1941-09-24 — Page 21

Wednesday,

HONGKONG TELEGRAPH

September 24, 1941,

PWD EMPLOYEES GIVE EVIDENCE AT K SHOES

THIS MORNING'S A.R.P. INQUIRY

FROM PAGE ONE

also checks the number of workmen himself.

When does ho do that?--I count the workmen in the morning and afternoon, and he does that in the marning

Then he has to rely on your In formation as to the afternoon work- men, len't it? Yes.

Second Count

And if you were a dishonest man I do not suggest that you can put down more workmen than are actually employed?-It is possible, but after I have counted the work- men, a man from Kin Lee also counts them.

Which man from Kin Lee?-Kwong Cheung,

Does he also work in the Hunghom offee? He does, and he goes round

all the sites.

to

The Commissioners have visited this office at Hunghom and found it consists

of a very small hut with practically no furniture in it at all Yes.

And when we went there--it was last Saturday there was not a soul there. That I don't know.

i am telling you. Anybody could have walked in from the road as we

did and take away any books they found there-But” the books wore Jocket up.

At any rate they could have been got in there? It is possible.

I am telling you this beenuse statement has been made

to Commission that the foremen very seldom go to the office. The foremen works. spend all their time at the We only go to the office after, we have finished our duties and make nutes in the book.

And when you did go there you spend most of your time in gambling. that is not true, of course, is It? That is not true.

You have never seen any gambling In the office?--I have never seen such matters,

on which I sign or initial, and that particular receipt would be handed over to the store for dynamites,

Who la in charge of that store?- There was a watchman.

What is his name?-I don't know. Procedure of fesue So that if the Kin Lee man comes to you and asks you for 500 sticks of dynamite you issue him with that quantity from the dynamite store, is that correct? That was not the procedure, What

was the procedure, that is wirat we want to get at.I would read the paper and if I had any doubt about that I would not issue any

then write it down on a piece of paper and hand it to the Govern- ment foreman on duty at the time.

Did you ever address any paper to Lo Ilok-pult--No, I

I did not put the name of any foreinan on the paper. put only the quantity of dynamite required, the tunnel site and the number of holes for blasting,

Having signed the paper, you giva it to the Government foremen on duty?----Yes.

would then examine the place to see would go from one site to the other how deep are the holes and how where it needs immediate attention. much dynamite is required. I would

Instructions Left also examine the quality of the stones to be blasted. Having checked these-Or when there is some danger.

How many where there is blasting? and deciding how much dynamite is required I would then sign my name on each item on the top of the paper.

Ten

Years' Experience

Are you a blasting expert?—I have experience in blasting.

How many years' experience? Over 10 years.

ing to be danger?-I would know How do you know that there is go- that because the one who had Just gone off duty would leave instruc- tions.

And therefore you had to go from one site to another if your presence was needed?-Yes.

Do you know what he does with It?-le would then go and check the quantity required by mensuring the

But if your predecessor had left no depth of the holes and the number. men blasting experience? That the other sites ut night?-Even so, it And have any of the other fore- Instructions to you, you did not visit Afier having checked them and find-don't know.

would be my duty to go to all sites. ing they are correct he would then When

I know this is your duty but I am en you get this dynamite you write out Government order and write in the order and then where suggesting would then initial or hand it to the contraclor who would Is the order 'taken to-To the Whang that you did not do it?-

says 607

I have to sign the at- tendance book as to what hour I was in such and such a tunnel and such und such a place.

Suppose you had no doubt what soever?-I sign on that note so that the bearer would take it away to the store for the issue of the dynamite.

So the Kin Lee man would take it the watchman of the dynamite to the

Again,

If you, the watchman and the Kin Lee man were dishonest, there would be nothing to prevent the watchman giving him 1,000 sticks

of dynamite Instead of 500?—But the man who receives this quantity of dynamite must produce them to us for examination before using.

Produced For Checking Produce to you? To the man who signs or approves the issue. Sup- posing it I had signed that note, it would be produced to me for check-

Ing.

send, foreman for the dynamite from the depot, where there is a man in charge.

Then the dynamite and explosives eventually arrive at the site? Yes,

On Night Shift Has there been any occasion when you left duty at 6 p.m. that there: was some unused dynamite in hand? Never.

What about the night shifts? I finished duty. know nothing after 6. p.m. when

I

Do you estimate the amount of dynamite required for 24 hours work, day and night?-I only extimate the quantity during the hours of my duty up to 6 p..

Who estimates for the night shift? The Government foreman on night

works it out.

So,

magazine.

What time does the order go to the magazine, four, five or after that in the afternoon? Any time of the day. You check these holes, do you, before you decide the quantity of the explosives to apply for?-Correct.

Are these holes drilled during the day time?-Even when the holes are drilled during the day time, still it would be my,duty to go and check them.

Exact Quantity

And do you do that every night? I visit every tunnel because the works are very dangerous.

Record Of Visits

were on night duty or not?-Yes.

Did you go to every site when you

So that you paid a visit at least once a night to each of these Ave Bites? Yes.

And

You name

And until you check them you do dance not know what quantity of explo- sives you require?-Exactly.

and

cach

and.

would enter your time in the alten- book kept at site? I visited the tunnel Arst, J noted the time and alte And na you do not go on duty until then I would 20 to the after five you could not have sent in office and sign the book, Then, | the requisition before five? The visit another tunnel and return to

magazine Issues dynamite at all the office and so on.

day.

#thorises the Kin Lee man to take

Who is the man who originally au- duy although you are the blasting hours of the the dynamite to you?-The man who expert you only estimate the quantity had charge of the blasting and who of dynamite to be used up to 5 p.m.7 also had charge of the drilling gave-Yes, this order.

Denies "Squeeze" Report A report has been made by the No. I foreman that the people suy that' you and other foremen are in the hubit of taking squeeze, llave you ever heard that before?-1 have never heard of that.

Th

is

the

I say? Untrue...

had

Who is he?--Io.Kwat-shum.

The same man you have been talk

about?--Yes.

After that the quantity required for night work would be estimated by a non-expert, an ordinary Gov. ernment foreman. Is that right? Yes,

dishonest man, that you were a dis- I am suggesting that If Ho was a honest man and also the watchman

Opportunity For Dishonesty

And on his estimate, the explosives dishonest man, there is nothing tonight blasting? Since I have never at the dynamite store was also a

are issued to the sub-contractor for prevent the three of you working in

been on night duty I can't speak as collusion and robbing the Govern- to the procedure. ment of dynamite?-But there was n No. 1 who would cheek uit this.

That is Mr George Tsung-Yes. Suppose if he also were dishonest, the same thing would also apply? This thing could never be done...

Never Any Surplus

32

fixed

cannot sny.

no

However, your requisition for the dynamite went to the magazine after five o'clock in the afternoon, is that correct? Certainly it would be after Ave. After I had started my duty.

Do you know how many watchmen are on duty at the magazine?-Two inen go by turn at the magazine.

One by day and one by

by night? No. These two men are supposed to be on duty at the magazine for all the 24 hours of the day.

But they can't keep awake for 24 hours, can they? They must have rest some time? They make their own arrangements.

done.

Then the attendance book is kept at the office at Hunghom?-Yes.

So you will start off, we will say. from site No. 1-No, I started from No. 6.

Where is that?-Just at the office, Hunghom.

How long would you spend in there? Say 40 minutes.

Then you would go to the office, sign the attendance book and from there you would go to site No. 4? Yes but sites 3 and 4 are adjacent to each other. Site No. 4 is just outside the office.

Then you go back to the office and sign the book again. Correct. Then you go to site No. 3.-Yes. Stay there 40 minutes?-Ycs. Go back to the office and sign the attendance boot? Yea

Far From Office

How do you get from site to sito at bool at one the sites and sign the

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Assuming that that is so, would you agree that if that Goverrunent

Well then having got the dynamite foreman were a distortest man, he could get explosives from the store you proceeded to do the blasting, did far in excess of the amount actually you? Yes. I would supervise the required and then sell it to outsiders? myself and sellist with dynamite It is nol true, Is it?-1 have never

that it properly Am I correct in saying that the Are you allowed to blast at any heard of such n thing.

man in charge of blasting is 11o Kwal-time of the day or are the

And then from site No. 3 you go It not true, I

times

Inspection Of Sites to site No. 27-After having vlaited shum. The Kin Lee man Would I be

would restricted?-Any time when the hole I be correct to say that have at the end of the day an un- is ready.

On each of the five sites?-Cer-site No. 3 I would go to No. 1 and 311 the work at the Kowloon funnels

tainly. I must examine them before No. 2. These sites are far away from Is supervised by Chinese foremen explosives? The issue of the day

used surplus of dynamite and other And at night also?-There are

I allow them to go on with the the office and i would not then more than $2.50 a day? always used up, never any surplus. drawing

hours.

Blasting What

record these two Yes, but Mr Campbell also

your salary from Kin Never siner the Kowloon tunnels Lee?-$1.50 a day,

so that I sign only charge of

night? When I go on duty after five work.

started has this man Ho ever had an

once in

the book. But Mr Campbell has told us that unused surplus at the end of the from sub-contractors?-No, po.

Have you received any presents the foreman preceding my duty You are now in the office after he had so much to do both in Hong day, is that what you say? That I

would give Instructions and leave signing the attendance book for site kong and Kowloon he had not the don't know.

So at $1.50 a day you arc the word behind or make a noto as te No. 3.-Hoving visited No, 3 I would time to supervise and had to rely

blasting expert for ARP. tunnels

which site blasting was to be carried go back to the office and sign in on you? He did go to these sites

that have cost now $800,000?—I don't out on. and if there is anything we were re-

know how much has beent spent.

the attendance book my time for Am I correct in saying that at visiting No. 2. quired to do specially he would give

But whatever was spent, you are night time blasting is only done at So would sign the attendance us instructions.

the blasting at $1.60 a day?- one site at a time?-One after the book as having visited No. 2 when

expert The

I am only responsible during the remains that for all prae-

hours of my duty, fact

other.

you had never done so. Is that it? tical purposes this work which Kin

Will it take place more than one

That so. I would sign before I Guarding Against Squeeze supposed perform is super-

at a time?-Not often that. Only would visit No. 2 because the signing vised by Chinese foremen?--Yes,

Who is the night blasting expert? one at a time because I cannot divide book would give the indication to explosives? There was never any correctness of which you know You know of course that Kin Lee nection with ARP. tunnels in Kow-ment foremen to look after it,

floing other class of work not in con--It is the duty of the three Govern-myself into two and supervise blast-people to know where I was if they surplus left over after the night shift. nothing about?I believe them to sub-contracted practically all this!

ing at two places Bla! loon?-I don't know.

want me. I sign and then I go to plosives required for the shift.

We only demand the amount of ex-|be correct before 1 algn. work. Buch or to Ah Ding? Correct.

Is there

At no me either in the day or the No. 2 site. no blasting expert at So that if you and the other Chin- P.W.Dcnow Me Buchanan, the night?--I don't know.

night was blasting operations carried

And having gone to the No. 2 sile

Left In Office Accountant-Storekeeper? — There is no Kin Lee blasting

out simultaneously?

how long would you spend there?~~ ?-Exactly,

Mathematical Calculations. You would then send them to Mr expert

Stone Encountered present at night, is there?-

Alse about 40 minutes.

Walked Or Took Bus

So it was good mathematical cal-Campbell, would you not?-No.

What would happen to this docu- culations that you never had even ment?-Having signed, I left And how did you get from the one ounce left over?-Certainly, be-behind in the office.

Lee is

to

had an

It is possible that he would have

unused surplus? That I

don't know.

Selling Outside And there is nothing to prevent him from selling this unused surplus to fishermen? That I don't know.

Nor to other contractors who were

eso foremen were dishonest men you Yes. could work in conjunction with these sub-contractors and charge the Goverment too much? That is so, but I never did. such a thing.

so, I am mying that it is possible to be dont-Yes.

x

Mr Bellamy to Witness: The work goes on for 24 hours a day?—Yes,

You work eight hours day?- Yes.

There is always Government foreman looking after the Govern- ment's interests?-Correct.

#1

ever

Tong

Having dene that, what do you do next?

One of the three Government foremen would then come and check whether I am speaking the truth,

And having verified the fact that you are speaking the truth, how do you get the dynamite?--It would be for the sub-contractor to get the it dynamite.

·

Am I correct in saying that almost

There

to, No. 2,

it

vou

Give children what is made. especially for children

It's a comfort for mothers to know there is a safe Inxative,

I'n:

the suggesting that

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it

afterwards? As for us I understand, You do not know what happened

someone from Kin Lee would take

to the P.W.D.

be sent, 107-It was addressed 1.

To Mr F. T. Tseng7-No. Who would be the man it woul

nobody.

Never Seen Again.

And you never saw this again?--

Information From Govt Never.

In the morning report dated Jur.

of your duties Kin Lee watchman or a Govern-is to make up the morning report, 1041, Site No. 5, 1 see that the

He was, the only man in the office,

The Chairman: One

for the work done?-Yes.

aro 042 sticks of geliginite, us I From whom did you get this in- during that day and 148 detonator

Yes. formation?-Written documents were left behind by

What the Government checking that off before signing ti

mcana dia you have officials.

Left behind whers?-In the Hung- TURN to Back Page, Column hom offee.

By the Government foreman?

The FAMOUS Beer from SEATTLE!

Do you know Mr Campbell?-Yes. In the night time Kin Lee has a Do you know whether elther of foreman who works with one of the 80 per cent of this tunnelling work office to No. 2 site. Did you walk cause we only needed a required these two gentlemen checked Government foremen on duty. "I am-not-suggesting-that-you-did the papers_relating_to_the_issue_of/watch-him, you mean? The has been done-through-soft-ground jitf-Sometimes I would go in a bus amount. Supposing we run short of

explosives? don't know.

Witness was then told by the measuring the depth of the holes and got to such a depth that we are en-

Kin Lee foreman would take part inside?-Before, yes.

and not hard rock like the Hongkong and other times when there was no some explosive, we would do with Chairman to produce in the after- how much dynamite was required.

Now, we have bus I would walk. noon the books in which he had made He has also to see that there is no countering stones almost every time.Between 20 to 25 minutes.

How long did it take you to walk? entries relating to the number of squeeze and that the men are doing such depth? Say site No. 2 tunnel That is so.

the reason And In which tunnel have you got to after No. 2 you would go to No. 1-plosives on the site in the morning that you never find unused ex- workmen employed on each tunnel. the work properly.

Blasting Foreman

No. 65, tunnel No. 2-3. The part What

is the name of that fore of the tunnel at which we are work- another 40 minutes? No. I would

because by that time The next Witness was Ho Kwal-man?-I understand there are several ing is almost all stone.

And you would stay there for Was

the fishermen had got it all?-The blast shur, blasting foreman employed by of them. I don't know their names

stay there for a quarter of an hour

Ing was being watched. Kin Lee,

Ag I have been employed by Kin Lee

Let us talk about the tunnel Then I go back to the office.

because, this has been completed. Certainly untrue.

That suggestion is not true, is it? Nothing to Do With Stores The Chairman: From whom do for only two or three months.

under Whilfield Barracks at Canton Do you have anything to do with you receive your supply of dynamite? But you are the only blasting ex-Road-This is a slie that I have just would walk back again?--Yes.

If there are no buses running you the stores?-Nothing to do with me.)

Witness: From the Government pert and

And it was on these morning y Nothing to do with cement, timber,

duty is from 7 a.m. referred to this statement up to see you sign this book three or four foreman of Kin Lee and was work-about the procedure of payment.

The next witness called was Chang ports that Government paid Kin I foreinen,

to 5 p.m.? Yes.

According to th

Who is the person in the office to

Cheung who said that he was a for the work done?-I know nothing explosives or the issue of any

From Lo Hik-pul?—Not only from of

Laziness, Not Robbery these things? I am only concerned him.

August, $18,854.62 was for explosives times during the night? There was ing on the Kowloon tunnel contract. in the issuing of dynamite for blast foremen and they hand dynamite to squeeze. Why should you mention that tunnel and inspected it. Would ment watchman?-Kin Loc.

There are three Government

You mentioned just now the word on that tunnel,-Yes,

The Commission has been through

watchman. Ing. purposes, but

The other two foremen that word? By squeeze I mean I be corrcet in saying that most of am not concerned me in turn. with the issuing of cement or timber, are L. Lin-shing and Cheng

whether the workmen are lazy or Who issues the drilling steels?-I Will you

tell us the procedure os

the eari don't do that. I don't know

not who to how you get these explosives?-

earth that you have come up-Yes. Issues them,

You don't mean robbery, do you?-- Against there was soft carth und They were issued in First of all, I would go inside all No. The coolies sometimes go to there was no hard rocks to speak of omce? Yes,

Is that attendance book still in the the

day time by some people,

there tunnels and examine how many sleep in the tunnels.

Ball? No. Where we are working But there is somebody in the holes are for blasting and how much

Will you bring it here at 3 o'clock You have no iden at all what beat this moment it is all hard rocks. this afternoon, please? Yes, Government who can vouch for the dynamite is needed. accuracy of

of these

cames of the dynamite and explo- sives that you ordered for the night Where we are working this moment, you very seldom visited these slice

some hard rock but most stores which

Seldom Visited of is soft earth-Well, I say this, Government pays?--I don't know.

shifts?-No.

.... I am going to suggest to you that Foremen. Chairman to witness: You just told

Perhaps I

at all say it is not so.

And this represent the work done am wrong. Did you say all hard rocks. the Commission that you issue ex

that you made out the reques or

When did you start coming to hard

the night before, does it?-The work plosives? Yes.

order for the dynamite and exploread the plan again.

And that you and the other Gov-done both day and night. rocks, two Another

statement has been made

sives for the whole 24 hours?--No.

weeks ago?--I must ernment foremen, at night, spent about that, that the person who is

most of the time gambling with the obtained from the Government fore- So the information you got was Spent On One Tunnel am wrong then, You only nake

Kin Lee foremen in the officeman on duty that nig Bucs explosives to sub-contractors demanded some of these back so that

P.m and the

night?-Correct; requirements Well you know roughly. How myself never do that. he could sell thein?-No such thing,

for the night are done by one of the long ago was it you started to get to You are not on night shift every tell you the advance made in depth And in that information he would three Government foremen in con- this hard rock?About one or two night want you to be quite clear of the tunnel during the night?-He that never happened.

junction with the Kin Lee foreman. months. is that correct?—Yes.

on that. Several months ago, I and would put that down in writing. Well let us call it two months who is Lo?-Lo Pul. 1 were on night duty. You have no idea what becomes of Yes two months ago,

Reade English A Little Government the unused explosives that were ferring to says that the majority of This expenditure that I am re-

foreman.ir

You copy out all this report?-No. ordered for the night?-No.

One one night, and then the other?

I don't have to write or copy. 1 this $10,854.02

was, incurred before We make our arrangements. From Allegation Repeated

merely sign at the bottom.. I am going to suggest to you where two months ago. Not for this tunnel 4 pm to midnight, and from mid When you go to the offled In the

You BO morning you found these things, al- amongst the two of us. Supposing sum has been spent for all the specially took charge of the actual it to one of the Government fore-connected with A.R.P. tunnelling

to Bshermen and other people not tunnels,

that I was to go on duty from 4

And they were made

out by

the blasting and the stores,

men who would go and check it. work in Kowloon. Is that true? I cannot say whether this amount weeks, and then he would do it from And they are all addressed to Mr

For all the tunnels-I think it is. p.m. to 12, I would do it for two Government foreman?--Correct, Did you issue $47,000 worth of After this is done, a man would be don't explosives? That is so.

went to

spent know whether these three for all altes. It was for blosing for Chang Pul-fan, did day duty from B

was for blasting for one site or 12 am to 8.m. And then the explosives from the get the

JG. Campbell?Yes; SAN changed that s Government foremen were always on slie No. 2, that is, Whitfield Barracks.

Can you read English?-A little. But these Government foremon are night duty or did they change to day. Often before, there were a lot of

The Chairman then produced a a.m. to. 4. not experts in drilling and blasting, duty Sp

p.m.

document and asked witness to rend sometimes7-They sometimes

He never did night duty?-When it in English. stones to be blasted. are they? Their experience is not went on day duty also.

Sofia Collapsed he first came to work so good as mine...

Signed Without Check You are the actual blasting fore-Lin-shing, P.W.D. foreman employed only two months ago and apart from He became a big man and never

The next witness called was LI

You only come to this hard rock duty for a fortnight, but never since.

Reading the ddcitment, witness Became A Big Man man and you are the only man there

said: "Kin Lee and company, morn-- Of how many occasions was he who knows the quantity of dynamite The Chairman? Do you get $2.50 struck, most of this tunnel was very did night duty any more?--I think so.

e tunnelling work in Kowloon. this vein of hard rock that 'you! there?--I don't remember.

Ing report, No. 27, dated June 2, 1941. required, isn't it.

1 to 5 H #07-Yes, But there were occasions

HT The Government foremen

soft earth. So soft that some of it He's a No. 1 man?--Yes. unbody up the number of holes. They

who is the No. 1 many tunnels inside No. 2 and each duty? Yes. Chang was employed in neath? Sometimes I would go and only

Witness: Yer

collapsed the other day-There are

Question (Chairman), Having, read Did Chang Tong ever do night this you signed your name whon

under- you Issued explosives?--I second Corract? These

on't know the quantity of dynamite foreman, how many other foremen tunnel is different from the other. explosives only according to what is. written down on a plece of paper.

foremen are

this work only recently two or three check it are thera?Three, including myself. would

the depth

At any

15.up. months ago. Who brought you that paper?

of enc

each The

do you know that one other

two are Lo Hok-pul and of the Tunnels in die No. 2 collapsed

But other times, you algned withs. The fuman

Sman who took charge of the Is it these foremen then who de- What about Lo Daint-He is not so soft?--Yea

hole.asure

Chan Tong

Tang le

on you and Lo and out checking up? Yes. When I am ling to rely blasting,

the other day because the earth was Chang as to the night work? Yes. busy dealing with the times when the quantity to be issued to Whe_a_Kin Lee.man or a

I am

Exnetly, and we get back to this:

Ah Ting for instance?-Yes, he is a sub-contractor. He does not, how- Up to the end of August Govern-ever, get it himself. He would send ment had been charged $17,000 for a foreman, accompanied by a work- explosives in Kowloon? That does man.

not

mo.

Conger of Explosives

for

the

Witness The Only Expert Do you sign the paper. Yet you are the man who has dyramite?-First of all I would write Issued $47,000 worth of explosives down on piece of paper the quan-

to 5 up

That is so, but there was a man' wao | tity of dynamite required and honed most of them went. They were sol alone. This cannot have been. This night to a am. we take turns only rendy made up?--Exactly,

Was Mr Campbell over present when you issued these. explosives?—

I don't know. Never, when I issued them

Was Mr George Tsang, the No: 1 foreman, ever present when you lagued? Yes.

when

dep

depot.

cido

ܗܘ܂

в

know.

་

som

every

We

fortnight.

WIKKELANGAN P W D It is for me to decide Your looking after-driving end-drilling in part of certainly that! And goes by your tuports as to the you are busy and not checking at all. What frihi nome?-Ho would ask me, and They thefunnels. He looks after the needed no

mante

Does ho give you a receipt for the

building

Have

“that scolispred my a number of workmen employed, and You attach your signature to a docu of walls in the tunnels, And so did a lot of other the explosives used and that kind of ment the correctness which you

avor you are the man who decides on, the shift Yes, tonight thorola chere needed ho binating thingy-Even in the daytime were not aware of. You knew JD-

Handed To Foreman- quantity of dynamite required?--Yes

**Daytime place needed no let you want explosives at night, be 80

and night-time? Yes, thing at all of I would sign this net Because we worked right inside the without checking for this reason how do you get them? The foreman And having decided the quantity of the sub-contractor would write it this disqustion of alle No. 2, How did When the morning shift go on duty,

Now, I asked you befɑre we got to tunneling SN would be given receipt reduired, what do you do?—I would a paper and hand it over to me.gå youret from alle to site at night? do liay take over all the summed

amount of explosives you issued to him? I would get a receipt from the foreman and I would hold that re-

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the moment When you are too

I'm not interested in the reason for Gande, Busy you would sign a document the