HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2423 OFFICIAL RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Wednesday, 8 March 1995
The Council met at half-past Two o'clock
PRESENT
THE PRESIDENT
THE HONOURABLE SIR JOHN SWAINE, C.B.E., LL.D., Q.C., J.P.
THE CHIEF SECRETARY
THE HONOURABLE MRS ANSON CHAN, C.B.E., J.P.
THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY
THE HONOURABLE SIR NATHANIEL WILLIAM HAMISH MACLEOD, K.B.E., J.P.
THE ATTORNEY GENERAL
THE HONOURABLE JEREMY FELL MATHEWS, C.M.G., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE ALLEN LEE PENG-FEI, C.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE MRS SELINA CHOW LIANG SHUK-YEE, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE HUI YIN-FAT, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE MARTIN LEE CHU-MING, Q.C., J.P.
DR THE HONOURABLE DAVID LI KWOK-PO, O.B.E., LL.D., J.P. THE HONOURABLE PANG CHUN-HOI, M.B.E.
THE HONOURABLE SZETO WAH
THE HONOURABLE TAM YIU-CHUNG
THE HONOURABLE ANDREW WONG WANG-FAT, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE EDWARD HO SING-TIN, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE RONALD JOSEPH ARCULLI, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE MRS MIRIAM LAU KIN-YEE, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE LAU WAH-SUM, O.B.E., J.P.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2424 DR THE HONOURABLE LEONG CHE-HUNG, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE JAMES DAVID McGREGOR, O.B.E., I.S.O., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS ELSIE TU, C.B.E.
THE HONOURABLE ALBERT CHAN WAI-YIP
THE HONOURABLE VINCENT CHENG HOI-CHUEN, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MOSES CHENG MO-CHI
THE HONOURAE MARVIN CHEUNG KIN-TUNG, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG MAN-KWONG
THE HONOURABLE CHIM PUI-CHUNG
REV THE HONOURABLE FUNG CHI-WOOD
THE HONOURABLE FREDERICK FUNG KIN-KEE
THE HONOURABLE TIMOTHY HA WING-HO, M.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL HO MUN-KA
DR THE HONOURABLE HUANG CHEN-YA
DR THE HONOURABLE LAM KUI-CHUN
DR THE HONOURABLE CONRAD LAM KUI-SHING, J.P. THE HONOURABLE EMILY LAU WAI-HING
THE HONOURABLE LEE WING-TAT
THE HONOURABLE ERIC LI KA-CHEUNG, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE FRED LI WAH-MING
THE HONOURABLE MAN SAI-CHEONG
THE HONOURABLE STEVEN POON KWOK-LIM
THE HONOURABLE TIK CHI-YUEN
THE HONOURABLE JAMES TO KUN-SUN
DR THE HONOURABLE SAMUEL WONG PING-WAI, M.B.E., J.P.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2425 DR THE HONOURABLE PHILIP WONG YU-HONG
DR THE HONOURABLE YEUNG SUM
THE HONOURABLE HOWARD YOUNG, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE ZACHARY WONG WAI-YIN
DR THE HONOURABLE TANG SIU-TONG, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE CHRISTINE LOH KUNG-WAI
THE HONOURABLE ROGER LUK KOON-HOO
THE HONOURABLE ANNA WU HUNG-YUK
THE HONOURABLE JAMES TIEN PEI-CHUN, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE ALFRED TSO SHIU-WAI
THE HONOURABLE LEE CHEUK-YAN
ABSENT
THE HONOURABLE NGAI SHIU-KIT, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE LAU WONG-FAT, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE MARTIN GILBERT BARROW, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE MRS PEGGY LAM, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE PETER WONG HONG-YUEN, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE SIMON IP SIK-ON, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE HENRY TANG YING-YEN, J.P.
IN ATTENDANCE
MR MICHAEL LEUNG MAN-KIN, C.B.E., J.P.
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER
MR MICHAEL SUEN MING-YEUNG, C.B.E., J.P.
SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2426
MR CHAU TAK-HAY, C.B.E., J.P.
SECRETARY FOR TRADE AND INDUSTRY
MR HAIDER HATIM TYEBJEE BARMA, I.S.O., J.P.
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT
MR DONALD TSANG YAM-KUEN, O.B.E., J.P.
SECRETARY FOR THE TREASURY
MR MICHAEL DAVID CARTLAND, J.P.
SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES
MR DOMINIC WONG SHING-WAH, O.B.E., J.P.
SECRETARY FOR HOUSING
MRS KATHERINE FOK LO SHIU-CHING, O.B.E., J.P.
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE
MRS ELIZABETH MARGARET BOSHER, J.P.
SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES
MR CANICE MAK CHUN-FONG, J.P.
DEPUTY SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS
MR KENNETH JOSEPH WOODHOUSE, J.P.
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY
THE CLERK TO THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL
MR RICKY FUNG CHOI-CHEUNG
THE DEPUTY SECRETARY GENERAL
MR LAW KAM-SANG
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2427 PAPERS
The following papers were laid on the table pursuant to Standing Order 14(2): Subject
Subsidiary Legislation L.N. No. Public Revenue Protection (Dutiable Commodities) Order 1995..... 73/95 Public Revenue Protection (Estate Duty) Order 1995 ...................... 74/95
Radiographers (Registration and Disciplinary Procedure)
Regulation ................................................................................ 75/95
Census and Statistics (Annual Survey of Industrial Production)
(Amendment) Order 1995 ........................................................ 76/95
Census and Statistics (Annual Survey of Building, Construction
and Real Estate Sectors) (Amendment) Order 1995................. 77/95
Census and Statistics (Annual Survey of Wholesale and Retail
Trades, Restaurants, and Hotels) (Amendment) Order 1995 .... 78/95
Census and Statistics (Annual Survey of Transport and Related
Services) (Amendment) Order 1995......................................... 79/95
Census and Statistics (Annual Survey of Storage, Communication,
Financing, Insurance and Business Services) (Amendment)
Order 1995................................................................................ 80/95
Public Swimming Pools (Regional Council) (Amendment) Bylaw
1995.......................................................................................... 81/95
Official Languages (Authentic Chinese Text) (Reformatory
Schools Ordinance) Order ........................................................ (C)17/95
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2428 Sessional Papers 1994-95
No. 71 — Hong Kong Council for Academic Accreditation Annual Report 1993-94
No. 72 — Regional Council Revised Estimates of Expenditure 1994-95
No. 73 — Revised List of Works Annexed to the Regional Council's Revised Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure for 1994-95
ADDRESS
Hong Kong Council for Academic Accreditation Annual Report 1993-94
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER: Mr President, I have pleasure in presenting the Hong Kong Council for Academic Accreditation's (HKCAA) Fourth Annual Report 1993-94 and highlighting some of the main features during the year under review.
The HKCAA's role and responsibilities are to validate degree programmes and review the general academic standards of Hong Kong's four non-university tertiary institutions. It disseminates information on the development of higher education, quality assurance and academic standards, develops links with accreditation bodies throughout the world, and advises the Government, other organizations and individuals on the comparability of academic standards and the accredited status of academic qualifications.
During 1993-94, the HKCAA completed 19 review exercises comprising validations, revalidations, consultancy studies and the monitoring of conditions and requirements placed on degree programmes.
The Council continued to work closely with the Academy for Performing Arts, the Open Learning Institute of Hong Kong, Lingnan College and the newest Hong Kong tertiary institution, the Hong Kong Institute of Education, for which it conducted institutional and programme reviews and provided guidance on quality assurance.
In response to increased concerns over academic accreditation and recognition, the HKCAA has expanded its advisory role and during the year provided information and advice on higher education, quality assurance and standards to the Government, other organizations and members of the public. Notably, its role in providing information and guidance with regard to overseas education initiatives in Hong Kong expanded significantly.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2429
In order to establish the comparability of qualifications and to share experience of quality assurance methods gained worldwide, the HKCAA continued its overseas liaison activities. During the year, the Council continued to strengthen its links with higher education organizations and individuals outside Hong Kong, including the People's Republic of China and Taiwan. The HKCAA continued to administer the International Network for Quality Assurance Agencies in Higher Education, whose membership numbered 70 organizations from 36 different countries.
Following the recommendations of the Education Commission's Report No. 5 regarding the development of an Institute of Education and the upgrading of teachers' qualifications, the HKCAA provided advice to the Government on qualifications and training for the teaching profession. In particular, it carried out consultancy studies covering the four teacher education colleges and the Institute of Language in Education and participated in the work of the Advisory Committee on Teacher Education and Qualifications and its subcommittees.
Developments in some of Hong Kong's professional bodies resulted in the HKCAA being asked to advise on accreditation methods. It worked with the Hong Kong Institution of Engineers and the Hong Kong Society of Accountants to provide information and advice about qualifications and the way in which they could be evaluated.
Finally, I would like to take this opportunity to thank the Chairman and members of the HKCAA for their outstanding services made during the year and their continued contribution to the development of tertiary education in Hong Kong.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS
CAT Scanning Service
1. MR FREDERICK FUNG asked (in Cantonese): With regard to the provision of CAT scanning service, will the Government inform this Council:
(a) of the total number of CAT scanners in the hospitals managed by the Hospital Authority;
(b) of the respective figures for 1993/94 and 1994/95 regarding the average daily operating hours of the CAT scanners, the average daily number of patients receiving CAT scanning examination, and the average period of waiting for an appointment to use such service; and
(c) whether the Hospital Authority has referred its patients to private hospitals to receive CAT scanning examination; if so, what are the numbers of such cases in 1993/94 and 1994/95 respectively?
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2430
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr President, there are 10 CAT scanners currently installed in public hospitals managed by the Hospital Authority, capable of handling about 230 patients on a daily basis. Six of these scanners have been operating on a 24-hour basis since 1993, except for one each in Queen Mary Hospital, Caritas Medical Centre, Kwong Wah Hospital and Ruttonjee Hospital where radiologist and other supporting staff are put on call outside normal operating hours to provide service for patients.
Under the established clinical practice, all urgent patients will be examined by CAT scanners on the same day. Non-urgent patients are prioritized according to their need and the waiting time for 80% of such cases is within four weeks. This will be reduced further with the planned addition of two new scanners within the next financial year.
With the implementation of hospital clustering and service networking, there is no operational need to refer patients for CAT scanning outside the public hospital system. Some patients with non-urgent conditions may prefer to obtain earlier examination in the private sector, but no statistics are kept on the number of such cases.
PRESIDENT: As Members were reminded by circular on 3 March, supplementary questions should be confined to single questions. This circular was issued after consultation with the Procedures Subcommittee.
MR FREDERICK FUNG (in Cantonese): Mr President, on the basis of paragraphs two and three of the main reply given by the Secretary, I would like to put forward a follow-up question. This question is not brought up by myself but is related to a case made known to me. A patient who needed CAT scanning was asked by the Hospital Authority to wait for two months. As he could not afford to wait, the staff of the Hospital Authority suggested at the time that if he could not wait for two months he could go to a private hospital for the scanning service. So he went to a private hospital. When I ask this question today, this patient had already died of cancer six months after the incident took place. The Secretary mentioned in paragraph two that 80% of the patients could receive such treatment within four weeks. In other words, 20% of the patients can only receive such service after waiting for more than four weeks. In paragraph three of the reply, the Secretary mentioned that some patients preferred to go to private hospitals, but she did not say that it was probably the Hospital Authority staff who had suggested to the patients that they should seek treatment in the private sector. When the Government is unable to provide adequate public service to meet demands, it will resort to paying for the provision of such service from the private sector. For example, places are bought from private schools when there is a shortage of school places; and the same thing happens with places in elderly homes. Under these circumstances, will the Government consider buying such service from private hospitals?
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2431
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Our present provision of medical equipment, including CAT scanners in public hospitals, is adequate to cope with all urgent cases within the required standard of service. As I said in the main reply, no urgent cases will have to wait but patients with non-urgent conditions might prefer to opt for earlier treatment in the private sector. It is not the practice at the moment for the public sector to secure funds to finance patients going into the private sector for treatment.
PRESIDENT: Yes, not answered, Mr FUNG?
MR FREDERICK FUNG (in Cantonese): The Secretary has not answered my question. She said no funds had been secured for this purpose, but will she consider this?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: If there is a justifiable case in the future, I would not rule out the Government considering this.
REV FUNG CHI-WOOD (in Cantonese): Mr President, it is unacceptable that 20% of the patients have to wait for more than four weeks before they can receive CAT scanning as this will have serious consequences on the treatment and diagnosis results. The Secretary mentioned in her main reply that after the Hospital Authority had taken over this service, there was no operational need to refer patients for CAT scanning outside the public hospital system. Does this mean that some patients were referred to private hospitals in the past but no referrals have been made ever since the Hospital Authority has taken over? Does this indicate that there is a reduction in the provision of CAT scanning service?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: As I mentioned in the main reply, we have adequate CAT scanners in our public hospital system to cater for all urgent cases. It is only in non-urgent cases where patients have to wait. On average, up to 80% of our cases are provided with CAT scanner service within four weeks. The average waiting time for examination by CAT scanners for 80% of all non-urgent cases is kept within four weeks. The average waiting time ranges, for non-urgent cases that is, from within one week for the Caritas Medical Centre and Ruttonjee Hospital, to between one and three weeks for Queen Mary Hospital, Princess Margaret Hospital, Pamela Youde Nethersole and Eastern Hospitals and Kwong Wah Hospital, to between three and four weeks for Queen Elizabeth Hospital, to between one and eight weeks for the Prince of Wales Hospital and finally to between one and 10 weeks for the Tuen Mun Hospital.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2432 PRESIDENT: Rev FUNG, not answered?
REV FUNG CHI-WOOD (in Cantonese): I do not think the Secretary has answered my question. My question is, in the past, some patients were referred to private hospitals for CAT scanning, but this no longer happens. Does this indicate that the Government has reduced the provision of such service?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: There are adequate CAT scanners in the public hospital system. Therefore it is not necessary for patients to be referred for treatment in the private hospital sector. We have, altogether, 10 CAT scanners and six of these operate on a 24-hour basis, whereas the rest operate on an eight-hour basis but can be put on call outside operating hours. There is no reduction in the level of service or provision.
DR CONRAD LAM (in Cantonese): Mr President, as some smaller hospitals have not been installed with CAT scanners, patients have to go to major hospitals for CAT scanning whenever necessary. The current practice of the Hospital Authority is that the smaller hospitals have only one or two quotas a week for their patients to receive CAT scanning in major hospitals. Does the Government have any mechanism or guidelines in this respect so that arrangements can be made for patients to receive CAT scanning service according to the gravity of their case instead of the size of hospitals? Can a fair system be set up to enable patients to receive services they need when they seek treatment in public hospitals? If not, will the Administration consider issuing such guidelines?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: The Honourable Member refers to two circumstances, one of which being where patients are referred among the public hospitals under the Hospital Authority. No doubt this is an operational matter between the public hospitals, and with the networking between the various public hospitals in the Hospital Authority, this will be an operational matter between the hospitals and I shall certainly ask the Hospital Authority to improve their operational arrangements.
As for patients requiring urgent use of CAT scanning service, this is already the existing practice that urgent cases are dealt with within 24 hours.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2433 Mortgage Loans against Older Residential Property
2. MR JIMMY McGREGOR asked: In view of the fact that most if not all banks in Hong Kong severely restrict their mortgage lending against older residential property, will the Government inform this Council of its policy in relation to such lending?
SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES: Mr President, the Government does not have any policy specific to bank mortgage lending on older residential properties. In particular, the Hong Kong Monetary Authority has not issued any instructions to banks to be more cautious on lending on such properties. Banks are expected to observe the 70% mortgage ceiling guideline which applies to banks' residential mortgage lending in general. No distinction is made between old and new properties.
The Government is aware that banks in general tend to take a more cautious approach towards older properties. These are commercial decisions having regard to factors like the perceived poorer marketability, higher cost of maintenance and deteriorating quality of these properties relative to newer ones. It would be inappropriate for the Government to attempt to influence banks to assume risks higher than they themselves might otherwise wish to take.
Having said that, we understand that there is substantial variance amongst banks in their policies towards older properties. Age of property is not the only factor in determining the terms of a mortgage. Other important considerations include the repayment ability of the borrower, value and condition of the property, the borrower's relationship with the bank concerned, his credit history, the banks' overall exposure to the property sector, perceived market risk, and so on. The policy therefore varies from bank to bank. Within each bank, the terms of lending also vary from case to case even for properties of similar age. We are aware that some authorized institutions have even developed a "niche" in the older property market. A number of institutions seem to be prepared recently to relax their policy on older properties, that is, in respect of loan to value ratios. This indicates that individual banks will adjust their mortgage policies from time to time in different circumstances.
MR JIMMY McGREGOR: Mr President, will the Government consider the establishment of a task force to investigate the factors inhibiting bank lending on older properties and to make recommendations to remove such inhibiting factors, given the value of the Government's recent and effective intervention in the property market?
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2434
SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES: Mr President, the Administration's overriding concern in the area of mortgage lending is with the prudential supervision of the banks, rather than with the state of the property market or with addressing social issues relating to housing. Therefore that will remain our concern and our future direction will be guided by that. That does not exclude, of course, that solutions might not be found to problems such as those referred to by Mr McGREGOR. But they will have to be found in other directions than in obliging the banks to take on risks that they might not otherwise wish to undertake.
DR DAVID LI: Mr President, will the Government inform this Council under what condition the restrictive measures imposed on the property market in June 1994 are likely to be relaxed?
PRESIDENT: How does that arise from the main question and answer, Dr LI? You will have to explain to me how that supplementary arises from the main question and answer because a supplementary is intended to elucidate the main answer.
DR DAVID LI: Yes, Mr President, the reason is because the Government did impose some restrictions on the banks in June 1994, and that was the reason why banks are being extra careful in their lending on new or old properties. I was wondering when the Government is likely to revise those conditions.
PRESIDENT: I do not think that directly arises, or indirectly arises, from the main answer, Dr LI.
DR DAVID LI: I see.
PRESIDENT: I am sorry, I have to disallow your question.
MR RONALD ARCULLI: In the second and third paragraphs of his reply, the Secretary appeared to suggest that it is not government policy to intervene, at least in some aspects of the residential mortgage lending market, which seems to be contrary to the guideline referred to by him in the first paragraph. Will the Secretary inform this Council whether or not it is government policy to intervene in this market?
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2435
SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES: Mr President, the situation is that the Monetary Authority does watch the activities of the banks with regard to mortgage lending and seeks compliance with the 70% mortgage valuation guideline. It has one other benchmark level which is the overall exposure of banks to property in general and that level, at 40%, is a benchmark level beyond which banks will be approached by the Regulator and modifications will be sought to their lending practices to get them back below the 40% level. Those are the only forms of regulation or intervention that are actually going on in relation to mortgage lending practices.
PRESIDENT: Mr ARCULLI, not answered?
MR RONALD ARCULLI: I have a different question to ask, Mr President, so if anybody else has a question to ask then perhaps they should go first.
PRESIDENT: Yes, that would be a second supplementary.
DR LEONG CHE-HUNG: Will the Administration inform this Council whether there is any evidence of a link between urban decay and the unavailability of finance for the purchase of older residential properties?
SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES: That is not something which the banking regulators are looking for and it is not something which has come to their attention, Mr President.
MR CHIM PUI-CHUNG (in Cantonese): Mr President, the Secretary's reply has pointed out that the Government had no specific guidelines concerning old residential properties. However, some property owners in Central have recently put their properties on 100% mortgage. Will this affect the banking sector's mortgage policy on older residential properties? How would the Government react to such a move by the property owners?
SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES: Mr President, in fact the 70% mortgage guideline is generally observed but it may well be that Mr CHIM is referring to co financing schemes in which additional funding, to bridge the gap between the 70%, or to go above the 70%, from other sources has been sought. The fact that all or part of a mortgage might come from outside the banking sector is not in itself objectionable from a prudential point of view provided that it does not indirectly cause banks to assume undue risk.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2436 PRESIDENT: Yes, Mr CHIM, not answered?
MR CHIM PUI-CHUNG (in Cantonese): Mr President, the main point is that there are actually developers who publicize on newspapers that they provide 100% mortgage, a message which may lead to public misunderstanding. I would like to know whether this will affect the Government's policy of 70% mortgage ceiling guideline applied to banks; and whether this policy will be changed?
PRESIDENT: Well that is a second supplementary and it is really asking for an opinion, Mr CHIM.
MR JIMMY McGREGOR: Mr President, in view of the fact that many areas of older residential property are in a poor state of repair and generally decayed, will the Government inform this Council of the policies to rejuvenate decayed urban areas, many of which suffer from lower willingness by the banks to provide mortgages?
PRESIDENT: It is a pretty borderline supplementary, Mr McGREGOR. (Laughter) MR JIMMY McGREGOR: It is quite close, Mr President. (Laughter) PRESIDENT: I think that one just squeezes through, Secretary.
SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES: Mr President, as I indicated earlier, it is not the intention to use mortgage lending or pressuring banks on mortgage lending to solve other problems. Other solutions to those problems will have to be sought in other directions and I am not in a position to comment on the position from the housing point of view or the decaying urban areas point of view. But certainly, if there are solutions in other areas then that would have to be dealt with separately. For the time being, we intend to protect the position of the banks and to ensure that they do not over-expose themselves or put too many of their eggs in one basket, but rather have a prudential diversification in their loan books.
MR RONALD ARCULLI: Mr President, the Secretary referred to a 40% rule. Could he perhaps elaborate on what it is and what its impact might be on foreign banks as opposed to local banks because I have certainly heard complaints by foreign banks that they are being prejudiced in their operations?
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2437
SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES: Mr President, the 40% guideline on the banks' property-related lending is intended to ensure that banks exercise prudence in such lending. As I indicated earlier, it is a benchmark level. If banks exceed that level in their exposure to the property sector in their lending, then the Regulator will be in touch with them to seek modifications to get back below the 40% limit. It is not a rigid limit, but it represents a level of exposure at which banks in general need to be cautious. The general principle is that the banks do not expose themselves excessively to any particular sector or any particular line of business.
PRESIDENT: Mr ARCULLI, not answered?
MR RONALD ARCULLI: Not answered to the second part regarding its effect, if any, on foreign banks, Mr President?
PRESIDENT: I think that does take the supplementary beyond the scope of the answer and the supplementary answer. Next question.
Review of Urban Renewal Policy
3. MR ALBERT CHAN asked (in Cantonese): Two motions were passed by this Council in the 1991-92 and 1993-94 sessions, urging the Administation to review its urban renewal policy with a view to improving the compensation and rehousing arrangements for the affected property owners and tenants of redevelopment projects as well as improving the social effectiveness of such schemes. Despite its undertaking to carry out a review of the policy, the Government has so far not reported the outcome of such review to this Council. In this regard, will the Government inform this Council:
(a) what progress has been made so far in its review of the urban renewal policy; whether the Government has drawn up any concrete proposals for deliberation by this Council; and
(b) whether it will consider injecting more funds to help rehouse residents affected by redevelopment or adopting other measures so as to enhance the Land Development Corporation's capability of undertaking urban redevelopment projects, in order to speed up the urban renewal process?
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2438
DEPUTY SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS: Mr President, we will shortly be consulting Members of this Council, through the Lands and Works Panel, on a package of measures aimed at facilitating urban renewal and redevelopment.
I do not want to pre-empt the final decision on the actual package and the consultation by giving details today, but I can say that the package will be a comprehensive one. The main features are an expanded role for the Land Development Corporation as a primary agent of urban renewal and facilitator of private sector projects, more emphasis on the relocation of both residents and businesses affected by redevelopment projects and some changes to the system of ex gratia allowances for such persons. There are also some new initiatives in the areas of owner participation and in making projects viable, which in normal circumstances would not be so.
MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): Mr President, I would like to thank the Deputy Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands for his reply. The reply he just gave is probably the only one delivered in this session of the Council which is even shorter than the question. It is indeed very disappointing that we are only given such a reply after waiting for more than three years. Given the fact that the review of the urban renewal policy has been delayed for several years and as the Deputy Secretary has said just now that the panel concerned would be consulted shortly, may I ask exactly at what time will this be done and whether he can give us a specific date. Owing to the delay on the part of the Government, many redevelopment projects, including those endorsed by the Town Planning Board such as the redevelopment project at "Tsuen Wan Seven Streets", have been delayed for several years. Does the Government have any measures to ensure that the living environment of residents affected by the redevelopment projects will not continue to decline as a result of the delay in these projects?
PRESIDENT: There are two questions there, Mr CHAN. Answer the first question first, Deputy Secretary.
DEPUTY SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS (in Cantonese): Mr President, on the question of redeveloping old districts in Hong Kong, as the areas covered by old districts are extensive, the problems involved are complicated, and the responsible organizations involved in such redevelopment are many, including bodies like the Land Development Policy Committee and the Housing Society, so when discussing these complicated problems, issues like land planning and housing policies have to be considered. Therefore, I admit that the time spent on this review is longer than expected. But, we will provide Members with the result of the review for their discussion as soon as possible.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2439 PRESIDENT: We will come to your second supplementary if there is time, Mr CHAN.
MR TAM YIU-CHUNG (in Cantonese): Mr President, may I ask if we understand rightly by saying that the Land Development Corporation has autonomy over the urban renewal projects, so it is not obliged to wait for the implementation of new measures subsequent to the Government's review?
PRESIDENT: I am sorry, is that the question, Mr TAM?
MR TAM YIU-CHUNG: Yes.
DEPUTY SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS (in Cantonese): Mr President, if I understand the question correctly, the answer is positive. The Land Development Corporation certainly has autonomy in undertaking redevelopment projects. In this connection, the review that we are currently conducting has not delayed the progress of the redevelopment projects being undertaken or planned to be undertaken by the Land Development Corporation. We hope that the new proposals will help the Land Development Corporation to carry out their urban renewal projects in a faster and better way.
MR JAMES TO (in Cantonese): Mr President, this matter was debated during the 1991-92 session of the Legislative Council. It is the 1994-95 session now and the Deputy Secretary has attributed the delay to the complexity of the matter. But I believe that no matter how complicated a policy is, after four or five years' time and having been reproved in the last session, any government which is determined to straighten things out should have been able to settle the matter by now. The progress of the Government's review gives us the impression that it is neither sincere nor conscientious in the matter. The Deputy Secretary said just now that the Legislative Council would be consulted shortly. I would like to follow up Mr Albert CHAN's question. That is, when will the consultation take place? On completion of the consultation process, how will the Government implement the project regarding such matters as relevant legislations, policy or resources? Does the Government have a timetable or is it simply sitting idly without any plans in mind?
DEPUTY SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS (in Cantonese): Mr President, I have, in fact, responded to the question of time just now when I replied to Mr Albert CHAN's question. We also like to see the early completion of this review but as it really involves matters which are very complicated, a certain period of time is therefore required before it can be
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completed. We will complete this review as soon as possible, but I cannot specify the exact time now. We will submit the relevant proposals to this Council as soon as possible for Members' discussion. I believe we can set a timetable for the necessary work after the consultation process.
MR RONALD ARCULLI: Mr President, from the written answer given by the Deputy Secretary, and indeed his answers to some oral supplementaries, it seems that the package is ready for consultation with the relevant Legislative Council panel today. If the package is not ready, will the Deputy Secretary tell us it is not ready? But if it is ready, could he please explain why he did not take the initiative of contacting the panel and fixing a date for that particular consultation process?
DEPUTY SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS: Mr President, the proposals I have outlined in my main answer are broad outline proposals. Under each of the proposals, there will be many details and mechanisms to be worked out in detail. It is this detail that we are finalizing and also discussing with the various organizations concerned.
PRESIDENT: Not answered, Mr ARCULLI?
MR RONALD ARCULLI: No, Mr President, I would read from the written reply where the Deputy Secretary says, "I do not want to pre-empt that consultation by giving details today." That implies that details are available. But can he confirm that that is incorrect and that details are in fact not yet available?
DEPUTY SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS: Mr President, my actual answer was that I do not want to pre-empt the final decision on the actual package and the consultation by giving details today. The details, I can confirm, are not yet finalized.
MR CHIM PUI-CHUNG (in Cantonese): Mr President, the Deputy Secretary made a reference in his reply to the expanded role of the Land Development Corporation as a primary agent of urban renewal. We know that the Land Development Corporation has often mentioned in the press that the Crown Lands Resumption Ordinance (Cap. 124) would be invoked in the acquisition of private properties in many redevelopment projects, but actually this has not been done. Many property owners only agreed to surrender their properties on account of the Land Development Corporation invoking invoked the Ordinance. So, will this situation cause such property owners to suffer losses and subject them to unfair treatment? Mr President, my question is that the Land
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Development Corporation has said that it would invoke the Ordinance in the resumption of land but actually it has not done so. As a matter of fact, this Ordinance has not been invoked since its previous invocation by the Governor in Council in 1992. Has the Land Development Corporation misled property owners?
PRESIDENT: Your supplementary should seek to elucidate the answer. I do not see that question goes to the answer, Mr CHIM. It is quite a different topic you are raising.
MR CHIM PUI-CHUNG (in Cantonese): Mr President, the main question is that the Deputy Secretary mentioned in his reply that the Land Development Corporation would be given more power. But would property owners be misled by the actions of the Corporation? If the Land Development Corporation is not conferred with so much power, I would not have pressed for an answer to this question.
PRESIDENT: I am sorry, that is out of order.
MR JIMMY McGREGOR: Mr President, can the Deputy Secretary say whether the review is principally concerned with policy, procedure and systems? But does it include target areas for redevelopment? Will we be advised of the areas which the Government has in mind for redevelopment?
DEPUTY SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS: Mr President, the review will concern, as the Honourable Member said, with procedures and policies. It will not involve such detail as the actual areas or sites that will need to be redeveloped. We will leave the responsible organizations, for example, the Land Development Corporation, to determine on the basis of feasibility of each site.
MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): Mr President, as it will take some time to go through the consultation process and subsequently to frame new policies, many projects, including redevelopment projects under the charge of the Housing Society, are in the meantime being indefinitely delayed as a result of the Government's review, despite the fact that the projects have already been endorsed by the Town Planning Board. Some of the projects have even been delayed for more than two years. May I ask what new measures will the Government take in this regard to ensure that these projects will not be delayed any longer, and that the living environment of residents in the affected districts will not thus get worse with time? The "Tsuen Wan Seven Streets" case is a very good example.
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DEPUTY SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS (in Cantonese): Mr President, just now when I replied to the question raised by another Member, I have mentioned that the projects undertaken by the Land Development Corporation or the Housing Society were being carried out at full speed and should not be affected by this review. Of course, not every project can progress smoothly. Some will be smoother than others. But the Government has tried its best to assist the relevant institutions, such as the Housing Society, in their work.
PRESIDENT: Not answered, Mr CHAN?
MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): Mr President, the Deputy Secretary has not answered my question. He said the projects should not be affected by the present review, but the Housing Society has stated clearly in its reply to our enquiry that the progress of current redevelopment projects was affected by the Government's review, which had caused temporary delay to the projects so that no redevelopment work had actually been carried out. Therefore, the situation in which projects being delayed, as the Deputy Secretary just denied, has actually arisen. My question is whether the Government will take any measures at this stage to ensure that redevelopment projects which have already been endorsed by the Town Planning Board will not be further delayed due to this review?
DEPUTY SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS (in Cantonese): Mr President, as far as I know, the Housing Society is proceeding with the redevelopment work at "Tsuen Wan Seven Streets". Of course, the project will take time because problems such as the acquisition of properties and the settlement of residents have to be dealt with. These problems have also caused financial difficulties for the Society in its execution of the project. This is what I know of the situation. At present, the Housing Society is endeavouring to proceed with the project as soon as possible. Therefore, this project has nothing to do with our present review. As what I have said earlier on, the success of this review will help to speed up the progress of redevelopment projects and extend their scale. Those projects under way, including the one for "Tsuen Wan Seven Streets", should not be affected.
Franchised Business Operations Promoted by Hong Kong Productivity Council
4. MR HUANG CHEN-YA asked (in Cantonese): In 1992, a team of staff in the Business Management Service Unit of the Hong Kong Productivity Council (HKPC) were assigned special responsibilities for promoting franchised business operations. A laundry operated under such mode of operation, which was one of the companies widely promoted by the HKPC, had been involved in
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2443 commercial disputes. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council whether:
(a) the HKPC has conducted a review of the promotion of the laundry concerned; and
(b) the termination of the consultancy service by the HKPC to promote franchised business operations was a result of the involvement of the above mentioned laundry in commercial disputes; if not, what were the reasons for the termination of the service?
SECRETARY FOR TRADE AND INDUSTRY (in Cantonese): Mr President, in 1992 and 1993, the Hong Kong Productivity Council organised a programme of events to familiarise the business community with the general concept of franchising, including two study missions to the International Franchise Expo in the United States, and two exhibitions. The Council did not specifically promote any particular company or operation, although examples were used to illustrate the concept. It follows, therefore, that the Council has not conducted the sort of review referred to in part (a) of the Honourable Member's question.
The Hong Kong Franchising Association, which was formed by the Hong Kong General Chamber of Commerce in 1992, played an increasingly active role in promoting the franchising concept, and organised a third exhibition in 1993. The Productivity Council concluded that the Association was better placed to continue promotional work in connection with the franchising concept, and the Council therefore decided to cease its active involvement in 1993. This decision was not taken for the reason set out in part (b) of the Honourable Member's question.
DR HUANG CHEN-YA (in Cantonese): Mr President, the Hong Kong Productivity Council (HKPC) denied that investors suffered losses because it had used the company in question as an example and made an inappropriate recommendation. It also claimed that since the Hong Kong General Chamber of Commerce (HKGCC) was conducting such kind of work, it was no longer necessary for the HKPC to be actively involved. Does it mean that whenever HKGCC takes up some work involving the commercial sector, HKPC will not be required to take up any work in that area? Were there similar cases in the past? It this account true to the fact? Will the Government look into the case? Why did not the HKPC conduct a review on the problems arising from the unduly quoted example, so that any possible loopholes in the legislations for and the control of franchised business in Hong Kong can be identified? Since the HKPC has not reviewed this case, will the Government look into the matter?
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SECRETARY FOR TRADE AND INDUSTRY (in Cantonese): Mr President, I would try my best to answer this question because it embodies many points. In fact, the operation of HKPC, albeit a statutory body with a Governor-appointed Chairman, is entirely independent of the Government. The Government only monitors the general direction of its policy and its annual financial estimates because it receives subsidies from the Government. Therefore, the information given in my reply are also provided by HKPC. Of course, we have also been looking at some facts. Dr HUANG asked why HKPC decided not to be involved in an area where it was found that similar promotion work was being undertaken by the HKGCC, and whether HKPC would step aside to let HKGCC do the work should a similar situation arise in the future. I cannot answer these questions at the moment because I do not know whether HKPC will do so again until such a situation arises. As regards whether there have been similar precedents, I have no idea either. If Dr HUANG wants to have a reply, I can request HKPC to provide me with the relevant information, then I will give Dr HUANG a written reply. (Annex I)
As regards the case of individual companies which participated in the promotion activities of HKPC and were later found to be operating improperly or conducting illegal activities, I want to clarify the situation. The company concerned has only sponsored two exhibitions and participated in a visiting delegation overseas. It has only acted as a sponsor and participant. For instance, it has hired a booth as a participant in an exhibition held in Hong Kong. Therefore, it is impossible for HKPC to conduct any review or investigation over the case because HKPC has actually not been involved in the operation of this company.
As for the broader scope of whether the Government finds it necessary to enact any legislation to control these franchising activities, I would like to repeat the reply given by my colleague, the Secretary for Financial Services, to a similar question raised by Dr HUANG on 14 December 1994. Since I have only the English version in hand, may I be allowed to switch to English at this juncture of my reply.
SECRETARY FOR TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Mr President, the Secretary for Financial Services said, in reply to Dr HUANG, in December last year that "franchises generally involve the kind of arm's length negotiation between two parties that the Government has traditionally not interfered with. In the absence of fraud, the relationship between franchisers and franchisees would be subject to the rights and remedies which exist under contract law. The Government sees no evidence that franchisees require legal protection in addition to that afforded generally to other contractors. In the light of the foregoing, the Administration has no plan to introduce specific legislation to govern or regulate the franchise mode of doing business."
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MR LEE CHEUK-YAN (in Cantonese): Mr President, having listened to the Secretary's reply just now, I am afraid that he is not aware of many facts. That is why he said that a review was not needed. When I discussed the matter with the victims of "American Launderland", they told me clearly that they participated in the scheme because they placed their trust in HKPC. Is the Secretary aware of another fact when he said that HKPC had not taken part in the business operation of "American Launderland"? It appeared to be so, but one of the consultants of HKPC later became a director of "American Launderland". Have there been any illegal or improper acts involved? I think that the Government should review the matter. Does the Secretary know that this consultant is responsible for promoting the "franchised" mode of operation? If the Secretary does not know this, I hope that he look into the matter with HKPC and give this Council a report, in order to ascertain whether illegal acts were involved. Does the Secretary know the result of the investigation conducted by the Commercial Crimes Bureau on "American Launderland"?
SECRETARY FOR TRADE AND INDUSTRY (in Cantonese): Mr President, regarding the activities and operation of the company referred to by Mr LEE, as I have quoted the Secretary for Financial Services' reply in December last year, if there were illegal acts, the operators, that is the franchisees, should report to the Police who would investigate whether the acts were illegal. If they were, the Police would proceed with prosecution.
My reply to the last question raised by Mr LEE is very simple. I do not have any information or findings in hand regarding the investigation conducted by the Police. But, I can inquire of the Police on behalf of Mr LEE and if an answer is received from the Police, I will give Mr LEE a written reply. (Annex II)
As regards the point that someone being the employee or consultant of HKPC might have joined this particular company after taking part in the relevant promotion activities, I am more or less aware of the situation. However, HKPC has assured me that there were no improper or illegal acts involved. If there have been such acts, I believe it should be dealt with by HKPC through an internal investigation. If it is proved that no improper or illegal acts were involved, the case should then be closed. If HKPC finds that there have been illegal acts, it should report to the Police who would then handle the case.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2446 Border Crossing Points and Procedures
5. MR JAMES TIEN asked: According to a research report produced by the Transport Branch, it is estimated that the number of vehicle trips made every day via the border crossing points between Hong Kong and China will exceed 50 000 by the year 2000. Even if the three crossing points at Lok Ma Chau, Man Kam To and Sha Tau Kok are open 24 hours daily, they will still be unable to cope with the soaring traffic volume arising from the ever increasing demand for cross-border transport facilities as a result of the developments in the industrial and commercial sectors in the territory. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council whether:
(a) it will consider opening new border crossing points; if so, what progress has been made in the study on opening new border crossing points and the construction of associated road networks; and
(b) it has considered introducing joint checks by various concerned departments and other measures which will further streamline the border-crossing procedures?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT: Mr President,
(a) May I first clarify that the Administration has not produced or published any research report on cross-border traffic. However, we do keep statistics and have estimated the growth trend. Our records show that in 1994 an average of 22 304 vehicles crossed the border each day using the three crossing points at Lok Ma Chau, Man Kam To and Sha Tau Kok. According to our projections, the combined throughput could rise to about 34 000 vehicle trips a day by the end of 1997 and to 46 000 by the year 2000. The existing crossing points should be able to cope with this demand up to 1997.
Lok Ma Chau is now the busiest crossing point and we have the capacity there to increase the number of kiosks. At present, only nine of the 14 processing kiosks are in use and we have the space there for further expansion and providing up to 24 kiosks. In addition, more kiosks can be opened round the clock at this check point if traffic volumes justify this. It is also important to note that road access to the border will be greatly improved with the completion of the dual lane Route 3 (Country Park Section) in 1998.
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The need to provide additional border crossing points as well as new access roads are being studied in the context of the Territorial Development Strategy review. In this respect, the recently established Infrastructure Co ordinating Committee will provide an excellent forum for the discussion of strategic plans with Chinese representatives, so as to ensure that future processing capacity on both sides of the border can match rising demand.
Apart from road access, Honourable Members are aware that, as announced in the Railway Development Strategy, we are also planning the construction of a new railway line in northwest New Territories from the border to the urban area for completion by the year 2001. This will enhance the carriage of freight containers by rail directly into the Kwai Chung container port and will thus relieve the road system and pressure at the border crossing points. The Kowloon-Canton Railway Croporation (KCRC) has already been invited to submit proposals for building and operating this railway.
(b) The present operating procedures and the physical layout of the border crossing points does not permit parallel checking by Immigration and Customs Officers, and redesign of the crossing points would be difficult and disruptive given the physical constraints of the sites. We do however keep under constant review measures to streamline border crossing procedures. For example, the Immigration Department will install optical character readers in September 1995 at the three crossing points to speed up the checking of drivers' identity papers.
MR JAMES TIEN: In the Secretary's reply, he said that the existing crossing points will be able to cope with demand up to 1997. Could the Secretary please confirm that if Lok Ma Chau, which currently has nine kiosks open, could be brought up to 24 kiosks, it would be able to raise the traffic per day to 34 000 as the figure indicated for 1997, or would it go up to 46 000, thereby we do not have to worry up to the year 2000? And secondly ......
PRESIDENT: One question please, Mr TIEN.
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT: Mr President, the short answer to the Honourable Member's question is yes. Based on our present traffic projections, we are fairly confident that we can cope with demand up to 1997. The important point, Mr President, is that we will constantly review the demand and update our traffic projections and if it is necessary we will plan ahead to ensure that we have the capacity to meet demand.
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MRS MIRIAM LAU (in Cantonese): Mr President, the Ling Ding Sea Bridge project being actively undertaken by the Zhuhai municipality will provide us with another important crossing point for cross-border traffic between China and Hong Kong. This project will certainly have a great impact on Hong Kong's road system, particularly in the Tuen Mun District. Can the Secretary for Transport inform this Council how the Administration intends to co-ordinate with the Chinese side in regard to this project which will have an impact on Hong Kong?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT: Mr President, the proposals from the Zhuhai authorities are fairly initial at the present stage. In fact just over the weekend, I, together with my colleague, the Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands, visited Zhuhai and Shenzhen and the authorities there updated us with their proposals. If in fact the proposals for the bridge go ahead, this may necessitate an additional landing point on our side of the territory. The details of this will be discussed at the Infrastructure Co-ordinating Committee at a later stage. In the meantime, as part of the Territorial Development Strategy review, we are looking at new road alignments and there is a tentative alignment along the coast which is known as Route Y, but there is no firm date for its implementation.
MR TIK CHI-YUEN (in Cantonese): I believe the Secretary for Transport is aware of the fact that serious noise problems have arisen in Tai Po and the Northern Territory ever since the Lok Ma Chau border-crossing point was opened for 24 hours a day. May I ask whether the Administration has considered the consequences of increased traffic flow, such as the levels of noise pollution and environmental pollution, on residents' daily living before looking when it looked into the further extension of services or operation hours at border crossing points? Further, if such services or operation hours are to be extended, can the Government ensure that prior arrangements will be made to alleviate any disturbances which may be caused to the public?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT: Mr President, the 24-hour facility at Lok Ma Chau commenced in early November last year. At present, two kiosks are open round the clock. Since the opening of late-hour crossing facilities, some 1 300 goods vehicles use this facility every day at present. The Honourable TIK Chi-yuen of course has raised the question of noise problems along Tolo Harbour. Before the border was open 24 hours, certain noise mitigation measures had been implemented. These included the laying of noise reduction friction on the road surface near Choi Yuen Estate; the installation of noise barriers on the flyover near the same estate; the installation of noise barriers along San Shan Road; and similarly, noise barriers along the section of the New Territories Circular Road near Chuk Yuen Estate.
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Following comments from the Honourable Member, the Administration has engaged consultants to consider the noise problem again and one of the immediate measures that will be implemented is to reduce the speed limit and we think that this will reduce noise. The consultants are continuing to examine this problem and obviously if solutions are recommended we will follow these up.
MR LEE WING-TAT (in Cantonese): Mr President, one of the objectives of providing round the clock service at Lok Ma Chau is to relieve lorry drivers from rushing all at once to the border-crossing point before closing time, with the indirect effect that vehicular traffic to and from container terminals can be spaced out more evenly. But as the Secretary for Transport has just said, after a few months' operation, it was observed that there were only 1 000 container trucks, about 5% of the total number, were using the crossing facilities at night. Can the Secretary for Transport inform this Council whether the Administration has ways to encourage container truck drivers to deliver and collect goods at night so as to alleviate the traffic jam at container terminals? Can any precautionary measures be taken before May and June, the rainy season when traffic congestion will become worse?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT: Mr President, there are of course ongoing dialogues with the lorry drivers and in fact following the problems last year, tripartite meetings have been set up among the Hong Kong and Shenzhen and cross-border authorities, as well as with the goods vehicle drivers. We certainly will encourage them to spread the time at which they cross the border, but at the end of the day, the drivers must themselves of course decide when they want to actually take out the vehicles on the roads. But certainly the number of vehicles using the border crossing points at night has increased and we shall continue to encourage this.
MR WONG WAI-YIN (in Cantonese): Mr President, in the first paragraph of his reply, the Secretary for Transport said that the existing facilities at the crossing points would be able to cope with the demand up to 1997. But the fact is that there are "long queues" of container trucks at the border crossing points during rush hours, and it takes a long time before the trucks can get through the border. As a matter of fact, the routine "truck queues" have become so long that other road users are affected. Is the Secretary happy with this routine length of the "truck queues"? If not, are there any ways to shorten the time taken by these trucks to cross the border, hence the length of the "queues", so as to reduce the inconvenience caused to other vehicles?
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SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT: Mr President, the Honourable WONG Wai-yin is right. At times there are long queues and sometimes one lane of the carriageway is of course taken up by vehicles which are waiting to cross the border. Insofar as our capacity is concerned, this is not one-sided because at the end of the day, we need the understanding and the co-operation of the Chinese side because the arrangements have got to be co ordinated. In the meantime, we have increased the holding areas of various waiting areas at all three border crossing points and we shall try to further make improvements.
MR ALFRED TSO (in Cantonese): The Hong Kong Government has all along been saying that either Lok Ma Chau or Lo Wu would be made the connecting point for the new North west Railway, but the Shenzhen Municipality is of the view that both places are not ideal for the purpose. A couple of days ago, the Secretary for Transport visited the counties and municipalities concerned in China, and the media reported that Shenzhen and Hong Kong seemed to have different views regarding the connecting point for the North-west Railway and the proposed new road network, as well as on the matter of priority. Can the Secretary for Transport inform this Council of the following matters? Firstly, as the Kowloon-Canton Railway Corporation has been designated by the Government to study the development plan for the North-west Railway, will the Government allow the Corporation greater flexibility in handling the matter of the connecting point rather than directing that either Lo Wu or Huanggang check point should be named the point of connection with the Chinese railway network? Secondly, are there any effective measures by which a compromised views point can be reached as soon as possible between the Hong Kong Government and the relevant county and municipal governments from the Chinese side?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT: Mr President, as far as the KCRC is concerned, the Administration has issued them with a project brief asking them to make firm proposals for the development of the northwest railway corridor and certainly the Corporation will be given maximum flexibility, and indeed, the Corporation also discussed their proposals with their Chinese counterparts. Insofar as our plans are concerned, we envisage that Lo Wu should continue to be the main crossing point for the through train from China for both rail and passengers. The capacity for container units is there because in recent years it has fallen somewhat and more and more of the goods are being transported by land. And indeed the Chinese plans for their own railway extensions envisage through trains through Lo Wu.
Insofar as Lok Ma Chau is concerned, our proposals are simply to provide for an additional passenger terminal and I do not think this in any way contradicts proposals on the Chinese side. As I mentioned earlier, we have now got the Infrastructure Co-ordinating Committee and we can look at the logistical arrangements in that forum.
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MR JAMES TIEN: The new Northwest New Territories Railway that KCRC has been invited to submit proposals on will be completed in the year 2001. Could the Secretary please inform us when it is completed in the year 2001, how much equivalent vehicle traffic it would be equal to at that time, thus reducing the traffic of the Lok Ma Chau crossing?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT: Mr President, I believe that based on the forecast volume of traffic from China, the freight traffic using the port rail, in the year 2001 we can accommodate 1 450 TEUs — or 20-foot Equivalent Units as the technical term is known — and the capacity will rise to about 2 500 units by the year 2006.
Drug Abuse in Pillar Point Vietnamese Refugee Centre
6. MR WONG WAI-YIN asked (in Cantonese): It is reported that there is a serious problem of drug abuse in the Pillar Point Open Detention Camp. Will the Government inform this Council:
(a) of the total number of detainees addicted to drugs in the Camp;
(b) what measures the police are taking to combat the drug trafficking and drug abuse problems in the Camp; and
(c) whether there is any effect on the chances of those detainees who are addicted to drugs resettling overseas; if so, what measures the Government will adopt to solve this problem?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President,
(a) It is estimated that about 450, out of the 1 500 registered population of refugees living in the Pillar Point Vietnamese Refugee Centre, are addicted to drugs.
(b) The Police Force take vigorous enforcement action to combat drug trafficking and drug abuse in Pillar Point, in the same way that they take vigorous enforcement action against drug offenders throughout the territory. This action involves, essentially, the collection of criminal intelligence, raids, arrests and prosecutions. During the last year, the police carried out 44 raids in Pillar Point, and took out 92 prosecutions for drug offences.
(c) Under the Comprehensive Plan of Action (CPA), all refugees will be resettled overseas. The United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) assists refugees secure overseas resettlement. Drug addiction does, of course, affect the acceptability of refugees
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2452
by third countries for overseas resettlement, but it does not make them unresettleable; simply harder to place. In the case of addicted refugees, the UNHCR arranges for their detoxification before departure. At a Technical Meeting convened by the UNHCR in Bangkok in June 1994, the Hong Kong Government appealed to resettlement countries to relax their criteria for accepting these hard-to-place refugees from Hong Kong. Since 1 April 1994, about 300 of these refugees, including their family members, have been resettled overseas from Pillar Point.
MR WONG WAI-YIN (in Cantonese): Mr President, in the first paragraph of the Secretary's reply, it was said that of the around 1 500 registered refugees in the Pillar Point Centre, 450 were addicted to drugs, which was roughly one third of the Centre's population. If we exclude children from the count, the number of addicts would probably come close to half of the registered population, and such a figure is appalling. I do not think the problem can come to this size in a short period. I would like to ask the Secretary how this serious problem could arise. Has it got anything to do with the management of the Centre or the inadequacy of measures adopted to combat drug offences in the Centre?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, no. The ratio of drug addicts in Pillar Point is, as the Honourable Member pointed out, about 30%. This is significantly, very very significantly, in excess of the territory-wide percentage, which is less than 0.5%. There is no real scientific or in-depth way of studying the reasons for such a high concentration of drug addicts at Pillar Point; but we feel that it is probably the result of a combination of social, personal, psychological and possibly even environmental factors. Those who resort to drugs, as I pointed out in my main answer, reduce their chances of resettlement and become more and more frustrated by the lack of progress in their overseas resettlement. As others are accepted for overseas resettlement and then depart and leave Pillar Point, the concentration of those left behind, who are drug addicts, correspondingly increases. As the Honourable Member has pointed out, this is a long standing problem and it is one which we and the UNHCR take very seriously. We are trying to encourage those who are addicted to drugs to get off drugs and to try and encourage them to seek a more viable way of obtaining the resettlement which both they and we want.
MR MAN SAI-CHEONG (in Cantonese): Mr President, two days ago in the Narcotics Summit (Summit on Drugs), the Governor emphasized the importance of anti-drug education. Now apart from dealing with drug trafficking and drug abuse in refugee camps, I want to know whether the Government has actively conducted any anti-drug publicity and education programmes in the VR camps. It not, what are the reasons? Is it because the problem has become so acute that it would be too late or futile to do such work?
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SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, the answer is yes, we have taken the steps that the Honourable Member has pointed out. I think Members are aware that we carry out drug education programmes throughout Hong Kong, and in parallel with these, we have a special programme directed specifically at Vietnamese refugees. The talks, the publicity material and the visits to Pillar Point, all take place in Vietnamese in order to try and make the impact much more effective.
MISS EMILY LAU (in Cantonese): Mr President, I want to know how many drug addicted refugees have already been refused overseas settlement, and how many overseas countries have formally declared that they would not accept drug addicted refugees?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: The answer to both parts of that question, Mr President, is none. These people are refugees and as I pointed out in my main answer, all of them, according to the CPA, will be resettled overseas. I admit that the reality of the situation is that those who have a drug problem are more difficult to resettle, but that does not mean any of them will not be resettled. In fact, there is a slow but steady resettlement from Pillar Point as these refugees seek treatment, become detoxified and become therefore eligible for resettlement.
PRESIDENT: Not answered, Miss LAU?
MISS EMILY LAU: Yes, Mr President. I cannot understand how the Government can come to the conclusion that those refugees with a drug problem have difficulty in being resettled if you do not actually have figures of rejection. Surely these people must have applied and have been rejected, then you come to the conclusion it is more difficult. So, I mean if you do not have those figures, then how can you say they have greater difficulty in being resettled?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: I think that in response to that question, Mr President, the facts are that the reason for our conclusion that these people are more difficult to resettle because they take longer to resettle, that is a fact; it is not an opinion. But equally, it is also a fact that in the last couple of years, approximately 150 refugees who have been detoxified and have been accepted for resettlement. As I said, the pace is slow, slower than we would wish, but it does continue.
PRESIDENT: Yes, Miss LAU, not answered?
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2454
MISS EMILY LAU: Mr President, thank you for your indulgence. I do not understand this business of it taking longer. Why does it take longer? Is it because of the refusal to accept them, then the process takes longer? So can you explain to us why?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: I think, again, Mr President, the answer to that question is that all of these refugees, of whom there are about 1 700 in Hong Kong, have been agreed under the CPA to be resettled. It is up to the resettlement countries to examine those refugees and to decide whom they will and whom they will not take. The resettlement countries have not said that they will not take any of these refugees. The CPA is still extant and all of them will be resettled. The fact is that some of them are simply harder to place and, therefore, take longer to be resettled.
DR TANG SIU-TONG (in Cantonese): Mr President, in paragraph (a) of the main reply, it was said that among the 1 500 registered refugees, about 450 were drug addicted. The figure is appalling. I would like to know that of these 450 persons, how many were addicted before, and how many because addicted after, they entered the camp. Have any of these 450 persons tried to apply for resettlement overseas but were rejected?
PRESIDENT: I think the last part of your question has been answered, Dr TANG.
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: As regards the first part of the question, Mr President, I am afraid I do not have the information as to the exact time that the refugees became addicted. I will endeavour to gather that information and provide a written answer. (Annex III)
MR ALFRED TSO (in Cantonese): Mr President, it was mentioned in the Secretary's reply that among the 1 500 registered refugees, 450 were drug addicted. We know very well that many refugees are not actually living in the Centre, in other words they are living outside the Centre. Therefore the actual percentage figure representing these 450 drug addicts is exceptionally high. I would like to know whether these 450 persons are all males in their prime years; and how many of the 1 500 registered refugees are elderly persons, children or women, so that we may find out the percentage pattern of drug addicts in the Centre. Secondly, in paragraph (c) of the reply, it was said that they would only be detoxified before their departure ......
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2455
PRESIDENT: One question at a time, please, Mr TSO. I have said this more than once this afternoon.
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, I can give a general answer, but I think the Honourable Member wants a specific answer with numbers, which I cannot provide at the moment. I will provide it in writing later. The general answer to his question is that like the age structure of drug addicts in Hong Kong, the drug addicts amongst the refugees registered in Pillar Point are adult male aged between 21 and 50. But I think the Honourable Member wants a detailed breakdown and I will provide that in writing if I may. (Annex IV)
PRESIDENT: I have one more supplementary outstanding.
MR WONG WAI-YIN (in Cantonese): Mr President, in the second paragraph of the Secretary's reply, the last sentence indicated that In 1994, the Police took out 92 prosecutions for drug offences. I would like to ask the Secretary, in these 92 prosecutions, how many refugees were charged for drug trafficking? Do these refugees, who have been charged with the criminal offence of drug trafficking and who may be serving their sentence now in jail, still have the chance of overseas resettlement?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: The number of prosecutions, as I said, was 92 between January 1994 and January 1995. The fact that the refugees might have a prison sentence imposed upon them does, again, obviously, make them harder to resettle. But, once again, it does not rule them out for resettlement. There have been a number of cases of refugees with a prison sentence on their record, who have been resettled.
PRESIDENT: Two more supplementaries, Mr TO and then Mr Alfred TSO.
MR JAMES TO (in Cantonese): Mr President, just now the Secretary cited social, psychological personal, and environmental factors as the reasons for the refugees to become addicted. I cannot think of another reason because he has almost exhausted the list. But it is really a problem to have such a high level of drug addiction. I hope the Government can find out the causes and tackle the problem at the root. I would like to know how many of the 450 drug addicts in Pillar Point have gone through detoxification programmes, and how many have indicated their willingness to go through such programmes?
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2456
PRESIDENT: You have got two questions there again, Mr James TO, and I have been trying to make the point. I will only permit single supplementaries.
MR JAMES TO (in Cantonese): Mr President, I have only asked how many people were willing to go through the detoxification programme and how many had actually gone through that programme. This is a matter of figures.
PRESIDENT: Well, if that is the question.
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, at present about 20 of the 450 refugees at Pillar Point are undergoing detoxification under SARDA or St Stephen Society programmes. In addition to that, about 90 Vietnamese were registered under the Methadone Detoxification Programme.
MR ALFRED TSO (in Cantonese): Mr President, according to informed sources a drug addict needs an average daily expenditure of $200 for his drugs. Now since there are so many drug addicts in the refugee camp and they have to spend so much money on drugs, does the Secretary know where such money comes from? Will they be driven to commit other criminal offences as a result, thus posing a threat to our society?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, there is no indication that the Vietnamese refugees in Pillar Point are involved with either criminal gangs, triad members or any other organized criminal sections of society. As I think the Honourable Member knows, the refugees in Pillar Point are free to work and therefore they have an opportunity to gain money, and therefore to sustain their habit.
WRITTEN ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS
Abuse of 'Ice'
7. MR TIMOTHY HA asked (in Chinese): According to figures released by the Narcotics Bureau of the Police, a total of 123 kilogrammes of 'ice' was seized by the Police and the Customs and Excise Department last year, which was the highest on record. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
(a) whether there are any signs indicating that the abuse of 'ice' has become a new trend among drug addicts;
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2457
(b) of the quantity of 'ice' seized by the Police and the Customs and Excise Department in each of the past three years; and
(c) of the estimated numbers of adults and youngsters abusing 'ice' habitually in each of the past three years; and what measures are being taken by the Government to tackle the problem?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President,
(a) There is no evidence to suggest that "Ice" (Methylamphetamine) has become a new trend among drug abusers. The majority of the "Ice" seized in 1994 were destined for neighbouring countries in Southeast Asia.
(b) Seizures of "Ice" by the police and the Customs and Excise Department for the past three years are:
1992 1993 1994
Police 18.6 kg 1.8 kg 123 kg Customs 0.18 kg 0.01 kg 0.001 kg
(c) Separate figures on the number of persons reported to be abusing "Ice" are not available as "Ice" is grouped together with other amphetamines for statistical purposes. The numbers of persons reported to be abusing amphetamines over the past three years are:
1992 1993 1994
Reported persons aged under 21 abusing amphetamines
18 33 28
(% of reported persons under 21) (1.2%) (1.3%) (0.8%)
Reported persons aged 21 and above abusing amphetamines
(% of reported persons aged 21 and above)
26 44 50 (0.2%) (0.3%) (0.4%)
The number of abusers of amphetamines (with which "Ice" is classified) has remained small.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2458 The Government tackles the problem of drug abuse by a multi-faceted approach:
- through vigorous law enforcement we interdict the smuggling of drugs into Hong Kong, and detect and prosecute offenders so as to clamp down on the illegal supply of drugs into Hong Kong;
- we provide a wide range of both mandatory and voluntary programmes for the treatment and rehabilitation of drug abusers; and
- through preventive education and publicity we aim to promote a healthy lifestyle, especially among young people, and encourage them to resist the temptation to take drugs.
Emission Standards for Private Cars
8. MR LAU WONG-FAT asked (in Chinese): Regarding the problem of emission of exhaust gas from private cars, will the Government inform this Council:
(a) of the emission standard currently in force for private cars; and
(b) whether the relevant department requires that private cars over six years old must meet the emission standard in the annual inspection of such vehicles before approving the renewal of licences; if not, whether the Government will consider introducing such an requirement?
SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS: Mr President,
(a) All vehicles running on the road, including private cars, are required under the Road Traffic (Construction and Maintenance of Vehicles) Regulations to meet a smoke emission standard of 60 Hartridge Smoke Unit (HSU).
For new cars, emission standards are set out in the Air Pollution Control (Vehicle Design Standards) (Emission) Regulations. These standards are as stringent as those adopted in Europe, the United States and Japan and all private cars have been required to meet these standards before acceptance for first registration in Hong Kong since 1992. More stringent emission standards for new vehicles are proposed from April 1995.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2459
(b) Private cars over six years old are required to meet a smoke emission standard of 60 HSU at their annual inspection before they can have their licences renewed by the Transport Department.
Masonry and Tiles Falling off External Walls
9. MS EMILY LAU asked (in Chinese): As the falling of masonry and tiles off the external walls of some private and government buildings threatens the safety of pedestrians, will the Government inform this Council:
(a) how many pedestrians were killed or injured in the past three years as a result of masonry and tiles falling off the external walls of buildings;
(b) how it is to be assessed who is responsible in the event of falling masonry and tiles causing casualties or damages to property and whether any criminal charge can be preferred in such accidents;
(c) whether there is any mechanism to monitor and check the safety of buildings whose external walls are covered with tiles; and whether there are any measures to prevent the occurrence of such accidents; and
(d) whether it will consider prohibiting the laying of tiles on the external walls of buildings?
SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS: Mr President, the answers to the four parts of this question are as follows:
(a) No statistics regarding private buildings are kept. As regards government buildings, no pedestrians were killed or injured as a result of masonry and tiles falling off the external walls in the past three years.
(b) Generally, the police and/or the Buildings Department are responsible for investigating cases of falling masonry or tiles which result in death or injury.
Maintenance of buildings is ordinarily the responsibility of the owner. Where an owners' corporation exists, it has a statutory duty to "maintain the common parts ..... in good and serviceable repair and clean condition" under the Building Management Ordinance.
As regards criminal liability, if any, for allowing masonry or tiles to fall off the external walls of buildings, section 4B(1) and 4B(2) of the Summary Offences Ordinance provide:
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2460
(i) If anything is dropped or allowed to fall from any building to the danger or injury of any person in or near a public place, the person who drops that thing or allows it to fall commits an offence and is liable to a fine of $10,000 and imprisonment for six months.
(ii) If anything is dropped or allowed to fall from any building in the course of construction, repair or decoration of the building or part thereof, to the danger or injury of any person in or near a public place, the principal contractor on the site and the contractor carrying out the construction, repair or decoration commits an offence and is liable to a fine of $50,000 and imprisonment for one year.
If the tiles or masonry fall off by accident, there is no criminal offence.
(c) Under section 26 of the Buildings Ordinance, an owner of a dangerous or potentially dangerous building will be ordered to carry out remedial works. If he fails to do so, the Buildings Department will carry out the works at his expense. Also, under section 26A of the said Ordinance where on inspection the Building Authority identifies any dilapidation or defect in a building, the owner will be ordered to investigate and repair. In case of any default of such order, the Buildings Department will carry out the repair at the owner's expense. Loose tiling or masonry falls within these provisions.
Starting from 1 March 1995, prosecution of offenders under the Buildings Ordinance has been stepped up. It is hoped that this will have a greater deterrent effect and hence, better protect the public from dangerous building works, including loose tiling or masonry.
Apart from taking enforcement action, the Buildings Department's publicity efforts constantly stress that building maintenance is the responsibility of the owners. It is now preparing a leaflet on "Detection of External Wall Defects" which will be available for distribution to the public in the later part of 1995.
(d) At this stage, the control of the laying of tiles on the external walls of buildings is adequate. The Administration has no plan to prohibit the use of such tiles.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2461 Government Rentals Paid by Shek O Tenants
10. MR JIMMY McGREGOR asked: Bearing in mind the need for all tenants on government land paying rental to the Government to be treated fairly, will the Government inform this Council why some tenants in the Shek O Village area, such as those on Site No. 466 and Site No. 400/402, are paying very substantial rentals to the Government with over 100% increases since 1994, while other tenants in the same Shek O Village area, such as those on Site Nos. 410, 784, 787, 816, 817 and 856 on which restaurants and shops are located, apparently are paying no government rentals at all?
SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS: Mr President, structures on Site Nos. 410, 784, 787, 816, 817 and 856 in Shek O are squatter structures built on government land. They are not covered by any government licence or tenancy agreement. Therefore, no rent is charged.
Site Nos. 466 and 400/402 were covered by Crown Land Licences issued in the early 1980s. In 1984, in accordance with government policy, these licences were converted to short-term tenancies. Full market rental has been payable since then. The rentals are revised every three years and the last review for these tenancies was on 1 January 1995. Should the tenants disagree with the new rental, appeals may be made to the Director of Lands.
Driving Offence Points System
11. MR HENRY TANG asked (in Chinese): With regard to the Driving Offence Points System which was introduced in August 1984, will the Government inform this Council:
(a) whether the Scheme has achieved its objectives of improving road safety as well as deterring frequent offenders of traffic regulations so as to raise their driving standard and reduce accident-induced casualties;
(b) of the total number of drivers who were disqualified from holding a driving licence for three months after incurring 15 penalty points in the past two years; of this number, how many were disqualified for another six months for committing a further offence; and
(c) what other measures — apart from putting out posters and Announcements of Public Interest (APIs) when the system was first introduced — have been taken by the Government to arouse the awareness of drivers and to make them understand clearly the number of points incurred in respect of the 14 categories of offences which directly affect road safety?
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2462 SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT: Mr President,
(a) Since the Driving Offence Points System was introduced in 1984, there has been a marked decline in the number of traffic accidents, notwithstanding the significant increase in the numbers of vehicles over the same period. For example, there were 4 968 serious and fatal accidents in 1984, compared with 3 558 in 1994. This declining trend is due to a number of factors, but we believe that the Driving Offence Points System has also played its part in improving road safety.
(b) In the past two years, 9 721 drivers were disqualified from holding a driving licence for three months, and 1 419 drivers were disqualified for six months under the Road Traffic (Driving-Offence Points) Ordinance.
(c) The Transport Department publishes a booklet on "How the Driving-Offence Points System Affects You". This is available free of charge from government publications outlets as well as from the Transport Department licensing offices. The booklet describes the objectives of the scheme, the offences which incur penalty points, and the method of calculation. When a motorist has incurred eight penalty points, a warning letter is issued to him by the Transport Department.
Expansion of Recycling Projects
12. MR ERIC LI asked (in Chinese): The waste paper recycling projects have been implemented by the Government for some time. According to experience gained in foreign countries in the recycling of waste materials, glass ware and plastic products are included in addition to waste paper. In this regard, will the Government inform this Council whether the recycling projects will be expanded to include glass and plastic products; if so, when these projects will be implemented, how the waste materials will be collected, and what the estimated administration cost will be, if not, why not?
SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS: Mr President, at present, we have no plans to extend the waste paper recycling projects in government departments to include glass and plastic products because waste paper is the major type of waste arising from government offices.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2463
However, at present over 90% of locally filled glass beverage bottles are recovered for reuse through deposit refund schemes and about 40% of mainly pre-consumption plastic wastes are recovered for recycling.
As regards recycling generally, the Administration has commissioned a Waste Reduction Study to examine the current levels of waste generation and collection patterns, and to identify measures to reduce waste production and increase reuse and recovery.
Polling Stations
13. MISS EMILY LAU asked (in Chinese): According to recently published information on polling stations for the Municipal Council elections in March this year, some of the polling stations designated for certain districts in the 1994 district board elections have been cancelled. However, there are no replacement polling stations designated for the districts concerned. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
(a) of the total number of polling stations cancelled, their respective locations and the reasons for cancellation of the respective polling stations;
(b) of the reasons for not designating any replacement polling stations for the districts concerned;
(c) whether a similar situation will occur in the 1995 Legislative Council election;
(d) whether it has any plans for opening more polling stations in future elections to facilitate voting, which will help to boost the turn-out rate of voters; and
(e) whether any consideration will be given to setting up mobile polling stations when the need arises?
SECRETARY FOR CONSTITUTIONAL AFFAIRS: Mr President,
(a) After the September 1994 District Board elections, the Registration and Electoral Office (REO) reviewed the designation of the polling stations used in the elections, taking into account the views and
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2464
comments of candidates, returning officers and the public. It was found that the locations and facilities of some of these polling stations were unsatisfactory. As a result, 27 polling stations have been replaced, five added and seven merged with other polling stations. There are now a total of 440 polling stations in the territory. The Annex sets out the details of the seven polling stations merged with others and the reasons for the merger.
(b) Before a polling station is cancelled, the REO will first consider the availability of a suitable replacement. Only where there is no suitable alternative would it consider merger with another neighbouring polling station. Various factors are taken into account in the designation of a polling station, including the geographical spread, physical feature, population distribution and transport facilities available in the area. An ideal polling station should be centrally located in the area, generally known to local residents and easily accessible. The polling station should be sufficiently spacious to cope with the size of the electorate. Furthermore, the station should not, as far as possible, be closely connected with any candidate.
(c) To prepare for the September Legislative Council elections, the REO will similarly conduct a review of the polling stations after the Municipal Council elections. Any views and suggestions on the designation of polling stations will be welcome.
(d) The Boundary and Election Commission (BEC) has asked the REO to identify, where circumstances warrant and suitable sites are available, more polling stations for the September Legislative Council elections. The aim is to provide electors with more convenience where the expenditure of public funds is justified.
(e) Where circumstances so require and permit, the REO will consider using temporary structures as polling stations, for example, setting up container structures in an open space for polling. As regards mobile polling facilities, they are fraught with serious practical difficulties, not least of which are the security considerations involved. The BEC has no plan for mobile polling stations.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2465 Annex
Polling station
District
Original polling station
designated after
merger Reasons for merger
Kwun Tong 1. Kwun Tong Methodist
Kindergarten,
Garden Estate
Tsuen Wan 2. BTCFS Yeung Yat Lam Memorial
School, Lei Muk
Shue Estate
Tuen Mun 3. Corridor of Oi Yung House Shopping
Arcade, Yau Oi
Estate
Yuen Long 4. Pak U Middle School (old site),
Hung Shui Kiu
Kwun Tong
Government
Primary School, Ngau Tau Kok Road
Lei Muk Shue
Community Hall, Lei Muk Shue Estate Estate.
Islamic Primary School, Yau Oi
Estate
Yau Kung School, Ha Tsuen
The original polling station is unsuitable as it is too small to cope with 9 000 electors, and access by the aged and the handicapped is inconvenient. The Kwun Tong Government Primary School, the polling station for another District Board Constituency (DBC), is in the proximity across Ngau Tau Kok Road. Its floor area is sufficiently large to cope with the size of the electorate after the merger.
The school will be demolished in the redevelopment programme of Lei Muk Shue The Polling station for the neigbouring DBC at the Community Hall is situated nearby in the same housing estate. Its floor area is sufficiently large to cope with the size of the electorate after the merger.
Experience in the Spetember DB elections reveals that the polling station at the Corridor of the Shopping Arcade was unsatisfactory. The polling station for the neigbouring DBC at Islamic Primary School is situated nearby within the same housing estate. Its floor area is sufficiently large to cope with the size of the electorate after the merger.
Pak U Middle School is to be redeveloped and cannot be used as polling station. No suitable alternative can be located in the vicinity. The 900 electors originally assigned to that polling station have thus been transferred to Yau Kung School, Ha Tsuen, another polling station in the same DBC.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2466
Annex
Polling station
District Original Polling station
designated after
merger Reasons for merger
Tai Po 5. Tai Po Public School, Kwong Fuk
Estate
Sha Tin 6. Shatin Tsung Tsin Secondary School,
Sun Chui Estate
Sha Tin 7. Cartias Hiu Yau Kindergarten,
Kwong Lam Court
Kwong Fuk
Community Hall, Kwong Fuk Estate
YPICA Lee Ng Sui Oi Memorial
School, Sun Chui Estate
Kwong Yuen
Community Hall, Kwong Yuen Estate
There was a complaint at the 1994 DB elections that the choice of the original polling station was unsatisfactory as it could be misconstrued to be associated with one interested party in the elections. The neighbouring polling station at the Community Hall is situated nearby in the same housing estate. Its floor area is sufficiently large to cope with the size of the electorate after the merger.
Access to Tsung Tsin Secondary School by the aged and the handicapped is inconvenient. The Lee Ng Sui-Oi Memorial School in same housing estate which is the polling station for another DBC is more suitable. The floor area of the latter is sufficiently large to cope with the size of the electorate after the merger.
The kindergarten is unsuitable as a polling station as it is too small. The polling station for the neighbouring DBC at the Kwong yuen Community Hall is situated nearby. Its floor area is sufficiently large to cope with the size of the electorate after the merger.
Hospital Authority's Manpower Indicators
14. MR MICHAEL HO asked (in Chinese): Although nearly six months have elapsed since the Hospital Authority published the Manpower Indicators in respect of the nursing and allied health professionals, no measures have been put in place to achieve the targets set out in the Indicators. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
(a) of the purposes and objectives of the Hospital Authority in formulating such Manpower Indicators;
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2467
(b) whether the staff in the grades concerned or the public have been consulted about the Manpower Indicators; if so, what was the duration of the consultation period;
(c) whether any concrete measures and the timing for achieving the targets in the Indicators have been drawn up; if so, when the details can be announced, and how such measures will be implemented by the Hospital Authority?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr President, the manpower indicators promulgated by the Hospital Authority are designed to serve as a planning tool to facilitate the work of hospital managers. These indicators provide a useful benchmark against which the staffing situation in different clinical specialties could be monitored. In areas where deficiencies are identified, appropriate action would be taken to redeploy existing manpower resources or to plan for the need of additional staff.
The manpower indicators have been discussed extensively by the Medical Services Development Committee of the Hospital Authority, and were circulated to individual hospitals as well as various staff groups for consultation. Furthermore, two seminars were conducted in October 1994 to familiarize 400 frontline nurse managers with the rationale and potential application of the new indicators.
The manpower indicators are not meant to be prescriptive staffing ratios. Individual hospitals are already making use of these indicators to adjust their respective manpower planning and deployment strategies. The Hospital Authority Head Office has also established an expert team to assist hospital managers in reviewing and addressing their staffing situation. This exercise is expected to complete by May 1995 so that new initiatives could be incorporated into the annual business planning process.
Apart from the development and implementation of manpower indicators, the Hospital Authority will continue with its intensified efforts to improve the recruitment and retention of nursing staff at all levels. Measures have been introduced to provide a better working environment for nurses, to enhance their training and education, to streamline work processes, to reduce the frequency of night shifts, and to employ additional supporting staff to undertake non-professional duties.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2468 Provision of Cable TV Channels to Government
15. MR ERIC LI asked (in Chinese): It was originally scheduled that Cable Television would start providing, free of charge, three channels for the Government to broadcast programmes on 1 January 1995. However, the three government channels will not be available for use until 1996 because of technical problems. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
(a) what measures are in place to ensure that the three government channels will be made available on time;
(b) of any specific plans to use these channels; and
(c) whether one or more of these channels will be open to the public as a public service channel, so as to encourage its use by educational bodies, community organizations, students and young people; if not, why not?
SECRETARY FOR RECREATION AND CULTURE: Mr President, I would like, first of all, to clarify a misconception. It was never the intention that the three channels reserved for government use on Wharf Cable's network should be handed over to the Government on 1 January 1995. Condition 10.3.1 of Wharf Cable Limited's Initial Subscription Television Broadcasting Licence clearly states that:
"Upon not less than 6 months notice in writing given by the Broadcasting Authority to the Licensee to expire at any time or times throughout the period of validity of this licence after 1 January 1995, the Licensee shall, in addition to the obligations referred to in clause 10.1, make available to Government free of charge and expense such use of not more than three channels in the basic package of programmes as may be directed by the Broadcasting Authority, subject to the availability of radio frequency spectrum during the period that the Licensee is utilizing that spectrum under this licence."
Thus provision is made for the channels to be handed over any time during the validity of Wharf Cable's 12-year licence. It follows in regard to part (a) of the question therefore, that there is no specific timetable for the Government to institute any measures to make the channels available. However, Wharf Cable do not have spare spectrum capacity at present on its MMDS system and is unlikely to have a sufficient subscriber reach on its optic fibre network to make handover worthwhile until well into 1996.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2469
As regards parts (b) and (c) of the question, Members were informed during the motion debate on 6 July 1994 that an inter-departmental working group had been set up in April 1994 to examine whether and if so, how the Government should make the best use of the government channels on Wharf Cable's network and should explore the ideas of providing a "public broadcasting service" and/or a "public access service". The working group has now completed its report and its recommendations are currently being considered within the Administration. It is intended that the outcome will be reported to Members shortly, once the Administration has taken a decision.
Squatter Areas
16. MR FREDERICK FUNG asked (in Chinese): In his 1994 Policy Address, the Governor stated that all urban squatters on Government land would be rehoused by March 1996. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council of:
(a) the names of all existing squatter areas in the territory together with the respective squatter population, their distribution on Government and private land, the estimated dates of clearance as well as the expected rehousing sites; and
(b) the squatter areas where the Housing Department has carried out improvement works under the Squatter Area Improvement (SAI) Scheme; whether any follow-up action on such improvement works has been taken; and which squatter areas have not undergone improvement works under the SAI Scheme?
SECRETARY FOR HOUSING: Mr President, there are about 31 200 urban squatters, of whom about 9 000 are living on Government land and the remainder on private lots. A list of urban squatter areas is at Annex 1. The Administration has pledged to clear all urban squatters on government land before 31 March 1996. There is no plan to clear other squatters. To avoid possible abuse, it is the Housing Department's practice not to announce the location and specific timing of squatter area clearances prior to the conduct of pre clearance surveys.
The Squatter Area Improvement Scheme covers a period of seven years between 1983 and 1990. A list of those squatter areas affected is at Annex 2. Since the completion of the programme, the Housing Department has continued to provide maintenance services for the public facilities in those areas.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2470 Annex 1
List of Urban Squatter Areas
Hong Kong Island
Near Yellow Stork House, J/O Repulse Bay Road and South Bay Road Tanner Hill Estate
Nga Choi Hang South Bay Road
Tin Hau Temple Hill * Headland Road
Ma Shan, Causeway Bay * Chung Hom Kok Road
Sir Cecil's Ride Sai Wan Chai
* Tai Hang Hill Stanley Market
Wun Sha Street Nam Yeuk
Rear of Confucious School St Stephen Beach, Stanley
Bowen Road Tai Tam Village, Stanley
Wan Chai Gap Road * Stanley Gap Road
Kennedy Street/Road and Sik On Street Tai Tam
Chatham Path and Tregunter Path Tai Tam Road (West)
Hatton Road Tai Tam Tuk Village
* Chu Mo Shan Shek O Road
Behind Tai Wah Factory Lan Nai Wan
Ho Jong Tung Ah Pui
Tai Hau Wan Village Ngan Hang
* Sandy Bay To Dai Wan (Diety Bay
Tai Wan Sun Chuen Windy Gap
Telegraph Bay Village Hok Tsui Village
* Near Baguio Village Nga Choi Hang (Hok Tsui) * North Victoric Road Shek O Village
Pokfulam Village Big Wave Bay
Victoria Road Near Wah Fu Estate Yuen Dao Ngam (Chai Wan Hill) (Shui Choi Tin Village and Pok Po Wan) Sai Wan Chuen (behind Block 19, * Lai Lung Wan Chai Wan Estate)
(Area opposite Hing Wai Ice Factory) Sai Chuen (below Cape Collinson Road) Chiu Chow Shan Cape Collinson Road
* Shek Pai Wan Road/Tin Wan Hill Tai Hang Tung Chuen (Tai Hang Ngau and Hillslope behind Apleichau Main Street Moon Wah Lau)
Pak Sha Wan, Apleichau Tai Tam Road (East)
* Deep Ditch Aldrick Village
Behind Aberdeen Police Station * Hoi Shum Temple, Shau Kei Wan Wong Chuk Hang Path and Old Village Shan Bin Terrace
Shouson Hill Road Ah Kung Ngam Village
Wong Chuk Hang Sun Wai Chuen Tanner Hill Below Tin Hau Temple Road Island Road side of Golf Course
* Squatter areas under clearance
Kowloon
Ma Pui Village Fuk Wing Street/Camp Street Ma Wan Village Hillside near Block 36, Shek Kip Mei Estate Che Tang Village Fuk Tak Temple
Lei Yue Mun Village North Kowloon Magistracy Hillslope Shung Shun Street Sea Front * Pak Shan Village
Ling Nam New Village (Lower) Ho Kar Yuen
Ling Nam New Village (Upper) Chung Shan Village
* Cha Kwo Ling Road (South) Tsz Mei Village
Cha Kwo Ling Village * New Kowloon No. 8 Cemetary Fan Wah Street Tak Mong Village
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2471 List of Urban Squatter Areas
Kowloon
* Kai Tin Village Ngau Chi Wan Village
Hillslope opposite Tsui Ying House, Ha Yuen Ling (West)/
Tsui Ping Estate Tai Hom Village (South of Kai Liu Lung Cheung Road)
Hillslope near Tsui Yeung House, Sheung Yuen Ling (North) Tsui Ping Estate * Diamond Hill New Village/ Ma Yau Tong Sheung Yuen Ling (South)/
Fuk Tak New Village Sheung Yuen Ling (North) Fei Po Hang/Kwun Tong Industrial Area * Diamond Hill New Village * On Lok Village * Tai Koon New Village
* Sai Wo Yuen/Tai Shing Village Chuk Yuen United Village (East) * Sau Ming Village Ngar Tsin Wai Village
* Wo Ping Village/Sau On Village Sa Po Road
* Jordan Path Shansi Street
Yuen Po Road
* Squatter areas under clearance.
Annex 2
Squatter Area Improvement Programme
Serial number Squatter area
Five-year programme
1 Tai Shing
2 Cheung Lung Tin I
3 Cheung Lung Tin II
4 Cheung Lung Tin III
5 Cheung Lung Tin IV
6 Ngar Choi Hang
7 Sai Wo Yuen
8 On Lok I
9 On Lok II
10 On Lok III
11 Sau Ming I
12 Sau Ming II
13 Tak Mong (Jat's Incline)
14 Fa Yuen I
15 Fa Yuen II
16 Nam On Fong
17 Sheung Yat Chuen
18 Tai Shing Extension
19 Man Kuk I
20 Man Kok II
21 Ma Shan I
22 Ma Shan II
23 Holy Cross Path I
24 Holy Cross Path II
25 Tai Hang Hill
26 Shek Lei Hill
27 O Pui Lung
28 Shing On
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2472
Serial number Squatter area
29 Lei Yue Mun Village
30 Ling Nam Lower Village
31 Ling Nam Upper Village
32 Ma Pui and Che Tang Village
33 Ma Wan Village
34 Heung Yeung
35 Fu Yung Shan
36 Hon Man Chuen
37 Kwong Pan Tin Lower
38 Kwong Pan Tin Upper
39 Pak Tin Pa
40 Aldrick Village
41 Ma Shan (Causeway Bay)
and Lin Fa Kung
42 Wang Hang
43 Ho Jong and Smithfield Road
44 Wong Chuk Hang Sun Wai
45 Stanley Valley
46 Lion Rock Hill Village
47 Nam Shan Mei Upper
48 Kwu Hang
49 Cha Kwo Ling I
50 Cha Kwo Ling II
51 Grandview Road
52 Telegraph Bay I
53 Telegraph Bay II
54 Chuk Lam
55 Mui Kong
56 Tai O
57 Ma On Shan
58 Shatin Tau Area 6
59 Hang Hau Chuen
60 Ying Pun
61 Kam Shan Village
62 Tai Hang Tung
63 Shan Bin Terrace
64 Ching Man Village
Two-year extended programme
65 Wong Chuk Hang Path and
Old Village
66 Yuen Dao Ngam
67 Wo Ping
68 Yau Tong Lower
69 Ngau Chi Wan
70 61/2 M, Castle Peak Road
71 Wo Yi Hop
72 Tso Kung Tam
73 Tai Wor Chuen
74 Big Wave Bay
75 Shek O I
76 Shek O II
77 Pokfulam Village
78 Tung Yeung
79 Tai Hom (South)
80 Tse Mei/Tin Liu
81 Tsz Mei
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2473
Serial number Squatter area
82 Tin Liu
83 Sham Tseng
84 Cheung Hang Village
85 A Kung Ngam Village I
86 A Kung Ngam Village II
87 Tai Wan Sun Chuen
88 Tai Hau Wan Village
89 Kwong Pan Tin 4
90 Tai Ping I
91 Tai Ping II
92 Diamond New Village
93 Kau Wah Keng Upper I
94 Kau Wah Keng Upper II
95 Pump Fong Sheung Chuen I
96 Pump Fong Sheung Chuen II
97 Lower Hon Man Village
98 Ka Wai Man Village
99 Above Mt Davis Cottage Area
100 Behind Tung Wah Eastern Hospital
101 Mt. Davis Road
102 Pak Dai Nei (East and West) Village
103 Kai Tsui Village
104 Chuk Yuen United Village
105 Kam Kuk Village
106 Pai Min Kok Upper Village
107 Kin Yip Tsuen
108 Hok Tsui
109 Windy Gap
110 Tung Ah Pui
111 Shui Choi Tin
112 Sheung Yuen Leng
113 Nam Shan Village
114 Ho Kar Yuen
115 Ha Kwai Chung
116 Yue Shan Yuen
117 Butterfly Valley
118 Yan Kam Tau, Tsing Yi
Non-British and Commonwealth Qualifications in Civil Service Recruitment
17. MR JAMES TIEN asked (in Chinese): The Secretary for the Civil Service has pointed out that reference to British and Commonwealth qualifications will not be mentioned in civil service recruitments in the future, and that a committee will be established to discuss the assessment of academic qualifications. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council of:
(a) the estimated number of persons holding non-British and Commonwealth university degrees who will benefit every year as a result of this change; and
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2474
(b) the criteria which the Government will adopt to assess the acceptability of degree programmes of non-British and Commonwealth universities for recruitment purposes; and how the applications of individual candidates will be appraised?
SECRETARY FOR THE CIVIL SERVICE: Mr President, my reply to the two questions are as follows:
(a) it is not possible to give any meaningful estimate of the number likely to benefit from our plans to widen recognition of degrees obtained from tertiary institutions in non-English speaking countries. I do not expect the number to be large, at least in the foreseeable future. We are after all talking about Hong Kong students. Given our substantial and steadily expanding tertiary sector, most choose to study here. By comparison, the number who have obtained qualifications or are currently studying abroad is small, and mostly relate to North America, Britain and other English-speaking countries. Very few have chosen to go to universities in non-English speaking countries. With the impending change in sovereignty and rising standards of tertiary education in the region, we can expect the number to grow. It is for this reason that we plan to strengthen the vetting for non-Hong Kong qualifications.
(b) The second question relates closely to the first, because it asks about the criteria which will be used to assess non-Hong Kong qualifications for the purposes of civil service recruitment. These will to some extent govern the numbers likely to benefit from the revisions to our system. The tougher the criteria the fewer will benefit. And I have to say that the criteria will be tough. They are simply stated; namely, that the Civil Service Branch must be absolutely satisfied that the qualifications in question are at least as good as the comparable Hong Kong qualifications, for the purposes of recruitment to the Civil Service. If we are in any doubt, we will err on the side of caution. To help us in our examination, we will draw on the advice of the Hong Kong Council for Academic Accreditation who have information and sources of further information on courses run by non-Hong Kong institutions. Assessments will be made on a case-by-case basis, and will have regard for the standing of the institution in question and of the authority accrediting its degree programmes; the entry requirements to the course; and the content and duration of the course.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2475
I should add, Mr President, that the entry qualification requirements are only the first step in the recruitment process. Eligible candidates must meet other requirements, including language requirements in many grades, and passing a selection interview.
Occupancy Rate of Hong Kong Industrial Technology Centre
18. DR HUANG CHEN-YA asked (in Chinese): The Hong Kong Industrial Technology Centre was opened in August 1994, but the occupancy rate of the 80 offices available for leasing up to now is very low. In view of this, will the Government inform this Council:
(a) how the Centre is going to attract more tenants to lease its offices;
(b) of the current occupancy rate of offices of the Hong Kong Productivity Council (HKPC) which similarly has offices for leasing; and
(c) whether there is a duplication in the provision of such leasing services by the Centre and the HKPC; if not, what is the difference between the services provided by these two organizations?
SECRETARY FOR TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Mr President, the Hong Kong Industrial Technology Centre Corporation does not anticipate any difficulty in attracting sufficient tenants to fill the Centre. Since fitting-out was completed in November 1994, 74% of the leasable area (18 916 sq m) has been committed to tenants. A commercial letting agent is promoting the Centre to potential tenants through direct mailing, features and advertisements in newspapers and journals. Space in the incubator units is being offered at a 70% rebate for the first year, and attractive discounts for the following two years. Other space is being offered at competitive market prices.
As regards the Hong Kong Productivity Council, in February 1995, 83% of the leasable space (3 386 sq m) in the Council's building was let to tenants.
There is no duplication in the services provided by the Council and the Centre. Additional space was provided in the Council's building to provide room for future expansion of its services. Some of this space has already been taken up by the Council. The Council has let the space which is not required for the time being to a variety of companies in order to generate rental income. The Council does not provide special services to its tenants. In contrast, the Centre is intended specifically to nurture the growth of technology based companies, which it does by providing a range of support services, including technology transfer and laboratory facilities.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2476 Hong Kong-China Ferry Terminal
19. MR WONG WAI-YIN asked (in Chinese): At present the Hong Kong - China Ferry Terminal at China Hong Kong City is heavily used, and because of staff shortage, frequent disruptions to the scheduled ferry services have arisen resulting in discontent among passengers. In view of this, will the Government inform this Council:
(a) of the number of scheduled ferry services that have been delayed in the past year;
(b) whether there is any plan to increase the number of staff so as to improve the present situation; if so, when the increase will be effected and what the number of additional staff will be; if not, why not; and
(c) whether consideration will be given to the construction of new Hong Kong - China ferry terminals in other locations as a long term measure to ease the pressure at the China Hong Kong City terminal; if so, what the specific plans are; if not, why not?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT: Mr President,
(a) In 1994, the berthing of about 27 000 vessels was delayed for more than five minutes at the Hong Kong-China Ferry Terminal, representing 36% of the total trips in that year. The delays were due to ferries arriving either earlier or later than was scheduled, and therefore missing their allotted berthing slots. This happened mostly during the peak morning and evening hours when the berths were fully occupied.
The situation is expected to improve in October this year, when three new berths for high speed ferries will be completed.
(b) The Immigration Department will provide seven additional staff in 1995-96 to help speed up the processing of passengers at the ferry terminal. The Customs and Excise Department has adequate staff for the time being.
(c) The existing Hong Kong-China Ferry Terminal is expected to reach capacity by 2001. An inter-departmental working group under the Planning Department is now identifying a suitable site for a new terminal, for completion before that date.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2477 Hong Kong Academy for Performing Arts and Hong Kong Institute of Education
20. MR TIMOTHY HA asked (in Chinese): As the Hong Kong Academy for Performing Arts and the Hong Kong Institute of Education now offer degree-level courses to local students, will the Government inform this Council whether:
(a) it is aware of the present source of finances, arrangements for allocation of funds and monitoring mechanism in the two institutions; how do the relevant authorities monitor their operations;
(b) there are any plans to put the two institutions under the aegis of the University Grants Committee; if so, what the details are and what the progress has been made so far; if not, why not; and
(c) it is aware of the respective estimated and actual expenditures of the two institutions in each of the past three years, as well as their budgets for the next financial year?
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER: Mr President,
(a) The Hong Kong Academy for Performing Arts (HKAPA)'s major source of funding is Government subvention, which amounts to about 85% of its recurrent income each year. This is supplemented by tuition fees and bank interest. The Academy also receives rental and box office commission from hirers of its venues for the management and maintenance of venues and private donations for scholarships. The Academy maintains a five-year forecast which is annually updated to take into account the actual amount of subvention approved by the Government and the needs of the Academy. Each year, the Academy's internal Resource Allocation Committee will consider the proposed budgets of individual Schools/Departments and make recommendations to the Director on the priority of proposed developments. The estimates will then be submitted to the Council of the Academy, which is the governing and executive body for the Academy, for approval.
The Government monitors the Academy's operation through various means. Under the HKAPA Ordinance, the Academy is required to submit to the Government a programme of proposed activities and estimates of income and expenditure, the latter of which will be closely scrutinized by relevant government departments. Within six months after the end of each financial year, the Academy is required to submit to the Governor a report on the activities of the Academy and copies of financial statements and the
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2478
auditors' report. The documents will then be tabled at the Legislative Council meeting. In addition to the above, the Secretary for Recreation and Culture, by virtue of being a member of the HKAPA Council, monitors the financial matters of the Academy.
The Hong Kong Institute of Education (HKIEd) plans to launch its first degree course in 1997-98. Its major source of funding is Government subvention. Over 93% of the recurrent expenditure and all the capital expenditure of the Institute are funded by the Government. Other sources of income include tuition fees and interest from bank deposits. The HKIEd is required each year to prepare a programme of proposed activities for the following three years and based on that, the estimates of income and expenditure for the coming year and the forecasts for the subsequent two years. These documents are then submitted to the Secretary for Education and Manpower (SEM) who is the Vote Controller of the Institute for scrutiny and approval. To monitor the operation of the HKIEd, the Institute is required to submit to the SEM monthly financial statements. It is also required to carry out a mid-year review on its activities and financial situation and report to the SEM the results. The HKIEd is required, under its ordinance, to submit to the Governor a report on its activities and copies of the financial statements and the auditors' report not later than six months after the end of each financial year and such reports and statements will be tabled at the Legislative Council thereafter. The SEM is also represented at the Standing Committee under the Governing Council of the Institute and its subcommittees on staffing, estates and campus development in order to monitor the operation of the Institute.
(b) There are no plans to bring the HKAPA under the aegis of the University Grants Committee (UGC). This is because the nature of the Academy is not so much an academic tertiary institution but rather, a special vocational training institution to train students for careers in the performing arts fields. As regards the HKIEd, the Administration has initiated discussions with the UGC and the Institute with a view to bringing the HKIEd under the aegis of the UGC. The precise arrangements and timing have yet to be worked out, but all parties concerned have agreed in principle to bringing the HKIEd into the UGC system as soon as practicable.
(c) The estimated and actual recurrent and capital expenditure of the HKAPA in each of the past three years and the budget for the coming financial year are in the Annex. As for the HKIEd, it was established only in April 1994 and took over the operation of the Colleges of Education and the Institute of Language in Education on 1 September 1994. The estimated recurrent and capital expenditure for the Institute for 1994-95 and projected expenditure for 1995-96 are also in the Annex.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2479 Annex
Estimated and Actual Recurrent and Capital
Expenditure of HKAPA in 1992-95
and Projected Expenditure in 1995-96
Estimated expenditure $m
Actual
expenditure $m
1992-93 99.4 103.1
1993-94 118.6 125.0
1994-95 138.8 146.4 (Revised estimate)
1995-96 155.3
Estimated Recurrent and Capital
Expenditure for HKIEd in 1994-96
$m
1994-95 339.7* (Revised estimate)
1995-96 1 073.2#
Note
* This amount includes, amongst other items, only seven months' expenditure for the salaries and on-cost of the campus staff.
# This amount includes $429.0 million for the campus development at Tai Po.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2480 MOTIONS
PUBLIC FINANCE ORDINANCE
THE SECRETARY FOR THE TREASURY moved the following motion: "That -
1. Authority is hereby given for a sum not exceeding $63,614,082,000 to be charged on the general revenue in advance of an Appropriation Ordinance for expenditure on the services of the Government in respect of the financial year commencing on 1 April 1995.
2. Subject to this Resolution, the sum so charged may be expended against the heads of expenditure, and expenditure for each such head shall be arranged in accordance with the subheads, shown in the draft Estimates of Expenditure 1995-96 or, where such estimates are changed under the provisions of the Public Finance Ordinance as applied by section 7(2) of that Ordinance, in accordance with such estimates as so changed.
3. Expenditure in respect of any head shall not exceed the aggregate of the amounts specified in respect of each subhead in that head, by reference to percentages, in section 4(a) and (b).
4. Expenditure in respect of each subhead in a head shall not exceed -
(a) in the case of a Recurrent Account subhead, an amount equivalent to -
(i) except where the subhead is listed in the Schedule hereto, 20% of the provision shown in respect of it in the draft
Estimates;
(ii) where the subhead is listed in the Schedule hereto, that percentage of the provision shown in respect of it in the draft
Estimates which is specified in relation to that subhead in the
Schedule; and
(b) in the case of a Capital Account subhead, an amount in equivalent to 100% of the provision shown in respect of it in the draft Estimates,
or such other amount, not exceeding the provision shown in respect of the subhead in the draft Estimates, as may in any case be approved by the Financial Secretary."
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2481
SCHEDULE [s.4]
Percentage of
provision
shown in draft
Head of Expenditure Subhead
Estimates
22 Agriculture and Fisheries Department
452 Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (Hong Kong)
456 World Wide Fund for Nature (Hong Kong)
25 25
28 Civil Aviation Department
31 Customs and Excise Department
170 Airport insurance 100 292 Seizure management 40
40 Education Department 325 Direct Subsidy Scheme 30
330 Assistance to private
30
secondary schools and
bought places
350 Refund of rents and rates
30
to kindergartens, private
schools and study rooms
489 Miscellaneous educational
30
services
46 General Expenses of 013 Personal allowances the
40
Civil Service
50 Government Land Transport Agency
225 Traffic accident victims assistance scheme - levies
100
60 Highways Department 273 Highways maintenance 30
61 Hospital Services Department
001 Salaries 70
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2482 Head of Expenditure Subhead
Percentage of provision
shown in draft Estimates
62 Housing Department control
294 Clearance and squatter 25
76 Inland Revenue Department
189 Interest on tax reserve certificates
149 General department expenses
25 25
209 Special legal expenses 30
34 Internal Security: Miscellaneous Measures
195 Defence Costs Agreement: cash
contribution
30
90 Labour Department Occupational Safety and Health Council
295 Contribution to the Occupational Deafness
Compensation Board
91 Lands Department land - ex gratia allowances
280 Contribution to the 25 25
221 Clearance of Crown 50
92 Legal Department 234 Court costs 25
243 Hire of legal services and
25
related professional fees
106 Miscellaneous Services 253 Expenses of refugees not
28
in Correctional Services
institutions
120 Pensions 015 Public and judicial service
30
pension benefits and
compensation
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2483
Percentage of
provision
shown in draft
Head of Expenditure Subhead
017 Surviving spouses' and
children's pensions,
widows' and orphans'
pensions and increases
021 Ex gratia pensions,
awards, allowances and
increases
Estimates 30
50
026 Employees' compensation 30
130 Printing Department 002 Allowances 25
160 Radio Television Hong Kong
102 Technical Services Agreement
25
163 Registration and Electoral Office
001 Salaries 30 002 Allowances 30
170 Social Welfare Department
176 Criminal and law enforcement injuries
compensation
25
177 Emergency relief 100
179 Comprehensive social security assistance scheme
180 Social security allowance scheme
184 Traffic accident victims assistance scheme
25 25 35
412 Refunds of rates 30
175 Standing Committee on Disciplined Services
Salaries and Conditions of Service
149 General departmental expenses
30
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2484 Head of Expenditure Subhead
Percentage of provision
shown in draft Estimates
176 Subventions: Miscellaneous
437 Hong Kong - Japan Business Co-operation Committee
25
446 Duty Lawyer Service 25
475 Outward Bound Trust of Hong Kong
487 Subventions for arts activities
502 Hong Kong
Archaeological Society
503 Subventions to voluntary agency camps
521 Skills centres for the disabled
177 Subventions: Non Departmental Public
25
35
30
25
25
429 Consumer Council 25
Bodies Council 441 Hong Kong Productivity 25
443 Hong Kong Tourist Association
444 Hong Kong Trade Development Council
520 Vocational Training Council
178 Technical Education and Industrial Training
25
25
28
001 Salaries 28
Department 002 Allowances 50
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2485
Percentage of
provision
shown in draft
Head of Expenditure Subhead
Estimates
188 Treasury 002 Allowances 30 163 Write-offs 50
187 Agents' commission and expenses
82
190 Other miscellaneous items 100
191 Payment to Cross-Harbour Tunnel Company Limited
100
192 Refunds of revenue 100
190 University Grants Committee
149 General departmental expenses
002 Allowances 25 55
169 Visitation 35
492 Grants to UGC-funded
26
institutions
496 Refund of rates - UGC
25
funded institutions
He said: Mr President, I move the motion standing in my name in the Order Paper.
The purpose of this motion is to seek funds on account to enable the Government to carry on existing services between the start of the financial year on 1 April 1995 and the enactment of the Appropriation Bill. This follows the procedure long established in this Council.
We have determined the funds on account sought under each subhead in accordance with paragraph four of the resolution, by reference to percentages of the provision shown in the draft Estimates. As the draft Estimates are changed from time to time, by the Finance Committee or under delegated powers, the provision to which the percentages are applied will also change.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2486
Thus the provision on account under each head is not constant but may vary, with every increase being matched by an equal decrease. The initial provision on account under each head is shown in the footnote to this speech. The aggregate total under all heads is fixed at $63,614,082,000 and cannot be exceeded without the approval of this Council.
The resolution also enables the Financial Secretary to vary the funds on account in respect of any subhead, provided that these variations do not cause an excess over the amount of provision entered for that subhead in the draft Estimates or an excess over the amount of funds on account for the head.
The Financial Secretary will issue a vote on account warrant to the Director of Accounting Services authorizing him to make payments up to the amount specified in this motion and in accordance with its conditions. The vote on account will be subsumed upon the enactment of the Appropriation Bill, and the general warrant issued after the enactment of the Appropriation Bill will replace the vote on account warrant and will be effective from 1 April 1995.
Mr President, I beg to move.
Question on the motion proposed, put and agreed to.
Footnote
Head of Expenditure
Amount shown in the draft Estimates $'000
Initial
amount of provision on account $'000
21 His Excellency the Governor's Establishment ................. 30,080 6,016 22 Agriculture and Fisheries Department ............................. 472,123 108,199 25 Architectural Services Department .................................. 1,204,351 241,467 24 Audit Department ............................................................ 92,896 18,580 23 Auxiliary Medical Services.............................................. 45,977 9,196 82 Buildings Department ...................................................... 290,705 65,821 26 Census and Statistics Department .................................... 359,768 72,802 27 Civil Aid Services............................................................ 66,304 13,901
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2487
Head of Expenditure
Amount shown in the draft Estimates $'000
Initial
amount of provision on account $'000
28 Civil Aviation Department............................................... 529,346 128,960 43 Civil Engineering Department ......................................... 613,110 134,622 30 Correctional Services Department ................................... 1,973,195 407,579 31 Customs and Excise Department ..................................... 1,057,759 228,891 37 Department of Health....................................................... 2,184,485 476,010 39 Drainage Services Department......................................... 750,913 158,425 40 Education Department ..................................................... 16,691,592 3,761,246 42 Electrical and Mechanical Services Department.............. 1,061,742 277,150 44 Environmental Protection Department............................. 1,674,465 456,137 45 Fire Services Department................................................. 1,891,594 453,741 46 General Expenses of the Civil Service............................. 3,989,075 897,442 166 Government Flying Service ............................................. 128,066 44,906 48 Government Laboratory................................................... 142,593 42,721 50 Government Land Transport Agency............................... 143,339 106,719 51 Government Property Agency.......................................... 1,741,768 350,154 143 Government Secretariat: Civil Service Branch ................ 124,547 25,111
29 Government Secretariat:
Civil Service Training Centre............................... 97,955 21,191
144 Government Secretariat:
Constitutional Affairs Branch............................... 22,198 4,440
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2488
Amount
shown in
the draft
Estimates
Initial
amount of provision on account
Head of Expenditure
145 Government Secretariat: Economic
$'000
$'000
Services Branch.................................................... 45,071 11,640
146 Government Secretariat: Education and
Manpower Branch ................................................ 38,938 7,788 147 Government Secretariat: Finance Branch ........................ 83,364 16,843
148 Government Secretariat: Financial
Services Branch.................................................... 103,189 31,721
149 Government Secretariat: Health and
Welfare Branch..................................................... 34,241 6,849 53 Government Secretariat: Home Affairs Branch ............... 56,877 11,376 150 Government Secretariat: Housing Branch........................ 14,540 2,908
142 Government Secretariat: Offices of the Chief
Secretary, the Financial Secretary and the
Political Adviser................................................... 255,885 53,895 96 Government Secretariat: Overseas Offices ...................... 199,509 49,404
56 Government Secretariat: Planning,
Environment and Lands Branch and
Works Branch ....................................................... 264,943 67,779
55 Government Secretariat: Recreation and
Culture Branch ..................................................... 98,708 29,044 151 Government Secretariat: Security Branch........................ 115,728 40,471
152 Government Secretariat: Trade and
Industry Branch .................................................... 42,671 8,535
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2489
Head of Expenditure
Amount shown in the draft Estimates $'000
Initial
amount of provision on account $'000
153 Government Secretariat: Transport Branch...................... 32,404 6,481 58 Government Supplies Department ................................... 144,138 28,828 60 Highways Department ..................................................... 1,240,098 311,931 63 Home Affairs Department................................................ 690,151 153,972 61 Hospital Services Department.......................................... 58,556 40,180 62 Housing Department ........................................................ 476,067 119,017 70 Immigration Department.................................................. 1,501,185 301,671 72 Independent Commission Against Corruption ................. 449,716 101,531 121 Independent Police Complaints Council.......................... 7,624 1,525 73 Industry Department ........................................................ 380,133 304,045 74 Information Services Department .................................... 219,845 56,962 47 Information Technology Services Department................. 360,915 72,229 76 Inland Revenue Department............................................. 861,259 177,274 78 Intellectual Property Department ..................................... 50,880 10,176 34 Internal Security: Miscellaneous Measures...................... 1,052,215 317,971 80 Judiciary........................................................................... 640,733 135,142 90 Labour Department .......................................................... 410,795 83,995 91 Lands Department............................................................ 1,071,726 255,219
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2490
Amount
shown in
the draft
Estimates
Initial
amount of provision on account
Head of Expenditure
$'000
$'000
94 Legal Aid Department ..................................................... 408,037 81,608 92 Legal Department ............................................................ 632,438 139,321 112 Legislative Council Commission ..................................... 228,401 56,120 98 Management Services Agency......................................... 61,958 31,352 100 Marine Department .......................................................... 770,790 245,562 106 Miscellaneous Services.................................................... 8,542,352 1,975,863
114 Office of the Commissioner for
Administrative Complaints................................... 19,836 3,968 113 Office of the Telecommunications Authority................... 96,077 24,821 116 Official Receiver's Office ................................................ 77,394 15,967 120 Pensions........................................................................... 6,903,732 2,006,747 118 Planning Department ....................................................... 269,666 87,764 122 Police: Royal Hong Kong Police Force ........................... 9,029,425 1,881,849 126 Post Office ....................................................................... 2,501,919 504,437 130 Printing Department......................................................... 193,353 40,038 136 Public Service Commission ............................................. 14,532 2,907 160 Radio Television Hong Kong........................................... 373,507 92,070 162 Rating and Valuation Department .................................... 198,740 39,748 163 Registration and Electoral Office..................................... 206,692 51,226
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2491
Head of Expenditure
Amount shown in the draft Estimates $'000
Initial
amount of provision on account $'000
167 Royal Hong Kong Regiment (The Volunteers) ................ 26,260 5,252 168 Royal Observatory ........................................................... 142,916 32,831 170 Social Welfare Department .............................................. 11,393,247 2,666,934
174 Standing Commission on Civil Service
Salaries and Conditions of Service....................... 9,970 1,994
175 Standing Committee on Disciplined Services
Salaries and Conditions of Service ....................... 4,923 1,011 173 Student Financial Assistance Agency .............................. 1,275,653 256,331 176 Subventions: Miscellaneous............................................. 252,922 80,198 177 Subventions: Non-Departmental Public Bodies............... 20,545,860 4,607,559
178 Technical Education and Industrial
Training Department............................................. 763 215
180 Television and Entertainment Licensing
Authority .............................................................. 43,524 9,201 110 Territory Development Department ................................. 161,819 32,364 181 Trade Department ............................................................ 212,849 43,684 186 Transport Department ...................................................... 501,296 127,522 188 Treasury ........................................................................... 281,131 82,507 190 Universities Grants Committee........................................ 8,842,783 2,304,529 194 Water Supplies Department ............................................. 3,530,136 717,753 126,186,951 29,579,082
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2492
Amount
shown in
the draft
Estimates
Initial
amount of provision on account
Head of Expenditure
$'000
$'000
184 Transfers to Funds ........................................................... 34,035,000 34,035,000 Total 160,221,951 63,614,082
RETIREMENT PROTECTION
PRESIDENT: I have accepted the recommendations of the House Committee as to the time limits on speeches for this motion and the two Private Member's motions to be debated later today and Members were informed by circular on 2 March. The movers of the two Private Member's motions will have 15 minutes for their speeches including their replies and another five minutes to reply to proposed amendments. Other Members, including movers of amendments, will have seven minutes for their speeches. Under Standing Order 27A, I am required to direct any Member speaking in excess of the specified time to discontinue his speech.
THE SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER moved the following motion:
"That this Council urges Government to introduce as expeditiously as possible a mandatory, privately managed occupational retirement protection system with provision for the preservation and portability of benefits."
He said: Mr President, I move the motion against my name in the Order Paper.
Over the past 30 years, much has been said, both inside and outside this Council, about the best way to provide financial security for our elderly people. I do not think that there is anyone who would deny that the elderly in our community, who have contributed and continue to contribute so much to our economic well-being and prosperity, deserve to be able to live in dignity and financial security during their retirement years. Yet, the best way of reaching that goal always appears to have eluded us.
There are currently some 460 000 people over the age of 65. This number will rise to about one million by the year 2016. Although Hong Kong has a high average savings rate and most of our citizens have been able to support themselves in retirement until now, we cannot assume that this will always be so. Nor should we simply continue to rely upon traditional patterns
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2493
of family support. Prudence dictates that we take precautionary measures. We cannot afford further delay. The time for action is now.
It is an inescapable fact that the Government alone cannot solve the financial needs of our elderly population, unless we are to put an intolerable burden on our taxpayers. We need to involve the working population and employers as well. Let me go back in time to examine what we have tried to achieve in the area of providing income security for the elderly over the last three years.
Retirement protection system
Most Members will recall that in October 1992 we released a Consultation Paper entitled "A Community-wide Retirement Protection System". This proposed the introduction of a mandatory contributory retirement system for all employees under the age of 65 in full-time employment. The proposed scheme found support within the community. The main areas of concern included the absence of a guaranteed mechanism within the system to deal with benefit losses arising from fraud, theft or poor investment management, and the fact that the system did not help those outside the workforce.
Old Age Pension Scheme
We took heed of those points, in particular the apparent concern about the absence of coverage for those elderly people outside the workforce or who have already retired. In December 1993, as Members will recall, we announced in this Council that we would implement the Old Age Pension Scheme (OPS) subject, among other things, to endorsement by the community of our proposals. In July last year, we released our second consultation document, entitled "An Old Age Pension Scheme for Hong Kong". The OPS would have given all eligible elderly persons a monthly pension of $2,300, and would have been funded by a modest contribution from employers and employees, and an affordable level of financial input from the Government.
When the OPS consultation period ended on 31 October last year, we had received a total of 6 665 written submissions. Although this was an encouraging response in numerical terms, as we assessed the views expressed in those submissions, it became clear to us that public opinion on the OPS was, at best, divided. Nor was there any support for the OPS in this Council. Members will recall that at the motion debate on the OPS on 9 November 1994 to debate the motion "That this Council is of the opinion that the Government has to assume greater financial responsibility for the Old Age Pension Scheme and, at the same time, should attach due importance to the views expressed by the public during the consultation period in order to refine the Scheme and take positive steps to improve the existing welfare system for the elderly", only one Member of this Council spoke firmly in support of the OPS as presented by the Government. May I remind Members that the vote in favour of an amended motion which called upon the Government to seriously consider views expressed by the public
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2494
on various retirement schemes, including the OPS, was passed by a majority of 28 votes to three.
We had to face the reality. We had sought public endorsement of the OPS, but public views were divided. There was little support for the OPS in the news media, nor indeed in this Council. There was clearly no consensus for the scheme in Hong Kong, and we shall not return to it. We have to decide where to go next.
It would have been quite inappropriate to try, as some have suggested, and put the OPS to this Council in any case. To proceed along the OPS route meant that we needed the clear support of the community, this Council and the Chinese side. We cannot ignore the fact that we need both legislation and the agreement of the Chinese Government for any retirement scheme that goes beyond 1997.
There have been suggestions that in the light of the rejection of the 1992 consultation paper, "A Community-wide Retirement Protection System", and the divided views on the OPS, the Government should maintain the status quo and continue to encourage the establishment of occupational retirement schemes on a voluntary basis. At present, about one third of our workforce of 2.8 million is covered by some form of retirement scheme. If we simply maintain the present system, it has to be realized that, while the number of employees covered by such voluntary schemes will continue to grow gradually, there will still be many employees, particularly in smaller businesses, who will be without retirement protection for the foreseeable future. Indeed it would be unrealistic ever to expect the entire workforce to be covered under a voluntary system.
Mandatory privately managed provident fund
Submissions on the OPS indicated that there was now likely to be more public acceptance of a mandatory, privately managed provident fund system, particularly if it could be set up by 1997. Over the last few weeks, my colleagues have been seeking the views of community leaders on what is now the only remaining alternative for retirement protection. After nearly 30 meetings with Members of this Council, both individually and in groups, with trade union leaders and representatives of the business community, we have gained the impression that the introduction of what we call a mandatory, privately managed provident fund system, or the MPF for short, would be regarded as a practical way forward to help our hard-working labour force to look after themselves better in their retirement years.
Let me now describe the key features of the MPF as we see it at this point in time. The proposed MPF should include the following main features:
(1) it would be mandatory for every employer to establish a retirement scheme for his employees under the age of 65;
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2495 (2) it would be a joint contribution scheme by both employees and employers;
(3) there would be a statutory minimum contribution of which the employer should pay half;
(4) there would be a minimum salary level below which an employee might elect not to participate in the scheme;
(5) there would be a maximum salary level above which statutory contributions would not be required;
(6) there will be a requirement for preservation and portability of benefits until an employee reaches retirement age, except in specified circumstances such as death, total disability or permanent departure from Hong Kong;
(7) there be an enhancement of regulatory controls over the operation of registered occupational retirement schemes and the prudential supervision of scheme administrators and pooled retirement schemes;
(8) a system will be developed to deal with benefit losses due to fraud or misfeasance of scheme administrators; and
(9) a residual pool scheme will be developed to provide coverage for those employers unable to find a scheme provided in the open market.
Let me now elaborate on some of the features I have just mentioned. First of all, the system that would be developed within the MPF to deal with benefit losses. Some groups and individuals have expressed concern about what may happen if one of the constituent schemes of the MPF goes bankrupt. I should emphasize first of all that the Occupational Retirement Schemes Ordinance, which governs the operation of voluntary retirement schemes, already requires all such schemes to be funded properly; for the assets of a retirement scheme to be maintained separately from those of the employer and to be used only for the purposes of the scheme; for the financial position of a retirement scheme to be subject to the annual scrutiny of an independent auditor; and for employees to have the right to seek information about their schemes. Moreover, retirement funds held under trust are afforded protection in that all assets belong to the trustees and not to the fund manager, and therefore would be recovered in the event of a fund manager going bankrupt.
Nevertheless, we do recognize the fact that, in a situation where contributions are mandatory, we should strengthen the regulation of fund managers and our system of prudential provision. This we will do. Our role is to minimize risk due to fraud and theft, and ensure prudential supervision and
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2496
regulation. Within the MPF, a system will be developed in collaboration with the insurance and fund management industries to compensate for losses brought about by unlawful activity. Such a system could take the form of a retrospective levy, or a compensation fund, or some other means. I look forward to the support and close co-operation of the industries in this respect.
While on the subject of losses and guarantees, I must stress at this point that the Government will not consider under any circumstances providing what would be in effect a taxpayers' guarantee against investment losses. To ask taxpayers to be liable for bad investment decisions made either by contributors in their selection of schemes or by fund managers or investment consultants in the public sector would be foolhardy. It will serve only to encourage aggressive or unscrupulous fund management which is what we are seeking to avoid. However, we will be examining how best to minimize the risk of investment loss, for instance by prohibiting over-concentration of risks, introducing stricter control of trustees, improving supervision of life insurance companies and requiring adequate capital ratios, ring-fenced assets and transparency of operation.
Minimum salary level
Secondly, the minimal salary level. This recognizes that for some of those earning below a minimum level, which could be set at, say, about $4,000 a month, the contribution might cause financial hardship. We shall allow such employees ....
At this point, a banner was put up in the public gallery.
PRESIDENT: Clear the gallery. Clear the gallery.
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER: We shall allow such employees to elect whether or not they wish to contribute to their employer's scheme. If they elect to contribute, though, then the employer must also pay his share of the contribution. This is an important point. Lowly paid employees will have a choice in the way they handle their own financial affairs.
The MPF will be open to all employees, so it is not correct to say, as some critics have said, that it will not take care of those at the lower end of the economic ladder. The MPF will provide a degree of income security upon retirement, even to those employees who might not expect to participate in a voluntary occupational retirement scheme in the near future. For every dollar an employee puts into the MPF, there will be a corresponding dollar from his employer. It will also allow them to participate in an investment scheme where their contributions will be pooled together to yield a better return — an
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2497
opportunity which otherwise might not have been open to them. When we move on to the consultancy, we shall also consider the needs of the self-employed, and whether they should take part in the MPF.
Residual pool scheme
We expect the majority of employers to be able to find a retirement scheme provider in the private sector, but we realize there are going to be some who, for one reason or another, are unable to do so. This will be particularly relevant to smaller businesses, or those with employees on low incomes. We are also conscious in this respect of the points made by the insurance and fund management industries that the administrative cost of managing small contributions will be disproportionately large and might eat into the capital. To ensure that all employers are able to comply with the law, there will be a residual pool scheme which will provide coverage for their employees. Such a scheme would still be run on commercial principles. Let me remind Members that the residual pool scheme is not the same as a central provident fund, about which I shall be speaking later. It is simply an alternative means of providing retirement protection essentially for those who are not able to find it in the open market. It is one of a number of points which we shall discuss in greater detail with our consultants. In addition, as Members will know, many employers offer a choice of retirement schemes to provide for the varying needs of their employees. We would want this option of choice to remain and continue.
Benefit level
Let me now deal with some particular points which appear to be giving rise to concern and confusion. Some have called for a minimum benefit level to be provided under the MPF, or for a pension to be provided for those who have not saved enough under the system. While we appreciate that there will be those who may not have been able to accrue what they perceive to be an adequate amount on which to retire, the MPF, like other similar systems, would operate on the strict principle of beneficiaries receiving what the retirement protection scheme has produced in the way of investment return. Those in genuine financial need would still be able to apply for existing welfare benefits for the elderly, subject to eligibility.
Relationship with long service and severance payments
I shall now turn to the question of how the MPF will relate to the provision for long service payments and severance payments under the Employment Ordinance. At present, the employer's contributions to a retirement scheme may be set off against any amount he has paid out for severance payments or long service payments. Employers do not pay twice. Severance payments and long service payments are not designed as
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2498
supplementary retirement schemes. They are intended to be alternatives to these retirement schemes. That is why the offsetting provisions exist under the present voluntary system of occupational retirement schemes. We do not intend to change it under the MPF, although we will need to consider very carefully the effect of the MPF on both schemes.
Preservation and portability
The basic aim of a retirement system must be to ensure that an employee accrues enough benefits by the end of his working life to allow him to enjoy an element of financial security in his retirement years. For this to happen, the benefits must be kept intact until the end of his working life, not paid out upon change of job. This is a principle of benefit preservation. Upon change of job, the accumulative balance will be transferred from the scheme of the former employer to that of the new employer. This process will be repeated each time the employee changes job. The retirement benefit payment will be made by the scheme of the last employer prior to retirement. The question of portability and how to make it work as smoothly as possible to the benefit of scheme contributors, is one that will be examined very carefully by our consultants.
Central provident fund
Finally, let me turn to the perennial call for us to establish a central provident fund (CPF). Our view on this remains unchanged. It is not an option for Hong Kong. It offers no freedom of choice, tends to produce low returns on investment, and will result in an over concentration of funds under one authority. We hold the same view in respect of a CPF on its own, and a CPF put together in an uneasy partnership with any other form of retirement protection.
Those Members who are proposing a Hong Kong Central Provident Fund Bill must know that we will not support it. A CPF cannot work without government funding, and this most definitely will not be forthcoming.
Conclusion
Mr President, I believe that the mandatory, privately managed provident fund system is not only the most acceptable way of providing retirement protection for our elderly people, it is also the only way left. It is abundantly clear that there is no mandate to proceed with the OPS. It took us seven months to design the OPS, a further three and a half months for the consultation period, and yet a further three months to assess the results of the exercise. The door to the OPS will not be reopened. We cannot go on devising new schemes. Without clear support for the MPF, we will not proceed. I call upon Members of this Council today to give us the clear support we need to move on to the next
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2499
stage of the MPF consultation process, which is to appoint a consultant to advise us on the details of the system. Thereafter we will discuss the MPF in the Sino-British Joint Liaison Group. We hope to put primary legislation on the MPF to this Council before the end of this current Session, and our eventual aim is to have the MPF in place as quickly as possible.
Mr President, I beg to move.
MR ANDREW WONG: A point of elucidation.
PRESIDENT: Yes, Mr WONG.
MR ANDREW WONG (in Cantonese): The Secretary for Education and Manpower said just now that in 9 November 1994's debate, only one Member strongly supported the motion on what I termed "the Old Age Subsistence Scheme". May I ask whom the Secretary was referring to? Having checked against relevant Hansard records, I found quite a number of Members (whose names I find it inappropriate to pronounce here) did vote against the amendment motion put forward by Mr James TIEN, which called on the Administration to consider different kinds of retirement protection schemes. However, as far as I am aware, the Chief Secretary, the Attorney General and the Financial Secretary merely abstained. Of the speeches delivered, at least mine was strongly in support of the "Old Age Subsistence Scheme". The "Scheme" was not "slain" even after Mr TAM Yiu chung's motion was amended by Mr James TIEN, since the majority of the Members then chose to abstain. But evidently, at least three Members strongly supported the motion and opposed the amendment put forward by Mr TIEN, namely Mr PANG Chun-hoi, Mr TAM Yiu-chung and Mr Jimmy McGREGOR. May I ask the Secretary for Education and Manpower to clarify who was the Member he clearly recalled as the only Member supporting the motion, while the remaining 59 Members were not in support of it?
PRESIDENT: Under Standing Orders, it is entirely up to you whether you wish to elucidate or not, Secretary.
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER: No, Mr President. Question on the motion proposed.
PRESIDENT: Mr Jimmy McGREGOR has given notice to move an amendment to the motion. His amendment has been printed in the Order Paper and
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2500
circulated to Members. I propose to call on him to speak and to move his amendment now so that Members may debate the motion and the amendment together.
MR JIMMY McGREGOR moved the following amendment to the Secretary for Education and Manpower's motion:
"To insert "in combination with a substantial increase in the rates of payment under the Normal Old Age Allowance, the Higher Old Age Allowance, and the Comprehensive Social Security Assistance schemes which presently cover over 500 000 Hong Kong citizens aged 65 and above" after "benefits"."
MR JIMMY McGREGOR: Mr President, I move that the Secretary for Education and Manpower's motion be amended as set out in the Order Paper. It will be quite evident to what purpose I have amended the government motion. In doing so, I have the full support of the Hong Kong Democratic Foundation. I may not have the support of all the members of the Hong Kong General Chamber of Commerce.
The proposed mandatory private sector provident fund scheme cannot stand alone. It cannot by itself represent a serious attempt by the Government to provide a realistic alternative to the Old Age Pension Scheme (OPS) so abruptly abandoned by the Government after a mockery of consultation with Hong Kong's mostly unrepresented public.
I have argued for a government administered OPS for nearly 10 years and in this Council for seven. My predecessor, Mr Tom CLYDESDALE, asked for the same consideration in 1987 in this Council. The Hong Kong General Chamber of Commerce supported this initiative for several years until perhaps it came too close to reality for comfort.
Why did the Government dump the OPS with such haste? Why did the Government dump over half a million aged Hong Kong people now given a paltry average $500 a month after promising them an old age pension of $2,300 a month to take effect very soon? Was the Government so terrified of the business sector and so anxious about China that the legitimate and reasonable aspirations of over half a million people could be set aside without a fight? Is the sweat and labour of these people during the last 50 years which contributed, on admission, so much to the prosperity of Hong Kong to be disregarded? Was the Government so chicken-hearted that social justice had to give way to economic expediency?
Did China say no? Certainly Chinese officials in contact with the business sector said "No". But did LU Ping say "No"? Did LI Peng say "No"? What kind of survey was carried out to determine public opinion on this vital issue? It was, in my view, a complete nonsense, a travesty and a disgrace, rivalling
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2501 another public opinion survey by the Government in 1987. Do any of you remember?
I can tell the Government that at least 600 000 people were in favour of the OPS. They would have been the first old age pensioners. The majority of them have now been dumped like so much garbage. I can also say that the workers and the people represented by the Democratic Alliance for the Betterment of Hong Kong and Association for Democracy and People's Livelihood, perhaps hundreds of thousands of union members, were in favour of the OPS. The Democratic Party agreed with it in principle. The puny response to the Government's touted survey ensured that business organizations and their members would be well represented because they are organized whilst the 600 000 aged people would not respond since they are not organized nor adequately represented.
This, in my view, was a pathetic charade. The Chinese response was also sad and ill-informed. The business response was predictable, organized, well funded and, in my view, disgraceful in a territory as rich as Hong Kong with the kind of distribution of wealth that has failed consistently to provide adequately for our aged. The business sector has consistently killed any possibility that may have existed for a central provident fund during the last 25 years. The Democratic Party ought to understand that situation and concentrate on reality. I appeal to them to do so now.
The business sector rejected a mandatory private sector provident fund scheme in 1992 for apparently good reasons. The business sector, I would say, single-handedly brought down the Old Age Pension Scheme in the face, in my view, of a craven government and a paralysed legislature. As the Governor admitted, the Government has done two "U" turns in the last three years to make one full circle and back to the beginning. Now we are back to a scheme rejected in 1992, this time, however, with business support and assurances. We are advised that a review is being done on the Comprehensive Social Security Assistance (CSSA) to be completed by the end of this year. Three cheers for a caring government, solicitous business organizations and befuddled legislators. Business will be happy looking after the billions of dollars arising every year from the 10% payroll contributions. The Government will claim a great victory in solving at last the problem of retirement protection for all workers. They will also trumpet government generosity in increasing the CSSA allowances in due course.
And the 500 000 recipients of the present old age allowances will remain as they are — out in the cold — with annual inflation related increases to their monthly pittances.
That is the motivation for my amendment. Those were the mothers and fathers of long ago who are now financially abandoned by the Government, by business, and possibly, today, by this Council. I ask Councillors to look to their consciences. Ask yourself if it is not obscene that the Government shall build up
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 March 1995 2502
reserves of over $150 billion and total cash assets of nearly $400 billions to hand over to the Special Administrative Region authority when a very small part of these riches could provide all our elderly, except those who have no need of it, with the comfort and dignity of $2,300 a month. Are we a community of such greed and selfishness that our aged citizens are again to be denied? The Government has issued figures to show the cost of my amendment. They have also admitted that the new airport in three years time will become an income earner of enormous proportions, easily able to provide for the cost of a substantial increase in the old age allowances. Corporate tax and personal tax will not, in my view, have to be increased as a result of the increase of allowances. These are scare tactics. The Government should be ashamed of it.
If the government motion is approved, with or without amendment, that will make further discussion on an OPS meaningless. My amendment in that light becomes very important to the great majority of aged people and those who will reach 65 in the coming years.
Councillors, I ask you, if you have any regard for our elderly, please vote with me for my amendment.
Thank you, Mr President.
Question on the amendment proposed.
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr President, the decision of my colleague, the Secretary for Education and Manpower, to confine the scope of his motion to retirement protection alone was a carefully considered one. The Administration wishes this Council to have the opportunity to express its view on this important issue without being distracted into a debate about the appropriate level of social security payments and allowances for the elderly. Indeed, the Council will have the opportunity to express its views on the latter subject when it discusses the motion to be moved by Dr YEUNG Sum later today.
Apart from this, we also find the substance of the amendment unacceptable, mainly because of the significant financial implications involved, especially in the case of payments under the Old Age Allowance Scheme. As at December 1994 approximately 420 000 persons were receiving this allowance. The 133 000 between the ages of 65 and 69 receiving the normal allowance in 1994-95 were paid $485 per month, subject only to a declaration that their income and assets were below a certain level. Approximately 287 000 aged 70 years and over were paid the higher allowance of $550 per month and were not even subject to an income declaration. We estimate that 73% of eligible persons in Hong Kong at 65 years of age or above claimed the allowance in 1994-95.
No comments yet.
Private notes are available after approval.