1890-11-06 — Page 8

THE PROPOSED LOAN,

Mr. Whitehead movad, pursuant to notice, the following resolution -

That the Government lay upon the table a complete and detailed natement shewing, -The total amount in dollars received by by this Colony on account of the loan for £200,000. 2-The total amount of interest paid, principal and rate to be mentioned, on the lon annually from the date of borrowing until now, or to 30th June last, or any more convenient date of this year.

-The total amount of commission paid to the Crown Agents or others in connection 4.The total amount of charges, advertising, and all others incurred and paid in respect

with the loan,

of the loan.

1.

THE HONGKONG TELEGRAPH, THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 6, 1890.

we pay on borrowed money but unless such is the case, it does seem hard that we should be called upon to pay the whole cost of works of this description. So far as the revenue and the financial condition of the Colony are concerned, I may say I consider it, as I stated in the address I delivered, as decidedly satisfactory At the end of this year the probabilities are that there will be a very considerable balance to the good as the amount estimated towards expenditure on public works during the year over the amount mentioned in the address I made some few weeks ago, and I have good reason to believe that at the end of this year we shall be nearer $200,000 to the good than $100,000. With regant to the actual expenditure for public works, we shall in all probability have a balance to carry in for the coming year, so that as a matter of fact there will not be a deficit at all. I may also mention the fact that many of the works, or at out during the next year are remunerative works, as, for instance, the Central Market. When the Central Market is completed considerable revenue will be obtained by letting the stalls in the market, and if hon. members will go over the list of works they will see some others of a

two posts weg now about double what it was in

The vote was agreed to. 1875.

The Chairman moved a vote of $39,348 for

"The vote was'agreed to.

THE UNOFFICIALS SWAMPED. The Chairman proposed a vote of $1000 for the Audit Department.

Mr. Whitehead-That is for the audit fu· England Pangandaran

The Chairman---And here.

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government, having received it, had pledged themselves as much as they could do towards carrying it out.. It appeared to me that the resp lution of the Board was of a very unusual nature It was an attempt to extract from Government the Colonial Secretary's Department. something that it is not usual for Govemment to give. With regard to the furnishing of a detailed statement concerning these works, it would be an extremely inconvenient thing to do, because in plans which involva so much detail as these for water and drainage works, it is impossible to carry out precisely the original plan, because as the work goes on certain modifications and improvements must be introduced, and if Govern ment bound itself to carry out these plans with out making any modifications in them it would be an extremely objectionable course to adopt. It was because I foresaw the results that would follow if the resolution of the Sanitary Board were adopted, that, while fully agreeing with the the Sanitary Board to attempt to bind the Government to carry out the plans without regard to necessary modifications,

Mr. Whitehead-What part of the accounts are audited in-England Pa

The Chairman-The expenditure.

Mr. Whitehead-Then only one side of the Accounts is rudited here. “T

The Chairman-The revente is nudited here, the expenditure is audited at home.

5. The profit or loss in exchange on each of/ Oplum Farm. Now, we have also to bear in the estimates of the late Surveyor-General with. nay rate some of the works, which will be carried | plans that were prepared, I could not recommend § órdhary method: The revenue is audited here

the amounts of the loan repaid annually. 6. The rate per cent, per annum the loan has cost annually-the rate to include interest, commission, and all other charges from date of borrowing up to the most convenient date of this year. 7.-The amounts to be stated in Pounds Sterling as well as in dollars, also the rate or rates of exchange at which each conver- sion has been made.

He said-My object in moving this resolution is to give the necessary information to the rate. payers as to the rate per cent per annum the loan bas actually cost, including, interest, com- that in the mission, and all other charges, event of the Colony having to borrow later on theratepayers and taxpayers will readily perceive which market they can borrow most cheaply la. Government loan could be aired locally in

His Excellency I w id suggest to the hent member to alter his resolution so as to read "until the Government lay on the table a general statement of the proposed work and of their intentions as regards the water and drain

Mr. Whitehead-With the addition of ther' words, showing what is to be done in each case and the uecessity for such works, together with estimates and plans,""

General, at the meeting of the Sanitary Board be, in going through the estimates if in regard held on the 8th August last, I am glad to observe, to any particular building hon. members desire to know any estimates or further details in com- wished it to be recorded that though he voted against the motion as a whole, yet he cordially mittee, I can say that if it is possible for the approved of the engineering portion of the Government to furnish such information it will project put forward by Mr. Chadwick. Yet in be done. Now, the hon, member's motion refers the face of all this, we have no definite statement to all the items from 1 to 27-with the exception from the Government as to its intentions with of a few--that are mentioned in the estimates, regard to drainage works. Are the Government As the hon. member himself remarked, a great going to adopt Mr. Chadwick's proposals in whole many of these items, I may say most of them, or in part? No information is gives by Govem-nre works that are already commenced, works ment on the point. The Council will be asked for which money has been voted, for several or to vote $103,000 for new water mains and at any rate same years past. It seems, therefore, $283,000 for the sewerage of Victoria. In your a little strange why the information such as is Excellency's valuable minute on the estimates asked for to-day should not have been asked for for 1891 you indicate the prospect of a deficiency previously. I may refer to one particular item, at the end of next year of $100,000, and you that of the Central Market. I remember early also draw pointed attention to the uncertain in February last, a few days after my arrival in source. from which one-fourth of the total this Colony, the Governor made a long stalement revenue of the Colony is derived namely, the in regard to the Central Market, and compared mind the unreasonable demands of the War the estimates of the present Surveyor-General, Office in increasing, or I may say doubling, and the plans of the late Surveyor-General with those of the present Surveyor-General. Now, if our military contribution. There is a very

any information with regard to this market was large Increase in official salaries and in the audit system, which will amount to $54.400 desired, it would seem the most rational thing to annually. Our attention has also been called have asked for it at that time, but it was no! by your Excellency to the falling off in the sale asked for. I believe that a great deal of informa-remunerative description. I also trust that of land. I have reason to believe Government "tion with regard to this market and a great many during next year the amount realized by land

sales will exceed the very modest sum I men-nge work," &c. have not met the Inquiries that have been made details and plans are capable of being furnished. for land. Surely it would be wise and well to and whatever information the Surveyor-General tioned when I brought forward these estimates, meet the demand as it arises instead of holding can give on the matter shall be furnished; but, and therefore I think, if we take the financial the land for higher prices. With the very large as I have already intimated, if information is condition of the Colony, we shall find that it is, falling off in our revenue and the very large desired with regard to buildings of this nature, after all, by no means in an unhealthy condition, increase in our expenditure we are threatened it is much better that information should be with an increase in taxation. We are all agreed procured before the building is actually com- that increased taxes and Increased rates would menced than that the building should be allowed to be proceeded with, and in fact almost com prove very detrimental to the true interests of

another item also included in the hon. member's the Colony. Therefore I think the gravest reasons pleted, before the Information is naked for. Now, exist why the Goverment should give us the fallest information possible with regard to the very large proposed expenditure on public works, I would urge upon the Government to carefully reconsider Lord Knutsford's despatch in regard The Acting Colonial Secretary--I am quite to the Estimates for 1890 before the consideration prepared to lay the laformation desired by the of the Estimates for 1891 comes on. Lord Knuts hon, member on the table. I have only one ford in his despatch of the 11th April Jast says: observation to make, and that is that this return

"I do not wish to imply any doubt that the is not quite so complete as I should have wished Colony, provided the revenue continues to remain it to be, from the fact that one of my predeces-expansiv, can afford to construct in a substantial sors fixed an arbitrary rate of 3s, #d, at which

way many public works of which there is press be took the exchange into dollars. It so happens ing necessity, but the way in which the estimates have been framed of late years seems to indicate that that has been a fair average for the last

a tendency to initiate numerous works on a per- three years, but for next year hon, members will observe an increased rate has been fixed, and

haps unnecessarily liberal scale, without due instructions have been given that in future the regard to the capabilities of the Public Works actual rate of exchange shall be put down and Department, the relative importance of the works, not an arbitrary rate as for the last three years, and the possibility of defraying the expenditure His Excellency-In connection with this matter to which Colony will thus be ultimately of the loan, the hon. member a short time ago committed." brought forward a resolution to the effect that the Government should formulate a scheme for raising another loan, I may state that the reason no sicps have yet been taken in that direction is that I thought it desirable the Estimates should first be considered. Of course it may make a great difference, alter the Council have con- sidered the extraordinary expenditure, in con- sidering whether a loan may or may not be Beccabary. Some of the works put down for next year may be struck out of the estimates; the amounts put down opposite others may be decreased, and hon. members may think that others will be of a very remunerative character; and also at the end of the year it may appear a larger balance exists than is at present content plated. Therefore I think it would hardly be desirable to bring the question of a loan forward until han, members have had an opportunity of considering the estimates and finally deciding what works shall be executed.

silver on very easy terms.

Mr. Ryrie seconded.

The Acting Colonial Secretary stated that the return he had laid on the table would be printed before the next meeting.

OUR PUBLIC WORKS.

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Mr. Ryrie seconded.

Mr. Whitehead-That seems a very extra- and the expenditure is audited 10,000 miles away by people who cannot possibly know anything about the expenditure here.

The Surveyor-General-It is a new departure, is it not ammungen

The Chairman-It is now here! It has been fried in other, Colonies.

The Surveyor-General-With questionable results, nem lenne aberta

The Chairman-Well, all I know is that wo are ordered to vote this amount for the audit by the Secretary of State.

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Mn. Whitehead-I think the vote, instead of being put down as a lump sum of $10,000, might - be split up, and the salary of the local auditor and the expenses of the office here stated. th

[The Chairman-We have no control over the amount here

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Mr. Whitehead--Which is how much? The Chairman—$4,000..!

and that even without having recourse to a loan His Excellency-That would not be possible; and without having recoune to further taxation, as I have already told the hon. member. Take we shall at the end of next year find ourselves the case of Mountain Lodge or the prison. (~The without any deficit. I have made these few Government cannot answer these questions observations because I thought it only right that There are some items included in the hon. mem when dealing with these matters Financeber's motion with respect to which the Govern«: The Acting Colonial Treasurer-We have suffi- Committee you should not look upon the ment cannot say what will actually be dene cient control to put down the different amounts. The Chairman-No, if you look at the Secre financial condition of the Colony in a gloomy All that the Government can say is that noindw manner, although it is far from desirable to put prison is contemplated. With regard to Mountary of State's despatch you will see we are told too rosy a colour upon it. When you examine tain Lodge, it is proposed to build a new house simply to put down $10,000 for payment to the the different Items of expenditure, you should do as soon as a new site has been selected. - otkuditor in England,,,

Mr. Whitehead-Suppose I say," showing | Afr. Whitehead-Then this sum includes Mr. so with care, at the same time taking into con- sideration the actual condition of the Colony at what is proposed to be done in each cass where Nicolle's salary? the present time and the probable prospects practicable."

The Chairman Yes. for the future. Now, with regard to the parti- cular motion before us. I can assure the hon. member who has moved it that all such information as the Government possesses will be given to him, and that that information will be supplemented by any information that can be given freely by the Surveyor-General, but I should like to inform him that it is impossible to comply altogether with the first part of his motion. As regards the despatch I wrote to the Secretary of State, and as to the statements that despatch contains, all portions of that having reference to this motion will be laid before the Council, and further, the statement the Surveyor- General made when the estimates this year were before me will also be laid before the Council, and all information that the Government can give will be laid before the Council. In these circumstances would submit to the hon. member that be should not press the first part of his motion as at present worded. At the present moment I cannot exactly put your motion to the Council, because it is not one the Government can entirely, carry out.

resolution is the Happy Valley work. Now, the Governor at the same time as he spoke of the market referred to this subject, Hon, members must be aware what has taken place in regard to the improvement of the R: cecourse during the past few weeks, This expenditure I may say, perhaps if I had acted entirely in accordance with my own wishes, I should not bave placed in these estimates; but I believe it was the desire of the unofficial members of Council that these improvements to Happy Valley for the purposes of recreation should be made. I know the hon. member who left a short time ago Mr. MacEwen) expressed himself very strongly to me on this point, and it was in consequence of certain statements made to me by the members and the public that the scheme which was at first proposed for the Athletic Club was abandoned and a new scheme pursued. A vote was brought forward for a certain amount to fill up the pond on the Racecourse, and that was agreed to, and The Acting Colonial Secretary Your I believe it was subsequently recognised that the Excellency, in reply to the hon, member I will deal improvements on this Racecourse would be for with the last part of his motion first, and state the general good; but with regard to that I can that the Government are perfectly ready to lay only say that when the matter is considered in Finance Committee, if hon. members think that on the table an extract from the statement in

this expenditure should not be incured, it is reply to the despatch of Lord Knutsford of te 18th April, and as to furnishing a report by the quite open to them to remedy it themselves with Surveyor-General as to what works his Depart regard to next year, and so far as I am concerned ment can reasonably undertake to do during I shall be happy to bow to any decision that may the ensuing year, there will be laid on the table be come to with regard to that subject. I cer- the report of the Surveyor-General made when tainly understood from the community generally,

Mr. Whitehead-I beg to thank you heartily for be submitted the Estimates for 1891 for the and from hon. members in particular, that it was

the promise made to give the fullest information consideration of your Excellency. With regard considered desirable to carry out this work, and

that is the reason it was put on the estimate. I possible. I would again reiterate that I had no in the first part of the motion there is some difficulty. That part refers to two distinct matters, believe, with regard to this particular matter,there intention whatever of impeding or obstructing are plans, specifications, and climates, and all any public works, more particularly those to which one connected with public works properly 'so

reference has been made the recreation ground called, and the other with the water and can be laid before the committee, and they can

at Happy Valley and others. I have perhaps drainage and water works scheme, the report these decide whether the work shall be carried out of M. Chadwick was laid on the table on or not. Another important matter contained worded the resolution a little too harshly in ask the 30th May last, and as that scheme has in the hon. member's resolution is the gaoling for detailed and complete statements. It was my intention to ask for a general state- received your Excellency's approval, it is extension. Now, hon. members are perfectly

ment from the Surveyor-General in regard to on those lines that the water and drainage well aware that nothing is yet decided upon with system will be carried out. As to the reference to the gaol, and it is impossible for the each item in the list. I am perfectly well aware public works, it is not always possible to lay Government to law before the Council detailed that many of these works have already been in plans of the building, which as yet are not former estimates, and that the money has already before the Council the information that is now. Mr. Whitehead-Pursuant to notice moved asked for, but when we reach these items either settled. I have stated my desire previously, and I been voted. Why these statements and plans were not called for I do not know, What I wish That the Council postpone consideration of the in Finance Committee' or in Public Works Com- have communicated that desire to the Secretary

to move for is a general statement with regard -Estimates for 1891 for Public Works Extra-mittee, the Surveyor-General will be most happy of State, that if it can possibly be avoided, we ardinary No. 29 on the Abstract List-in to give hon, imembers every information; but to should not have recourse to building a new gael. to each work, the estimated cost, the designs and plans where they have been made, and an so far as regards the following numbers lay on the table full particulars as to all these It would mean a very considerable expenditure;

explanation as to how the estimate has been under that heading-Nos. i, 8, 9, 11, 13, items would mean simply filling this room with $400,000 is the estimate. I have suggested that

arrived at. If the hon, member who seconded It 15, 16, 18, 21, 25, 39, 32, 34, 35, 36, plans and specifications. It is almost impossible the presen: gaol might he extended at a cost of

has no objection, I have no desire to press the and 37, until Government lay on the table to lay a detailed statement of these works before over $100,000, and if that scheme is not approved

first part of the resolution with regard to the detalled and complete statements of the pro- Council, as it would involve particulars as to the that one block of the new gaol might be com posed works abewing what is to be done in size and number of panes of glass that were to menced; but my idea with regard to the erection detalled and complete statement.

of a new block is that once cammenced it will Mr. Ryrie-I have no objection to offer if you each case and the necessity for the works,

be put into a building; but if a general state-

wish to withdraw that part, together with estimates and plans, including ment can possibly be brought forward it shall be be necessary to go on and build an entirely new a definite statement of their intentions with done. There are one or two items also with gaol, whereas if by extending the present gaol reference to Drainage and Water-works, no respect to which it is not possible yet to bring we could have recourse to the separate system, that the Council and the Public may know forward a detailed statement. Take, for instance, we might by that means and by other means precisely what it is the Council are asked to the case of Mountain Lodge. The proposed decrease the number of prisoners, and render it sanction and for what purposes the money alterations entirely depend on whether the unnecessary to build the larger building that is to be voted is to be used. Further, that the present building is to be reconstructed or a new contemplated. Whether the $100,00 goes to Government lay on the table a copy of alte purchased and a new place built. Although wards building a new gaol, or whether it goes the Despatch and Statement sent to Lord that matter must be dealt with in the forthcoming towards the cost of enlarging the present gaol as Knutsford in reply to hie Despatch of 18th year, it is needless to say that the detalls have I have suggested, the plans that have been pre- April last, also a fresh report from the not been prepared, but in all these malters such pared will be laid before the Finance Committee, Surveyor General as to what works he can general information as we have shall be laid and, bon, members will be quite at liberty to now reasonably undertake to do during the before the Council.

express any opinion which they think right. I easuing year, and also a report detailing His Excellency I hope hon, members will may say that I was obliged to include a certain the Public Works to which the Colony is gather from the few observations just made sum in the estimates for gaol extension, Inasmuch already actually committed.

that it is not possible to agree to this resolution as my attention had been more than once directed He said I have no desire to impede or exactly as it stands now. For example, the case to it by the Secretary of State, With regard to obstruct any of the public works. We all of Mountain Lodge has been relerred to. There the public laundries, civil hospital, slaughter- recognise and agree as to their pressing and urgent have been $40,000 placed on the estimates for a houses, &c., han, members will find that most of necessity. At some tiine or other many of the new mountain residence for the Governor. The these sums have been voted on previousoccasions, works have already appeared on the Estimates same sum was placed on them last year, but I believe in regard to many of them-I may say of previous years, and in a sense have been until a site is selected it is impossible to lay before all of them-there are plans and details which Approved of. Each session of Council, however, the Council plans and estimates and particulars there is no objection at all to laying before is separate and independent. Each time Est with regard to the house, and therefore that item Council. Whether these plans are such ante mates are brought before the Council members itself will make it impossible to strictly comply come within the actual wording of the hon. have the right of approving or disapproving, with the hon. mamber's motion as now worded, member's resolution I am scarcely able to say, On each occasion Government should give the I may also refer to item 29, for the New Law but I can say that all the information given to fu lest information, as if the Estimates bad come Courts and offices, for which a sum of $153,000 the Finance Committee with respect to these on for the first time. In the Estimates for extra is put down. In the first place the Councils not glass can be supplemented by further explans ordinary expenditure I find numerous public asked to vote a single farthing of this for nextion from the Surveyor-General in case the works involving an outlay of upwards of $920,000. year. It is liability which the Colony documents laid before the committee are not such The Council will be asked to vote this amount in all probability will have to incur but as to satisfy hon. members. There is another item which I think it only right to draw the without the means of knowing sometime before the expenditure connected with this work is hand for what purpose the money to be voted is not likly to be incurred next year, and as a attention of members to it is not mentioned in considering the desirability of approving or have as yet been made for the new Low the lowering of Queen's Road West. A sum of disapproving the proposed works or any special Courts or offices, and therefore that is $6,000 has been inserted in the estimates for one of them. We have not been informed another item with respect to which it is carrying out this work. This is a work which I was informed the Governor before his departure whether designs and estimates have been impossible for the Government, however much obtained or not. No definite statements and no they desire to comply with the hon, member's had carefully considered, and it was mentioned plans are placed before the Council. The names motion, to place particulars before the Council, to me that is was a very desirable work to carry only of the works given. Had definite plans With regard to many other items, as the Colonial out. In these circumstances I considered it my and designs been made with reference to the Secretary mentioned, the Government will be duty to insert the amount appearing in the new Victoria College, surely no such difference perfectly prepared to lay before the Council every estimates towards carry ng it out next year, but could have arisen between the estimate Information they possibly can but to say that jacing out this work I can only say, as in and the actual ultimate cost of that building detailed estimates and detailed plans should be the case of the Happy Valley improvements, that A was the case. When statements are made laid before the Council in every particular case if the unofficial members consider this work and plans decided. on and money is voted would be to say what would be impossible to should not be carried out next year, but should

His Excellency--I do not sea bow the Govern thereon, no material changes should be perform, because there are some of these public remain until the finances of the Colony are more permitted without good reason shown and the works with regard to which detailed statements fourlabing, the Government is by no means ment can lay on the tablo a definite statement as sanction of the Council obtained. If no such have not been made. There are others almost desirous of urging the carrying out of the work to their intentions with reference to the drainage statements are made and not plans are given, completed, and it is Impossible in regard to them against the feeling which unofficial members and water works. My only desire is to give the changes may be made without the knowledge to lay a detalled statement before the Council may possess la connection with it. The hon. hon. member and unofficial members to under-: of the Council, and the Council will have no as has been suggested. There is also another member on my left (Mr. Chates) has spokes stand that Government cannot promise to per control whatever over them. Mr. Chadwick reason, I think, why it might be undesirable to me more than once about the work, form what it is unable to do. Any information was brought out to Hongkong at the Govern to lay detailed statements before Council with and so doubt he will be able to give the that can be given will be given, but to under ment's request in 1882. He then furnished regard to the estimates of every particular Finance Committee any Information in con- take to give a definite statement with regard to the water and drainage works would be to under- valuable, and exhaustive reports in regard to building. I will not allude to the particulars, nection with it they may desire. The hon. the drainage and sanitation of Victoria. These but I think hon. members will consider that if member Mr. Whitehead) in the course of his take what is almost impossible.

Mr. Whitehead-Are the Government decided naturally cost the ratepayers considerable might be undesirable to say detailed statements remarks referred to the possibility of. Increased

to carry out the scheme suggested by Mr. Chad- money. What was dune with these reports? of expenditure in regard to every building before taxation, and to certain points to which I alludei I believe they were utterly disregarded. Mr. Council, and they would not press for that in the address I made a short time since. Now, wick 7

His Excellency-I thought the Colonial Chadwick was lafely brought out again, and he information. The Surveyor-General estimates it is quite true that I did refer to the possible gave us plans, statements, and estimates in that a building will cost so much; it is very arising of a loan, and I may tell members at Secretary stated just now that that was decided reference to the new drainage and water works. questionable whether it would be a good thing once that my principal season for suggesting the some months ago, volu

The Surveyor-General-If I may be allowed to These recommend themselves to the common- for that estimate to be made generally known as | rajsing of a loan was not so much on account of sense of the community. The Sanitary Board soon as it was drawn up. Of course it is quite the financial condition of the Colony as because say a few words. I would point out with regard to have recommended them, and in their letter of right that the Council should be fully aware of the I do think, whether the Colony is fourishing or the resolution of the Sanitary Board, where as the 8th August last they recommand that Mr. cost of a certain building, and more or less of not flourishing, that it is hardship upon one President.I took a somewhat unusual course, I Chadwick's proposals and plans be sanctioned the particulars connected with that building; but generation to be called upon to pay the whole did not agree with the whole resolution passed and approved by a resolution of the Legislative when you come to ask for tenders for the work, cost of such works as we are carrying out here by the Board for the reason that, was already Council so as to obrinto the risk, with a change as is generally done in this Colony, it becomes now, and which are for the beneßt of future aware, as a member of the Legislative Council, of officers, of changes in and departures from questionable whether it is devirable to lay every generations. Nodoubt, if a Colony excessively that Mr. Chadwick's report had been received these plans, And the hon. the Surveyor detail before the Council. However that may wealthy it is always desirable to save the interest and adopted, and it appeared to me that the

His Excellency-It is rather difficult to separate one part of a resolution. If the hon. member will withdraw, his resolution on the undertaking being given that all general informa- tlon in connection with the public works specified, that the Surveyor-General possesses, shall be given to him, and the statements in the despatch sent to Lard Knutsford so far as they refer to public works, and, further, that the statement of the Surveyor-General when be prepared the estimates shall also be furntated to bim, I am quite prepared to give that undertaking; or if the hon. member will change the wording of the resolution, I have no objection, but it is impos- sible to accede to the request for showing detalled statements.

Mr. Whitehead-I will alter that to "general statements,"

His Excellency-Very well. Then there is another matter to which I would refer the hon. member. As regards the water and drainage works, I cannot refer him to the Surveyor General, but all the information the Government possesses in the matter, and the reports of Mr. Chadwick, shall be furnished to the hon. member if that will meet him.

His Excellency-As regards the necessity for the works, I do not think if hon. member.look through the list they will find any works which are unnecessary, except perhaps one or two have alluded to. If the hon. member could so word his resolution that I could possibly give effect to it I should be glad to do so, wolde

Mr. Whitehead-I have altered the resolution to read, "until the Government lay on the table general statements, where practicable, of the proposed works showing what is to be done in each case together with estimates and plane etc." I do not see that it is 'impossible for Government to give a definite statement as to what they are going to do. I do not think the public know that the Government are going to follow Mr. Chadwick's scheme and plans: I'was" not aware they were going to do so until this afternoon.

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Mr. WhiteheadI propose the sum for audit be reduced by the amount not disbursed here think the accounts could be audited much more effectively here than at home. | | Mr-Chater—I think if the items were put down, which go to make up this sum, it would be much better fut

The Chairman-I should be most happy to do no, but the Secretary of State in his despatch gave orders to put it down as it appears in the estimates. We have no power whatever over the local auditor. The Governor has no power, bor has the Colony.

Mr. Chater-But you pay him.

The Chairman-No. We pay $10,000 to the Auditor General at home, I happen to know that the local auditor receives $4,000, but that. is all. We pay him bere, but it is no account of the auditor at home.

MnHo Kai seconded Mr. Whitehead's motion for the reduction of the vote.

His Excellency-The estimates and plans would take so much time to prepare that it would do away with the consideration of the estimates. The Surveyor-General-I would remind the hon, member that having plans laid on the table Mr. Chater...I think it is a very extraordinary means making new ones, specially, SAE 14 mode of procedure, $to,000 is paid for the

Mr. Whitehead--I think with reference to new audit, a portion; of which is paid here, and · works it would be satisfactory to have these neither the Colony nor the Government has any plans. With regard to old works, I am willing Control over the auditor. I think it is a state of to pass that part of the motion. With regard things that should be altered, and I'agree with to the new works, I think a defalte statementy.colleagues that the vote should not be passed. and plani should be laid on the table wher The Acting Attorney-General-The whole each wedding matter was considered some time ago when the practicable.

His Excellency-Who is going to decide what change was made. A very long despatch came is practicable? It is always practicable to make from home saying that it had been decided that a plan.

the accounts were to be audited partly bere and Mr. Whitehead-As soon as the plans are partly in England, and for this purpose a sum made they could be laid on the table,

of $10,000 was placed on the estimates, and so far as we are concerned. I take it we have no option in the matter..

His Excellency-That is just what I think the Goverpinent cannot do. To make plans to give to the Council would take time.

Mr. Whitehead-Well, when it is possible the de plans should be laid on the table..

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"Mr. Chater I recollect the circumstances very clearly, and I recollect Sir William Des Vaux commented on them and stated that he did not think it was a course that could be carried out. Official and unofficial members only voted a sum for the past year in order to give the system

trial, and seeing that the trial has not been so successful as it might have been I think somos alteration should now be made, pote

...

His Excellency-Well, we cannot go on with the Estimates till that is done accordin to your motion. That is the gist of your motion. * The Surveyor-General-You will allow me to say that it would be practicable to prepare plans of the whole works, but it would requiré cónii- derable time. It would require a special set of The Acting Colonial..Treasurer-It has not plans of all the works to be laid before the been on trial yet, as the accounts have only Council. This would require a works of several recently, gope home, owing to the illaess of the

Ista - Trausurar 1 Under the new arrangement ⠀⠀ months In the meantime other work would be

Bonobong salis centain errors have been discovered which it in at a standstill."

impossible can take place in the future, and I therefore think it is premature to say the trial has falled.

His Execllency-If the hon. member will word his resolution to read a general statement of the proposed works and of other intentions with reference to the drainage and water works &e." I think a resolution in these words would meet the case, coupled with, the assurance I myself have given, that all loformation we have now to supply shall be supplied.

The Acting Attorney-General-1 would pro pose, in order to bring this matter to a close, that after hearing the full explanation your Excellency has given and your assurance that you are willing to furnish every information possible, the present resolution be amended by: striking out the first part as to the postpone meat of the consideration of the estimates, allen which it shall read that the Government lay on the table a general statement of the proposed works and of their intention, with: reference to the drainage and water works into vk.

Mr. Whitehead--I silil think we should have:c the plans of new works laid on the table wherever practicable. todas

Mr., ChaterWe refuse to vote this sum because we think the whole audit should be carried out. In Hongkong I do not say the officer here has not done his duty efficiently, We are of opinion that he has, and we go further and say that he should audit both sides of the account. Our only reason for not voting the sum asked for is to call attention to the fact that the whole of the accounts should be audited hero, The amendment was then put to the voin and lost, Messrs. Chater, Whitehead, and Ho Kai, the only thren unofficial members present, voting in favour of it, and the original motion for the vote of $10,000 was carried.

After a further vote for the Treasuryific Council resumed, and adjourned until Monday next.

Halle wat d KOREA.

to be used, and without the opportunity of fully matter of fact no plans or detailed estimates the ben, member's motion-and that is trem 30, happened in that case. The estimated original | mitted to the Council and list, as the Surveyortantefer to the Austrian corvette Zrinyi, which

Wha

Mr. Whitehead-Would it not be desirable for the Government to place on the table a state mentshowing their definite intentions with regard to the scheme they propose to follow, the same as in connection with the other works. I am thinking more particularly of the case of Victoria College. We all recollect very clearly what cost was a comparatively small sum, whereas the actual cost of that building was enormous,

His Excellency-I am fully aware of that, but such cases are not confined to Hongkong. Only a day or two ago I read that the original estimate: for the Science and Arts Insitute in Dublin wAS 100,000, while the total expenditure incurred WAS $200,000. I do not mean to say that that is any justification whatever for the extra expense incurred here, but it shows that there things will occur all the world over.

Mr. Ryrie-What about the Tytam water works?

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111

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*(TROM OUR CORRESPONDENT), DAIL His Excellency ahould not like to undertake

1 Soul 14th Octorber," 1890,, The remains of old, queen Chó having been to promise that, because I do not think the Government could do it. I should not like to gathered now to her ancestors, "public work has bind myself to lay plans of all new buildings aus been resumed again. It is a matter of regret the table, because in that case it would become that our late, visitor from the Mediteranean, did at once binding on the Government, not 10.0/0.3 not drop in at s'more opportune "bccasion," thun, ceed until all the plaus were prepared and cultic during the time of the deep Court morning. I

•1997, þ arrived here on purpose to open" treaty negotlan General ways, would take mening member can possibly word his motion so,88 jo tjons between Auto-Hungary and this country, make it a practical one for the Got

However, it sappears ber gallant commander, accept, I shall be very pleased to apfee to u

but to put it to the

Captain Khittel, has succeeded in establishing preliminaries of some soft, that can be acted pat, there is no other course vole, 1 in witquan, tal caldo e visko¬ú sat

(poh Idteil 16-Way generally regretted” here, Mr. Chater think your Excellency, after specialy is smeler circles, that Consul General the remarks made, and the promise glow the Joh 19has had been prevented by urgent busidera alteration proposed by the Attorney-General obtiplaying the mission; he would haya!!! would meet the case. So far as I am concerned teen able taba exceedingly useful, considering I am willing to accept the undertaking, that all that he knows the country and its people walth information with respect to these works will be a crer since the Land of the Morning Calm has given wherever practicable.

"Austria His Excellency-Does the hos member wisten thrown open to the outside world,

will be the seventh treat Power to establish the motion as originally worded to be put to the stehty relations with this country. vote! I do not wish to do so if all parties can, agree to a compromisor

Mr. Whitehead-I an willing to ugide in to alteration proposed muudetud al

| The: amended ... motion was then put and carried,

FINANCE COMMITTER. "NOTEBO The Council, then resolved-itself into a Finance Committee, the chair being taken by the Acting Colonial Secretary"

Amed The Chairman said they would now proceed to consider the estimates, on the goderstanding already come to, namely, that only non-conien- tious matter would be considered, des 2. A vole of $86,527, the charges on account of, Public debt, and a vote of $51,840 for pensions, were carried without discussions

soivat Chemulpo, October 3rd, 1890. Os the fith fast 309 Ping Yang soldiers were landed in Chemulpoex German steamship Signal. They, matched right away to Söŭl to masist at the funeral of the Queen mother of Koren, who dod in June at the ripe old age of 83+ "Queen" che adopted the present King in 1864 ; his real- mother, the wife of the Dat-in-kun, is still alive, butils hot styled “ Queen,” nor does she cojoy- Royal honours) The funeral came off on the rata Instain perfect önder and harmony, and the (ceremony #ak rendered the more imposing: by: the presence of the officers and men of the Palós. and Monodacy, who were posted at the Fast Gate and presented arms; when, the corego passed by The inevitable lap was thele

THE GOVERNOR AND LEGISLATURE LE The Chairman proposed a vote of $400 for the Governor and Legislature of

Mr. Whitehead said, be noticed these was no increase made in the asiaties of the Private Secretary and A.D,Cand

The Chairman said the pay attached to these

take fustantaneous photos. ¿ The weather CTAN

that can be desired, and the crops have time out fairly good

Med-of-war in part::