HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993 2347 OFFICAL RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Wednesday, 10 March 1993
The Council met at half-past Two o'clock
PRESENT
THE PRESIDENT
THE HONOURABLE JOHN JOSEPH SWAINE, C.B.E., LL.D., Q.C., J.P.
THE CHIEF SECRETARY
THE HONOURABLE SIR DAVID ROBERT FORD, K.B.E., L.V.O., J.P.
THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY
THE HONOURABLE NATHANIEL WILLIAM HAMISH MACLEOD, C.B.E., J.P.
THE ATTORNEY GENERAL
THE HONOURABLE JEREMY FELL MATHEWS, C.M.G., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE ALLEN LEE PENG-FEI, C.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE STEPHEN CHEONG KAM-CHUEN, C.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS SELINA CHOW LIANG SHUK-YEE, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MARTIN LEE CHU-MING, Q.C., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE DAVID LI KWOK-PO, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE NGAI SHIU-KIT, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE PANG CHUN-HOI, M.B.E.
THE HONOURABLE SZETO WAH
THE HONOURABLE TAM YIU-CHUNG
THE HONOURABLE ANDREW WONG WANG-FAT, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE EDWARD HO SING-TIN, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE RONALD JOSEPH ARCULLI, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE MARTIN GILBERT BARROW, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE MRS PEGGY LAM, O.B.E., J.P.
2348 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993 THE HONOURABLE MRS MIRIAM LAU KIN-YEE, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE LAU WAH-SUM, O.B.E., J.P.
DR THE HONOURABLE LEONG CHE-HUNG, O.B.E.
THE HONOURABLE JAMES DAVID McGREGOR, O.B.E., I.S.O., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS ELSIE TU, C.B.E.
THE HONOURABLE PETER WONG HONG-YUEN, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ALBERT CHAN WAI-YIP
THE HONOURABLE VINCENT CHENG HOI-CHUEN THE HONOURABLE MOSES CHENG MO-CHI
THE HONOURABLE MARVIN CHEUNG KIN-TUNG, J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG MAN-KWONG
REV THE HONOURABLE FUNG CHI-WOOD
THE HONOURABLE FREDERICK FUNG KIN-KEE
THE HONOURABLE TIMOTHY HA WING-HO, M.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL HO MUN-KA
DR THE HONOURABLE HUANG CHEN-YA
THE HONOURABLE SIMON IP SIK-ON, J.P.
DR THE HONOURABLE LAM KUI-CHUN
DR THE HONOURABLE CONRAD LAM KUI-SHING
THE HONOURABLE LAU CHIN-SHEK
THE HONOURABLE EMILY LAU WAI-HING
THE HONOURABLE GILBERT LEUNG KAM-HO
THE HONOURABLE ERIC LI KA-CHEUNG, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE FRED LI WAH-MING
THE HONOURABLE MAN SAI-CHEONG
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993 2349 THE HONOURABLE STEVEN POON KWOK-LIM
THE HONOURABLE HENRY TANG YING-YEN, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE TIK CHI-YUEN
THE HONOURABLE JAMES TO KUN-SUN
DR THE HONOURABLE SAMUEL WONG PING-WAI, M.B.E., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE PHILIP WONG YU-HONG
DR THE HONOURABLE YEUNG SUM
THE HONOURABLE HOWARD YOUNG, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE ZACHARY WONG WAI-YIN
DR THE HONOURABLE TANG SIU-TONG, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE CHRISTINE LOH KUNG-WAI
THE HONOURABLE ROGER LUK KOON-HOO
THE HONOURABLE ANNA WU HUNG-YUK
ABSENT
THE HONOURABLE HUI YIN-FAT, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE LAU WONG-FAT, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE CHIM PUI-CHUNG
THE HONOURABLE LEE WING-TAT
IN ATTENDANCE
MR EDWARD BARRIE WIGGHAM, C.B.E., J.P.
SECRETARY FOR THE CIVIL SERVICE
THE HONOURABLE MRS ANSON CHAN, C.B.E., J.P.
SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES
MR MICHAEL LEUNG MAN-KIN, C.B.E., J.P.
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT
2350 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993
MR YEUNG KAI-YIN, C.B.E., J.P.
SECRETARY FOR THE TREASURY
THE HONOURABLE JOHN CHAN CHO-CHAK, L.V.O., O.B.E., J.P. SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER
MR ALISTAIR PETER ASPREY, O.B.E., A.E., J.P.
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY
MRS ELIZABETH WONG CHIEN CHI-LIEN, I.S.O., J.P. SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE
MR RONALD JAMES BLAKE
SECRETARY FOR WORKS
MR CHAU TAK-HAY, J.P.
SECRETARY FOR TRADE AND INDUSTRY
THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL SZE CHO-CHEUNG, I.S.O., J.P. SECRETARY FOR CONSTITUTIONAL AFFAIRS
MR ANTHONY GORDON EASON, J.P.
SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS
MR MICHAEL DAVID CARTLAND, J.P.
SECRETARY FOR MONETARY AFFAIRS
THE CLERK TO THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL
MR CLETUS LAU KWOK-HONG
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993 2351 Sessional Papers 1992-93
No. 64 — A Report of the House Committee of
the Legislative Council on the Nationality of
Non-Chinese Ethnic Minorities
No. 65 — Consumer Council Annual Report for 1991-92
No. 66 — Report of the Public Accounts Committee on
the Report of the Director of Audit on the Planning and
Financial Control by the Government on Building
the Hong Kong University of Science and Technology
March 1993
(PAC Report No. 17A)
No. 67 — Securities and Futures Commission
Approved Estimates of Income and Expenditure for
Financial Year 1993-94
Miscellaneous
White Paper on the Annual Report on Hong Kong 1992 to Parliament
Address
Report of the Public Accounts Committee on the Report of the Director of Audit on the Planning and Financial Control by the Government on Building the Hong Kong University of Science and Technology March 1993 (PAC Report No. 17A)
MR STEPHEN CHEONG: Mr President, on behalf of the Public Accounts Committee, I have the honour to table the Committee's Report No. 17A today.
This Report by the Public Accounts Committee responds to paragraphs 13.1 to 13.20 of the Director of Audit's Report No. 17 concerning the planning and financial control by the Government on building the Hong Kong University of Science and Technology.
The Director of Audit's Report was tabled in this Council in November 1991. In consideration of the subject at issue, our Committee had a total of 28 meetings including five public hearings during the past 15 months or so. We have examined in detail the specific areas raised by the Director of Audit in his report; considerable time and effort have also been spent looking into international architectural design competition for the HKUST held in the year 1987, so as to try to ascertain whether the selection of the design could have serious cost implications on the building costs of the University.
2352 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993
Mr President, it is not my intention this afternoon to go over all the conclusions and recommendations of our Committee. However, I think it would be appropriate for me to highlight some of the main recommendations.
First, we recommend that in future joint projects with outside parties, a formal agreement between the Government and outside parties should be drawn up before the commencement of the project, setting out the costs and scope of the project, the duties and responsibilities of each party. We also recommend that in respect of major capital projects, the Government should devise a mechanism whereby the Finance Committee of the legislature would be informed at the earliest opportunity of all instances where the approved estimates are likely to be exceeded significantly. Moreover, we consider that as a matter of principle the Government should not undertake any major project on a "design-as you-build" basis. In those rare cases where this approach has to be adopted, full justifications must be provided to the Finance Committee beforehand, and great care should be exercised in controlling the costs.
It will be noticed in Chapter 4 of our Report that the views of Members of the Committee are very much divided on the issue concerning the architectural competition and the selection of the final project design. Yet, let me emphasize that apart from this issue, the Committee has reached consensus over all other conclusions and recommendations. I sincerely hope that Chapter 4 will not overshadow the other Chapters of the Committee's Report.
Before I close, I would like to emphasize that the criticisms in our Report are in no way intended to adversely affect the integrity or reputation of the HKUST, which we, as a Committee of the Council, firmly believe will play an essential role in Hong Kong's tertiary educational process. Indeed, as a member of the Council of the HKUST, I am personally very proud of having been associated with this institution right from the beginning. I have every reason to believe that HKUST will contribute significantly towards the future of Hong Kong.
Finally, on behalf of the Committee, I would like to take this opportunity to express our appreciation and gratitude to all the persons who gave evidence to the Committee, to the Director of Audit and his staff for the many services which he has rendered, to our Legal Adviser, our Secretary and his staff for their advice, assistance and hardwork throughout the Committee's consideration of this subject.
Oral answers to questions
Localization programme
1. DR SAMUEL WONG asked: In paragraph 96 of his address to this Council on 7 October 1992, the Governor made reference to the development of the momentum of the localization programme in the Civil Service. Will the
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993 2353
Government inform this Council whether the localization programme applies equally to statutory bodies such as the Mass Transit Railway Corporation and the Kowloon-Canton Railway Corporation, which are wholly owned by the Government, and if not, why not?
CHIEF SECRETARY: Mr President, statutory bodies established by the Government to carry out specific functions are empowered to appoint their own staff and determine their own employment policy. The objective must be to appoint the best candidate available for the relevant job. That said, the Government certainly likes to see these bodies giving priority to suitable qualified local candidates where available.
In the case of the MTRC and the KCRC, both corporations are committed in principle to a policy of localization. This means in practice that expatriate employees are not forced to make way for local successors, but when they leave the corporations, efforts are made to replace them with local employees, subject to the latter having the necessary skills and experience. Internal training programmes are in place in both corporations to increase the pace of the development of local employees as part of their career development and succession planning.
DR SAMUEL WONG: Mr President, I have received several complaints in the past months from employees of one of these corporations that the same senior position does not carry the same salary package if it is filled by a local person. Could this Council be informed whether more attractive terms of engagement are still offered to prospective senior expatriate staff in these corporations?
CHIEF SECRETARY: Mr President, let me repeat a point I made earlier, with perhaps more emphasis. These statutory bodies are established by legislation approved by this Council to allow maximum operational independence and managerial autonomy for the effective and efficient performance of their statutory functions. They are not government departments; we do not believe it is appropriate for the Government to intervene in internal administrative matters such as personnel policy.
MR STEVEN POON: Mr President, would the Administration advise this Council of the executive directors in the MTRC and the KCRC how many are local and how many are expatriates? And with these numbers, is the Government satisfied that their commitment to the policy of localization has been a real one?
2354 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993 CHIEF SECRETARY: Mr President, may I defer to the Secretary for Transport?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT: Mr President, as the Chief Secretary said in his reply, the objective of creating corporations to run railways is to enable them to be autonomous in their managerial and financial affairs. The question as posed does not seem to be one in which the Government should intervene. I do not have the details available at hand but I will pass on the request to the corporations for them to consider in what form they would like to respond to this particular request. (Annex I)
MR ERIC LI (in Cantonese): Mr President, will the Administration inform this Council how long has elapsed since the corporations were asked to commit themselves in principle to a policy of localization? In view of the fact that no marked effect has been achieved, are there any attempts to implement such policy from within through the directors on the boards appointed by the Government?
CHIEF SECRETARY: Mr President, let me repeat again our position. It is not our policy to intervene in personnel management matters of these two authorities, and it is no part of the duty of the directors who are on the boards to try to enforce a policy from the Government. We would like to see, as I have said, those corporations encouraging local candidates where they are available, but we are not going to dictate to them how they manage their personnel relations.
MR FRED LI (in Cantonese): Mr President, the Mass Transit Railway Corporation is wholly-owned by the Government and has been operating for over 14 years. Mr LEUNG said just now that he did not have the details concerning the executive directors of the MTRC but as far as I know, only one of them is local while the rest are expatriates. For a corporation which has been in operation for 14 years, may I know why the majority of its executive directors are still expatriates?
CHIEF SECRETARY: Mr President, can I defer to the Secretary for Transport?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT: Mr President, I believe that the MTRC has performed its duties faithfully and efficiently over the last 14 years in running a safe and efficient railway service in Hong Kong. The records are here for all to see. It was the Government's intention in the beginning, when the relevant Ordinance was enacted, that the corporation should run on fully commercial
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993 2355
principles. For this reason the corporation has been given the autonomy to run its own affairs and set its own fare policies. To the extent that these policies are applied to a commercially run corporation like the MTRC, the corporation must be able to make its own decisions to get the best people available to run its affairs, regardless of race or nationality. To the extent that the corporation has done so well in the last decade or so, I believe this policy is the right one and I do not think that one should unnecessarily intervene or enforce a policy outside the corporation's own objectives to ensure localization.
But that said, the corporations do have a policy of localization and they do offer training programmes for their own staff and they do have succession planning to ensure that local talents, when available, are trained to meet the objectives of the corporations concerned. And this policy will continue.
DR CONRAD LAM (in Cantonese): Mr President, in his answers just now, the Chief Secretary said time and again that the Administration would not intervene in matters of personnel management of these corporations. But if problems of discrimination against locals do exist in the personnel management of these corporations, such as the unfair treatment in terms of salary package referred to by Dr Samuel WONG, is it the responsibility of the Government to consider whether it is necessary to revise its policies so that locals are given equal treatment?
CHIEF SECRETARY: Mr President, I think it is a fact that in commercial operations in Hong Kong, and in statutory corporations, there are differences in the remuneration packages for expatriates and local officers. That is current practice, I think, in a very large number of organizations. Obviously, if the state of affairs my honourable friend refers to leads to unhappiness or a lack of morale in the corporations concerned which affects their efficiency, that would be a matter of interest to the Government and we would certainly take it up with the corporation concerned.
MR CHEUNG MAN-KWONG (in Cantonese): Mr President, the Government has clearly indicated that the localization policy is only confined to government departments and civil servants for the moment, but nonetheless we still find the Government employ expatriate staff on contract terms to fill some very important posts instead of giving due weight to localization. This the Government does quite frequently. Will the Administration inform this Council whether the localization policy applies also to contract staff employed by the Government?
PRESIDENT: I am sorry, Mr CHEUNG. That question does not arise out of the main question or answer.
2356 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993
Before I turn to the next question, some Members are wearing stickers on their lapels or jackets. I think no matter how worthy the cause, we have got to draw the line at this type of exhibition and I would respectfully ask Members please to withdraw those stickers.
Central and Wan Chai Reclamation project
2. MR HOWARD YOUNG asked (in Cantonese): Will the Government inform this Council of:
(a) the present position regarding the extension of the validity of the tenders for the Central and Wan Chai Reclamation project; and
(b) the implications of such extension, or of a re-tendering if no further extension is granted, on:
(i) the target date for completion of the reclamation project;
(ii) the cost of the reclamation project;
(iii) the financing plan for the Airport Railway; and
(iv) the Airport Core Programme as a whole?
SECRETARY FOR WORKS: Mr President, in answer to the first part of the Honourable Member's question, Members will be aware that the Government announced on 8 March that the two lowest tenderers for the Central and Wan Chai Reclamation Phase 1 contract have agreed to extend the validity of their tenders for a further month from 8 March to 6 April 1993.
Phase 1 of the Central and Wan Chai reclamation will provide land for a number of purposes which will be of value to the development of Hong Kong. It is partly to accommodate the Airport Railway's Hong Kong Station; and is therefore included as one of the 10 core projects included in the Memorandum of Understanding(MOU). In the main however it is the first stage of providing new land for expansion of the central business district and long-term highway development along the north shore of the Island, under the Central and Wan Chai Reclamation land development strategy.
The Government's commitment to the Airport Railway, which is part of the Airport Core Programme, is undiminished. This extension of the tender validity period will give the Government more time to consider its options on the reclamation project. The decision to extend is therefore in line with the step-by-step approach that has been adopted to preserve the integrity of our timetable, which requires us to complete the Airport Railway to the maximum extent possible by 30 June 1997, in accordance with the MOU.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993 2357
The second part of the Honourable Member's question raises four points as to the implications of the extension we announced on 8 March, which I will take one by one:
(i) evaluation of the current tender proposals indicates that it will still be possible to complete the Central and Wan Chai Reclamation Phase 1 project by its target date of mid-1997. This will of course be subject to agreement with the tenderers before we are ready to make a contract award;
(ii) the cost of the reclamation project as set out in the Government's overall ACP budget is $2,827 million. We do not believe these consecutive extensions — this is the third — should result in a large cost increase given current market conditions. The exact amount will be a matter for negotiation and justification on a cost basis;
(iii) the present extension may have some very limited impact on the financing plan for the Airport Railway; and of course
(iv) the present extension has no direct impact on the Airport Core Programme as a whole, except that, as Members are aware, one purpose of the reclamation is to provide land for the Airport Railway's Hong Kong Station. Whilst design work on the Airport Railway including the Hong Kong Station is well under way, progress on the Airport Railway depends not only on this Phase 1 reclamation but also on reaching agreement with the Chinese side on financing arrangements for the Airport Railway.
MR HOWARD YOUNG: Mr President, my question was not just on extension but on retendering, which fortunately has not happened. Now bearing in mind that allowing a contract to lapse and therefore to retender would, I think, be very costly and time consuming, can the Government advise, should the extended validated date arrive and there still be no agreement from the Chinese authorities on the overall financing of the railway, whether it would then be possible for the whole Central and Wan Chai reclamation project to be segregated into two bits, so that the Wan Chai bit could proceed — because it has nothing to do with the railway — without holding up the whole project or causing a very costly retendering?
SECRETARY FOR WORKS: Mr President, obviously this supplementary is going outside the terms of the original question, as the Honourable Member has indicated. I think I can only say that at this point in time this extension is intended to give the Government further time to consider all of its options, and of course these options will embrace the Honourable Members' suggestions and we will take them into account.
2358 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993
PRESIDENT: You are content with that answer Mr YOUNG because you did ask as to the implications of a retendering and your question was therefore within the text of your main question? Are you content with that answer?
MR HOWARD YOUNG: Yes, Mr President, I am content. It was on retendering.
MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): Mr President, in the last paragraph of his reply, the Secretary has indicated that "the present extension has no direct impact on the Airport Core Programme as a whole". However should there be further extensions, I believe the reply would be substantially different. The Airport Railway will bring significant improvement to areas like Lantau Island, Kwai Chung, Tsing Yi and Kowloon. Now that the Administration extends the validity of the tenders for the Central and Wan Chai Reclamation project to 6 April, may I ask whether the Administration would seek, in the meantime, to resume talks with the Chinese side on the financing plan for the Airport Core Programme with a view to reaching a consensus so as to avoid further extensions due to China's unacceptance of the financing plan?
PRESIDENT: That question does go beyond the main question and answer, Mr Albert CHAN.
MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): Mr President, although in his reply the Secretary has given other reasons for the extensions, we understand that one of the most important reasons is the problems with the financing plan for the Airport Railway which makes it necessary to defer the Central reclamation project. And I think my question directly relates to the Central reclamation project since part of the reclaimed land forms the integral part of the Airport Railway.
PRESIDENT: Could you just point to the specific part of the answer which you think ought to be elucidated, Mr Albert CHAN? Then your question would be in order. Which part of the answer requires elucidation?
MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): Mr President, in subparagraph (iii) of the fourth paragraph of his reply, the Secretary mentions that "the present extension may have some very limited impact on the financing plan for the Airport Railway". May I know what is the "very limited impact" he refers to and whether the Administration would resume talks with the Chinese side on the financing plan for the Airport Railway in the light of that impact?
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993 2359 PRESIDENT: The first part of the question is a request for elucidation, Secretary.
SECRETARY FOR WORKS: Mr President, so far as the impact is concerned, obviously the present extension is very short and so this should have very minimum effect, if any, on the timing of the Hong Kong Station. However, the cumulative effects of the extension will need to be assessed to see if they have any impact on the overall Airport Railway financing. Only then will we be able to take a final view and this would depend upon the dates for the contract award and contract completion being finally established. So we do need this further extension to give us time to consider all of these options.
MRS PEGGY LAM (in Cantonese): Mr President, in the second paragraph of his reply, the Secretary Mr James BLAKE has mentioned that the Central and Wan Chai reclamation is to provide new land for expansion of the central business district and long-term development along the north shore of the Island. Will the Administration inform this Council, in developing the north shore of the Island, whether consideration will be given to allocating some land for building a town hall for that district? And, as Wan Chai is located between Central and Western district and Eastern district, there is in fact no more land available for development; coupled with the fact that commercial buildings will take the place of old buildings once they are demolished, the size of the population of the district will become smaller and smaller. Will the Administration inform this Council if it will devote some land for residential development?
SECRETARY FOR WORKS: Mr President, I am pleased to give some information which I am aware of. The purpose of the Central and Wan Chai strategy is three-fold:
(1) Extension of the business development.
(2) For long-term transportation needs.
(3) To upgrade and improve the areas of land along the north shore of the Island, which will be available for community purposes.
MRS PEGGY LAM (in Cantonese): Mr President, may I ask whether land will be provided for residential development? The Secretary has not answered this question.
2360 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993 SECRETARY FOR WORKS: I do not have with me the answer to that, Mr President.
PRESIDENT: Could an answer be supplied in writing?
SECRETARY FOR WORKS: An answer, I think, could be supplied, Mr President. (Annex II)
MR FREDERICK FUNG (in Cantonese): Mr President, the last sentence of the Secretary's reply says and I quote ".... progress on the Airport Railway depends not only on this Phase I reclamation but also on reaching agreement with the Chinese side on financing arrangements for the Airport Railway". My question is: whether the Administration has in mind when it will reach an agreement in this respect with the Chinese side? If yes, when? If no, how long can this reclamation project possibly be extended without delaying the completion of the Airport Railway beyond the target date of mid-1997 as mentioned in subparagraph (i) of the fourth paragraph of the reply?
SECRETARY FOR WORKS: Mr President, this is a very complex question. I am afraid that as far as the negotiations with the Chinese side are concerned, I can only say that we are making every effort to ensure that these go forward and we have indicated our willingness to proceed with these negotiations and of course the progress of the Airport Railway itself does depend upon our reaching agreement with the Chinese side. So far as dates are concerned which have been asked for in relation to the Airport Railway, this is rather speculative until we can make a firm decision and commitment on the date for the Central Reclamation itself, or, as I indicated in my answer, until the Mass Transit Railway Corporation for their part are proceeding in accordance with our general step-by-step strategy which is to prepare everything at this stage that can be done to ensure that when the approval for funding is agreed upon, then the actual physical programme can proceed at the maximum speed possible.
MR JIMMY McGREGOR: Mr President, if it is impossible to agree on a financing time for the new airport with the Chinese authorities soon, will the Government press ahead with the letting of this particular tender by 6 April? And if not, is there a date beyond which the Government will find it impossible to proceed without the authority of the Chinese Government?
SECRETARY FOR WORKS: Mr President, that, I am afraid, is a hypothetical question which I cannot give a hypothetical answer to. Thank you.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993 2361
PRESIDENT: But you might ask, Mr McGREGOR, whether there is a policy awaiting that contingency.
MR JIMMY McGREGOR: Yes, Mr President, is there a policy awaiting that contingency? (Laughter)
CHIEF SECRETARY: Mr President, we do not make it a habit of having hypothetical policies to meet hypothetical questions. (Laughter)
Relocation of non-production departments of companies
3. MR LAU CHIN-SHEK asked (in Cantonese): Will the Government inform this Council of the following:
(a) whether it has any statistics on the numbers of companies or factories incorporated in Hong Kong that have partly or wholly relocated their non production departments, such as the accounting and personnel departments, away from Hong Kong in the past three years; if so, the number of such cases and the number of local workers affected by such relocation;
(b) whether it has assessed the impact of the above situation on Hong Kong's economic development and labour market; if so, what the findings are; and
(c) what the Government will do to ensure that the local economy and labour market will not be adversely affected?
SECRETARY FOR TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Mr President, the Government does not have the statistics requested and has not carried out any specific study on the effects of the relocation outside Hong Kong of the non-production departments of Hong Kong companies or factories.
Nevertheless, the Government believes that such relocation would not adversely affect Hong Kong's economic development. On the contrary, we consider that the relocation of some labour-intensive non-production activities may help to maintain our competitiveness. It may also help economic development through a limited easing of the constraint engendered by the short supply of local labour.
We also do not consider that the local labour market would be adversely affected by such relocation. As the Financial Secretary has remarked in his Budget speech last week, Hong Kong's unemployment rate remains very low by world standards. There is steady growth in employment opportunities in the
2362 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993
services sector of the economy and there are considerable vacancies in many sectors of the economy. This is why the Hong Kong Government, in partnership with the private sector, is continuing to improve the efficiency of our labour force through education and training programmes so as to solve — at least partially — the problem of shortage of labour.
MR LAU CHIN-SHEK (in Cantonese): Mr President, according to the Secretary's reply, the Administration does not have the statistics requested and has not carried out any specific study. Redistribution of jobs abroad in the services sector has become a new trend which is in fact a further division of labour on a regional level instead of a manifestation of economic transformation, and is believed to be a hindrance to the technological development of Hong Kong. It will also affect the employees in this sector in terms of employment and salaries and may make them worry about their job prospect. According to the analysis of the Economic Monthly published by the Hang Seng Bank Limited, 7% of the jobs in the services sector can be redistributed abroad and the number of employees that might be affected is as high as 120 000. Will the Administration conduct an overall survey to assess the impact of the growing trend of redistribution of jobs in the supporting services sector on our economy and on our labour situation, and formulate accordingly a policy on human resources, instead of just acting on what it "believes" to be?
PRESIDENT: That last remark was not in order, Mr LAU.
SECRETARY FOR TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Mr President, Hong Kong has a free market economy; it is a totally open economy. We do not control outward investment and so we do not have any mechanism to collect statistics in this area. We also do not consider it cost-effective to go to the time and expense of collecting and maintaining data bases that would enable us to provide the statistics on relocation. I believe, Mr President, that such a survey would be an expensive and time-consuming one to conduct and it would be out of date by the time we had collected the relevant statistics. So my answer is that we do not have such plans to collect such statistics.
MR VINCENT CHENG: Mr President, can the Secretary confirm to this Council that it is not within the Government's power to stop companies moving part of their operations to China and that the Government has no right to intervene in such matters?
SECRETARY FOR TRADE AND INDUSTRY: The answer to both questions is yes, Mr President.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993 2363
MR MARTIN BARROW: Mr President, given that labour shortages extend to the Government itself, I am very relieved that the Administration is not spending a lot of time digging out the statistics which Mr LAU has requested. Would the Secretary not agree that the only way to alleviate Mr LAU's implied concern is to allow an increase in the number of imported workers? And if so, what steps does the Government plan to take in this direction? And will the Secretary explain to the community as a whole why it is in everyone's interest to maintain our service standards in Hong Kong which can only be done if there is adequate supply of labour?
SECRETARY FOR TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Mr President, with your permission, I would like to refer this question to my colleague, the Secretary for Education and Manpower.
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER: Thank you, Mr President. We do allow the importation of workers from outside Hong Kong in a carefully controlled manner to alleviate manpower shortages in bottleneck areas. The current maximum level of importation is 25 000 at any one time. The Administration keeps this level under constant review in the light of developments in the labour market. As regards Mr BARROW's last point, I am sure that the service industries themselves are much better placed than the Administration to explain why it is important to maintain service standards in Hong Kong.
MR TAM YIU-CHUNG (in Cantonese): Mr President, the Secretary said in his reply that there was no such "statistics", but may I ask if he has any "projection" as to whether the number of employees in the manufacturing industry will continue to fall in, say, the coming few years, and the extent of the fall?
SECRETARY FOR TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Mr President, we do not have the data base necessary to make such forecasts. And especially since there is no control over the exportation of jobs, so to speak, and no control over outward investment, we have no means really of even forecasting what the likely number of manufacturing workers is going to be in the next few years.
DR HUANG CHEN-YA (in Cantonese): Mr President, the Administration keeps under review the problems encountered by the manufacturing industry and releases report on them regularly. Will the Secretary inform this Council whether the Administration will conduct similar studies on the services sector or the services departments of the manufacturing industry in order to know better their situations, the move they are about to make and the problems they are facing, such that it can formulate assistance plans to help the services sector
2364 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993
improve their productivity and lower their non-labour costs, rather than just laying all the blames on labour shortage?
SECRETARY FOR TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Mr President, as I have explained in reply to an earlier supplementary question, we do not consider it cost-effective to spend time and expenditure on collecting and maintaining statistics of the type referred to.
MR HOWARD YOUNG: Mr President, is the Secretary aware that on 29 January 1992 in this Council when we were debating the importation of labour, in the presence of the Secretary for Education and Manpower, the Honourable Martin Barrow on that day said:
"We must recognize that Hong Kong can only remain competitive in the service sector if there is labour available. For example, take tourism ..... If we want overseas companies to continue to use Hong Kong as their regional headquarters we must show they can staff their operations at competitive rates at all levels.";
and that I also, at the same debate, said:
"Quite apart from the manufacturing industry there are other industries which can be relocated. If we cannot find a solution to the problems of labour shortage, then employers unable to find workers will be forced to give up Hong Kong as their operating base.";
and that such remarks might help the Government in finding ways to keep business and industry and jobs in Hong Kong?
PRESIDENT: Your question has either got to seek information from the Government or ask for official action, Mr YOUNG. Does your question do either of those things?
MR HOWARD YOUNG: Mr President, I was asking the Secretary whether he was aware that remarks in that debate might help to prevent the sort of situation that the Honourable LAU Chin-shek is feeling, that is to say, to prevent jobs from going elsewhere and to keep jobs in Hong Kong.
PRESIDENT: I am sorry, Mr YOUNG. I think that does stray beyond the type of permissible question, I fear.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993 2365
MR HENRY TANG: Mr President, will the Secretary confirm that while we have no regulations regarding the exportation of jobs or outward investment, we do however expend vigorous efforts to maintain and to uphold the integrity of our multilateral obligations as well as bilateral obligations to safeguard the integrity of our domestic regulations like Country of Origin? And furthermore, could the Secretary estimate, or guess, the contribution of this economic integration between Hong Kong and China with regard to our growth rate and job opportunities that it has created?
PRESIDENT: Mr TANG, I am afraid you have lost me! (Laughter) Your question would have to be directed to seeking information or asking for official action, in the terms of Standing Orders. Could you just put the question again please?
MR HENRY TANG: Mr President, would the first part of the question be within Standing Orders?
PRESIDENT: So far as it makes the question intelligible, yes. But I am not sure what information you are seeking.
MR HENRY TANG: I will rephrase the question, Mr President. Considering that there is no policy to prevent outward investment or to discourage outward investment, is there any policy to safeguard the obligations of our multilateral agreements as well as bilateral agreements, such as Country of Origin Regulations?
PRESIDENT: That goes well beyond the original question and answer.
Loanshark activities in Tuen Mun and Yuen Long
4. DR TANG SIU-TONG asked (in Cantonese): In connection with loanshark syndicates operating in Tuen Mun and Yuen Long offering loans to housewives in public housing estates at exorbitant annual interest rates, will the Government inform this Council:
(a) whether the police have collected sufficient information on these syndicates and whether the information indicates that their activities are now under control or becoming more serious;
(b) what police action was taken in the past two years against such syndicates and how effective such action was;
2366 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993
(c) whether the police have worked out an effective plan to prevent loanshark activities in newly completed housing estates in Tuen Mun and Yuen Long, such as Tin Yiu Estate in Tin Shui Wai, since these are the favourite operating grounds of most loanshark syndicates; and
(d) whether the existing penalty is considered adequate and effective as deterrent to these illegal activities; if not, what measures would be taken?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, the police have collected a considerable amount of intelligence about loansharking syndicates operating in the Tuen Mun and Yuen Long districts. The police assessment is that the problem is not deteriorating, although equally it cannot be described as being under control. The main problem which the police face in combatting loansharking is the reluctance of the public to report cases to them.
In the past two years, the police have received 12 reports of loansharking in Tuen Mun and five in Yuen Long. Two cases in Tuen Mun were prosecuted. However, because of the lack of evidence, the three defendants in these two cases were acquitted. All of the reports in Yuen Long were anonymous and could not be pursued. Apart from investigating all reports received, the police also take the initiative to mount special undercover operations against loansharks. But again, the effectiveness of these operations has been hampered by the reluctance of the public to give evidence for investigation and prosecution.
To prevent loansharking activities in newly completed public housing estates, the police and Housing Department staff have taken a number of measures. The Police Community Relations Officers liaise closely with community organizations to warn of the dangers of borrowing from loansharks, and to encourage residents to report loansharking cases to the police. At briefings for new tenants of housing estates, the danger posed by loansharks is highlighted. Estate staff also provide assistance to the police in operations against loansharks.
Under section 24 of the Money Lenders Ordinance, the maximum penalty for the offence of lending money at an excessive interest rate is a fine of $100,000 and imprisonment for two years. The Organized and Serious Crimes Bill, when enacted, should provide more effective powers to the police to tackle loansharking, and heavier penalties for those convicted of loansharking offences, including confiscation of the proceeds of such crimes.
DR TANG SIU-TONG (in Cantonese): Mr President, given the reluctance of the public in reporting cases and giving evidence in court, the undercover operation may well be an effective way of collecting evidence. Will the Administration
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993 2367
step up its efforts in this respect? And according to the information available with the police, did these loansharking syndicates have the support of triad societies? If so, how will the police tackle this problem?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, the loansharking syndicates are not necessarily triad societies but it is probably the case that the triads are involved in most such syndicates. Loansharking is, very often, a form of organized crime and therefore, as I said in my main answer, I do believe that the powers given by the Organized and Serious Crimes Bill, when enacted, will enable police operations against such syndicates to be much more effective.
MR VINCENT CHENG: Mr President, could the Secretary tell us what sort of interest rates are charged by these loansharks because I suppose they would make bankers look like Mother Teresa in some sense? (Laughter)
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, I do not have the answer to such a question. Certainly they are excessive in terms of the Money Lenders Ordinance.
DR LAM KUI-CHUN: Mr President, in the first paragraph of his answer the Secretary for Security stated that the problem cannot be described as being under control. Does the Government have a plan beyond the Organized and Serious Crimes Bill to bring the problem under control? If yes, what is the plan, and if not, why not?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, the police are very anxious to tackle this problem and we do intend to provide them with additional powers to do so under the Organized and Serious Crimes Bill. But, as I have said, it is not possible for the police to prosecute most of these cases without evidence in the form of witnesses who are prepared to come forward and testify.
MRS MIRIAM LAU: Mr President, bearing in mind that the main problem is the reluctance of the public to report cases, can the Secretary inform this Council whether the police have been able to ascertain the reasons for such reluctance and what efforts, other than that made by the Police Community Relations Officers as referred to in the third paragraph, have been made to address the concerns of the public and encourage them to come forward?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, I believe that the fear of reprisal must be a very big factor in the reluctance of the public to come forward to give evidence and to testify in court. The police and the
2368 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993
Fight Crime Committee and even the District Fight Crime Committees have put a considerable amount of effort into trying to persuade the public that it is in their interests to give information, to report such crimes and to be willing to give evidence, and these efforts will continue.
MR SIMON IP: Mr President, would the Secretary for Security please inform this Council whether the Administration considers the maximum penalty under section 24 to be adequate and how the Organized and Serious Crimes Bill, if and when enacted, will impose heavier penalties for loansharking?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, the police have reviewed the penalty in section 24 of the Money Lenders Ordinance and their conclusion is that the penalty is adequate. The root of the problem is not the adequacy of the penalty but, as I have said, the difficulty of bringing cases to a successful conclusion in court and it is that problem that really must be addressed. As I said also in my main answer, the Organized and Serious Crimes Bill, when enacted, will provide much greater powers of investigation of organized crime, including money lending syndicates, and it will also enable much greater monetary penalties, in terms of the confiscation of assets, to be imposed on persons who are convicted.
MR GILBERT LEUNG (in Cantonese): Mr President, the Secretary emphasized in the first paragraph of his answer that the police had collected intelligence about loansharking syndicates. In the second paragraph, however, he confirmed that up to now there had not been any successful prosecution of loansharking syndicates. Could the Administration inform this Council what positive measures it has in place to prosecute the persons concerned, or to review the present investigation procedures, so that the Administration will not be powerless as to what to do under such situation?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, there is of course a very great difference between intelligence and evidence; the police have a great deal of intelligence. It is very difficult to produce that as evidence in court without witnesses. That is the root of the problem and that is what we are going to seek to remedy.
REV FUNG CHI-WOOD (in Cantonese): Mr President, the Secretary mentioned in the third paragraph of his answer that the police and Housing Department staff have taken a number of measures in newly completed housing estates. The ways loansharking syndicates go about advertising their services in housing estates are mainly through posting or painting advertisements onto walls or inside lifts. May I ask the Administration if there are any measures to reduce or prevent the posting or painting of such advertisements, for example by acting on
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993 2369
the information contained in the advertisements or tracking down the relevant persons by using the telephone numbers appearing on the advertisements?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, the Housing Department staff will take action to prevent or to remove advertisements put up in housing estates. It is true that that is a common form for loansharking syndicates to try to advertise their services. The Housing Department will also report to the police if there is any criminal action which has been committed and the police will then follow up and take action themselves.
Debt collecting agencies
5. MR FREDERICK FUNG asked (in Cantonese): In view of a number of recent complaints from the public about debt collecting agents adopting modus operandi which pose serious threat to the people concerned and cause nuisance to their families and neighbours, will the Government inform this Council:
(a) whether it monitor the operation of debt collecting companies in respect of their methods of collecting debts and the background of the operators;
(b) whether it is permissible under the ordinances relating to the regulation of the banks and deposit taking companies for them to commission a third party (such as a debt collecting company) to recover outstanding loans; if so, whether such provision will be reviewed; and
(c) whether the undertakings concerned have any criminal liabilities if the companies or agents they commission to recover the debts commit a criminal offence (such as criminal damage or intimidation) in the course of providing the service?
SECRETARY FOR MONETARY AFFAIRS: Mr President, debt collection is a legitimate activity and the Administration does not consider that there is any prudential need for monitoring or regulation. However, if individual debt collectors were to resort to illegal means to pursue their business, such as criminal damage, intimidation or violence, this would be a law and order matter that would fall to be dealt with by the police. I shall reply to Mr FUNG's questions against this background.
On the first point:
(a) There is no supervision of the operation of debt collecting companies.
2370 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993 On the second point:
(b) Hong Kong's banking legislation does not contain provisions dealing with the hiring of third parties by authorized institutions to assist in the recovery of outstanding loans. The system of banking supervision is not geared towards the regulation of the day-to-day operation of institutions, such as the way in which outstanding loans are recovered.
Finally,
(c) Whether or not an institution can be implicated in criminal acts committed by its agents will depend on the circumstances of the case.
Legal advice suggests that a person in his individual capacity or a person acting on behalf of an organization will not normally be held liable for the actions of the debt collecting agents commissioned by him to collect debts for him or his organization. The person may, however, become criminally liable if he counsels, procures, aids or abets the agent to commit a criminal offence.
MR FREDERICK FUNG (in Cantonese): Mr President, in the past three months there had been reports of banks and finance companies commissioning debt collecting agencies to collect debts which is not only a harassment to the people concerned, but also a threat and nuisance to their neighbours. Has the police or the Security Branch considered taking precautionary measures such as looking into the licensing of debt collecting agencies or finding out whether their employees have triad connections?
SECRETARY FOR MONETARY AFFAIRS: Mr President, I defer to the Secretary for Security.
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, we have not considered any proposal to license or regulate debt collecting agencies. It is true that the police do receive complaints of criminal behaviour on the part of debt collecting agencies, threatening behaviour, intimidation or even criminal damage and these offences are investigated in the same way as for any other criminal offence. The police do not have any proposals to take any special action against such offences as distinct from other similar offences unrelated to debt collection.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993 2371
MR RONALD ARCULLI: Mr President, since the filing of this question, has the Monetary Affairs Branch actually gone into discussion with the Secretary for Security, or indeed the police, to ascertain the scope of the problem, and if not, why not?
SECRETARY FOR MONETARY AFFAIRS: Mr President, certainly there has been contact between the Monetary Affairs Branch and the Secretary for Security. But, as I indicated in my main answer, there is no regulation or supervision over the activities of debt collectors and therefore there is no statistical base or data base on their activities. From the point of view of the Monetary Affairs Branch, I would say that it should be borne in mind that banks and other institutions are but one of the users of the services of debt collectors and if there were to be a genuine concern about criminal acts of debt collectors in general, it had to be addressed from a law and order angle.
MR JAMES TO (in Cantonese): Mr President, I understand that many banks and credit card companies would have preferred not to commission debt collecting agencies to recover the outstanding loans. It is however very difficult for them to recover these debts through proper legal means, even with the help of a lawyer, or a judgement order from court. May I ask the Secretary and the relevant Government departments if the existing legislation has been reviewed to see if there are loopholes, making it difficult for banks and credit card companies to recover the money due even with the help of a lawyer or a judgement order from court, and they have to, as there is no other resort, but turn to debt collecting agencies to do the job for them? May we be advised if there have been such requests from the banking sector or credit card companies?
PRESIDENT: I think that question does go outside the main question and answer, Mr TO.
MR JAMES TO (in Cantonese): Mr President, we are talking about the behaviour of some debt collecting agencies here, and the way I see it is that there is no market for these agencies if finance companies and banks recover the loans themselves through legitimate or proper means. Will the Administration reconsider the issue in the light of this?
PRESIDENT: It still goes beyond what is permissible because strictly a supplementary should seek only to elucidate the main answer and your question goes really quite beyond that.
2372 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993 MR JAMES TO (in Cantonese): Mr President, may I ask another question?
PRESIDENT: Yes.
MR JAMES TO (in Cantonese): Mr President, the Administration has mentioned in its reply that debt collection is a legitimate activity and does not consider that there is any need for monitoring or regulation. Many debt collecting agencies however are stretching that a bit and turn a lawful activity to one that is close to being unlawful, that is, what we call the "marginal" behaviour, in order to recover the loans successfully. Does the Administration consider such behaviour warrant a study and monitoring?
SECRETARY FOR MONETARY AFFAIRS: Mr President, certainly the Government is concerned that breaches of the criminal law by debt collectors should be dealt with properly by the police according to law. From the point of view of legitimate users of debt collectors and the legitimate operation of debt collection, and very specifically from the point of view of the banks, we would certainly agree that banks should exercise due care in their choice of an agent and should as far as possible ensure that their agents would not be using illegal or even improper means in rendering their service. The Hong Kong Association of Banks has been warned of the potential danger and the potential damage to the industry in general and the concerned institution, in particular, if authorized institutions are seen to be hiring debt collectors who use illegal means to recover debts. The Association has issued a circular to its members to the same effect. However, no specific complaints about the use of debt collection agencies by authorized institutions have been drawn to the attention of the Commissioner of Banking. But in view of the concern that has been expressed the Commissioner will be writing to the Hong Kong Association of Banks and the Deposit taking Companies Association to remind them that he expects authorized institutions to take adequate steps to monitor and control the activities of agencies they are responsible for appointing to act on their behalf.
MR SIMON IP: Mr President, so far as the activities of debt collecting agencies are sometimes allied with the activities of loansharks, will the Administration consider a coherent and common strategy to deal with both situations?
SECRETARY FOR MONETARY AFFAIRS: Mr President, I refer this question, with your permission, to the Secretary for Security.
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, there is really a clear distinction between debt collection and loansharking. The collection of legitimate debts is, as the Secretary for Monetary Affairs has said, a perfectly legitimate activity.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993 2373
Loansharking is not, and almost invariably loansharks will use unlawful means to try to collect their debts. So, I do not believe that the two questions are linked in the way that has been suggested.
MR MARTIN LEE: Mr President, does the Administration not realize that a creditor would not go to solicitors to collect debts but go to these debt collectors because the former lack the necessary muscle and the latter have plenty of it and will the Administration continue to turn a blind eye to the obvious muscle?
PRESIDENT: Could you try to reformulate that in a way which brings your question within Standing Orders where you seek elucidation of the main answer and seek information or ask for official action, Mr LEE?
MR MARTIN LEE: I understand, Mr President, you do not like the word "muscle". I will rephrase the question. Does the Administration know that creditors go to these debt collectors and not to lawyers because they expect extra-legal means to be used by these debt collectors and that therefore it is irresponsible of the Administration not to do something about it?
PRESIDENT: I think that is predicated on an opinion which I am not going to allow, Mr LEE.
Address
Consumer Council Annual Report for 1991-92
PRESIDENT: Miss Anna WU, owing to a misunderstanding I fear you are not on the Order Paper as addressing Council on your presentation of the Consumer Council Annual Report 1991-92. I would now rectify that misunderstanding. You do wish to address Council?
MS ANNA WU: Yes, I do. Thank you very much, Mr President, and I apologize for the misunderstanding.
My honourable colleagues, it gives me great pleasure to present the Annual Report of the Consumer Council for the year 1991 to 1992. This report marks the 18th year of the operation of the Consumer Council. During the year under review, the jurisdiction of the Consumer Council was extended in two respects. First, the authority of the Consumer Council was extended to cover immovable property transactions and tenancy matters which affect the lives of many. Second, Hong Kong and China Gas Company Limited and
2374 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993
Peak Tramways Company Limited were brought within the purview of the Consumer Council.
One of the important functions of the Consumer Council is to encourage service providers to be more responsive to the needs of consumers. One way of enabling this to be done is to have consumer participation in important matters such as the setting of charges. The Consumer Council's proposal for the establishment of consumer consultative groups has made a lot of headway. Hong Kong Telephone Company Limited and China Light and Power Company Limited have now set up consumer consultative groups to facilitate consumer representation.
Legislative measures initiated by the Consumer Council and accepted by the Government during the year included the recommendation to set up an independent fund to compensate clients of defunct tour agents and to raise the level of compensation payable to their clients.
The Toys and Childrens' Products Safety Bill was also introduced during the year and I am glad to say that this has been passed into law and will become effective in July this year.
In the area of property transactions, the Consumer Council has been successful in persuading the Government and the developers to adopt a balloting system in the pre-sale of property and to issue brochures containing essential information.
The Consumer Council has been and will remain a close ally of environment protection and green consumerism. Much of the Council's research, promotion and education effort has been devoted to these needs. In the years to come the Consumer Council will need to co-operate with various government authorities and organizations to further the interests in these areas.
Of growing concern to the Consumer Council are the areas of unfair trade practices and consumer redress. The Consumer Council is considering whether it is necessary and feasible to introduce fair trading law and consumer representative actions in Hong Kong. I am sure these measures, when introduced, will benefit the consumer greatly and enhance the competitive environment in Hong Kong.
Mr President, my honourable colleagues, my account would not be complete without a mention of the 13th World Congress of the International Organization of Consumers Union which the Consumer Council of Hong Kong co-organized and hosted in Hong Kong.
Thank you very much, Mr President. I am much obliged.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993 2375 Written answers to questions
Status of Chinese medicine practitioners
6. DR PHILIP WONG asked: Will the Government inform this Council what measures have been or will be adopted to establish the professional status of traditional Chinese medicine practitioners since the publication of the Interim Report of the Working Group on Chinese Medicine in October 1991 so that they may contribute more effectively in their service to the public?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr President, the Government is awaiting the final recommendations of the Working Party on Chinese Medicine.
Since publication of its Interim Report last year, the Working Party has received over 200 representations from professionals, professional and community organizations and members of the public. It has studied the views received and is now finalizing its recommendations. It is expected that the Final Report of the Working Party will be submitted to the Administration within this year.
Employment of handicapped workers
7. MRS ELSIE TU asked: Will the Administration advise this Council whether it is aware that some handicapped workers are losing their jobs as a result of office automation and moving of factories across the border; if so, what efforts are being made to assist these workers in seeking alternative employment and how successful these measures are?
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER: Mr President, the Administration is aware that some handicapped workers have been displaced as a result of office automation and moving of factories across the border. However, many of those affected have found alternative employment in the growing service industries.
The main loss of jobs for disabled workers due to office automation has been in respect of blind telephonists. To assist those affected to seek alternative employment, the Vocational Training Council has changed its Telephone Operator Course to an Office Reception Course which incorporates training in computer skills related to office practice. These additional skills, when used in conjunction with special technical aids for the visually impaired, will enable them to perform a wider range of duties. For employers who wish to make the necessary office adaptation to accommodate disabled persons, financial assistance and technical advice are available under an Employaid Scheme funded by the Community Chest.
2376 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993
To take advantage of the increased demand for workers in the service sector, the Vocational Training Council has also introduced General Services courses for the mentally disabled. Graduates from these courses generally have no problem in finding employment in areas such as cleaning, fast food, general office work and messengerial service.
The Selective Placement Division of the Labour Department, in conjunction with the Vocational Training Council and the Rehabilitation Development Co-ordinating Committee, will continue to provide counselling, assessment and placement services and explore new employment avenues for the disabled. In 1992, the Division dealt with 2 705 disabled job applicants and succeeded in placing 1 366 of them in jobs compatible with their ability and aptitude.
Control of fireworks and firecrackers
8. MR GILBERT LEUNG asked (in Chinese): Will the Government inform this Council:
(a) of the basis on which the Administration decided to impose a strict control over the letting-off of firecrackers and the display of fireworks in the late 1960s; whether the decision has been reviewed by the Administration since then; if so, what the findings of the review are; if not, of the reasons for not doing so; and
(b) whether consideration would be given to relaxing such control during the Lunar New Year so that the letting-off of firecrackers and the display of fireworks would be allowed in designated locations; if so, when such arrangements would be put into effect and what the details would be; if not, of the reasons for not doing so?
SECRETARY FOR RECREATION AND CULTURE: Mr President, the existing controls on the discharge of firecrackers and display of fireworks were imposed in 1967 in the interests of public safety and security against a background with which the community is familiar.
We have periodically considered whether these controls should be relaxed. The ban on the public displays of fireworks was first relaxed in 1975 for the celebration of the Royal Visit. This policy was further revised in 1982 when the Governor in Council decided that displays of fireworks could be held on appropriate Chinese festival days as well as on occasions of special importance to Hong Kong. Indeed, since 1982, fireworks displays have been held annually with commercial sponsorship to celebrate Lunar New Year and also periodically to celebrate occasions of importance.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993 2377
More recently, we have decided to relax the ban further to allow the use of pyrotechnics for film and television programme productions as well as for theatrical performances, subject to permit.
As regards firecrackers, the dangers of allowing easy individual access to them have become a matter of increasing concern worldwide. Fireworks are fire hazards. Additionally, every year, many people — particularly children — suffer serious burns and other injuries through mishandling of fireworks and firecrackers. Our existing regulations have thus served us well in preventing such hazards for over 25 years. Doing away with these regulations, even for designated locations, would be a retrogressive step. We have, therefore, concluded that, while the security considerations referred to in the first paragraph above may no longer apply, it remains in the interests of public safety to maintain the current restrictions.
Student unions in secondary schools
9. MR LAU CHIN-SHEK asked (in Chinese): In view of the significance of organizing students' unions in secondary schools to the development of civic education, will the Government inform this Council:
(a) of the number of secondary schools where students' unions have been formed, with a list of these schools provided;
(b) how executive committee members of such students' unions are normally selected;
(c) whether there are any policies or measures at present to encourage the formation of more students' unions in secondary schools; if not, whether consideration will be given to formulating such policies or measures; and
(d) whether it will consider setting aside a specific allocation under the provisions for education for subsidizing students' unions in secondary schools in order to encourage and facilitate the development of students' unions?
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER: Mr President, the answers to Mr LAU's question are as follows:
(a) There are at present 198 secondary schools with student associations. A list of these schools is annexed.
2378 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993
(b) The Education Department (ED) has no specific information on the practice adopted by individual schools. The Department understands, however, that executive committee members of student associations are normally elected by the students themselves.
(c) The ED actively encourages schools to set up student associations. Its "Guidelines on Civic Education" promote the formation of student associations as a means of developing the students' sense of responsibility as well as enhancing their social and political awareness. To assist teachers in advising their students on the operation of student associations, reference materials are available in ED's Civic Education Resource Centres.
(d) Each secondary school in the public sector is given a School and Class Grant (amounting to $400,000 a year for a standard-class school) to cover the cost of extra-curricular activities, including the setting up of student associations. It is not considered necessary to provide schools with separate funds for this purpose.
Secondary Schools with Student Associations
(as at 1.3.1993)
Sequence
number School name
1 Aberdeen Technical School
2 Belilios Public School
3 Bethel High School
4 Buddhist Hung Sean Chau Memorial College
5 Buddhist Sum Heung Lam Memorial College
6 Buddhist Tai Hung College
7 Buddhist Wong Fung Ling College
8 Buddhist Wong Wan Tin College
9 Caritas Chan Chun Ha Prevocational School - Fanling
10 Caritas Chan Chun Ha Prevocational School - Yuen Long
11 Caritas St. Francis Prevocational School
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993 2379
Sequence
number School name
12 Caritas St. Godfrey Prevocational School
13 Caritas St. Joseph Prevocational School
14 Cheng Chek Chee Secondary School of Sai Kung and Hang Hau District, N.T.
15 Cheung Sha Wan Catholic Secondary School
16 Cheung Sha Wan Government Secondary School
17 Chinese Y.M.C.A. College
18 Chinese Y.M.C.A. Secondary School
19 Choi Hung Estate Catholic Secondary School
20 Christ College
21 Chu Hai College
22 Chuen Yuen College
23 Chung Sang Middle Night School
24 Church of Christ in China Kwei Wah Shan College
25 Church of Christ in China Rotary Prevocational School
26 Cognitio College (Kowloon)
27 Concordia Lutheran School - North Point
28 Cotton Spinners Association Prevocational School
29 Delia Memorial Boys School (Mei Foo)
30 Delia Memorial School (Mei Foo)
31 Delia Memorial School (Taikoo Shing)
32 Delia Memorial School (Tsuen Wan)
2380 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993
Sequence
number School name
33 Delia Memorial School (Yuet Wah)
34 Diocesan Girls' School
35 Five Districts Business Welfare Association Seeto Ho School 36 Fukien Middle School
37 Fung Kai No. 1 Secondary School
38 General Chamber of Commerce and Industry of the Tung Kun District Lau Pak Lok Secondary School
39 Gertrude Simon Lutheran College
40 Good Hope School
41 Ha Kwai Chung Government Secondary Technical School
42 Heep Woh College
43 Heep Yunn School
44 Henrietta School
45 Heung to Middle School
46 Ho Fung College (Sponsored by Sik Sik Yuen)
47 Ho Tung Technical School for Girls
48 Hoi Ping Chamber of Commerce Secondary School
49 Holm Glad College
50 Holy Family Canossian College
51 Holy Trinity College
52 Hon Wah Middle School
53 Hong Kong Chinese Women's Club College
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993 2381
Sequence
number School name
54 Hong Kong Tang King Po College
55 Hong Kong Taoist Association the Yuen Yuen Institute No. 1 Secondary School
56 Hong Kong True Light College
57 Immaculate Heart of Mary College
58 Islamic College
59 Island School
60 Jockey Club Government Secondary Technical School
61 Jockey Club Ti-I College
62 Kei Long College
63 Kiangsu-Chekiang College
64 King's College
65 Kowloon Technical School
66 Kowloon True Light Middle School
67 Kung Lee College
68 Kwok Tak Seng Catholic Secondary School
69 Kwun Tong Government Secondary School
70 Kwun Tong Government Secondary Technical School
71 Kwun Tong Maryknoll College
72 La Salle College
73 Lai Chack Middle School
74 Lai King Catholic Secondary School
2382 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993
Sequence
number School name
75 Lam Woo Memorial Secondary School
76 Lee I Yao Memorial Secondary School
77 Lee Kau Yan Memorial School
78 Lingnan Secondary School
79 Lok Sin Tong Ku Chiu Man Secondary School
80 Lok Sin Tong Yu Kan Hing School
81 Lui Ming Choi Lutheran College
82 Lung Cheung Government Secondary Technical School
83 Lutheran Middle School
84 Madam Lau Kam Lung Secondary School of Mui Fat Buddhist Monastery 85 Marden Foundation Caritas Prevocational School - Chai Wan 86 Marden Foundation Caritas Prevocational School - Sha Tin 87 Maryknoll Convent School
88 Marymount Secondary School
89 Matteo Ricci College, Kowloon
90 Methodist College
91 Ming Kei College (Anglo-Chinese)
92 Ming Yin College
93 Mongkok Workers' Children School
94 Munsang College
95 Nam Wah Catholic Secondary School
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993 2383
Sequence
number School name
96 Newman College
97 Ng Wah College - Secondary
98 Ng Yuk Secondary School
99 Notre Dame College
100 NTHYK Southern District Secondary School
101 NTHYK Yuen Long District Secondary School
102 Our Lady of the Rosary College
103 Our Lady's College
104 Pak Kau English School
105 Pak Kau English School (H.K.)
106 Pak U Middle School
107 Po Chiu College
108 Po Kok Girls' Middle School
109 Po Leung Kuk 1983 Board of Directors' College
110 Po Leung Kuk C.F.A. No.1 College
111 Po Leung Kuk C.W. Chu Prevocational School
112 Po Leung Kuk Centenary College
113 Po Leung Kuk Lee Shing Pik College
114 Po Leung Kuk Tang Yuk Tien College
115 Po Leung Kuk Vicwood K.T. Chong Sixth Form College 116 Po Leung Kuk Wu Chung College
117 Po Leung Kuk Yao Ling Sun College
2384 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993
Sequence
number School name
118 Pooi To Middle School
119 Pooi Tun Secondary School
120 Precious Blood Girls' Middle School
121 Pui Ching Middle School
122 Pui Kiu Middle School
123 Pui Shing Catholic Secondary School
124 Pui Tak Canossian College
125 Pui Ying Secondary School
126 Queen Elizabeth School
127 Queen's College
128 R.T.C. Alumni Association School
129 Raimondi College
130 Rosaryhill School
131 S.K.H. Leung Kwai Yee Secondary School
132 Sacred Heart Canossian College
133 Salesian English School
134 Salesians of Don Bosco Ng Siu Mui Technical School 135 Sha Tin Government Secondary School
136 Sha Tin Methodist College
137 Shau Kei Wan Government Secondary School
138 Shau Kei Wan Government Secondary Technical School 139 Shek Lei Catholic Secondary School
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993 2385
Sequence
number School name
140 Sheng Kung Hui Bishop Mok Sau Tseng Secondary School 141 Sheng Kung Hui Kei Hau Secondary School
142 Sheng Kung Hui Tsang Shiu Tim Secondary School
143 Sheung Kwai Chung Government Secondary Technical School 144 Shun Lee Catholic Secondary School
145 Shun Tak Fraternal Association Tam Pak Yu College
146 Sing Yin Secondary School
147 St. Benedict's Secondary Technical School
148 St. Bonaventure College and High School
149 St. Catharine's School for Girls, Kwun Tong
150 St. Clare's Girls' School
151 St. Francis Canossian College
152 St. Francis of Assisi's College
153 St. Francis Xavier's School, Tsuen Wan
154 St. Louis School
155 St. Margaret's College
156 St. Margaret's Girls' College, Hong Kong (Caine Road)
157 St. Margaret's Girls' College, Kowloon
158 St. Margaret's Girls' College, Kwai Chung
159 St. Mark's School
160 St. Mary's Canossian College
161 St. Paul's Co-Educational College
2386 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993
Sequence
number School name
162 St. Paul's College
163 St. Paul's School (Lam Tin)
164 St. Stephen's College
165 St. Stephen's Church College
166 St. Stephen's Girls' College
167 St. Teresa Secondary School
168 Sung Lan Middle School
169 Sung Tsun Secondary School, Sai Kung
170 Tack Ching Girls' Middle School
171 Tak Nga Secondary School
172 Tak Oi Secondary School
173 Tang King Po School
174 Tang Shiu Kin Victoria Technical School
175 Textile Institute American Chamber of Commerce Woo Hon Fai Prevocational School
176 The Bishop Hall Jubilee School
177 The Church of Christ in China Mong Man Wai College
178 The Pentecostal Holiness Church Wing Kwong College
179 The South Island School
180 The True Light Middle School of Hong Kong
181 Tin Kwong Road Government Secondary School
182 Tsuen Wan Government Secondary School
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993 2387
Sequence
number School name
183 Tsung Tsin College (Shaukiwan)
184 Tuen Mun Government Secondary School
185 Tung Wah Group of Hospitals Chen Zao Men College
186 Tung Wah Group of Hospitals Kap Yan Directors' College
187 Tung Wah Group of Hospital Sun Hoi Directors' College
188 Valtorta College
189 Wah Yan College, Hong Kong
190 Wah Yan College, Kowloon
191 Wong Shiu Chi Secondary School
192 Yan Chai Hospital Lim Por Yen Secondary School
193 Yenching College
194 Ying Wa College
195 Ying Wa Girls' School
196 Yu Chun Keung Memorial College
197 Yuen Long Lutheran Secondary School
198 Yuen Long Merchants Association Secondary School
Monitoring of 26 of CMB routes
10. DR HUANG CHEN-YA asked (in Chinese): As 26 routes operated by the China Motor Bus Company Limited (CMB) will be taken over by the Citybus Limited from September, will the Government inform this Council what monitoring plans are in place to ensure that the quality of service provided by CMB in respect of these 26 routes will not deteriorate during the intervening period?
2388 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT: Mr President, China Motor Bus Company Limited (CMB) is required under the Public Bus Services Ordinance to maintain a proper and efficient public bus service to the satisfaction of the Commissioner for Transport during the term of its current franchise. This commitment is reinforced by CMB's new franchise effective from September 1993 requiring CMB to continue to comply with such obligations relating to all its services including and up to the date of transfer of the 26 routes to Citybus Limited. Failure to do so renders the Company liable to financial penalty under the provisions of the above Ordinance.
CMB's bus services are always subject to close monitoring by the Transport Department. Central to the process are regular surveys conducted by the Department to monitor the bus turnout, occupancy, and frequency on all the routes. Results so far indicate that whilst there have been some shortage of buses on other routes where CMB has been asked to rectify, there has been no deliberate withdrawal of buses from any one of the 26 routes.
The Transport Department will continue to conduct surveys, with special emphasis on the 26 routes over the next few months at more frequent intervals until they are taken over by Citybus in September. Any service deficiency identified during these surveys or observed by the District Boards and the commuting public will continue to be promptly dealt with and rectified.
Relocation of the Hong Kong Cement Plant
11. MR LEE WING-TAT asked (in Chinese): In the light of the Government's plan to relocate the Hong Kong Cement Plant adjacent to Greenfield Garden in Tsing Yi, will the Administration inform this Council:
(a) whether there is a target date for relocating the plant, and if not, what the reasons are;
(b) whether it has encountered any difficulties or problems in relocating the plant, and if so, what they are;
(c) whether the Kwai Tsing District Board will be consulted on the relocation of the plant to ensure that the concern and interests of the local residents are taken into account; and
(d) what interim measures it has adopted or will adopt to reduce the nuisance caused by the plant to nearby residents?
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993 2389 SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS: Mr President,
(a) The Government accepts that the Hong Kong Cement Plant on Tsing Yi is incompatible with its surrounding environment and is therefore negotiating with the plant owner for its relocation to a new site on the north Tsing Yi coast. Progress has been encouraging and the Government hopes to be able to finalize agreement with the owner in the next few months. Subject to agreement being reached, the existing plant will be decommissioned in 1996.
(b) The process of relocating plants such as the cement plant on Tsing Yi includes, for example, identifying a suitable new site and negotiating the details of a mutually acceptable agreement with the owner. It therefore involves wide-ranging problem identification and resolution. The present case is no exception but progress has been positive.
(c) The Kwai Tsing District Board and its Environment and Planning Sub-Committee have been and will continue to be kept informed on the relocation proposal.
(d) Until the plant is removed, the Administration will continue to take strict enforcement action to minimize as far as practicable the dust and noise nuisances. According to Environmental Protection Department investigations, the noise levels from the machinery within the site do not provide the basis for an actionable complaint under the Noise Control Ordinance. As regards noise from barge operations, the management has been advised to take measures to avoid causing noise which disturbs nearby residents.
Since the occupation of Greenfield Garden began in December 1989, the Environmental Protection Department has been monitoring the dust problem. Frequent inspections have been carried out to ensure that dust emissions from the plant are reduced to a minimum. Following investigations in November 1992, the management was asked to improve its dust control measures further.
The plant will be kept under close surveillance and further enforcement action will be taken whenever necessary.
2390 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993 Localization of Policy Secretary posts
12. MR CHIM PUI-CHUNG asked (in Chinese): In his reply to a Legislative Council question on 14 October 1992, the Secretary for the Civil Service pointed out that eight out of the existing 15 Policy Secretary posts were filled by local officers and that the percentage of local officers in such posts would increase substantially in future. Will the Government inform this Council:
(a) when the remaining seven posts of Policy Secretary are expected to be vacant, and whether these vacancies will then be filled by local officers;
(b) why a recently vacated Policy Secretary post was not filled by a local officer, and whether the progress of localization of Policy Secretaries would thus be affected?
SECRETARY FOR THE CIVIL SERVICE: Mr President,
(a) Seven Policy Secretary posts are currently filled by overseas officers. Four of these officers are likely to retire before the end of 1995 under the guideline that overseas Administrative Officers should generally retire at age 57. One other officer on agreement terms will complete his contract within the same time span. Of the remaining two, one is currently a substantive Secretary who is likely to be required to retire before 1997 under the terms of the Limited Compensation Scheme. The other is presently filling a Secretary post on an acting basis.
(b) The appointment to which the Honourable Member refers was made on the basis of the best officer available for the post. Our policy is to consider local and overseas officers on equal terms for any vacancies which arise. This posting is therefore in line with current policy. No doubt Honourable Members will have noted further Secretary appointments, announced last week, which will mean that two local officers will assume Policy Secretary duties for the first time in the next few months.
Mr President, let me also repeat the reassurance that I have given in the past, that all Policy Secretary or future Principal Official posts will be filled by suitable local officers, who can meet the Joint Declaration and Basic Law provisions, in advance of 1997. This may require a departure from current policy at some point in order to give preference to qualified local officers. If this happens, any overseas officer adversely affected will need to be compensated — though I expect numbers to be small.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993 2391 Compensation for AIDS victims
13. MR DAVID LI asked: Will the Administration consider implementing a no-fault claim system as a means of compensating AIDS victims who have contracted the virus through contaminated blood products in government hospitals, and their dependents?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr President, as a caring and compassionate government, we have great sympathy for those haemophiliacs who contracted HIV through transfusion of blood and blood products prior to 1985, irrespective of whether they were infected through transfusion in government hospitals.
In this context, the Financial Secretary has announced in his Budget speech on 3 March 1993 the Administration's proposal to set up a special fund with $350 million for providing, inter alia, ex gratia payments to these patients. The fund will be administered under trust by a special council to be appointed by the Governor.
A submission for allocation of funds will be put to the Finance Committee of this Council at its next regular meeting.
Inclusion of the Chinese political system in local school curriculum
14. MR STEVEN POON asked (in Chinese): In view of the return of Hong Kong to China in 1997 to become its Special Administrative Region, will the Government inform this Council:
(a) whether the study of the Chinese political system is included as a subject in the curriculum of local primary and secondary schools to help students understand such matters as the existing political structure and system in China and the relationship between China and the future Hong Kong Special Administrative Region;
(b) if so, what the outline of the subject is, and whether the contents of the subject will be strengthened to keep pace with the needs of the community; and
(c) if not, whether arrangements will be made expeditiously to include this subject in the curriculum of schools?
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER: Mr President, the Chinese political system is not taught as an independent subject in schools. However, elements of the Chinese political system are included in the school curriculum at both primary and secondary levels. Pupils' concepts and
2392 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993
understanding of the Chinese political system are strengthened progressively from a basic understanding of the growth and development of the Chinese nation to a more in-depth study of the existing political structure and system in China and the relationship between China and the future Hong Kong Special Administrative Region.
Topics relating to the Chinese political system are already included in the following subjects in the formal curriculum:
Level Subject
Primary Social Studies (P5)
Secondary Chinese History (S1-S7)
History (S3-S7)
Social Studies (S3)
Economic and Public Affairs (S4-S5)
Government and Public Affairs (S4-S7)
Liberal Studies (S6-S7)
A summary of the topics is annexed.
A new subject "General Studies" is being developed for the primary curriculum. It will embody basic knowledge of the Chinese political system as well as the relationship between China and the future Hong Kong Special Administrative Region.
Apart from the topics included in the formal school curriculum, pupils may acquire a better understanding of the Chinese political system through such cross-curricular civic education programmes as "The individual and the nation", and "The individual and society" as described in the "Guidances on Civic Education in Schools" produced by the Education Department.
The Curriculum Development Institute of the Education Department will continue to review the school curriculum to keep pace with the changing needs of the community and to reinforce pupils' understanding of the development of the political systems in China and Hong Kong.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993 2393 Annex
Topics relating to the Chinese Political System and
the Relationship between China and the
Future Hong Kong Special Administrative Region
in Different School Subjects
Level and subject Topics
Primary
Social Studies P5 China — the growth and the development of the Chinese nation
Secondary
Chinese History S1-S7 Political development of China up to 1976 History S3 China as one of the communist countries
S4-S5 The nature of China's communist rule in
post-1949
S6-S7 Socialist revolution and modernization in China
(1949-80)
Social Studies S3 Political development and future of Hong Kong
Economic and Public Affairs
Government and Public Affairs
The future of Hong Kong as a Special
Administrative Region
S4-S5 Hong Kong and China
S6-S7 The relationship between Hong Kong, Britain, China and the future of Hong Kong
Liberal Studies S6-S7 Hong Kong Studies — Implementation of the Sino-British Joint Declaration
China Today
- Socialism vs Capitalism
- The role of the Party in the process of
government
2394 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993 Pollution caused by vehicle repair workshops
15. MR TAM YIU-CHUNG asked (in Chinese): In view of the environmental pollution problems caused by vehicle repair workshops located on the ground floor of domestic premises, will the Government inform this Council whether measures will be taken to abate such pollution problems; and whether any administrative measures are in place to relocate such workshops away from residential areas?
SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS: Mr President, the environmental problems normally associated with vehicle repair workshops located on the ground floor of domestic premises are noise and air pollution.
Noise pollution from activities of vehicle workshops such as hammering, grinding and welding of car bodies, maintenance and testing of engines and so on are dealt with under the Noise Control Ordinance (NCO). If the noise generated from such a workshop is found to exceed the limit stipulated in the relevant Technical Memorandum under the NCO, staff of the Environmental Protection Department (EPD) will give advice and warn the operator of the workshop to alleviate the problem. If the problem persists, a Noise Abatement Notice (NAN) may be issued requiring the noise to be abated within a specified period. Non compliance of NAN requirements is an offence liable to a maximum fine of $50,000 for the first conviction and $100,000 for second or subsequent conviction and in any case a daily fine of $10,000 for each day the offence continues.
The air pollution problems comprise mainly odour of paint mist. Upon receipt of complaints about air pollution from vehicle repair workshops and if found justified, EPD staff will serve a notice under the Air Pollution Control Ordinance (APCO) to require the abatement of the air pollutant nuisance. If after the service of such a notice the air pollutant nuisance continues, prosecution will be initiated under the APCO. Any owner of premises who fails to comply with any of the requirements of notification given to him commits an offence and is liable to a fine of $50,000 and a further fine of $100 in respect of every one quarter of an hour during the whole or any part of which the offence continues. Under the Air Pollution Control (Amendment) Ordinance 1993 which is expected to come into operation in mid 1993, a system of Air Pollution Abatement Notices (APAN) will be introduced to replace the existing notice system. Non-compliance with APAN requirements is an offence liable to a fine of $100,000 on first conviction and to a fine of $200,000 and to imprisonment for six months on a second or subsequent conviction and in any case a daily fine of $20,000 for each day the offence continues.
With regard to the second part of the question, a vehicle repair workshop is generally classified as an industrial user. If it is operated in premises where industrial use is not permitted under the lease conditions, lease enforcement
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993 2395
action can be taken against it. Measures have also been taken to develop industrial buildings to provide accommodation for such purposes. A study on the Planning for Vehicle Repair Workshops, commissioned by the Planning Department, will be completed in mid 1993, the findings of which should enable the Administration to devise a strategy to deal with the environmental problems caused by such workshops.
Quality of education
16. MR TIK CHI-YUEN asked (in Chinese): In the light of the Governor's Policy Address and the recommendations in the Education Commission Report No. 5 concerning improvements to the quality of education, will the Government inform this Council of:
(a) the adjustments that will be made to the estimated requirements for primary and secondary school teachers in government, subsidized, and private schools in various districts in the next academic year; and
(b) the supply of graduate and non-graduate teachers in primary and secondary schools in the next academic year, and whether there will be any shortfalls in supply?
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER: Mr President, the answers to Mr TIK's questions are as follows:
(a) The improvement measures announced in the Governor's policy address and recommended in Education Commission Report No. 5 (ECR5) will require 785 additional non-graduate teachers in the 1993-94 academic year. Taking these into account and allowing for reduced demand due to population change (324 fewer teachers), the overall requirement for the new academic year will be 24 651 non graduate and 12 976 graduate teachers in public sector primary and secondary schools. A breakdown of these figures by district is not readily available. Private schools are unaffected by the improvements involving additional teachers.
(b) The supply of non-graduate and graduate teachers in public sector primary and secondary schools in the next academic year is expected to be 24 535 and 12 657 respectively. There would therefore be a theoretical shortfall of 116 non-graduate and 319 graduate teachers, representing 0.5% and 2.5% respectively of the demand. Given the size of the teaching force and in the light of past experience (when vacancies averaged 1% and 3.5% respectively over the past three years) the Education Department
2396 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993
estimates that there should be enough teachers to meet demand in the new academic year.
Safety standard of the Hong Kong Coliseum
17. MR EDWARD HO asked: Will the Government inform this Council of the designed capacity of the Hong Kong Coliseum; whether, in the past three years, there were occasions when the Coliseum was filled beyond its capacity; and whether, in relation to present-day safety requirement laid down by the Fire Services Department and the Buildings Ordinance Office, the Coliseum can still cope with the number of people as originally planned?
SECRETARY FOR WORKS: Mr President, the designed seating capacity of the Hong Kong Coliseum ranges from 10 545 to 12 455 depending on the type of stage configuration used. Since its opening in April 1983, it has never been filled beyond the designed capacity.
The fire service installations were approved by Fire Services Department in 1983. It is considered that for normal sports events, the fire services installation remains adequate under FSD's present-day requirements.
When it is used for other performances, the operators will have to apply for a licence under the Places of Public Entertainment Ordinance. Upon the receipt of applications, the authority will refer them to Fire Services Department for inspections and advice on fire safety matters. The applicant will have to comply with necessary safety requirements before a licence is granted. This ensures all performances at the Coliseum will comply with up-to date fire safety requirements.
The Coliseum was designed in consultation with the Buildings Ordinance Office to ensure that it also complied with the safety requirements laid down in the Buildings Ordinance. In relation to the present-day safety requirements, it can still cope with the number of people as originally planned.
Lifting of embargo against financial support for Vietnam
18. MR MARTIN BARROW asked: Given the Government's recognition that an improvement in the Vietnamese economy would encourage Vietnamese migrants to volunteer to return to Vietnam, will the Government inform this Council whether it is aware that Her Majesty's Government will publicly support a lifting of the embargo against the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and World Bank providing financial support for Vietnam, prior to the annual meeting of those organizations in April 1993, and if it will not, is it aware of why not?
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993 2397
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, the position of Her Majesty's Government is well known; they have publicly expressed their support for a lifting of the embargo and normalization of Vietnam's relations with the international financial institutions and will continue to press for this.
Public rental housing
19. DR CONRAD LAM asked (in Chinese): Referring to para. (b) of the reply of Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands to this Council to the written question on "Land grant for public rental housing" on 14 October 1992, will the Government inform this Council:
(a) of the breakdown, by year and district, of the 16 500 rental type flats for sale under the Home Ownership Scheme (HOS);
(b) of the criteria used to designate certain blocks in the housing estates for HOS uses; and
(c) how it will ensure that the designation of certain blocks for HOS uses would not reduce the supply of public rental housing units and unduly affect those applicants in the General Waiting List for public rental housing units in urban area?
SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS: Mr President,
(a) A breakdown, by year and district, of the 16 500 rental type flats designated for sale under the Home Ownership Scheme (HOS) is at the Annex.
(b) The Government's objective is to promote home ownership for those eligible for public housing. Under this policy, the main criteria used to designate certain rental blocks for sale are housing mix and programme balance. While the demand for HOS flats is largely met by planned production, it is sometimes necessary to transfer one or two blocks in a rental estate for sale to achieve a better mix. Thus, sitting and prospective tenants, including those affected by redevelopment, can choose to buy in the same district when they can afford to do so. There are also occasions where programme adjustment in the production of sale flats requires the transfer of some rental type blocks for sale in a particular year. However, this is done only when the committed rental demand in the district is satisfied.
2398 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993
(c) The designation of rental blocks for sale should not reduce the supply of rental units overall on a year on year basis. In particular, the designation is not necessarily followed by a corresponding reduction in the supply of rental flats. As sitting tenants move out after buying HOS flats, the recovered units are refurbished and allocated to other rehousing categories, including the waiting list.
The designation of rental type flats for sale should have little effect on waiting list applicants with an expressed preference for urban flats because the majority of the transfer flats are outside the urban area.
Annex
Rental-type Flats for Sale under the HOS
District 1987-88 1988-89 1989-90 (No. of flats)
1990-91 1991-92 Total
Hong Kong - - - 607 - 607 Kowloon - - - - 2 242 2 242 Kwai Chung,
Tsuen Wan, Tsing Yi
- - 814 - - 814
Sha Tin - - 610 1 222 - 1 832 Tai Po - - 2 443 2 036 1 224 5 703 Tseung Kwan O - - - 814 - 814 Tuen Mun - - - 1 425 2 448 3 873
Fanling,
Sheung Shui
- - 611 - - 611
Total - - 4 478 6 104 5 914 16 496
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993 2399 Motions
PUBLIC FINANCE ORDINANCE
THE SECRETARY FOR THE TREASURY moved the following motion: "That -
1. Authority is hereby given for a sum not exceeding $50,612,379,000 to be charged on the general revenue in advance of an Appropriation Ordinance for expenditure on the services of the Government in respect of the financial year commencing on 1 April 1993.
2. Subject to this resolution, the sum so charged may be expended against the heads of expenditure, and expenditure for each such head shall be arranged in accordance with the subheads, shown in the draft Estimates of Expenditure 1993- 94 or, where such estimates are changed under the provisions of the Public Finance Ordinance as applied by section 7(2) of that Ordinance, in accordance with such estimates as so changed.
3. Expenditure in respect of any head shall not exceed the aggregate of the amounts specified in respect of each subhead in that head, by reference to percentages, in section 4(a) and (b).
4. Expenditure in respect of each subhead in a head shall not exceed - (a) in the case of a Recurrent Account subhead, an amount equivalent to -
(i) except where the subhead is listed in the Schedule hereto, 20% of the provision shown in respect of it in the draft Estimates;
(ii) where the subhead is listed in the Schedule hereto, that percentage of the provision shown in respect of it in the draft Estimates which is specified in relation to that subhead in the Schedule; and
(b) in the case of a Capital Account subhead, an amount equivalent to 100% of the provision shown in respect of it in the draft Estimates,
or such other amount, not exceeding the provision shown in respect of the subhead in the draft Estimates, as may in any case be approved by the Financial Secretary."
2400 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993 SCHEDULE
Head of expenditure Subhead
Percentage of provision shown in
draft estimates
22 Agriculture and Fisheries Department
91 Buildings and Lands Department
28 Civil Aviation
Department
43 Civil Engineering Department
31 Customs and Excise Department
452 Royal Society for the
Prevention of Cruelty to
Animals (Hong Kong) ................... 25
456 World Wide Fund for
Nature (Hong Kong)...................... 25
221 Clearance of Crown
land - ex gratia
allowances..................................... 50 170 Airport insurance........................... 100
281 Air passenger departure
tax administration fees .................. 30 255 Storage of explosives .................... 30
010 Recruiting expenses ...................... 40 292 Seizure management ..................... 30
40 Education Department 325 Direct Subsidy Scheme ................. 30
330 Assistance to private
secondary schools and
bought places................................. 30
350 Refund of rents and
rates to kindergartens,
private schools and
study rooms ................................... 30
489 Miscellaneous
educational services ...................... 30
46 General Expenses of the Civil Service
013 Personal allowances ...................... 35
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993 2401
Percentage
of provision
shown in
Head of expenditure Subhead
draft estimates
50 Government Land Transport Agency
53 Government Secretariat: City and New Territories Administration
225 Traffic accident victims
assistance scheme –
levies ............................................. 100
211 Commonwealth Youth
Exchange Programme.................... 100
285 Promotional activities
on building management ............... 30
286 Activities to be
organised by the
Commission on Youth ................... 50
60 Highways Department 273 Highways maintenance.................. 30 62 Housing Department 228 Clearance....................................... 25 232 Squatter control ............................. 25
72 Independent Commission Against Corruption
203 Expenses of witnesses,
suspects and detainees................... 36
73 Industry Department 513 Hong Kong Quality
Assurance Agency......................... 25
76 Inland Revenue Department
34 Internal Security: Miscellaneous
Measures
002 Allowances.................................... 25
149 General departmental
expenses ........................................ 25
189 Interest on tax reserve
certificates..................................... 35 209 Special legal expenses................... 30
195 Defence Costs
Agreement: cash
contribution ................................... 40
2402 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993
Head of expenditure Subhead
90 Labour Department 280 Contribution to the Occupational Safety and
Percentage of provision shown in
draft estimates
Health Council .............................. 25
92 Legal Department 234 Court costs .................................... 34
243 Hire of legal services
and related professional
fees ................................................ 25
106 Miscellaneous Services 258 Election expenses.......................... 30
120 Pensions 015 Civil, judicial service
and police pension
benefits and
compensation ................................ 30
016 Gratuities for officers on
contract.......................................... 30
026 Employees'
compensation ................................ 50
118 Planning Department 149 General departmental
expenses ........................................ 30
130 Printing Department 002 Allowances.................................... 25
160 Radio Television Hong Kong
102 Technical Services
Agreement..................................... 25
165 Registry of Trade Unions 002 Allowances.................................... 25
170 Social Welfare Department
176 Criminal and law
enforcement injuries
compensation ................................ 25 177 Emergency relief ........................... 100
179 Public assistance
scheme........................................... 25
180 Special needs
allowances..................................... 25
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993 2403
Percentage
of provision
shown in
Head of expenditure Subhead 410 Rehabilitation services
draft estimates
176 Subventions: Miscellaneous
177 Subventions: Non Departmental
Public Bodies
(grants) .......................................... 30
411 Social welfare services
(grants) .......................................... 30 412 Refunds of rates ............................ 30
416 Commonwealth
Parliamentary Association
(Hong Kong Branch)..................... 45
437 Hong Kong - Japan
Business Co-operation
Committee..................................... 25
446 Law Society Legal
Advice and Duty
Lawyer Schemes ........................... 25
475 Outward Bound Trust of
Hong Kong.................................... 25
487 Subventions for
performing arts activities............... 30
502 Hong Kong
Archaeological Society ................. 50
503 Subventions to
voluntary agency camps ................ 25
504 Hong Kong Council on
Smoking and Health ...................... 25
521 Skills centres for the
disabled ......................................... 25 429 Consumer Council......................... 25
441 Hong Kong Productivity
Council.......................................... 25
2404 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993
Head of expenditure Subhead
443 Hong Kong Tourist
Percentage of provision shown in
draft estimates
178 Technical Education and Industrial Training
Department
Association................................... 25
444 Hong Kong Trade
Development Council................... 25
520 Vocational Training
Council ......................................... 25 001 Salaries ......................................... 25
002 Allowances ................................... 100
186 Transport Department 449 Road Safety Association............... 25 188 Treasury 002 Allowances ................................... 30 163 Write-offs ..................................... 50
187 Agents' commission and
expenses ....................................... 80
190 Other miscellaneous items............ 100
191 Payment to Cross
Harbour Tunnel
Company Limited......................... 100
192 Refunds of revenue....................... 100
190 Universities and Polytechnics
002 Allowances ................................... 25
149 General departmental
expenses ....................................... 40 169 Visitation ...................................... 35
492 Grants to universities,
polytechnics, Baptist
College and Lingnan
College ......................................... 30
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993 2405
Percentage
of provision
shown in
Head of expenditure Subhead
496 Refund of rates -
universities, polytechnics,
Baptist College and
draft estimates
194 Water Supplies Department
Lingnan College ............................ 25 223 Purchase of water .......................... 25
He said: Mr President, I move the motion standing in my name in the Order Paper.
The purpose of this motion is to seek funds on account to enable the Government to carry on existing services between the start of the financial year on 1 April 1993 and the enactment of the Appropriation Bill.
The funds on account sought under each subhead have been determined in accordance with paragraph 4 of the resolution, by reference to percentages of the provision shown in the draft Estimates. As the draft Estimates are changed from time to time, by the Finance Committee or under delegated powers, the provision to which the percentages are applied will also change. Thus the provision on account under each head is not constant but may vary, with every increase being matched by an equal decrease. The initial provision on account under each head is shown in a footnote to this speech. The aggregate total under all heads is fixed, however, at $50,612,379,000 and cannot be exceeded without the approval of this Council.
The resolution also enables the Financial Secretary to vary the funds on account in respect of any subhead, provided that these variations do not cause an excess over the amount of provision entered for that subhead in the draft Estimates or an excess over the amount of funds on account for the head.
A vote on account warrant will be issued to the Director of Accounting Services authorizing him to make payments up to the amount specified in this motion and in accordance with its conditions. The vote on account will be subsumed upon the enactment of the Appropriation Bill, and the general warrant issued after the enactment of the Appropriation Bill will replace the vote on account warrant and will be effective from 1 April 1993.
Mr President, I beg to move.
2406 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993 Footnote
Amount
shown in
the draft
Initial
amount of provision
Head of Expenditure
Estimates
on account
$'000 $'000
21 His Excellency the Governor's
Establishment ............................................... 23,323 4,665 22 Agriculture and Fisheries Department ................. 365,152 82,750 25 Architectural Services Department ...................... 1,268,767 254,234 24 Audit Department ................................................ 73,601 14,721 23 Auxiliary Medical Services.................................. 40,946 8,278 91 Buildings and Lands Department......................... 921,174 199,467 26 Census and Statistics Department ........................ 237,720 48,680 27 Civil Aid Services................................................ 56,075 11,359 28 Civil Aviation Department................................... 395,983 92,524 43 Civil Engineering Department ............................. 422,170 93,662 30 Correctional Services Department ....................... 1,552,250 320,570 31 Customs and Excise Department ......................... 798,139 169,171 37 Department of Health........................................... 1,676,087 352,246 39 Drainage Services Department............................. 536,598 113,207 40 Education Department ......................................... 13,531,720 2,982,338
42 Electrical and Mechanical Services
Department................................................... 807,573 195,319 44 Environmental Protection Department................. 933,407 333,591 45 Fire Services Department..................................... 1,512,162 364,701
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993 2407
Head of Expenditure
Amount shown in the draft Estimates
Initial
amount of provision on account
$'000 $'000
46 General Expenses of the Civil Service................. 3,552,545 767,911 166 Government Flying Service ................................. 118,897 56,316 48 Government Laboratory....................................... 105,854 28,242 50 Government Land Transport Agency................... 123,813 93,130 51 Government Property Agency.............................. 1,153,245 230,649 52 Government Secretariat ....................................... 747,416 160,680
53 Government Secretariat: City and New
Territories Administration ............................ 540,671 123,998
29 Government Secretariat: Civil Service
Training Centre............................................. 62,094 13,139 96 Government Secretariat: Overseas Offices .......... 177,675 43,273
56 Government Secretariat: Planning,
Environment and Lands Branch and
Works Branch ............................................... 175,377 45,868
55 Government Secretariat: Recreation and
Culture Branch ............................................. 83,216 24,336 58 Government Supplies Department ....................... 116,487 23,425 60 Highways Department ......................................... 1,072,550 280,605 61 Hospital Services Department.............................. 103,405 21,195 62 Housing Department ............................................ 387,088 97,147 70 Immigration Department...................................... 1,127,126 228,956
2408 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993
Amount
shown in
the draft
Initial
amount of provision
Head of Expenditure
Estimates
on account
$'000 $'000
72 Independent Commission Against
Corruption .................................................... 386,003 77,456 73 Industry Department ............................................ 99,789 42,294 74 Information Services Department ........................ 157,010 31,514
47 Information Technology
Services Department..................................... 256,638 53,403 76 Inland Revenue Department................................. 690,159 144,795 78 Intellectual Property Department ......................... 32,910 6,582 34 Internal Security: Miscellaneous Measures.......... 1,715,416 673,674 80 Judiciary............................................................... 428,955 91,780 90 Labour Department .............................................. 293,555 59,423 94 Legal Aid Department ......................................... 259,502 51,901 92 Legal Department ................................................ 466,145 104,436 100 Marine Department .............................................. 550,004 153,859 106 Miscellaneous Services........................................ 10,953,129 4,963,835
112 Office of Members of the
Legislative Council ...................................... 50,136 10,028
114 Office of the Commissioner for
Administrative Complaints........................... 13,745 2,749 116 Official Receiver's Office .................................... 57,026 11,606 120 Pensions............................................................... 4,923,430 1,463,301
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993 2409
Head of Expenditure
Amount shown in the draft Estimates
Initial
amount of provision on account
$'000 $'000
118 Planning Department ........................................... 203,701 70,560 121 Police Complaints Committee ............................. 6,297 1,260 122 Police: Royal Hong Kong Police Force ............... 7,325,070 1,531,283 126 Post Office ........................................................... 1,873,448 384,092 130 Printing Department............................................. 149,351 34,163 136 Public Service Commission ................................. 11,659 2,332 160 Radio Television Hong Kong............................... 303,328 74,838 162 Rating and Valuation Department ........................ 147,776 29,556 164 Registrar General's Department ........................... 145,800 29,496 165 Registry of Trade Unions..................................... 6,474 1,306
167 Royal Hong Kong Regiment
(The Volunteers) ........................................... 36,991 7,399 168 Royal Observatory ............................................... 107,682 23,882 170 Social Welfare Department .................................. 7,409,011 1,898,741
174 Standing Commission on Civil Service
Salaries and Conditions of Service............... 9,493 1,899
175 Standing Committee on Disciplined Services
Salaries and Conditions of Service............... 6,061 1,213 173 Student Financial Assistance Agency .................. 484,523 96,905 176 Subventions: Miscellaneous................................. 211,772 67,382
177 Subventions: Non-Departmental
Public Bodies ............................................... 14,656,241 3,303,265
2410 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993
Amount
shown in
the draft
Initial
amount of provision
Head of Expenditure
Estimates
on account
$'000 $'000
178 Technical Education and Industrial Training
Department................................................... 591 152
180 Television and Entertainment Licensing
Authority ...................................................... 28,283 6,074 110 Territory Development Department ..................... 143,001 28,976 181 Trade Department ................................................ 162,940 33,923 186 Transport Department .......................................... 398,549 101,937 188 Treasury ............................................................... 268,908 74,546 190 Universities and Polytechnics .............................. 6,378,793 1,925,992 194 Water Supplies Department ................................. 2,694,129 608,218
99,303,730 26,162,379
184 Transfers to Funds ............................................... 24,450,000 24,450,000 Total ............................................................. 123,753,730 50,612,379
Question on the motion proposed, put and agreed to.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993 2411 MAGISTRATES ORDINANCE
THE SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS moved the following motion:
"That the Third Schedule to the Magistrates Ordinance be amended by adding - "11. Housing (Traffic)
An offence against by-law 8(1)(a), 8(1)(b), 25(1)(a) or 25(1)(b) of the Housing (Traffic) By-laws (Cap. 283 sub. leg.)."
He said: Mr President, I move the motion standing in my name on the Order Paper. This motion seeks to incorporate four common parking offences under the Housing (Traffic) By laws of the Housing Ordinance into the Third Schedule to the Magistrates Ordinance. These offences include for example: unauthorized parking on a restricted road; and parking inside the car-park other than in an appropriate parking space or in a parking space allocated for the use of pass holders.
The Third Schedule to the Magistrates Ordinance lists those offences in respect of which a defendant may plead guilty by letter without attendance at court. Operational experience indicates that many defendants would prefer to use this method of proceeding if it is available.
Thank you, Mr President.
Question on the motion proposed, put and agreed to.
Second Reading of Bills
PARENT AND CHILD BILL
Resumption of debate on Second Reading which was moved on 24 June 1992 Question on Second Reading proposed.
MRS MIRIAM LAU: Mr President, the Parent and Child Bill was introduced into the Legislative Council on 24 June 1992. It mainly aims to reduce the legal disabilities associated with illegitimacy so that an illegitimate child will, as far as practicable, be treated in the law in the same way as a legitimate child. The Bill also provides for the determination of parentage in case of births resulting from medical treatment services such as artificial insemination by donor and
2412 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993
surrogacy, and for the use of scientific tests in proceedings where the question of parentage is to be considered.
A Legislative Council ad hoc group was formed in July last year to study this Bill. A total of 13 meetings were held by the group.
As regards the issues relating to illegitimacy, the ad hoc group entirely agrees with the principle that no child should be penalized or discriminated for reasons arising from the circumstances of his birth and therefore fully supports the provisions in the Bill which seek to remove, as far as possible, all discriminatory provisions from existing legislation.
The ad hoc group spent quite some time in studying those provisions in Part V of the Bill for the identification of the legal parents of children born as a result of medical treatment and the subsequent transfer of parentage in case of surrogacy in view of the very complex nature of the issues involved. Some Members considered that it would be more logical for this part of the Bill to be introduced after the ethics of these medical treatment services had been fully considered. The Administration explained that the issue of regulating arrangements for scientifically assisted birth was being looked into separately. The final report of the Committee on Scientifically Assisted Human Reproduction would soon be published for public consultation. However they reiterated that since these treatment services are not prohibited by law at present and are actually administered both locally and overseas, there is a genuine need to provide a proper mechanism to determine the legal parentage of children born as a result of such treatment services so that they would no longer be regarded as illegitimate. Members accepted the Administration's explanation but stressed that their support of the Bill does not necessarily mean that they have endorsed the practice, morality and ethics of such treatment services.
After very careful consideration of the clauses in this part of the Bill, the ad hoc group considered that they could be further improved in three areas.
The first one deals with the mechanism for the determination of the father of a child if the mother who received medical treatment has no husband. While Members were fully aware of the purpose of this provision, that is, to cater for cases where the couple, although not married, are both willing to have a child by means of medical treatment, they found the wording in clause 10(3) of the Bill to be ambiguous which might result in the wrong person being regarded as the father. For example, if the father of a woman accompanied her to receive medical treatment which resulted in the birth of a child, under clause 10(3) of the Bill, that man, who is actually the grandfather of the child, may be deemed in law to be the child's father even though that was never intended. This could be very confusing. Members considered that the relationship between the woman and the man should be more clearly spelt out in the clause if that man is to be treated as the child's father.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993 2413
Another area which required amendment is the provision for cases where the sperm of a man was used after his death. Clause 10(6) specifies that if the sperm of a man was used after his death, that man should not be regarded as the father of the child subsequently born. The Administration explained that the rationale was mainly to avoid uncertainty in terms of succession of the man's estate because it could not be sure at what stage in the future another child might be born and claim against the estate. In view of the fact that gametes could be preserved for a rather long period of time, this means that succession rights may never be conclusive. While noting the Administration's concern, Members generally considered that it would not be fair to the child if he was to be treated as fatherless when he was actually, both socially and genetically, the child of his deceased father. In the light of Members' concern, the Administration agreed that the application of this rule to the child should only be confined to the succession of his father's estate.
Clause 12 of the Bill stipulates a number of conditions that have to be fulfilled before a parental order, that is, in layman terms, a permission for the transfer of parentage in case of surrogacy from the carrying parents to the commissioning parents, is to be made by the court. One condition is that no financial payment can be made between the parties concerned other than those already authorized by the court. While Members acknowledged the good intention of the rule, they considered it unnecessarily restrictive. This is because there may be some genuine cases where payments were made out of good will but the parties concerned just failed to apply for the court's authorization before payment. It would be unfair to them as well as to the child if an order were to be rejected solely for this reason. The ad hoc group considered that the final decision in these circumstances should be left to the court.
The Administration has agreed to the above proposals. Suitable amendments will be moved by me later in the Committee stage to amend the relevant clauses.
Another major amendment to be made to the Bill relates to the provisions for the maintenance of illegitimate children. In the Schedule of the Bill, amendments to the Affiliation Proceedings Ordinance (APO) are proposed to empower the court to make orders for maintenance of children not born out of marriage similar to those which may be made in respect of children born out of marriage under other Ordinances. However, in the course of scrutiny of the Bill, the Administration suddenly proposed to remove all the proposed amendments to the APO because there is some concern that the provisions of that Ordinance may be inconsistent with the Hong Kong Bill of Rights. Therefore, it would be necessary to conduct an overall review of the APO and pending the outcome of such review, the Administration does not wish to proceed further with the amendments to the Ordinance at this stage.
The ad hoc group did not favour the Administration's proposal because, in view of the usually long lead time required for the completion of a review of such magnitude, it would mean that illegitimate children could not receive those
2414 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993
benefits brought about by the proposed amendments for some time. Another more important factor is that, if the present provisions in the APO were really inconsistent with the Bill of Rights, there is a possibility that the Ordinance may be successfully challenged in court. If that is the case, a lacuna would be created so that until such time some other legislation is put in place, no order for the maintenance and benefit of illegitimate children could be made. Members considered that highly undesirable and insisted that suitable interim measures be introduced to fill up this possible lacuna.
I am pleased to say that the Administration also shared Members' concern and has reacted positively by agreeing to extend the scope of the Guardianship of Minors Ordinance (GMO) to allow parents of illegitimate children to apply for maintenance under that Ordinance and to incorporate those amendments originally proposed in the Bill for the APO into the GMO. The effect would be that either parent of an illegitimate child could apply for maintenance under the GMO without having to resort to the APO. The mother of the child may still apply under the APO if she so wishes.
The Administration has also undertaken to accord priority to the review of the APO in order to reduce any inconvenience caused to mothers of children who prefer to apply under the APO.
In view of the urgency of this matter, the Administration has agreed that the provisions regarding the maintenance of illegitimate children should take effect immediately upon the enactment of the Bill. Other provisions in the Bill should however become operative three months after the enactment to enable the Administration to publicize the change in the law.
The ad hoc group has also suggested some amendments to the Bill to reflect more clearly the intention of the provisions. Some technical amendments will also be moved by me to the Chinese version of the Bill.
Before closing, I must thank my colleagues for their time, patience and efforts in studying this Bill. I also wish to thank the Administration for their understanding and co operative attitude in working out the amendments to be introduced.
Mr President, with these remarks, I support the Bill.
DR LEONG CHE-HUNG: Mr President, I rise to speak in support of this Bill subject to the amendments to be made in the Committee stage.
Mr President, this Bill, amongst other things, provides for the determination of parentage for birth resulting from scientifically assisted human reproduction, such as artificial insemination by donor or "AID" as commonly called, genetic in-vitro fertilization or commonly called (test tube babies) and
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993 2415
surrogacy. It thus seeks to protect the child born, as it were, scientifically without "his or her own choice".
Mr President, but it is exactly on the enforcement of this principle behind this Bill that I would like to make some comments in the hope that the Administration would take early action. Mr President, I concur with the Administration that there is a dire need to have proper mechanism for the determination of the legal parentage of children born under such scientific procedures. Yet, these mechanisms could be made more realistic if they could be dovetailed with recommendations on scientific procedures that are agreeable to the community on ethical, moral, social and legal considerations.
In 1987, a committee was set up under the Health and Welfare Branch known as the Committee on Scientifically Assisted Human Reproduction and perhaps I should declare my interest as the chairman of that committee. This group, Mr President, amongst other things, were entrusted to study and make recommendations on ethical, moral, social and legal aspects of these procedures. An interim report was produced in 1990 and after wide public consultation and more detailed deliberation, a final report was presented to the Secretary for Health and Welfare in May 1992.
The final report in our mind, Mr President, made significant proposals and recommendations that would facilitate the deliberation and implementation of the current Bill in relation to the needs of this society. Some of these are:
(1) Artificial insemination by donor (or AID) should not be performed on single woman.
(2) Children born out of AID are considered the legitimate children of the husband of the woman receiving AID unless the man has objected to the procedure.
(3) Only genetically related surrogacy should be allowed. That is, it must be the sperm of the commissioning father and the ovum of the commissioning mother and implanting the embryo so fertilized into the womb of the surrogate mother.
(4) Commercialization of scientifically assisted human reproduction should be completely banned.
(5) Strictest recommendation on storages and disposal of gametes and embryo.
But up to now, nothing is forthcoming from this report. This Bill before us today is therefore in my mind "putting the cart before the horse".
I would like also to turn to two other aspects in relation to the Bill.
2416 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993
(A) I hail the recommendations of clause 12 which provides a mechanism for the gamete donor parents, that is, the commission couple in the case of surrogacy, to apply for a court order for a declaration of the child's parents at law. Such declaration will require the Registrar General of Births and Deaths to reregister this child. This is a welcoming move as it would remove the embarrassment of having to go through a procedure of adoption and the possibility of psychological effect on the child at a later life.
(B) Certainly I am however disturbed by this grey area of "nationality" of the child so born which is not addressed by this Bill, but is recommended by the Law Reform Commission. I do understand that it is a matter for the United Kingdom but I would urge the Administration to do the utmost to pursue the issue with Her Majesty's Government to avoid another example of "split families" at the end of the day.
With those words I support the Bill subject to the amendments made in the Committee stage.
ATTORNEY GENERAL: Mr President, I am most grateful to Mrs Miriam LAU and the members of the ad hoc group for the careful consideration which they have given to this Bill and for their support of its principles. As a result of the group's efforts on what is the most complex subject, the amendments that will be moved later on this afternoon by Mrs LAU will further improve this important Bill.
Mr President, as I said when I moved the Second Reading of the Bill before this Council on 24 June last year, "the aim of this Bill is to ensure that an illegitimate child will, so far as is practicable, be treated by the law in the same way as a legitimate child." The Bill seeks to implement the recommendations of the Law Reform Commission's report on "Illegitimacy", recommendations which found strong public support. I would like to make just two points.
First, one of the purposes of the Bill was to ensure that the same range of maintenance orders is available in respect of both legitimate and illegitimate children. The Bill sought to achieve this by amendments to the Affiliation Proceedings Ordinance, as Mrs LAU explained. However, when the Bill was being studied, it became apparent that the Affiliation Proceedings Ordinance may contain provisions that are inconsistent with the Bill of Rights. The Secretary for Health and Welfare has therefore decided to carry out an overall review of that Ordinance as a matter of priority. In the meantime, it seems preferable to leave the Affiliation Proceedings Ordinance unamended. However, the intention of making the same range of maintenance orders available in respect of both legitimate and illegitimate children can be achieved in another way, by amending the Guardianship of Minors Ordinance.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993 2417
Amendments to be moved later on this afternoon by Mrs LAU are intended to achieve this change in approach.
The second point I would wish to make relates to clauses 9 to 12 of the Bill, which refer to surrogacy and births brought about through artificial insemination or other scientific means. I know that this is an area of the law which raises sensitive issues of ethics and morality and that some members of the ad hoc group have expressed their reservations. Mr President, I would reiterate what I said to this Council in June last year:
"..... this Bill is not concerned with whether or not surrogacy and scientifically assisted birth is desirable, nor with considering the controls, if any, which should be applied. This Bill deals only with making provision to identify the legal parents where such births take place, and to provide a legal mechanism for parties to a surrogacy to apply to the court for an order as to the child's parentage which reflects the reality of the surrogacy arrangement. The extent to which such arrangements should be allowed, or how they should be regulated, are questions which fall outside the ambit of this Bill ....."
In view of the complex issues involved in this area, some of which have been touched on by Dr LEONG Che-hung, the Secretary for Health and Welfare intends to issue a consultative paper in the very near future on the subject of scientifically assisted human reproduction.
Thank you, Mr President.
Question on the Second Reading of the Bill put and agreed to.
Bill read the Second time.
Bill committed to a Committee of the whole Council pursuant to Standing Order 43(1).
TRADING FUNDS BILL
Resumption of debate on Second Reading which was moved on 18 November 1992 Question on Second Reading proposed.
MR PETER WONG: Mr President, the Bill before us today provides the general legal framework for the establishment of "trading funds" to enable a suitable government department, or part of a department, to adopt certain appropriate accounting and management practices common in the private sector while remaining part of the Government. A Bills Committee, of which I am the chairman, was set up to study the Bill.
2418 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993
The idea of establishing trading funds was first introduced to Members about three years ago when the Administration announced its proposals for public sector reform. This aimed at encouraging managers to get more from the resources they are consuming by giving them more of a say over the revenue they get from the services provided. The stated purpose of the trading fund concept is to improve quality of service in the public sector and to respond to fluctuating demand. It is expected that the department concerned will be able to respond to the changing needs of the clients more promptly than under the existing system where funds are allocated at the beginning of each financial year. Members of the Bills Committee welcome the introduction of trading funds for appropriate services, which is considered a step forward in the right direction.
Members have been assured by the Administration that there is no intention of setting up trading funds for areas such as social services, which require heavy subsidy from the Government. The Lands and Companies Registries of the Registrar General's Department have been identified by the Administration as the first candidates for trading funds. Resolutions for establishing the trading funds will be presented to Legislative Council for approval, together with the draft framework agreement containing detailed specifications of the services involved. The Administration will also be issuing information pamphlets concerning the trading funds when these resolutions are introduced. Although the resolutions for establishing trading funds are to be presented by the Financial Secretary, the relevant Policy Secretary supported by the general manager of the trading fund will be accountable to Legislative Council for its activities.
In the course of discussion with the Administration, a number of amendments to the Bill have been suggested by Members, and I wish to take this opportunity of thanking my colleagues for their valuable contributions. The amendments will be moved by the Secretary for the Treasury at the Committee stage.
Members have also suggested to the Administration that in changing over to the trading fund status, the services provided would be compared against that provided by the private sector which can compete to provide those services. Equally, it is possible that such services could be provided to the public in competition against existing providers. Members have also pointed out the importance of the quality of management and management strategy for successful operation of the funds, and suggested that in the long run, flexibility should be allowed for recruitment from the private sector. Staff could be employed on contract terms and made directly responsible for the profitability of the enterprise, but the contract terms would have to be clearly stated to avoid unnecessary payments in the event of the closing of the fund. The Administration has agreed to consider these suggestions.
With these remarks, Mr President, and subject to the amendments to be moved by the Secretary for the Treasury, I support the Bill.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993 2419
SECRETARY FOR THE TREASURY: Mr President, I am grateful to Mr Peter WONG and his colleagues on the Bills Committee for their wise counsel and the time they have spent in examining the Bill. As a result, I shall be moving a number of amendments that we have agreed with the Bills Committee.
I agree in general with Mr WONG's description of the aims underlying the creation of trading funds. I would wish only to highlight three points.
Firstly, the Bill before us is an important part of the public sector reform initiative. It establishes a means by which certain public services can be run more like a business and behave in a more business-like manner. This will enable the government departments concerned to provide a more effective and responsive service to their clients.
Secondly, the Bills Committee has taken a close interest in the accountability of trading fund departments. I can assure Honourable Members that clear working relationships will be drawn up between the relevant Policy Secretary and the general manager of a trading fund. These will be embodied in a framework agreement. In general terms, the framework agreement will provide that the Policy Secretary will prescribe the aims and objects of the trading fund, while the general manager will be made responsible for the actual delivery of services to those aims and objects. The Policy Secretary's position in relation to the trading fund department is thus similar to that which he holds in relation to other, vote-funded departments within his policy area. The Policy Secretary will answer questions in the Legislative Council, and he and the general manager will also brief Honourable Members as required on the operations of the trading fund.
Finally, I can confirm that following the enactment of this Bill, the Government plans to introduce trading funds first into the Companies Registry and the Land Registry of the Registrar General's Department. Our aim is to achieve this by the middle of this year. Resolutions for the establishment of these trading funds will, of course, be put to this Council separately.
Mr President, with these remarks, I commend the Trading Funds Bill to Honourable Members.
Question on the Second Reading of the Bill put and agreed to.
Bill read the Second time.
Bill committed to a Committee of the whole Council pursuant to Standing Order 43(1).
2420 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993 AUDIT (AMENDMENT) BILL 1993
Resumption of debate on Second Reading which was moved on 10 February 1993 Question on the Second Reading of the Bill proposed, put and agreed to. Bill read the Second time.
Bill committed to a Committee of the whole Council pursuant to Standing Order 43(1).
Committee stage of Bills
Council went into Committee.
PARENT AND CHILD BILL
Clauses 1, 3, 4, 14 to 17 and 19 were agreed to.
Clauses 2, 5, heading of part IV, section heading of clause 6, clauses 6, 7, section heading of clause 8, clauses 8, 9 to 13 and 18
MRS MIRIAM LAU: Mr Chairman, I move that the clauses specified be amended as set out in the paper circulated to Members.
Clause 6(1)(a) is amended to add "in law" after the word "was". This seeks to make clear that the clause is concerned with the legal parent of the child. As the law only recognizes one father and one mother of a child, the amendment would avoid any misinterpretation that a person can apply to the court under this clause to declare another person to be his father or mother if he has already got a legally recognized father or mother.
Subclause (3)(a) of clause 10 deals with the question of who is to be treated at law as the father of a child born as a result of medical treatment if the mother who received the treatment has no husband. The ad hoc group considered the original drafting of the subclause could be misleading. The amendment now proposed gives a much clearer indication of the relationship between the woman and the man concerned if that man is to be treated as the child's father.
Amendment to subclause (6) of clause 10 is proposed so that the application of the rule that a man will not be treated as a child's father, if his sperm is used after his death to produce the pregnancy, will be confined to purposes of succession only. I have explained during the Second Reading debate of the Bill the reasons for the amendment.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993 2421
Amendment to subclause (7) of clause 12 seeks to empower the court with the authority to subsequently approve those financial payments made between the parties concerned in the application of a parental order under this clause. The reasons of the amendment have also been outlined in my speech made earlier in the Second Reading debate.
The other amendments, including those to the Chinese text of the Bill, are minor editorial amendments for the purpose of clarifying the meaning of the terms used and maintaining consistency in Chinese translation with other legislation.
Mr Chairman, I beg to move.
Proposed amendments
Clause 2
That clause 2 be amended, in the definition of "treatment services", by deleting "provided to the public or a section of the public for the purpose of assisting women to carry children" and substituting "administered for the purpose of assisting a woman to carry a child".
Clause 5
That clause 5(3) be amended, by deleting "該次" and substituting "是次".
Heading of IV
That the heading of part IV be amended, by deleting "宣示" and substituting "宣告".
Section heading of clause 6
That the section heading of clause 6 be amended, by deleting "宣示" and substituting "宣告 ".
Clause 6
That clause 6(1) be amended, by deleting "宣示" wherever it occurs and substituting "宣告 ".
That clause 6(1)(a) be amended, by adding "in law" after "was".
2422 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993
That clause 6(3) be amended, by deleting "宣示" wherever it occurs and substituting "宣告 ".
That clause 6(4) be amended, by deleting "宣示" wherever it occurs and substituting "宣告 ".
That clause 6(5) be amended, by deleting "宣示" wherever it occurs and substituting "宣告 ".
That clause 6(6) be amended, by deleting "宣示" wherever it occurs and substituting "宣告 ".
That clause 6(7) be amended, by deleting "宣示" wherever it occurs and substituting "宣告 ".
That clause 6(8) be amended, by deleting "宣示" wherever it occurs and substituting "宣告 ".
Clause 7
That clause 7(1) be amended —
(a) by deleting "宣示" and substituting "宣告".
(b) by deleting "有關文件" and substituting "該申請所需的文件".
That clause 7(2) be amended, by deleting "不論㆖述有關文件有否向律政司送交" and substituting "不論與本部的申請有關的文件有否送交律政司".
Section heading of clause 8
That the section heading of clause 8 be amended, by deleting "宣示" and substituting "宣告 ".
Clause 8
That clause 8(1) be amended, by deleting "宣示" where it twice occurs and substituting "宣 告".
Clause 9
That clause 9(1) be amended, by deleting "已經" and substituting "曾經".
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993 2423 That clause 9(1) be amended, by deleting "treated" and substituting "regarded". That clause 9(2) be amended, by deleting "treated" and substituting "regarded".
Clause 10
That clause 10 be amended —
(a) by deleting "treated" wherever it appears and substituting "regarded". (b) by deleting subclause (3)(a) and substituting -
"(a) the woman and her male partner together obtained treatment services in the course of which the embryo or the sperm and eggs were placed in the woman or she was artificially inseminated; and".
(c) by deleting subclause (6) and substituting -
"(6) Where the sperm of a man other than -
(a) the other party to the marriage; or
(b) the man referred to in subsection (3),
was used, that man is not to be regarded as the father of the child.
(6A)For the purposes of the law of succession, where -
(a) the sperm of a man was used after his death; or
(b) any embryo was used after the death of the man with whose
sperm the embryo was created,
that man is not to be regarded as the father of the child.".
That clause 10(1) be amended, by deleting "已經" and substituting "曾經". That clause 10(7)(a) be amended, by deleting "存在" and substituting "存續".
2424 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993 Clause 11
That clause 11 be amended, by deleting "treated" wherever it appears and substituting "regarded".
That clause 11(3) be amended, by adding "（不論是在何時制定或訂立）" after "文書或文 件".
Clause 12
That clause 12 be amended —
(a) in subclause (1), by deleting "treated" and substituting "regarded".
(b) in subclause (7), by adding "or subsequently approved" after "authorized".
Clause 13
That clause 13(2)(b) be amended, by deleting "意義" and substituting "價值". That clause 13(4) be amended, by deleting "所作" and substituting "作出".
Clause 18
That clause 18(2)(a)(iii) be amended, by deleting "宣示" and substituting "宣告". Question on the amendments proposed, put and agreed to.
Question on clauses 2, 5, heading of part IV, section heading of clause 6, clauses 6, 7, section heading of clause 8, clauses 8, 9 to 13 and 18, as amended, proposed, put and agreed to.
Schedule
MRS MIRIAM LAU: Mr Chairman, I move that the schedule be amended as set out in the paper circulated to Members.
The amendment to the item relating to the Guardianship of Minors Ordinance concerns the issue of maintenance of illegitimate children. I have already explained during the Second Reading debate of the Bill the background and purpose of the amendment.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993 2425
The proposed deletion of those items relating to various Ordinances concerning civil service pensions is consequential to the passage of the Pensions Modification Bill 1992 earlier this year. The latter has incorporated those amendments relating to civil service pensions originally included in the Bill.
Mr Chairman, I beg to move.
Proposed amendment
Schedule
That schedule be amended —
(a) in the item relating to the Guardianship of Minors Ordinance (Cap. 13), by deleting paragraphs (e) and (f)
and substituting -
"(e) in section 10(2) -
(i) repeal "or both" and substitute "or more";
(ii) in paragraph (b), repeal the full stop and substitute a semicolon;
(iii) add -
"(c) an order requiring the securing to that person by the
parent or either of the parents excluded from having
that custody, to the satisfaction of the court, of such
periodical sum towards the maintenance of the minor as
the court thinks reasonable having regard to the means
of that parent;
(d) an order requiring the transfer to that person for the
benefit of the minor, or to the minor, by the parent or
either of the parents excluded from having that custody,
of such property, being property to which the parent is
entitled (either in possession or reversion), as
2426 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 March 1993
the court thinks reasonable having regard to the means
of that parent;
(e) an order requiring the settlement for the benefit of the
minor, to the satisfaction of the court, of such property,
being property to which the parent or either of the
parents excluded from having that custody is so entitled,
as the court thinks reasonable having regard to the
means of that parent.";
(f) in section 10(4) -
(i) repeal "or" where it secondly appears and substitute a comma;
(ii) add "or for the transfer of property" after "been paid";
(g) in section 11(1)(b) -
(i) repeal "or both" and substitute "or more";
(ii) in subparagraph (ii), repeal the full stop and substitute a
semicolon;
(iii) add -
"(iii) an order requiring the surviving parent to secure
to the guardian, to the satisfaction of the court,
such periodical sum towards the maintenance of
the minor as the court thinks reasonable having
regard to the means of the surviving parent;
(iv) an order requiring the surviving parent to transfer
to the guardian for the benefit of the minor, or to
the minor, such property, being property
No comments yet.
Private notes are available after approval.