HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
not mean that they must pay through the nose for not behaving like savages. To those who are tourist-conscious in this matter, it is worth mentioning in this debate that the Chinese Permanent Cemetery is one of the tourist attractions in this Colony. The Special Committee which runs the Chinese Permanent Cemeteries deserves some public recognition for what they have done in the past. But the problem of operating public cemeteries for so large a section of the Chinese population is far too big and complex for it to undertake, and requires re-consideration. Mr. Chairman, if we persist in allowing private groups to carry on the job it is like turning conservancy back to the contractor system. Admittedly most of the irregularities and black market activities that go on can be laid squarely at the doors of undertakers and funeral home operators. But, Mr. Chairman, it is time that the responsibility for these new cemeteries should be vested with Government. The most logical body in my opinion is the Urban Services Department which has the experience and machinery to do it under the direction of this Council.
I want to make clear, Mr. Chairman, that the scheme envisaged in Mr. Sales' Motion will not be subsidized by public funds, but the price of each grave site will be uniform and equitable for every one concerned. When the cemetery is formed the religious and military sections will be handed to these organizations to administer.
This method will have the virtue of ensuring that the price of each grave space will be fair and consistent. Under the present system certain sections of the community are over-charged because they have to pay excessive rates to bury their relatives or friends in cemeteries which they are obliged to use. Most people are reluctant to bury their beloved ones in outlying areas near the China border because of the difficulties in paying their traditional respects in these restricted zones. Mr. Chairman, much fuss has been made in the past about the shortage of land for cemeteries in the Colony. When the new Colonial Cemetery was first discussed under the previous policy that all future cemeteries must be sited in the New Territories, it was found that great inconvenience would be caused if it was not sited on the Island of Hong Kong, the Select Committee was agreeably surprised that no difficulty was in fact encountered in finding land in Cape Collinson for this purpose. We are told now that it can not only accommodate the new Colonial Cemetery but various other categories as well. Some of these sections you will see, Mr. Chairman, will be able to serve the community for at least 50 years. If more land is required for this purpose I am sure there would be no difficulty in obtaining another 50 acres not far from the urban area in the New Territories.
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
Mr. Chairman, time does not permit me to mention all the points of this Motion. These details may have to be resolved in Select Committee, but we feel the main and the most important point is for the Council to approve the resolution in principle now. With these remarks, Mr. Chairman, I have much pleasure in seconding Mr. Sales' Motion now before Council.
CHAIRMAN :-I do not wish to oppose the motion, but I feel it incumbent on me to point out that the decision of Government to alienate areas at Cape Collinson for private cemeteries was approved by the Select Committee in 1956 and apparently reaffirmed in August 1957.
An undertaking of the magnitude contemplated by Mr. Sales warrants very careful consideration indeed, implying, as it does, a reversal of previous policy and I am not really satisfied in my own mind that there has been sufficient discussion both within the Select Committee and also with interested groups. I would therefore urge the Select Committee, to which this motion, if passed, will be referred, to consider the matter most carefully in all its aspects and to appreciate the very considerable capital outlay, which will not necessarily be approved by Government.
DR. P. F. Woo:-My colleagues and I welcome Mr. Sales' motion particularly in the form he has worded it. Mr. Sales is no doubt quite aware of the existing conditions of burial facilities in the Colony to-day. His motion if adopted and eventually put into effect would ease the minds of the many Chinese who for generations have closely observed Chinese laws and customs and have always considered the responsibility of providing a respectable resting place for their forefathers as the first order in the family. Traditionally, the Chinese feel that they have obligations towards ancestral worship, and filial sons and daughters pay respects to their ancestors at least twice a year in the Ching Ming and Chung Yeung festivals. It is essential therefore that burial places should be permanent.
Mr. Sales in his motion has suggested that a fair and equitable charge for each burial plot be fixed in the proposed new permanent cemetery. A reasonable fee imposed by this Council will give the
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Page 47 of 139
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Page 47 of 139
74
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
not mean that they must pay through the nose for not behaving like savages. To those who are tourist-conscious in this matter, it is worth mentioning in this debate that the Chinese Permanent Cemetery is one of the tourist attractions in this Colony. The Special Committee which runs the Chinese Permanent Cemeteries deserves some public recognition for what they have done in the past. But the problem of operating public cemeteries for so large a section of the Chinese population is far too big and complex for it to undertake, and requires re-consideration. Mr. Chairman, if we persist in allowing private groups to carry on the job it is like turning conservancy back to the contractor system. Admittedly most of the irregularities and black market activities that go on can be laid squarely at the doors of undertakers and funeral home operators. But, Mr. Chairman, it is time that the responsibility for these new cemeteries should be vested with Government. The most logical body in my opinion is the Urban Services Department which has the experience and machinery to do it under the direction of this Council.
I want to make clear, Mr. Chairman, that the scheme envisaged in Mr. Sales' Motion will not be subsidized by public funds, but the price of each grave site will be uniform and equitable for every one concerned. When the cemetery is formed the religious and military sections will be handed to these organizations to adminis-
ter.
This method will have the virtue of ensuring that the price of each grave space will be fair and consistent. Under the present system certain sections of the community are over-charged because they have to pay excessive rates to bury their relatives or friends in cemeteries which they are obliged to use. Most people are reluctant to bury their beloved ones in outlying areas near the China border because of the difficulties in paying their traditional respects in these restricted zones. Mr. Chairman, much fuss has been made in the past about the shortage of land for cemeteries in the Colony. When the new Colonial Cemetery was first dis- cussed under the previous policy that all future cemeteries must be sited in the New Territories, it was found that great incon- venience would be caused if it was not sited on the Island of Hong Kong, the Select Committee was agreeably surprised that no difficulty was in fact encountered in finding land in Cape Collinson for this purpose. We are told now that it can not only accom- modate the new Colonial Cemetery but various other categories as well. Some of these sections you will see, Mr. Chairman, will be able to serve the community for at least 50 years. If more land
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
75
is required for this purpose I am sure there would be no difficulty in obtaining another 50 acres not far from the urban area in the New Territories.
Mr. Chairman, time does not permit me to mention all the points of this Motion. These details may have to be resolved in Select Committee, but we feel the main and the most important point is for the Council to approve the resolution in principle now. With these remarks, Mr. Chairman, I have much pleasure in seconding Mr. Sales' Motion now before Council.
CHAIRMAN :-I do not wish to oppose the motion, but I feel it incumbent on me to point out that the decision of Government to alienate areas at Cape Collinson for private cemeteries was approved by the Select Committee in 1956 and apparently reaffirmed in August 1957.
An undertaking of the magnitude contemplated by Mr. Sales warrants very careful consideration indeed, implying, as it does, a reversal of previous policy and I am not really satisfied in my own mind that there has been sufficient discussion both within the Select Committee and also with interested groups. I would therefore urge the Select Committee, to which this motion, if passed, will be referred, to consider the matter most carefully in all its aspects and to appreciate the very considerable capital out- lay, which will not necessarily be approved by Government.
DR. P. F. Woo:-My colleagues and I welcome Mr. Sales' motion particularly in the form he has worded it. Mr. Sales is no doubt quite aware of the existing conditions of burial facilities in the Colony to-day. His motion if adopted and eventually put into effect would ease the minds of the many Chinese who for generations have closely observed Chinese laws and customs and have always considered the responsibility of providing a respect- able resting place for their forefathers as the first order in the family. Traditionally, the Chinese feel that they have obligations towards ancestral worship, and filial sons and daughters pay respects to their ancestors at least twice a year in the Ching Ming and Chung Yeung festivals. It is essential therefore that burial places should be permanent.
Mr. Sales in his motion has suggested that a fair and equitable charge for each burial plot be fixed in the proposed new permanent cemetery. A reasonable fee imposed by this Council will give the
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