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MR. R. C. LEE :-Mr. Chairman, I am not a yes man, nevertheless I agree with you that conservancy is a limited service provided only for those who require it. With increasing development this service will be less and less required. It is unlike scavenging which is a service provided for the whole of the community. I consider that the income from conservancy charges should be sufficient to meet its operating cost. If it is to be run at a loss, it must mean that it has to be subsidized by all taxpayers for the benefit of a section of the community. This should be avoided. I am not suggesting that it should be operated at a profit. I am glad to hear the assurance given by you, Sir, that the charges would not be any higher than what is absolutely necessary for the effective maintenance of the service.
It has been suggested that any increase in conservancy charges would cause the cost of living to rise. I regret that I am unable to agree to the logic of such argument. It has also been suggested that the Urban Council should be able to raise revenue for its expenditure and that charges such as that for conservancy should be viewed with the general overall picture. I fear that the ultimate result of such a suggestion, if accepted, can only mean increased burden for the taxpayers.
I heard medical fees mentioned a short while ago. Professional fees have been greatly increased since the Pacific war. No one grumbles because only people requiring such services are charged. What would happen if taxpayers are asked to subsidize such charges?
The proposed increase for domestic premises works out to be $1.67 per month per floor. I consider it to be reasonable, and I therefore support the motion.
MR. KWOK CHAN :— Mr. Chairman, allow me to express my opinion on the subject of conservancy which is now before Council for discussion.
As I understand it conservancy was taken over from private contractors by the Sanitary Department of the Urban Council, in 1940. The fees charged were related to the cost of the service: the argument being that since the service was performed primarily for the benefit of those premises without water-borne sanitation it must be paid for by the occupiers of those premises, and not met from general revenue. This view has always prevailed.
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In 1949, the fees were raised from the pre-war rate of $10 per annum per domestic floor to $40 per annum because post-war costs had risen in proportion.
It has been recognized as a basic principle that in cases of all charges for specific services supplied by Government, not for the general public, but for a limited section of the community, revenue must be brought into line with expenditure, so that the taxpayers' money can be devoted to services for the benefit of a much wider section of the community.
The cost of conservancy rose sharply in 1955/56 as a result of shorter working hours and extra staff. And in 1956/57 it is estimated that expenditure will exceed revenue by $1.2 million. Government therefore requested the Urban Services Department to consider revision of the existing charges in order to close this gap. Costs were examined in great detail, and it was estimated that by increasing the charges as now proposed revenue and expenditure would be brought approximately into line.
Sir, it has been the usual practice adopted by this Council in dealing with any matter of a particular nature to refer it to a specialized select committee for careful consideration and to formulate recommendations to the whole Council. Recommendations submitted by a select committee, which is recognized as the body of experts on specialized subjects, are generally considered favourably by the Committee of the Whole.
Placing my usual reliance on the wise counsel of the Select Committee I have no doubt that the pros and cons of the issue had been carefully studied before a decision was reached. Moreover, it is my own opinion that every matter has to be looked at from all angles. In this case we must bear in mind that apart from many factors that prompted the Select Committee to reach their decision, we have to think of the lot of those who are undertaking to provide this service to that section of the community which continues to require it. Those whose livelihood depends so much on this none too pleasant job have to work from midnight to the early hours of the morning while the rest of the city reposes in deep slumber, and to climb up and down pitch dark staircases bearing heavy and repulsive loads; also at times they have to brave inclement weather going about their work.
Page 27 of 35
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E
il
258
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
but
MR. R. C. LEE :-Mr. Chairman, I am not a yes man, nevertheless I agree with you that conservancy is a limited service provided only for those who require it. With increasing develop- ment this service will be less and less required. It is unlike scavenging which is a service provided for the whole of the com- munity. I consider that the income from conservancy charges should be sufficient to meet its operating cost. If it is to be run at a loss, it must mean that it has to be subsidized by all taxpayers for the benefit of a section of the community. This should be avoided. I am not suggesting that it should be operated at a profit. I am glad to hear the assurance given by you, Sir, that the charges would not be any higher than what is absolutely necessary for the effective maintenance of the service.
It has been suggested that any increase in conservancy charges would cause the cost of living to rise. I regret that I am unable to agree to the logic of such argument. It has also been suggested that the Urban Council should be able to raise revenue for its expenditure and that charges such as that for conservancy should be viewed with the general overall picture. I fear that the ultimate result of such a suggestion, if accepted, can only mean increased burden for the taxpayers.
I heard medical fees mentioned a short while ago. Pro- fessional fees have been greatly increased since the Pacific war. No one grumbles because only people requiring such services are charged. What would happen if taxpayers are asked to subsidize such charges?
The proposed increase for domestic premises works out to be $1.67 per month per floor. I consider it to be reasonable, and I therefore support the motion.
MR. KWOK CHAN :— -Mr. Chairman, allow me to express my opinion on the subject of conservancy which is now before Council for discussion.
As I understand it conservancy was taken over from private contractors by the Sanitary Department of the Urban Council, in 1940. The fees charged were related to the cost of the service: the argument being that since the service was performed primarily for the benefit of those premises without water-borne
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
259
sanitation it must be paid for by the occupiers of those premises,
vailed.
and not met from general revenue. This view has always pre- In 1949, the fees were raised from the pre-war rate of $10 per annum per domestic floor to $40 per annum because post-war costs had risen in proportion.
It has been recognized as a basic principle that in cases of all charges for specific services supplied by Government, not for the general public, but for a limited section of the community, revenue must be brought into line with expenditure, so that the taxpayers' money can be devoted to services for the benefit of a much wider section of the community.
The cost of conservancy rose sharply in 1955/56 as a result of shorter working hours and extra staff. And in 1956/57 it is estimated that expenditure will exceed revenue by $1.2 million. Government therefore requested the Urban Services Departmeni to consider revision of the existing charges in order to close this gap. Costs were examined in great detail, and it was estimated that by increasing the charges as now proposed revenue and ex- penditure would be brought approximately into line.
Sir, it has been the usual practice adopted by this Council in dealing with any matter of a particular nature to refer it to a specialized select committee for careful consideration and to formulate recommendations to the whole Council. Recommenda- tions submitted by a select committee, which is recognized as the body of experts on specialized subjects, are generally considered favourably by the Committee of the Whole.
Placing my usual reliance on the wise counsel of the Select Committee I have no doubt that the pros and cons of the issue had been carefully studied before a decision was reached. More- over, it is my own opinion that every matter has to be looked at from all angles. In this case we must bear in mind that apart from many factors that prompted the Select Committee to reach their decision, we have to think of the lot of those who are under- taking to provide this service to that section of the community which continues to require it. Those whose livelihood depends so much on this none too pleasant job have to work from midnight to the early hours of the morning while the rest of the city reposes in deep slumber, and to climb up and down pitch dark staircases bearing heavy and repulsive loads; also at times they have to brave inclement weather going about their work.
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