1941-03-11 — Page 21

Tuesday,

HONGKONG TELEGRAPH

March 11, 1941.

MR FORREST CROSS-EXAMINES WITNESS DEPARTMENT INQUIRY

IN IMMIGRATION

FROM PAGE ONE

paid over in full to the Co- Ionial Treasury,

of the (d) Payments on behalf

Department must be made by

grution Oficer informed me thing bisi afe was full of money to an un- known amount belonging to unknown; persons and that various drawers in werd almBarly full. the office Amounts were pald into, Treasury without adequate supporting detalls recall as to what they represented.

bech

received and paid, to!

the Treasury, after the Ac- In particular an amount of just over Puntant General han sationed $20,000 pald in by the Immigration] himself that the amount in teer for the credit of deposit order and duly authorised by counts although he was admittedly warrant under the hand of Ills unable to state from whom had Excellency the Governor.

It must (e) It is provided, however, that whom it should be

where the clrcumstances are have represented nearly one thousand such that immediate payment different Individuais. Details of the is necessary without allowing serial numbers of Deposit receipts prior reference to the Treasury, issued and brought to account from payment may be made from an time to time in the Treasury dis imprest account granted to the closed gaps whi

ans which were explained by Head of Department.

the Immigration Officer as repre- payments are made on the

receipts Issued In respect of

Such

personal responsibility of the urity other than Hongkong does Imprest holder, and are sub- No detalled statement has, however, Jeet to review later by the been furnished in respect of

receipts Treasury,

50

ever gellingto

ing nucli a stat

An

so Issued and I have little hope of Given Free Hand

a statement. In these Colonial Regulations quite unable to accept foreign cur- attempt is made to prescribe forms rencies or to requiesce in their accep or procedure or to lay down precise tance by other departments. There forms of receipts for money and the was even a suggestion at one time accounting ollicers of each adminis- af accepting deposits in kind. No tration are given a free hand to attempt was made to open a Deposit Institute such records as they think Ledger and the only attempt at keep nt within the framework of these ing a departinental cash book wna Regulations. It 15, perhaps, hardly

O amateurish ag to be quite useless. necessary to point out that theac

Forged Notes Found Regulations merely give effect to

to Early in January came elementury principles well known to

that number of notice all accountants, the Colonial

laclieg were handling occupying a position in Government unsecured corresponding to that of the Arcounts monies and that the monies they Department in. business firm.

received were placed October-thal

Treasury

1117

it

3

with

Mr R. A. D. Forrest

.

discovery of unsatisfactory state of affairs at the Immigration Depart ment on several occasions that he visited the Department, but he felt compelled now to make a format re- port, for as the chief accounting of cer of Government he felt he would be personally responsible.

of receipts had been duplicated and that I told you the Interest Account In one case three times. As awns Inadequate? It was originally result it was Impossible for the nudl-$1,000,

tor to check existing records. The $12,000 Interest Account only course would be to go back to Chinese New Year was on January the original source of information

lon 27 and the situation was acute then. whole and re-write

of the ac-Your Department do not function on counts. The

Accountant General Sundays and holidays, The New suggested in the minuter that the Year was at a week-end. Do you operations of the Immigration Once know what the Interest Account was be suspended for a certain time until set at then?-I cannot remember. the accounts were in order.

Will you agree with me that it was $12,0007Yes

Yes I think so. Allowing for

Mr Barton's Report

Wire

an unusual

Mr Barton, in his report of January

Inet that there 16, stated that he found that there in rousit through the Colony, do you number of people was no accounting officer attached to in transit the Immigration Department, with now know that I was in straits at the result that there was no co-

Lhat time and I find to

to borrow money com from ordination of accounts. There was

money changer? No. no general cast book in existence, so

Recently I had been in the habit that surprise surveys of ensh could of noting on the voucher in which I not be carried out.

The report mentioned that each shroff in the Department was in entire control of his own collections, and there was no reconciliation of cash either by a European officer or a

chief shroft.

signed the deposit receipts the time of day. Do you know that?-No. I don't see the vouchers very much myself.

Are you acquainted with the type of cash book devised before the open- ing of the Department?--I remember the one which I devised.

And equipped by Mr Taylor?--Yes,

Cash Boolt Difficulty At that time I had one aliroff, Mr

The daily collections up to 4 p.m. were taken by the shroff to the Treasury paid in, but money received the keys and dupilcates of which Tsul, who came from the Passport after 4 pm, were locked up in a safe were kept by the shroffs themselves. Ofee. He told me that he was quic Chairman's Questions unable to work that parileular form At the end of Mr Pudney's report, of cash book. We had difficulty as the Chief Justice said. "You have you know, I think, regarding per- been so detalled in your report that sons, who despite press notices to the I don't think there is very much for contrary, insisted on sending cash by few post or by chit book plong with their prescribed applications. I pointed that out to force. you and you allowed me to open a

Me Pudney reported that no singles to ask you, except member of the, Immigration Onice questions regarding the staff was entrusted with the duty of system of book-keeping:

for

n

of shroffs supplied to the draert Co-ordinating and supervising the ac-, You tell us there is no prescribed special book for the purpose, I might Towards the end the after tuent after Treasury training so that counts and work generally in the de- system of book-keeping for any Gov-have. I cannot remember. Is to say, more than two the report of Mr Middlebrook-the it was impossible to verify or controlent,

suggested that Mr A. J. G. question of accounts for the proposed the cash received by any new department Whe ratsed verbally individual. It did not surped me side of the Department's activities. De and on 31st. October suggestions were therefore, to find several

made, copy

and a

particular

Taylor be appointed to organise this

7

ernment Department?

On how many occasions do you say Mr Pudney: Quite

that I had spoken or written to you! There is a fairly well understood or to your Department about the

allowing

for times, minimum require-

Mr Podney also mentioned that he every Denting i force in inadequacy of shroffs?-A number of file No. 33/28/20, / Treasury from the Immigration De. Ind discovered that an ex-hairdresserments. At whnt would you put the Occasionally you had shroffs lent

nor

the

1

the

modification

ather form keyponsible for the presence of cashier who had furnished no‘securi-records of blank permits, the serlal

not adopted, I discovered

is significant, was admitted

have

My Event was! Immigration Office from

found when the

department menced to operate, that an imprest of no less than $10,000 was necessary.

special form of deposit receipt. Without Consultation

in Treasury le No. 33/20/20.

WAZ

AL

ger.

thr

from the store-keeper

per-

corres-

re-

to die

experience. That is 50.

new

Mc

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and

The shroffs were not all the same? of which is to

to be found amongst

the cash brought to 31 (1) ni in Trease departmenta

as Secretary the Department. of $100. cash partntent, including one of

The financial side of affairs, he disminum knowing; the system as you you by the Treasury while cash; partn book devised. This cush book was was impossible to discover who was covered, were entrusted to a lady do?-The system should start with ones were trained.

What do you think of the lighting it furries, one of we the serial party, with a few unsecured shroffs to cured of all permits should be re-use--I never thought of it.

Would partmental cash book instituted. It

obvious, since num-assist her.

and issue-of blank

it was a nice you Say เยอ that although

ough ither was printed in deep blue.

Me Pudney said that he had lent its for completion in approved cases bright room?-it is at least as bright that deposits would the same time the shrails complained several shroffs to the Immigration should be recorded on the issue side as the treasury offer.

the If we do away with artlicial light- cush the Inmigration on imprest of the conditions under which they] Office, often at very short notice, of the stock book and receipt on in would you say, we would be able

to be refunded

In view of those facts and they all reported lack of accom

There receipt side.

must be ilver pecept=| had to work. ed as probably adequate an imprest deputed Mr. L. A. Barton, Treasurymodation and that it was dificult to pending debits and credits. When to work at all?-No.

be handed You mentioned forged note with of $1,000 sufficient to say, 20 Cashier, to inspect and report on the work with the chaotic conditions in completed they should

Revenue the department.

over to the officer concerned who

vhol printing in deposits

blue. The Highling deep Der

at 01 com point of view. His report

Insufficient Accounts Books

should sign them and enter them on arrangements of that ollee might He also reported to the Financial issue side of the deposit book, have something to do with the note

The At the same time, Mr. A. J. C.

signing them should being accepted?--Yes. receipt, und when

What length of experience did Mr In October, in fact, it was not even Taylor, Treasury Accountant, report- Secretars that there was an insuffi- acknowledge thought that the number of deposits; ed to me as in 63 in the sane Trea- ciency of books of accounts in the de- turned after signature, it should be Tsui have?I should say we had

recorded on the Issue side to the pressure of partment. There was no general cash

of his him three weeks or a month. anticipated justified the printing of a sury fic. Onsury due to the high book, and there was no vote service book and on the receipt side of the was not supplied by me personally.

work ira the

No record of expenditure

book rate of expenditure arising out of the

kept by

the store-keeper.

Experienced Shroffs When finally the applicant comes In any case apart from Tsui, the to the Immigration Ofeer forms of Treasury Oficer as he suggests, but was inspected. Collection books were with the fee to collect his shroffs were not of great Government }

It was my intention to recommend war it was not possible to spare was produced when the department kept by the shroffs who did not bring

and hands the fee permits which would themselves con-on My advice it eventually their collections for entry in a genervi stitute the form of receipt for the fee agreed to bring Mr. A. J. G. Taylor cash book.

shroff he

he should receive, the permit Would you say the Department as who records a whole has shroffs who have less The menteer had been the issue in the issue pald. Without consulting me, how-back from Taipo. to endeavour to ever, or, as far as I am aware, the restore order in the chaos.

side of the than the ordinary amount of training making

wat of cash receive

other Departments Auditor, the Immigration Ofeer de- In view of the revelations in thesed, which was contrary to Colonial book, and the shroff should note in that shroils in

his cash book the number of per- have?-No I would not like to any vised and had printed some thousands reports I reported to Government in iegulations.

mits issued in forms, of permit

respect of which that. bound in books of the terms of 31 in C.S.O. Mc No. Regarding the registration of per- 200 each, which from my point of 2807/41. The comments of the Hon. mits issued, he found that the names he has received certain fees. The Would you agree that comparing view were open to almost every pus the Financial Secretary to the Hon. of applicants were not always entered. shroff's cash book should, be totalled my Department with other Depart- sible objection, including

the Colonial Secretary, together with At the request of the immigration daily. The permit is a receipt, (a) No mention of the fee charged, the latter's remarks are on page 9 of Omleer. he had devised a simple into the Treasury or into the Ac- on the average have less experience? ments like the Post Ofee and the Is the money received paid direct Public Works Department the shroffs Fiat.C.S.O. £le.

system of departmental checkung __of_ Ingue (from whit the date of

The currency New Year's Eve Request permits in various stages of Issue.vuntant General's Account in the Less Government experience, may of the permit ran).

Hongkong Bank?-As (c) Bound and numbered back- Shortly after this occurred an eventite was now informed that the con-

regards the be Was enforced deposits each offices entrusted with They are mostly young men, are wards, according to European which I think should be brought totrol of such permits

Since the duty of receiving deposits should they not?—Yes. The notice of the Commission. On only up to a certain stage. standards.

And they would not have very he re- (d) So devised that the pasting of 4.00 pm. on the afternoon of Sunday, these permits served the dual purpose keep a cash book in which he

the applicant's photograph on January 26th-that is to say on the of receipts for cash received and au-cords the amount received from the much outside experience?No.

and number

Are you aware that I have institut- counterfoil would Have afternoon of eve of Chinese New thority to enter the Colony, he stress-receipts showing the

the

importance the

of a system of

Whenever mount.

It is paid into ed a system of report by which I caused

the binding to burst Year-the Immigration Olleer rang

the head office it should show on the may ascertain what the weekly turn- long before the book was, com- me up to say that his supplies of de- strict control.

Be complained that the stocks of receipt side the amount received by over gements for the Macao

over is?—No, pleted. Eventually, un Trea-posit receipt books had run

The sury advice, these forms were Could I let him have some more at serially numbered receipts were not the officer concerned. Regular pay-

the required hinout

meals are norinally made by the office were originally approved by serapped and the present system of once--And this, although he

was kept up to

Treasury. through the failure of the Immigra does not

a general way, you?--In serially numbered booklets hurriedly well aware that Treasury

Offleer

to inform the Treasury

Cross-Examination

You paid a visit to Macon recently. substituted. About the same time partmental receipt forms.

a reserve stuck of special de- tion

all the of his requirements. On one occu system of records was devised by me

After further questions were asked Did you find the arrangements you and accepted by the Immigration printing works were shut and would son, reported Mr Putney, he was by Members of the Commission, Mr had approved of in a general way, Oficer, showing both quantities and remmin shut for several days. What inct with a desperately urgent re- Pudney was cross-examined by Mr were in a generat way being ob-

Forrest. serial numbers of permits passing to could he do? I had no alternative quest for supplies of which an ade-

Mr Forrest produced copies of Not Specifically Assigned and fro in the department, to be kept but to agree to his preparing a hit-quate number existed in the Immigra

various photographs, showing the in-

You referred to Mr A, J. G. Taylor by offleers entrusted with:

ed quantity on a duplicating machine,

terior of the Immigration office, formerly of the Supreme Court, (a) The custody of blank permits allocating a special series letter to

Mr Pudney further reported that which he passed to the The receipt of blank permits this issue, personal and the Auditor deposits for entry to the Colony were and

chairman TURN to Back Page, Column 4 to Mr Pudney. for completion and their com- one and notifying me and the

received by various officers if the pletion.

Mr Forrest:As you are the only prepared. of the quantity toy The receipt of completed per-Although I have asked for it I have department, but he had not been offelal witness to be called who has

how notified as to which officers were actually been

foir

(b) No reference

(b)

(c)

the

out.

tion Office store.

Derogatory

mits for signature and their not yet been for hit those authorised to do so and what amount that give a inşide my offee, does!

signature.

many were prepared, whilst which (d) The custody of completed per-

I have seen bear, not the mits.

initials of The

issue of permits against a “cho migration Ofeer but I am informed is his which, Be receipt of the prescribed Chinese naine, fees.

On February 3rd I personally in- This system was designed to pre-spected the Immigration Office. The vent permits going astray, either by sinte of affairs which I found is best

ed.

do 50.

D3

show the

picture of the state of security these offteers had furnish-of affairs?—Yes.

Certain

the pictures He gathered from the Immigration crowds in what is known Ofleer that it was derogatory to his public enclosure. Have you seen officers to *sk them to

put up more people there?--Yes. security.

Do you think the fixtures are ade- Some deposits were accepted inquate for an oflee such as mine?-I accident or design, and to assist in described in my minute to the Hourrency other than Hongkong cur- would not like to express an opinion rency, for which he knew of no because I must know the detailed lected and brought to account, and and 12 of C.5.0. Alle 1o. 2867/41. instead of being und in to trived, working of your offee before I could ensuring that all fees were duly col- the Financial Secretary on pp. 11 authority. Some money was simply in the extreme, being The opinion of the Hon. the Finan-

sury, were kept in the Immigration merely a series of debit and credit cal Secretary is on p. 13 of the Office and repayments made from ment offices? Have you seen other You have been in many Govern- Shortly after this it came to my this, which practice was contrary to flees supplied with fixtures of thint books which could be kept by any in-

seen notice through unofficial channels Colonial Regulations. telligent person. As will be later, til system was only partially that a Mr. E. A. von Kobza, styling In the opinion of the Accountant-type? It is not unusual.

himself the General Agent carried out.

of the General,

In your first visit to my office, 1 Specially Designed Forms Immigration Department was collect the Immigration Officer were the think it was your first visit, you ob

Jected to the position an accommo- Deposit receipt forms, especiallying revenue on behalf of Govern- same as those which might be met dallon given to the shroffs, which

ment and making refunds of deposits with in any new department, but designed for immigration purposes, and that, further, claimants were was his opinion that with little counter. Your Department lent me were quile close to the public were then prepared by mutual agree belt officially advised to apply to

to foresight they would have disappear- ent between myself and the Im-the "General Agent" if they wished ed. The situation was aggravaled by the desky for the shiroffs?-Mr Burton'

Using immigration Officer services

of Mr

counting Once, as 001

Immigration

send

po

But

ance

ni

nssistant

the dimeulties confronting

probably Con

on

the

already recommended there

In Constant Contact med to be no reason why every-659 the all payments on behalf of trained staf at his disposal,

entrusted with the duty to take advantage of the Benncially

Long before the opening of should run smoothly. The making all

or Bither directly Government, was allocated the through authorised

The report also mentioned that the office I was in contact with you and in staff engaged for the senior posts Mr A. J. C. Taylor of your depart- Mr A. J. G. Taylor, another departments

led representatives in

could not allow was unsuitable.

ment. After the opening on Novem- officer of the S. C. & A. S. With this practice to continue. The Immi

WILH

No Records

ber 17 I was in almost daily contact Assistant-18

with you, mainly on matters of ne- In a later minute to the Financial, but he chose to gration Officer himself was absent him as officer-in-charge at Tal-from his office on that day, but at Secretary, the Accountant-General counting methods, receipts forms and the question of printing forms?— rather

gave reported that the system for checking Yes. thon to utilice his services y request his

Instructions that the repayment of the issue of permits as he had re- Can you remember when Govern- for, the supervision of the accounts in deposits by the General Agent was commented was only followed up to their early stages.

ment The next day the first senior officer, after which printing of forms in the prison?-I decided to discontinue the to cease forthwith. never during all these the Immigration Officer himself and

himself and stage there was no record whatever cannot remember but the operation preliminary discursions did the Im Mc. von Kobza came

The storekeeper, he found, had in his was carried out in July or August. migration Offeer give me any indica.co

L.M. Tos of the many thousands of appli-General Agency" gives details of the pleted permits awaiting claimants. A Government printers, that he cations

ons he would receive, nor the relations with the "General Agent register designed to show the issue deluged with work?--Yes. Was hundreds and maybe thousands of and it is of interest to note dint of permita in serial number had been deposits he would have to take each whilst this report was under discus-kept up to January 25, since then you objected to were supplied by the The Arst supply of forms which day. the outset.

And things began to

go wrong lon certain revenus collections by it seemed to have been abandoned. Government printers? Yes. The department the General Agent were paid into The fallure to maintain this record accepted fees from applicants at the Treasury by cheques drawn in the meant that it was impossible to see another

Why were other forms supplied by Arm? The Government time of application for a permit with-

that 100 percent, revenue was ob printers could not undertake the out the issue-of-a-receipt and such account of the "Kobza Art Sudio,"

Report To F.S

tolited.

work. sums were not brought to account in

In his report to the Financial There was a similar lack of records any way. At one time the Immi: Secretary, Mr Pudney referred to the in regard to deposlis. Certain books the Ordinance came into operation Is it not a fact that not long after

from

to Government in

possession Reveral thousa .com- Have you had complaints from the

served? Yes.

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