Sessional_Paper_1893 — Page 590

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Q.-The Treasurer does not consider himself responsible for the amounts being

correct?

A.--No. You will see what is said about that in the Financial Instructions (produced). The Treasurer receives so much from the Postmaster. It is not possible for him to go and check all the accounts of the different departments. He must trust to their correctness.

The Chairman.-I think he ought to make surprise visits.

A. Yes, he ought to make an occasional test.

Mr. Thurburn.--Each department ought to have their own checks at the same time. The Chairman.-That does not relieve the Treasurer. (To witness) I take it that Alves' Day book only showed the amount he paid in?

A.-Which was paid in by the shroff.

Mr. Thurburn.--The whole of the Treasury department apparently has been worked by Mr. Alves and Mr. Carvalho for many years? They had no regular Treasurer ?

A.-That is so.

Q.-They had a man in fact whose whole time was taken up in the Post Office?

A. Yes.

Q.-Mr. Mitchell Innes was really the first Treasurer ?

A.--Yes.

The Chairman.-You say Alves' cash books have disappeared?

A. There is only one left.

Mr. Thurburn.--Alves had nothing to do with the assessed taxes personally?

A.-No, that work was done by another clerk altogether. To show you that there was an idea that he could receive money it was only the other day that a man told me that when he had money to pay to the Treasury he paid it to Alves and sometimes left him a cheque for assessed taxes.

The Chairman.-To whose order was the cheque made out?

A.-To the Colonial Treasurer, I should think.

Mr. Bird.-Had Alves the power to take a cheque?

A.-I think not, unless he was acting cashier.

The Chairman.-The public pays of course at its own risk. In strict law the person who pays wrongfully and does not get a proper receipt is liable.

Mr. Thurburn. The receipts are all right.

A.-I remember a case that occurred a short time ago in which a public company paid some crown rent and afterwards found out that it had already been paid. It appears that the rent had been paid by a Chinaman and by the Company. One of the men of the Company said to Alves "How is it that if the money was already paid by the Chinaman that you took it from us?" and Alves replied " Oh, the Treasury never refuses any money." It was only a matter of $5.40 so nobody was much the worse.

The Chairman.-As to the amount of the defalcations you have only been able to ascertain actually the sums taken in 1890, 1891, and 1892 ?

A.-Ascertain absolutely, yes, because in the Rent Roll from the Land Office there are always certain adjustments to be made, but I calculate the amount of the defalcations to be $59,731.12, but, as I say, for the period from January 1st 1888 to December 31st 1889, the amount is only approximate as the Rent Roll is not forthcoming. The Treasury Rent Roll for 1887 may be looked upon as correct: