1958 — Page 88

Urban Council Proceedings 市政局議事錄 All AI Reviewed

Page 88 of 139

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HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

importance, but none the less, the Council has a large Membership consisting of elected members as well as nominated members, and government should give more attention to its work and activities.

To return to the Car Park, unless the Council is given wider scope of control over it, we cannot do anything to ensure that the Car Park will be fully utilized. Therefore I have much pleasure in seconding Mr. Cheong-Leen's amendment to Mr. Bernacchi's motion.

CHAIRMAN:-The effect of this amendment, that is referring the whole issue back to the Select Committee, will be to delay yet further action on these charges which have already been agreed by members of this Council. I have already pointed out that they will be submitted to the Governor in Council in the very near future. Under the circumstances I see no merit in the amendment to the motion and am not willing to support it.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-On a point of clarification, Mr. Chairman, I am supporting the first part of the motion, that is Mr. Bernacchi's original motion. The second part is an amendment which-

CHAIRMAN:-I am afraid there can only be one motion. There is Mr. Bernacchi's motion and your amended motion which includes Mr. Bernacchi's motion.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-May I say in clarification that my point of view in moving this amendment, I support the first part of the motion, and I think a little while ago you said that you understood that the motion, if amended and passed by this Council, would refer the whole motion as amended back to the Select Committee. Is that correct, sir?

CHAIRMAN:-Mr. Cheong-leen, your motion suggested that the whole issue should be referred back to the Select Committee.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-No sir, I did not.

CHAIRMAN:-Including the question of charges.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-I said that the motion-May I read out the amendment again sir?

CHAIRMAN:-Certainly.

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MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-"and furthermore that the Chairman refer to the relevant Select Committee the question of seeking an enlargement of Council's powers regarding the management of the Central Car Park, particularly with reference to the adjustment or revision of parking charges, in order that Council can carry out its responsibilities more efficiently." In other words it would mean that the amended motion, if passed, would amount to this, that you would discuss with the Officer in Charge along the lines as suggested in the original motion of Mr. Bernacchi and further, the question as raised in my amendment should be referred to the Select Committee and as I have suggested, sir, in the last paragraph when I was moving this motion, that this question of revising the parking fees, the recommendations could very easily have been carried out by administrative measures as soon as possible. The wider question of whether or not the Council should have the power of revising and adjusting fees, that should be referred immediately to Select Committee. And perhaps it would be a little clearer if you read the whole motion together with the amendment.

CHAIRMAN:-Does anybody wish to speak on the motion?

MR. BERNACCHI:-I do intend to exercise my right under Standing Order 12 but it would appear that this is a right which I do not exercise until all other members have spoken.

CHAIRMAN:-That is why I asked whether anybody wished to speak on the amendment. Anybody else? No.

MR. BERNACCHI:-I will then make a general reply which is in effect therefore under Standing Order 12, a speech on the amendment and a reply to my own motion.

May I, sir, say that on the substance of my own motion I would refer you sir to your answer given to me in June to the effect that the regulations were shortly to be submitted to the Governor in Council. You do seem to have used very similar words now in November, so that I feel that an expression of view by this Council in the terms of my motion is called for and I personally fear that without some such expression of view we may by, say, next March, find ourselves again being told that it will soon be laid before the Governor in Council.

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Page 88 of 139 156 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL importance, but none the less, the Council has a large Membership consisting of elected members as well as nominated members, and government should give more attention to its work and activities. To return to the Car Park, unless the Council is given wider scope of control over it, we cannot do anything to ensure that the Car Park will be fully utilized. Therefore I have much pleasure in seconding Mr. Cheong-Leen's amendment to Mr. Bernacchi's motion. CHAIRMAN:-The effect of this amendment, that is referring the whole issue back to the Select Committee, will be to delay yet further action on these charges which have already been agreed by members of this Council. I have already pointed out that they will be submitted to the Governor in Council in the very near future. Under the circumstances I see no merit in the amendment to the motion and am not willing to support it. MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-On a point of clarification, Mr. Chairman, I am supporting the first part of the motion, that is Mr. Bernacchi's original motion. The second part is an amendment which- CHAIRMAN:-I am afraid there can only be one motion. There is Mr. Bernacchi's motion and your amended motion which includes Mr. Bernacchi's motion. MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-May I say in clarification that my point of view in moving this amendment, I support the first part of the motion, and I think a little while ago you said that you understood that the motion, if amended and passed by this Council, would refer the whole motion as amended back to the Select Committee. Is that correct, sir? CHAIRMAN:-Mr. Cheong-leen, your motion suggested that the whole issue should be referred back to the Select Committee. MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-No sir, I did not. CHAIRMAN:-Including the question of charges. MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-I said that the motion-May I read out the amendment again sir? CHAIRMAN:-Certainly. HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL 157 MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-"and furthermore that the Chairman refer to the relevant Select Committee the question of seeking an enlargement of Council's powers regarding the management of the Central Car Park, particularly with reference to the adjustment or revision of parking charges, in order that Council can carry out its responsibilities more efficiently." In other words it would mean that the amended motion, if passed, would amount to this, that you would discuss with the Officer in Charge along the lines as suggested in the original motion of Mr. Bernacchi and further, the question as raised in my amendment should be referred to the Select Committee and as I have suggested, sir, in the last paragraph when I was moving this motion, that this question of revising the parking fees, the recommendations could very easily have been carried out by administrative measures as soon as possible. The wider question of whether or not the Council should have the power of revising and adjusting fees, that should be referred immediately to Select Committee. And perhaps it would be a little clearer if you read the whole motion together with the amendment. CHAIRMAN:-Does anybody wish to speak on the motion? MR. BERNACCHI:-I do intend to exercise my right under Standing Order 12 but it would appear that this is a right which I do not exercise until all other members have spoken. CHAIRMAN:-That is why I asked whether anybody wished to speak on the amendment. Anybody else? No. MR. BERNACCHI:-I will then make a general reply which is in effect therefore under Standing Order 12, a speech on the amendment and a reply to my own motion. May I, sir, say that on the substance of my own motion I would refer you sir to your answer given to me in June to the effect that the regulations were shortly to be submitted to the Governor in Council. You do seem to have used very similar words now in November, so that I feel that an expression of view by this Council in the terms of my motion is called for and I personally fear that without some such expression of view we may by, say, next March, find ourselves again being told that it will soon be laid before the Governor in Council. Page 88 of 139

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Page 88 of 139 Page 88 of 139 156 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL importance, but none the less, the Council has a large Member- ship consisting of elected members as well as nominated members, and government should give more attention to its work and activities. To return to the Car Park, unless the Council is given wider scope of control over it, we cannot do anything to ensure that the Car Park will be fully utilized. Therefore I have much pleasure in seconding Mr. Cheong-Leen's amendment to Mr. Bernacchi's motion. CHAIRMAN:-The effect of this amendment, that is referring the whole issue back to the Select Committee, will be to delay yet further action on these charges which have already been agreed by members of this Council. I have already pointed out that they will be submitted to the Governor in Council in the very near future. Under the circumstances I see no merit in the amendment to the motion and am not willing to support it. MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-On a point of clarification, Mr. Chair- man, I am supporting the first part of the motion, that is Mr. Bernacchi's original motion. The second part is an amendment which- CHAIRMAN :-I am afraid there can only be one motion. There is Mr. Bernacchi's motion and your amended motion which includes Mr. Bernacchi's motion. Mr. Cheong-LEEN :-May I say in clarification that my point of view in moving this amendment, I support the first part of the motion, and I think a little while ago you said that you understood that the motion, if amended and passed by this Council, would refer the whole motion as amended back to the Select Committee. Is that correct, sir? CHAIRMAN :---Mr. Cheong-leen, your motion suggested that the whole issue should be referred back to the Select Committee. MR. CHEONG-LEEN :--No sir, I did not. CHAIRMAN:-Including the question of charges. MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-1 said that the motion-May I read out the amendment again sir? CHAIRMAN :-Certainly. HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL 157 MR. CHEONG-LEEN :—' -"and furthermore that the Chairman refer to the relevant Select Committee the question of seeking an enlargement of Council's powers regarding the management of the Central Car Park, particularly with reference to the adjustment or revision of parking charges, in order that Council can carry out its responsibilities more efficiently." In other words it would mean that the amended motion, if passed, would amount to this, that you would discuss with the Officer in Charge along the lines as suggested in the original motion of Mr. Bernacchi and further, the question as raised in my amendment should be referred to the Select Committee and as I have suggested, sir, in the last paragraph when I was moving this motion, that this question of revising the parking fees, the recommendations could very easily have been carried out by administrative measures as soon as possible. The wider question of whether or not the Council should have the power of revising and adjusting fees, that should be referred immediately to Select Committee. And perhaps it would be a little clearer if you read the whole motion together with the amendment. CHAIRMAN :-Does anybody wish to speak on the motion? MR. BERNACCHI :-I do intend to exercise my right under Standing Order 12 but it would appear that this is a right which I do not exercise until all other members have spoken. CHAIRMAN :-That is why I asked whether any body wished to speak on the amendment. Anybody else? No. MR. BERNACCHI :-I will then make a general reply which is in effect therefore under Standing Order 12, a speech on the amendment and a reply to my own motion. May 1, sir, say that on the substance of my own motion I would refer you sir to your answer given to me in June to the effect that the regulations were shortly to be submitted to the Governor in Council. You do seem to have used very similar words now in November, so that I feel that an expression of view by this Council in the terms of my motion is called for and I personally fear that without some such expression of view we may by, say, next March, find ourselves again being told that it will soon be laid before the Governor in Council.

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Page 88 of 139

156

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

importance, but none the less, the Council has a large Member- ship consisting of elected members as well as nominated members, and government should give more attention to its work and activities.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-On a point of clarification, Mr. Chair- man, I am supporting the first part of the motion, that is Mr. Bernacchi's original motion. The second part is an amendment which-

CHAIRMAN :-I am afraid there can only be one motion. There is Mr. Bernacchi's motion and your amended motion which includes Mr. Bernacchi's motion.

Mr. Cheong-LEEN :-May I say in clarification that my point of view in moving this amendment, I support the first part of the motion, and I think a little while ago you said that you understood that the motion, if amended and passed by this Council, would refer the whole motion as amended back to the Select Committee. Is that correct, sir?

CHAIRMAN :---Mr. Cheong-leen, your motion suggested that the whole issue should be referred back to the Select Committee.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN :--No sir, I did not.

CHAIRMAN:-Including the question of charges.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-1 said that the motion-May I read out the amendment again sir?

CHAIRMAN :-Certainly.

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157

MR. CHEONG-LEEN :—'

-"and furthermore that the Chairman refer to the relevant Select Committee the question of seeking an enlargement of Council's powers regarding the management of the Central Car Park, particularly with reference to the adjustment or revision of parking charges, in order that Council can carry out its responsibilities more efficiently." In other words it would mean that the amended motion, if passed, would amount to this, that you would discuss with the Officer in Charge along the lines as suggested in the original motion of Mr. Bernacchi and further, the question as raised in my amendment should be referred to the Select Committee and as I have suggested, sir, in the last paragraph when I was moving this motion, that this question of revising the parking fees, the recommendations could very easily have been carried out by administrative measures as soon as possible. The wider question of whether or not the Council should have the power of revising and adjusting fees, that should be referred immediately to Select Committee. And perhaps it would be a little clearer if you read the whole motion together with the amendment.

CHAIRMAN :-Does anybody wish to speak on the motion?

MR. BERNACCHI :-I do intend to exercise my right under Standing Order 12 but it would appear that this is a right which I do not exercise until all other members have spoken.

CHAIRMAN :-That is why I asked whether any body wished

to speak on the amendment. Anybody else? No.

MR. BERNACCHI :-I will then make a general reply which is in effect therefore under Standing Order 12, a speech on the amendment and a reply to my own motion.

May 1, sir, say that on the substance of my own motion I would refer you sir to your answer given to me in June to the effect that the regulations were shortly to be submitted to the Governor in Council. You do seem to have used very similar words now in November, so that I feel that an expression of view by this Council in the terms of my motion is called for and I personally fear that without some such expression of view we may by, say, next March, find ourselves again being told that it will soon be laid before the Governor in Council.

1958 — Page 88

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