HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
It is therefore only reasonable that the other Licensing Select Committees should, wherever possible and practicable, streamline their procedure of issuing licences along the lines used by the Restaurants, Food Canteens and Cafes (Licensing) Select Committee so that greater efficiency in the matter of licences may result.
DR. R. H. S. LEE:- Mr. Chairman, from my experience in the Restaurants, Food Canteens and Cafes (Licensing) Select Committee and the Disease Prevention (Food and Drinks) Select Committee not mentioned by Dr. Woo in his motion, I found Dr. Woo's suggestion as embodied in today's Motion a practical one and a contribution towards improving the licensing machinery of these two Select Committees.
Indeed then, Mr. Chairman, the arrangement was that the applicant's file was circulated to the Delegated Member for approval of the conditions and requirements prior to the granting of the licence, and very frequently many months elapsed between these stages before a premises was licensed. Unless a Delegated Member desired to call for the file, which was seldom if ever in actual practice, that was the end of the duty of the Delegated Member in respect to issuing that particular licence. In the case of restaurants and rarely cafes, it was not an unusual practice for an applicant to apply for a licence in the planning stage of the building. When the Delegated Member went to satisfy himself in respect to the conditions and requirements of the application he found either a non-existent premises or an unfinished one.
Moreover from our experience of several cases where hardship and perhaps even injustice had been inflicted on the applicant, a sub-committee appointed to streamline the licensing procedure of the cafes and restaurants had adopted Dr. Woo's suggestion of having the file sent to the Secretary for approval of the conditions and requirements in the first instance and then the Delegated Member, after this had been complied with, in other words just prior to the stage of issuing the licence, (although in practice this does not cut down to any extent the time taken). The success or failure of the scheme, of course, undoubtedly rests with the enthusiasm of the individual Councillor. With an observant, experienced and energetic Delegated Member, not only the duty of the Council is properly discharged, but the public interest is also adequately served.
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
Far too frequently, I regret to say Mr. Chairman, the staff tend to regard the duties of a Delegated Member as a rubber stamp. I cannot refute this erroneous conception more strongly than to recite the many instances of Councillors sending files back for queries, more investigation and discussion by the relevant Select Committee.
Mr. Chairman, how well this revised procedure will work in other Select Committees, I am not prepared to say. As Chairman of the two aforementioned Select Committees I can vouch for the fact that it works extremely well, but let me remind members that it does impose extra work for the Delegated Member concerned to check for himself the conditions and requirements, by visits to see that they are complied with. In this connexion I would invite the attention of the Roast Meat Shops Select Committee that the illegal practice of displaying roast meat outside the premises is still very prevalent in Shamshuipo and other parts of the Colony.
With these remarks, Mr. Chairman, I support Dr. Woo's motion in principle, but I feel that its adoption in other Licensing Select Committees must rest with the members concerned because they are in a position to judge whether such a revision in the procedure of circulating files does in fact improve the quality of their work or not.
MR. B. A. BERNACCHI :~,- As Dr. Lee has already indicated the Reform Club Members of this Council will support Dr. Woo's motion.
Dr. Lee in his own speech, however, does not make clear that much of the credit for the reorganization that Dr. Woo is commending in his Motion is due to Dr. Lee himself as Chairman of the Restaurants, Food Canteens and Cafes (Licensing) Select Committee. There is a matter also that arises out of the Motion which would be convenient to mention now and that is the importance of the Delegated Member. I cannot stress too strongly that the Delegated Member is called upon to exercise the discretion of the whole Council in matters that are more or less of routine, but nevertheless matters which usually affect the private individual and which therefore require every consideration and attention. An attempt has recently been made by certain public officers connected with the Council, particularly in the matter of hawkers licensing, to force the Delegated Member into the position of a "rubber stamp" by the making of a specific recommendation
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HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
It is therefore only reasonable that the other Licensing Select Committees should, wherever possible and practicable, streamline their procedure of issuing licences along the lines used by the Restaurants, Food Canteens and Cafes (Licensing) Select Com- mittee so that greater efficiency in the matter of licences may result.
DR. R. H. S. LEE:-Mr. Chairman, from my experience in the Restaurants, Food Canteens and Cafes (Licensing) Select Committee and the Disease Prevention (Food and Drinks) Select Committee not mentioned by Dr. Woo in his motion, I found Dr. Woo's suggestion as embodied in today's Motion a practical one and a contribution towards improving the licensing machinery of these two Select Committees.
Indeed then, Mr. Chairman, the arrangement was that the applicant's file was circulated to the Delegated Member for approval of the conditions and requirements prior to the granting of the licence, and very frequently many months elapsed between these stages before a premises was licensed. Unless a Delegated Member desired to call for the file, which was seldom if ever in actual practice, that was the end of the duty of the Delegated Member in respect to issuing that particular licence. In the case of restaurants and rarely cafes, it was not an unusual practice for an applicant to apply for a licence in the planning stage of the building. When the Delegated Member went to satisfy himself in respect to the conditions and requirements of the application he found either a non-existent premises or an unfinished one.
Moreover from our experience of several cases where hardship and perhaps even injustice had been inflicted on the applicant, a sub-committee appointed to streamline the licensing procedure of the cafes and restaurants had adopted Dr. Woo's suggestion of having the file sent to the Secretary for approval of the conditions and requirements in the first instance and then the Delegated Member, after this had been complied with, in other words just prior to the stage of issuing the licence, (although in practice this does not cut down to any extent the time taken). The success or failure of the scheme, of course, undoubtedly rests with the enthusiasm of the individual Councillor. With an observant, experienced and energetic Delegated Member, not only the duty of the Council is properly discharged, but the public interest is also adequately served.
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
145
Far too frequently, I regret to say Mr. Chairman, the staff tend to regard the duties of a Delegated Member as a rubber stamp. I cannot refute this erroneous conception more strongly than to recite the many instances of Councillors sending files back for queries, more investigation and discussion by the relevant Select Committee.
Mr. Chairman, how well this revised procedure will work in other Select Committees, I am not prepared to say. As Chairman of the two aforementioned Select Committees I can vouch for the fact that it works extremely well, but let me remind members that it does impose extra work for the Delegated Member concerned to check for himself the conditions and requirements, by visits to see that they are complied with. In this connexion I would invite the attention of the Roast Meat Shops Select Committee that the illegal practice of displaying roast meat outside the premises is still very prevalent in Shamshuipo and other parts of the Colony.
With these remarks, Mr. Chairman, I support Dr. Woo's motion in principle, but I feel that its adoption in other Licensing Select Committees must rest with the members concerned because they are in a position to judge whether such a revision in the procedure of circulating files does in fact improve the quality of their work or not.
MR. B. A. BERNACCHI :~, -As Dr. Lee has already indicated the Reform Club Members of this Council will support Dr. Woo's motion.
Dr. Lee in his own speech, however, does not make clear that much of the credit for the reorganization that Dr. Woo is com- mending in his Motion is due to Dr. Lee himself as Chairman of the Restaurants, Food Canteens and Cafes (Licensing) Select Committee. There is a matter also that arises out of the Motion which would be convenient to mention now and that is the im- portance of the Delegated Member. I cannot stress too strongly that the Delegated Member is called upon to exercise the discre- tion of the whole Council in matters that are more or less of routine, but nevertheless matters which usually affect the private individual and which therefore require every consideration and attention. An attempt has recently been made by certain public officers connected with the Council, particularly in the matter of hawkers licensing, to force the Delegated Member into the position of a "rubber stamp" by the making of a specific recommendation
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