HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995 3719 OFFICIAL RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Wednesday, 17 May 1995
The Council met at half-past Two o’clock
PRESENT
THE PRESIDENT
THE HONOURABLE SIR JOHN SWAINE, C.B.E., LL.D., Q.C., J.P.
THE CHIEF SECRETARY
THE HONOURABLE MRS ANSON CHAN, C.B.E., J.P.
THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY
THE HONOURABLE SIR NATHANIEL WILLIAM HAMISH MACLEOD, K.B.E., J.P.
THE ATTORNEY GENERAL
THE HONOURABLE JEREMY FELL MATHEWS, C.M.G., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE ALLEN LEE PENG-FEI, C.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE MRS SELINA CHOW LIANG SHUK-YEE, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE HUI YIN-FAT, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE MARTIN LEE CHU-MING, Q.C., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE PANG CHUN-HOI, M.B.E.
THE HONOURABLE SZETO WAH
THE HONOURABLE TAM YIU-CHUNG
THE HONOURABLE ANDREW WONG WANG-FAT, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE EDWARD HO SING-TIN, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE RONALD JOSEPH ARCULLI, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE MARTIN GILBERT BARROW, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE MRS PEGGY LAM, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE MRS MIRIAM LAU KIN-YEE, O.B.E., J.P.
3720 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995 DR THE HONOURABLE LEONG CHE-HUNG, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE JAMES DAVID MCGREGOR, O.B.E., I.S.O., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS ELSIE TU, C.B.E.
THE HONOURABLE PETER WONG HONG-YUEN, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ALBERT CHAN WAI-YIP
THE HONOURABLE VINCENT CHENG HOI-CHUEN, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MOSES CHENG MO-CHI
THE HONOURABLE MARVIN CHEUNG KIN-TUNG, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG MAN-KWONG
THE HONOURABLE CHIM PUI-CHUNG
REV THE HONOURABLE FUNG CHI-WOOD
THE HONOURABLE FREDERICK FUNG KIN-KEE
THE HONOURABLE TIMOTHY HA WING-HO, M.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL HO MUN-KA
DR THE HONOURABLE HUANG CHEN-YA
THE HONOURABLE SIMON IP SIK-ON, O.B.E., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE LAM KUI-CHUN
DR THE HONOURABLE CONRAD LAM KUI-SHING, J.P. THE HONOURABLE EMILY LAU WAI-HING
THE HONOURABLE LEE WING-TAT
THE HONOURABLE ERIC LI KA-CHEUNG, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE FRED LI WAH-MING
THE HONOURABLE MAN SAI-CHEONG
THE HONOURABLE STEVEN POON KWOK-LIM
THE HONOURABLE HENRY TANG YING-YEN, J.P.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995 3721 THE HONOURABLE TIK CHI-YUEN
THE HONOURABLE JAMES TO KUN-SUN
DR THE HONOURABLE SAMUEL WONG PING-WAI, M.B.E., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE PHILIP WONG YU-HONG
DR THE HONOURABLE YEUNG SUM
THE HONOURABLE HOWARD YOUNG, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE ZACHARY WONG WAI-YIN
DR THE HONOURABLE TANG SIU-TONG, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE CHRISTINE LOH KUNG-WAI
THE HONOURABLE ROGER LUK KOON-HOO
THE HONOURABLE ANNA WU HUNG-YUK
THE HONOURABLE JAMES TIEN PEI-CHUN, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE ALFRED TSO SHIU-WAI
THE HONOURABLE LEE CHEUK-YAN
ABSENT
DR THE HONOURABLE DAVID LI KWOK-PO, O.B.E., LL.D., J.P. THE HONOURABLE NGAI SHIU-KIT, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE LAU WONG-FAT, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE LAU WAH-SUM, O.B.E., J.P.
IN ATTENDANCE
MR MICHAEL SUEN MING-YEUNG, C.B.E., J.P.
SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS
THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL SZE CHO-CHEUNG, I.S.O., J.P.
SECRETARY FOR THE CIVIL SERVICE
MR DOMINIC WONG SHING-WAH, O.B.E., J.P.
SECRETARY FOR HOUSING
3722 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995
MRS KATHERINE FOK LO SHIU-CHING, O.B.E., J.P. SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE
MR BOWEN LEUNG PO-WING, J.P.
SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS
MR JAMES FRANCIS MORRIS
DEPUTY SECRETARY FOR SECURITY
THE CLERK TO THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL
MR RICKY FUNG CHOI-CHEUNG
THE DEPUTY SECRETARY GENERAL
MR LAW KAM-SANG
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995 3723 PAPERS
The following papers were laid on the table pursuant to Standing Order 14(2): Subject
Subsidiary Legislation L.N. No.
Pilotage Ordinance (Amendment of Schedule 1)
Order 1995 ............................................................................... 160/95
Waste Disposal (Charges for Disposal of Waste)
Regulation ................................................................................ 161/95
Consular Relations (Privileges and Immunities)
(Commonwealth Countries and Republic of
Ireland) (Amendment) Order 1995........................................... 163/95
Dangerous Drugs Ordinance (Amendment of Second
Schedule) Order 1995 .............................................................. 164/95
Hospital Authority Ordinance (Amendment of Schedule
2) (No. 2) Order 1995............................................................... 165/95
Official Languages (Alteration of Text)
(Immigration Ordinance) Order 1995....................................... 166/95
Import and Export (Registration) (Amendment)
Regulation 1994 (L.N. 639 of 1994)
(Commencement) Notice 1995................................................. 167/95
Industrial Training (Clothing Industry)
(Amendment) Ordinance 1995 (2 of 1995)
(Commencement) Notice 1995 ........................................ 168/95
Rating (Amendment) Ordinance 1995 (22 of 1995)
(Commencement) Notice 1995 ........................................ 169/95 Declaration of Increase in Pensions Notice 1995................................. 170/95
Widows and Orphans Pension (Increase)
Notice 1995...................................................................... 171/95
Official Languages (Authentic Chinese Text)
(Limited Partnerships Ordinance) Order.............................. (C)33/95
Official Languages (Authentic Chinese Text
(Partnership Ordinance) Order......................................... (C)34/95
3724 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995
Official Languages (Authentic Chinese Text)
(Transfer of Businesses (Protection of Creditors)
Ordinance) Order ..................................................................... (C)35/95
Official Languages (Authentic Chinese Text)
(Immigration Ordinance) Order ....................................... (C)36/95
Sessional Paper 1994-95
No. 87 — Hong Kong Monetary Authority Annual Report 1994
ADDRESSES
Building (Energy Efficiency) Regulation
PRESIDENT: We will start with two addresses, but under Standing Order 14(5) no debate may arise upon these addresses
DR SAMUEL WONG: Mr President, I thank you for allowing me to place on record my misgivings on the wording of the Building (Energy Efficiency) Regulation now tabled.
The Regulation, gazetted on 21 April 1995 and to be operational on 21 July 1995, imposes energy efficiency requirements. They require the external walls and roofs of a commercial or hotel building to be designed and constructed to have suitable overall thermal transfer value, known as OTTV. A Code of Practice has been published to provide technical guidance for such design and construction.
When building plans are submitted, they will now have to be accompanied by information and calculations as required by Building (Energy Efficiency) Regulation 5. Information and calculations will be required to be submitted on standard forms — OTTV 1 to 4 — as set out in the schedule to the OTTV Code.
In the past four years, professional mechanical and building services engineers were heavily involved in the drafting of this OTTV Code. In July last year, I had had the opportunity of going over the Code. Subsequently, I recommended to the Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands that the OTTV Code should require design, calculations and certification of OTTV to be carried out by registered professional engineers in the mechanical or building services disciplines, namely those whose expertise was required to prepare the Code in the first place. My belief was that the person who prepared and certified OTTV calculations should be responsible for that certification.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995 3725
The whole point of creating a Register of Engineers of the various disciplines was to bring under regulatory and disciplinary control those professionals responsible for safety and economic matters, whose competence to practise could be updated annually to keep pace with the accelerating advances in technology. This is not the case with Authorised Persons, who are in overall control of any building project and are not legally subject to such restraints. If left free to obtain OTTV calculations from any source, they could well choose badly simply because of a lack of incentive to keep up to date with developments outside their own specializations. If litigation subsequently arose because a completed building failed to meet its thermal design criteria, the Authorised Person could use his own or his adviser’s incompetence in the field of building services as a defence, since neither is required by law, and the Engineers Registration Board might have no means of disciplining the building services adviser. I believe in an extreme case the Government might be found liable for providing inadequate control.
Regrettably my recommendation was not accepted. Instead, the Buildings Department merely mentioned in the Practice Note for Authorised Person that “Authorised Persons are encouraged to consult a Registered Professional Engineer in assessing the design assumptions adopted in the evaluation of energy efficiency in buildings, and the services of a Registered Professional Engineer would contribute to a comprehensive approach to energy conservation”.
In the OTTV summary sheet, only a small box is provided for stating who calculated the OTTV. A Registered Professional Engineer is only one of the options.
Mr President, I would draw you attention to the fact that OTTV control is only a first step in the preparation of several building services regulatory matters, including lighting, fire services, pressurization of staircases, smoke extraction and indoor air quality and, if the same lack of professional concern is shown to these, public safety in buildings will be at risk.
The Council enacted the Engineers Registration Ordinance in 1990. Today we have over 500 professional engineers registered in the two relevant disciplines. I was dismayed to find the Government has not seen fit to make the services of these professionals mandatory in the evaluation of OTTV, contrary to the whole spirit of the Engineers Registration Ordinance.
The Administration — and I stress the word, for we are not considering professional judgement here — the Administration stated that their main reason for not pursuing my recommendation was so as not to delay the implementation of OTTV control and they indicated that they would review the control procedures two years after implementation when my recommendation could be reconsidered in the light of operational experience. Could they mean when they find out how serious is the litigation that arises?
3726 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995
I should add that they undertook to amend the Engineers Registration Ordinance within six months of its enactment to include sub-professionals and it has not been done yet after six years.
I remain unconvinced by the Administration’s reasons for allowing a professional job to be carried out by non- or inappropriate professionals. I would therefore make one last appeal to the Administration to write into the Code that the use of Registered Professional Engineers of appropriate disciplines for the design, calculation and certification of OTTV is essential.
PRESIDENT: Mr TO, did you wish to raise a point?
MR JAMES TO (in Cantonese): Are we having a debate on the Building (Energy Efficiency) Regulation? I hope to have some guidance on procedures from you, Mr President.
PRESIDENT: Yes. As I indicated before the addresses started, no debate would arise on the two addresses under Standing Order 14(5). Dr WONG had sought my consent, before the sitting, under Standing Order 14(4) to address the Council on this particular subsidiary legislation which had been laid on the table of the Council and I have since then received a request from the Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands to address the Council as well. And I have decided to permit the Secretary to make an address to deal with the points raised by Dr WONG. I will confess the procedure is not very satisfactory, Mr TO, but it is the best way forward given the present circumstances. My consent is needed for addresses under Standing Order 14, but under paragraph 5, no debate may arise upon those addresses.
SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS: Mr President, I am grateful for Dr the Honourable Samuel WONG’s comment on the Code of Practice which has been published to provide guidance for professionals to meet the Building (Energy Efficiency) Regulation.
Under the Buildings Ordinance, the Authorized Person (AP), who is a professional, is the co-ordinator of building works and he is required to certify plans and all documents and submit them to the Building Authority. Requiring a registered professional engineer to certify OTTV forms for submission could cause confusion in terms of the statutory responsibility of the AP.
Whereas an AP may not be directly conversant with all aspects of building services design such as lighting installations, air-conditioning systems, lifts and escalators, he is able and expected to consult an appropriate professional engineer where building works or installations beyond his competence are proposed in a building project. Experience indicates that this is generally
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995 3727
practised among all APs and has not presented any problem. There is therefore no reason to believe the professionalism in OTTV calculation and form completion cannot be secured in the same way.
The Administration has consulted widely on the Code of Practice before finalizing it for publication. The Building Subcommittee of the Land and Building Advisory Committee and the Authorised Persons and Registered Structural Engineers Committee were also consulted and the general view is that the existing arrangement whereby the AP co ordinates and certifies all submissions to the Building Authority is working satisfactorily.
Moreover, adding a mandatory requirement into the Code of Practice, as Dr Samuel WONG has suggested, is not legally permissible under the existing primary legislation. We would require additional enabling legislation to do so and this will inevitably delay the implementation of OTTV control which is already a “long-overdue” energy efficiency initiative in the building industry.
The Administration has taken note of Dr Samuel WONG’s concerns about a lack of annual reconfirmation of the competence of APs. We shall address these concerns in the Buildings Amendment (No. 2) Bill 1995 which we hope to introduce into this Council on 31 May 1995. The proposals included in the Bill facilitate the implementation of the principle of self regulation and continuing professional competence and will only allow registered professionals under the relevant professional Registration Ordinances to be qualified as candidates for registration as APs under the Buildings Ordinance.
As a result, the Administration does not intend to include, at this stage, in the Code of Practice a clause which requires completion and certification of the OTTV forms by a party other than the AP. Nevertheless, as Dr Samuel WONG has pointed out, the Administration does recognize the potential contribution by professional engineers to improving energy efficiency in building designs. We have, therefore, encouraged the use of such professional service in the Practice Note to Authorised Persons. It is our intention to review the existing control standard and arrangement after two years, and I can assure Dr Samuel WONG that his suggestion will be included as one of the review items.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS
Measures to Safeguard Foreign Exchange Reserves and Fiscal Reserves
1. DR PHILIP WONG asked (in Cantonese): In view of the depreciation of the US Dollar by a big margin, will the Government inform this Council whether the Hong Kong Monetary Authority has adopted any measures to
3728 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995
safeguard the territory’s foreign exchange reserves and fiscal reserves; if so, what these measures are; if not, why not?
FINANCIAL SECRETARY: Mr President, in its management of the Exchange Fund, the Monetary Authority pays close regard to market sentiment and expectations. Earlier this year, both of these pointed to the US dollar weakening, and the Monetary Authority has therefore been switching a modest proportion of the assets of the Fund out of US dollars and into DM and Yen.
However I would like to put these moves in perspective. The statutory purposes for which the Exchange Fund was created are basically “to affect ..... the exchange value of the currency of Hong Kong” and “to maintain the stability and integrity of the monetary and financial systems of Hong Kong”. In view of this, the management strategy the Monetary Authority pursues for the assets of the Exchange Fund places a very high degree of emphasis on liquidity and security of the assets.
The link of our currency to the US dollar, the fact that the Exchange Fund’s liabilities are all denominated in HK dollars and the need not to run unwarranted risks will mean that the proportion of US dollars in the Fund will remain relatively high. At the end of 1994, this proportion was 73%.
Within these constraints, we have brought the level down slightly, currently to about 70%. We have done so in a gradual manner because the Exchange Fund is a very substantial fund, and it would be counter-productive from an investment angle and potentially disruptive to the currency markets to move major parts of the Fund between currencies quickly.
I have full confidence in the professional capability of the Authority, with the guidance of the Exchange Fund Advisory Committee, to manage the Exchange Fund.
DR PHILIP WONG (in Cantonese): Mr President, as the depreciation of the US Dollar by a big margin could give rise to inflation, does the Government have any measures to reduce the inflationary pressures to be faced by the general public?
PRESIDENT: We are straying a bit from the question and answer.
FINANCIAL SECRETARY: Mr President, inflation is a matter of continuing concern to the Administration and, of course, the questioner is correct that the weaker US dollar and therefore the weaker HK dollar does have some implications for the price of imports and for inflation. We do not have any new measures to deal with inflation. I think the limitations on our ability to produce
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995 3729
innovations has been well debated in past Budget debates. We will continue to control government expenditure in line with the growth of the economy, I think that is a contribution. We will continue, when we look at revenue measures, to bear in mind the possible inflationary aspects, but I do not at this moment have any new ideas on that particular topic.
MR ROGER LUK: Mr President, in the third paragraph of his main answer, the Financial Secretary indicaated “the link of our currency to the US dollar, the fact that the Exchange Fund’s liabilities are all denominated in HK dollars and the need not to run unwarranted risks”, would the Financial Secretary explain how the depreciation of the US dollar against other currencies affects the position of our foreign exchange reserves?
FINANCIAL SECRETARY: Mr President, since the HK dollar is linked to the US dollar, there is no effect on the HK dollar value of US dollar denominated assets in the Exchange Fund. So if the dollar falls, it is the non-US dollar assets of the Fund which will tend to increase in value in HK dollar terms. In other words, other things being equal, which they seldom are, a falling dollar actually has the effect of increasing the asset value of the Fund, which is, as I say, in HK dollars.
MR RONALD ARCULLI: Mr President, in the second paragraph of his main answer, the Financial Secretary told us that one of the two purposes of the Exchange Fund was really to maintain the stability and integrity of the monetary and financial systems of Hong Kong. Would the Financial Secretary inform this Council if fixing the US dollar portion of the Exchange Fund at 73%, or currently at 70%, takes into account non-US dollars, non-HK dollar liabilities of the financial and monetary systems and if so, to what extent, and if not, why not?
FINANCIAL SECRETARY: Mr President, as I said in my main answer, the main factor in deciding the proportion of US dollars relates to those two purposes which are in the second paragraph. Of course, we also ensure that our assets cover our liabilities and that the currency in question is either the same or is hedged, so there is a full cover of assets over liabilities, which I have said are mostly in HK dollars.
I am not sure if that fully answers the question, Mr President, but that is, I think, the answer to the question.
MR CHIM PUI-CHUNG (in Cantonese): Mr President, at present, our non-staple foods are mainly supplied by China. If China resumes its status under the General Agreement on Tariff and Trade, will the Government consider pegging
3730 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995
part of our foreign exchange reserves to RMB to ensure a better equilibrium for various aspects in future?
FINANCIAL SECRETARY: Mr President, the answer is no. China of course would not have any role in deciding the policy of the Exchange Fund, whether in regard of currency or other matters.
DR HUANG CHEN-YA (in Cantonese): Mr President, I believe that our Exchange Fund, if calculated in terms of DM or yen, may have actually lost in value in the past year following the depreciation of the US Dollar. So, will the Financial Secretary tell us, first, how much our Exchange Fund, when calculated in terms of Yen or DM, has depreciated in actual value in the past year. Has it increased or decreased? Secondly, will any figure in terms of Yen or DM be given in future so that we can see whether the value of our Exchange Fund, when calculated in terms of these currencies, will actually have increased or decreased each year?
FINANCIAL SECRETARY: Mr President, insofar as I understood the first part of the question, I do not think I could possibly give the answer. I think it was a hypothetical question. If we had had all our money in, or perhaps the majority of our money, in Yen or DM, what would have been the effect on our balance at the end of the year; I obviously do not have that figure. I am not sure that it could be calculated either.
The second question, perhaps I could ask for that to be repeated.
PRESIDENT: Dr HUANG, repeat the second question.
DR HUANG CHEN-YA: Yes, Mr President. What I was after is simply that if we calculated the Exchange Fund in terms of the US dollar in the past financial year, the total value of the Exchange Fund seemed to have increased. But if we calculated it in terms of DM or Yen, then in fact it may be possible that the Exchange Fund may have actually lost value. So I wonder whether in future the Financial Secretary would consider giving us also the value of the Exchange Fund in terms of some foreign currency, such as DM or Yen, so that we can see actually the significance of the Exchange Fund in the international monetary system, instead of just in terms of the US dollar?
FINANCIAL SECRETARY: Mr President, of course if you wish simply to calculate the value of the Exchange Fund at the year end, it is a simple matter to convert US dollars into DM or Yen or any other currency you wish to convert it into. I am not sure that it would be of enormous interest because, after all,
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995 3731
we are interested here in Hong Kong dollars and US dollars primarily. That is partly a function of our role in relation to the currency and partly a function of the currency in which our liabilities are. But, as I say, it would be a very simple matter if anyone wishes to see the value in other currencies, simply to apply the current exchange rate. We would not have to do that for you.
Jailing of Illegal Immigrants
2. MR MARTIN BARROW asked: In regard to the jailing of illegal immigrants, will the Government inform this Council:
(a) of the percentage of illegal immigrants in the prison population, their average length of sentence, together with a breakdown of the offences committed;
(b) of the estimated annual cost of maintaining these illegal immigrants in jail;
(c) whether there is evidence that a jail sentence in the territory is more of a deterrent than immediate return to China; and
(d) whether the Government will review its policy of jailing those illegal immigrants whose only crime has been working here illegally, rather than sending them back to China?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President,
(a) As regards the first part of the question, there are about 3 300 illegal immigrants in prison. This accounts for approximately 26% of the total penal population of about 12 500.
72% of the illegal immigrants in prison were sentenced to periods ranging from one month to 18 months. The rest are serving sentences of more than 18 months.
It is our policy to prosecute illegal immigrants who are found at places of employment or who, in addition to having entered Hong Kong illegally, have committed other criminal offences. Against this background, the breakdown of offences committed by illegal immigrants who are now in prison is as follows:
(i) Unlawfully remaining in Hong Kong 41%
(ii) Other immigration offences (for example, possession of forged ID Card, using ID Card of another person)
35%
3732 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995 (iii) Offences against property 11%
(iv) Other offences (for example, murder, perjury, possession of arms and
ammunitions, dangerous drugs offences)
13%
(b) As regards the second part of the question, we do not keep separate statistics on the cost of maintaining illegal immigrants in prisons. The direct costs of maintaining the 3 300 illegal immigrants we now have in prison is, in very rough terms, about $22 million per year. This includes food, clothing, bedding, welfare and so on. It does not include staff costs because staff levels are determined with regard to certified prison accommodation and not the actual total numbers of prisoners in prison at any one time.
(c) On the third part of the question, we believe that for illegal immigrants whose principal purpose in coming to Hong Kong is to obtain employment here, the prospect of imprisonment is an additional deterrent to repatriation to China. However, there is no scientific research on which irrefutable evidence can be adduced.
(d) On the fourth part of the question, the Government will keep its overall policy towards illegal immigration under review. But, there is no plan to cease prosecuting those illegal immigrants found working in Hong Kong. Decisions on sentencing are, of course, a matter for the courts.
MR MARTIN BARROW: Mr President, with regard to paragraph (d) of the answer, would the Secretary agree that it is possibly timely to carry out a review of this policy, particularly regarding the 41% of illegal immigrants whose only crime is remaining unlawfully in Hong Kong; and if not, why not?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, we have no plans to change our prosecution policy because we believe it is right where there are aggravating circumstances, such as being found in a place of work, that a prosecution should follow.
MR LEE CHEUK-YAN (in Cantonese): Mr President, the Secretary for Security has clearly mentioned in his reply that about 3 300 illegal immigrants are serving sentence in prison. According to my calculation based on the breakdown of offences committed by those illegal immigrants, there are probably about 2 000 of them whose sentence is work related. Can the Secretary tell us how many of the employers of those 2 000 illegal immigrants have been prosecuted and imprisoned? Besides, have the Secretary considered that if the $22 million had been used to increase ......
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995 3733 PRESIDENT: Could we have one question at a time please, Mr LEE?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, I am afraid I am unable to break the figures down in that way at the present time. I shall have to provide a written response.
PRESIDENT: Could you repeat the question please, Mr LEE.
MR LEE CHEUK-YAN (in Cantonese): My question is: how many of the employers of those 2 000 illegal immigrants have been prosecuted and imprisoned?
PRESIDENT: Will you be able to supply an answer in writing, Secretary?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: I will. I actually have an answer on the employers who have been prosecuted.
PRESIDENT: Yes, I think that is what Mr LEE is seeking information about.
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: In 1994, we prosecuted 82 employers of illegal immigrants, most of them operators of construction firms. The average penalty against them was 15 months.
MRS ELSIE TU: Mr President, I am not concerned about the 59% who have committed criminal offences but I am deeply concerned about the 41% who are in prison simply because they were found working. May I ask why some illegal immigrants are treated differently from others and whether any of those who are in prison are waiting to be witnesses against others who have committed criminal offences?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: The question of illegal immigration is dealt with by the Government in a way which directs our resources in the most effective manner in order to deal with the situation. For the vast majority of illegal immigrants, that means immediate return to China, that is, about 90% are returned immediately to China. There are under 10% who have either committed a crime, as mentioned in the early part of my main answer, or who are found working. We deem it right to prosecute in cases where people having entered Hong Kong illegally for the purposes of exploiting Hong Kong either for economic or criminal purposes, should be brought to justice. The question
3734 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995
of whether illegal immigrants are held as witnesses, I believe in certain circumstances they are. We have reviewed our procedures for that and I do not believe that this is now a major problem for us.
PRESIDENT: Not answered, Mrs TU?
MRS ELSIE TU: No, just to ask how many are being held as witnesses.
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY Mr President, I will have to respond in writing to that question. (Annex I)
MR RONALD ARCULLI: Mr President, in paragraph (a) of the main answer, the Secretary has said that the illegal immigrant prison population is about 26% of the total penal population. Could he tell us whether this is an average figure over the years, and if we could have a breakdown to see whether in fact that 26% has actually moved, increased or reduced, so as to see whether or not imprisonment has in reality worked as a deterrent?
SECRETARTY FOR SECURITY: The figure provided in the first part of my main answer relates to a snapshot taken at the end of April this year. It represents the current situation. We do not at the moment have a moving figure for the number of illegal immigrants or the percentage of them over a longer period of time.
PRESIDENT: Yes, Mr ARCULLI, not answered?
MR RONALD ARCULLI: Mr President, I would have hoped that if any institution would keep records it would be the Correctional Services, as to what the prison population is and as to where they come from. So, I wonder, if the Secretary cannot give us an answer today, whether I could have one in writing?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, we will indeed attempt to provide an answer in writing. (Annex II) I should just like to point out that the Correctional Services Department maintains its records on the basis of the crime for which a person has been imprisoned. It is not an easy matter for them to determine whether someone who has committed a robbery, for example, is also an illegal immigrant. But with a bit of work, we should be able to do that.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995 3735
MS ANNA WU: Of those employers prosecuted and the illegal immigrants comprising the 41% of the unlawfully remaining in Hong Kong category, does the Secretary have statistics on offenders prosecuted more than once?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, the number of illegal immigrants who have been prosecuted more than once, and that means of course that they have entered Hong Kong at least twice because merely entering on the first occasion does not bring about a prosecution, amounts to about 14% of those now in prison. 14% have been imprisoned before.
PRESIDENT: Ms WU, not answered?
MS ANNA WU: The other part, Mr President, which relates to employers prosecuted. Are there statistics on employers being prosecuted more than once for the same sort of offence?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, we do not have those statistics to hand but I will attempt to answer that in writing. (Annex III)
DR YEUNG SUM (in Cantonese): Mr President, the intention or motive of the Government’s policy to imprison those illegal immigrants found working in Hong Kong was to make it work as a deterrent, but in paragraph (c) of the main reply, the Government said that there was no scientific research on which such evidence could be adduced, what then was the basis of the Government’s policy?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, we try to deal with the illegal immigration situation in the most pragmatic and effective way we can and as I said earlier, for the most part, for 90% of illegal immigrants, that means immediate return. We feel that it is right to deal with those who seek work here in Hong Kong, by prosecuting them because it is, I think, a matter of common sense rather than of scientific deduction that if somebody who is bent on earning a living or gaining some economic advantage from his activities is removed from the scene by being imprisoned, he is no longer in a position to return and find work again. That in itself is a deterrent. The remaining aspects of deterrents are of course those which apply to all prisoners, the stigma of having been in prison, the hardship of being there and the inconvenience posed thereby.
MRS PEGGY LAM (in Cantonese): Mr President, how many of the 3 300 illegal immigrants have been imprisoned more than once? Will their past record of imprisonment affect their sentence?
3736 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: I am not in a position directly to answer the way in which courts reach their decisions, but I would imagine that any judge or magistrate would have regard to those sort of factors.
MR JIMMY MCGREGOR: Mr President, can the Secretary say in answer to the enquiry made by Mr BARROW whether such second offenders attract heavier sentences than first offenders and so on, because I believe some of these prisoners have been here many times and have been prosecuted many times?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, yes, indeed some illegal immigrants do return to Hong Kong on multiple occasions. I have no hard evidence at my fingertips at this time as to how their sentences progress on each return, but I would imagine that magistrates do have regard to that factor.
MR JAMES TO (in Cantonese): Mr President, the Democratic Party will continue to support the Government’s policy to prosecute and imprison those illegal immigrants found working in Hong Kong as a means of deterrence. However, an interesting situation has arisen. As mentioned in paragraph (c) of the reply, illegal immigrants come to Hong Kong chiefly for the purpose of obtaining employment; if they are sentenced to prison, it seems that they can receive wages. Hence, it is interesting to note that the wages obtained by an illegal immigrant over more than 10 months in prison would be considerable. Does the Government think it necessary to consider this problem?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, we do not have any intention at the present time of reviewing the remuneration of prisoners while they are imprisoned.
Hong Kong Academy of Medicine
3. DR CONRAD LAM asked: It is essential to maintain a high standard of specialist medical care in the territory after the termination of reciprocal recognition of professional qualifications with the rest of the British Commonwealth in 1997. The organization responsible for this function is the Hong Kong Academy of Medicine. In this regard, will the Administration inform this Council:
(a) whether the Hong Kong Academy of Medicine has or has not been established and is or is not functioning; and
(b) if so, whether the Academy has established ties with relevant professional bodies in England, Australia and the United States, on
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995 3737 which the territory has so far depended for specialist medical training?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr President, the Hong Kong Academy of Medicine Ordinance was enacted on 25 June 1992 and came into effect on 1 August 1992 to establish the Hong Kong Academy of Medicine as an independent statutory body. An interim Council of the Academy was appointed by the Acting Governor with effect from the latter date.
At its inauguration on 9 December 1993, Fellows were admitted into the Academy from 12 specialty medical Colleges and two Faculties. A Council of the Academy was elected from among its own members to replace the interim Council appointed by the Governor.
The regulations drafted by the Academy were approved by this Council on 30 March 1994. The Academy has also passed its own by-laws.
The Academy has established ties with relevant professional organizations in the United Kingdom and in Australia.
In short, the Academy has been established and is functioning, although much work still needs to be done.
DR CONRAD LAM: Mr President, in relation to the second paragraph in the answer given by the Secretary for Health and Welfare, it is widely known in the medical profession in Hong Kong that current membership in the Hong Kong Academy of Medicine consists solely of a group of about 2 000 Foundation Fellows whose admission has not been empowered by the Hong Kong Academy of Medicine Ordinance and that the current Council of the Academy has been elected by this group of Foundation Fellows. I have received legal advice that neither the Foundation Fellowship, nor the Council membership, is legal. Clearly the Academy has not been properly established. Would the Administration further inform this Council whether it is aware of this situation and if so, what precise steps it intends to take to rectify the situation?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr President, I am not aware of the matter referred to by the Honourable Member, but since he has raised this today, I shall certainly refer it to the President of the Academy.
MR MOSES CHENG: I want to follow up on the election of the Council to replace the interim Council. I was given to understand that the members of the Academy responsible for electing the Council are the Foundation Fellows who are not provided for or regulated under the ordinance. In such circumstances, it might have invalidated the Council elected to replace the interim Council.
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Will the Secretary for Health and Welfare confirm that this possible problem will be looked into and suitable steps will be taken to rectify the same accordingly?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Until a specific problem is established, I think it would be inappropriate to speculate on the possible steps that might be necessary to remedy the situation. But I shall certainly refer the matter to the President of the Academy for his consideration.
MISS CHRISTINE LOH: I would like to have a point of clarification from the Secretary. The question assumes that reciprocal recognition of professional qualifications within the British Commonwealth, in view of 1997, will have to terminate. I would like to know whether that is the case because I believe these reciprocal arrangements are not a matter of sovereignty but a matter with the various medical professions?
And secondly, in the fourth paragraph, it is stated that the Academy has established ties with the relevant professional organizations in the United Kingdom and Australia. I wonder whether ties are the same as reciprocal recognition?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: I can confirm to the Honourable Member that reciprocal arrangements are a matter for the Academy. As for ties, they range from informal links to very formal links. What I have is a list of the links with international bodies which the Academy has established since its foundation and I shall be pleased to provide the full list to the Honourable Member. (Annex IV) It is a list of something like 40 organizations.
PRESIDENT: Miss LOH, not answered?
MISS CHRISTINE LOH: No, Mr President. Perhaps a yes or no answer will do. The first question is: Is it taken for granted that links with the British Commonwealth medical associations with which one has reciprocal recognition must end in view of 1997? I think a yes or no answer will do.
And secondly, maybe the Secretary can clarify that ties do not mean reciprocal recognition?
PRESIDENT: Are you in a position to answer yes or no, Secretary?
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995 3739
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: I shall need to check the accuracy of the data before I can reply to the Honourable Member. I shall reply in writing. (Annex V)
DR LEONG CHE-HUNG: Mr President, the Academy of Medicine is a statutory body and obviously it has the blessing of the Government. Its main aim is to establish and promote postgraduate, and I stress postgraduate, education, What plans in relation to resources, both financial and manpower, will the Government pump into this body to ensure that the aim of this body is met with and that Hong Kong will be able to train adequately, both in quality and quantity, its own medical specialists?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr President, a contribution of up to $10 million has been pledged to assist in the construction of the headquarters of the Academy on the basis of $1 million from the Government for every $10 million raised by the Academy. So far $4 million has been contributed by the Government. We have also provided a site at nominal premium.
PRESIDENT: Yes, Dr LEONG?
DR LEONG CHE-HUNG: I do not think my question has been answered. Mr President, I am talking about the money that the Government will put in for training purposes. In other words, will there be additional manpower for training and so on?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: The Academy will be coming to the Government shortly to ask the Government whether it requires any assistance in funding any of its training.
MISS EMILY LAU (in Cantonese): Mr President, I would like to ask a follow-up question on Dr K C LAM’s. I am quite surprised to hear that the Government does not even know that there is some legal problem concerning the establishment of the Hong Kong Academy of Medicine, as this is a hot topic in town. Mr President, would the Government inform us of the relationship between the Government and the Hong Kong Academy of Medicine, and that what is the body responsible for monitoring the Academy’s operation?
3740 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: I would like to answer the second part of the question first. The Academy is an independent statutory body. The Government is not represented on this Academy. Nor does the Government take a direct interest in monitoring the actions of this body.
PRESIDENT: Miss LAU, not answered?
MISS EMILY LAU (in Cantonese): Mr President, it is really very simple. If there is some legal problem concerning the establishment of this statutory body, is it not necessary for the Government to proceed with monitoring and take necessary action? Everyone is talking about it and everyone knows it. Why is it that the Secretary has told us that she is not aware of the problem?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: As I said earlier on, until a specific problem in either the Academy or the current legislation is established, it would not be appropriate to speculate on the possible steps necessary to remedy such a problem which may or may not exist.
MRS MIRIAM LAU: Mr President, in the formation of important public bodies such as the Mass Transit Railway Corporation or the Preparatory Committee on Chinese Medicine, the Government commonly sends a senior representative to ensure that the final body is formed properly and in the public interest. Can the Secretary for Health and Welfare inform this Council whether this is also the case in the case of the preparatory body for formation of the Hong Kong Academy of Medicine? If not, why not? And if such a representative was sent, and if the complaint just lodged by Dr LAM Kui-chun was substantiated in that the Academy has not been legally formed, then will the Secretary investigate and find out whether the representative so sent had any role to play in causing or allowing such error to occur?
PRESIDENT: Yes, I think the question went to the legality of the Council, not of the Academy, Mrs LAU.
MRS MIRIAM LAU: Not of the Council but of the Government’s representative, if there was one sent to the preparatory committee for the Academy. Not the Academy itself nor the Council itself.
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr President, the ordinance was set up in 1992 and came into effect in August of that year to establish the Hong Kong Academy of Medicine. I shall need to research my files in order to
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995 3741
find out whether the Government did or did not send any representative or took any role in the preparation of the Academy.
DR LEONG CHE-HUNG: Perhaps before I ask this question I have to declare my interest as the Vice President of this body. (Laughter) The last few months have seen members of the medical profession challenging the status of the body by writing to the press, attempting to take up legal actions, approaching the Hong Kong Government and also attempting to approach foreign consulate officers. Could the Administration inform this Council of the legality of this body, once and for all, and it is the Government’s policy to leave the professions to deal with their own standard setting?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: I have yet to be convinced that there is anything illegal about the Academy. Until that is established, it would be premature to speculate on what is or what might not be a problem.
DR LEONG CHE-HUNG: My second question is not answered, Mr President. PRESIDENT: Yes, Dr LEONG.
DR LEONG CHE-HUNG: The second question is that, is it the Government’s policy to leave the professions to deal with their own standard setting?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: It has always been the Government’s policy to leave the professions to set their own professional standards.
Election of Village Representatives in the New Territories
4. WONG WAI-YIN asked (in Cantonese): regarding the election of village representatives (VRs) in the New Territories, will the Government inform this Council:
(a) of the villages in the New Territories which have elected their VRs under the one-person-one-vote system, as well as the villages which have not elected their VRs under this system, as at the end of March this year;
(b) of the villages which have not yet elected their VRs, together with the reasons giving rise to this state of affairs; and
3742 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995
(c) when and how the Government will require all villages to adopt the one person-one-vote system in the election of VRs, and whether a timetable will be set?
SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS (in Cantonese): Mr President, there are 691 villages in the New Territories. As I explained to this Council in my written reply to Hon CHEUNG Man-kwong’s question at the sitting on 23 November 1994, since the Heung Yee Kuk promulgated its one-person-one-vote rule on village representative elections, we have been actively promoting compliance of the new rule by the 555 villages under 25 Rural Committees in the New Territories which had yet to hold elections. Since at that time the Shatin and Tai Po Rural Committees were already organising their elections, this figure does not include the 136 villages under these two Rural Committees.
(a) On the first question: Of the 555 villages concerned, 396 villages have by the end of March this year held election of their village representatives in accordance with the Heung Yee Kuk’s model rules. The position has further improved during the last month. During the month of April, an addition of 22 villages have completed their village representative elections on the new rules, thus bringing the total number to 418 villages.
Of the remaining 137 villages, 108 villages will be holding their new village representative elections in compliance with the Heung Yee Kuk’s model rules.
In summary, therefore, 526 out of the 555 villages concerned have by now held or will hold village representative elections under the “one-person-one vote” rule. The Heung Yee Kuk can rightly regarded this as a significant achievement in less than one year.
(b) On the second question: As stated above, 137 villages have yet to hold VR elections. Of these, only a small number, 29, have yet to accept the new rules. Given the NT residents’ respect for established customs and traditions, it should not be of surprise to find that a small number of them still holds an entrenched attitude for traditional practices. On village representative elections, the residual small number is a good reflection of the combined efforts between the Government, Heung Yee Kuk, and the Rural Committees in this joint endeavour. We should of course also thank Members of this Council for their support. I can assure Members that we will continue to persevere to persuade the remaining villages to comply with the model rules. Discussions are in progress and I understand that the prospects are good.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995 3743
(c) On the third question regarding timetable, we anticipate that 47 of the 108 villages will hold their elections in the coming two months. This will be followed by further 42 and 19 in the third and fourth quarters of this year, respectively. We will continue to step up promotional and educational activities in these villages to ensure that the targets are met.
MR WONG WAI-YIN (in Cantonese): Mr President, at the meetings of the Home Affairs Panel, we have been pressing for a name list indicating which villages have adopted the one-person-one-vote system in electing their village representatives (VRs) and which have not. But the Government has failed to comply. Though I raised an oral question on this issue today during this Council sitting, the Government still would not provide us with a list of the villages. Even if the Secretary for Home Affairs is unable to provide the list now, I hope he will do so in a written reply later. Mr President, my follow-up question is that in paragraph (b) of the main reply, it has pointed out that there are 137 villages which have not ......
PRESIDENT: One question at a time please, Mr WONG. You have had one question.
SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS (in Cantonese): Mr President, in fact the list of villages is in my hand. But I did not read out the name of every village because it would take about 30 minutes to read out so many names. And according to my understanding, the original question of Mr WONG asked for a list of these villages, but that part was eventually changed and deleted. So we thought Mr WONG did not need it anymore. If Mr WONG really wants to have the list, I think the best way will be to give it to Members in a written reply. (Annex VI)
PRESIDENT: Do continue, Mr WONG.
MR WONG WAI-YIN (in Cantonese): Mr President, my question is to ask for the names of the villages, not the number. In paragraph (b) of the main reply, it said that amongst the 137 villages which have yet to hold VR elections, 29 seem to be too “head-strong” to accept the new rule of one-person-one-vote. Could we be informed whether the Government will set a reasonable and specific timetable by which the 137 villages, including the 29 which have yet to accept the one-person-one-vote system, should hold VR elections in compliance with the new rule; whether the Secretary can assure us that he will not affirm the status of those VRs who are not elected in accordance with the one-person-one-vote system?
3744 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995
SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS (in Cantonese): Mr President, I have made it clear in my main reply that of the remaining 137 villages, 108 villages have promised that their village representative elections will be held in compliance with the new rules within this year. In my reply, I have also given a detailed account of their elections, which I am not going to repeat. Of the remaining 29 villages, I have also mentioned that we are still persuading them. But I am confident that they will adopt the new election model in the near future because our promotion work has been quite successful. As is well-known, many of the New Territories people differ from us in traditional practices and viewpoints. I think it is not bad to have achieved this result in just one year’s time. Of the remaining 29 villages, I think, at the present stage, it is not necessary to make it a rule that they have to abide by this election model within a specified time. On the contrary, we should give them more time so that we, with the joint efforts of Heung Yee Kuk, can actively continue to persuade the VRs and the rural committees concerned. We will step up explaining to them in order to win their support. I think this is a more effective way.
PRESIDENT: Yes, Mr WONG, not answered?
MR WONG WAI-YIN (in Cantonese): Mr President, the other major question raised by me is: Can the Secretary assure us that he will certainly not affirm any VR who is not elected under the one-person-one-vote system?
SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS (in Cantonese): Mr President, as pointed out by Mr WONG, we have discussed this topic at the meetings of the Home Affairs Panel of this Council. Mr WONG has raised the same question at these meetings and I have already answered it. Perhaps, I should repeat what I have said. If the VRs are elected not according to one-person-one-vote system, I will exercise discretion to determine whether or not their status should be affirmed by considering the situation at that time. I was asked by some Members at the meeting why I could not given an outright refusal. The reason is that when I exercise discretion, I cannot just ignore the situation when the election is held. I have to consider each case on an individual basis. Otherwise, it would be a perversion of administrative justice.
PRESIDENT: I have got five supplementary questions here and I think I will have to draw the line at that point.
DR YEUNG SUM (in Cantonese): Mr President, as both the Government and Heung Yee Kuk have accepted the principle of one-person-one-vote, will the Government explain how it will put it into practice, thereby ensuring that the VRs are elected in compliance with the rules?
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995 3745
SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS (in Cantonese): Mr President, through Heung Yee Kuk and the rural committees under it, we will explain to the villagers concerned the idea behind this principle by means of persuasion, and we will also point out to them the reason why we have to adopt this principle, which is to ensure that these villages are not out of line with other parts of Hong Kong. After more than six months’ joint efforts, we have got some achievements now. As I have just said, 29 villages have not been persuaded to accept this model of election. But we will keep on persuading them. In the meantime, if they encounter any difficulties, in registration of voters, for example, we will assist them in promotion and registration works by providing them with resources and manpower.
MISS CHRISTINE LOH (in Cantonese): Mr President, can the Secretary inform us whether it is an infringement of human rights if some villages do not allow their women to vote in compliance with the rules of one-person-one-vote? If not, why not? If there is such a case, is it necessary to enact legislation to enable all indigenous women to vote?
SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS (in Cantonese): Mr President, according to information we now have, we have not received any complaint that village women have been forbidden to take part in any election. Had we received such a kind of complaint in the past, we would have invalidated the election results and ordered a new one to be held. Up till now, we have not received any complaint of this kind.
REV FUNG CHI-WOOD (in Cantonese): Mr President, the Secretary has repeatedly stated that the Government will continue to persuade and advise the remaining 29 villages to comply with the one-person-one-vote system. According to his timetable, it seems difficult to have the 29 villages successfully persuaded within this year. Will the Secretary inform us how long he is prepared to wait for the villagers’ change of attitude and how much tolerance he can show? Will it be three years or four years before he reconsiders the issue?
SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS (in Cantonese): Mr President, perhaps I have greater tolerance than Honourable FUNG. But I believe the efficiency of our office is not low. Up to the present, we are still actively promoting the model rules. As I have just said, I cherish high hopes that our promotion work will soon bear fruit and the remaining 29 villages will promise to hold elections in compliance with the one-person-one-vote system.
3746 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995
MR LEE WING-TAT (in Cantonese): Mr President, due to poor timing, the chairmen of all rural committees had been elected before the end of April, and they have thus become the ex officio members of the district boards. If these villages had not held VR elections under the one-person-one-vote system before the end of April, the former VRs could become candidates in Rural Committee chairmen elections. In other words, there are many rural committee chairmen, who are also ex officio members of the district boards, whose background is mostly not built on the one-person-one-vote system. Can the Secretary inform us whether the Government agrees to this? Has the Government considered to make it a rule that the background of all rural committee chairmen, that is the background of the VRs, be built on the system of one-person-one-vote? If not, how can the Government ensure that the election principles such as openness, fairness and equality of sexes as mentioned by the Governor are complied with?
SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS (in Cantonese): Mr President, I hope Members will understand that what we are talking about is a transitional arrangement which allows an old system to transfer to be a new one. In the past, our long-established practice has not been challenged. This model has been adopted for a long time in electing VRs. Then amongst the VRs, the chairmen of rural committees are elected, who then participate in various district boards in the New Territories in the capacity of Chairmen of rural committees. Such practice has been well accepted. Of course, as a new situation has emerged, we should have some transitional arrangement. If new rules for electing VRs are not adopted because of poor timing, we, of course, hope that there will be a complete change in the next election. However, as I have just said, some villages have already adopted the new rules though to a different extent, in various elections held by the rural committees. So we cannot say that they lack such background. Of course, it would be most ideal if timing is so good that all VRs are elected under the new rules. Nevertheless, we hope that this can be put into practice in the next election.
MR CHIM PUI-CHUNG (in Cantonese): Mr President, when I was the Member on Roster Duty, I received a complaint from a certain village. After hearing what the Secretary has said, I would like to know when some villages have divergent opinions on their VRs or on other problems, whether the Government will eliminate such divergence by exercising its legal power? If not, will the Government amend the relevant legislation to enhance its legal power?
SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS (in Cantonese): Mr President, the existing Heung Yee Kuk Ordinance has already provided a sufficient legal basis on which the Secretary for Home Affairs is empowered to exercise his discretion. So I think that amendment to the Ordinance is unnecessary.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995 3747 Benzene Volatilized from Petrol Stations
5. MRS PEGGY LAM asked (in Cantonese): According to a survey conducted in Happy Valley, the amount of benzene volatilized from petrol stations in the district is higher than the recommended acceptable level of 16ug/m3 in Britain. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council whether:
(a) there are provisions in existing legislation governing the amount of benzene volatilized within the compound of a petrol station as well as the distance between a petrol station and residential premises; if not, whether the Government will consider introducing legislation to specify the distance between a petrol station and residential premises so as to ensure the safety of the public; and
(b) the Government has considered the effects of such gases on the health of the public, as well as the effects on residential premises in the event of an outbreak of fire in petrol stations?
SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS (in Cantonese): Mr President, I would first of all wish to thank the Honourable Mrs Peggy LAM for giving me the opportunity of replying to my first Legislative Council question in my new post. I am sure there will be many such occasions in future. I shall try my best to reply to Members’ questions in a frank and detailed manner.
The question raised by the Honourable Mrs Lam refers to benzene levels in petrol stations. The standard for benzene quoted by her is proposed by an expert panel in United Kingdom. on the basis that such a level represents an exceedingly small risk to health. Surveys carried out by the Environmental Protection Department show that the general ambient and roadside benzene level in Hong Kong is only about 3-7 ug/m3. Measurements taken near other petrol filling stations also show that, except for two instances of excess, the benzene levels are in general within the proposed limit.
Our laws at present do not control the amount of benzene volatilized within petrol stations. However, the local oil industry has agreed to keep the benzene level in automotive petrol below 5%. This limit is in line with those adopted in Europe, Australia and Japan. Our fuel surveys show that the oil industry has always kept to the agreement and the average benzene content for leaded petrol is 3.2% and unleaded petrol 3.4%.
We do nevertheless have regulations governing the sites of petrol filling stations and their distance with residential premises. The Hong Kong Planning Standards and Guidelines require fire safety consideration to be taken in selecting any site for a petrol filling station, so as to ensure that there are adequate space to permit safe location of tanks, vent pipes, tank fitting point,
3748 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995
tank vehicle off-loading stands, pumps and dispensers in relation to both the operation of the station and safety of adjacent premises. In general, petrol filling stations should be situated on open ground or at acceptable areas within commercial or industrial buildings. They will not be allowed inside residential buildings. In addition, the Fire Services Department administers the licensing of petrol filling stations vigorously under the Dangerous Goods Ordinance and in line with the Marketing Safety Code issued by the Institute of Petroleum. Tank openings and dispensers should be located so that their centre lines are not less than 4.25m from any fixed source of ignition or from the boundary of the premises. Where such safety distance cannot be provided, stringent fire protection measures such as automatic foam water spray system and complete separation from other parts of buildings by materials having a fire resisting period of four hours are required.
With regard to health risk, studies in overseas countries indicate that repeated long term exposure to high benzene concentration, particularly in confined spaces, may result in death or leukaemia. I must emphasize, however, such cases would occur under high concentration and long period of exposure. A release of benzene in a single incident from a low concentration compound in our petrol will not give rise to significant health risks. The main concern associated with petrol filling stations is fire safety, and as I have said earlier, we already have very stringent controls in this regard.
MRS PEGGY LAM (in Cantonese): Mr President, first of all, I would like to welcome Mr Bowen LEUNG as the Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands. I would also like to thank him for giving the first of his reply in this Council in great detail today.
It is mentioned in paragraph 5 of the main reply that repeated long period of exposure to high benzene concentration, particularly in confined areas, may result in death on leukaemia. According to a test conducted by the Environmental Protection Department on 22 and 33 March this year, the amount of benzene in the three rooms of an old people’s home in Happy Valley was 26 µg to 59 µ/m3. Will the Government tell us whether it is hazardous to health with the ambient benzene level being four times higher than the level of 16 µ/m3 suggested by the expert panel in Britain. If the answer is yes, what measures has the Government been prepared to take to improve the situation?
SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS (in Cantonese): Mr President, first of all, I would like to point out that the data of that survey of the Environmental Protection Department was drawn on the basis of a very minor sample chosen at random in a very short period of time. The data was not the result of a long-term and detailed study. In this connection, I think we have to spend a longer period of time on observation before determining whether or not we can draw a conclusion from the data of the Environmental Protection Department, and those are the data that the
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995 3749
Honourable Mrs Peggy LAM referred to just now. On the whole, data show that the benzene level in Britain is in fact a lot higher than that in Hong Kong. It is on average 10 times higher than the standard at certain randomly chosen areas. At present, the benzene level in Hong Kong is 3 µg to 7 µ/m3 on average, which is far lower than that in Britain. That sample in Happy Valley of which the benzene level goes beyond the standard may just be one or two exceptions. We will not be satisfied and will continue to monitor the situation.
However, as I mentioned earlier on, it will be hazardous to our health only if we are subjected to long period of exposure to high benzene concentration. In fact, from the experience in foreign countries, such a case will come up only in a room where pure benzene is constantly released and workers are working in that room for years and years. The case will be very different if the room is a well-ventilated one. Therefore, we can come to a conclusion consisting of two points: Firstly, even with a measurement of some 20 µg/m3, the benzene level is still very low; secondly, there will be such a case only under long period of exposure in a confined area. At present, according to our information, there has not been any problem of this sort in Hong Kong.
MISS CHRISTINE LOH: I would like to ask the Secretary whether, in view of his response in the fifth paragraph and just his oral answer a minute ago, the workers who work in petrol stations are in any way protected?
SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS: Mr President, if I could answer in this way. All petrol filling stations in the world, by their design and fire services and other requirements, are open areas. And not just the experience in Hong Kong but also the experience in almost all other places in the world, workers working in petrol filling stations are not accounted for as working in a high risk benzene environment and as far as we are aware, no petrol filling stations in the world require their staff to have protective measures because of their working in petrol filling stations. In fact, the measurements taken in most petrol filling stations — I would say in all petrol filling stations in the world — have come down to the calculation or measurement that the benzene level is so low that it does not affect the health of workers by the fact of it being benzene.
MR PETER WONG: Mr President, benzene together with other polyaromatic hydrocarbons (PAH) in petrol and diesel, have been quoted in scientific literature as being harmful to people’s health. Are there any standards for PAH for Hong Kong? And also, can the Secretary confirm that normal breathing masks are useless against benzene and PAH vapour?
3750 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995
SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS: Mr President, I think it is a bit sensitive to talk about breathing apparatus in the light of world news. But as I said in my previous reply, the standards of benzene content arising from petrol filling stations are so low that workers there are not required to have protective breathing apparatus because of their work. This is actually controlled at source, basically, because of the benzene level in the petrol and also the requirement for vehicles to switch off their engines while they fill petrol. So, as I say, there is no need to wear breathing apparatus.
MR PETER WONG: Mr President, my question is not on benzene alone, it is the polyaromatic hydrocarbon which has a level of about four or five times that of benzene and is much more toxic.
SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS: Mr President, I can only draw on the experience of all other countries. Again, as I said in my earlier reply, all petrol filling stations are in fact open areas. We have yet to see any conclusive study in any part of the world regarding petrol filling stations, that their staff — I mean petrol filling workers — would need to wear breathing apparatus. But we will be quite prepared to keep on monitoring the results or data from other countries to see whether they are applicable to Hong Kong.
Use of Chinese in Government Departments
6. MR MAN SAI-CHEONG (in Cantonese): In view of the fact that Chinese and English are both official languages under the Official Languages Ordinance and Article 9 of the Basic Law, can the Administration in form this Council of the specific timetable to fully implement the use of Chinese in government departments; if so, what the details are, and whether it will adopt a periodic review of the progress; if not, why not?
SECRETARY FOR THE CIVIL SERVICE (in Cantonese): Mr President, under the Official Languages Ordinance of 1974, both Chinese and English are our official languages for the purposes of communication between the Government and members of the public. In this context, the public has long been able to deal with the Government in either Chinese or English.
The priority for us now is to further extend the use of Chinese internally within the Government, in line with the social and politicial development of Hong Kong. Our ultimate objective is a civil service which is bi-literate (Chinese and English) and tri-lingual (Cantonese, Putonghua and English). When that stage is reached, officers could deal with each other in English or Chinese without having to go through translation or interpretation. We have
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995 3751
already laid a modest foundation in that Chinese is increasingly used in notices, circulars and correspondence with junior officers; and so is Cantonese at meetings.
A Working Group has been established recently under my chairmanship to develop a practical and pro-active strategy to achieve the above objective. It has to-date:
(a) advised on the early introduction of a language proficiency requirement at a pass in a Chinese subject in the Hong Kong Certificate of Education Examination (HKCEE) for permanent and pensionable appointments to all grades with entry requirement at five passes in the HKCEE or higher qualifications. This we have implemented;
(b) recommend further steps to enhance the use of Chinese in the day-to-day management of the Civil Service, for example:
- appraisal reports on junior staff;
- proceedings of internal meetings;
- invitations to selection interviews and appointment letters for the junior ranks; and
- valedictory letters.
(c) identified a number of departments such as Housing and Home Affairs for a pilot scheme to develop practical steps to promote on a systematic basis the wider use of Chinese;
(d) identified the need for a change of the language culture in the civil service, particularly among bi-lingual officers whose competence in Chinese might have deteriorated through lack of practice;
(e) identified the need to step up training for both local and overseas officers in their language skills. All local Administrative Officers would be required to undergo basic Putonghua training by 1997. Already those who are on probation are required to achieve a certain standard in Putonghua before their confirmation. Starting from this year, new recruits will have to attend courses in written Chinese to update them on their ability to write modern practical Chinese relevant to their work. Overseas permanent and pensionable officers who have opted to remain in service after 1997 will be given intensive training in Cantonese and where practical in written Chinese;
3752 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995
(f) highlighted the need for technology support in terms of the provision and standardisation of hardware and software for Chinese word processing throughout the civil service;
(g) identified the need to train over 13 000 General Grades staff mainly typists and secretaries in the next three years in Chinese word processing skills; and
(h) advised on the need to bid for resources in the 1996-97 estimates to implement these ideas.
As can be seen from the above account, the approach is necessarily evolutionary. We have to take account of the fact that English has so far been the major medium of communication, the varying standards of Chinese among civil servants, the nature of work and circumstances of different departments, as well as the need to strike the right balance so that the greater use of Chinese would not be at the expense of English nor efficiency. It is therefore not possible to give a specific timetable as requested by the Honourable Man Sai cheong. We will however keep the Public Serivce Panel of this Council informed of progress as the Working Group moves along.
MR MAN SAI-CHEONG (in Cantonese): Mr President, first of all, I am pleased that the the Secretary for the Civil Service has set an example by using Chinese to answer my question which was asked in Chinese. But regrettably, there is no specific timetable to implement the policy concerned in his reply. Has the Administration ever fully reviewed the present situation? It is the existing practice of many governemnt departments, such as the Companies Registry or various levels of courts, that the legal documents or legal forms which closely concern the public are required to be written or filled out in English, otherwise they will not be accepted. If the Administration does not thoroughly conduct a comprehensive review of the situation, work out a specific timetable and adopt a periodic review of the progress, how can it say that it has the determination, sincerity and steps to fully implement the bilingual policy mentioned by the Secretary for the Civil Service?
SECRETARY FOR THE CIVIL SERVICE (in Cantonese): Mr President, first of all, as far as a timetable is concerned, I think the crux of the matter is not whether there is a specific timetable but whether we have taken any action. Positively speaking, in the eight courses of action that I have listed just now, there are already concrete steps in promoting the use of Chinese. And together with the continual operation of the Working Group, we are sure that the bilingual policy will be implemented in the Hong Kong Government in order to be in line with and to follow the social developments and trends in this respect. For instance, most of the meetings of this Council are now conducted bilingually. We are already adapting to it gradually.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995 3753
The Honourable MAN Sai-cheong also mentioned about the practice of the Companies Registry. The Companies Ordinance provides that forms submitted should only be completed in English, and this is a fact. Besides, the Trade Marks Ordinance also has the same shortcoming. In this connection, I would like to raise a point. First, the Administration has already proposed an amendment to the Companies Ordinance which is now being deliberated by this Council. Once the amendment is agreed to, all the legal forms can be filled out in either Chinese or English. In regard to the Trade Marks Ordinance, as far as I know, the Intellectual Property Department is now drafting a Trade Marks (Amendment) Bill. Once it is carried, both Chinese and English can be used.
MR ALFRED TSO (in Cantonese): Mr President, I very much agree that action speaks louder than words. But action can be fast and can also be slow. And speeding up action is our common aspiration. In this area, we as Legislative Members have to deal with a lot of residents’ appeals and cases. As we write to the governemnt departments concerned on behalf of the residents to reflect their cases or for follow-up action, we often receive replies from some government departments written in English mentioning that the Chinese translation of the letter will be provided later. Can the Administration inform this Council whether the Civil Service Branch will take practical action to encourage replying in Chinese or even issue instructions so that when civil servants are handling problems at district level concerning persons who use Chinese, Chinese replies should be given before providing the English translated versions? This is a practical action in promoting the use of Chinese in replies and in using it as the language of operation in government departments.
SECRETARY FOR THE CIVIL SERVICE (in Cantonese): Mr President, as I have mentioned in my main reply, we have to change the language habits of the civil service. At present, as most civil servants have been dealing with documents largely written in English ever since they were employed, they are accustomed to using English when handling the documents, and this is a fact. We still have a lot of colleagues who do not know Chinese and so, habitually, not much Chinese has been used. Their competence in Chinese is thus bound to deteriorate. Upon receipt of a letter from the public, English is usually used in the reply while a Chinese translation is to be arranged later. I think definitely this practice has to be changed. But the change cannot come about overnight. In regard to how this can be done, first of all, upon receipt of a letter written in Chinese, if the colleague concerned can reply in Chinese, it will be unnecessary to provide an English version and translation can also be waived. If the file is handled by a colleague who does not know Chinese, translation will only be provided when necessary. We have been very positive in choosing a few departments to take part in the pilot scheme. We are very pleased that there are already two departments, which have the most contact with the public, willing to join the pilot scheme. As far as I know, Chinese has already been used by the Housing Department when replying to the residents’ letters written in Chinese.
3754 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995
MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): Mr President, my question is similar to the one raised by the Honourable Alfred TSO. When handling some problems at the district level, I can see that many replies from government departments are written in English with a Chinese translation provided later, or even without a Chinese translation. As a matter of fact, this practice has wasted a lot of governemnt resources as well as the time and efforts of civil servants, because the letters concerned have to be translated and then be sent out again. From the angle of practical need, in fact, it is basically unnecessary for the government departments concerned to send the English replies after the Chinese ones have been sent. This will certainly help in saving human resources of the Government to a certain extent. In this connection, I would like to know if the Secretary for the Civil Service will consider issuing instructions to the front-line officers, particularly those working at district level, that only Chinese will be used in replying to letters written in Chinese. This can save a lot of time and is more practical. It is because, apart from a few, almost all the front-line officers know Chinese. Will the Administration consider this proposal and have it implemented as soon as possible?
SECRETARY FOR THE CIVIL SERVICE (in Cantonese): Mr President, this is a good proposal which I believe the Working Group will be ready to consider.
MR CHEUNG MAN-KWONG (in Cantonese): Mr President, the eight courses of action mentioned by the Honourable Michael SZE a moment ago help promote the use of Chinese in government departments. But what I am concerned about is the related legal matters and I also want to follow up on the question raised by the Honourable MAN Sai-cheong. In November last year, the Chief Secretary, when answering my question, pointed out that the departments in which English was the only medium of communication were not merely restricted to the Judiciary and the Companies Registry, but also included the Insurance Authority and the Hong Kong Monetary Authority. Since these departments are subject to some legal restrictions, for instance the aforementioned provision under the Companies Ordinance or the Banking Ordinance that the documents submitted by the public should be written in English in order to be acceptable, can the Administration inform this Council:
(a) whether these ordinances have infringed on the Official Languages Ordinance of 1974; whether the Administration will amend all the ordinances concerned so that the above departments will recognize without delay that Chinese and the English documents share the same status;
(b) at the same time, whether the Administration will take any transitional measures to assist those members of the public who need to contact the above departments but can only submit documents written in Chinese, so that they can communicate with these departments in Chinese?
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995 3755
SECRETARY FOR THE CIVIL SERVICE (in Cantonese): When I responded to the Honourable MAN Sai-cheong’s question a moment ago, I mentioned that improvement will be made to the two departments which still do not accept documents written in Chinese for the time being through legal amendments. As far as the Hong Kong Monetary Authority is concerned, since it is not a government department and its employees are not civil servants, there is not much we can do in this aspect. In regard to the Insurance Authority, I will follow up with it about the progress of the situation in due course. I believe that they will also make the necessary improvement to be in line with the trend and to comply with the government policy in this regard.
WRITTEN ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS
Child Abuse and Preventive Measures
7. DR DAVID LI asked: According to the figures released by the Hong Kong Council of Social Service in the first three quarters of 1994, sexual abuse cases involving children rose by almost a third as compared to the corresponding period in the preceding year. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council whether:
(a) additional provision will be allocated for preventive education; and
(b) consideration will be given to introducing a mandatory set of standards for child-minding services and providing training programmes in order to monitor the quality of such services?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr President, according to statistics maintained by the Social Welfare Department (SWD), the number of reported sexual abuse cases involving children increased from 54 in 1993 to 73 in 1994.
In March 1995, we launched the first phase of a major publicity campaign aimed at educating the general public about the early detection and reporting of all child abuse cases including those involving sexual abuse. The campaign includes television announcements, a poster, a series of leaflets on each category of abuse and a radio programme. The second phase of the campaign will be launched towards the end of this year. To promote community education and to tackle the problem at district level, the SWD will set up multi disciplinary district committees on child abuse in five districts within this financial year. This approach is building on the successful pilot scheme conducted in Tuen Mun where a district forum was established in September 1993.
To improve and monitor the quality of child-minding services, we are now considering legislative amendments to prohibit unsuitable persons from
3756 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995
acting as child-minders, and to empower the Director of Social Welfare to inspect and suspend the operation of child-minding services provided by mutual help groups if it is considered that the operation may expose the children involved to any danger. Another purpose of these amendments will be to encourage the formation of mutual help groups by permitting the maximum size of such groups to increase from five to 14 children under six years of age. We intend to introduce the proposed legislative amendments into the Legislative Council in the next Legislative Session.
But we must be wary of over-regulation in this field. In spite of the ambitious expansion programme now in hand to provide additional places in day nurseries and day creches, not all parents in need of such services yet have access to them. It is, therefore, vitally important that we continue to encourage informal child care mutual help groups to provide a flexible form of child care arrangement. The risk to a child left unattended at home is still much greater than the risk the child might face of mistreatment at the hands of a child-minder. The long-term goals are, of course, to provide an adequate number of child care places to meet the full demand and progressively to upgrade the skills and monitoring of those providing the child-minding services. In the interim, we cannot move too fast and risk, as a result, making it too difficult for an adequate number of child-minding places to be provided to meet the increasing demand for them. Above all, we shall continue to educate parents about the importance of taking great care in selecting the appropriate type of child care arrangement conducive to the healthy development of their children.
Growth of Directorate Posts in Public Hospitals
8. MR MICHAEL HO asked (in Chinese): Regarding the increase in the number of directorate posts in various hospitals under the management of the Hospital Authority (HA), will the Government inform this Council of:
(a) the breakdown by year of the numbers of posts at D2, D3 and D4 of the Directorate Pay Scale respectively in each of the HA hospitals from 1 December 1991 to 1 April 1995; and
(b) the annual rate of increase of such posts during the same period?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WEFLARE (in Chinese): Mr President, consultant doctors working in public hospitals are remunerated based on D2 to D4 of the Government Directorate Pay Scale. Creation of new consultant posts must be justified by functional needs arising from new/improved services or facilities. A summary of cumulative increase in the last three years is provided as follows:
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995 3757
Year 1991-92 1992-93 1993-94 1994-95 (Number of posts)
Existing Service 241 241 241 241
New/Improved Services - 13 21 28 (Cumulative total) (13) (34) (62)
New Hospitals/Facilities - 5 32 31 (Cumulative total) (5) (37) (68) ---- ---- ---- ----
Total 241 259 312 371 = = = = = = = = = = = =
China Light and Power’s Development Fund
9. MISS CHRISTINE LOH asked: It is learnt that the China Light and Power Company Limited (CLP) could not meet its guaranteed rate of return through electricity sales last year and has therefore withdrawn over $1.2 billion from the customer-owned Development Fund as permitted by the Scheme of Control. In this connection, will the Administration inform this Council of:
(a) the estimated amount of funds that CLP will withdraw annually from the Development Fund over the next five years;
(b) CLP’s annual net assets forecast over the next five years;
(c) the projected annual permitted return over the next five years; and
(d) the projected annual amount of kWh to be sold locally over the next five years?
SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES: Mr President, the Development Fund of CLP was drawn down by $903 million during the financial year ended 30 September 1994. Part of the draw-down was returned to consumers through a special tariff rebate of $0.3 per unit from 1 March to 30 September 1994. The remainder was transferred to the profit and loss account in accordance with the terms of the Scheme of Control Agreement (SCA).
The provisions governing the Development Fund in the Government’s SCAs with the power companies state if the actual return earned by the companies, after the required deductions, is above or below the level of return to which they are entitled under the terms of their SCA, any excess shall be credited to the Development Fund and any shortfall deducted from it. The primary purpose of the Development Fund is to assist in the acquisition of fixed
3758 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995
assets. The level of the Fund during the period covered by a Financing Review is subject to approval by the Executive Council.
The Development Fund is a liability of the relevant company and does not accrue to the benefit of shareholders. This is illustrated by the fact that the power companies are required to pay interest at a rate of 8% per annum on the average balance of the Fund. The interest income accrues to consumers through a Rate Reduction Rebate and is used to offset tariff increases.
Under the terms of the SCAs, certain information is provided by the companies to the Government in confidence, because it is commercially sensitive. For this reason, it is not possible to disclose a forecast of CLP’s annual net fixed assets over the next five years, nor the projected annual permitted return.
Over the next five years, CLP expects local sales to grow by approximately 5% per annum. The company’s capital expenditure on fixed assets, tariff levels and management of the Development Fund will be in accordance with the approved Financing Plan for the period 1992 to 1999.
Non-Commonwealth Enrolled Nurses
10. MR FRED LI asked (in Chinese): Care and Attention Homes may employ non Commonwealth enrolled nurses trained and qualified at the Hong Kong College of Nursing to work as health workers as an interim measure to alleviate the manpower shortage problem. However, unlike Commonwealth enrolled nurses who come under the supervision of the Nursing Board of Hong Kong which is empowered to deal with any professional misconduct, such health workers are not subject to supervision by any monitoring body. In view of this, will the Government inform this Council whether it will consider setting up a similar monitoring body for non-Commonwealth enrolled nurses so as to ensure that the quality of services provided by these health workers can be maintained at an acceptable level; if so, what the detailed plan is; if not, why not?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr President, the qualifications needed to be able to be registered as health workers employed by care and attention homes are set out in the Residential Care Home (Elderly Persons) Regulation. A person has to complete a course of training approved in writing by the Director of Social Welfare or has to satisfy the Director that, by reason of his or her education, training, professional experience and skill in health work, he or she is a suitable person to be registered as a health worker.
The Director is empowered to cancel the registration of a person if the registration was obtained by fraudulent means or if the person ceases to be found suitable to be registered. In view of the authority vested in the Director to register, refuse to register and cancel registration, the Director is also
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995 3759
responsible for monitoring the quality of service provided by health workers. Medical inspectors appointed under the Residential Care Homes (Elderly Persons) Ordinance have been assigned this monitoring function. They use their professional knowledge to advise the Director whether a residential care home is being operated and managed satisfactorily. Since there are sufficient safeguards in the Residential Care Homes (Elderly Persons) Ordinance and Regulation to ensure the appropriate monitoring of the quality of services provided by health workers, the establishment of an additional monitoring body would serve no useful purpose.
Disclosure of Personal Details of Assistants to Legislative Council Members
11. HENRY TANG asked (in Chinese): Will the Government inform this Council whether the Government, in arriving at its decision to require Legislative Council Members to disclose the names, identity card numbers and wages of their assistants, has taken into consideration Article 14 of the Hong Kong Bill of Rights Ordinance concerning the protection of privacy, family, home, correspondence, honour and reputation?
CHIEF SECRETARY: Mr President, the purpose of the requirement for Legislative Council Members to disclose the names, identity card numbers and salaries of their assistants is to increase the accountability and transparency of the use of allowances provided to the Legislative Council Members out of public funds. It was introduced, on the advice of an independent Commission, after careful consideration of all relevant factors, including any possible effect on the privacy of those concerned. The Administration is confident that the requirement is consistent with Article 14 of the Bill of Rights which provides, among other things, that no one shall be subjected to arbitrary or unlawful interference with his privacy. To the extent that the requiremnt might be considered an interference with the privacy of those concerned, such interference would be neither arbitrary nor unlawful.
Allocation of Funds to Hospitals Managed by the Hospital Authority
12. MR SZETO WAH asked (in Chinese): With regard to the allocation of funds to hospitals managed by the Hospital Authority, will the Government inform this Council:
(a) of the annual amount of funds allocated to each hospital in the past three years;
(b) of the criteria adopted in the allocation of funds; and
3760 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995
(c) whether additional measures will be put in place to assist smaller hospitals, which may not have been allocated sufficient funds to provide high-quality facilities and services, so as to improve their management and operations?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr President, during the past three years, the Hospital Authority has progressively devolved management responsibilities, including budgetary control, to the hospital level. During the process, the various components of the budget have been decentralized to hospitals in phases. This has involved significant budgetary adjustments and redefinition of cost centres. The implementation of hospital clustering and service networking also helped rationalize service delivery and delineate clearly the roles and responsibilities of different institutions within the same geographical region, resulting in re-organization and transfer of activities and services with consequential budgetary adjustments.
This process of adjustment has now been completed and the budgets for individual hospitals in 1995-96 will be a more accurate reflection of their clinical role and scope of activities. The budgets for 1995-96 are being presented to the Hospital Governing Committees and will be available to Members within one month. The breakdown of budgets by hospital in 1993-94 and 1994-95 is at Annex.
Global resource allocation is conducted by the Hospital Authority through its annual planning process, during which quality standards and performance targets are set to facilitate outcome monitoring. The criteria adopted in this process are based on the volume, scope, level and complexity of services involved. Given an improved role delineation between institutions and the revamped mechanism for resource allocation, small hospitals will be able to bid on an objective basis for additional funds based on their service targets and aspired achievements.
Annex
Budgets for Public Hospitals
Hospital
1994-95
$ million
(Note 1 and 2)
1993-94 $ million (Note 2)
Duchess of Kent Children’s Hospital 62 53 Fung Yiu King Hospital 46 41 Cheshire Home, Chung Hom Kok 8 7 Grantham Hospital 197 172
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995 3761
Hospital
1994-95
$ million
(Note 1 and 2)
1993-94 $ million (Note 2)
MacLehose Medical Rehabilitation Centre 36 32 Nam Long Hospital 42 36 Pamela Youde Nethersole Eastern Hospital 530 245 Queen Mary Hospital 1,033 899 Ruttonjee Hospital 194 143 St John Hospital 26 22 Tang Shiu Kin Hospital 118 106 Tsan Yuk Hospital 98 81 Tung Wah Eastern Hospital 130 107 Hong Kong Buddhist Hospital 88 76 Hong Kong Eye Hospital 62 56 Red Cross Blood Transfusion Service 100 92 Kowloon Hospital 267 231 Kwong Wah Hospital 631 543 Margaret Trench Medical Rehabilitation Centre 20 16 Our Lady of Maryknoll Hospital 121 103 Queen Elizabeth Hospital 1,330 1,198 Rehabaid Centre 5 3 United Christian Hospital 437 339 Wong Tai Sin Hospital 119 101 Castle Peak Hospital 267 214
3762 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995 1994-95
1993-94
Hospital
$ million
(Note 1 and 2)
$ million (Note 2)
Cheshire Home, Sha Tin 42 35 Fanling Hospital 45 36 Haven of Hope Hospital 87 67 Tung Wah Hospital 196 171 Kwai Chung Hospital 306 239 Lai Chi Kok Hospital 42 34 Pok Oi Hospital 135 106 Prince of Wales Hospital 1,014 902 Princess Margaret Hospital 794 752 Shatin Hospital 158 104 Siu Lam Hospital 45 27 Tuen Mun Hospital 674 529 Yan Chai Hospital 306 108
Note 1: There were changes and redefinition of cost centres and further decentralization of budgets to hospitals in 1994-95
Note 2: Staff oncosts are excluded
Secondary School Classes in North District and Tai Po
13. MR TIK CHI-YUEN asked (in Chinese): Will the Government inform this Council of the class structure and anticipated class size of the secondary schools in the North District and Tai Po District of the New Territories for the 1995-96 academic year?
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER: Mr President, the proposed 1995- 96 class structures of all the secondary schools in Tai Po and North Districts are set out at Annex.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995 3763 Regarding class size, it will be:
(i) 40 pupils per class for S1 to S5; and
(ii) 30 pupils per class for S6 to S7.
However, in view of the temporary shortfall of S1 school places in the two districts in 1995, some schools have agreed to admit one to two more pupils per S1 class through the Secondary School Places Allocation system.
Annex
Tai Po District
1995-96 proposed class structure
Name of School S.1 S.2 S.3 S.4 S.5 S.6 S.7 Total
Assembly of God Hebron Secondary School
Buddhist Chi Hong Chi Lam Memorial College
8 8 8 4 6 0 0 34 6 6 8 4 4 2 2 32
Buddhist Hui Yuan College 8 9 9 4 5 0 0 35
Buddhist Tai Kwong Middle School
6 6 6 3 3 2 2 28
Carmel Pak U Secondary School 5 5 5 5 5 3 3 31
Confucian Ho Kwok Pui Chun College
Hong Kong Red Swastika Tai Po Secondary School
HKTA The Yuen Yuen Institute No. 2 Secondary School
Hong Kong Teachers’
Association Secondary School
6 6 8 4 4 2 2 32 6 6 8 4 4 2 2 32 6 6 6 4 4 2 2 30 5 5 0 0 0 0 0 10
Immanuel Lutheran College 6 6 6 5 4 2 2 31 Kau Yan College 6 8 8 4 4 2 0 32
Law Ting Pong Secondary School
SKH Bishop Mok Sau Tseng Secondary School
8 8 8 4 4 0 0 32 5 5 5 5 5 3 3 31
Valtorta College 5 5 5 5 5 2 2 29
3764 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995
1995-96 proposed class structure
Name of School S.1 S.2 S.3 S.4 S.5 S.6 S.7 Total
Wong Shiu Chi Secondary School
CCC Madam Fung Leung Kit Memorial Prevocational School
NTHYK Tai Po District Secondary School
Tai Po Government
Secondary School
Tai Po Sam Yuk Secondary School
North District
Buddhist Ma Kam Chan Memorial English Secondary School
De La Salle Secondary School
Fung Kai No. 1 Secondary School
HKTA Tang Hin Memorial Secondary School
Kei San Secondary Technical School
SKH Chan Young Secondary School
St. Francis of Assisi’s
College
Tin Ka Ping Secondary School
TWGHs Kap Yan Directors’ College
5 5 5 5 5 2 2 29 6 6 6 4 4 1 1 28
6 5 6 4 4 2 2 29 6 5 6 4 4 2 2 29 6 6 6 4 4 2 2 30
8 8 9 4 4 0 0 33
3 3 3 3 3 1 1 17 7 6 6 4 4 2 2 31 6 6 6 4 4 2 2 30 5 4 4 3 2 1 1 20 6 6 8 4 4 2 2 32 8 8 9 4 4 0 0 33 8 10 0 0 0 0 0 18 6 6 6 4 4 2 2 30
TWGHs Li Ka Shing College 6 6 6 4 4 2 2 30
Caritas Chan Chun Ha Prevocational School - Fanling
6 6 6 4 4 1 1 28
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995 3765
1995-96 proposed class structure
Name of School S.1 S.2 S.3 S.4 S.5 S.6 S.7 Total
A new school operated by Po Leung Kuk
Fanling Government Secondary School
Sha Tau Kok Government Secondary School
Sheung Shui Government Secondary School
Fung Kai No. 2 Secondary School
Fanling Lutheran
Secondary School
50000005 7 7 9 4 4 0 0 31 6 6 6 3 3 1 1 26 7 6 7 4 4 2 2 32 4 3 3 3 3 0 0 16 6 6 6 4 4 1 1 28
Tenancy Abuse in Public Housing Estates
14. MRS ELSIE TU asked: In regard to unoccupied or illegally occupied flats in public housing estates, will the Government inform this Council:
(a) of the total number of such flats in public housing estates;
(b) what steps the Housing Department is taking to recover such flats for allocation to applicants on the Waiting List, those recommended for compassionate housing, the elderly, and those living in overcrowded conditions; and
(c) how many of such flats have been recovered in the past 12 months?
SECRETARY FOR HOUSING: Mr President, the Housing Authority’s tenancy agreements require tenants and their families to reside regularly in the flats allocated to them, and prohibit sub-letting or improper use of these flats. It is difficult to quantify how many tenants breach the agreements and the number of flats involved.
Since 1993, the Housing Department has set up Special Investigation Teams to deal with suspected cases of non-occupation, irregular occupation, sub-letting or improper use of rental flats. A territory-wide publicity campaign has also been launched to educate tenants on the proper use of flats and to emphasize the Housing Authority’s determination to stamp out tenancy abuse. Tenants are encouraged to report suspected cases of tenancy abuse to the housing estate office concerned or by using the Department’s complaints hotline.
3766 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995
Whenever an irregularity is detected by estate staff or in the course of investigations, an oral warning is given to the tenant, followed by a warning letter from the Housing Manager. Depending on the seriousness of the breach, the tenant may be given one to three weeks to rectify the irregularity or may be asked to surrender the flat voluntarily. In serious cases, the tenancy can be terminated by serving a Notice-to-Quit. In such cases, tenants have the right to appeal to an Appeal Panel.
During the 12 months ending 30 April 1995, 420 improperly used flats were recovered for allocation to others in need. A further 85 flats are being recovered and 105 cases are being investigated.
Private Residential Care Homes
15. MR CHEUNG MAN-KWONG asked (in Chinese): As private residential care homes have now started applying for licences or certificates of exemption following the implementation of the Residential Care Homes (Elderly Persons) Regulation in April this year, will the Government inform this Council of :
(a) the existing number of private residential care homes situated in commercial buildings which are likely to fail to meet the standard required for the issue of licences or certificates of exemption as stipulated in the Regulation due to violation of the Buildings Ordinance or codes of practice for fire prevention; and how it will handle such private residential care homes;
(b) the breakdown of the respective numbers of private residential care homes situated in locations which are not permitted under Part VI of the Regulation, including any part of an industrial building or any premises located immediately above or below any godown, cinema, theatre or premises wherein any trade is carried on and which, in the opinion of the Director of Social Welfare, may pose a risk to the life or safety of the residents; and how it will handle residential care homes situated in such locations; and
(c) the estimated number of beds which will be affected as a result of the private residential care homes failing to meet the specified requirements on account of the problems referred to in (a) and (b) above; and whether it can ensure that there will be sufficient beds to house the elderly persons who have to move out because of such problems?
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995 3767 SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr President,
(a) The Social Welfare Department has so far identified over 130 private residential care homes operating in non-domestic buildings. These homes will need to be inspected by both the Social Welfare and Buildings Departments which will need to satisfy themselves on a case-by-case basis whether there exist any problems which constitute a real threat to the health and safety of the residents. If there are none, then the Social Welfare Department will issue an exemption under the Residential Care Homes (Elderly Persons) Regulation and the Buildings Department will exercise its discretion, as provided for under the Buildings Ordinance, not to prohibit the continued use of the premises for a residential home, notwithstanding the fact of their location in a non-domestic building;
(b) No private residential care home has been found to be situated in an industrial building, or near to any godown, cinema or theatre. However, some homes are in premises which pose risks to the safety of the residents due to one or more of the following reasons:
- emergency vehicle access not available;
- location immediately above or below or adjacent to a trade with a high fire potential;
- occupying premises which are situated in or under any structure built without the approval of the Buildings Authority or which have large portions of unauthorized buildings works;
- occupying premises with inadequate means of escape.
As it is unlikely that licences or certificates of exemption will be issued to these homes, operators have been advised to find alternative premises for reprovisioning if they wish to go on providing residential care to their elderly residents. Most operators are now actively finding acceptable alternative premises.
(c) The Social Welfare Department has drawn up contingency plans to deal with any elderly residents of private homes who might need to be moved to alternative accommodation. Places will be found for them either in government-subvented homes or in other private elderly homes, some of which may be receiving financial assistance from the Social Welfare Department under the Bought Place Scheme in Private Homes for the Elderly.
3768 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995 Former Firing Range Areas
16. MR HOWARD YOUNG asked: Will the Government inform this Council:
(a) what measures the Government has undertaken to survey and render safe former firing range areas, such as those located on some islands in Sai Kung area, to ensure public safety is not put at risk by left-over unexploded shells; and
(b) whether the Government will consider requesting the British military authority in the territory to undertake such task within the next two and a half years as a public service so as to reduce public expenditure?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, I believe the Honourable Member is referring to the former Port Shelter firing range which was established in 1936 and covered much of the area between High Island and the Clearwater Bay Peninsula. Most of the range ceased to be used for firing in the mid-1970s.
(a) In 1980, the Queen’s Gurkha Engineers conducted a search of paths and some private lots on Kau Sai Chau, near the edge of the range, where there were still some farming activities. They found nothing of significance. In 1983, they completed a search 10 metres either side of the footpath across the Lung Ha Wan peninsula in the Clearwater Bay Country Park. The Crown land that comprises most of the former range was not searched; and
(b) British Forces in Hong Kong no longer have the necessary manpower, equipment or expertise to conduct a clearance of the entire former range area. Neither do the police, whose Marine Division also used the ranges.
Police and military experts have advised that a search and clearance exercise — particularly in a large expanse of rocky, scrub-covered terrain like the former range — could not guarantee that the areas in question are totally free of unexploded ordnance. That is why we maintain some 57 warning notices around the periphery of the former range. The presence of unexploded ordnance is by no means unique to former firing ranges. Such ordnance — mostly unexploded bombs from the Second World War — is also found on construction and other sites around the territory. The Explosives Ordnance Disposal Bureau of the Royal Hong Kong Police Force seeks to render them safe, with no injuries to any member of the public. the Bureau maintains a duty team on 24-hour stand-by to render safe all finds of this kind.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995 3769 Lecturing Hours for University Lecturers
17. MISS EMILY LAU asked (in Chinese): It is learnt that a lecturer at the University of Hong Kong (HKU) was assigned to lecture for only two hours throughout the academic year 1994-95, which is a much lower figure than the previous annual average of ten-plus lecturing hours assigned to the lecturer concerned. The HKU Management has, however, given no explanation to the lecturer regarding this arrangement. In connection with this, will the Government inform this Council:
(a) whether any lecturers teaching at the universities funded by the University Grants Committee are known to have been assigned less than five lecturing hours in 1994-95; if so, how many such lecturers there are in each university and what the reasons are;
(b) if the answer to (a) is in the affirmative, whether such arrangements have resulted in a waste of human resources at the universities; and
(c) who is responsible for determining the annual number of lecturing hours for university lecturers and how is it determined; and what channel of appeal is available if individual lecturers wish to raise objections?
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER: Mr President, academic staff of the University Grants Committee-funded institutions are expected, under their terms of employment, to undertake a variety of duties which may include lecturing, taking tutorial/seminar sessions, taking laboratory sessions, supervising research students, supervising field work, supervising term/year research projects, research, administration, service on institutional governing and academic bodies, and so on. The mix of such duties may vary from one staff member to another and is normally determined in the first instance by the department head in consultation with the staff member concerned.
With reference to part (a) of the question, the Administration understands, on the basis of information provided by the institutions concerned, that four academic staff were assigned less than five hours’ teaching duties during the academic year 1994-95. The four academic staff involved were:
(a) a head of department at the Hong Kong University of Science and Technology and two Faculty Deans at the Lingnan College who were relieved of teaching duties during the year to enable them to devote more time to the administration of the department/faculties concerned; and
(b) one lecturer at the Hong Kong Baptist University who was relieved of teaching duties because she was commissioned by the President
3770 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995 and Vice Chancellor to take up a major research project for the University.
As regards part (b) of the question, none of the arrangements described above has resulted in a waste of human resources.
With regard to part (c) of the question, the determination of the number of teaching hours for academic staff is a matter within institutional autonomy. The department heads of the institutions, in consultation with their academic staff, are responsible for assigning the teaching load of the department among the academic staff. There are established administrative appeal channels within the institutions for staff who wish to raise objections regarding their duties including their teaching assignments. If an individual staff member is not content with his/her teaching assignments as determined by the department heads concerned, he/she can appeal to the relevant Dean, the Pro-Vice Chancellor concerned, or ultimately the Vice Chancellor.
School Children Bullied by Peers
18. MR HUANG CHEN-YA asked (in Chinese): According to the findings of a survey conducted in the United Kingdom, 27% of junior school students and 10% senior school students have been bullied by their peers at schools. School children who are subjected to such bullying may develop psychological and learning problems, but they seldom report such incidents to their teachers or parents. Will the Government inform this Council:
(a) of the extent of bullying at schools in the territory;
(b) whether any research on the problem has been conducted; and (c) what mechanism is in place to monitor the problem?
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER: Mr President,
(a) On the basis of data regularly provided by our schools to the Education Department, the number of bullying cases in the 1993-94 school year was 260 in primary schools and 326 in secondary schools. This represented 0.05% of primary school pupils and 0.07% of secondary school pupils.
(b) The Education Department conducts an annual survey on the discipline and behaviour problems in our schools. In the survey, all schools are required to report to the Department details of disciplinary cases including bullying cases. The Board of Education’s Advisory Committee on School Guidance and Support
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995 3771
Services monitors the survey results and advises the Department on the broad strategic measures to be taken.
(c) Separately, the Education Department analyzes such cases and follows up on special cases, for example, by sending professional officers to the schools concerned to provide specific assistance. In general, schools are encouraged to adopt the whole school approach on matters of guidance and discipline, whereby all teachers in a school actively participate in assisting pupils to resolve their problems.
Expenses of the Hospital Authority on Operations
19. MR FREDERICK FUNG asked (in Chinese): Regarding the Hospital Authority (HA)’s expenses in various kinds of operations, will the Government inform this Council:
(a) of the number of operations performed in HA hospitals in the last fiscal year, together with the average amount of expenses incurred each time for using the relevant medical equipment, in respect of the following:
(1) total joint replacement for hip, knee, shoulder and elbow;
(2) replacement of spine disc;
(3) percutaneous transluminal coronary stenting;
(4) percutaneous transluminal coronary angioplasty;
(5) percutaneous balloon mitral valvotomy (Inoue balloon catheter); (6) percutaneous balloon pulmonary valvotomy;
(7) balloon angioplasty; and
(8) items of prosthesis for cardiac operation:
(i) Pacemaker;
(ii) Carbomedic Valve (aortic and mitral);
(iii) Medtronic Hall Aortic Valve Conduit;
(iv) Medtronic Hall Valve (aortic and mitral);
3772 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995 (v) Carpentier Ewards Biological Valve (aortic and mitral);
(vi) Sorin valve (aortic and mitral); and
(vii) filter for blood transfusion of thalassanemia major?
(b) of the expenses incurred in each of the categories mentioned in (a) above, how much is borne by the Hospital Authority, the Samaritan Fund or other funds, and the patients themselves respectively?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr President, since operational statistics are kept by the Hospital Authority according to outcome of clinical diagnosis based on the International Classification of Diseases, a breakdown on the number of operations using specific implants and consumable is not readily available.
While the unit cost of these implants and consumable will tend to vary between different suppliers and specifications, a rough indication of cost is provided at Annex.
Since patients with the ability to pay are normally advised to purchase these implants and consumable direct from the suppliers, information is not available on the total expenditure involved. Nevertheless, about $4 million was paid out from the Samaritan Fund in 1994-95 to provide partial or full waivers for those in need.
Annex
Items of implants or consumable Unit cost ($)
Total joint replacement 5,000 - 25,0000 Replacement of spine disc 10,000 - 20,000 Percutaneous transluminal coronary stenting 18,000 - 22,000 Percutaneous transluminal coronary angioplasty 12,000 - 15,000
Percutaneous balloon mitral valvotomy 14,000 - 15,000 (Inoue balloon catheter)
Percutaneous balloon pulmonary valvotomy 7,000 - 8,000 Balloon angioplasty 5,000 - 6,000
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995 3773
Items of prosthesis for cardiac operation Unit cost ($)
(i) Pacemaker 8,000 - 36,000 (ii) Carbomedic Valve (aortic and mitral) 9,000 - 10,000 (iii) Medtronic Hall Aortic Valve Conduit 22,000 - 23,000 (iv) Medtronic Hall Valve (aortic and mitral) 9,000 - 10,000
(v) Carpentier Edwards Biological Valve (aortic and mitral)
9,000 - 10,000
(vi) Sorin Valve (aortic and mitral) 9,000 - 10,000
(vii) Filter for blood transfusion of thalassanemia major
Election Petition
300 - 600
20. MR ERIC LI asked (in Chinese): Regarding the nine new functional constituencies, the number of voters who are eligible to register amounts to about 2.7 million. As the registration procedures are complicated and the Government can only verify the declared information on a selective basis, there is likely to be inaccurate information in the electoral roll. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council whether it will adopt measures to prevent voters and candidates initiating election petition proceedings under the Legislative Council (Electoral Provisions) Ordinance (Cap. 381) to question the validity of the election results; if so, what the measures are; if not, why not?
SECRETARY FOR CONSTITUTIONAL AFFAIRS: Mr President, the Legislative Council (Electoral Provisions) Ordinance (Cap. 381) specifies the grounds on which an election may be questioned by means of an election petition. In the main, these are:
(i) that the person declared to have been elected falls foul of the statutory disqualification provision for election or holding office; or
(ii) that a corrupt or illegal practice within the meaning of the Corrupt and Illegal Practices Ordinance (Cap. 288) has been committed, either by the person declared to have been elected or generally; or
(iii) that there was material irregularity in relation to the election.
3774 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995
An election petition may be presented either by 10 or more electors entitled to vote at the election which is the subject of the petition, or by a person claiming to have been a candidate in that election. It is within the legal right of the individuals concerned to present an election petition if they so wish, and there is no question of the Administration preventing them from so doing. Whether an election petition will succeed is, of course, for the court to decide.
As regards the registration of electors in the nine new functional constituencies, an eligible working person will be registered in the appropriate constituency in accordance with the main line of business of his employer and, if the working person is self-employed, the main line of his business. To facilitate the registration of working persons as electors in the new functional constituencies, the registration arrangements are made as simple and user-friendly as possible.
We attach great importance to the accuracy of the electoral roll for the new functional constituencies. Towards this end, the following proactive measures are being made:
(a) intensive publicity through advertisements on both the electronic and printed media, and distribution of information pamphlets, to improve public knowledge of the delineation of the new functional constituencies and the registration procedures;
(b) a 24-hour enquiry hotline (20 telephone lines) to answer enquiries concerning the registration procedures;
(c) where employers have provided information (name and identity card number) of their employees to the Registration and Electoral Office (REO), such information is used to facilitate the registration of the employees in the new functional constituencies. Where necessary, the REO will make enquiries with the employers to verify the information contained in their returns;
(d) where application forms are received, the REO will make enquiries with the applicants if the information contained in their application forms is incomplete. Where necessary, the REO will also check the declared information in the applications against the returns of the employers; and
(e) in addition to the above, the REO also conduct random checks on application forms received to ascertain the accuracy of the declared information on the forms.
Where any inaccuracy is detected and the applicant does not furnish proof to the satisfaction of the REO, the application will not be included in the electoral roll.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995 3775
To further safeguard the transparency and accuracy of the voter register, there is a statutory inspection and appeal system. A Provisional Register which contains the relevant particulars of all the new functional constituency electors, grouped under the names of the companies in which they are employed, will be published before 22 June 1995 for public inspection. About two weeks will be allowed for the public to make any appeal regarding any inaccuracy of, or omissions from, the Provisional Register, and for the Revising Officer (a judicial officer) to make a ruling on these appeals. The Final Register will then be compiled and published having regard to the Revising Officer’s rulings.
BILLS
First Reading of Bills
PREVENTION OF BRIBERY (MISCELLANEOUS PROVISIONS) BILL 1995
PENSIONS (SPECIAL PROVISIONS) (THE HONG KONG INSTITUTE OF EDUCATION) BILL
Bills read the First time and ordered to be set down for Second Reading pursuant to Standing Order 41(3).
Second Reading of Bills
PREVENTION OF BRIBERY (MISCELLANEOUS PROVISIONS) BILL 1995
THE ATTORNEY GENERAL moved the Second Reading of: “A Bill to make further and better provision for the prevention of bribery.”
He said: Mr President, I move that the Prevention of Bribery (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 1995 be read a Second time.
The purpose of this Bill is to make the legislative amendments needed in order to implement the recommendations in the report of the Independent Commission Against Corruption (ICAC) Review Committee. That Committee was established at the beginning of last year to review the powers of the ICAC and the accountability of the ICAC in the exercise of its powers. It was chaired by Mr Helmet SOHMEN and included Members of this Council, community leaders and members of the Administration.
The report of the Review Committee was published in December 1994 and contained 76 conclusions and recommendations. Those recommendations may broadly be described as evolutionary rather than revolutionary. Members
3776 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995
of this Council were given copies of the report, and the Security Panel of the Council discussed the report in January this year. The Panel expressed strong support for several of the recommendations.
The Administration has announced that, in principle, it accepts the recommendations in the report, although some minor procedural refinements may be required in some cases. Certain of the recommendations can only be implemented by legislation, and that is the purpose of the Bill I am now introducing. In promoting this Bill, the Government’s objectives are to strike a balance between two potentially conflicting views held in the community: that the ICAC needs to have sufficient powers to be effective in the continuing battle against corruption; and that it should be more accountable and transparent in the use of those powers.
Mr President, the Bill proposes amendments to the Prevention of Bribery Ordinance, the Independent Commission Against Corruption Ordinance and the Magistrates Ordinance. The amendments can be grouped into three categories.
Control by the courts
The first category relates to certain of the powers at present vested in the Commissioner of the ICAC, which are to be transferred to the courts. In particular, court approval will be needed in order for the ICAC to require a person to supply information under section 14 of the Prevention of Bribery Ordinance, to search premises (save in exceptional cases), or to prevent a suspect from disposing of property.
Bill of Rights Ordinance
The second category of amendments are to ensure that the legislation relating to the ICAC is consistent with the Bill of Rights Ordinance. The amendments will provide:
(a) that the Commissioner’s special powers of investigation arise only if he has reasonable cause to believe that an offence under the Prevention of Bribery Ordinance may have been committed;
(b) that the Commissioner’s power to apply to a magistrate for a notice requiring a person to surrender his travel documents arises only if he reasonably suspects that person to have committed such an offence;
(c) that a person who has surrendered a travel document has the option of applying to the Commissioner of the ICAC, or a magistrate, or both, for its return; and
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995 3777
(d) that a statutory declaration or written statement made in compliance with a requirement under the Prevention of Bribery Ordinance will be admissible in evidence against the person who made it only if he gives evidence that is inconsistent with it.
Provisions in the Prevention of Bribery Ordinance that create a presumption of corruption and allow a court to comment on the failure of an accused to give evidence are to be repealed.
The opportunity presented by the Bill is taken to amend section 10(2) of the Prevention of Bribery Ordinance in order to ensure that it is safe from challenge under the Bill of Rights Ordinance. Section 10(1) makes it an offence for a Crown servant to maintain a standard of living above that which is commensurate with his official emoluments, or to be in control of pecuniary resources or property disproportionate to those emoluments. The importance of section 10 was recognized in a recent case decided by the Court of Appeal. I quote from the decision:
“And in case after case over the years, section 10 has proved its effectiveness in the fight against corruption. Although less visible, its deterrent effect must have been even greater. Chapter 201 of the Laws of Hong Kong is rightly named the Prevention of Bribery Ordinance. Section 10’s worth is well-established.”
At present section 10(2) creates a presumption, in a prosecution under section 10(1)(b), that certain assets were in the control of the accused, until the contrary is proved. It is now proposed to amend section 10(2) by replacing the legal presumption with an evidentiary presumption. The effect of this will be that the accused is not required to prove that the assets were not in his control, there merely has to be some evidence to that effect in order to displace the presumption.
Miscellaneous amendments
The third category relates to miscellaneous amendments. These include amendments:
(a) to give the ICAC the same access to tax records as exists under the Drug Trafficking (Recovery of Proceeds) Ordinance and the Organized and Serious Crimes Ordinance;
(b) to modify the power of the Commissioner of the ICAC to dismiss an officer under section 8(2) of the ICAC Ordinance;
(c) to make it possible for the ICAC to keep a suspect on bail no longer than is necessary; and
3778 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995
(d) to enable the Commissioner of the ICAC, in discharging specified corruption prevention duties, to gain access to all records, books and documents held by public bodies.
Comment
Mr President, this Bill is an essential step in reaffirming the ICAC’s mandate in the light of present day circumstances and the changing expectations of the people of Hong Kong 20 years after the establishment of the ICAC.
Thank you, Mr President.
Bill referred to the House Committee pursuant to Standing Order 42(3A).
PENSIONS (SPECIAL PROVISIONS) (THE HONG KONG INSTITUTE OF EDUCATION) BILL
THE SECRETARY FOR THE CIVIL SERVICE moved the Second Reading of: “A Bill to provide for the pensions, allowances, gratuities and pension benefits of certain officers transferred from service under the Government to service under The Hong Kong Institute of Education.”
He said: Mr President, I move that the Pensions (Special Provisions) (The Hong Kong Institute of Education) Bill 1995 be read a Second time.
This Bill is technical in nature. It seeks to provide for two pension arrangements for staff of the Education Department transferring to The Hong Kong Institute of Education on 1 September 1995. The arrangements constitute part of the bridging-over package for the civil servants concerned.
The first is the “mixed service pension” arrangement which is designed to enable civil servants to preserve their pension rights after transferring to the Institute. Their total length of service for the purpose of pension calculation will thus be the sum of their service with the Government and the Institute.
The second is the “frozen pension” arrangement which is designed to give civil servants the alternative of joining the Institute’s superannuation scheme after transfer. The pension earned during their government service will thus be frozen and payable when they retire from the Institute.
Since September 1994, when it took over the four Colleges of Education and the Institute of Language in Education, The Hong Kong Institute of Education has been staffed by civil servants on one-year secondment from the Education Department. Lecturing staff have now indicated whether they wish to join the Institute or return to the Education Department. More than half will join it. The Institute has been and is recruiting staff to fill these expected
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995 3779
vacancies when the secondment period ends, as planned, on 31 August 1995. The provisions in the Bill if enacted will come into operation before 1 September 1995 so that the staff who choose to join the Institute can opt, before their formal transfer on that date, for one of the two pension arrangements provided to preserve their pension rights.
Thank You, Mr President.
Bill referred to the House Committee pursuant to Standing Order 42(3A).
MATRIMONIAL CAUSES (AMENDMENT) BILL 1994
Resumption of debate on Second Reading which was moved on 12 October 1994 Question on Second Reading proposed.
REV FUNG CHI-WOOD (in Cantonese): Mr President, the Government published the Matrimonial Causes (Amendment) Bill 1994 in September last year and proposed a number of amendments to some arrangements in the divorce legislation. These include shortening the separation period where with the consent of both parties, the period may be shortened from the current two years to one year; in non-consent cases, the separation period is to be shortened from the current five years to two years.
The amendment Bill has also retained adultery and unreasonable behaviour as facts for one party of the broken marriage to petition right away for a divorce. Besides, the Bill also established a new fact for divorce so that both parties will be able to jointly give notice of intention to divorce to the Court, and a divorce petition may be filed jointly at the expiry of one year.
As a matter of fact, the Democratic Party supports the proposed amendments. It is also of the view that these arrangements will be able to minimize the sufferings caused to both parties by the broken marriage. However, the Democratic Party has reservations about the Bill’s recommendation to shorten the currently prescribed period of three years to one year for those who have married not long ago to divorce.
Marriage is a contract between two parties. It is entirely made on the basis of mutual love, trust, respect and understanding. It takes a definite period of time to establish and maintain these valuable elements. This conception is in fact the purpose and spirit of setting down the specified period for those recently married to divorce. The Democratic Party does not agree to the specified period of three years as it is a bit too long; however, it neither agrees with the one-year period as proposed in the Bill because a one-year period does seem too short for those who have married not long ago and who cannot establish and consolidate their feelings and relationship with each other without
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a relatively longer period. The Democratic Party therefore proposes that the restriction on divorce be increased from one year after marriage to two years, since the newlyweds need a certain period of time to adapt to their matrimonial life and to establish and consolidate their relationship after marriage. I shall further explain the reasons for this amendment.
In recent years, the number of divorce cases in Hong Kong seems to have increased sharply. In 1993, the number of divorce petition stood high at 8 626, and the divorce rate was 1.27%, compared with 0.98% of 1990 and 0.79% of 1985, it shows a sharp rise in the number of divorce cases in the past 10 years. The experience of many family service organizations and social workers has it that marital crisis are attributable to several factors, including poor communication and differences in expectations resulting in conflicts. A study further shows that many of the parties concerned in fact have not decided to resort to a divorce when the marital crisis arises. For this reason, a reasonable and adequate period is able to provide them the opportunity to save this important relationship or to be counselled so that the marital relationship can be mended and improved.
Of course, for people who have married for several years; for those who already have deep understanding of each other to know that their marriage have become irretrievably broken, and for those who have an irreparable schism in their marital relationship, such salvage efforts are useless. However, for those who have married not so long ago, two years is a period long enough for both parties to make efforts to repair their marital relationship when the crisis arises. But if the one-year period as proposed by the Government is approved, it is possible that a couple just married a month ago who think that it is no longer suitable for them to maintain the relationship because of some problems, will notify the court right away and live in separation, and their petition for divorce will be confirmed officially in a year’s time. This means that the whole relationship exists only for a little more than a year. So have we given sufficient time for the couple to make efforts to repair their marital relationship that has just started? How can this inceptive marital relationship have enough time to develop and be strengthened?
In fact, the Government commissioned a market research company in 1992 to conduct an opinion survey. The survey shows that in the 1 000 persons interviewed, only 3% of them support the specified period of one year for newlyweds to divorce, but 11% of them support that it should be two years. This result shows that a great number of people are of the opinion that two years is an appropriate period.
The response made by the Government on the amendment moved by the Democratic Party pointed out that if the Democratic Party set the period for newlyweds to divorce at two years but accepted other recommendations at the same time, then a couple who had married for only nine months would require a total of 21 months from the time they notify the Court to the official confirmation of their divorce after a year; however, because of the two-year
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995 3781
requirement, the couple who had been granted a divorce had to wait for another three months before they could be divorced. So the Government is saying that the Democratic Partys’ amendment in respect of the divorce requirement for newlyweds is inconsistent with the one-year separation period applicable to consenting couples.
However, I must emphasize that allowing couples who have married for less than a year to hastily decide to divorce is exactly what the community does not want to see, and it is exactly what the Democratic Party wants to prevent from happening by moving this amendment.
Let me ask Members to take into consideration the fact that newlyweds need a longer time to adapt to and consolidate the marital life, and that they also need a longer time to redeem such an important relationship once a crisis arises. Therefore, I hope that Members will support the amendment moved by me on behalf of the Democratic Party, which is that the specified period for newlyweds to divorce is to be two years.
Mr President, with these remarks, I hope Members will support this amendment.
MRS PEGGY LAM (in Cantonese): Mr President, the Matrimonial Causes (Amendment) Bill 1994 seeks to implement recommendations of the Law Reform Commission in its Report “Grounds for Divorce and the Time Restriction on Petitions for Divorce within Three Years of Marriage.” In addition, the opportunity has been taken to remedy several instances of differential treatment between the sexes in the principal ordinance. The main changes proposed in the Bill are aimed at reducing the hardship, distress and acrimony of divorce and to bring the law of divorce into line with current day community expectations.
A Bills Committee, of which I am the Chairman, was set up to study the Bill. The Committee held eight meetings, including five with the Administration. It received a total of 10 submissions from one individual and seven interested organizations and met deputations from five of the organizations.
Let me go briefly into the main issues considered by the Bills Committee.
The Bills Committee supports the reduction of the separation period for divorce petition from two years to one year where both parties consent to the petition and from five years to two years where the respondent’s consent cannot be obtained. Research studies in Britain and the United States have shown that the longer a couple stay in a problematic marriage, the more suffering they and their children will experience. Voluntary agencies which have experiences in handling these cases in Hong Kong also confirm that if a marriage is shown to
3782 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995
have irretrievably broken down, an early settlement of the relationship and the consequent arrangement is preferred.
Clause 7 of the Bill abolishes desertion as a ground for petition for divorce. The rationale is that since the separation period for divorce petition without the respondent’s consent is reduced to two years, the ground of desertion will be rendered obsolete. Members consider that there is a distinct difference between separation and desertion. They note that according to case law, the court can consider desertion and behaviour of the parties when it makes order relating to property adjustment and financial provision. If desertion is removed as a ground for petition for divorce, the Court may not make reference to these factors. After careful deliberation, Members agree to retain desertion as a ground for petition for divorce, but with a shorter minimum period of one year, in order to provide better protection to the deserted party.
The Administration responds by reiterating the Law Reform Commission’s recommendation of moving away from “fault-based” divorce and stressing that the proposal to remove the ground of desertion is a step in this direction. However, it will not oppose a Committee Stage Amendment to retain desertion as a ground for petition.
I will therefore move an amendment at the Committee Stage to this effect.
The Bills provides a new ground of divorce by mutual consent. This is effected by the parties jointly giving notice to the court of their intention to divorce and then, after a minimum period of one year, filing a joint application to the court for divorce. During the intervening period, the parties would not be obliged to separate and would be free to attempt a reconciliation. Members support the proposal and consider it a practical and realistic arrangement in the light of the tight housing problem in Hong Kong. They are also pleased that Administration has accepted their suggestion that the new procedure of divorce by joint application should also be available to couples that have not settled their financial and custody arrangements.
Clause 8 of the Bill reduces the time restriction for divorcing early in marriage from three years to one year. Rev the Honourable FUNG Chi-wood mentioned the views of the Democratic Party on this a moment ago. Some Members are concerned about this provision. However, they note that of the organizations which have commented on this provision, only one wishes to maintain the present time restriction of three years. The others support the reduction because they share the view that expedited settlement of the marriage dispute would minimize the suffering of the parties concerned.
After careful consideration, the majority of Members support this provision subject to a number of measures being taken to improve family education for students and to enhance marriage counselling service. Rev FUNG Chi-wood will move an amendment at the Committee Stage to change the time restriction to two years.
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Members share the view that family education, marriage counselling and mediation services should be enhanced. Although they have reservations on the need for mandatory mediation service, they recommend that there should be provisions in the subsidiary legislation for compulsory provision of information on counselling and mediation services.
The Administration, however, does not consider it appropriate or necessary to impose a statutory requirement that such information must be passed to those who initiate divorce. It has informed the Bills Committee that a proposal is being formulated to make information on counselling and mediation services available and accessible to those contemplating divorce so that they would know what services are available and where they can obtain them. As requested by Members, the Secretary for Home Affairs has agreed to include in his speech an appropriate commitment on the distribution of information concerning marriage counselling and mediation services.
At present, marriage counselling services form an integral part of the casework services for families provided by social workers of the Family Services Centres run by the Social Welfare Department and subvented organizations. Members recommend that a specialized marriage counselling unit should be set up to serve as the focal point for marriage counselling services. The Administration, however, does not see the need for such a unit as the existing service settings are working satisfactorily and the planned substantial increase in the number of family caseworkers to a total of 657 in 1995-96 should be able to meet the demand for services.
Members agree that the outstanding matters relating to the provision of family education and counselling services should be referred to the Panel on Welfare Services this Council for follow-up action.
At the request of Members, the Administration has provided for Members’ reference a copy of the drafting instruction that have been issued for the amendments to the Matrimonial Causes Rules which set out the framework for the necessary consequential amendments. The Administration has advised that the amendments will be tabled for Members’ consideration in about mid May and has confirmed that the Ordinance will not commence until the amendments to the rules are approved by this Council.
Mr President, with these remarks, I commend the Matrimonial Causes (Amendment) Bill 1994 to Honourable Members.
MRS MIRIAM LAU: Mr President, I declare my interest as a member of the Law Reform Commission whose advice to the Administration has resulted in the present Bill before this Council.
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The fact that we have a rising divorce rate in Hong Kong gives cause for concern. Divorce is very sad as it epitomizes the breakdown of the family unit which is an important component of our social structure. However, it must be recognized that the institution of marriage cannot be bulwarked by retaining stringent divorce laws which make divorce unnecessarily difficult for the parties concerned. The problem of increasing divorce should be addressed not through our laws, but through improvement in family life education and enhancement of marriage counselling services, in particular, pre-marriage and post marriage counselling and conciliation services.
Our present divorce laws have remained substantially unchanged for over 20 years. In the meantime, social circumstances have changed; attitudes have shifted. The increasing financial independence of women, the availability of legal aid and the accessibility of social services, albeit not to the extent which we would like it to be, have all contributed in one way or another to divorce decisions being now made with less constraints. No longer is it necessary for one to cling on to the empty shell of a broken marriage and endure whatever hardship that comes with it merely because of the fear that he or she may be thrown out into the streets or otherwise be without support after divorce. Our divorce laws should move forward with these changes. The proposals for change as contained in the Bill are very timely. They reflect the modern sentiments towards divorce and are well suited to the circumstances of Hong Kong.
I must point out that the ground for divorce remains unchanged, that is, the court must still be satisfied that the marriage has irretrievably broken down before it will grant a decree. Only the facts in support of that ground are proposed to be changed so that the requirements become less stringent and more realistic.
The Bill proposes abolition of the fact of desertion. During the consultation exercise carried out by the Law Reform Commission, there were mixed views as to whether this fact should be retained. The decision to abolish was taken on the basis that since the separation period for non-consent divorce cases is to be reduced to two years, the fact of desertion, which under the present law is also for a period of two years, becomes obsolete. There is, however, one difference between the two facts. In separation without consent cases, it may well be that the spouses agree to separate but only that no consent for divorce is forthcoming from the respondent spouse. In desertion cases, the spouse being deserted does not consent to the separation itself. The deserting spouse forces it on him or her. In these circumstances, it would not be fair to put the spouse being deserted and the deserting spouse in the same position and require the innocent party to have to wait for two years before instituting divorce. Furthermore, the behaviour of a spouse is a relevant factor which the court can consider when making orders relating to financial provision and the deserted spouse should not be deprived of the opportunity of putting forward the fact of desertion for cosideration by the court. I therefore support the
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amendment which the Honourable Peggy LAM will later on move to retain the fact of desertion but reducing the relevant period to that of one year.
Rev FUNG Chi-Wood intends to move an amendment to increase the time restriction on divorce proceedings from the one year after marriage as proposed in the Bill to two years. I have no doubt about Rev FUNG’s good intentions. In my experience as a family law practitioner, I have witnessed the failure of many marriages, I have managed to salvage a few, but I have yet to see any marriage which has broken down being resuscitated merely by delaying the divorce process. Under the proposed new law, separation for one year with consent of the respondent spouse is sufficient to prove irretrievable breakdown of the marriage. If the marriage has broken down, then in my view, no useful purpose would be served by making the parties wait for another year even if this breakdown occurred in the early stages of the marriage. Rev FUNG may be worried about cases where the parties marry and then the following day or shortly thereafter give joint notice of intention to divorce so that divorce can take place one year after marriage. This may encourage people to make hasty decisions to marry, he may say. Apart from the fact that in practice, a divorce cannot be obtained so soon as one year after marriage for the divorce proceedings cannot be commented before expiration of the one-year period and the divorce proceedings take at least six months, I do not believe that people marry with divorce in mind. I agree that the marriage may be more vulnerable at this early stage and that the parties to the marriage require some time to consolidate their relationship. But the parties themselves need to make effort. In the exceptional case where the parties do not make such an effort but rather bring themselves to actually agree to divorce very shortly after marriage, experience tells us that such marriages are usually not built on solid foundation in the first place and are doomed for failure in any event. To compel prolongation of such sand-castle type of marriages, which may result in children being born to the parties thus producing more complications, is in the interest of neither the parties themselves nor to society as a whole.
In a letter issued by Rev FUNG to Members of this Council, he pointed out that in the survey conducted by Market Behaviour in 1992 on behalf of the City and New Territories Administration, only 3% of 1 000 respondents supported the one-year option. What he has however omitted to mention is that in the same survey a significant 35% of the respondents supported total abolition of any time restriction on divorce after marriage. In these circumstances, I cannot support Rev FUNG’s amendment.
Mr President, with these remarks, I support the Bill.
DR LAM KUI-CHUN: Mr President, it has long been accepted that marriage, sex and upbringing of children form a coherent triad in the central concept of the family. Despite variations in the structure of a typical family, this concept has so far served the human race well through the history of man. The reason
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for this success is that children in such families are generally wanted and cared for, and this in the biological context works in favour of survival of the race.
In the last three decades or so, the three components of this concept are progressively disengaged in the rise of individualism in the western culture. This culture is pervading Hong Kong now. So, sex is indulged in outside of marriage. Children are aborted rather than born. Upbringing of children may be left to non-members of the family, sometimes to a total stranger called the Director of Social Welfare. Many societies change the definition of a family to a mother with her children, with or without some kind of man. In one case I know, a family consists only of a man and two stepchildren, his own having been taken away by his divorced wife.
From a different angle, marriage nowadays may be viewed as no more than a ceremony. Sometimes, the ceremony of marriage is not even a form of bondage but a means to an end, such as to get a resident status. Some couples see a need to make arrangements for divorce even before marrying, such as limiting the amount of alimony a divorced partner can claim form the other, and we had prominent revelation of one such example in Hong Kong last week. In the United States where love is the dominant theme in most social or entertianment activities, marriage is followed by a 50% divorce rate. This means that the average marriage in that country has no better a chance of life-long success than getting heads or tails on flipping a coin. The point in this observation relevant to the Matrimonial Causes (Amendment) Bill 1994 is that with easy and widespread divorce people enter the bondage of marriage without any deep thought about what ought to be a life-long commitment.
The problem with breaking down the traditional concept of the family is that broken families are associated with not only considerable misery to both parties but also neglect of children. Children brought up without proper family education live closer by the rules of the jungle than those of a civilized society. That leads to a higher crime rate. The behaviour of man injuring one another is detrimental to the human race.
This Matrimonial Causes (Amendment) Bill 1994 helps basically to facilitate divorce by shortening the waiting period from the time of decision to the formal breakup, although it also alters the basis of divorce to a no-fault mutual agreement for many cases. By making divorce easier, it further weakens the shaky concept of marriage being a life long bondage.
The impact of the Bill can be assessed by the answer to the following questions:
1. By making divorce easier, would it generate more relief than misery? Views are conflicting. The Government accepts the view that allowing two incompatible people to part ways can only generate relief. It is also convinced that children would be better off staying with a single parent than with two quarrelling parents.
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However, there is also the alternative view that children would prefer seeing both parents together, whether quarrelling or not. Apparently, there is no objective data on this issue.
2. Would shortening the waiting period to divorce increase the number of divorces? The Government can quote only from statistics in Scotland and conclude that this facilitation merely clears a backlog of divorces without affecting the long-term trend. I think one swallow does not make a summer. What worries me is that easy divorces destroy the concept of marriage being life-long bondages. Hence, people may enter marriage lightly, knowing they can opt out promptly. That leaves miserable children.
3. Would easy access to divorce cause more marriage to become irreparable? Lawyers seem convinced that by the time couples come to them seeking divorce, nothing effective can realistically be done to save the marriage. What the lawyers are not in a good position to assess is what goes on before they are approached. That is, whether mild family quarrels that formerly stay no more than such would now lead to rapid intolerance by one party, so that impulsive decisions might lead more readily to an early approach of the lawyer. This is a blind spot in the lawyer’s vision. Unfortunately, this Bill is a recommendation from the Law Reform Commission, a law body. On this point, I realize that the Government has considered the desires of the public, which is supportive of early separation of incompatible couples. However, this consultation rests on the supposition that a marriage has already reached the state of irreparable damage, and so is beyond the stage of my present consideration. In the end, I think the possible demerits of this Bill has not been adequately annihilated by good objective data.
Mr President, this Bill strikes at the basic unit of society, that is, the family. I have the overall impression that it is drafted before all necessary information is available to evaluate its merits and demerits. I am very apprehensive about its long-term impact on society. I have grave reservations on the direction in which this Bill is taking our society.
MR MOSES CHENG (in Cantonese): Mr President, with the prevalence of married men “keeping second wives” in the Mainland, the younger generation adopting an open attitude towards sex and the rate of divorce ever increasing, people at first glance of the Matrimonial Causes (Amendment) Bill 1994 may criticize that it will help spread the above malpractices, thereby further destroying the marriage system. But as a matter of fact, the intention of this amendment is just the opposite. We only want to alleviate the unnecessary pressure of divorce on married couples. And the final goal is still to render families harmonious and united.
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I have to emphasize that the amendment to the Matrimonial Causes Ordinance cannot be regarded as an encouragement to divorce. Even though the law has loosened the restriction on divorce, I believe that it will not directly stimulate the rate of divorce. The reason is very simple. Will decriminalization of homosexuality make more people change their sexual tendency? For the same reason, will an affectionate couple separate simply because of this amendment?
Our legislation seeks to regulate the marriage system; unfortunately, it cannot guarantee that every couple will remain united till the end of their lives. In order to maintain a long marriage life, what is needed is not a marriage certificate but the deep affection between husband and wife. Because of this, to those couples who have problems in their marriage, the purpose of the proposed amendment is that apart from reducing the poignant experience that a broken couple has to endure during the divorce proceedings, it will safeguard the rights and interests of both husband and wife by providing an opportunity for the couple to mend the crack in their marriage so as to avoid ending in divorce.
Mr President, on one hand we have to help relieve the pain of those broken couples during the divorce proceedings, while on the other hand what is more important is that the Administration has to step up publicity and counselling services in order to strengthen the social recognition of the important concepts such as marriage and family as well as to consolidate the entirety of family network.
“Precaution is better than cure”. This is true not only with our health care, but also with our marriage system. In promoting family education, the government departments and the organizations concerned now tend to adopt a crisis-management approach, that is, they will provide assistance to a married couple only after their marriage problem has arisen. In my opinion, apart from providing counselling services, the Hong Kong Government should also adopt a set of preventive policies to positively educate single or married people on how to face the marriage system with a right attitude, how to maintain happy marriage life with affection, how to face and solve the marriage problems, and so on.
As a matter of fact, there are at present enquiry counters set up in various Marriage Registries by the Family Planning Association of Hong Kong to provide the related counselling services to the prospective married people. However, people always focus their attention on family planning but neglect the equally important, if not more important, pre marriage and post-marriage counselling services. The success of the “Two is Enough” family planning propaganda is obvious to all, and which is entirely attributed to the protracted and comprehensive promotion and publicity work. The Administration should use this successful example as reference. It should combine the existing service resources of the government departments and the related voluntary agencies in order to implement a set of precaution-oriented marriage counselling and family service policies.
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According to the information provided by the Health and Welfare Branch, the Administration is now considering to introduce “one-stop” comprehensive counselling services to those couples who ask for a divorce. I would welcome this proposal. However, I cannot help asking why the Administration does not positively arrange “one-stop” marriage counselling services instead of taking a negative attitude by making the potential divorcees as their service targets. The Administration explained that the reason for not setting up an independent organization to co-ordinate the provision of marriage counselling services was to avoid double spending of resources for the same purpose. I would not agree with the above explanation. I would think that with a specific organization to co-ordinate and to provide marriage counselling services, the time of the users can be saved on the one hand while the unnecessary procedures of case-referring among the departments can be reduced on the other. As a result, the resources can be more efficiently allocated while the effects more notable. What can be better than killing two birds with one stone?
Mr President, with these remarks, I support the Matrimonial Causes (Amendment) Bill 1994.
SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS: Mr President, I would like to thank the Honourable Mrs Peggy LAM, chairperson of the Bills Committee to study the Matrimonial Causes (Amendment) Bill 1994, and the other Members of the Bills Committee for their constructive suggestions, time and effort spent in scrutinizing the Bill.
The law of divorce in Hong Kong has remained largely unchanged for the past 20 years or so. Over that period, community attitudes towards divorce have altered. There is now a widespread view that current divorce legislation imposes unnecessarily onerous requirements on those seeking a divorce. This view is reflected in the findings of a comprehensive survey of public opinion commissioned by the Law Reform Commission. Further to those findings and its consultations with experts and interested parties working in this field, the Law Reform Commission made recommendations in 1992 for an overhaul of the divorce law. The Bill seeks to implement these recommendations.
As I mentioned when I introduced the Bill into this Council on 12 October 1994, its underlying objective is to reduce the hardship, acrimony and distress that so often accompany divorce proceedings. Such ill feeling can arise in part from the current requirement that divorce proceedings must be conducted on an adversarial basis, with one party as petitioner and the other party as respondent. To avoid this, the Bill provides for the introduction of a new non-adversarial means of obtaining a divorce by joint application based on either one year’s prior separation or one year’s period of notice. Under the latter procedure, the couple are not obliged to separate. This will mitigate difficulties caused by the current requirement to find separate accommodation in advance of divorce where prior separation is relied on in divorce proceedings.
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In supporting this new joint application procedure, Members of the Bills Committee suggested that it should be available to all couples undertaking divorce proceeding. That is, by means of consequential amendments to the Matrimonial Proceeding and Property Ordinance, couples who have not reached final agreement with respect to child custody, financial arrangements and other matters concerning ancillary relief should also be able to undertake divorce proceedings by joint application. We accept this suggestion. It is in line with the principle of our Bill to promote a non-fault-based approach to divorce.
The Bill provides for a reduction in the time restriction on divorce early in marriage from the current three years to one year. I note that Rev FUNG Chi-wood is due at Committee stage to move an amendment that would provide for the time restriction on divorce early in marriage to be set at two years. The Administration’s view remains that the one-year period proposed by the Law Reform Commission is appropriate. The proposed two-year time bar will create undue hardship to the couples whose marriages have genuinely broken down irretrievably at an early stage. I note that the proposal was not supported by a majority of the Bills Committee.
Members of the Bills Committee expressed concern about whether the Administration is making adequate provision for marriage counselling services in the community. Indeed, Honourable Members who have just spoken highlight these concerns. Let me take this opportunity to re-assure Honourable Members and the public generally that the Administration recognizes the family as fundamental to society and has been devoting considerable resources to expand, strengthen, and promote the services in support of the family. I understand from the Secretary for Health and Welfare that a number of new initiatives have been undertaken recently to strengthen these services. They include an increase in the number of family caseworkers, and the opening of a Family Care Demonstration and Resources Centre and 19 Family Activity and Resources Centres. We are also committed to making information on marriage counselling and mediation services more available and accessible to potential clients. The information will be widely distributed through various channels including the Divorce Registry, Legal Aid Offices, the police, the Social Welfare Department, District Offices of the Home Affairs Department, non-governmental organizations and legal practitioners working in the family law area.
With these remarks, Mr President, I recommend the Bill to Members. Question on the Second Reading of the Bill put and agreed to.
Bill read the Second time.
Bill committed to a Committee of the whole Council pursuant to Standing Order 43(1).
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995 3791 LAND SURVEY BILL
Resumption of debate on Second Reading which was moved on 30 March 1994 Question on Second Reading proposed.
MR EDWARD HO: Mr President, the Land Survey Bill, introduced into the Legislative Council on 30 March 1994, seeks to provide a regulatory framework for the control of standard of land boundary surveys by the registration of authorized land surveyors who will be required to carry out the work according to codes of practice approved by the Land Survey Authority.
At present, Hong Kong has no statutory regulation of standards of land boundary surveys or how such surveys should be carried out. There is no requirement for land boundary plans to accompany instruments registered in the Land Registry under the Land Registration Ordinance. Although plans are usually attached to the instruments for registration purposes, they are of varying degrees of accuracy and reliability. The Bill is intended as a first step in raising the standard of land boundary plans. After the commencement of the Ordinance, deeds and instruments affecting the division of land will need to be accompanied by land boundary plans prepared and certified by Authorized Land Surveyors.
The Bills Committee, of which I am the chairman, was set up to study the Bill. The Bills Committee held four meetings with the Administration. It received written representations from the Real Estate Developers Association, the Law Society of Hong Kong and two interested individuals and met with representatives of the first organization.
The Real Estate Developers Association’s main concerns are whether there is an adequate number of qualified land surveyors in the private sector, whether other sites or section boundaries would be legalized when a deed is registered by an authorized surveyor and the likelihood of increase in boundary disputes which the courts may not be able to cope with.
The Law Society’s Land Use Planning Committee questions whether it is necessary or desirable to have separate registration and disciplinary procedures for land surveyors. It also considers that the rationale for clause 31, which only permits an authorized land surveyor or an employee authorized by the surveyor to obtain copies of land boundary plans, should be explained. Regarding clause 32 subclause (2), it considers that there should be provisions for representations before the filing of any notice by the Authority and that there should be provision for an appeal against such notice by a person aggrieved thereby to the Lands Tribunal. It also suggests that the Bill should enable owners to file plans of past transactions and other interests over land so as to enable a more authoritative and accessible system to be built up generally.
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One of the individuals who have written in criticizes the lack of provision for public inspection of land boundary plans under the Bill. He is also concerned that clause 32 may adversely affect the title of the land owner.
The Bills Committee discussed these areas of concern and other points raised by Members with the Administration. I will briefly report on the discussion of the main issues.
The Bill seeks to establish a Land Surveyors Registration Committee to establish and maintain a register of Authorized Land Surveyors, and to consider and decide on applications for registration, renewal and reinstatement. The Administration has considered adopting the registration and disciplinary procedures of the Surveyors Registration Ordinance in the Land Survey Bill. However, since the Ordinance provides for the registration of all disciplines of surveyors while the Bill provides for the registration and discipline of land surveyors engaged in land boundary surveys and for the control of survey standards, the Administration considers that the objects of the Bill would be better achieved by a separate registration and discipline system. Separately, the Administration is considering the overall questions of applying professional registration to statutory functions and the matter will be reviewed in that wider context.
Regarding the supply of land surveyors, the Administration has confirmed that there are sufficient practitioners in the market to meet the demand arising from the implementation of the Bill. A new degree course in the Hong Kong Polytechnic University has produced its first batch of graduates last summer and there is a steady supply of qualified land surveyors.
At present, the Hong Kong Institute of Surveyors is required to publish under its own constitution the recommended scale of professional charges and such information is available for public inspection. I have written to the Institute requesting it to confirm that it would accept and investigate complaints from members of the public relating to the charges and quality of service provided by its members. The Institute has given its assurance that there would be proper channels for complaints and adequate protection for consumers.
In order not to create a sudden surge of demand on the services of both the Land Registry and Authorized Land Surveyors, under clause 30, only instruments effecting a division of land and delivered to the Land Registry for registration under the Land Registration Ordinance will need to be accompanied by a land boundary plan prepared and certified by an Authorized Land Surveyor. The usual conveyancing documents involving no physical division of land parcels will not be affected by the Bill. I have also written to the Hong Kong Institute of Surveyors asking it to advise how it would ensure that its clients fully understand that only the new division lines would be guaranteed by the Authorized Land Surveyor. In response, the Institute has undertaken to look into the possibility of making it obligatory for the future Authorized Land
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Surveyors to advise their clients that the new legislation only has effect on new division of land.
In addition, I understand that the Honourable Ronald ARCULLI will be moving an amendment to clause 30 at the Committee stage. To make it clear, the land boundary plans submitted under clause 30 shall not affect any other land boundaries. Although Mr ARCULLI’s proposed amendment was put in after the Bills Committee has concluded its scrutiny of the Bill, Members have not indicated any objection to the amendment.
Regarding the concern over the rationale of clause 31 which only allows authorized land surveyors and their employees to obtain copies of land boundary plans or survey record plan, the Adminstration has explained that there is no intention to restrict public access to the records. Land survey plans will continue to be available to the general public in the Land Registry. However, survey record plans and other survey data will be restricted to Authorized Land Surveyors and their authorized employees to avoid the misuse of data which could have serious repercussions.
Finally, to allay concern that the registration of a notice of inaccuracy under clause 32 may adversely affect the title of the land owner, the Administration has proposed to delete the clause. It has also proposed amendments to clause 20(1) and the addition of a new subclause 30 (7A) to confer statutory power on the Land Survey Authority to improve the accuracy of the land boundary plans and survey record plans deposited with the Authority. The Authority may require an authorized Land Surveyor who certificates a land boundary plan or a survey record plan to amend it to comply with any code of practice under the Bill. If he fails to comply with the requirement, he could be disciplined according to clause 20 of the Bill. The Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands will move a number of amendments at the Committee stage to bring about these changes.
Mr President, with these remarks, I commend the Land Survey Bill to Honourable Members.
MR RONALD ARCULLI: Mr President, I am grateful for this opportunity to explain to Honourable Members the background to my proposed amendment to clause 30 of the Land Survey Bill.
As has already been explained by my colleague, the Honourable Edward HO, chairman of the Bills Committee, the intention of the Bill is to help establish land boundary records. The Real Estate Developers Association (REDA) expressed concern over the effect of clause 30. After subjecting the text to detailed scrutiny, I share REDA’s concern of the potential problem, namely that upon sub-dividing a piece of land and thus creating one new boundary, statutory recognition might unintentionally be given to all other surrounding boundaries. After detailed consultation with the Administration, an
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amendment has therefore been proposed with the intention of placing it beyond doubt that land boundary plans submitted under clause 30 shall not affect any other land boundaries.
I hope that by so stating in the Bill, any confusion which might otherwise have arisen over this issue can be avoided. Despite initial hesitancy, I am grateful to the Administration for not disagreeing with this approach.
I urge my honourable colleagues to support my amendment which I will move at the Committee stage.
Thank you, President.
SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS: Mr President, I am grateful to the Honourable Edward HO, chairman of the Bills Committee on the Land Survey Bill, for supporting the Bill, and to other Members of the Bills Committee for their careful and detailed deliberations over the last 11 months.
The Land Survey Bill seeks to provide for the registration and discipline of land surveyors engaged in land boundary surveys, for the control of standards of land boundary surveys, for the establishment of land boundary records and for related matters.
In the course of the Bills Committee’s deliberations, Members raised concern over clause 30(1). This clause requires any deed, conveyance or other instrument in writing effecting a division of any land and delivered in the Land Registry for registration to be accompanied by a land boundary plan. The plan should show and delineate the parcels of land resulting from the division and be signed and certified by an authorized land surveyor. There was concern that this provision would affect the rights and interests of land owners.
I would like to assure Members that the Bill does not affect or change the law relating to entitlements to land and interests of land owners. A system of registration of deeds is provided under the Land Registration Ordinance. Such deeds are, as a normal practice, accompanied by plans. Clause 30(1) of the Bill only requires that such plans must accompany the deeds and be signed and certified by an authorized land surveyor where the deeds concern divisions of land.
Registration of instruments, whether or not accompanied by a plan, only governs the priority of each registered instrument under the Land Registration Ordinance. Registration by itself does not confer validity on the instrument or the plan accompanying it when it does not otherwise have.
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Through the enactment of the Bill, the Government will be able to start building up an effective land record system which will provide a more reliable, accurate and unambiguous definition of land parcel boundaries.
The Bills Committee also raised concern over the protection of consumers with regard to the publication of fees charged by authorized land surveyors.
Members may wish to note that such information is already quite accessible to the general public. The Hong Kong Institute of Surveyors publishes a “Scale of Professional Charges for Land Surveying Services in Hong Kong” and revises it annually. All chartered land surveyors practising in Hong Kong are encouraged to adopt the scale. In view of Members’ concern, the Administration will advise authorized land surveyors to inform their clients of the availability of the Scale upon commencement of the legislation.
Mr President, as a result of the Administration’s discussion with the Bills Committee, I shall later move 18 amendments during the Committee stage to improve the Bill.
The Administration also does not disagree with the Honourable Ronald ARCULLI’s proposed addition of new clause 30(9) to the Land Survey Bill. A land boundary plan under the Bill does not have effects beyond those it has under the Land Registration Ordinance. As I have said earlier, the Bill does not effect a change of law relating to entitlements to land and interests of land owners.
Thank you, Mr President.
Question on the Second Reading of the Bill put and agreed to.
Bill read the Second time.
Bill committed to a Committee of the whole Council pursuant to Standing Order 43(1).
Committee Stage of Bills
Council went into Committee.
MATRIMONIAL CAUSES (AMENDMENT) BILL 1994
Clauses 1 to 5, 9 and 11 to 18 were agreed to.
Clause 6
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SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS: Mr Chairman, I move that clause 6 of the Bill be amended as set out under my name in the paper circulated to Members.
Clause 6(a) seeks to amend section 6 of the Principal Ordinance under which a wife is treated differently from a husband in respect of the court’s jurisdiction to presume death. Clause 6(a) provides for habitual residence of three years in, or substantial connection with, Hong Kong by either of the parties to a marriage to be grounds for jurisdiction in such circumstances. In practice, however, where it is submitted that the respondent should be presumed to have died, it would not be possible to show that he or she had been habitually resident in Hong Kong for three years “immediately preceding the date of the petition”. We therefore propose to amend clause 6(a) by substituting “the petitioner” under the new section 6(1)(b) for “either of the parties to the marriage”.
Mr Chairman, I beg to move.
Proposed amendment
Clause 6
That clause be amended, by deleting “either of the parties to the marriage” and substituting “the petitioner”.
Question on the amendment proposed, put and agreed to.
Question on clause 6, as amended, proposed, put and agreed to.
Clause 7
SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS: Mr Chairman, I move that clause 7 of the Bill be amended as set out in the paper circulated to Members.
The amendment to clause 7 corrects a printing error in the gazetted version of the Bill in the alphabetical numbering under the new section 11.
Mr Chairman, I beg to move.
Proposed amendment
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995 3797 Clause 7
That clause 7 be amended, in the proposed section 11, by deleting “(a)” where it last occurs and substituting “(b)”.
Question on the amendment proposed, put and agreed to.
MRS PEGGY LAM: Mr Chairman, I move that clause 7 be further amended as set out under my name in the paper circulated to Members.
Clause 7 seeks to abolish desertion for two years as a fact that can be cited in divorce proceedings to demonstrate that a marriage has broken down irretrievably. The rationale put forward for this proposal was that the fact of desertion for two years would be made redundant by the proposal to reduce the minimum separation period for divorce, where one party does not consent from five years to two years. The Bills Committee that studied the Bill, of which I was chairperson, considered that the proposed abolition is unfair to petitioners for divorce in two regards.
Firstly, divorce without consent and divorce upon desertion are different in nature. Abolition of the latter would deprive petitioners of a unique cause to seek divorce.
Secondly, the behaviour of the parties to a marriage is one of the considerations of the court in granting court orders with respect to child custody and financial arrangements. In this regard, abandonment of spouses and even children is considered as an indication of irresponsibility and usually results in court orders being granted to the favour of the deserted party. The proposed abolition of desertion as a fact to be cited for divorce petition would deprive the deserted parties of the right to establish this fact during the proceedings concerned. Accordingly, I proposed retaining desertion as a fact to be cited in divorce petitions. In order to maintain the spirit of the principal Ordinance that the minimum separation period for divorce where one party does not consent should be longer than the minimum duration of desertion, the amendment provides for the latter period to be shortened to one year immediately preceding the divorce petition.
Mr Chairman, I beg to move.
Proposed amendment
Clause 7
That clause 7 be further amended, in the proposed section 11A(2) by adding —
3798 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 17 May 1995
“(e) that the respondent has deserted the petitioner for a continuous period of at least 1 year immediately preceding the presentation of the petition.”.
Question on the amendment proposed, put and agreed to.
Question on clause 7, as amended, proposed, put and agreed to.
Clauses 8 and 10
REV FUNG CHI-WOOD (in Cantonese): Mr Chairman, I move that Clauses 8 amd 10 be amended as set out under my name in the paper circulated to Members. The amendment seeks to define the time restriction on divorce proceedings as two years after marriage. I wish Members will support the amendment.
Proposed amendments
Clause 8
That clause 8 be amended, by deleting the clause and substituting —
“8. Restriction on petitions within
three years of marriage
Section 12(1) is amended by repealing “no petition for divorce shall be presented to the court before the expiration of the period of 3 years” and substituting “no petition for divorce or application for divorce shall be presented to the court before the expiration of the period of 2 years”.”.
Clause 10
That clause 10 be amended, by deleting the clause and substituting — “10. Hearing of petition
Section 15 is amended -
(a) by repealing subsection (1) and substituting -
“(1) In any proceedings for divorce it shall be the
duty of the court to inquire, in so far as it reasonably can, into
any facts alleged by any party to the proceedings.”;
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