather illogically, as it seems, if compared with the old charges. Now, on examination, the first point was met by the argument that parking for short periods in the multi-storey car parks is not desirable, and the second point was met by the argument that the new charges are logical and the old ones were not. The new charges, after the charge has been reached for the first four hours of parking, progress steadily at the rate of an additional 30 cents for every hour thereafter. I can only surmise that on the basis of those arguments these two particular points raised in the Committee discussion were not accepted eventually.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Thank you, Mr. Chairman. May I ask you to be good enough, Sir, to suggest to Government officially that in future it might be much simpler if this Council could be given the responsibility of deciding upon any changes in the charges for multi-storey car parks, particularly since we are responsible for their management after completion?

CHAIRMAN:-Sir, I do not think I would be willing to do that. The Select Committee and the Council has a certain responsibility, but the main responsibility for originating the proposals lies with the Finance Branch of the Colonial Secretariat. We can make our viewpoint clear and that appears to be the limit of the Council's responsibility.

MR. BERNACCHI:-On a point of order. I remember that when the relevant car parks were first handed over to the Council to manage, we, with Government's consent admittedly, fixed the rates of charges. In other words, the initiative came from us, not from Government.

CHAIRMAN:-I was not in the department at the time and you have the advantage over me, Sir. Mr. CHEONG-LEEN's remarks have been noted and will be recorded, and I will bring them to the notice of Government.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Thank you very much.

MR. B. A. BERNACCHI asked the following question:

(a) Was this Council consulted by the Traffic Department of the Police Force before the pedestrian crossing over Connaught Road to the City Hall was closed?

(b) Can this Council be given any indication as to why it has been closed and how long it will be closed?

(c) Is it a fact that the pedestrian crossing was originally placed in that position to give easy access to the main door of the High Block of the City Hall?

Page 143 of 150

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270 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL 271 CHAIRMAN:-There was discussion in the Committee meeting in the normal way, and eventually the Committee agreed to the proposals. MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Thank you. DR. BELL: Mr. Chairman, perhaps Mr. Hilton CHEONG-LEEN could be supplied with the minutes of the meeting of that particular Select Committee? CHAIRMAN: Certainly. MR. SALES: ---Mr. Chairman, may I, with your permission, as Chairman of that Select Committee, draw your attention to the fact that Mr. CHEONG-LEEN himself is a member of that Select Committee (Laughter) and may I lay on the table the minutes of the meeting in question? MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, may I ask a supplementary? I presume I was present at that meeting? (Laughter). MR. SALES: Mr. CHEONG-LEEN was on leave at the time but he received a copy of the minutes. MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-I must admit, Mr. Chairman, that I did not recall in the huge pile of minutes which I read on my return about this particular Committee having agreed to the charges by Government. I raised this question by way of clarifying to what extent this Committee is responsible for deciding on revision of car park fees, and I would like to have your confirmation that this Committee does not have any responsibility whatsoever. CHAIRMAN:-Sir, since the matter was referred for comment and opinion, the Committee must bear some responsibility. MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, may I ask you for clarification? If the Committee had said "No" would Government have accepted its proposals? CHAIRMAN:-Sir, that is a hypothetical question. MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-I ask that, Mr. Chairman, because it is stated that of the three suggestions which were made by the Committee, one was accepted, and two were not. CHAIRMAN:-Sir, the two that were not accepted had reference to the charge for the initial parking period of 24 hours and to the new charges being increased rather illogically, as it seems, if compared with the old charges. Now, on examination, the first point was met by the argument that parking for short periods in the multi-storey car parks is not desirable, and the second point was met by the argument that the new charges are logical and the old ones were not. The new charges, after the charge has been reached for the first four hours of parking, progress steadily at the rate of an additional 30 cents for every hour thereafter. I can only surmise that on the basis of those arguments these two particular points raised in the Committee discussion were not accepted eventually. MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Thank you, Mr. Chairman. May I ask you to be good enough, Sir, to suggest to Government officially that in future it might be much simpler if this Council could be given the responsibility of deciding upon any changes in the charges for multi-storey car parks, particularly since we are responsible for their management after completion? CHAIRMAN:-Sir, I do not think I would be willing to do that. The Select Committee and the Council has a certain responsibility, but the main responsibility for originating the proposals lies with the Finance Branch of the Colonial Secretariat. We can make our viewpoint clear and that appears to be the limit of the Council's responsibility. MR. BERNACCHI:-On a point of order. I remember that when the relevant car parks were first handed over to the Council to manage, we, with Government's consent admittedly, fixed the rates of charges. In other words, the initiative came from us, not from Government. CHAIRMAN:-I was not in the department at the time and you have the advantage over me, Sir. Mr. CHEONG-LEEN's remarks have been noted and will be recorded, and I will bring them to the notice of Government. MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Thank you very much. MR. B. A. BERNACCHI asked the following question: (a) Was this Council consulted by the Traffic Department of the Police Force before the pedestrian crossing over Connaught Road to the City Hall was closed? (b) Can this Council be given any indication as to why it has been closed and how long it will be closed? (c) Is it a fact that the pedestrian crossing was originally placed in that position to give easy access to the main door of the High Block of the City Hall? Page 143 of 150

Baseline (Original)

of 150 270 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL 271 CHAIRMAN:-There was discussion in the Committee meeting in the normal way, and eventually the Committee agreed to the proposals. MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Thank you. DR. BELL: Mr. Chairman, perhaps Mr. Hilton CHEONG-LEEN could be supplied with the minutes of the meeting of that particular Select Committee? CHAIRMAN: Certainly. MR. SALES: ---Mr. Chairman, may I, with your permission, as Chair- man of that Select Committee, draw your attention to the fact that Mr. CHEONG-LEEN himself is a member of that Select Committee (Laughter) and may I lay on the table the minutes of the meeting in question? MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, may I ask a supplementary? I presume I was present at that meeting? (Laughter). MR. SALES:Mr. CHEONG-LEEN was on leave at the time but he received a copy of the minutes. MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-I must admit, Mr. Chairman, that I did not recall in the huge pile of minutes which I read on my return about this particular Committee having agreed to the charges by Government. I raised this question by way of clarifying to what extent this Committee is responsible for deciding on revision of car park fees, and I would like to have your confirmation that this Committee does not have any responsibility whatsoever. CHAIRMAN: -Sir, since the matter was referred for comment and opinion, the Committee must bear some responsibility. MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, may I ask you for clarifica- tion? If the Committee had said "No" would Government have accepted its proposals? CHAIRMAN:--Sir, that is a hypothetical question. MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-I ask that, Mr. Chairman, because it is stated that of the three suggestions which were made by the Committee, one was accepted, and two were not. CHAIRMAN: --Sir, the two that were not accepted had reference to the charge for the initial parking period of 24 hours and to the new charges being increased rather illogically, as it seems, if compared with the old charges. Now, on examination, the first point was met by the argument that parking for short periods in the multi-storey car parks is not desirable, and the second point was met by the argument that the new charges are logical and the old ones were not. The new charges, after the charge has been reached for the first four hours of parking, progress steadily at the rate of an additional 30 cents for every hour thereafter. I can only surmise that on the basis of those arguments these two particular points raised in the Committee discussion were not accepted eventually. MR. CHEONG-LEEN : -Thank you, Mr. Chairman. May I ask you to be good enough, Sir, to suggest to Government officially that in future it might be much simpler if this Council could be given the respon- sibility of deciding upon any changes in the charges for multi-storey car parks, particularly since we are responsible for their management after completion? CHAIRMAN:-Sir, I do not think I would be willing to do that. The Select Committee and the Council has a certain responsibility, but the main responsibility for originating the proposals lies with the Finance Branch of the Colonial Secretariat. We can make our view- point clear and that appears to be the limit of the Council's respon- sibility. MR. BERNACCHI:-On a point of order. I remember that when the relevant car parks were first handed over to the Council to manage, we, with Government's consent admittedly, fixed the rates of charges. In other words, the initiative came from us, not from Government. CHAIRMAN:-I was not in the department at the time and you have the advantage over me, Sir. Mr. CHEONG-LEEN's remarks have been noted and will be recorded, and I will bring them to the notice of Government. MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Thank you very much. MR. B. A. BERNACCHI asked the following question:· (a) Was this Council consulted by the Traffic Department of the Police Force before the pedestrian crossing over Connaught Road to the City Hall was closed? (b) Can this Council be given any indication as to why it has been closed and how long it will be closed? (c) Is it a fact that the pedestrian crossing was originally placed in that position to give easy access to the main door of the High Block of the City Hall? Page 143 of 150"

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270

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

271

CHAIRMAN:-There was discussion in the Committee meeting in the normal way, and eventually the Committee agreed to the proposals.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Thank you.

DR. BELL: Mr. Chairman, perhaps Mr. Hilton CHEONG-LEEN could be supplied with the minutes of the meeting of that particular Select Committee?

CHAIRMAN:

Certainly.

MR. SALES: ---Mr. Chairman, may I, with your permission, as Chair- man of that Select Committee, draw your attention to the fact that Mr. CHEONG-LEEN himself is a member of that Select Committee (Laughter) and may I lay on the table the minutes of the meeting in question?

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, may I ask a supplementary? I presume I was present at that meeting? (Laughter).

MR. SALES:Mr. CHEONG-LEEN was on leave at the time but he received a copy of the minutes.

CHAIRMAN: -Sir, since the matter was referred for comment and opinion, the Committee must bear some responsibility.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, may I ask you for clarifica- tion? If the Committee had said "No" would Government have accepted its proposals?

CHAIRMAN:--Sir, that is a hypothetical question.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-I ask that, Mr. Chairman, because it is stated that of the three suggestions which were made by the Committee, one was accepted, and two were not.

CHAIRMAN: --Sir, the two that were not accepted had reference to the charge for the initial parking period of 24 hours and to the new charges being increased rather illogically, as it seems, if compared with the old charges. Now, on examination, the first point was met by the argument that parking for short periods in the multi-storey car parks is not desirable, and the second point was met by the argument that the

new charges are logical and the old ones were not. The new charges, after the charge has been reached for the first four hours of parking, progress steadily at the rate of an additional 30 cents for every hour thereafter. I can only surmise that on the basis of those arguments these two particular points raised in the Committee discussion were not accepted eventually.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN : -Thank you, Mr. Chairman. May I ask you to be good enough, Sir, to suggest to Government officially that in future it might be much simpler if this Council could be given the respon- sibility of deciding upon any changes in the charges for multi-storey car parks, particularly since we are responsible for their management after completion?

CHAIRMAN:-Sir, I do not think I would be willing to do that. The Select Committee and the Council has a certain responsibility, but the main responsibility for originating the proposals lies with the Finance Branch of the Colonial Secretariat. We can make our view- point clear and that appears to be the limit of the Council's respon- sibility.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Thank you very much.

MR. B. A. BERNACCHI asked the following question:·

(a) Was this Council consulted by the Traffic Department of the Police Force before the pedestrian crossing over Connaught Road to the City Hall was closed?

(b) Can this Council be given any indication as to why it

has been closed and how long it will be closed?

(c) Is it a fact that the pedestrian crossing was originally placed in that position to give easy access to the main door of the High Block of the City Hall?

1962 — Page 143

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