ENG-1994-11-16 — Page 1

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 16 November 1994 873 OFFICIAL RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS

Wednesday, 16 November 1994

The Council met at half-past Two o'clock

PRESENT

THE PRESIDENT

THE HONOURABLE JOHN JOSEPH SWAINE, C.B.E., LL.D., Q.C., J.P.

THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY

THE HONOURABLE SIR NATHANIEL WILLIAM HAMISH MACLEOD, K.B.E., J.P.

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL

THE HONOURABLE JEREMY FELL MATHEWS, C.M.G., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE ALLEN LEE PENG-FEI, C.B.E., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE MRS SELINA CHOW LIANG SHUK-YEE, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE HUI YIN-FAT, O.B.E., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE MARTIN LEE CHU-MING, Q.C., J.P.

DR THE HONOURABLE DAVID LI KWOK-PO, O.B.E., LL.D., J.P. THE HONOURABLE NGAI SHIU-KIT, O.B.E., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE PANG CHUN-HOI, M.B.E.

THE HONOURABLE SZETO WAH

THE HONOURABLE TAM YIU-CHUNG

THE HONOURABLE ANDREW WONG WANG-FAT, O.B.E., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE LAU WONG-FAT, O.B.E., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE EDWARD HO SING-TIN, O.B.E., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE RONALD JOSEPH ARCULLI, O.B.E., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE MARTIN GILBERT BARROW, O.B.E., J.P.

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 16 November 1994 874 THE HONOURABLE MRS PEGGY LAM, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS MIRIAM LAU KIN-YEE, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE LAU WAH-SUM, O.B.E., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE JAMES DAVID McGREGOR, O.B.E., I.S.O., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS ELSIE TU, C.B.E.

THE HONOURABLE PETER WONG HONG-YUEN, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ALBERT CHAN WAI-YIP

THE HONOURABLE VINCENT CHENG HOI-CHUEN, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MOSES CHENG MO-CHI

THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG MAN-KWONG

THE HONOURABLE CHIM PUI-CHUNG

REV THE HONOURABLE FUNG CHI-WOOD

THE HONOURABLE FREDERICK FUNG KIN-KEE

THE HONOURABLE TIMOTHY HA WING-HO, M.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL HO MUN-KA

DR THE HONOURABLE HUANG CHEN-YA

THE HONOURABLE SIMON IP SIK-ON, O.B.E., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE LAM KUI-CHUN

DR THE HONOURABLE CONRAD LAM KUI-SHING, J.P. THE HONOURABLE LAU CHIN-SHEK

THE HONOURABLE EMILY LAU WAI-HING

THE HONOURABLE LEE WING-TAT

THE HONOURABLE ERIC LI KA-CHEUNG, J.P.

THE HONOURABLE FRED LI WAH-MING

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 16 November 1994 875 THE HONOURABLE MAN SAI-CHEONG

THE HONOURABLE STEVEN POON KWOK-LIM

THE HONOURABLE HENRY TANG YING-YEN, J.P.

THE HONOURABLE TIK CHI-YUEN

THE HONOURABLE JAMES TO KUN-SUN

DR THE HONOURABLE SAMUEL WONG PING-WAI, M.B.E., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE YEUNG SUM

THE HONOURABLE HOWARD YOUNG, J.P.

THE HONOURABLE ZACHARY WONG WAI-YIN

DR THE HONOURABLE TANG SIU-TONG, J.P.

THE HONOURABLE ROGER LUK KOON-HOO

THE HONOURABLE ANNA WU HUNG-YUK

THE HONOURABLE JAMES TIEN PEI-CHUN, O.B.E., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE ALFRED TSO SHIU-WAI

ABSENT

THE CHIEF SECRETARY

THE HONOURABLE MRS ANSON CHAN, C.B.E., J.P.

DR THE HONOURABLE LEONG CHE-HUNG, O.B.E., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE MARVIN CHEUNG KIN-TUNG, O.B.E., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE PHILIP WONG YU-HONG

THE HONOURABLE CHRISTINE LOH KUNG-WAI

IN ATTENDANCE

MR MICHAEL LEUNG MAN-KIN, C.B.E., J.P.

SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 16 November 1994 876

MR MICHAEL SUEN MING-YEUNG, C.B.E., J.P.

SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS

MR ALISTAIR PETER ASPREY, C.B.E., A.E., J.P.

SECRETARY FOR SECURITY

MR GORDON SIU KWING-CHUE, J.P.

SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES

MRS KATHERINE FOK LO SHIU-CHING, O.B.E., J.P. SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE

MR CANICE MAK CHUN-FONG, J.P.

SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS

THE CLERK TO THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL

MR RICKY FUNG CHOI-CHEUNG

THE DEPUTY SECRETARY GENERAL

MR LAW KAM-SANG

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 16 November 1994 877 PAPERS

The following papers were laid on the table pursuant to Standing Order 14(2): Subject

Subsidiary Legislation L.N. No.

Merchant Shipping (Fees) (Amendment) (No. 3)

Regulation 1994 ........................................................................... 576/94

Merchant Shipping (Launches and Ferry Vessels)

(Amendment) Regulation 1994 .................................................... 577/94

Merchant Shipping (Miscellaneous Craft) (Amendment)

Regulation 1994 ........................................................................... 578/94

Shipping and Port Control Ordinance (Amendment of

Schedule) Order 1994 .................................................................. 579/94

Ferry Services (the "Star" Ferry Company, Limited)

(Determination of Fares) (Amendment) Order 1994 .................... 580/94

Maximum Scale of Election Expenses (Municipal Councils)

Order 1994 ................................................................................... 581/94

Boundary and Election Commission (Registration of

Electors) (Functional Constituencies and Election

Committee Constituency) Regulation .......................................... 585/94

Boundary and Election Commission (Registration of

Electors) (Geographical Constituencies)

(Amendment) (No. 2) Regulation 1994........................................ 586/94

Military Installations Closed Areas (Amendment) Order

1994 ............................................................................................. 587/94

Official Languages (Alteration of Text) (Control of

Obscene and Indecent Articles Ordinance) Order

1994 ............................................................................................. 588/94

Official Languages (Alteration of Text) (Film Censorship

Ordinance) Order 1994................................................................. 589/94

Shipping and Port Control Ordinance (Exemption) (1984-

89 Consolidation) (Amendment) Notice 1994.............................. 590/94

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 16 November 1994 878

Shipping and Port Control Ordinance (Exemption) Notice

1994 ............................................................................................. 591/94

Shipping and Port Control Ordinance (Exemption) (Repeal)

Notice 1994.................................................................................. 592/94

Shipping and Port Control Ordinance (Exemption) (Repeal)

(No. 2) Notice 1994...................................................................... 593/94

Hawker (Permitted Place) (Cessation) (No. 2) Declaration

1994 ............................................................................................. 594/94 Hawker (Permitted Place) (No. 2) Declaration 1994 ............................... 595/94

Official Languages (Authentic Chinese Text) (Bills of

Exchange Ordinance) Order.......................................................... (C)26/94

Official Languages (Authentic Chinese Text) (Control of

Obscene and Indecent Articles Ordinance) Order ......................... (C)27/94

Official Languages (Authentic Chinese Text) (Film

Censorship Ordinance) Order........................................................ (C)28/94

Sessional Papers 1994-95

No. 35 — Annual Report of the Director of Accounting Services and the Accounts of Hong Kong Government for the year ended 31 March 1994

No. 36 — Director of Audit's Report No. 23 on the Accounts of the Hong Kong Government for the year ended 31 March 1994 and the Results of Value for Money Audits

No. 37 — Regional Council, Hong Kong Accounts for the year ended 31 March 1994 with Report and Certificate of the Director of Audit

No. 38 — Regional Council

Annual Report 1993-94

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 16 November 1994 879 ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS

Development of Information Highway Systems

1. DR HUANG CHEN-YA asked: In view of the trend towards development of information highway systems in many countries, will the Government inform this Council of the following:

(a) whether the territory is lagging behind in the development of such systems; if so, how has it affected the territory's competitiveness in the region; and

(b) what measures will the Government take to ensure that policies in this area will be formulated and implemented?

SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES: Mr President, the term "information highway" describes an advanced information and communications infrastructure with networks linking homes, businesses, government and institutions to a wide range of interactive services, from data banks, electronic commerce, banking and business services to education, cultural services, entertainment, telemedicine and social services, and the theory is, all available at the touch of one button or a key.

The information highway links existing cable, telecommunications, broadcasting, satellite and computing networks into a fully integrated "network of networks". It makes use of the much larger capacity and high transmission speed of fibre optics and digital technology and the convergence of telecommunications, broadcasting and computer technologies and can transform how business is conducted and how people communicate in the future. Honourable Members may ask whether any countries in the world have successfully constructed an information highway. The answer is no, not yet but all industrialized countries have published their policies which are moving towards that direction.

Turning to Hong Kong, I would like to assure Honourable Members that Hong Kong is in no way lagging behind in the development of an information highway. On the contrary, we are well up with the most advanced countries in the world. In Hong Kong we have one of the most comprehensive fibre optic networks in the world and the first fully digitalized telephone system, capable of delivering the most advanced form of information and communication services. More than 300 of our commercial buildings have been connected directly onto this optical fibre network. In addition, there is a separate network being built and extended by our cable television company. By the end of this year, this network will reach more than 1.1 million homes. The company has plans to gradually replace the network with fibre optics in the next few years. From mid-1995, through competition in local fixed network services, we expect to see

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 16 November 1994 880

a rapid move towards bringing optical fibre technology to individual homes and offices and the introduction of a whole range of new and innovative services, such as personal numbering for the telephone and advanced data and video communication services.

Mr President, our telecommunications policy is to ensure that the widest range of quality telecommunications services be made available to the community at reasonable cost. The pro-competition policy we have adopted has enabled Hong Kong to enjoy one of the most sophisticated and advanced infrastructures in the world. We will continue to pursue this policy. Specifically, we will continue to:

- promote competition in the knowledge that this is the best mode to encourage investment and stimulate innovation;

- we will create a flexible regulatory framework to keep pace with technology developments;

- we shall encourage interconnection and provide open access to the networks; and

- ensure that services can be utilized by all sectors of the community.

We believe, Mr President, that this is the way to build the information highway that will take Hong Kong into the next century.

DR HUANG CHEN-YA (in Cantonese): Mr President, will the Government inform this Council of the ways and plans to turn the "fibre optic trunk route", after it has been installed, into an "information highway" available to all, instead of a "private lane" only

for use by television stations or the telephone company; and how would the Government provide ways by which schools, hospitals and government information networks can actually be connected to this "information highway"?

SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES (in Cantonese): Mr President, all the networks of Hongkong Telecom are constructed by the company's own investments, and Wharf Cable Limited also installed its own networks. As far as exclusive ownership and use of such networks are concerned, these two companies have absolute right to provide services, through their own networks for the customers interested in using the networks. As for the customers, if they wish to obtain any service through such networks, they should first make requests or application to the companies operating the networks. We have not received any complaints or reports about the failure or reluctance of such companies to provide customers with services for which reasonable requests have been received. In view of such, the use of networks is entirely open in Hong Kong. As regards the use of network by schools and other private or

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 16 November 1994 881

public institutions in the future, some basic services such as telephone and television are in fact provided through the networks, and by mid-1995, there will be new companies providing various types of network services. All the institutions or schools in Hong Kong may, according to their needs, choose for themselves the company or network the services offered by which they would like to apply for.

MR MAN SAI-CHEONG (in Cantonese): Mr President, concerning the computerization of the schools that the Education Department has contacted, as well as that of all universities, secondary schools and public libraries, does the Economic Services Branch have any plan to conduct or has it conducted any assessment on the possibility of such processes to complement the fibre optic network information policy, with a view to benefitting the public, as well as teachers and students by connecting computer system in those schools, universities and public libraries with the fibre optic network system when it is perfected, or even with the relevant fibre optic networks of foreign countries.

SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES (in Cantonese): Mr President, currently, there are international service institutions, such as Internet, providing the service mentioned. Through their interconnected networks, access may be made of information in the central data bank from anywhere in the world. Certainly, in order to join the network, schools, institutions or individuals have to complete certain procedures or to make an application. In addition, to retrieve and use the information, one is required to pay a fee the amount of which has been agreed at the time of application. Mr President, I have at hand information about a number of different networks already installed in Hong Kong, such as the internal network of the Government, the network of the Education Department, as well as the ones used in the Urban Services Department and the Regional Services Department. These are mostly individual networks that provide services for their own staff or for enquirers. At the moment, Hong Kong does not have any centralized interconnected networking facilities. Mr President, since time is limited, I will provide Mr MAN in writing with information about all the networks. (Annex I)

PRESIDENT: Mr MAN, not answered?

MR MAN SAI-CHEONG (in Cantonese): Mr question is: will the Economic Services Branch take the initiative to implement a consolidated plan to enable all existing networks to be connected with the future integrated network? All I want to know is whether it will or will not do that.

SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES (in Cantonese): Mr President, in terms of technology, there is no problem at all in linking together all networks

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 16 November 1994 882

or interconnected networks because the present fibre optic networks in Hong Kong are among the most advanced. As to whether there will be any organization responsible for co ordinating all networks and needs in the future, interested parties may proceed to do so on their own accord. While it is the Government's policy that no specific instruction will be given concerning the way in which co-ordination work is to be done, we will certainly give every assistance in matters concerning technology and licensing when required.

Follow-up on Police Assault Case

2. MISS EMILY LAU asked (in Chinese): It was reported that a painting worker who was assaulted, accused without cause and detained by the police in December 1990 had resorted to legal proceedings to claim damages from three police officers and the Attorney General's Chambers representing the police. The case was heard before the High Court on 11 October this year and the claimant was awarded a six-figure sum of damages in an out of-court settlement. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:-

(a) whether an inquiry into this case has been made by the police, and what are the reasons why criminal charges have not been brought against the police officers concerned;

(b) whether the police officers concerned have been convicted by the police's internal disciplinary board of breaches of discipline; if so, what disciplinary action has been taken against them; and

(c) what is the amount of damages involved in this case and who will pay for it?

SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, as regards part (a) of the question, the police investigated a complaint lodged by the painter in mid-1991. On legal advice, no criminal proceedings were instituted against the three officers due to insufficient evidence to prove assault.

As regards part (b) of the question, disciplinary action was taken against the three police officers concerned. One of the officers received a severe reprimand, while the other two were cautioned.

As regards part (c) of the question, damages of $100,000 were paid to the plaintiff, of which the Government paid $70,000 and each of the three officers concerned paid $10,000.

MISS EMILY LAU (in Cantonese): Mr President, since the Attorney General has advised that there was insufficient evidence to charge the three police officers with assault, why then was there sufficient evidence to take disciplinary

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 16 November 1994 883

action against them? Will the Government inform this Council what offences have these officers committed and why did disciplinary action have to be taken against them? As there was insufficient evidence to institute criminal proceedings against these officers, then why settled with the painter out-of-court and paid him damages of $70,000 with the taxpayers' money?

SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, the disciplinary proceedings were not taken against the three officers for assault. They were taken for contravention of police orders. I think, more specifically, because they had not obtained the prior approval of a senior officer for instituting an investigation, and because they had not followed the correct procedures in conducting the investigation. So, there was not disciplinary action for assault.

In the case of the civil proceedings, again the settlement did not include an admission of liability and there was therefore no question of it having been established that the painter had been assaulted. But I believe that even if the civil proceedings had found for assault, that would not necessarily constitute sufficient evidence for criminal proceedings. The onus of proof is very different in civil and in criminal proceedings.

PRESIDENT: Miss LAU, not answered?

MISS EMILY LAU (in Cantonese): Mr President, the Government's reply did not explain why it had to settle with the painter out-of-court and why it had to pay damages of $70,000 with the taxpayers' money.

SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, the case was settled out-of-court on the basis of the Government being liable vicariously if the case had gone against it and on the amounts that had been awarded in similar cases and on the likelihood of the three officers and the Government losing the case.

I forget the second part of the question, Mr President.

MISS EMILY LAU (in Cantonese): The question was why the Government had to pay damages of $70,000 with the taxpayers' money.

SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: I think, as I have just said, the reason is that if the case had gone against the three officers and the Government, and the Government was one of the defendants, then the Government would have been liable vicariously for the damages awarded.

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 16 November 1994 884

DR CONRAD LAM (in Cantonese): Mr President, the plaintiff resorted to legal proceedings against the Government or the police for two reasons — being assaulted by the police as well as being accused without cause and detained by the police. The first paragraph of the Secretary's reply said that there was insufficient evidence to prove assault, but it did not mention whether there was sufficient evidence to prove "accusation without cause and detention". Hence, I gather that "accusation without cause and detention" was established. If so, that should account for the disciplinary action taken against the three police officers as mentioned in the second paragraph, namely, one received a severe reprimand while the other two were cautioned. Will the Government inform this Council whether mere caution, as mentioned in paragraph two, is the proper way to deal with a case in which an innocent member of the public was detained without cause?

SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: I am very unclear, Mr President, as to the question I am being asked. What happens in a case like this, when a complaint is made, is that it will be investigated by the police. They will, if necessary, seek the advice of the Legal Department as to whether a prosecution should be instituted. Failing that, they will also consider and seek advice on whether disciplinary action should be instituted which is what was done in this case.

PRESIDENT: Dr LAM, do you want to pursue it further?

DR CONRAD LAM (in Cantonese): Mr President, the Secretary's reply seems to suggest that, according to the legal professionals, to reprimand the officers concerned for detention without cause is the proper way to handle the case. Did the Secretary mean that?

SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, the disciplinary proceedings were not taken against the officers concerned for detention without cause or unlawful imprisonment. As I said earlier, they were taken against the officers because they had failed to follow standing police procedures in a number of respects. The detention without cause was not proven. There was not sufficient evidence to take a case for that.

MR CHIM PUI-CHUNG (in Cantonese): Mr President, as we understand, the member of the public involved in this case has spent almost four years and obtained damages of $100,000. However, he did not spend those four years to get the money, it was rather his attempt to uphold the spirit of the rule of law. The Secretary for Security for mentioned in the third paragraph damages of $100,000. In other words, the Secretary followed the legal advice sought and believed that it was also his fault. Would the Government inform this Council

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of the number of complaints which the police had received and settled out-of-court without notifying the public?

PRESIDENT: Do you have the answer, Secretary?

SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, no, I am not aware of any previous cases similar to this.

MR FRED LI (in Cantonese): Mr President, as the Government paid $70,000 while each of the three police officers paid $10,000, could that be taken as the Government should be held responsible for 70% of the mistake committed? On what basis was the sum of $10,000 paid by each of the officers decided? Why was the officer who received a severe reprimand not made to pay more than the other two? On what basis was the 7:3 ratio decided?

SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, as I said, if the case had gone against the Government, the Government would have been vicariously liable for any damages that had been awarded, so also would have been the officers. This was an agreed means of settling the case.

PRESIDENT: Yes, Mr LI, not answered?

MR FRED LI (in Cantonese): Why did the Administration choose the 7:3 ratio? Does that mean that the Government will adopt this ratio every time it pays damages? Why was the ratio not set at 6:4?

SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: No, Mr President, it would not necessarily apply in all similar cases. Each case would be considered on its merits. This is the agreement reached in this case.

MR JAMES TO (in Cantonese): Mr President, the Secretary mentioned in paragraph one of his reply that there was insufficient evidence to institute criminal proceedings because criminal proceedings require proof beyond reasonable doubt. Paragraph three mentioned, however, damages of $100,000 were paid because it was a civil case. The onus of proof required of civil proceedings is a "balance of probabilities", meaning that the plaintiff will win the case and obtain damages if his story is more credible than that of the defendant. Will the Government inform this Council of the level in the onus of proof adopted by the Complaints Against Police Office (CAPO) to determine whether criminal proceedings or disciplinary action should be instituted? If

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CAPO continues to operate under the present system, will the Secretary expect similar cases of civil proceedings to increase tremendously, which would indirectly replace CAPO's duty to investigate by court proceedings and cause even greater losses to the public?

PRESIDENT: Have you understood the question, Secretary?

SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, I did not entirely understand the question but what I think the answer is this. When Complaints Against Police Office (CAPO) considers whether criminal proceedings should be instituted, it obviously applies the onus of proof appropriate to criminal proceedings. The civil proceedings have nothing to do with CAPO, but the disciplinary proceedings which also came out of the CAPO investigation would not require the same onus of proof as for criminal proceedings.

MR JAMES TO (in Cantonese): There is no point in over-criticizing CAPO if it still requires the onus of proof to be "beyond reasonable doubt" when deciding whether to institute criminal proceedings. However, if members of the public cannot have justice done through CAPO, would the Secretary envisage that many would follow the example of this case and institute civil proceedings, hence replacing CAPO with the courts for the administration of justice? This is the question which the Secretary has not addressed.

SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, I would not envisage that. Of course one can never be sure that civil proceedings will not result in any case of this nature, or that a complaint will not be pursued by way of civil proceedings. That is up to the individual complainant to decide. I think all I can say is that past experience does not suggest that we get a very large number of cases of this type. They are very exceptional and I do not expect that to change in the future.

MS ANNA WU: Could the Secretary indicate whether the police investigated the claims of assault and detention without cause and what was the consequence of those investigations? The Secretary also mentioned that procedures were not followed by the three officers concerned. Could the Secretary indicate the details of these procedures which were not followed?

SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, I am not sure, I am afraid, what Ms WU meant by the consequence of the investigation. The result of the investigation was the conclusion that there was not sufficient evidence to take criminal proceedings.

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As regards the second part of the question, the three policemen were found guilty under disciplinary proceedings for contravening police orders: Firstly, for failing to deliver a person taken into custody, into the custody of the officer-in-charge of the station; secondly, for carrying out an investigation without the prior authority of a senior officer and thirdly, for failure to make adequate notebook entries regarding the exercise of their powers in this case.

PRESIDENT: Ms WU, not answered?

MS ANNA WU: Not answered, Mr President. I wonder if the Secretary could specifically indicate whether the result of the investigation indicated that there was assault and that there was detention without cause, irrespective of the criminal burden please?

SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: No, Mr President, I am afraid I cannot comment on that. All I know is that the conclusion was that there was insufficient evidence to take a criminal case.

Ban on Sale of Animal Parts of Endangered Species

3. MR PETER WONG asked: In regard to the curb on the sale of animal parts of endangered species for medical and health purposes, will the Administration inform this Council of the progress made by the Fauna Conservation Section of the Agriculture and Fisheries Department and the current enforcement measures taken by various agencies?

SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES: Mr President, the Animals and Plants (Protection of Endangered Species) Ordinance provides that no person shall import, export or possess any scheduled species, or parts and derivatives of such species, except under and in accordance with a licence issued by the Director of Agriculture and Fisheries.

Special provisions apply to the products of some highly endangered species such as rhinoceroses and tigers. In practice, no licences are issued for the import, export or possession of medicines containing, or claiming to contain rhinoceros or tiger ingredients. The effect is to ban these items from international trade and domestic sale.

The Ordinance also controls the import, export and possession of bear gall bladder, bear bile and bear bile powder originating from any species of bear.

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Enforcement of these controls is undertaken by the Agriculture and Fisheries Department, the Customs and Excise Department and the Royal Hong Kong Police Force.

The Agriculture and Fisheries Department's enforcement team carries out undercover checks of traditional medicine shops to suppress and deter the illegal sale of banned items. Customs and Excise officers check shipments at various points of entry and exit. The Royal Hong Kong Police Force investigate any possible organized crime that might be involved in such illegal trade. They participate in operations with the Agriculture and Fisheries Department and provide assistance in investigative techniques.

The enforcement effort is co-ordinated by an Endangered Species Protection Liaison Group consisting of members of all three departments. During the past 12 months, the Group has directed a vigorous programme of over 3 300 inspections of traditional medicine shops. 387 such shops have been raided under search warrants, resulting in 230 prosecutions.

I believe that the message is now getting through clearly to retailers and their suppliers that it is not worth dealing in products even claiming to contain rhino horn and tiger bone. This message was reinforced last week when I introduced a bill to increase the maximum penalties for such offences to a fine of $5 million and imprisonment for two years.

Mr President, I believe that significant progress is being made in the battle against illegal trade in endangered species. We intend to maintain the momentum of enforcement and increase our efforts to persuade the public away from consumption of products containing endangered species.

MR PETER WONG: Mr President, can the Secretary inform us whether the Hong Kong Government has filed the annual report to the United Nations as required under the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora, giving an up-to-date report on the adherence to the various undertakings on trade in animal parts?

SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES: Mr President, as regards the process of filing of Hong Kong's report, because we are at this stage party to the Convention through the United Kingdom, this is done through the United Kingdom and I confirm that we have already filed that report.

MRS PEGGY LAM (in Cantonese): Mr President, will the Secretary inform this Council how many people have been prosecuted for violating the Aminals and Plants (Protection of Endangered Species) Ordinance in the past three years and how many of them have been convicted?

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SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES (in Cantonese): Mr President, I do not have the figures but I can report to this Council that the number of prosecutions instituted in 1992, 1993 and in 1994 so far. There were 153 cases in 1992; 117 in 1993 and 519 so far this year.

REV FUNG CHI-WOOD (in Cantonese): Mr President, judging from the number of prosecutions instituted, the problem in question is very serious. I wish to know if the Government, apart from substantially increasing the maximum penalties, has taken any other concrete measures to step up law enforcement?

SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES (in Cantonese): Mr President, apart from law enforcement, publicity work and education are the two major areas to which the Government has also committed itself. Two categories of endangered species related products are available at present in the market. The first one is for medicinal purposes. The main thrust of our publicity programme is to propagate as far as possible the medicines which practitioners of traditional Chinese medicine (TCM) have discovered as alternatives to those medicines which contain rhinoceros or tiger ingredients. The alternatives are equally effective medicines but contain no ingredients derived from endangered species. We hope that by then the public will not crave for medicines which contain rhinoceros or tiger ingredients. The other one is for food consumption purposes. Many people still have the misconception that consumption of certain parts of endangered species would achieve special effects for the body, in particular when eating wild game or consuming tonic substances. It would be a long-term programme since it takes time to change gradually and subtly long-standing habits and beliefs. Our work will start with the schools. In addition, we will also make use of television and other means to foster in the public the concept that the consumption of parts of endangered species may not necessarily be beneficial to our health.

MR MAN SAI-CHEONG (in Cantonese): Mr President, as the Secretary mentioned in his reply that sale of products claiming to contain rhinoceros or tiger ingredients were prohibited in Hong Kong, I wish to know if the Government has encountered any objection from the TCM profession or experienced any other difficulties when enforcing the law in the past few years. All the more, I would like to know whether the Administration is equipped with sufficient resources and manpower to conduct scientific identification processes upon such ingredients, for example, to check if the tiger bones are genuine. If the answer is negative, will the Government be prepared to inject more resources into the conduct of academic research in this area?

SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES (in Cantonese): Mr President, the TCM profession lends its unreserved support to the Government's efforts in

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protecting endangered species. As I have just said, the practitioners have taken some actions of their own accord, for example, they have identified over 20 types of Chinese medicines which possess the same curative power as that of rhino horn. Therefore, what they are doing is complementary to our policies. As to the identification processes, the issue is two-fold. If the medicines concerned really involve parts of tigers or rhinoceroses like tiger bones, the zoologists can tell if they are genuine ones. Nevertheless, those seized from the market recently are all fakes. On the other hand, if we were to tell whether certain medicine really contain rhinoceros and tiger ingredients, sophisticated identification processes would be required. According to my colleagues, apparatuses are used in the identification process, but even the most sophisticated apparatus would find it very difficult to prove that the medicine concerned really contains parts of a tiger or rhinoceros.

MR LAU CHIN-SHEK (in Cantonese): Mr President, the Secretary has said in his reply that in a programme of over 3 300 inspections of traditional Chinese medicine shops, 387 such shops were raided and 230 prosecutions were instituted subsequently. Apart from such traditional Chinese medicine shops, how many suppliers have also been prosecuted and what penalties were imposed upon them eventually? Thank you, Mr President.

SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES (in Cantonese): Mr President, I was talking about prosecutions against shops in my reply. The Agriculture and Fisheries Department, the Customs and Excise Department and the Royal Hong Kong Police Force have also taken actions to tackle the problem of importing any commodities claiming to contain tiger or rhinoceros ingredients. I do not have the information on the suppliers with me today, but in 1994, for example, the Agriculture and Fisheries Department has inspected, in addition to TCM shops, some pet shops or TCM counters in large department stores. The number of inspections made is therefore much greater than the 387 mentioned in my reply. Since 1994, the three departments concerned have so far inspected 4 000 different places selling these products. If you permit, I will provide the Honourable LAU Chin-shek with information concerning suppliers in a written reply. (Annex II)

MISS EMILY LAU (in Cantonese): Mr President, the Secretary has just said that publicity work is needed to provide the public with the correct idea concerning the consumption of endangered species since some people believe that they could benefit from the consumption of certain parts of these endangered species. Will the Secretary inform this Council whether scientific findings are available to prove that the consumption of certain parts of such endangered species is totally devoid of benefits.

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SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES (in Cantonese): Mr President, my answer is no. However, many well experienced practitioners of TCM have expressed a lot of opinion in this respect. Take rhinoceroses as an example, as I have quoted earlier, they have found over 20 types of medicines which possess the same curative power. If the Member is really interested in knowing which types of food are conducive to health, I think the best way is for them to consult the professionals in that field.

Prevention of Prostitution by Female Visitors

4. MRS SELINA CHOW asked (in Cantonese): Mr President, recently quite a number of females from places outside Guangdong, holding transit visas for a stopover in the territory on their way to Thailand, have been able to enter the territory and have managed to stay behind and engage in prostitution activities. In view of this, will the Government inform this Council whether consideration will be given to stepping up measures to combat these activities, such as blacklisting them and preventing them from visiting the territory again to engage in prostitution activities, similar to the measures adopted to combat the problem of females from the South East Asian region coming to the territory to prostitute?

SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, we are aware that some visitors to Hong Kong engage in prostitution. We have stepped up measures to combat the problem.

Illegal immigrants and foreign visitors, including transit visitors from China, found working in vice establishments or working as prostitutes are prosecuted for illegally remaining in Hong Kong or for breach of their conditions of stay.

The police and the Immigration Department will continue to mount operations against these activities.

Visitors (including transit visitors from China) who have previously abused their conditions of stay in Hong Kong are subject to special scrutiny on future entry into Hong Kong. They may be refused entry if there is good reason to believe that they are likely to breach their conditions of stay.

MRS SELINA CHOW (in Cantonese): Mr President, will the Secretary for Security inform this Council how many females coming from China to engage in prostitution in Hong Kong have been arrested during the past three years? Is it possible to disclose the relevant figures here? Will the Secretary also inform this Council whether these activities are carried out under the protection of the triads?

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SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, I do not think that we have available a breakdown for the past three years specifically relating to visitors from China, but perhaps I can give some statistics that indicate the extent of the problem. In 1992, just over 1 000 — both illegal immigrants and foreign visitors to Hong Kong — that is, prostitutes — were arrested here. In 1993, the number was approximately 1 900, and in the first nine months of 1994, the number has been 1 500. I do, for a much shorter period, have a breakdown which I think may help Mrs CHOW. In the four months between June and September this year, 394 female visitors involved in prostitution were arrested and prosecutions were taken against them; of these, 100 were transit visitors from China, 52 were visitors from China holding two-way permits, and the remaining 225 were visitors from other countries.

MRS SELINA CHOW: The second half of the question about triad backing?

SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Yes, we do believe that organized crime and triads are probably behind at least some of this vice activity.

MRS ELSIE TU: Mr President, the last paragraph says that visitors who have previously abused their conditions of stay are subject to special scrutiny. Are the immigration officers given information and guidance as to how to carry out the scrutiny? Are they given the information necessary to prevent them from confronting and affronting perfectly respectable ladies from the Philippines? I have heard of them just being asked bluntly, "Are you a prostitute?"

SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, yes. Certainly, immigration officers are carefully trained in their duties. Obviously, in interrogating or questioning people who are suspected of entering Hong Kong for these purposes, there is bound to be the possibility of giving offence to perfectly innocent and bona fide visitors to Hong Kong. All I can say is that the Immigration Department does take great care to try to conduct its questioning tactfully and without giving offence.

MR FREDERICK FUNG (in Cantonese): Mr President, based on the information given by the Secretary for Security in his reply on the number of prosecutions being taken during the past two years and the first nine months of this year, the situation is quite serious. Has the Secretary considered increasing the manpower of the police or stepping up operations so as to enhance the deterrent effect?

SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, the police and the Immigration Department both devote, really, considerable resources to this problem and they

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will continue. We are intending, next year, to increase the resources of the Immigration Department generally for investigation into immigration offences, including these sorts of offences.

MR JIMMY McGREGOR: Mr President, can the Secretary comment on the recent disclosure by a British lady of considerable business acumen whose activities seem to be both athletic and illegal? Is the running of a brothel a permitted industry? And if not, will the lady concerned be deported?

PRESIDENT: I do not know if there is a case pending, because if there is, that question would be out of order.

SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, I have no information on that case. It is, I think, quite possible that the police are still looking at that particular case but I have no information on it.

MR WONG WAI-YIN (in Cantonese): Mr President, the Secretary for Security has just mentioned that there are signs indicating that prostitution involving transit visitors in Hong Kong is controlled by triads. Other than arresting females who have been found engaged in prostitution as mentioned by the Secretary, does the Government have any records showing that these triad societies were cracked down? Since triad societies are involved in this problem, that means they may have made arrangements for these women to come to Hong Kong systematically. Has the Police Force in Hong Kong ever had any discussion and co operation with the public security organs in China in respect of this problem? Thank you, Mr President.

SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, I think what I can say is that the police action is taken not merely against foreign visitors who are working as prostitutes in Hong Kong. Police action is targeted much more against the operators of vice establishments — those who are organizing and controlling this sort of activity. Specifically, the Regional and the District Vice Squads in the Police Force are targeted very much against this sort of activity and they do, where necessary, co-operate with other law enforcement agencies, including the law enforcement agencies in China.

MR EDWARD HO: Mr President, my question has been asked. Thank you.

MR LAU CHIN-SHEK (in Cantonese): Thank you, Mr President, I want to follow up the question raised by Mr WONG Wai-yin just now. As regards the problem of female transit visitors from China being controlled by triad societies

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to engage in prostitution, how many triad members were prosecuted due to involvement in this sort of activity over the past year? How many of them were convicted? Thank you, Mr President.

SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, I do not have that information available. I will give Mr LAU a written reply. (Annex III)

MR JAMES TO (in Cantonese): Mr President, in paragraph two of the main reply, the Secretary for Security has pointed out that those females found to be involved in prostitution will be prosecuted for breach of their conditions of stay. I think the penalties for such offences would be quite light. Will such penalty have any deterrent effect? And to what extent does the Secretary for Security expect that the Organized and Serious Crimes Bill, which has just passed, to have effect in combating these triad groups and criminal syndicates?

SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, I do not think that the penalties are necessarily that low. The penalties, I think, for these two offences include imprisonment for two or three years as a maximum penalty.

As regards the second part of the question, I would not think that the Organized and Serious Crimes Bill would be used against the prostitutes, against the visitors themselves. But one would certainly hope and expect that the powers in that Bill could be used against the triads and the criminal syndicates who are organizing and controlling this sort of activity.

Check on Imported Contaminated Vegetables

5. MR TIK CHI-YUEN asked (in Cantonese): Recently there have been a number of acute food poisoning incidents in the territory arising from the consumption of contaminated vegetables. As a large portion of the vegetables is imported from the mainland, will the Government inform this Council:-

(a) of the average daily number of vegetable samples examined by the Department of Health at the Man Kam To border checkpoint, and what is the percentage of the samples examined out of all imported vegetables;

(b) of the number of officers responsible for conducting spot checks at the boarder at present; and whether there are plans to increase the manpower for these duties;

(c) of the respective percentages of vegetables found to be contaminated out of the samples examined by the Department of Health in each of the past three years; and

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(d) what are the measures adopted by the Government to curb the importation of contaminated vegetables through illegal means?

SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr President, effective control over pesticide-contaminated vegetables depends on a combination of measures at source, upon import, at sales outlets and in the kitchen. To safeguard public health, the Government co ordinates action through the Department of Health to monitor the hygiene of vegetables.

About 50% of the fresh leafy vegetables consumed locally come from China, 25% are local produce and the rest are imported from other countries. The Department of Health has in place at the border a well-tested monitoring system to check the quality of imported vegetables. In 1994, an average of 70 quick tests are performed daily at the Man Kam To Checkpoint.

An average of 8.5 samples per day are collected from vehicles for full laboratory tests for use as evidence in case of prosecution or to support destruction of vegetables. The percentage of vegetable samples found to be contaminated after full laboratory tests is 0.35% for the first 10 months of 1994. This represents a substantial improvement over 1.75% in 1992 and 0.56% in 1993.

At present, there are two shifts of six health inspectors stationed at Man Kam To, plus other supporting staff. The number of vehicles subject to sampling represents roughly 30% of the total number of vehicles passing through. During pesticide contamination outbreaks, additional staff are quickly deployed and the number of vehicles sampled increased.

Apart from regular checks, there are frequent exchanges of information and meetings between the Department of Health and the Guangdong and Shenzhen Import and Export Commodity Inspection Bureau to control the problem at source. This has led to a tagging system for vegetable produce from farms approved by the Commodity Inspection Bureau. These imports are also issued with pesticide declaration forms.

In addition to these random checks at the border, the Department of Health operates a surveillance programme at both wholesale and retail vegetable markets. There is also regular publicity to advise members of the public not to patronize illegal hawkers and to follow good food handling practices, such as thorough soaking and washing of vegetables.

In co-operation with the Shenzhen authorities, we will continue to review control strategies in order to reduce the risk of further outbreaks.

MR TIK CHI-YUEN (in Cantonese): Mr President, it is pointed out in the Government's reply that the Government and the Shenzhen authorities have

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agreed on a tagging system for approved farms and the issuance of pesticide declaration forms to these farms. However, it is reported that vegetables from these approved farms may also be contaminated. Does the Government conduct spot checks on those tagged vegetables? Has any of the samples of tagged vegetables examined been found to be contaminated? If there are samples found to be contaminated, does it mean that the Government should review the tagging system?

SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: The Administration maintains regular contacts with the Chinese health authorities on issues of mutual concern and the Member has correctly mentioned that this has led to a system of identifying-tags and pesticide declaration forms. The Shenzhen Commodity Inspection Bureau also maintains a register of farms approved for export which it inspects regularly. Since the outbreak, I understand that the Chinese authorities have stepped up their controls.

Concerning the presence of pesticide-contaminated vegetables from farms which have this tagging system and pesticide declaration forms, I wish to emphasize that both these measures are a mechanism of control and the success of this control depends on a combination of factors. The most important factor is that there is adequate monitoring at the source of supply. In this regard, there is on-going dialogue with the Chinese authorities and any suggestions for improvement will be thoroughly discussed. In the past, we have had instances where such fresh vegetables have been found to be contaminated with pesticide.

DR LAM KUI-CHUN: Mr President, on the question of contaminated tagged vegetables, I understand — I have just been told — that vegetables that are declared free from contamination with pesticides have fairly frequently been found to be contaminated. Would the Secretary for Health and Welfare provide this Council with some objective figures to show that the tagging system does indeed provide good protection to the consumers in Hong Kong? And would the Secretary further inform this Council whether adequate penalties are available to deter relapses, of the farmers concerned, into the same practice in the future?

SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Yes, I do not have the specific figures requested by the Honourable Member but it is correct to say that the most important control measure is to attack the problem at source. I might inform Members of a new development which has started only last week. This concerns what is called an Accreditation Farm Scheme. This started on 11 November, and Members may have read about this in the press. Through this accreditation scheme, both local farms and farms across the border which produce safe vegetables are accorded an accreditation which means that they have produced vegetables which are of a safe standard. Vegetable farms accorded this accreditation adopt very good horticultural practices and they

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have also allowed the Vegetable Marketing Organization to check the pesticide residue on their vegetables. These are safe premium vegetables and our intention is to extend this accreditation scheme to farms across the border, many of which are owned by Hong Kong farmers but operated across the border. And there is, at the moment, a lot of discussions and dialogue going on as to how this can be done.

In the future, we hope that we can entrust this work to a Federation of Vegetable Marketing Co-operative Societies, which will then be monitoring and accrediting agents for farms over the border. When this happens, I am sure that the quality of the vegetables imported to Hong Kong will be greatly improved.

MR FRED LI (in Cantonese): Mr President, I think the Secretary for Health and Welfare will agree that the most effective way to eliminate contaminated vegetables is to direct efforts at the source of supply, instead of the market or the wholesalers. But the situation is that in spite of the introduction of the tagging system or the pesticide declaration forms, vegetables are still found to be contaminated. Therefore, the only way to tackle this problem is that the Department of Health should put in more efforts to conduct inspections on imported vegetables. At present, only 30% of the vehicles entering through Man Kam To are inspected. In view of the fact that the efforts to eliminate contaiminated vegetables at the source of supply is unsuccessful, will the Secretary for Health and Welfare inform this Council whether the Department of Health will consider deploying additional staff to inspect 100% of the vehicles entering the territory and stop those which are blacklisted from entering Hong Kong?

SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Yes, this is a problem. It happens to be a seasonal problem. At this time each year, I think there is normally concern about pesticide contaminated vegetables. We have planned to construct a permanent Food Control Office at Man Kam To and I hope this will be ready by the end of 1995. Upon the completion of this control office, all food vehicles will be inspected on entering the territory and an additional team of 10 health inspectors, together with other supporting staff, will be stationed at the office. By then, we should have further strengthened our inspection and testing effort. The public health risk would then be considerably reduced as long as there is adequate control at source and checking at the border.

I must emphasize that the most important point is that suppliers must follow good agricultural practice as regards the use of pesticides. But on our side, we will continue our public education efforts and also maintain on-going dialogue with the relevant authorities across the border.

REV FUNG CHI-WOOD (in Cantonese): Mr President, there was a panic among the public about a month ago when Hong Kong was affected by

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contaminated vegetables. For some time, we heard of people being infected by contaminated vegetables nearly everyday. I had enquired the Department of Health earlier and learned that the number of people being infected by contaminated vegetables this year was greater than that of the same period last year. I agree that one of the effective measures is to strengthen efforts in inspection at the border. It is pointed out by the Secretary for Health and Welfare in her reply that there are two shifts of six persons each at present. When will additional staff be deployed? Why can we not increase the manpower further prior to the completion of the Food Control Office by the end of next year so that more vehicles can be inspected?

SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: At the moment there are two shifts of six health inspectors plus other supporting staff at Man Kam To. This number can be flexibly deployed whenever there is an outbreak of pesticide contamination and in the case of the outbreak during the past month or so, we have deployed additional staff very quickly to check more vehicles. So the numbers are not static, we can deploy staff very flexibly.

MR CHEUNG MAN-KWONG (in Cantonese): Mr President, my question focuses on penalty. No matter how stringent the inspection is conducted in order to identify contaminated vegetables, it can only be done on a random basis. That means many contaminated vegetables may slip by unnoticed and these vegetables will then be brought onto the market. The public can only test these vegetables with their stomachs. Will the Government inform this Council how can this recurrent problem of contaminated vegetables be solved permanently? For instance, has the Government ever made a formal request to the Guangdong Provincial Government asking them to impose severe purnishment on those approved farms which have exported contaminated vegetables to Hong Kong? Or will the Government make such a request? And will the Government consider asking the Guangdong Provincial Government to revoke the status of an approved farm to export vegetables to Hong Kong in the event of repeated violations? Has the Guangdong Provincial Government made any response and adopted punitive measures accordingly?

SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr President, at the moment the maximum penalty is a fine of $25,000 and six months' imprisonment. As for other types of penalties, the other penalty is also a financial one. I would like to give some figures. From the beginning of the present outbreak on 19 October until 11 November, we have intercepted 1 519 vehicles, conducted 2 199 quick tests, and seized for disposal 13 810 kg of vegetables. This involves a considerable financial loss to the importers of the vegetables.

As for dialogue and liaison with our counterparts across the border, they go on very frequently and the points raised by the Honourable Member will

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continue to be one of the issues that we will be discussing with the health authorities across the border.

MR MICHAEL HO (in Cantonese): Mr President, the outbreaks of contaminated vegetables have been going on for years and we have had discussions over this issue for a very long time. Yet, the problem has not been solved. According to the reply given by the Secretary for Health and Welfare just now, additional manpower for more stringent inspection is possible after the completion of the Food Control Office, but that means contaminated vegetables will continue to exist in Shenzhen and be allowed to enter the territory through Shenzhen. We can actually strengthen our efforts in inspection in order to ensure that contaminated vegetables will not be brought into the urban areas. Will the Government inform this Council whether the Administration will consider implementing more specific measures to stamp out these contaminated vegetables at source? For instance, will the Administration strengthen its efforts in prosecuting vegetable importers so that the farms and suppliers concerned will be compelled to abandon these pesticides in view of the losses they are going to suffer in business?

SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Yes, I agree with the Honourable Member that one of the most effective measures is to prosecute the offenders who import the vegetables and in this way the message will be clearly conveyed to their farms, either across the border or in Hong Kong. But I think we need to see this in perspective. As I mentioned in my main reply, the percentage of vegetable samples found to be contaminated after full tests is 0.35% for the first 10 months of 1994.

Future Development of the Hotel Industry

6. MR MOSES CHENG asked (in Cantonese): Mr President, as the completion of the new airport will result in a substantial increase in the number of overseas visitors coming to the territory, will the Government inform this Council:

(a) of the number of applications being processed by the Government which involve the demolition of hotels to make way for the building of commercial buildings;

(b) of the hotels referred to in (a) above, what is the number of hotel rooms involved;

(c) whether the Government envisages a shortage of hotel rooms in the next five years;

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(d) whether any measures will be adopted by the Government to encourage investment in the hotel industry with a view to promoting the development of tourism in the territory; if so, what measures are being or will be adopted; and

(e) whether the Government will consider allocating more land restricted to hotel usage only, so as to encourage private developers to build new hotels?

SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES (in Cantonese): Mr President, at the end of 1993, Hong Kong had approximately 34 000 hotel rooms. During 1994, five hotels with a total of 1 250 rooms are known to have closed down. In addition, the Buildings Department is currently processing two applications for conversion of hotel to commercial use. If approved, these conversions will result in a further reduction of some 1 000 rooms. However, during the next four years, four new hotels are scheduled to come on stream and a number of existing hotels are being extended. The new and extended hotels will provide a total of 4 200 new rooms, including one which will have 2 400 rooms on its own.

Current forecasts of visitor arrivals, compiled by the Hong Kong Tourist Association, suggest that there may be some tightness in the supply of medium tariff hotel rooms in the next five years, particularly at periods of peak demand. In order to alleviate the pressure, the Planning Department has incorporated specific requirements for hotel development in the commercial usage of the Comprehensive Development Areas on the Central and West Kowloon Reclamations and of the Hung Hom Bay Reclamation. The construction of hotels in these areas will be carried out jointly with the construction of the Airport Railway by the Mass Transit Railway corporation. This is expected to provide some 4 700 additional hotel rooms upon the completion of the project. Besides, there will also be commercial sites on the Hung Hom Reclamation and a number of hotels can be built there. New sites have been reserved on the Airport Island at Chek Lap Kok and in Tung Chung New Town for the construction of a number of hotels, which would yield some 2 900 rooms.

The Hong Kong Tourist Association, in conjunction with the Planning Department, has commissioned consultants to undertake a comprehensive study to assess the prospects for future development of the tourism industry in Hong Kong. Amongst other things the consultants will be tasked to review projections of the demand and supply of hotel rooms, to decide whether shortages of hotel accommodation are likely to pose a constraint on tourism growth and, if so, to advise the Government to take a diversity of measures to prevent a significant mis-match between supply and demand of hotel rooms.

The consultants are due to submit their findings and recommendations of their study on the hotel accommodation situation before the end of the year. The Administration will give careful consideration to any recommendations

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made by the consultants on the possible need to introduce measures to stimulate hotel development, including suggestions which may be put forward recommending changes to current land allocation policy so as to ensure that forecast demand is met.

MR MOSES CHENG (in Cantonese): Mr President, the Administration, in its reply, did not mention any positive measures it would adopt to encourage investment in hotel development. Will the Administration inform this Council whether it will consider adjusting the hotel plot ratio limit from 12 times to 15 times, like that of the office plot ratio, so as to encourage more hotel development?

SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES: Mr President, may I defer to my colleague, the Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands?

SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS (in Cantonese): Mr President, the Administration has in fact relaxed the plot ratio to a certain extent so as to stimulate or encourage hotel investment. The existing practice is that, under the Buildings Ordinance, hotel developers could enjoy some real term privileges with regard to plot ratio. For example, the basement and parking area will not be included in the overall plot ratio, additional plot ratio might even be awarded for providing parking facilities. This practice has been put in place and many developers are following such to develop their hotels. However, as to whether we should continue to follow this practice or institutionalize such practice, it would be considered thoroughly by the Government upon the completion of the study mentioned by the Secretary.

MR MARTIN BARROW: Mr President, could the Secretary or his colleague clarify the Planning Department's special requirements for hotels on new reclamations? Is this, in effect, a zoning system whereby developers can only bid for hotels in certain areas? And, can the Government not also agree to zone sites which are now available, given that hotels on the reclamation sites will not be available until around the year 2000 or beyond?

SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS: Mr President, the zoning referred to in my colleague's reply, in relation to Comprehensive Development Areas (CDA), are those areas which have been specially earmarked by the Town Planning Board to include the building of hotels within those sites. So the numbers which have been quoted by my colleague, the Secretary for Economic Services, for hotel development will happen in those CDA zones.

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As to the question of whether we should zone other sites, other than CDA, to allow the development of hotels, we have to bear in mind that under the existing system, all zones earmarked for commercial or commercial/residential development can be used for hotel development where the developers see that there is a profit to be gained. So the system we are now using allows developers to choose whether to build offices or hotels or other developments, and I believe they have responded in the past to the market demand very well, and I suppose they will continue to do so.

MR MARTIN BARROW: I appreciate it has worked well in the past but what I am concerned about is the future. Will the zoning arrangements be changed so that developers will only be able to bid on the basis of hotels and not general commercial development? That, I think, is the priority.

SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS: Mr President, whether we should change the system into one which we should earmark specific sites for hotel development, we intend to await the recommendations of the consultants' report. We have to bear in mind that sites zoned for hotel development will not be available for other uses, for example, offices, and we know in fact that in some areas, such as Central, hotels and offices are in equal demand.

MR HOWARD YOUNG (in Cantonese): Mr President, I met two travellers at London airport. They told me that they came to Hong Kong to stage an exhibition, but owing to insufficient hotel rooms, they were forced to stage the exhibition in one hotel and stay at another. The Administration's reply pointed out that five hotels with a total of 1 250 rooms were demolished. If more hotels were to be demolished, there will be a further reduction of 1 000 rooms, that means a total loss of over 2 000 rooms. If 4 200 new rooms will be provided by the new hotels, the net increase will be less than 2 000, which represents a 6% increase on top of the existing supply, yet the number of visitors is increasing by 6% a year. Has the Administration taken into consideration the possibility that if "plot ratio" is not employed to encourage hotel development, the supply of hotel rooms would fall short of demand in the coming years?

SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES (in Cantonese): Mr President, other than the 4 200 rooms to be provided by new hotels, my reply also mentioned that preparation works for new hotel development were underway on the Airport Island at Chek Lap Kok, in Tung Chung New Town, as well as on the Hung Hom Bay Reclamation and West Kowloon Reclamations. The total number of hotel rooms should far exceed 4 200, a figure which has been mentioned earlier on, since there will be an increase of at least 3 000 rooms. Nevertheless, my colleagues will monitor closely the changes in these figures in the coming years. As tourism is an essential component of Hong Kong's

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economy, I can assure Members that if we have to make any new decisions in this respect, we will certainly be prompt in making rectifications.

PRESIDENT: Mr YOUNG, not answered?

MR HOWARD YOUNG (in Cantonese): Mr President, just now I have only referred to paragraph one of the reply but not the later stage developments, since the construction works of the new airport would only take place in the later stage which lies beyond 1997. The actual increase mentioned in the first paragraph of the reply is only 2 000 odd rooms. This is the picture before 1997 and it represents 6% of the total capacity. However, the present occupancy rate is already over 80% and it is very easy for the rate to reach 100% before 1997 as there are still three to four years to go. If the question is confined to paragraph one of the reply, has the Secretary considered it possible that there will be a shortage of hotel rooms in the coming years?

SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES (in Cantonese): Mr President, more hotel rooms will be available these years. Although there might be a tight supply in the short run, it should be under control, especially when the occupancy rate is still below 90% and spare capacity is still available as mentioned by Mr YOUNG just now. In addition, we have to take into consideration the preferences of the visitors. For some hotels, the supply of rooms is a bit tight in the meantime, the medium tariff ones I have just mentioned is one example, but other hotels will still have vacant rooms. With the development of the Pearl River Delta, hotels and other facilities across the border may play a complementary role in the future.

MR EDWARD HO (in Cantonese): Mr President, my question is similar to that raised by Mr Moses CHENG. It concerns the possibility for commercial sites to be used to build either hotels or offices. Under the Buildings Ordinance, since hotels are for residential use, its plot ratio is much lower than that of office buildings. Will the Administration consider treating hotel accommodation as for non-residential use under the Buildings Ordinance, so as to encourage more hotel development?

SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS (in Cantonese): Mr President, as I have just mentioned, even though the existing plot ratio of hotels is lower than that of office buildings, hotel development could in fact enjoy additional plot ratio in many cases, which is acceptable under the Buildings Ordinance. As such, although the nominal plot ratio for hotels is 12 times, which is much lower than the 15 times enjoyed by office buildings, in reality, many hotels can enjoy a plot ratio of almost 15 times. Also, as I have just explained, this might be one of the recommendations to be made by the

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 16 November 1994 904

consultants. The consultancy report will be ready around the end of the year, if such recommendation is being made then, we will certainly give careful consideration to it.

MR HENRY TANG (in Cantonese): Mr President, the Secretary mentioned just now in his reply that the hotel plot ratio is almost but not exactly 15 times. To be fair, a hotel is also a commercial institution, so on this same piece of land zoned for commercial use, why cannot hotels with a 15 times plot ratio be allowed to be built? Why does hotel development have to limit its plot ratio to less than 15 times, while office buildings can have a plot ratio of 15 times?

SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS (in Cantonese): Mr President, this is because of the restrictions imposed by the existing Buildings Ordinance. Under this Ordinance, the plot ratio of office buildings is higher than that of hotels and this system has been implemented for a long time. It has then been considered that hotels and residential buildings were of a similar nature since both could accommodate many dwellers, and as such, the restriction on plot ratio was set tighter. Nevertheless, I will take Members' advice and address this issue from a new point of view.

WRITTEN ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS

Elderly Residents of "Caged Homes"

7. MR JIMMY McGREGOR asked (in Chinese): Will the Government inform this Council of the following:

(a) how many elderly persons are at present living in what has been described as "caged homes" and what action has been taken by the Government to improve the situation in the last three years; and

(b) whether there is any policy or programme to provide alternative accommodation for those elderly persons who have lived in such conditions over a considerable time; if so, how effective such policy or programme has been and how many "caged" people have been rehoused in the last three years?

SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS: Mr President, my reply is as follows:

(a) the number of elderly persons (aged 60 and above) at present living in what has been described as "caged homes" is estimated at 1 200. In the last three years, officers of the Social Welfare Department paid half-yearly visits to bedspace apartment lodgers to offer

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 16 November 1994 905

welfare assistance, including financial assistance, institutional care, compassionate rehousing, employment service and counselling, to those eligible. Such visits are continuing and will continue. The City and New Territories Administration established 17 singleton hostels which offer rehousing to some of the bedspace apartment lodgers. The Bedspace Apartments Ordinance was enacted in April 1994 to provide for a licensing scheme to regulate the fire and building safety of bedspace apartments. Upon full implementation of the licensing scheme, lodgers will live in bedspace apartments which meet the safety standards; and

(b) as pointed out under (a) above, the Social Welfare Department has been assisting elderly bedspace apartment lodgers with institutional care and compassionate rehousing. Under the Elderly Priority Scheme, persons aged 58 and above can apply for rehousing in public housing estates. Flats will usually be allocated within two years from the date of registration. Bedspace apartment lodgers can also apply for public housing through the general waiting list. Bedspace apartment lodgers aged below 60 can apply for admission into the singleton hostels of the City and New Territories Administration. These policies and programmes have been effective. In the last three years, about 650 "caged" people were rehoused.

Telephone Banking Services

8. DR HUANG CHEN-YA asked (in Chinese): Regarding the telephone banking services provided by banks, will the Government inform this Council:

(a) of the number of banks which are currently providing such services;

(b) what safeguards are in place to protect clients against losses from withdrawals which are either without the client's authorization or mishandled by the banks;

(c) what guidelines or monitoring mechanism are available to ensure that the necessary degree of prudence and professionalism is exercised in providing such services; and

(d) whether legislation will be introduced by the Government to protect the consumers' rights in using such services?

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 16 November 1994 906 SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES: Mr President,

(a) There are currently 34 licensed banks offering some form of telephone banking services, which may include some or all of the following services:

(i) provision of information on account balances, exchange rates, deposit and lending rates;

(ii) transfer of funds between accounts of the same customer or to predesignated third party accounts;

(iii) renewal or disposal of time deposits upon maturity;

(iv) foreign exchange and investment product transactions; and

(v) payment of credit card, utility bills, and so on.

(b) Access to telephone banking services is mostly through a touch tone telephone. Input of a password is necessary before transactions are allowed. Such transactions are normally restricted to accounts of the customer himself or predesignated accounts and no cash withdrawal is allowed. Details of transactions are recorded with written confirmation subsequently made available to the customer.

As in the case of other banking services operated by passwords, the customer has a duty to keep his passwords confidential to prevent unauthorized access. At the same time, banks are expected to have in place adequate internal control to maintain security and integrity of their telephone banking services systems.

(c) There are no guidelines or monitoring mechanism specifically targeted at telephone banking services. It is not the practice of the banking supervisor to dictate how banks should conduct their business unless there are prudential concerns. So far, telephone banking services have not been a cause of concern.

(d) We do not see the need for specific legislation on telephone banking services.

Services Related to 24-hour Border Crossing

9. MRS MIRIAM LAU asked (in Chinese): In view of the introduction of 24-hour service at the Lok Ma Chau-Huang Gang border crossing point as from 3 November 1994 this year, will the Government inform this Council:

(a) whether, apart from increasing the manpower of the Customs and Excise Department and the Immigration Department, other

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 16 November 1994 907

measures will be taken to encourage more container drivers to use the crossing point between midnight and dawn; and

(b) whether special arrangements will be made at the container terminals to tie in with the new arrangement at the border crossing point?

SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT: Mr President, on average about 800 vehicles have been using the Lok Ma Chau border road crossing each night between the hours of 10.00 pm and 7.00 am, since it opened round the clock on 3 November 1994. This is about 50% of the throughput capacity of the two channels in use. It is a good start and should hopefully result in cross-border traffic being spread over a longer period each day.

The answers to the questions are as follows:

(a) The Port Development Board and the Transport Department are continuing their efforts to encourage more container vehicles to use the Lok Ma Chau Crossing at night, through their contacts with shippers, terminal operators, vehicle owners and drivers associations.

(b) The container terminals already operate on a 24-hour basis and have had no particular problems in coping with the additional traffic now being generated at night. The operators are, however, monitoring the situation closely and adjustments to their procedures will be considered if this proves necessary.

Salary Reduction of Polytechnic Staff cum District Board Members

10. MISS EMILY LAU asked (in Chinese): In view of the Hong Kong Polytechnic's recent decision to cut the salary of teaching staff who are members of District Boards, will the Government inform this Council whether it is aware of any other subsidized tertiary institutions which have taken similar measures to reduce the salary and fringe benefits of staff members who serve as members of District Boards or other tiers of representative government?

SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER: Mr President, the Administration is aware that the Hong Kong Polytechnic has recently published policy guidelines on staff engaging in public offices through election. However, the Polytechnic has not imposed a cut in salary across the board for those teaching staff who are elected to district boards.

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 16 November 1994 908

The guidelines serve to promulgate an existing requirement within the Polytechnic's employment contract for staff to obtain written consent from the Director for engaging in any remunerative activities. There are several options from which a staff member can choose when applying to the Director of the Polytechnic for consent if he/she is engaged in public offices through election. Under one of these options the staff concerned may apply to the Director for retention of the current employment status, but with the level of remuneration adjusted on a pro-rata basis depending on the proportion of time to be spent in the discharge of normal duties at the Polytechnic. Adjustment of salary for the staff concerned can be waived if the staff concerned contribute an acceptable amount of time to the Polytechnic and the Director, upon the recommendation of the Head of the Department, is satisfied that the quality of delivery of work of the Department will not be jeopardized.

The Administration is not aware of other tertiary institutions having adopted similar policy guidelines on staff engaging in public offices through election. However, all tertiary institutions have similar contractual provisions with respect to staff engaging in outside work or outside practice.

Air Pollution at Covered Transport Interchanges

11. MR FRED LI asked (in Chinese): In his reply to a written question on air pollution in Lam Tin Interchange on 26 January 1994, the Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands stated that environmental impact assessments of that area had been carried out. In response to another written question on 26 October 1994, he indicated that the study commissioned by the Environmental Protection Department (EPD) to examine the design and operational considerations for covered transport interchanges had been completed in May 1994. The study concluded that the mechanical ventilation systems in most covered bus interchanges, even when operating at maximum capacity, were unable to supply adequate fresh air to waiting passengers. In view of this, will the Government inform this Council:

(a) of the reason why the existing mechanical ventilation systems cannot solve the problem of air pollution in covered transport exchanges;

(b) it is understood the EPD has planned to set up enclosed waiting platforms in the transport interchange in either Lam Tin or Tsuen Wan next year on a trial basis and has already applied for funds from the Government for the project. What is the estimated amount required for this pilot scheme; and what is the estimated total amount of expenditure involved if the pilot scheme is to be extended to all covered bus terminals on the ground floor of commercial/residential buildings in the territory;

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 16 November 1994 909

(c) what other remedial measures will be implemented if the results of the pilot scheme turn out to be unsatisfactory; and

(d) as the pilot scheme will not be implemented till next year, what specific short-term measures will be put in place to solve the problem in the interim?

SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS: Mr President,

(a) When the mechanical ventilation systems in covered transport exchanges were designed, it was believed that they were adequate in ameliorating the air pollution problem in these interchanges. However, in a recent study, it was found that very high ventilation rates would be required to ensure that the air quality objectives at the waiting platforms could be met. The required ventilation rates are beyond the capacity of the existing systems.

(b) The pilot project will require $3,980,000. It is an 18-month project to study the various designs of ventilation systems for waiting platforms. We are still seeking funds for this project. The Administration will consider applying the successful design to other covered transport interchanges. An estimate of the total cost is not available because we have not yet decided on the design to be adopted.

(c) The Government is optimistic that one or more of the designs will be satisfactory. The main purpose of the study is to choose the most practical option and to collect technical data and details on the costs of the design.

(d) In the interim, we have advised transport companies to turn off engines of idle vehicles inside the transport interchanges. Property managers are also advised to operate the ventilation systems to full capacity during peak traffic hours whenever such is practicable. We hope the above measures would help alleviate the problem.

Consultation on Proposed Sewage Charges

12. REV FUNG CHI-WOOD asked (in Chinese): Regarding the public consultation exercise undertaken by the Government last year on the proposed charges for sewage services, will the Government inform this Council of the following:

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 16 November 1994 910

(a) of the submissions received from the public during the consultation period, how many are in support of the Government's proposed level of sewage charges; how many consider it too high and how many are in favour of no charges at all; and

(b) what are the reasons why the findings of the consultation exercise have not yet been disclosed after the expiry of the consultation period?

SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS: Mr President,

(a) During public consultation on sewage charges last year, the Government received 80 written submissions — 57 from organizations and 23 from members of the public. Apart from 14 submissions which were enquiries only, 60% of these submissions generally supported the polluter pays principle, the remaining were not in favour of a separate charge for sewage services. Only nine submissions asked for lower charges. From these submissions, it was apparent that there had been a misunderstanding that sewage charges would be fixed at 50% of water bills.

(b) The results of the public consultation exercise were set out in the Legislative Council Brief and in a press release issued on 11 January 1994.

Drug Abuse by Juveniles

13. MR JAMES TO asked (in Chinese): In view of the increasing number of youngsters being involved in drug offences in recent years, will the Government inform this Council:

(a) what recommendations will the Standing Committee on Young Offenders make to alleviate the problem; and

(b) whether consideration will be given to allocating more resources to voluntary agencies, including Gospel drug rehabilitation groups, in order to assist these organizations in their work of preventing youngsters from abusing drugs and treatment of young drug abusers, thus expanding the network of services provided by the Government in this area?

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 16 November 1994 911 SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President,

(a) The Standing Committee on Young Offenders will shortly consider this problem and the results of a research project conducted by the Social Sciences Research Centre of the University of Hong Kong on social causes of juvenile crime.

Vigorous action is already being taken to prevent youngsters from involvement in drug offences. The police target drug blackspots which young drug abusers frequent. They have also enhanced the school liaison network to identify drug problems in schools.

(b) Resources for the prevention and treatment of drug abuse among young people are allocated to several government departments and voluntary agencies. The level of allocations and the subventions to voluntary agencies are kept under review, and changes made as necessary in the light of the demand for the services provided. In addition, many voluntary agencies not receiving subventions are nevertheless helped in other ways: they are assisted with accommodation and supported in raising funds from charitable sources.

Traffic Offences by Diplomatic and Consular Corps

14. MR JIMMY McGREGOR asked: Will the Government inform this Council of:

(a) its policy towards members of foreign diplomatic and consular corps stationed in Hong Kong who may have consistently violated traffic regulations and who, thereby, have accumulated substantial fixed penalty fines for illegal parking and other traffic offences; and

(b) the number of such offenders and the countries they represent, together with cumulative totals of unpaid fines during the last three years?

SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT: Mr President,

(a) The waiver of unpaid fixed penalty fines is an act of courtesy extended to Consular Offices by many countries. The Hong Kong Government follows this practice.

(b) Over the past three years, we have written off about $38,000 in respect of the 180 fixed penalty tickets which have been waived. Details are annexed.

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 16 November 1994 912 Annex

Fixed Penalty Tickets issued to

Foreign Diplomatic and Consular Corps

for Traffic Offences between 1991 and 1993,

where payment was waived

1991 1992 1993

Type Type Type

Consulate A B A B A B Total Argentina 1 1 British Trade 2 2 Commssion

Chile 1 1 China Visa Office 8 8 4 4 2 2 28 Chinese Joint 1 1 Liaison Group

Columbia 3 3 Dominican Republic 2 1 3 Egypt 9 4 12 25 Finland 1 1 France 3 6 9 Germany 2 1 1 1 5 India 1 2 3 Indonesia 7 7 Israel 1 4 5 Italy 2 1 2 5 Japan 4 1 5 Myanmar 1 1

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 16 November 1994 913

1991 1992 1993

Type Type Type

Consulate A B A B A B Total Nigeria 1 7 17 25 Norway 1 1 2 Pakistan 2 2 Peru 2 2 Philippines 1 1 3 1 6 Portugal 8 1 3 1 9 22 South Africa 1 1 Spain 1 1 Thailand 3 2 2 7 Turkey 1 3 4 United Nations High 1 1 1 3 Commission for

Refugees

Total 53 13 37 7 65 5 180 66 44 70

Grand total 180

Key: A = Fixed Penalty Tickets issued in respect of parking contraventions B = Fixed Penalty Tickets issued in respect of moving offences

Special School Social Workers

15. MR TIK CHI-YUEN asked (in Chinese): With regard to the problem concerning the establishment of social workers in special schools, will the Government inform this Council:

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 16 November 1994 914

(a) of the respective wastage rates of social workers in various types of special schools over the past three years; together with the reasons for these social workers leaving their employment;

(b) of the respective proportions of the number of social workers to the student caseload for various types of special schools at present;

(c) of the number of special schools which do not have any post of Assistant Social Work Officer on their establishment and the reasons thereof; and

(d) whether the Government has considered standardizing the establishment of social workers in all special schools?

SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr President, the answers in seriatim are as follows:

The wastage rates of school social workers in various types of special schools in the past three school years are:

Wastage rate

Category 1991-92 1992-93 1993-94 Visually impaired 0% 0% 66.7% Hearing impaired 0% 40% 15% Physically handicapped 11% 22% 22% Mentally handicapped 14% 22.9% 39.6% Maladjusted 24% 40% 10%

Reasons are seldom given by school social workers for their resignations. However, it is understood from school heads and some school social workers that among those resignations with known reasons in the past 12 months, some took up Assistant Social Work Officer (ASWO) posts or joined other service units in the welfare sector. Some emigrated, while a few pursued further studies or changed profession.

The provision ratio of school social workers in special schools for all types of special schools is 0.5 worker for every 35 pupils.

There are 62 special schools in 1994-95, excluding one hospital school where pupils are served by medical social workers. In accordance with the Code of Aid for Special Schools, ASWOs are provided in 28 special schools, for example, those for maladjusted children and those with senior secondary classes.

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 16 November 1994 915

The remaining 34 schools are provided with school social workers at the Senior Social Work Assistant rank. These 34 schools comprise 32 special schools for pupils with mildly or moderately mental handicap, one for visually impaired pupils and another one for hearing impaired pupils. This provision is based on the recommendations of a Job Inspection Team which prepared the Code of Aid for Special Schools in 1981. The Team, consisting of representatives from the Hong Kong Council of Social Service, Hong Kong Special Schools Council, Social Welfare Department and Education Department, considered that the problems encountered by social workers in these schools were less complicated or diversified.

As regards standardization of the establishment of school social workers in all special schools, it will be considered in the context of the review of special education which is currently being conducted by a subcommittee set up under the Board of Education. The Education Department is also consulting the Hong Kong Special Schools Council on this issue.

Use of 'Powdered-glass Lines' in Kite-flying

16. MR TIMOTHY HA asked (in Chinese): The use of "glass thread" to fly kites, which is a longstanding habit among many kite lovers, constitutes a danger to other picnickers. Only recently, a child cycling in Pak Tam Chung in the New Territories was cut in the neck by a "glass thread". In view of this, will the Government inform this Council whether:

(a) any measures have been taken to prevent such accidents from occurring; if so, what those measures are; if not, what the reasons are; and

(b) the Government considers classifying "glass thread" as a dangerous toy and will advise retailers to stop selling it; if not, why not?

SECRETARY FOR RECREATION AND CULTURE: Mr President, kite-flying is a popular recreational activity. It is inexpensive and can be enjoyed by the whole family.

Kite-flying is prohibited in parks and playgrounds managed by the municipal councils under the respective Pleasure Grounds By-laws. However, to enable the public to enjoy kite-flying in a safe environment, the Regional Council organizes kite-flying activities in open areas in the New Territories. The use of "powdered-glass lines" is prohibited in such activities.

"Powdered-glass lines" are mainly used in kite fighting. Such lines are normally home-made or self-made. Measures controlling their sale or use would therefore be difficult to enforce. It would be more effective if the public is discouraged from using "powdered glass lines" through education and publicity, and the Government will examine ways of doing this.

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 16 November 1994 916 Employment Terms for Tertiary Institution Teaching Staff

17. MR CHEUNG MAN-KWONG asked (in Chinese): With regard to the teaching staff employed by the seven tertiary institutions funded by the University and Polytechnic Grants Committee, will the Government inform this Council:

(a) of the categories of terms of appointment under which they are employed;

(b) what are the differences in the criteria adopted for determining the appointment terms, salaries and fringe benefits for various ranks in respect of (i) local and expatriate staff on both contract and permanent terms of service and (ii) ethnic Chinese and non-Chinese staff recruited from overseas; how and on what basis are these criteria determined;

(c) whether the existing practice, which grants different salaries and fringe benefits to staff of the same rank and with the same qualifications on account of differences in appointment terms, is in breach of Article 22 of the Bill of Rights; if so, whether the Administration will assume responsibility for such breach; and

(d) whether the Administration will consider amending those appointment terms and criteria for appointment in which discrepancies occur before 1997, so that different conditions of service can be standardized and that the equitable principle of equal pay for equal work can be achieved?

SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER: Mr President, the answers to the questions are as follows:

(a) and (b)

Teaching staff of the University and Polytechnic Grants Committee (UPGC)- funded institutions are generally employed on either superannuable or contract terms. (Currently one institution, Lingnan College, only offers appointments on fixed term contracts, but this policy is under review). Staff employed in each of these categories may be offered either local or overseas terms. The offer of overseas terms follows civil service practice, that is, dependent on whether the person concerned:

- habitually resides in Hong Kong, China, Taiwan or Macau;

- has his/her general background or social ties somewhere other than Hong Kong, China, Taiwan or Macau; and

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 16 November 1994 917

- if appointed on local terms, would suffer a material degree of dislocation or uprooting from an environment to which he/she belongs.

No distinction is made solely on grounds of the person's ethnicity. There are no differences between local and overseas terms as regards salaries; the differences are mainly in terms of staff's eligibility for passage and baggage allowances, housing benefits and overseas education allowances.

(c) The differences in terms and conditions are not considered inconsistent with Article 22 of the Bill of Rights.

(d) The employment of staff is an area of institutional autonomy in which it would be neither appropriate nor desirable for the Government to interfere. Terms and conditions of service, other than salaries, for academic and equivalent administrative staff of the UPGC-funded institutions do not require government approval, subject to such terms being comparable with, and no better than, those offered to comparable ranks in the Civil Service.

Mortgage Loans for Housing

18. MR TAM YIU-CHUNG asked (in Chinese): Recently, the Chief Executive of the Hong Kong Monetary Authority remarked that the policy adopted by banks to offer a maximum of 70% of mortgage loans to home buyers would remain unchanged. However, the current level of property prices is still far beyond the affordability of the general public, particularly those young people who have just started their career. In view of this, will the Government inform this Council whether there are any specific plans to assist first-time home buyers, such as offering them a higher percentage of mortgage loans?

SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS: Mr President, it is the Government's policy objective under the Long Term Housing Strategy to provide adequate housing at an affordable price or rent to the people of Hong Kong. On home ownership promotion, we will help an additional 180 000 families to buy their own homes through various subsidized housing schemes administered by the Housing Authority and the Housing Society before 2001. Under the Home Ownership Scheme, the Private Sector Participation Scheme and the Sandwich Class Housing Scheme, flats are sold to low and middle income families at affordable prices. The Home Purchase Loan Scheme and the Sandwich Class Housing Loan Scheme offer interest-free and low-interest loans respectively to eligible applicants to purchase a flat in the private sector. Although the Government does not have any explicit policy to assist first-time home buyers, many of them have become beneficiaries under these schemes.

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 16 November 1994 918

In June 1994, the Government announced a package of measures to check the property price spiral. The noticeable moderation in property prices since the announcement of these measures will definitely help first-time home buyers purchase their own homes. We shall continue to monitor the residential property market closely.

Given the cyclical nature of the property market, the banking sector has to maintain a prudential cushion on mortgage lending in order to limit its exposure to the property sector. The 70% loan-to-value ratio provides such a cushion and is thus essential for maintaining stability in the banking system in the event of adverse movements in the property market.

Lending decisions are commercial decisions. Banks would need to take into account factors such as the credit risk of the borrower in making lending decisions. First-time buyers, however, tend to suffer greater strains on affordability. Consequently, it would be difficult to justify a higher lending ratio for this group of borrowers alone while caution has to be exercised generally across the whole spectrum of residential mortgage lending.

Publicity on Old Age Pension Scheme

19. MR HENRY TANG asked (in Chinese): As the contents of the Government's promotion film and tape about the "Consultation Paper on the Proposed Old Age Pension Scheme" broadcast on television and the radio are misleading in nature and may create the misconception that the proposal has already been finalized, will the Government inform this Council:

(a) of the message which is implicit in the promotion film and tape;

(b) whether, it is appropriate for the Government in soliciting public views on a particular issue in order to get the public to become knowledgeable about the issue, to publicize the relevant issue in an overly affirmative tone;

(c) whether the contents of such promotion films and tapes currently broadcast on television and the radio are subject to scrutiny by any mechanism; if not, what the reasons are; and

(d) whether there are rules or guidelines covering the production of promotion films and tapes on Government policies; if so, what are the guidelines applicable to the above-mentioned film and tape; if not, whether the

Government will consider drawing up guidelines to distinguish Government messages which seek to consult the public from those which aim to publicize and promote Government policies so that the public will not become confused?

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 16 November 1994 919

SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER: Mr President, the suggestion that the Announcement of Public Interest (API) in question is misleading is unfounded. It is clear from the API and from related publicity materials disseminated on the proposed Old Age Pension Scheme (OPS) that the subject is under public consultation and that the Government is inviting public views on the subject.

The answers to the questions are as follows:

(a) The API is designed to focus the attention of the public on the purpose of the proposed OPS, which is to provide them with income protection at old age.

(b) The Government has declared its intention to implement an OPS subject to, among other things, community endorsement of the proposal. The proposed OPS is the outcome of a detailed technical feasibility study and it has been commended to the general public by the Administration at the same time as public views are invited. It is reasonable and legitimate for the Administration to recommend its proposed policy for public consideration and acceptance.

(c) and (d)

The Government is responsible for the contents of its APIs which are subject to public scrutiny in the normal way.

The Director of Information Services is responsible for advising on and for the production of radio and television APIs requested by individual departments. All APIs are produced in close consultation with client departments and the end-product carefully vetted before it is released for broadcast. APIs are produced along the general principles that they should be informative, educational and heighten the public's awareness on particular topics of concern. They serve to inform the public of important policies, measures or legislative changes affecting them; educate them as to their rights and responsibilities as citizens; and/or enlist their support or co operation on issues of public concern. Depending on public concern on the topic and the scale of publicity required, APIs more often than not form only one component in a comprehensive publicity package.

As far as the API in question is concerned, there is no question of confusion. The comprehensive package of information on the proposed OPS disseminated throughout the consultation period, including the consultation document, booklets, leaflets, posters, press advertisements and APIs all made it clear that we are seeking public views on the subject.

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 16 November 1994 920 Implementation of the Official Languages Ordinance

20. MR CHEUNG MAN-KWONG asked (in Chinese): Regarding the measures to implement the provisions in section 3(2) of the Official Languages Ordinance that both Chinese and English possess equal status and enjoy equality of use, will the Government inform this Council:

(a) of the number of government departments which accept documents submitted by the public in English only, together with a list of the departments concerned and the type of documents involved;

(b) whether the departments referred to in (a) have violated the principle and intent of the provisions in section 3(2) of the Official Languages Ordinance; if so, what are the explanations given by the Administration; and

(c) what measures will be taken by the Administration to rectify the present situation in which English is still widely used as the principal language in documents which have a legal binding effect; and how will the Administration address the issue so as to avoid any contravention of Article 9 of the Basic Law of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region — which stipulates that both Chinese and English are official languages — in order to facilitate the smooth operation of the future Government of the Special Administrative Region?

CHEIF SECRETARY: Mr President,

(a) A recent survey of government departments on the implementation of the provisions of section 3(2) of the Official Languages Ordinance shows that a large degree of success has been achieved in the equal use of English and Chinese in communications with members of the public. Nevertheless, some documents are still required to be submitted to the Government in English only. These are listed in Appendix I.

(b) Although section 3 of the Official Languages Ordinance provides that English and Chinese are both official languages for the purpose of communication between the Government or any public officer and members of the public, this provision does not overrule an express existing provision in any other ordinance, nor does it provide for the Official Languages Ordinance to prevail should there be a conflict with an existing ordinance. Consequently, the existence of statutory requirements for submissions to be made in English does not violate the provisions of the Official Languages Ordinance.

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 16 November 1994 921

(c) It is indeed government policy that documents which have a legally binding effect should eventually be bilingual. However, the contents of these documents are technically complex and involve legal liability. The translation of these documents would require substantial expert input from bilingual lawyers.

Given the limited availability of bilingual government lawyers, priority is given to the drafting of bilingual laws and to the law translation programme. Every effort is being made to have the Chinese texts of all existing laws authenticated by 1997. Once the authentic Chinese versions of the laws, and thus Chinese legal terms become available, we would be well placed to prepare documents with legally binding effect bilingually.

Since the Basic Law provides that in addition to Chinese, English may also be used as an official language by the executive authorities, legislature and judiciary of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (SAR), the maintenance of the use of English for such documents should not affect the smooth operation of the future SAR government, especially when they will be in bilingual form when resources permit.

Appendix I

Returns/Submissions required to be made in English

Department Documents

(1) Judiciary Section 5(2) of the Official Languages Ordinance provides that proceedings in the District Courts,

the High Courts and the Court of Appeal shall be

conducted in English. Therefore, only English

version of submissions required for the purpose

of proceedings of these courts will be accepted.

(2) Companies Registry Section 346(c) of the Companies Ordinance provides that all documents delivered to the

Registrar of Companies under The Ordinance

shall be in English or accompanied by a certified

English translation.

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 16 November 1994 922 Department Documents

(3) Office of the

Commissioner of

Insurance

(4) Hong Kong Monetary Authority

Financial Statements required to be submitted to the Insurance Authority under the Insurance Companies Ordinance are required to be stated in English.

Section 132(2) of the Banking Ordinance provides that all returns and information submitted to the Monetary Authority shall be compiled in English and Arabic numerals.

(5) Departments (a) Statutory Forms — as provided in ordinances which are enacted in English

and where authentic Chinese texts have

not been approved by the Legislative

Council.

(b) Non-statutory submissions/applications

which require technical information

which can only be provided by

professionals such as doctors, lawyers,

authorized persons and technical experts

who normally use English in conducting

business.

(6) Trade A number of applications for licences/certificates and related documents are required to be

prepared in English. They cover documents

which are necessary for customs clearance at the

importing end where a copy of the

licences/certificates must be produced to the

customs authorities.

MOTION

PHARMACY AND POISONS ORDINANCE

THE SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE moved the following motion:

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 16 November 1994 923

"That the Pharmacy and Poisons (Amendment) Regulation 1994, made by the Pharmacy and Poisons board on 24 August 1994, be approved."

She said: Mr President, I move that the Pharmacy and Poisons (Amendment) Regulation 1994 as set out under my name in the paper circulated to Members be approved.

Various fees and charges for licences and certificates as well as for other purposes are prescribed in the Pharmacy and Poisons Regulations made under the Pharmacy and Poisons Ordinance.

It is government policy that fees should in general be set at levels sufficient to recover the full costs of providing the services. The existing fees charged under the Pharmacy and Poisons Regulations were last set in 1989. To take into account the increase in costs and inflation since then, we propose that the fees should now be increased.

The Pharmacy and Poisons (Amendment) Regulation 1994 seeks to increase the fees payable under the Pharmacy and Poisons Regulations. The proposed fees, if approved, represent an insignificant percentage of the total operating costs of the trade. The impact of the fee revision on consumers should be negligible. The Pharmacy and Poisons Board, the authority in respect of licensing of pharmaceutical products and registration of pharmacists set up under section 3 of the Pharmacy and Poisons Ordinance, have been consulted and support the amendment Regulation.

With these remarks, I move the motion.

Question on the motion proposed, put and agreed to.

BILLS

First Reading of Bills

CORRUPT AND ILLEGAL PRACTICES (AMENDMENT) (NO. 2) BILL 1994 LAND TITLES BILL

MEDICAL AND RELATED PROFESSIONALS (REGISTRATION) (MISCELLANEOUS AMENDMENTS) BILL 1994

Bills read the First time and ordered to be set down for Second Reading pursuant to Standing Order 41(3).

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 16 November 1994 924 Second Reading of Bills

CORRUPT AND ILLEGAL PRACTICES (AMENDMENT) (NO. 2) BILL 1994

THE SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS moved the Second Reading of: "A Bill to amend the Corrupt and Illegal Practices Ordinance."

He said: Mr President, I move that the Corrupt and Illegal Practices (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 1994 be read a Second time.

The Corrupt and Illegal Practices Ordinance aims to prevent corruption and illegal practices at elections. At present, it only applies to the elections of the three-tier representative government and the Heung Yee Kuk.

The Bill before Members now seeks to extend the Ordinance to the elections of the Chairman, Vice-Chairmen and Executive Committee members of the 27 Rural Committees which made up the next tier in the hierarchy of rural organizations under the Heung Yee Kuk.

The extension is necessary to ensure that these elections, which have constitutional links with the three-tier representative government, are fair and open.

The constitutional links work as follows. First, the Rural Committee Chairmen are ex officio members of the New Territories District Boards. Second, the Chairman and Vice Chairmen of the Rural Committees are ex officio members of the Heung Yee Kuk which has a rural functional constituency seat in the Legislative Council and third, the Chairman and two Vice-Chairmen of the Kuk are ex officio members of the Regional Council which may return one candidate to the Legislative Council through the Regional Council functional constituency.

Under the Bill, all general offences provision of bribery, treating, election publicity and offences in relation to nomination and ballot paper will be extended to Rural Committee elections. Election features which do not exist in Rural Committee elections now, but which are part of the Corrupt and Illegal Practices Ordinance, such as election expenses, appointment of authorized persons to incur election expenses and filing of returns on election expenses and donations, will be introduced.

Clause 2 of the Bill provides definition for the terms "elector", "returning officer" as they appear in Rural Committee elections. The terms "Executive Committee" and "Rural Committee" are also defined.

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 16 November 1994 925

Clauses 5 and 8 provide for what is meant by a person authorized to incur election expenses, an incumbent candidate and a performance report in the context of Rural Committee elections.

Clause 9 provides that for Rural Committee elections, an advanced filing of a return of donations is to be made to the Secretary for Home Affairs instead of the Boundary and Election Commission. As the election results of Rural Committees are not gazetted, the timetable for filing of return on election expenses and donations in Rural Committee elections is tied to the date of the relevant election.

Clause 10 provides that consequential upon clause 9, the relevant returns are to be kept by the Secretary for Home Affairs instead of the Boundary and Election Commission.

Thank you, Mr President.

Bill referred to the House Committee pursuant to Standing Order 42(3A).

LAND TITLES BILL

THE SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS moved the Second Reading of: "A Bill to provide for a system of registration of title to land, and to provide for matters incidental thereto or connected therewith."

He said: Mr President, I move the Second Reading of the Land Titles Bill.

The present system of land deeds registration governs only the priority of registered deeds. Registration per se does not confer on a deed any validity it does not otherwise have. Therefore, even if a person is registered in a Land Registry as owner of a property, he may not be the legal owner because there may be some uncertainty in his title to the property or his title may be subject to the claim of some other person which does not appear on the land register kept by the Land Registry.

The Land Titles Bill seeks to convert the present land deeds registration system to a title registration system. Under the proposed system, the land register will be conclusive as to title of the property. Registration of a person as owner will confer full and absolute title to the property concerned subject only to any matters registered on the land register, certain overriding interest and rectification by the High Court. In practice, a state of title certificate will certify the state of the land register at the time the certificate is issued. It will not be necessary for the conveyancing solicitor to look behind the land register and investigate the title by reading through all the deeds.

Since not all the land deeds currently registered are free of claims, we propose that there will be a period of approximately 12 months after enactment

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 16 November 1994 926

of the Bill before it is brought into operation, thus allowing persons having unregistered claims time to register them under the present system. This will also give the Land Registry some time to prepare for conversion to the new system, and enable conveyancing solicitors to familiarize themselves with the new operational procedures.

In order to maintain the credibility and integrity of the proposed system, we propose that the Government should continue to be liable for any indemnity, unlimited as to amount, for loss suffered as a result of negligence on the part of the Land Registry in operating a new system. Since property conveyancing under the new system will still be undertaken on behalf of property owners by persons who are professionally qualified under the Legal Practitioners Ordinance, we do not propose that the Government should indemnify persons suffering loss as a result of negligence other than negligence of the Land Registry. As for losses suffered by means of information entered in or omitted from Land Registry records as a result of fraud, we propose that the Government should provide for an indemnity, up to a limit to be determined by the Financial Secretary, for such fraud by either the Land Registry staff or anyone outside the Land Registry.

It is intended that the funding for indemnities be self-financing with no subsidy from General Revenue. A separate reserve fund, which will be built up by setting aside part of the registration fees, will be established within the Land Registry Trading Fund for this purpose. In case of any claims that cannot be met by the reserve fund, the Government will provide a draw-down loan facility to meet the balance of payments.

Mr President, the proposed title registration system is necessary to provide certainty of title for existing owners and a higher degree of protection for purchasers than the present land deeds registration system. I commend it to Members for favourable consideration.

Thank you, Mr President.

Bill referred to the House Committee pursuant to Standing Order 42(3A).

MEDICAL AND RELATED PROFESSIONALS (REGISTRATION) (MISCELLANEOUS AMENDMENTS) BILL 1994

THE SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE moved the Second Reading of: "A Bill to amend certain Ordinances relating to the registration and practice of medical, dental, nursing, midwifery and paramedical professionals."

She said: Mr President, I move that the Medical and Related Professionals (Registration) (Miscellaneous Amendment) Bill 1994 be read the Second time.

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 16 November 1994 927

Certain provisions in the existing legislation are outdated or inadequate as a result of changes in circumstances over time. This Bill proposes four areas of change.

The first proposed change concerns the recognition of overseas qualifications for registration of dental practitioners. Under the existing Dentists Registration Ordinance, holders of United Kingdom, Irish or Commonwealth diplomas are automatically entitled to register as dental practitioners in Hong Kong. This is discriminatory and contravenes the provisions of the General Agreement on Trade in Services. The Ordinance therefore needs to make provisions for the use of a universal licensing examination for the registration of dental practitioners in Hong Kong, irrespective of where the practitioner received his or her training in dentistry.

At present, some of the medical and related professionals in the public sector are exempted from registration and the payment of certain fees. The second proposal aims to rationalize the treatment for medical and related professionals in private and public sectors.

The introduction of a mandatory practising certificate system for nurses is our third proposed change. This is in line with the practice of other related professionals, such as doctors, dentists and pharmacists. In addition, it will enable us to have an up-to-date record of practising nurses, both registered and enrolled, in Hong Kong.

Our fourth proposal is to remove the outdated stamping requirement. A complaint against a medical and related professional, which may contain an allegation of "unprofessional conduct", needs to be supported by a statutory declaration on the facts of the case. It is a statutory requirement under the respective legislation that such a declaration should be duly stamped, that is, a stamp duty of $3 is charged. However, with an amendment to the Stamp Ordinance in 1973 and its replacement by the Stamp Duty Ordinance in 1981, statutory declarations are no longer chargeable with stamp duty. We need to repeal the nugatory stamping requirement.

Bill referred to the House Committee pursuant to Standing Order 42(3A).

CITY POLYTECHNIC OF HONG KONG (AMENDMENT) BILL 1994 Resumption of debate on Second Reading which was moved on 2 November 1994 Question on the Second Reading of the Bill proposed, put and agreed to. Bill read the Second time.

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 16 November 1994 928 Bill committed to a Committee of the whole Council pursuant to Standing Order 43(1). HONG KONG BAPTIST COLLEGE (AMENDMENT) BILL 1994 Resumption of debate on Second Reading which was moved on 2 November 1994 Question on Second Reading proposed.

MR LAU WAH-SUM: Mr President, today is a milestone in the development of tertiary education in Hong Kong. With the passing in just a moment of the Bills to amend the respective Ordinances of the Hong Kong Baptist College and the two polytechnics, which will give legal effect to the new university title and internal governance structure of the three institutions, Hong Kong will have a total of six universities.

For the Hong Kong Baptist College and the two polytechnics, university status does not come as a birthright. Rather it is an achievement made possible only by many years of hard work on the part of Government, staff and students of the institutions against a backdrop of community support. As Chairman of the Board of Governors and Council of the Hong Kong Baptist College for many years, I am happy to report that we at the Baptist College take much pride in the sweet fruits of all these years of labour, the new status as a university and a new name of the Hong Kong Baptist University.

This is indeed a historical moment for the institution. With a humble beginning as a private post-secondary institution, it has striven throughout its 38 years of history to provide quality tertiary education for the deserving youths of our community, and has now succeeded in gaining recognition as a full-fledged university of international standard.

Hong Kong has indeed come a long way since the days when tertiary education was only the privilege of a few. The local tertiary education sector has been keeping pace with the development of the community and the world at large, and at this very crucial and important time for Hong Kong, has a mission of the utmost importance to fulfil — that of training able community leaders for the future development of our society and this part of the world.

The Hong Kong Baptist University is fully prepared to assume this responsibility. Throughout my long association with the institution, I have been closely involved with its activities and have witnessed the tremendous progress and laudable achievements it has gained over the years. It is my earnest belief that in the days ahead, the Hong Kong Baptist University will be able to contribute much to our community through its quality, whole person education and vibrant research endeavours.

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 16 November 1994 929 Thank you, Mr President.

SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER: Thank you, Mr President. I would like to associate myself with Mr LAU's remarks. This is indeed an important occasion for university development in Hong Kong. The three Bills, if passed, certainly marks another milestone in our development of tertiary education in Hong Kong. I fully agree with Mr LAU that the institutions concerned have worked their way very hard to gain this status, and I fully welcome Members' support of the Bills and of their early passage. Thank you.

Question on the Second Reading of the Bill put and agreed to.

Bill read the Second time.

Bill committed to a Committee of the whole Council pursuant to Standing Order 43(1).

HONG KONG POLYTECHNIC (AMENDMENT) BILL 1994

Resumption of debate on Second Reading which was moved on 2 November 1994 Question on the Second Reading of the Bill proposed, put and agreed to. Bill read the Second time.

Bill committed to a Committee of the whole Council pursuant to Standing Order 43(1).

Committee Stage of Bills

Council went into Committee.

CITY POLYTECHNIC OF HONG KONG (AMENDMENT) BILL 1994 Clauses 1 to 36 were agreed to.

HONG KONG BAPTIST COLLEGE (AMENDMENT) BILL 1994 Clauses 1 to 43 were agreed to.

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 16 November 1994 930 HONG KONG POLYTECHNIC (AMENDMENT) BILL 1994

Clauses 1 to 27 were agreed to.

Council then resumed.

Third Reading of Bills

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL reported that the

CITY POLYTECHNIC OF HONG KONG (AMENDMENT) BILL 1994 HONG KONG BAPTIST COLLEGE (AMENDMENT) BILL 1994 and HONG KONG POLYTECHNIC (AMENDMENT) BILL 1994

had passed through Committee without amendment. He moved the Third Reading of the Bills.

Question on the Third Reading of the Bills proposed, put and agreed to. Bills read the Third time and passed.

PRIVATE MEMBER'S MOTIONS

PRESIDENT: I have accepted the recommendations of the House Committee as to time limits on speeches for the motion debates and Members were informed by circular on 11 November. The movers of the motions will have 15 minutes for their speeches including their replies; other Members will have seven minutes for their speeches. Under Standing Order 27A, I am required to direct any Member speaking in excess of the specified time to discontinue his speech.

FAMILY POLICY

MR HUI YIN-FAT moved the following motion:

"That in the light of the importance of the family in our society and the close relationship between the family and public policies, and in this International Year of the Family, this Council urges the Government to formulate a family policy in Hong Kong."

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 16 November 1994 931

MR HUI YIN-FAT (in Cantonese): Mr President, I move the motion for debate standing under my name, details of the motion have been set out on the Order Paper.

The family is a vital component of society. It is also the basis for founding a stable community. Therefore, every government has the obligation to protect the irreplaceable and unique role played by the family in society by means of policies and institutions. However, just like the problem of environmental pollution, the painful lesson of the western world in sacrificing the traditional values of the family institution in the course of industrialization and urbanization is clearly ineffective in arousing vigilance of the Hong Kong Government — even though the Government has reinforced family servicse as various social problems keep emerging, it has not yet actively and specifically worked on the formulation of a family policy to date.

The contribution of the institution of family to society is evident. In today's debate, I think we need not spend our time in dealing with the causes of the sharp increase in divorce cases, the emergence of single-parent families, parent playing a double role, parentless or foster parent families. It is more important to note that many sociologists and scientific studies have shown that problems attracting much attention in our community such as juvenile delinquency, depreciation in the sense of value in life, the debilitation of interpersonal relationship, the neglect in the care of children and the elderly people, the abuse of spouse and incest are all closely related to the collapse of the family institution, the weakening of the cohesiveness of the family and the loss of traditional values. Furthermore, the stability of society in the future will encounter severe challenges.

The Government is of course not ignorant of the reality. The White Paper: Social Welfare into 1990s and Beyond published in as early as March 1993 has set out the overall objectives of family welfare services which are "to preserve and strengthen the family as a unit and to develop caring interpersonal relationships, to enable individuals and family members to prevent personal and family problems and to tackle them when they arise and to cater for needs which cannot be met from within the family." However, we can also see from these that although the Government has attached great importance to the family institution, it mainly cares about individuals' needs in a family including financial assistance and supplementary counselling services, and not about the overall functions of the family institution.

These observations can be verified by last year's policy address of the Governor. The Governor said he hoped he could take the opportunity of the International Year of the Family to reaffirm that the family was the basis on which the stability of society was founded. But he adopted only two measures which included the strengthening of the existing services to take care of children with special needs in families, such as autistic and disabled children, and making slight adjustments to the allowance for children of families receiving public assistance.

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 16 November 1994 932

Although I do not doubt the kind sympathy of the Governor for individual disadvantaged families, I find that this only shows that with the formulation of the Social Welfare White Paper, the relevant family services still emphasized on measures for remedying the deficiencies in individual families, and there was an overall lack of active preventive and developmental measures, hence, services became inevitably scrappy and scattered. It was because the Government has still not formulated a clear family policy which resulted in a lack of definite targets of development in most welfare services provided for families. For example, we cannot see any direct relationship between improving care for children and raising children's allowance, and restoring the overall functions of the family institution any positive significance.

In other words, notwithstanding that the Government has reinforced family services in recent years, and even thought that there is basically a family policy in Hong Kong, these are merely bogus concepts. In fact, the Government only has a family welfare policy which mainly includes the prevention of family problems and offering support and assistance to distressed families, but this is not a family policy. The family policy I ask for is one which requires government departments or policy branches to take into consideration or assess the impact of the policy to the family whenever any public policy is being formulated. It is similar to the current standing arrangement which requires all works projects to be approved by the Executive Council to comprise comprehensive assessment report on the impacts on the environment. Let me give a few more examples to illustrate this.

(1) Although more and more married women are working instead of staying at home, and the Government has even encouraged them to be employed at times of labour shortage, the Government has never considered helping them tackle the problem of their having to take care of their children, and even in primary schools, the system of morning and afternoon sessions in still being maintained.

(2) In respect of the planning of new towns, the Government only knows how to use every means including preferential rents of houses to attract families to move to remote new towns, but it has overlooked the point that if people have to spend long hours everyday on transport, this will certainly affect their family lives. Besides, as more and more families are moving to the new towns, the ability of these families and their relatives to look after each other has been undermined.

(3) With their busy and hectic work, the people of Hong Kong are used to regarding Sunday as a family day for having gathering with the whole family (I have to ask Mr President to pardon me for what I am going to say, because it has something to do with you). Yet, the Royal Hong Kong Jockey Club still does not let go of the mass of race-goers and continues to schedule events on Sundays. It obviously does not know the concept of a family policy.

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 16 November 1994 933

(4) Concerning the Matrimonial Causes Bill recently put forward by the Government, it is true that it does not help much to require, on a mandatory basis, couples having relationship problems to divorce only after a definite period of separation, but I think an additional condition should be to require them to undergo a certain counselling programme before they may decide whether they should end up divorcing.

In fact, there are many similar public policies which have impacts on the well-being of families. We simply have to pay attention to other aspects of life and it is not difficult for us to find that public policies are indeed closely related to the family. For example, the emergence of new families and nuclear families has affected the demand for as well as the unit design of public and private housing; the continuous increase in the number of single parent families also resulted in the Financial Secretary having to make extra tax allowance for these families to meet their extraordinary expenditure.

On the other hand, as the central policy making group does not know the concept of family policy, decisions made by different departments are often embarrassingly contradictory or even in conflict with each other. An example is that in view of the population aging at a speed faster than the pace of development which the Government is able to sustain, the Administration wants to reduce the pressure on public resources with the aid of caring by the family. It does so by established policies to encourage grown-up children to live with their parents, for instance, a cut in waiting time for public housing by two years is granted, dependent parent allowance is offered to taxpayers, and a few hundred dollars' extra tax relief is given which is more than that given to the others who live separately from their parents. However, in applying for public assistance, the allowance for old people who live alone is a few hundred dollars more than what is offered for those who live with their family. Clearly, it is hard to ensure that various policies are going towards the same goal without a well-defined family policy.

Mr President, many realistic examples have made it clear to us that the well-being of a family is inseparable from public policies which take care of the family as a whole. I request the Government to formulate a family policy to urge the departments concerned to be alert to the relation between the two and to their needs, and to give consideration from the point of view of the family when formulating and reviewing public policies, and to make more thorough and longer-term commitment for promoting the well-being of families. Besides, it may also educate the public in the course of formulating and implementing family policy. Indeed, only if every citizen becomes aware of the importance of the family, values his family life, loves his family and cares about the needs of his family members, can the Government be able to get twice the result with half the efforts.

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 16 November 1994 934

Looking at the situation as a whole, we can see that the family institution is at the verge of collapse, its functions are degenerating and social problems are arising, and that the well-being of the family is closely related to public policies. Let me reiterate that the Government must work out a family policy as soon as possible and must not deceive itself and others with its family welfare policy. I think we should not accept the Government's proposal to only work out a family charter, for we have learnt a lesson from the past when the Commission on Youth failed to promote the youth policy, and we were disappointed that the Government merely produced the non-binding Charter for Youth. In fact, the formulation of the family policy may not entail additional financial commitments as what the Government thinks, for when the policies concerned become consistent and mutually facilitating, a lot of unexpected economic benefits can be generated.

Heading towards the course of formulating a family policy, I think the following points are useful for consideration by the Government and people concerned when formulating the family policy and providing services. So long as we can basically reach a consensus, different kinds of services can be made to facilitate one another and be directed towards a common goal, and a comprehensive and well-defined family policy can be expected soon:

(1) It must be recognized that the provision of social welfare is meant to strengthen the functions of the family rather than to impede or replace the role played by the family.

(2) It must be taken seriously that the family is an essential component of society, but only when it is closely connected to other institutions can it effectively exercise its functions.

(3) The family must be strengthened to become a comprehensive institution so that family members can be taken care of and protected.

(4) Whilst family members have the obligation to look after one another, they are entitled to be assisted by society when they are in need.

(5) The interests of individuals and their families may not be uniform, but by complementing one with another, greater satisfaction can be obtained.

MR President, in view of the fact that the theme of this motion involves a large number of policy branches, and whilst I am happy to listen to the replies to be made by the Secretary for Health and Welfare and the Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands, I should be also grateful if the Chief Secretary could, on behalf of the central government, give an elucidation to this Council on the formulation of the family policy in concert with the International Year of the Family.

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 16 November 1994 935 With these remarks, I move the motion.

Question on the motion proposed.

MR MOSES CHENG (in Cantonese): Mr President, Mr LIN Yu-tang, a Chinese contemporary scholar, has made a very good analogy on families. He describes a family as a big tree, while the life of every member of the family is only but a branch of the big tree which relies on the trunk for growth, and the tree's existence also helps the trunk to nourish its other parts. This indeed expresses the close relationship between a person and his family.

In Hong Kong, a modern society where East meets West, how is our big family tree growing? The following data may be able to reveal the situation. According to the results of a survey concerning how Hong Kong people interpret happy life published by the Hong Kong Institute of Asia-Pacific Studies, the Chinese University of Hong Kong, in 1992, "having a family" only ranked seventh, far below health, money and personal freedom. Recently, the Commission on Youth has also conducted a survey. We can also find from the survey that only about 20% of the teenagers interviewed will turn to their parents for help when they have any problems. There are more and more old people not being taken care of by their families and more than 65% of the recipients of public assistance payment are old people. All these seem to sound an alarm that many family trees in Hong Kong are gradually withering away. Today, not only do many families fail to exercise the function of offering care and togetherness, but they have also become the target of government assistance. If this situation goes on, these trees will finally wither away. Eventually, a "family" will no longer be a "family", it may become no more than a composition of two generations living together temporarily.

Mr President, this year is the "International Year of the Family". The Governor, Mr Chris PATTEN, stated in his policy address last year that, "I hope we will be able to use this occasion to reaffirm the family's role as the basic building block for a stable society". The importance of the family, a basic unit of society, should be beyond doubt. Nowadays, there are many social crises in Hong Kong, including problems like juvenile delinquency and soaring of the divorce rate, which have first originated from family problems. Thus the promotion of harmonious family relationship is the permanent cure for these social problems. When there are less social problems, the Government can naturally save up the social resources in this aspect. Love among parents and siblings cannot be measured by money. How the family institution can be consolidated as a pillar of society is now presenting a great challenge to the Government and the social welfare sector. This is a long term and arduous task which cannot be accomplished simply by the Government spending $5 million on organizing some publicity activities for the "International Year of the Family".

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 16 November 1994 936

The Liberal Party supports the request for the Government to formulate a family policy in order to strengthen the various family support services. We cannot deny that the Government is now taking the family factor into account when formulating certain policies, for instance, the Family Activities and Resource Centres newly introduced by the Social Welfare Department (SWD), the tax allowance designed for single-parent families and the Priority Scheme of the Housing Department to encourage children to live with their parents and so on. However, all these are piecemeal policies and I can hardly see any overall planning and co-ordination by the Government. One should know that a family may consist of three generations, the old, the middle-aged and the youth and the problems related to family matters are wide-ranging. The Government should set out a clearer and more definite policy objective and incorporate the spirit of supporting and protecting the integrity of the family into the various administrative policies. When formulating a family policy, the objective of the Government should be to highlight the caring role of the family and to provide more support services, with a view to promoting the internal solidarity of families. Family services provided by the Government should mainly be focused on prevention and be community-based. The Government should take into account the nature and modes of families in each district and provide these districts with appropriate comprehensive services. As regards family services, the existing family service centres of the SWD are normally engaged in routine work and their roles are too passive. They will only think of remedial measures when somebody has got a problem and come forward for help. But how much help can the social workers of the SWD actually offer at that stage? The Government should strengthen its work on family life education. Everyone wants to have a harmonious family and prevention is always easier than cure. I believe the Government surely understands this simple truth. In order to promote harmonious family relationship, attention should also be given to school education, to imbue the teenage students with family concepts through the primary and secondary curricula and school activities, in such a way that they will understand the roles to be played by children in families.

Lastly, I want to remind Members that it is not purely the Government's responsibility to enforce the functions of families. The Government's role is only to provide support services, just like providing soil for the family tree to grow. The most important thing is it all depends on everybody to irrigate and fertilize the family tree everyday so that the tree can grow exuberantly.

Mr President, with these remarks, I support the motion.

MR CHEUNG MAN-KWONG (in Cantonese): Mr President, the family is a haven where people can take refuge in life. Everyone hopes for a harmonious and satisfying family where one can get support and consolation from the pressure and challenges of the outside world. However, despite such beautiful yearnings, reality has time and again reminded us that most of the traumas and sufferings in the real world come from the family, especially from those families which have slipped the mind of the community.

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 16 November 1994 937

Mr President, while many existing juvenile problems such as drug abuses, suicide, youth gangs, violence and so on arise out of different causes, they mirror the fact that functions of families have been distorted by the forces of social changes. Some families have even failed to play their roles properly. Under these circumstances, should family members come across any pressure, they just cannot find a proper channel for relief; should they run into temptation, they will be too vulnerable to resist. Eventually, all these will turn into tragedies. Meanwhile, the support given to families by the community has all along been scanty and splintered. Therefore, no matter how hard we work to curb the problem, related social problems have kept on growing everywhere like weeds.

At present, there are three types of families in Hong Kong which are particularly in need of care. The first type is single-parent families. As there is a surge in cases of divorce, and family separation due to emigration and mainland mothers, more and more parents cannot fulfill their obligations to bring up their children. The children are, in turn, deprived of proper care. In addition to family changes and issues arising from the daily life such as financial hardship, housing problem and the problem of education for children, single parent families also have to face up to social discrimination and bias from some people in the society who regard them as second-class families.

The second type is "empty-shell families", which exist only in form as a family but not in substance. Due to economic pressure or the desire for material wealth, double income families have become the mainstream of family patterns. Some parents even take up two or more jobs concurrently. Some of my students can never see their parents on ordinary days. All they bring home with themselves is a chain of keys and immense loneliness. I happen to have a student who had to spend a whole night out in the cold winter time on the corridor because he had lost his keys. I think his heart and his childhood memories must have been far colder than the weather.

The third type is a new family species. The rapid development of trade between China and Hong Kong has resulted in an increasing number of Hong Kong people doing business and working in China. The outcome derived therefrom is the phenomenon of "keeping two homes", which is also commonly known as "keeping a second wife". The "second wife tremor" has brought about countless disputes and tragedies in ordinary families. Now, it is high time to attend to this problem seriously. The wives and children, who suffered the most, should obviously be the first cause for our concern. They feel humiliated and hurt as a result of the sudden changes; they feel distressed and confused at their future lives. They are in urgent need of assistance from the community.

Mr President, our society must have a comprehensive supporting network to help these unfortunate families and their members who are hurt both psychologically and physically. It is necessary to have a full range of services including financial protection, housing arrangement, tutorial and day care for children, psychological counselling and legal advice so that unfortunate families

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and their members will be able to regain hope and warmth and restore confidence when life is at such a low ebb.

Mr President, I would like to bring up the issue of family violence, which has happened time and again recently. This reveals that many women and children are not only deprived of family protection, they are in fact in a condition of helplessness and are subjected to physical, mental and sexual maltreatment.

According to the figures released by the Social Welfare Department recently, the number of complaints pertaining to battered wives as received by the Department in the year 1993-94 has increased drastically by 30% and that of child abuse also tends to be on the rise. As regards child abuse, cases in which children are sexually abused warrant our utmost concern as the number of such cases has tripled during the period from 1991 to 1993 and the number of cases in which children are sexually abused by family members has also increased by as much as 40%.

Mr President, it has always been an ethical virtue in the Chinese community to upkeep a harmonious family relationship. As many people still uphold the quality of tolerence and hold that one should never wash one's dirty linen in public, the figure stated above reflects merely the tip of the iceberg. Many cases of family violence continue to take place around us without being noticed. From the number of people seeking help from the Social Welfare Department, it is understood that more and more victims have become conscious of their situation and they want to escape from the scenes of maltreatment. So they cry out for help and appeal to the society for assistance. The bringing to light of family tragedies one after another has also aroused the community's concern for the problem of family violence.

However, what kind of support can our society provide in order to give appropriate protection and assistance to the victims of family violence? When a victim seeks help from the society, the society in general still adheres to the beliefs of "every family has a skeleton in the cupboard" and "where there is peace at home, there is prosperity". Government departments and the officers concerned very often simply take family violence as family disputes and lose sight of the potential danger to be faced by the victims in handling family violence cases. In addition, as handling officers lack proper training, battered women and abused children cannot get proper assistance.

Providing shelters and counselling service to battered women and abused children, issuing injunctions to abusers, to instituting charges against them and imposing sentences on them are all subsequent remedial measures only. What we need to do is to give suitable assistance to families facing difficulties and problems so that these families can play their role properly and everyone is able to regain support and consolation from his family. This is what we hope to see.

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The Government should formulate an integrated family policy, under which the existing fragmented and incompatible legislation and measures can operate effectively. The Government and voluntary agencies should enhance their educational work so as to enable members of the public to become aware of the resources in the society and know how to deal with family problems, thereby preventing the occurence of unhappy incidents.

Mr President, with these remarks, I support the Honourable HUI Yin-fat's motion.

MR FREDERICK FUNG (in Cantonese): Mr President, the Hong Kong Government has all along been playing a "supportive" role in respect of family policies to uphold and enhance the family as the basis of society. The Government has, in the past, provided a number of supportive services for the family, including increasing the number of nurseries, the number of family aides and Family Activities and Resource Centres. These isolated or fragmented supportive services are limited in their effectiveness. Hence, I think the Government should provide adequate resources (in terms of both quality and quantity) to assist families which lack resources to perform their basic functions (including emotional support, financial dependence and continuity of life). This is something which I shall give my full support.

The more important question, however, is that there have been substantial changes in the families in Hong Kong in terms of membership, relationship between the members, roles and responsibilities, allocation of power and ways of life, which makes the family today very different from the traditional family of the older generation. Hence, in formulating a family policy, the Government should consider whether the scope of such a policy would interfere with the right of self-determination in the family.

Undeniably, the family's failure to perform its functions is one of the reasons which give rise to a variety of social problems. Take the example of juveniles running away from homes. According to police information, there were at least 3 557 cases of juveniles running away from homes in 1993 and there were 1 649 such cases in the first half of 1994. The main reasons for juveniles to run away from their homes are breakdown of communication between two generations and very poor relations with members of the family. Take suicides of the aged (65 and above) as another example. There were a total of 1 670 suicides of the aged from 1985 to 1993, which means that on average, 185 aged people committed suicide each year (according to the report compiled by the Working Group on Care for the Elderly). The main reason for the aged to commit suicide is not poverty or financial difficulties, but lack of care by the family (including death of the spouse, the feeling of being abandoned when nobody comes to visit them in hospitals or homes for the aged, the need to be taken care of because of physical infirmities and so on). I think it is really necessary for the Government to provide more resources to families in need so that they can perform the basic functions of the family. However, we

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must remember that the failure to perform the functions of a family is not the only cause of various social problems (negligence of children, battered wives, juvenile delinquency, morality tragedies within the family and so on).

Family policies should not merely involve financial commitment of the Government, they should also have clear and directed objectives. I think the aim of a family policy is to enable families to perform their most basic functions and it should be directed towards providing sufficient resources to support the family (especially the women) to perform its most basic functions. We understand that women are the main care-givers in the family and they have to endure great psychological pressure. In fact, they need to be care-receivers too. As such, the Government should really give them more support so that the family can function more efficiently and effectively. The question of battered wives has recently aroused social concern once again. According to statistics provided by the Harmony House Limited, the number of battered wives in Hong Kong is on the rise, showing the seriousness of violence in the family. Hence, in formulating a family policy for the care of women, the Government should co-operate with various sectors including the police, social workers, the medical and nursing profession and the legal profession in order to obtain good results.

Another point for consideration is whether a family policy would affect the family's "right of self-determination". If poorly worked out, a family policy may interfere with the basic rights of a person's choice and privacy. The Government has all along been portraying the family as a purely private domain, in which members of the family can enjoy privacy. However, if a family policy affects the right of the individuals to carry out activities in the family, the individuals' basic rights of choice and privacy will be violated. For example, the KWOK Ah-nui Incident, which happened some years ago, has aroused much social concern. The main reason is that the Administration has broken into the house to take the girl KWOK Ah-nui away, and has thus interfered with the way of life of her family (the social worker of the Kwai Chung Family Services Centre under the Social Welfare Department who handled the case said that there were no signs of KWOK Ah-nui having been maltreated). This example will serve to remind the Government of matters to consider in formulating a family policy.

Formulating a satisfactory family policy is no easy matter, because in so doing, the existing way of life of families might be affected. However, I still believe the Government has the obligation to formulate a good family policy and move towards a proper direction. Only in this way can family policies be effective.

With these remarks, I support the motion.

MRS SELINA CHOW (in Cantonese): Mr President, in recent years, Hong Kong has been very prosperous. There is industrial and commercial progress, high employment rate, materialistic life in affluence, and dazzling signs of

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wealth. But behind every success a price has to be paid. A latent trend which causes worries is that cases of divorce has increased drastically by 31% from 5 650 in 1992 to 7 454 in 1993, which implied that the family institution has been subjected to a severe test.

Chinese society has all along taken the family as a basic unit. In my view, the family plays an indispensable role in making Hong Kong a success. In an international city like Hong Kong, which is marked with prosperity, advance and rapid development, family functions as a shock absorber of society, relieving stress coming from society and giving us mental and emotional support as well as satisfaction.

However, along with the rapid changes in society, the family as a shock absorber of society has been subject to a detrimental impact. Over the past 10 years, the issue of 1997 has brought about a group of "astronauts" — men and women who live apart from their spouses and children. They are those who want to get foreign passports but still have to face financial reality. Emigration or otherwise is very much a personal decision which cannot be judged right or wrong. It all depends on one's own confidence in Hong Kong's future and on one's discretion. Nevertheless, I think such an important decision should not be made by a single member of a family, but rather through consideration and commitment by the whole family. I do not find it worthwhile to obtain foreign passports at the expense of splitting up the family. We can obviously tell from experience that many marriages came to an end as a result of couples living apart. This indeed demands too much of a sacrifice.

Mr President, it is undeniable that the return of emigrated families to Hong Kong has reduced the problem of spouses living apart as a result of emigration. The hot topic in its place is another group of men who can be called the "new bigamists" who emerge with the economic co-operation between China and Hong Kong. They are married businessmen or workers shuttling between China and Hong Kong. They either keep concubines or live a debauched life in the mainland. The "village of second wives" in Shenzhen, which I believe you have seen introduced on television, is the great thing the container truck drivers have achieved!

Of the 3 660 cases handled by the Hong Kong Family Welfare Society last year, 30% are about marital relations. The hotline cases of extra marital affairs received by the Hong Kong Federation of Women Centre in 1993 increased by four and a half folds as compared with 1992; and of the extra marital affair cases received by the Hong Kong Young Women's Christian Association, 80% of them took place in the mainland. Once I attended a seminar where a social worker said his work allows him to contact many women whose husbands have concubines in the mainland; these women are worried and disturbed both financially and emotionally, but they could ask nobody for help. He asked me what he could do, what I could do and what the Government was doing. I was dumb-founded for a while. Now, I have to ask the Administration and the

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 16 November 1994 942 Secretary for Health and Welfare: What is the Administration going to do for these women?

I can only put forward some suggestions for consideration by the authorities concerned. In my view, there are two methods which can help to solve the problem.

As far as employers are concerned, when they employ Hong Kong people to be resident staff in the mainland, they should make arrangements or provide quarters for employees' wives and children, or arrange family days over regular periods for employees to reunite with their families. If more 24-hour clearance arrangements at the border can be provided for workers shuttling between Hong Kong and China, there will be no more excuse or chance for them to live elsewhere. In a view to safeguarding the interests of the wives, the Administration should ensure strict enforcement of the law together with the Chinese Government to stamp out bigamy. Extra marital affair is, of course, not the only reason for divorce. In fact, many young couples cherish the ideal to remain a devoted couple until the end of their lives when they first decide to get married. Nevertheless, with cases of divorce rising drastically, I believe the Administration is duty-bound to help those couples who cannot find a way out by rendering as much assistance as it can, in the hope that they can avoid divorce through counselling.

When affections between couples died down or when couples are separated, the most innocent victims are their children. This also gives rise to many juvenile crimes. Although this issue will be discussed in the ensuing debate, I hope to express my views now. As society continues to developing, young people has become very much alienated from their parents. The influence of the environment, their values, money-oreinted practices, crowded living environment, influence and pressure from peers, and openness of the media all make various demands on the young people and force them to get mature early, without giving them the necessary support and assistance. Young people seldom talk with their parents at home and they do not spend much time together. When problems arise, they will not help one another. A survey shows that only one out of 10 young people will talk to his or her mother whenever a problem arises; and only one out of 20 will talk to his or her father.

In fact, family should be the most reliable safety net. However, to our young people, this function is vanishing. If there are conflicts between parents, children will be at a loss as to what to do and they will not have anyone to turn to. Even their beloved parents are unable to help themselves, how can children rely on their parents to solve their problems?

Mr President, I would like to reiterate that "affection and affinity" cultivated by one's family is the basis for continuity of the society. The cohesion of families indirectly determines the success and stability of society.

With these remarks, I support the motion.

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MR LAU WONG-FAT (in Cantonese): Mr President, in the traditional Chinese society, the family is considered a unit and there is no recoginition for the status of the individual. The husband considers supporting his wife, children and parents to be his responsibility and the wife sees her responsibilities as assisting her husband, teaching her children and showing respect to her parents-in law. The traditional virtue of division of labour inside and outside the home is significant in its role of bringing up the young, looking after the elderly and promoting the harmonious development of society.

Although Hong Kong is strongly influenced by western culture, with the society being been led by the British, the Chinese traditional attachment to the family is still ingrained. Undoubtedly, the younger generation, influenced by western culture, is gradually tending towards considering the individual as a unit and not feeling obliged to support one's parents. Besides, under the present social circumstances, it has become more and more common for both the husband and the wife to work to earn their living. Children are often neglected and those who lack proper care tend to go astray. I think the worsening of elderly and juveniles problems have something to do with the collapse of the traditional family concept. This unhealthy social phenomenon is very worrying.

Mr President, the chapter on Great Harmony of the book Li Yun says, "The elderly to be well taken care of, the able-bodied to show their talents and the children to be properly brought up" and "job for the man and home for the woman". This traditional family concept is very much justified. If we can encourage married couples to live with their parents, the elderly will be able to make good use of their time and experience in life to look after the young. I believe many social problems will then be solved easily.

I totally agree that children brought up in good families will be physically fit and mentally healthy, qualities which will be very helpful to the harmony of society. As to how to form a happy family, the co-ordination and co-operation by the Government in various aspects are indeed required, sociologists who understand the Chinese society well also need to make suggestions, and to make joint efforts in laying a social foundation for forming happy families in Hong Kong.

Mr President, with these remarks, I support the motion.

MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): Mr President, it is appropriate to discuss the family policy of Hong Kong in the International Year of the Family. Today I am going to look at this subject from the point of view of a family service worker. From the time I took up my first job after graduation from the university up to the present moment when I am a Member of the Legislative Council, what I have been doing are all related to family services.

In recent years, due to political reasons and the restructuring of the economy, families in Hong Kong are confronted by great tremour. There is a

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rise in the number of child abuse and divorce. Besides, it has gradually been a common sight for family members to live apart in different places.

There is a Chinese saying that "It is better to be a dog in a peaceful world than be a man in troubled times." Hong Kong can by no means be described as "in troubled times" when compared with some of the countries in Eastern Europe and Africa which are in chaos. And quite on the contrary, Hong Kong has a prosperous economy and is growing steadily at a rapid pace. What is more, Hong Kong has recently been chosen by Fortune magazine as the best city in the world to do business. However, in the past years, we saw an average emigration of 50 000 to 60 000 people from Hong Kong annually as a result of the impact posed by the 1997 issue. In addition, more than 30 000 people from the mainland holding One-Way Exit Permits arrived in Hong Kong every year. The phenomenon of people moving to a different community or a different country will have adverse effects on family relationship. In cities where many immigrants from Hong Kong live, such as Vancouver, there is the emergence of the so-called "Women's Street" because the men of these families have to return to Hong Kong to manage their business, thus leaving behind their wives and children. Alienation of family members from each other is obvious.

On the other hand, as a result of economic changes in China and Hong Kong, many people in Hong Kong, including men from all walks of life and various sectors, have to work in the mainland very often or for a long period of time. Various forms of "second wives villages" have emerged one after another. Many family tragedies have been brought about by such phenomenon and changes.

The consolidation and existence of families are the pre-requisites for a healthy society. Without healthy families, all kinds of social problems will crop up continually. When problems arise, the Government must provide the necessary services so that those who are in need can have access to proper assistance. Most of the existing social welfare services in Hong Kong are classified in terms of age, such as children and youth, infant and elderly and so on. Family service is merely one of these various kinds of services. Insofar as services are concerned, classification of services according to age has not only failed to achieve cost effectiveness, it also enhances the sense of self-seeking. It contradicts entirely with the purpose of establishing a stable family with members of the family enjoying very close relationships.

In the Draft White Paper on Social Welfare into the 1990s and Beyond published by the Government in 1990, the Government admitted that "there is a need to develop family services in line with the increasing diversity of family-related problems". The Government further pointed out that "innovation and flexibility of approach will be essential". In the 1980s and 1990s, many voluntary agencies have initiated a diversified range of open family services which are community-based. Not only are these kinds of services being applauded and supported by the communities, they have also proved to be cost-

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effective. Such "low cost and highly efficient" social welfare services are indeed rare in Hong Kong.

However, Mr President, due to the political relationship among agencies and departmentalism exerted by certain influential individuals as well as institutions, subsequent reviews on social welfare services showed that the recommendations made in the 1990 White Paper were not implemented. Neither did they introduce improvements and innovations along the line of these recommendations. At present, welfare services are still classified according to age and family services remain as casework which is mainly of a therapeutic and protective nature. I find it very disappointing and regrettable that the development of family welfare services in Hong Kong has come into such a stage.

I hereby urge the Hong Kong Government to develop "community-based family services" as soon as possible to facilitate the early provision of support services to families in need in order to prevent family tragedies. My opinion is that "community-based family services" should be operated in a way which is mainly meant to set up networks and provide support services. The personnel involved should take the initiative to approach residents and make use of community resources so as to enable families to lead a stable and normal life.

Mr President, I hope that the Government will, at a time when it happens to be the International Year of the Family, review the pattern of our existing family services and study the difficulties currently confronted by families in Hong Kong and make changes accordingly so that the people of Hong Kong can build their own homes, and live and work in peace and contentment.

With these remarks, I support the motion.

DR TANG SIU-TONG (in Cantonese): Mr President, "Cultivate your moral character and then put your family, country and the world in order" is an old Chinese saying. Putting the family in good order is quite an important episode in the Chinese tradition. Although there are criticisms that the male and the female are not treated equally in the New Territories, there is a theoretical background for this because people in the New Territories regard family as a social unit. Family is indeed an important unit constituting the society. With the changes in times and the influence of other objective factors, big families with several generations living together are gradually disintegrated and replaced by smaller families of young married couples, single-parent families and families with husbands and wives living apart as generated by the emigration tide.

Many problem families emerge because of these changes and their demand for family welfare and family services have correspondingly increased. The public is paying more attention to the Administration's family policy. Some people have criticized that the family policy implemented by the Administration

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only has symbolic meaning and that the policy cannot even be regarded as a genuine family policy. I think we should not waste our time discussing whether there is a family policy or not, but rather, we should deliberate over the direction of the existing policy and the appropriateness and adequacy of the services provided.

The existing family policy mainly concentrates on providing services in three aspects: prevention, support and provision of services and assistance to families with difficulties, of which prevention of family problems is the most important. The Administration has recently planned to amend the Matrimonial Causes Ordinance to shorten the processing time for divorce. This change is only aimed at shortening the time required for divorce and provides no counselling services. This is in fact contradictory to the preventive work in respect of family services. Surprisingly, the amendment Bill has not aroused heated debates in society and it seems that it is totally accepted by the general public. In fact, it is inevitable that this change will have certain impacts on our society, the institution of marriage, the maintaining of the family concept and even the younger generation. The divorce rate has been increasing in recent years, resulting in an increase in the number of single-parent families. If the processing time for divorce is further shortened, the number of single-parent families will surely increase to a certain extent. The Administration must pay attention to the above phenomenon. Last November, this Council held a motion debate on single-parent families and resolved that the Administration should be requested to formulate a policy on single-parent families and provide assistance services. The Administration did not give any positive response and emphasized that the relevant services were adequate. In this year's policy address, apart from increasing the assistance payments for single-parent families by as much as $200, there is not any further improvements. Financial assistance is essential, but support and co-ordination in other respects cannot be overlooked. It is obvious that the policy makers have not shown enough care, sincerity and concern to the families in need. As a result, the financial assistance and other support services have fallen short of the actual needs. The Administration should not evade this problem.

Mr President, it is not difficult to understand that there are more problem families in new towns because of regional peculiarities and population composition. In these new towns, most families are small and they have young children. Husbands have to leave home early and travel a long way to work in the urban areas and they come home late. They will be proned to neglect their concern and care for their family members. Women who stay home to take care of their children will find themselves in an unfamiliar environment, lacking in support from peers and relatives, and deprived of adequate community facilities and services. And they are under great mental stress. Too much stress accumulated without appropriate outlet will easily affect the harmony in families and these families may even turn into problem families. It is an undeniable fact that the community facilities and services provided by the Administration in new towns are not adequate. The Administration should consider the special regional features and the needs of families in new towns and

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provide more counselling and support services directed at those living in new towns. However, we do not see any such specific arrangements.

"One cannot make bricks without straw." Even though we have a suitable family policy, if we have inadequate manpower and financial resources, services for families will certainly be hindered. I understand that some voluntary organizations providing family services have a shortage of manpower. Take the Hong Kong Family Welfare Society as an example. Every social worker has to handle and follow up over 120 cases concerning single-parent families. Such a high proportion not only increases the working pressure of the social workers in charge of such cases, it also affects the follow-up of the cases by social workers. I urge the Administration to review the allocation of resources for family services as soon as possible, so that the departments concerned can have adequate resources and manpower to promote family services.

There are now 30 family service centres and 19 Family Activities and Resource Centres under the Social Welfare Department. I believe that these service centres can play a positive role in family services. I think the publicity of the relevant work and services has to be enhanced to allow more people in need to know more about the relevant services and to enjoy these services.

Apart from the Administration, many voluntary organizations also offer different family services. However, the locations of these service centres are too scattered and are inconvenient to the users. I suggest that the Administration should arrange to locate all these service organizations and the service centres of the Social Welfare Department in the same social service complex and should further strengthen their services so that the public can gain easy access to these services.

"Life always begins in a family" — this inspiring saying is found in the lyrics of the theme song of the International Year of the Family. Family problems not only affect two or three family members, for the aftermath caused by problem families to society affects society at large. Later, we will debate on the problem of juvenile crimes which is a serious social illness and has partly originated from problem families. Therefore, the Administration should look squarely at the actual needs of our family policy and family services.

Mr President, with these remarks, I support the motion.

REV FUNG CHI-WOOD (in Cantonese): Mr President, the family has all along been regarded as the most important unit of society and the Government has also expressed its intention to advocate, uphold and safeguard the importance of the family. To achieve this, the Government should, in addition to formulating different policy objectives, have full understanding of the family institution and be forward-looking, so that it can formulate a long-term and comprehensive family policy adapted to the ever-changing environment.

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I would like to start with discussing the changes in the family structure in recent years. Getting married late is common in Hong Kong and the figures released by the Census and Statistics Department in 1991 showed that the size of an average family was 3.4 persons and the number of children in a family was generally one to two. This reflects the features of families in Hong Kong. Along with the changes in the social environment, there are varying changes in the form and nature of families. The following points may serve to illustrate the present situation:

(1) The number of single-parent families. Scholars estimate that less than 10% of the families in Hong Kong are single-parent families. However, with rising divorce rate, the number of single-parent families also tends to be on the increase.

(2) Special services on psychological counselling and the bringing up of children are required by separated couples who have respectively formed new families. The increase in this kind of re-established families is directly related to the growth in divorce rate in Hong Kong. At present, no social services have been designed by the Government to cater for the need of these unconventional families. The increasing number of single-parent families and re-established families shows that the mode of Hong Kong families can no longer be confined to the norm of double-parent families. The Government should give due regard to the diversified modes of families emerging in Hong Kong.

(3) A number of family tragedies have taken place this year and a woman has even died of battering. The repeated occurrence of wife battery cases make the public aware that a harmonious family is not something that can be taken for granted. Some families may not be offering protection and emotional assurance to their members.

(4) Women and the family also involves complex problems. Many people believe that the awareness of equality of the two sexes has already been found in families, for instance — husbands and wives are financially independent, housework is shared among family members, problems are handled through discussion and both sexes are on equal footing. However, we have also witnessed the fact that many women still have to give up their work in order to stay home and take care of their children. Women are still the main bearer of household labour.

I hope that the Government can pay due attention to the above situation. The mode of families in Hong Kong is becoming more diversified, the problems encountered by families and the relationship among family members have become increasingly intricate. Moreover, some of the problems faced by families is inseverable from other social issues, such as employment and

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women's status. If the Government fails to formulate a comprehensive and long-term family policy, family problems can only be dealt with in a piecemeal way.

We agree that the Government must formulate a comprehensive and long-term family policy, the spirit of which should cover four aspects: (1) the provision of comprehensive services for families of different modes; (2) up-dating the policy to adapt to social changes; (3) orientation of family services to maintaining and safeguarding harmony of families and the family as a basic unit of society; and (4) the provision of integrated services by inter-departmental efforts under the family policy.

Specific policies include the formulation of a sound policy for single-parent families, comprising services such as housing, medical care, comprehensive social security and counselling. As for re-established families, it is imperative to provide them with health and legal guidance services. Moreover, the Government can no longer sit with its arms folded over the problem of wife battery and domestic violence, but it should draw up policy guidelines and set out detailed measures, so that a range of services can be provided to the battered, such as shelter, counselling, medical care, legal advice, accommodation and employment. Cases of extra marital affairs are also on the rise coupled with the fostering of closer economic ties between China and Hong Kong. There is a lack of comprehensive support services in this respect. The Government should bear in mind the needs of society and strengthen these services as early as possible. Last but not least, family policy is vitally linked to the status of women. A sound family policy can create more employment opportunities and for women to join the workforce which may better equip them to handle the relationship with their spouses and children. We hope that the Government can establish community women centres to offer integrated services to women.

Mr President, with these remarks, I support the motion.

MR ERIC LI (in Cantonese): Mr President, many Members were well aware of the problems of single-parent families in the motion debate initiated by Mr Fred LI on 1 December last year. They hoped that a comprehensive and long-term family policy could be formulated as soon as possible.

The Hong Kong Government has all along been aware that the family is the foundation stone of the society, and it has formulated a set of specific family welfare policies. However, the number and structure of families have changed dramatically in Hong Kong in the wake of speedy processes of commercialization and urbanization as well as the emigration tide. Impacts of varying degrees are levied on families. Families have gradually been particularly weakened in taking care of the aged, the disabled and family members who have gone astray. Owing to limited resources being put, the

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defence exerted by government policies on the functions of the family has become very weak.

Although the Government is aware of the importance of the family but when it implements public policies, most of the time it would not "do what it knows" or would talk a lot but do very little. This is particularly true in respect of major policies affecting the basic needs of families, including food, clothing, shelter and transportation. The Government seldom make consideration from the viewpoint of the family and this gives rise to a lot of "family illnesses". For instance, in the development of new towns, the Government has given more thought to the migration of population than the co-ordination of transportation. This leads to the situation that many housewives are "trapped" in the new towns and that causes psychological anxiety which easily results in family disputes. The appearance of nuclear families, the increasing number of working parents and the lack of convenient child care centre facilities in public housing estates force many young children to be "locked up" at home without adult company. This has caused many domestic accidents. Under all these social changes, the family is no longer a harmonious place and the youth prefer to linger about in the streets rather than staying home. If there is no better places for them to go, they may easily encounter undersirable elements. This will indirectly aggravate the problem of juvenile delinquency. My colleagues have already cited a lot of examples.

In tackling these family illnesses, the Secretary for Health and Welfare may emphasize that a set of comprehensive services and a supporting network have already been provided under the family welfare policies of Hong Kong for maintaining harmony in the family. She may even be able to list all kinds of services. On incidental encounter, one may easily have the impression that the existing family welfare policies can cater for and satisfy every need of the family. However, the question is, family welfare policies can often only play a supportive and remedial role. I do not doubt the value of these services, but I believe the existing family policies will be more effective if other problems such as public transport and housing are taken into account when formulating a more comprehensive family policy. The Government has all along been emphasizing that the Chinese family is a good tradition, and most families are willing to take care of their members in need, especially the aged, the infirm and the disabled. Many families will not let their elderly members apply for public assistance or live in homes for the elderly unless they do not have other alternatives. I believe that this Council and the Government share the view that family policies should receive further development and our good tradition should be upheld. But as the function of the family is waning along with the changes in our community, the Government has been too particular about the expenditure to be incurred in this seesaw battle to remedy the situation and it is too mindful of whether it will be difficult to implement the policies. Nevertheless, I believe this Council and the Hong Kong people would want to have a harmonious community which is invaluable to us. Many people hope that there will be victory and no defeat in this seesaw battle. Victory in this seesaw battle will reduce the number of family welfare service applicants and achieve the most

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effective use of the resources for family welfare services and the resources could be diverted to people who are most in need.

With these remarks, I support the motion.

DR LAM KUI-CHUN (in Cantonese): Mr President, today I would like to start my speech by providing a directional guideline on the meaning of the rather vague term "family policy". I agree with Mr HUI's assertion that the existing family policy of the Government is basically confined only to family welfare policy. I believe that a family policy which is in concert with the existing environment of Hong Kong should be one that firmly establishes the role of the family as a unit of society, which supports the development of society and supports the mental and physical growth of family members and encourages mutual co operation among family members.

In view of the fact that young people in Hong Kong are becoming increasingly self centred and that their moral standards are consistently declining, I believe the family policy we need should be one that is oriented to the principle of re-establishing family relationship and reinstating ethical and moral principles, so that the community, in particular the youth, may recognize the concept of family attachment and understand their responsibilities as a member of the family and of the community.

Last July, the Government issued a policy cheque when it endorsed the Charter for Youth, claiming that "the family, as the primary care-giver for youth, should be afforded the necessary protection and assistance for the fulfilment of such role". In the latest policy address of the Governor, the second policy cheque was issued and the Government claimed that "it accepts a special responsibility to preserve and strengthen the family". However, both cheques have not been honoured so far.

The statistics released in recent years have shown that youngsters have become increasingly rebellious. Every hour there are youngsters under 21 years of age committing crimes, everyday six more youngsters become drug addicts, and one out of every five youngsters over the age of 21 has thought about committing suicide.

The Charter for Youth emphasized that "parents and legal guardians should be primarily responsible for the upbringing and development of youth". However, in a survey conducted in August this year, among the secondary school students interviewed, half of them indicated that there was no one to whom they could turn when they were in trouble, even family members could not give them any help at times of adversity. What are the reasons?

In Hong Kong, nuclear family is increasingly common where both parents have to go to work and grandparents do not live with the young to help edify the young, resulting in a lack of communication between the young and the old.

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At present, generation gap even exists between siblings with an age difference of five years or more. The escalating divorce rate in recent years, coupled with the increasing occasions on which the father has to go to the mainland to work, have rendered over 50 000 youngsters under the age of 21 having to grow up in single-parent families. All the above scenarios have impaired the normal psychological development of the youth. In respect of these problems, the Government only responds in a passive and impersonal manner, for example, by providing day nursery facilities, increasing single-parent allowance and so on. Nevertheless, the root causes of the psychological and emotional problems are still there. While drafting a sound and comprehensive family policy, the Government should, I believe, emphasize on building a closely-knit family network, creating a caring atmosphere in the community and encouraging families in the community to set up mutual co-operation and mutual help organizations, so as to supplement the inadequacies of individual families by the community as a big family. But we have to recognize that the network is only restricted to supplementary and secondary functions, the fundamental solution to youngsters' increasingly rebellious behaviour is to foster closer parent-children relationship in individual families and to nourish mutual understanding and co-operation among siblings.

Parents should be held largely responsible for deteriorating family relationship. In fact, the philosophy of laissez-aller in the western world is influencing a number of parents in Hong Kong, they do not clearly understand that allowing their children to develop their independence and individuality freely is actually just a marginal difference from connivance and negligence. The two are just the same in some Western communities. While connivance and negligence not only weaken family bonds, the lack of proper guidance may instil wrong values to the youth, and sometimes they may induce them into believing that being rebellious is being heroic. This lays buried a time bomb in the future development of the community.

At present, a number of families employ domestic helpers to take care of their children and to do the household chores. The parents are theoretically freed to spare more time for strengthening ties with their children. However, when we walk on the street during weekends, it is ironical for us to see that the mother carries a dog whilst her children hold the hands of their Filipino maid. Obviously, the roles of the mother and the maid have swapped. Many fathers are also substituting money and material rewards to their children for care and guidance.

Mr President, although my speech focuses on youth problems, the other family members, in particular the elderly, also need assistance to be provided by an appropriate family policy. The Government should draw up a family policy targeted at the drawbacks of the times. The long-term objective of the policy should be the implementation of basic family education and to allow the new generation to have a correct concept of the family when they are young while the short-term objective should be to rectify the misunderstanding of parents and children in the concept of the family, to assist them in re establishing family