1 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL -- 24 June 1992 1 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL -- 24 June 1992 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL -- 24 June 1992 1 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL -- 24 June 1992 1
OFFICIAL RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Wednesday, 24 June 1992
The Council met at half-past Two o'clock
PRESENT
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT
THE HONOURABLE JOHN JOSEPH SWAINE, C.B.E., Q.C., J.P.
THE CHIEF SECRETARY
THE HONOURABLE SIR DAVID ROBERT FORD, K.B.E., L.V.O., J.P.
THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY
THE HONOURABLE DAVID ALAN CHALLONER NENDICK, C.B.E., J.P.
THE ATTORNEY GENERAL
THE HONOURABLE JAMES KERR FINDLAY, O.B.E., Q.C., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ALLEN LEE PENG-FEI, C.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE STEPHEN CHEONG KAM-CHUEN, C.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS SELINA CHOW LIANG SHUK-YEE, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE HUI YIN-FAT, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE MARTIN LEE CHU-MING, Q.C., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE DAVID LI KWOK-PO, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE NGAI SHIU-KIT, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE PANG CHUN-HOI, M.B.E.
THE HONOURABLE SZETO WAH
THE HONOURABLE TAM YIU-CHUNG
THE HONOURABLE ANDREW WONG WANG-FAT, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE LAU WONG-FAT, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE EDWARD HO SING-TIN, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE RONALD JOSEPH ARCULLI, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE MARTIN GILBERT BARROW, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS MIRIAM LAU KIN-YEE, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE LAU WAH-SUM, O.B.E., J.P.
DR THE HONOURABLE LEONG CHE-HUNG, O.B.E.
THE HONOURABLE JAMES DAVID McGREGOR, O.B.E., I.S.O., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS ELSIE TU, C.B.E.
THE HONOURABLE PETER WONG HONG-YUEN, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE ALBERT CHAN WAI-YIP
PROF THE HONOURABLE EDWARD CHEN KWAN-YIU
THE HONOURABLE VINCENT CHENG HOI-CHUEN
THE HONOURABLE MOSES CHENG MO-CHI
THE HONOURABLE MARVIN CHEUNG KIN-TUNG, J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG MAN-KWONG
THE HONOURABLE CHIM PUI-CHUNG
REV THE HONOURABLE FUNG CHI-WOOD
THE HONOURABLE FREDERICK FUNG KIN-KEE THE HONOURABLE TIMOTHY HA WING-HO, M.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL HO MUN-KA
DR THE HONOURABLE HUANG CHEN-YA
THE HONOURABLE SIMON IP SIK-ON, J.P.
DR THE HONOURABLE LAM KUI-CHUN
DR THE HONOURABLE CONRAD LAM KUI-SHING THE HONOURABLE LAU CHIN-SHEK
THE HONOURABLE MISS EMILY LAU WAI-HING THE HONOURABLE LEE WING-TAT
THE HONOURABLE GILBERT LEUNG KAM-HO
THE HONOURABLE ERIC LI KA-CHEUNG, J.P. THE HONOURABLE FRED LI WAH-MING
PROF THE HONOURABLE FELICE LIEH MAK, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURALBE MAN SAI-CHEONG
THE HONOURABLE STEVEN POON KWOK-LIM
THE HONOURABLE HENRY TANG YING-YEN, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE TIK CHI-YUEN
THE HONOURABLE JAMES TO KUN-SUN
DR THE HONOURABLE SAMUEL WONG PING-WAI, M.B.E., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE PHILIP WONG YU-HONG
DR THE HONOURABLE YEUNG SUM
THE HONOURABLE HOWARD YOUNG
THE HONOURABLE ZACHARY WONG WAI-YIN
ABSENT
THE HONOURABLE MRS RITA FAN HSU LAI-TAI, C.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS PEGGY LAM, M.B.E., J.P.
IN ATTENDANCE
MR DAVID ALAN CHALLONER NENDICK, C.B.E., J.P.
SECRETARY FOR MONETARY AFFAIRS who also acted as Financial Secretary
MR MICHAEL LEUNG MAN-KIN, C.B.E., J.P.
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT
MR JOHN CHAN CHO-CHAK, L.V.O., O.B.E., J.P.
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER
MR ALISTAIR PETER ASPREY, O.B.E., A.E., J.P. SECRETARY FOR SECURITY
MRS ELIZABETH WONG CHIEN CHI-LIEN, I.S.O., J.P. SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE
MR ANTHONY GORDON EASON, J.P.
SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS
MR PETER LAI HING-LING, J.P.
SECRETARY FOR CONSTITUTIONAL AFFAIRS
THE CLERK TO THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL MR LAW KAM-SANG
Papers
The following papers were laid on the table pursuant to Standing Order 14(2): Subject
Subsidiary Legislation L.N. No. Subsidiary Legislation L.N. No.
Building (Planning) (Amendment) (No. 2) Building (Planning) (Amendment) (No. 2)
Regulation
1992........................................................... 170/92 1992........................................................... 170/92
Merchant Shipping (Prevention of Oil Pollution)
(Amendment) Regulation 1992...................................... 171/92
Merchant Shipping (Safety) (Minimum Safe Merchant Shipping (Safety) (Minimum Safe
Manning Certificate) Regulation.................................... 172/92
Prison (Amendment) Rules 1992.......................................... 173/92
Prisons (Amendment) Order 1992........................................ Prisons (Amendment) Order 1992........................................
174/92
Immigration (Vietnamese Boat People)
(Detention Centres) (Designation)
(Amendment) (No.3) Order 1992.................................. 175/92 (Amendment) (No.3) Order 1992.................................. 175/92
Immigration (Vietnamese Boat People) (Detention
Centres) (Amendment) (No. 3) Rules 1992..................... Centres) (Amendment) (No. 3) Rules 1992..................... . 3) Rules 1992..................... 176/92
Immigration (Vietnamese Boat People)
(Tai A Chau Detention Centre)
(Amendment) Rules 1992............................................. 177/92
Registrar General (Establishment) (Amendment
of Second Schedule) Order 1992................................... of Second Schedule) Order 1992................................... 178/92
Securities (Accounts and Audit) (Amendment)
Rules
1992.................................................................. 179/92 1992.................................................................. 179/92 Securities (Miscellaneous) (Amendment) Rule 1992................ Securities (Miscellaneous) (Amendment) Rule 1992................ ............. 180/92
Securities (Specification of Approved Assets,
Liquid Assets and Ranking Liabilities)
(Amendment) Notice 1992............................................ 181/92
Wild Animals Protection Ordinance (Amendment
of Second Schedule) Order 1992................................... of Second Schedule) Order 1992................................... 182/92
Commissioner for Administrative Complaints
Ordinance (Amendment of Schedule 1)
Order
1992................................................................. 183/92 1992................................................................. 183/92
Revised Edition of the Laws (Correction of Revised Edition of the Laws (Correction of
Errors) (No. 3) Order 1992.......................................... 184/92
Building (Administration) (Amendment)
Regulation
1992........................................................... 185/92 1992........................................................... 185/92
Medical Practitioners (Registration and Medical Practitioners (Registration and
Disciplinary Procedure) (Amendment) (No. 2)
Regulation
1992........................................................... 186/92 1992........................................................... 186/92
Dangerous Drugs (Amendment of Second Schedule)
Order
1992................................................................. 187/92 1992................................................................. 187/92
Designation of Libraries (Urban Council Area)
Order
1992................................................................. 188/92 1992................................................................. 188/92
Designation of Libraries (Urban Council Area)
(No. 2) Order 1992...................................................... (No. 2) Order 1992...................................................... 189/92
Hong Kong Airport (Restricted Areas and Tenant
Restricted Areas) Order............................................... 190/92
Pleasure Grounds (Urban Council) (Amendment)
Bylaw
1992................................................................. 191/92 1992................................................................. 191/92
Specification of Public Offices............................................. 192/92
Sessional Paper 1991-92
No. 81 -- No. 81 -- Traffic Accident Victims Assistance Fund Traffic Accident Victims Assistance Fund
Annual Report by the Director of
Social Welfare Incorporated for the year from Social Welfare Incorporated for the year from
1 April 1990 to 31 March 1991
Obituary
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: It is my sad duty to speak today to mark the death of our colleague, Stephen NG Ming-yum, and to pay respect to his memory. He was taken from us at the early age of thirty-six after a courageous fight against illness, despite the sustained efforts of his medical team and the loving support of his wife, family and friends.
Stephen was elected to this Council after dedicated public service as an elected member of the District Board and Regional Council. Already he was making his mark in this Council when he was stricken. He continued to take an intense interest in our proceedings to which he contributed with many questions.
To his widow, children and family, I offer our sincerest condolences. After o To his widow, children and family, I offer our sincerest condolences. After other Members have spoken, I will ask that we all stand and observe silence for one minute in honour of his memory.
MR ALLEN LEE (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, the death of Mr NG Ming-yum is a loss not only to this Council but also to Hong Kong. Harbouring great aspirations, Mr NG served on the district board, on the Regional Council, and, on the current term Legislative Council, having been returned to it through direct election last year.
What a pity that when his career had taken off and been soaring from height to height he became stricken with leukemia and passed away. We all feel sorry for his death. Though we have not worked with him for long in this Council, his participation in the Council's business demonstrated his concern for our community's affairs. To his wife and his children I extend our deepest sympathy for their bereavement, and wish them a prosperous future.
MR MARTIN LEE: Mr Deputy President, for the first time in my life, I am making a speech that I do not want to make, as it is a speech that no one likes to hear. The speech that I had deeply looked forward to making was one to welcome NG Ming-yum back to this Chamber, not to bid him farewell.
There are many things that I will forever remember about Ming There are many things that I will forever remember about Ming-yum, a respected colleague, a true friend and a beloved brother. I will remember his personal courage in the face of adversity, the smiling face from a hospital bed in October 1985 that told his attackers: you can beat my body but you will never break my spirit. I will remember his intellect and his balanced judgment which contributed so much to our deliberations. And I will remember his strong principles that never wavered in times when the whole world seemed to be against us.
Yet, the quality I will remember above all is his total commitment to our community. His one object in life was to make our community a better place for all, particularly those who have little, and he was willing to sacrifice himself for our community right up to the very last days of his life, even scribbling Legislative Council questions from his bed in his Room 7 in J8 of the Queen Mary Hospital. His commitment required great personal sacrifices, and I admire and am grateful to his family for the support they gave him, for it was they who suffered from his devotion to community service.
Ming-yum knew that our community was not limited only to Hong Kong. He loved his country as a whole, and he cared deeply about its future. He realized that Hong Kong and China are separated into two systems, but he knew that we are one country. And, he constantly stressed that what we do in Hong Kong is not just for our territory but for our country.
To many, the death of Ming-yum at such a young age is a great tragedy, for he To many, the death of Ming-yum at such a young age is a great tragedy, for he appeared to have lived only half of his life. But life is not measured by the number of years that one has lived, but rather by one's contribution to the community and what one has left behind. Judged by this yardstick, Ming-yum has lived a very full life indeed.
Before Ming-yum passed away, he told us what his last wish would be. And, I would like to close with that today:
Remember, man, thou art dust;
And into dust thou shalt return.
Yes, Lord, let it be.
But let my dust be scattered in But let my dust be scattered in
the rolling waters of the Yellow River.
And, when my friends celebrate the triumph of democracy
in our great country of China,
I will know then that the millions of candles
lit in Tiananmen Square will burn for me;
I will glow in their brightness; I will glow in their brightness;
And, the bells in the churches will toll for me.
For though I've run but half my race,
I know my brothers will finish it for me.
MR WONG WAI-YIN (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, first I would like to begin my speech by borrowing a few opening lines from a poem by John DONNE:
"Death, be not proud,
though some have called thee
Mighty and dreadful, for
thou art not so;
For those whom thou thinkst
thou dost overthrow
Die not, poor Death,
nor yet canst thou kill me."
Ming-yum, our good brother, a vanguard of the pro-democracy camp, lived a short Ming-yum, our good brother, a vanguard of the pro-democracy camp, lived a short life of only 36 years. Yet his 36 short years are glorious, and will always remain so in the hearts of Hong Kong people. The vicious hand of Death grabbed Ming-yum's body when he was only 36. Yet, his zeal for democracy, freedom, human rights and the rule of law will never die. If one could extract by chemical means the elements of democracy and freedom from Ming-yum's body, then I am afraid there would not be much left behind.
Ming-yum has been known to us for well over ten years. To talk about his deeds, Ming-yum has been known to us for well over ten years. To talk about his deeds, his every word and smile would take, I am afraid, far more time than is allowed here;
so I will just cite one or two incidents to illustrate his perseverance and courage in the quest for democracy, freedom and the betterment of people's livelihood.
In 1985, upholding the banner of the pro-democracy camp in a determined move to challenge the vastly influential yet conservative rural interests, Ming-yum stood for election to the Tuen Mun District Board. He sowed the seeds of democracy, but at the same time antagonized local scoundrels. As a result, subsequent to the 1985 elections, he was one day assaulted and hospitalized for serious injuries after
meeting his constituents in a City and New Territories Administration Office. Despite this, his determination to fight for democracy remained unwavered; courageously and steadfastly he forged ahead in his political career, seeking more democratic political reforms. This February Ming-yum unfortunately became stricken with leukemia. With unparalleled resolve and will power he fought the battle against cancer. During this period, I know he had never stopped working for a single day. At times he was very tired, yet he would still press on with his questions on democratic development and people's livelihood. His major concerns were, of course, the 1995 Legislative Council elections and the cost overrun of the University of Science and Technology.
I remember Ming-yum's condition took a turn for the worse on the third annive I remember Ming-yum's condition took a turn for the worse on the third anniversary of the June 4 incident because he had developed hepatitis. It did not, however, prevent him from asking us to send a wreath for him to the candlelight vigil in Victoria Park to mourn the compatriots who laid down their lives in the June 4 incident.
Now Ming-yum has left us. He had two last wishes, which we will never forget. First, it was his earnest wish to be able to see a free and democratic Hong Kong one day and also a free and democratic China. Second, he hoped we would visit his grave as soon as the Chinese Government reverses its stand on the June 4 incident to tell him the news, and if possible, send a wreath to Tiananmen Square on his behalf.
We are bidding farewell to Ming-yum, but we will always miss him. It is only We are bidding farewell to Ming-yum, but we will always miss him. It is only his body that has left us; his spirit is always alive in every heart that cherishes freedom and democracy.
As Jean CHRISTOPHER puts it: "many of the living in our world are more lifeless than the dead." I take a good look at the people around, and I am convinced how true this saying is. Ming-yum, may you rest in peace!
DEPUTY PRESDIENT: May I ask all present to stand and observe silence for one minute. The Council observed one minute's silence
Oral answers to questions
Services for the deaf
1. MR LAU CHIN-SHEK asked (in Cantonese): Will the Government inform this Council: 1. MR LAU CHIN-SHEK asked (in Cantonese): Will the Government inform this Council:
(a) what measures and facilities (such as faxlines for 999 calls) are currently (a) what measures and facilities (such as faxlines for 999 calls) are currently made available to the deaf for making emergency calls;
(b) whether the Gove (b) whether the Gove whether the Government has considered enacting legislation to require TV rnment has considered enacting legislation to require TV stations to produce subtitles in Chinese for all news bulletins and information programmes or to provide sign language interpretation services for emergency announcements, so as to facilitate deaf people's access to public information and community news; and
(c) whether the Government has considered providing sign language interpretation (c) whether the Government has considered providing sign language interpretation services in those government departments engaged in the provision of public services to the community, so as to facilitate better utilization of those services by the deaf?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr Deputy President, this question cuts across the policy purviews of three Branches, that is, Security, Recreation and Culture, as well as Health and Welfare. My reply, therefore, includes input from the other two Branches.
Perhaps I should begin by a general brief mention of the different degrees of hearing impairment. With adequate training and assistance of modern technology such as hearing aids, persons suffering from mild to severe hearing impairment can be taught to communicate orally. Some are also able to communicate through the
telephone. However, oral communication remains a problem with some hearing-impaired persons, who are severely hearing-impaired, those who are profoundly hearing impaired.
As regards part (a) of the question, if a deaf person asks for help through the 999 emergency hotline, his messages will be acted upon as normal 999 emergency calls. Should there be indications that the caller was unable to communicate or should there be other suspicious circumstances, the police will take automatic action to locate the caller, or any other action that is appropriate. 999 emergency calls will not thus present a problem for the police. However, since we know those with serious hearing problem do not normally use telephones, the very existence of 999 emergency call facility may not provide sufficient assurance to them and cater to their needs.
The introduction of emergency telephone-communication service for hearing- The introduction of emergency telephone-communication service for hearing impaired persons seems a very good idea. The possibility of installing faxlines for making 999 emergency calls will be pursued.
As regards part (b) of the question, a Radio Television Hong Kong (RTHK) programme, known as News Review, is currently presented with sign-languages and captions. This programme is televised every Sunday morning between 8:30 am and 9 am. Subtitling is already quite common in TV programmes, particularly on the English channels. The Government is sympathetic to the needs of hearing-impaired persons. We consider that such service should be extended. We urge that RTHK's public affairs programmes for instance be so subtitled. We will also urge local television broadcasters to provide subtitles or sign language interpretation for more programmes as a community service. We favour a voluntary approach instead of making it mandatory as I understand these stations themselves are already trending towards such service.
As regards part (c) of the question, the Government keeps a list of sign As regards part (c) of the question, the Government keeps a list of sign interpreters currently available in Hong Kong. Government departments requiring sign interpretation service may ask for assistance from these sign interpreters. The existing "pool" system, which is also adopted by countries such as the United Kingdom and the United States, provides a practical and effective service to deaf persons.
MR LAU CHIN-SHEK (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, will the Administration inform this Council whether, in considering the feasibility of installing faxlines for making 999 emergency calls and in the eventual implementation, it will provide assistance to those deaf persons, who need the service but financially incapable, to purchase these fax machines?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Indeed, Hong Kong, as the forerunner in adopting new telecommunications technology, is considering many options of enabling deaf persons to communicate through the telephone. According to the information from the Hong Kong Telephone Company, special equipment already exists on the market, with visual rather than acoustic indications; so the various telecommunications technology is available, except that there are certain devices which are not available in the local language. Telecommunications devices for the deaf, known as TTD, can only handle alpha-numeric data but not Chinese characters. I understand that a research project is being sponsored to explore its application. So in other words, in terms of timing, we will do it as quickly as we can; we are exploring all the possibilities. As regards sponsorship or government funding, I think we will explore all avenues.
DR YEUNG SUM (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, some deaf persons told me that they had mistaken what they saw in the news reports about the recent rainstorm in Hong Kong as scenes of floodings in Huadong of China. What specific plans does the Administration have to encourage television stations to provide Chinese captioning in news reports?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: I did say in the main reply that we do not favour putting in place a regulatory framework to compel local television stations to enforce minimum hours of broadcasting, through either caption or sign language. However, I am aware, and I think it is right to say, that Hong Kong television stations are particularly receptive of public opinion. So I feel that if the demand is there, if there is a public view which considers this to be necessary, then the television stations will probably respond very quickly. As I also said in my main reply, they are already trending towards captioning.
MR ERIC LI (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, I understand that the Administration has recently approved the provision of a service called "Tele-tex" by the two local television stations. With this service, basically television stations may broadcast programmes with subtitles by way of another system, thus enabling viewers to choose between programmes with or without the subtitles. Nowadays, technology has made it possible to provide subtitles without affecting the other viewers. What effort has
the Administration made, in approving the use of such technology, to encourage the two television stations to help deaf persons?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Indeed, there are many technological devices, including the Tele-tex; and in the United Kingdom there is a system called "Mini-Comtex". These are all systems which enable, say, deaf persons, to have access to the telephone system by typewritten script rather than verbal, audio script. As I say, the technology is there. The application really depends very much on the demand and the public perception, more particularly, on the application of technology in the local context, because the alpha-numeric data system cannot be easily interpreted in the Chinese language; so research is being conducted in that area.
MR ANDREW WONG (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, many government departments like the Immigration Department, and a number of institutions which are ex-government departments but still under government control like hospitals, have frequent contact with the public. In such departments or hospitals, the names of the persons awaiting service or the numbers of their chips are usually called out through the public
announcement system when it comes to their turn. Such an arrangement is very inconvenient to deaf persons. Has the Administration considered installing some electronic display boards at those public facilities?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: This is being done, Mr Deputy President. The Department of Health has already installed a Digital Display System at each of the five consultation rooms at the Ngau Tau Kok Jockey Club Clinic. It is a pilot scheme; if found successful it will be applied throughout the Hong Kong Government's outpatient clinics. This system in fact replaces the previous arrangement where people call out the patients' names. This is a system which displays a number, which of course was the Honourable Andrew WONG's question. It is an electronic panel which notifies the patient holding the corresponding number through visual display. As regards public hospitals, I am informed that Kwong Wah Hospital is actively considering the installation of a similar device at its Outpatient Department. Given the Hospital Authority's own flexibility in the use of its funds, I think it will help the individual public hospitals, if they so decide, to improve their services in this direction.
Visa policy
2. MR MARTIN BARROW asked: Will the Government inform th 2. MR MARTIN BARROW asked: Will the Government inform th MR MARTIN BARROW asked: Will the Government inform this Council whether it is is Council whether it is its policy to welcome tourists and business visitors from all over the world and, if so, what steps have been taken to ensure that British visa offices are notified of such policy?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, as a regional and world centre for finance, trade, manufacturing and tourism, it is our general policy to welcome tourists and business visitors from all over the world. British visa offices receive regular notification of any changes in Hong Kong's visa requirements which are consistent with this general policy.
MR MARTIN BARROW: Mr Deputy President, the Secretary will recall announcing to this Council in January 1992 that the visa issue time for former Soviet Union citizens will be seven working days for visits of no more than seven days. Could he therefore explain why British visa posts in London, Canada, New Zealand, France and the United States are still informing such potential visitors that it takes six to eight weeks; and would he undertake a complete review of Hong Kong's policy towards such visitors, assuming he agrees that the "Cold War" is over?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, I am quite confident that all visa posts are well aware of the present policy which is that nationals of the former Soviet Union can visit Hong Kong for up to seven days and that those visas can be issued within seven working days. We have seen a rapidly changing situation in the former Soviet bloc, and particularly in the former Soviet Union. We have made a number of changes to our visa policy in response to those changes over the last few years. This is an area that we will keep under regular review and we are in fact looking at the matter again now.
MR LAU WAH-SUM: Mr Deputy President, could the Secretary explain why a citizen of the former Soviet Union can be issued within one day a 28-day visa to visit the United Kingdom at British visa posts in the former Soviet Union, whereas it takes seven
working days for the visitor to obtain a visa to Hong Kong; can Hong Kong not follow the United Kingdom's more liberal practice?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, I cannot comment on the British visa requirements. I do not think that visas are normally issued within one day. All I can say is that our seven working days is related essentially to the time taken to communicate.
MR CHIM PUI-CHUNG (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, I think the original question concerns the tourism industry of Hong Kong because issuing of visas and tourism are closely related. My question is: can the Hong Kong Government consider installing more television sets in waiting lounges of the airport to provide more programmes to visitors on transit or travellers waiting for departure so that they would not feel bored in Hong Kong? This may also benefit the tourism industry of Hong Kong.
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: It is generally within the question but are you able to answer it, Secretary for Security?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: I think probably what is being referred to is the transit lounge at the airport. This is not something that I am responsible for; I will pass this on to the Director of Civil Aviation to consider.
PROF FELICE LIEH MAK: Mr Deputy President, will the Secretary for Security consider issuing visas at the airport for individuals who require a visa but have not obtained it from the country of origin?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, in exceptional circumstances this can be done but it is certainly not something that we would wish to encourage. It is very wasteful of staff time, and the time of the visitors; it holds up queues at the airport which are already long enough. We would wish to resist that as far as possible.
We believe that it is far more cost-effective that when visas are required they should be obtained before coming to Hong Kong.
DR HUANG CHEN-YA (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, the number of tourists and business visitors coming to Hong Kong from Taiwan is increasing and this is significant to the economy of Hong Kong. Can the Administration advise this Council whether it will improve its visa policy towards visitors from Taiwan, or even waive the requirement that an applicant may stay in Hong Kong for not more than seven days so as to encourage more people to come to Hong Kong?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, we have indeed revised the visa procedure for residents of Taiwan within the last two years. We now issue multiple permits to Taiwanese visitors which are valid for two years, which can be renewed within two days, and which allow unlimited entry into Hong Kong for up to 14 days each time within the validity period of the visa.
MR HOWARD YOUNG: Mr Deputy President, in order to translate that welcome mentioned by the Security for Security into reality, can the Secretary undertake to compare both the visa requirements and the issue time required between Hong Kong and the United Kingdom to see whether any anomalies exist will would put us in a less welcoming light to businessmen and tourists?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, yes, we do it whenever we review our visa procedures -- that is certainly something which we do and will continue to do. I would just like to say as a general point that Hong Kong has a very liberal visa regime in comparison with almost any other country. Nationals of about 30 countries require visas to come to Hong Kong; nationals of about 150 countries do not require visit visas.
MR JIMMY McGREGOR: Mr Deputy President, could the Secretary advise if the general policy also applies to seamen? And if so, could he explain why 21 Russian seamen on board the St. Petersburg Senator at Kwai Chung for the past 24 hours have not been allowed ashore?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, no, I cannot explain that. I am not aware of the case but I will look into it.
Police overtime work
3. MR JAMES TO asked (in Cantonese): Will the Government inform this Council: 3. MR JAMES TO asked (in Cantonese): Will the Government inform this Council:
(a) the number of hours of overtime work that have been accumulated by police (a) the number of hours of overtime work that have been accumulated by police officers of various ranks in the Police Force; the number of years since these overtime working hours have been accumulated and the number of police officers involved;
(b) how the Government deals with these accumulated overtime working hours; what (b) how the Government deals with these accumulated overtime working hours; what compensation will be given in respect of the overtime working hours accumulated by a police officer who is killed on duty; and
(c) whether there are any plans to reduce the overtime work of the police (c) whether there are any plans to reduce the overtime work of the police officers?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, as at 1 May 1992, the total amount of overtime work accumulated by police officers was 880 127 hours. This figure has been accumulated by some 20 000 officers, in all ranks from constable to Chief Inspector. Some officers have accumulated their overtime over a period of years. It is, however, not possible to give an overall historical picture. This is because the system for recording and calculating overtime has been modified over the years and the total number of accumulated overtime hours fluctuates on a daily basis.
Overtime work is compensated for in accordance with Civil Service Regulations. Overtime work is compensated for in accordance with Civil Service Regulations. Compensation is normally by way of time-off in lieu within a reasonable period of time. An individual Police District Commander will take into consideration the deployment needs and manpower situation in his district in granting time-off. Where time-off cannot be granted within a reasonable period of time, Disciplined Services Overtime Allowance (DSOA) may be paid for hours of overtime worked. As far as I am aware, there has been only one case of an officer killed on duty who had accumulated overtime hours. In that case, an ex gratia payment was made to the estate of the officer equivalent to the cash value of the outstanding accumulated time-off hours.
The Police Force has recently issued revised orders to achieve better management The Police Force has recently issued revised orders to achieve better management of overtime. These orders clarify and simplify the procedures for recording overtime, and the conditions for time-off in lieu or payment of DSOA. They are designed to ensure that all officers receive prompt and accurate recompense for any overtime worked, and to prevent the build-up of large balances of unrecompensed overtime.
MR JAMES TO (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, the Secretary mentioned in the second paragraph of his reply that the officers concerned would be granted time-off in lieu within a reasonable period of time and that where time-off could not be granted within a reasonable period of time, DSOA would be paid. But I believe "you cannot eat your cake and have it". By "overtime allowance within a reasonable period of time", it means cash compensation. What exactly is a "reasonable period of time"? Also, the Secretary said a Police District Commander will take into consideration the
deployment needs and manpower situation. Would it be difficult for officers to be paid overtime allowance when deployment needs and manpower situation are both tense?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, I suppose that "reasonable" is a flexible concept. I think what I would say though is that the Police Force management have made considerable progress over the past year in reducing the backlog of overtime by granting time-off. In this way, the total backlog has been reduced over the past 12 months from 1.3 million hours to about 0.8 million hours. The Police Force
management intend to treat as far as possible all officers with accumulated overtime on the same basis and to continue as far as possible to reduce the backlog by granting time-off in lieu.
MRS MIRIAM LAU: Mr Deputy President, can the Secretary inform this Council whether the effort to prevent the build-up of large balances of unrecompensed overtime, referred to in the last paragraph of his answer, would involve encouraging more officers to take time-off in lieu? If so, in the light of the current manpower shortage within the Police Force, can the Secretary explain how this is possible without compromising the ability of the police to maintain law and order?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, I think what I meant was that the police intend to manage the whole process better by ensuring that the criteria for granting
overtime is consistently applied throughout the force, that is to say, overtime is granted only when it is absolutely necessary, only when the duties cannot be deferred and only when they cannot be performed by another officer not required to perform overtime.
As regards the second part of the question, I am quite confident that the Police Force management are well able to manage this problem in the way that they have been doing to achieve both a reduction in the backlog of overtime by granting time-off in lieu and to maintain an adequate police presence on the streets.
DR YEUNG SUM (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, according to the information collected by the Security Policy Group of the United Democrats of Hong Kong, the present situation of overtime in the police is very serious. This will obviously affect the morale of police officers in performing their duties. Would the Administration inform this Council whether there are any ways to alleviate this situation?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, I think I have covered that in the main answer. The police are endeavouring to reduce this backlog and are doing so with some considerable success by gradually granting time-off in lieu to those officers who have accumulated large balances and by a new system of management which endeavours to ensure that such large balances will not be accumulated in future. I should, perhaps, just add that the recruitment situation in the police has improved quite markedly in recent months. As new officers come out of the Police Training School and are deployed on the streets, it should be easier for the police to continue with this practice.
REV FUNG CHI-WOOD (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, it would seriously affect their morale if police officers work overtime without being granted DSOA. In his reply, the Secretary mentioned that time-off in lieu would be granted under reasonable circumstances, and DSOA would be paid if the granting of time-off in lieu proved to be impossible. For how long on average does a police officer normally have to work overtime before the payment of DSOA is considered? Would the Secretary also inform this Council how many hours of overtime were recompensed by way of DSOA payment in the past year?
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: That is two questions, Secretary for Security.
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Yes, Mr Deputy President. I cannot say when any individual officer -- or even all officers -- will be paid overtime or will receive time-off in lieu. That will depend very much on the circumstances of the individual case and on the situations within the particular formations in which officers are serving. But I would like to make it clear that overtime is regularly paid. For example, in the last financial year some $270 million in DSOA was paid to police officers.
I am sorry, Mr Deputy President, I forget the second part of the question. DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Strictly, he was entitled to one question only.
MR MOSES CHENG: Mr Deputy President, will the Administration advise this Council whether the Police Force management have set a level of permitted accumulation of overtime work, taking into consideration the force size, the operational needs and the time targeted for the present backlog to be reduced to such level?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, what the Police Force management are endeavouring to achieve is that each officer will be allowed to accumulate and carry forward only a specified maximum of overtime. And, they are trying to work towards that.
China Motor Bus
4. MR WONG WAI-YIN asked (in Cantonese): In view of the Government's recent 4. MR WONG WAI-YIN asked (in Cantonese): In view of the Government's recent announcement to extend the franchise of the China Motor Bus Company (CMB) by two years, to discontinue the Company's existing profit control scheme as from 1 September, 1993 and to put 26 routes presently operated by the Company to public tender, will Government inform this Council:
(a) after abolishing the CMB's profit control scheme, (a) after abolishing the CMB's profit control scheme, after abolishing the CMB's profit control scheme, what changes will be made what changes will be made to the mechanism to monitor the operations of CMB and the future successful bidders;
(b) what criteria will be adopted in setting future bus fares; (b) what criteria will be adopted in setting future bus fares;
(c) what measures will be adopted to encourage the bus companies to improve t (c) what measures will be adopted to encourage the bus companies to improve their operational efficiency;
(d) how such changes will protect the interests of consumers; and (d) how such changes will protect the interests of consumers; and
(e) whether the Government has plans to phase out the profit control schemes of (e) whether the Government has plans to phase out the profit control schemes of other public transport companies?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT: Mr Deputy President, the answers to Mr WONG's five-part question are as follows:
(a) First, changes to strengthen the monitoring mechanism under the Public Bus (a) First, changes to strengthen the monitoring mechanism under the Public Bus Services Ordinance will include provisions prescribing the formation of passenger liaison groups, the establishment of a trust for pension funds, a computer link giving the Government instant access to operational information, transitional arrangements governing the disposal of any surplus in the Development Fund and other assets, and the shared use of bus stops and terminal facilities.
(b) Second, all public transport operators except CMB and KMB do not have a p (b) Second, all public transport operators except CMB and KMB do not have a profit control scheme. In considering their fare increase applications, the Government normally allows them to recover costs and earn a reasonable profit, having regard to factors including service quality, commitment to further investments, previous profit levels, changes in the operating environment, inflation and other socio
economic conditions.
(c) Third, apart from strengthening the monitoring mecha (c) Third, apart from strengthening the monitoring mecha Third, apart from strengthening the monitoring mechanism and making the nism and making the supply of franchised bus services more competitive, we are improving the current system of regular performance appraisals. These cover service availability, punctuality, maintenance, safety, planning and development, as well as general management. The results will be released for public information and scrutiny. The objective is to encourage the bus companies to become more accountable to their customers.
In addition, we also intend to strengthen the penalty provisions in the Pu In addition, we also intend to strengthen the penalty provisions in the Public Bus Services Ordinance to prevent the cost of penalties from being passed on to passengers.
(d) Fourth, closer monitoring and greater transparency are expected to deter (d) Fourth, closer monitoring and greater transparency are expected to deter avoidable cost escalation. Wider exposure to market forces will make the bus companies more customer-oriented and result in better value for money for passengers.
(e) Finally, as and when a franchise is due for renewal, the Government will (e) Finally, as and when a franchise is due for renewal, the Government will consider carefully whether existing franchise terms, including any profit control scheme, should be rolled forward in their present form.
MR WONG WAI-YIN (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, currently the franchised bus companies including KMB and CMB have individual five-year plans which make longer-term planning for development of bus routes within their respective areas of operation. Would the overall formulation of plans for bus service on the Hong Kong Island be switched to the Government, should the Island have more than one bus companies providing service?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT: Mr Deputy President, the short answer is no. The Government and the transport operators will together plan the future development of routes in consultation, as always, with the district boards concerned. Under the existing arrangements, the CMB will be given another two-year extension. The future plans on a five-year basis will carry on but the main objective is to have these plans rolled forward on an annual basis. In other words, there will be a firm plan for the coming year but there will be only a forecast plan for the next four years. It has been our practice every year to consult district boards on the immediate plan for the coming year. The same arrangement will apply to the new franchised operators on the Island as regards these forward planning programmes, which will be drawn up together with the government department concerned and in consultation with district boards.
PROF EDWARD CHEN: Mr Deputy President, from the Administration's answer it is evident that a great deal of the monitoring work falls on the Government. My question relates not only to the Secretary for Transport but also to the Secretary for Economic Services. Unfortunately, the latter Secretary is not here but perhaps the Secretary for Transport could answer my question. Will the Administration inform this Council
whether it thinks there is sufficient expertise in the Government to monitor public utilities, especially in the case of transport companies? It is because when it comes to the increase of fares, assessment of development plans, renewal of franchise and so on, all would depend on the Government's assessment and I doubt very much if the Government has sufficient expertise. Would the Administration inform this Council how many professional staff there are within the Government to perform this job and what their background, qualification and specialization are?
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Secretary for Transport, in so far as you are able to.
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT: Thank you, Mr Deputy President. I can only answer in so far as the question relates to transport. The general answer to Prof CHEN's question is that the Government does have expertise both in the financial monitoring unit of the Economic Services Branch and in the Transport Department which has a team of professional officers who are fully qualified to assess bus operations. We also
commission consultants from time to time to give advice in the particular areas where we need further improvements. I cannot give details today on the number of staff but I will supply that in writing separately. (Annex I)
MRS MIRIAM LAU: Mr Deputy President, can the Secretary inform this Council what penalties will be in place to deal with non-compliance by franchisees with the provisions referred to under paragraph (a) of his answer; whether there will be earlier termination of the franchise or whether there will be merely non-renewal of the franchise upon expiration?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT: Mr Deputy President, the penalties I have in mind are mainly on the financial side. In other words, we are going to increase the fines for the bus company in the case of failure to deliver services, and these fines are intended to be very high so as to ensure that they are effective as a deterrent.
MR LAU CHIN-SHEK (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, can the Secretary inform this Council if the Administration would take into account questions of improper operation or management, in addition to the factors mentioned in the main reply, when
considering fare increase applications? If not, why not? If yes, how is the monitoring conducted?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT: Mr Deputy President, the answer, I think, I have already given in my main reply. In other words, we do have a system of performance appraisals and this system is now being refined to give more clear-cut indicators of performance covering such details as service quality, punctuality, safety, maintenance and so on. These will be combined with our fare increase application assessments in the coming year to ensure that the operators must satisfy the Government, when their fare increase applications are considered, that they are delivering a service which is efficient and acceptable. So the short answer is that there are sufficient
safeguards to ensure that the quality of service is maintained at a satisfactory level before we support operators' fare increase applications.
MR ANDREW WONG (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, an amendment was proposed in 1974 and subsequently passed in 1975 to the Public Bus Services Ordinance and hence its present form. In that original Ordinance before the amendment in 1974, there was a section stipulating to the effect that if a bus company should make excessive profits,
the Government shall derive extra tax revenue from it. But this section was repealed by the amendment and substituted with the scheme of profit control. Given that the Administration does not have a scheme of profit control for CMB, there will be none for the other Island bus company as well. Will the Government then propose an
amendment again to add that particular clause to the existing Public Bus Services Ordinance?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT: Mr Deputy President, I believe that the basic objective is to ensure that the passengers are getting value for money in that they are getting good quality services at fares which are reasonable. I do not believe the Government should derive more tax revenue from the extra income of the bus companies themselves. I believe the operators themselves should have the incentive to make sure that their services are effective, and to plough back any extra income into their operations so as to continue to provide good quality services. I do not think the Government is intending to get revenue out of these operations.
Discrimination against women
5. MR ANDREW WONG asked (in Cantonese): Will the Government inform this Council of 5. MR ANDREW WONG asked (in Cantonese): Will the Government inform this Council of measures taken to eliminate discrimination against women, including progress in the following:
(a) the work of the inter-departmental working group on sex discrimination (a) the work of the inter-departmental working group on sex discrimination problem in employment;
(b) the setting up of a women's commission; and (b) the setting up of a women's commission; and
(c) the extension of the United Nations' "Convention on the Elimination of All (c) the extension of the United Nations' "Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women" to Hong Kong?
SECRETARY FOR CONSTITUTIONAL AFFAIRS: Mr Deputy President, the inter-departmental working group on sex discrimination in employment, chaired by the Secretary for Education and Manpower, was set up in March of this year. Its work is to ascertain the extent to which discrimination in employment based on sex is a problem in Hong Kong, and to consider what government measures, if any, should be taken to tackle it. The working group will also advise the Government whether, in so far as employment matters are concerned, the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women (CEDAW) should be extended to Hong Kong.
The working group has consulted relevant academic studies, established dialogue with interested women's groups and is examining a number of subjects related to sex discrimination in employment. Since the working group is still in the process of deliberation, it is premature for me to say what its findings and recommendations will be.
The proposal that a "Women's Commission" should be set up to advise the Government on policies for women was put forward by some women's groups back in 1991. An ad hoc group of this Council has recently completed a study on the need to establish a Women's Commission in Hong Kong. In a recent In-House meeting of this Council, Members were in favour of the setting up of an advisory committee. The proposal was conveyed to the Administration in May this year and is now being carefully studied.
The question of whether the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of
Discrimination Against Women should be applied to Hong Kong is being examined by the Administration. We have to make sure that Hong Kong can comply with the provisions of the Convention before we are in a position to ask the United Kingdom Government to extend the Convention to Hong Kong. The international obligations arising from the Convention are complex. It might lead to the enactment of anti-discrimination legislation applying to the private sector, which might create problems of
enforcement as well as significant economic and social consequences.
Mr Deputy President, a major step against sex discrimination has been taken in June 1991 with the enactment by this Council of the Bill of Rights Ordinance. That Ordinance, together with the related amendment to the Letters Patent, prohibits discriminatory practices against women in the public sector, as well as discriminatory laws against women. I recognize that the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women goes further in outlawing discrimination in the private and public sectors. It is because the Convention, if implemented, would have such a direct and possibly serious impact on the public that a detailed study of the issues involved is required.
MR ANDREW WONG (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, the Secretary's reply cannot be regarded as a reply at all. He replied that the proposal to set up a "Women's Commission" is now being studied; that the question of whether the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women be extended to Hong Kong is being examined; and that the inter-departmental working group set up in March is also working. Mr Deputy President, I asked about the progress of the respective work, but the reply seemed to say that no progress has been made at all. If there is no progress now, then when shall we see some progress? What deadline has been set for the completion of studies on these priority items?
SECRETARY FOR CONSTITUTIONAL AFFAIRS: Mr Deputy President, the subject of anti discrimination laws, which needs to be addressed in the context of assessing whether the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women should be adopted in Hong Kong, is a complex one. I do not agree that either the Administration or the inter-departmental working group chaired by the Secretary for Education and Manpower has made absolutely no progress at all. But we must accept that the matters being addressed are complex and varied. Amongst the many things to be examined, the inter-departmental working group has to look at the question of
women in employment, whether discrimination exists, the extent to which any such discrimination exists, the question of vocational training for women, the question of sex discrimination in job advertisements, and the question of protective legislation for women employed in industrial undertakings. We will also need to look at the possibility of legislation on equal employment opportunities for both sexes -- we have not got that in Hong Kong yet. We are looking at the experience of neighbouring and other countries. These are some of the examples that we have to look at. We are not in a position yet to announce any recommendations or findings because, by the very nature of the working group's deliberations, findings cannot really be available until after the deliberations are concluded.
On the question of timing, I can only assure the Honourable Member that the inter-departmental working group, and indeed the Administration generally, in looking at all the three issues mentioned by the Honourable Member, will do their best to ensure that the matter will be concluded as soon as practicable. I would certainly hope that the working group would complete their deliberations towards the end of the year.
MR GILBERT LEUNG (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, the New Territories Small House Policy adopted by the Government in 1972 applies only to male villagers aged above 18. Could the Government inform this Council whether it will set an example by abolishing this unequal treatment for men and women so that female villagers may be entitled to small house grants?
SECRETARY FOR CONSTITUTIONAL AFFAIRS: Mr Deputy President, as this Council was informed during the Second Reading of the Bill of Rights Bill on 25 July 1990, the fact that customary law in the New Territories treats women in a way different to men does not mean that the law is necessarily discriminatory under the Bill of Rights, or indeed under Hong Kong Law. The United Nations Human Rights Committee have observed that it is not mere differentiation of treatment that constitutes discrimination. If the grounds for the differentiation of treatment are reasonable and objective and the purpose is a legitimate one, then such treatment will not be regarded as discriminatory.
MR WONG WAI-YIN (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, I am very much worried by the
Secretary's remark in his reply that the adoption of anti-discrimination law in Hong Kong might create significant economic and social consequences. Could the Secretary please explain to this Council in detail why that is so?
SECRETARY FOR CONSTITUTIONAL AFFAIRS: Mr Deputy President, I can only say at present that the adoption of positive anti-discrimination legislation in employment in Hong Kong will certainly have some effect on the wage structure in Hong Kong. The precise extent of any such effect -- and indeed the question of the desirability of such legislation in the light of its practical implication -- is a matter being looked into actively by the inter-departmental working group which I refer to in my main answer.
MISS EMILY LAU (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, I would like to follow up on Mr WONG Wai-yin's question. Since the Government thinks that an extension of the Convention to Hong Kong might create significant economic and social consequences, it means that the Government recognizes the existence of very serious discrimination against women in Hong Kong. In view of this recognition could the Government undertake immediately to introduce measures as soon as possible to remove all forms discrimination against women and to extend the Convention fully to Hong Kong as well?
SECRETARY FOR CONSTITUTIONAL AFFAIRS: Mr Deputy President, from the initial discussions and deliberations of the inter-departmental working group it is pretty clear that some evidence exists of some form of discrimination in Hong Kong. It is of course the work of the inter-departmental working group to find out the precise extent of such discrimination. I can only say, Mr Deputy President, in answer to the Honourable Member's question, that where effective, adaptable and practicable measures are available to deal with and to combat any form of discrimination that we have identified, of course the Government will certainly be very interested to adopt them.
Whole-day primary schooling
6. MR LEE WING-TAT asked (in Cantonese): With the Government's decision to shelve 6. MR LEE WING-TAT asked (in Cantonese): With the Government's decision to shelve the plan for whole-day primary schooling at newly built schools, will the Government
inform this Council:
(a) of the additional estimated annual capital and recurrent expenses over a (a) of the additional estimated annual capital and recurrent expenses over a 15-year period should the plan for whole-day primary schooling at newly built schools be proceeded with (at 1992 prices);
(b) of the reasons for shelving the plan and wheth (b) of the reasons for shelving the plan and wheth of the reasons for shelving the plan and whether the Government will er the Government will reconsider the views of the education sector and the public to implement the whole-day schooling plan in the coming school year?
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER: Mr Deputy President, before answering the specific points in the question, I wish to make it clear that there has never been any plan for whole-day primary schooling at newly-built schools. It follows therefore that there is no question of shelving such a plan. What the Government has decided is to set whole-day schooling as a long-term goal. Our policy now is to work towards this goal by encouraging schools to convert to whole-day operation when demographic changes allow. This encouragement takes the form of providing additional teachers for those schools which are already operating whole-day classes or which may turn whole-day from now on.
On part (a) of the question, I have tabled an estimate of what the annual capital and recurrent costs might have been if whole-day schooling were to be achieved in 14 years from the 1992-93 school year. At March 1992 prices, the cost would have been $140 million in the first year rising progressively to $761 million in the 14th year, or a total of $6.5 billion for the 14-year period as a whole. I should add that the cost estimate, which was prepared some time ago for planning purposes, is in respect of implementing whole-day schooling in all primary schools, including both newly built and existing schools.
As regards part (b) of the question, the Government is already aware of general As regards part (b) of the question, the Government is already aware of general public support for the concept of whole-day schooling, and has taken full account of this support in reaching its decision to encourage schools to convert to whole-day operation where possible and to provide additional teachers for such schools.
Estimated Cost of Implementing Whole-day Schooling
comprehensively over 14 years (in $m at March 1992 prices)
Recurrent (1) Non-recurrent (2) Recurrent (1) Non-recurrent (2) Non-recurrent (2) Total
1992 135.0 1992 135.0 5.8 140.8
1993 156.2 1993 156.2 1.1 157.3
1994 175.4 1994 175.4 4.1 179.5
1995 193.6 1995 193.6 28.1 221.7
1996 212.4 1996 212.4 70.9 283.3
1997 233.1 1997 233.1 111.0 344.1
1998 260.0 1998 260.0 141.4 401.4
1999 301.9 1999 301.9 168.5 470.4
2000 340.9 2000 340.9 192.3 533.2
2001 372.7 2001 372.7 228.6 601.3
2002 413.2 2002 413.2 287.9 701.1
2003 458.7 2003 458.7 350.1 808.8
2004 509.9 2004 509.9 362.7 872.6
2005 565.6 2005 565.6 195.5 761.1
(1) includes costs for addit (1) includes costs for addit includes costs for additional teachers, clerks, janitors and the enhancement ional teachers, clerks, janitors and the enhancement grant of $950 per class.
(2) includes capital cost for building 66 additional primary schools, staff training (2) includes capital cost for building 66 additional primary schools, staff training costs and additional tables and benches for existing schools.
MR LEE WING-TAT (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, it was mentioned in the Education Commission Report No. 4 that the Education Commission had accepted the views of groups to recommend to the Executive Council that whole-day schooling be phased in for all primary schools within 14 years. Can the Administration advise this Council why it did not adopt the proposal originally recommended by the Education Commission but instead adopted the previous approach of natural conversion?
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER: Mr Deputy President, the Fourth Report of the Education Commission did not -- and I repeat did not -- include any recommendation for a phased programme for implementation of whole-day schooling in all primary
schools. What ECR4 contained were recommendations for implementing mixed-mode schooling in primary schools, that is to say, whole-day operation for Primary V and VI and bisessional operation for other classes. The recommendations as regards
mixed-mode schooling met with considerable public opposition during the period of consultation following the publication of ECR4, and it was in the light of the public comment that the Government eventually decided not to pursue the concept of mixed-mode schooling and to go back to adopting whole-day schooling as a long-term goal and allowing and encouraging schools to convert as circumstances allow.
MRS SELINA CHOW: Mr Deputy President, can the Secretary tell this Council whether it would have been possible to produce enough well-qualified teachers for primary schools if all of them were to turn whole-day as was indicated in the planning figures given?
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER: Mr Deputy President, I think the answer to that question is that there would probably have been some difficulties. In my own view, until certain important issues relating to the training, recruitment and retention of teachers had been addressed, as they now have in the Fifth Report of the Education Commission, then there might have been difficulties in seeking to implement whole-day schooling across the board within a relatively short time.
MR CHEUNG MAN-KWONG (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, I wish to point out a mistake in Mr John CHAN's answer to Mr LEE Wing-tat's question. On completion of its collection of public opinions, the Education Commission did recommend to the Executive Council that whole-day schooling be phased in for primary schools within 14 years. The Education Commission has this document. However, the Education Commission now recommends to the Executive Council a scenario of natural conversion to whole-day schooling in primary schools. These two different opinions were both proposed by the Education Commission and both were substantiated by documents. Does the Administration have this document and on what basis did the Education Commission change its mind within such a short time?
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER: Mr Deputy President, I do not think I have made any mistake in my answer to Mr LEE Wing-tat's earlier question. What I said was that the Fourth Report of the Education Commission itself did not include any recommendations for full-scale implementation of whole-day schooling across the board. I am not at liberty to disclose what specific recommendations were put to
the Executive Council by the Administration; all I can say is whatever recommendations that might be put to the Executive Council may or may not always be accepted.
MR LEE WING-TAT (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, the Administration has publicly claimed that the teacher training programme contained in the Education Commission Report No. 5 is more important than the whole-day schooling in primary schools included in Report No. 4. Can the Administration advise this Council whether these two proposals have been prioritized after a consultation of public opinion? If not, then on what grounds was the argument that teacher training should be placed before whole-day schooling in primary schools founded?
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER: Mr Deputy President, again I do not think I actually said that I put one on top of another in terms of priority. What I did say was of course that the whole-scale implementation of whole-day schooling would have required many more additional teachers and until such time as we can be certain that we have the right arrangements to train, recruit and retain the necessary number of teachers, there could be practical problems in the implementation of whole-day
schooling within a relatively short time frame. As far as consulting the public is concerned, we have of course heard views from the public in the course of consultation on ECR4 regarding whole-day and mixed-mode schooling. We are now going to the public in ECR5 to seek their views on a series of recommendations concerning the teaching profession and I would like to take this opportunity to urge the public to let us have their views.
MR CHEUNG MAN-KWONG (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, according to newspaper reports a few days ago, the Administration has ceased to pursue the phased programme for implementation of whole-day schooling in primary schools because of financial considerations and priority reasons. That priority means that the just published ECR5 has a higher priority than that of the recommendation for whole-day schooling contained in ECR4. The newspapers that we read clearly quoted the opinion of Mr John CHAN. That is why I feel that he had said things to this effect. Mr LEE Wing-tat's question is well founded. Why could the question of teacher training mentioned by a report yet to be consulted upon take priority before the whole-day schooling in primary schools recommended by ECR4, a report on which public views have already been sought?
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER: Mr Deputy President, I think it would be right to say that if we had taken a firm commitment to adopt a timed programme for the whole-scale implementation of whole-day schooling, then that would have probably foreclosed the option on implementing some or many of the recommendations in ECR5 as far as financial resources are concerned. Our present position is that we have not foreclosed any option and certainly we have not foreclosed the option of
implementing whole-day schooling. In fact we are implementing whole-day schooling, we are encouraging schools to convert when circumstances allow and we are giving schools additional resources if they already operate or will turn whole-day. If at the end of public consultation we were to get a clear message that the public would prefer whole-day schooling within a specific time frame to all the recommendations in ECR5, then the option would still be open for that to be done.
Written answers to questions
Electricity supply to rural villages
7. MRS PEGGY LAM asked: In view of the inconvenience caused to the villagers by 7. MRS PEGGY LAM asked: In view of the inconvenience caused to the villagers by MRS PEGGY LAM asked: In view of the inconvenience caused to the villagers by the lack of electricity supply to some rural villages in Hong Kong, will the Government inform this Council:
(a) how many villages are at present lacking in electricity supply; (a) how many villages are at present lacking in electricity supply;
(b) whether the electric companies concerned will be asked to arrange for (b) whether the electric companies concerned will be asked to arrange for electricity supply to these villages;
(c) if so, when will such electricity supply programmes be completed; (c) if so, when will such electricity supply programmes be completed; (d) if not, what are the reasons? (d) if not, what are the reasons?
SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES: Mr Deputy President, the electricity companies have a statutory responsibility to supply electricity to any party who applies to be connected to the supply, unless there are good reasons for not doing so. An applicant aggrieved by refusal of the relevant electricity company to supply electricity may appeal to the Director of Electrical and Mechanical Services. No instances of such
refusals or appeals have been recorded in recent years.
As far as our records show, no village of any significant population is now without an electricity supply. If any villager considers that his village should have such a supply in spite of its remoteness or small population, he should contact the electricity company direct requesting the connection of a supply. He may also seek the assistance of his local District Office if he encounters any difficulty in obtaining a supply.
Unauthorized occupation of pavements
8. MR TIMOTHY HA asked: In view of the common practice of some shop operators of 8. MR TIMOTHY HA asked: In view of the common practice of some shop operators of making unauthorized use of the pavements for vending and other private purposes, thus forcing pedestrians to walk on the carriageways, and causing inconvenience and danger; will the Government inform this Council:
(a) which government departments and how many staff are responsible for enfor (a) which government departments and how many staff are responsible for enforcing the legislation which prohibits unauthorized occupation of pavements by shop operators;
(b) how many offenders have been prosecuted and punished for violation of such (b) how many offenders have been prosecuted and punished for violation of such legislation in each of the past three years; and
(c) how the Government monitors the effectiveness of the existing legislation (c) how the Government monitors the effectiveness of the existing legislation in curbing such malpractices; and whether consideration has been given to imposing heavier penalties to achieve the necessary deterrent effect?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, a number of government departments have responsibility for enforcing legislation against unauthorized use of pavements by shop operators depending upon the nature of the offence. Prime responsibility, however, lies with the police, the Urban Services Department and the Regional Services Department. Annex A summarizes present legislation, and gives details of the department responsible for enforcement, and the number of staff available for enforcement. (These staff all have many other duties as well.)
Annex B gives details of prosecutions for the past three years.
The departments concerned keep the legislation under regular review to ensure The departments concerned keep the legislation under regular review to ensure that it continues to be effective. We consider the present penalties are adequate.
Annex A
Summary of provisions concerning obstruction or
unauthorized use of pavements
Statutory Responsible Statutory Responsible Responsible Number of Number of provisions Offence/Punishment provisions Offence/Punishment Offence/Punishment department(s) department(s) department(s) saff involved saff involved
Section 4A, Obstructing, Section 4A, Obstructing, Obstructing, Police Beat patrol Beat patrol
Summary inconveniencing Summary inconveniencing inconveniencing officers officers
Offences or endangering Offences or endangering or endangering USD 1 400 staff 1 400 staff
Ordinance any person or vehicle Ordinance any person or vehicle
(Cap 228) in public place. (Cap 228) in public place. in public place. RSD 910 staff 910 staff
A fine of $5,000 or
imprisonment for
three months.
Section Obstructions to Section Obstructions to Obstructions to USD No specific number No specific number
22(1)(a) and scavenging or 22(1)(a) and scavenging or scavenging or of enforcement of enforcement
Ninth conservancy Ninth conservancy conservancy officers, but officers, but
Schedule, operations. Schedule, operations. operations. periodic opera periodic opera periodic operations
Public Health involving large Public Health involving large
and Municipal A fine of $1,500 and and Municipal A fine of $1,500 and A fine of $1,500 and number of officers number of officers Services a daily fine of $25, Services a daily fine of $25, a daily fine of $25, are carried out. are carried out.
Ordinance possibly forfeiture Ordinance possibly forfeiture
(Cap 132) of goods or articles (Cap 132) of goods or articles of goods or articles RSD 910 staff 910 staff
that cause
obstruction.
Statutory Responsible Statutory Responsible Responsible Number of Number of
provisions Offence/Punishment provisions Offence/Punishment Offence/Punishment department(s) department(s) department(s) saff involved saff involved
Section Hawking without Section Hawking without Hawking without USD No specific number No specific number
83B(3) and licence. 83B(3) and licence. licence. of enforcement of enforcement
Ninth officers but periodic Ninth officers but periodic
Schedule, On firs Schedule, On firs On first conviction: t conviction: t conviction: operations involving operations involving Public Health A fine of $2,500, Public Health A fine of $2,500, A fine of $2,500, large number of large number of and Municipal daily fine of $150 and Municipal daily fine of $150 daily fine of $150 officers are officers are Services and one month Services and one month and one month carried out. carried out.
Ordinance imprisonment plus Ordinance imprisonment plus
(Cap 132) mandatory forfeiture (Cap 132) mandatory forfeiture mandatory forfeiture RSD 910 staff 910 staff of goods.
On second or
subsequent conviction:
A fine of $5,000,
daily fine of $150
and six months
imprisonment plus
mandatory forfeiture
of goods.
Annex B
Number of summonses applied for by police against shop operators for causing obstruction in the last three years
Year 1989 Year 1989 1990 1991 1992 Total (Jan-Apr)
Number of 20 768 Number of 20 768 20 921 14 956 4 366 61 011 summonses
issued
Number of prosecutions taken out by USD staff for
unauthorized occupation of pavements for the past three years Year 1989 Year 1989 1990 1991 Total Total
Section 4A of 586 Section 4A of 586 687 882 2 155
Summary Offences
Ordinance, (Cap 228)
Section 22(1)(a) 3 647 Section 22(1)(a) 3 647 3 949 4 624 12 220
of Public Health
and Municipal Services
Ordinance (Cap 132)
No of prosecutions taken out by RSD staff for
unauthorized occupation of pavements for the past three years Year 1989 Year 1989 1990 1991 Total
Section 4A of Summary 1 278 Section 4A of Summary 1 278 1 662 1 388 4 328
Offences Ordinance (Cap 228)
Section 22(1)(a) of Public 1 941 Section 22(1)(a) of Public 1 941 2 060 3 384 7 385
Health and Municipal Services
Ordinance (Cap 132)
Section 83B(3) of Public 11 Section 83B(3) of Public 11 12 17 40
Health and Municipal Services
Ordinance (Cap 132)
Central monetary authority
9. MR DAVID LI asked: Will the Government inform this Council whether consideration 9. MR DAVID LI asked: Will the Government inform this Council whether consideration is being given to establishing a Central Monetary Authority, and if so, what is the projected schedule for its implementation?
SECRETARY FOR MONETARY AFFAIRS: Mr Deputy President, it is the Government's
responsibility to ensure that the monetary system of Hong Kong is sufficiently robust to meet future challenges, and that the institutional framework, mechanism and the resources available for monetary management in Hong Kong are adequate.
Before making any significant changes to our monetary system we have always consulted extensively with interested parties at an appropriate time and taken careful account of their views. This will continue to be the case. I do not, however, believe that it would be in the public interest to comment on what may, or may not, be contemplated in respect of any further changes to our monetary system.
Operational relations between Hong Kong and Chinese authorities
10. MR DAVID LI asked: Will the Government inform this Council what steps it has t 10. MR DAVID LI asked: Will the Government inform this Council what steps it has taken, or is planning to take, to expand the operational relations between its departments and the corresponding departments of the Government of the People's Republic of China?
CHIEF SECRETARY: Mr Deputy President, the Hong Kong Government believes that it is important for government departments to increase their familiarity with their counterparts on the mainland. We believe it is best for the development of actual working contacts to proceed in a natural fashion, as operational needs dictate. Areas in which these have expanded recently include cross border policing (for example, against smuggling), anti-corruption work, immigration and customs matters. In all of these areas the respective Hong Kong Government departments and services are in regular contact with their counterparts over the border.
Recent years have seen an increase in the amount of contacts between Hong Kong Recent years have seen an increase in the amount of contacts between Hong Kong Government departments and their mainland counterparts, both in the Central People's Government in Peking, and in provincial governments, notably Guangdong. In 1991, 152 delegations from Hong Kong travelled to China. Some of these were for the purpose of familiarization, but the majority were working visits. Likewise, 91 delegations came to Hong Kong from the mainland. This trend of increased contacts is encouraged and promoted by the Hong Kong Government, and is continuing. So far in 1992 over 60 delegations from Hong Kong have travelled to the mainland.
Expenditure on road construction and maintenance works
11. MR PETER WONG asked: Will the Administration inform this Council of the respe 11. MR PETER WONG asked: Will the Administration inform this Council of the respective expenditure on road construction and maintenance work in Hong Kong during the past three years and how it compares with that of our neighbouring countries, for example, Singapore?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT: Mr Deputy President, in the three-year period from 1989 to 1991, government expenditure on road construction and maintenance was as follows:
Construction Maintenance Construction Maintenance
($M) ($M) ($M) ($M)
1989 3,837 1989 3,837 413
1990 3,255 1990 3,255 486
1991 2,580 1991 2,580 546
The higher expenditure on road construction in 1989 and 1990 was due to work on several major projects, including the Kwun Tung Bypass, Shing Mun Tunnels and Tseung Kwan O Tunnel during that period.
Over the three-year period, total annual expenditure on road construction averaged 0.57% of GDP. Little direct information is available on comparable expenditure on road building in neighbouring countries. However, some comparison is possible with Singapore where on average expenditure on new roads amounted to about 0.35% of GDP during the same three-year period. In the period 1988 to 1990, average expenditure on new roads in Hong Kong was about $3,200 million per annum, compared with about $800 million per annum for Singapore.
Triad activity in new estate decoration business
12. MR WONG WAI-YIN asked: With regard to t 12. MR WONG WAI-YIN asked: With regard to t MR WONG WAI-YIN asked: With regard to the harassment of tenants of newly comp he harassment of tenants of newly completed public housing estates by triads while their flats are under decoration, will the Government inform this Council of the following:
(a) the number of cases reported to the police in each of the past three years; (a) the number of cases reported to the police in each of the past three years; of these, the number of prosecutions by the police and the number of convictions;
(b) whether any cases have been reported to the police regarding tenants of the (b) whether any cases have been reported to the police regarding tenants of the recently completed Tin Yiu Estate, Phase I in Tin Shui Wai being harassed while their flats are under decoration; if so, what the figures are; of these, the number of prosecutions and the number of convictions; and
(c) what preventive measures the police will adopt to tackle the problem? (c) what preventive measures the police will adopt to tackle the problem?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, harassment can occur in a number of different ways and may involve a variety of criminal offences not only during the decoration period but at other times. Statistics in relation to selected triad related crimes against tenants of newly completed public housing estates for the past three years are as follows:
1989 1990 1989 1990 1991
Offence A Offence A B C A B C A B C
Wounding and - Wounding and -- - 5(3) 3 0 2(1) 1* 0
serious
assault
Criminal - Criminal - - - - - - - - -
damage
Arson - Arson - - - - - - - - -
Blackmail - Blackmail - - - 4(3) 3 0 6(6) 6* 4
and intimidation
Unlawful 3(3) Unlawful 3(3) 2 2 1(0) 0 0 4(4) 4* 2
society offences
Total 3(3) Total 3(3) 2 2 10(6) 6 0 12(11) 11* 6
A: Reported (Detected) B: Prosecuted C: Convicted
The figures in ( ) denote the number of detected cases. For the year 1991, the
figures with * denote cases for which prosecution has been brought and some of which are still under trial at present.
Before Tin Yiu Estate was occupied, the Housing Department liaised closely with the police who strengthened their presence in the estate to counter triad and criminal activities. Since occupation in April 1992, the Housing Department has received two complaints of nuisance caused by unauthorized decorators and one alleging assault. All these have been referred to the police for investigation; no prosecutions have yet resulted.
The police are taking a number of preventive measures to tackle the problem. These include undercover operations with officers posing as tenants and/or decorators, and publicity through announcements on television to encourage tenants who receive threats to report to the police.
The approved decoration contractor (ADC) system is another measure to combat criminal activities related to decoration works in new estates. Under this system, the Housing Authority maintains an approved list of decoration contractors and only those contractors registered on the list are allowed to carry out decoration works in newly completed rental estates. At present, there are 87 such approved decoration contractors. The Housing Department monitors the system closely in respect of price, workmanship as well as background and conduct of the approved decoration contractors.
Foreign law firms
13. MR MARTIN BARROW asked: Will the Government inform this Council of the present 13. MR MARTIN BARROW asked: Will the Government inform this Council of the present progress of its plan to open up the legal profession to allow foreign law firms to provide expanded services in Hong Kong and to recruit local lawyers to advise on Hong Kong laws?
ATTORNEY GENERAL: Mr Deputy President, since 1971 Hong Kong has permitted foreign law firms to operate in the territory to advise on foreign law. There is an informal procedure under which the Law Society issues administrative guidelines specifying the terms on which these firms are permitted to practise in Hong Kong. The informal procedure is not satisfactory to the Law Society because these firms are not subject to their rules regulating professional conduct, ethics and discipline. Foreign law
firms are also dissatisfied because there are no statutory criteria that set out the conditions for establishing and for the regulation of their practices here.
Proposals for a regulatory framework were first mooted by the Government in 1988 and were the subject of a government consultative document in early 1989. In response to the Government's proposals, the Law Society produced in October 1991 two reports containing, amongst others, a number of recommendations for the regulation of foreign law firms. If these recommendations were implemented, a foreign law firm would have to register with the Law Society and could enter into an association with a local law firm. The association could share fees, premises, resources and personnel, but the ratio of foreign lawyers to local lawyers in the association could not exceed 1:1. A registered foreign law firm which had practised in Hong Kong for three years would be able to establish a Hong Kong practice and practise Hong Kong law, provided that all persons who were to practise Hong Kong law were qualified Hong Kong
solicitors.
The Law Society's recommendations received the Governor in Council's approval The Law Society's recommendations received the Governor in Council's approval in principle in January 1992. It is proposed that they be implemented by amendments to the Legal Practitioners Ordinance and by subsidiary legislation. Preparation of the relevant legislation is in progress. It is expected that a Bill will be introduced into this Council in the latter half of the 1992-93 Session.
Seaworthiness of vessels
14. DR HUANG CHEN-YA asked: Will the Government inform this Council: 14. DR HUANG CHEN-YA asked: Will the Government inform this Council:
(a) what mechanism is in place for the Marine Department (a) what mechanism is in place for the Marine Department what mechanism is in place for the Marine Department to monitor Hong Kong to monitor Hong Kong registered vessels for corrosion and stress which may affect the seaworthiness of the vessels;
(b) how many such vessels have been found to have significant corrosion and s (b) how many such vessels have been found to have significant corrosion and stress problems in the past three years; and
(c) how many of (c) how many of how many of the cases in (b) above were due to damage caused by the cargo the cases in (b) above were due to damage caused by the cargo loading mechanism in local terminals?
SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES: Mr Deputy President,
(a) The seaworthiness of Hong Kong vessels, including their corrosion and stress (a) The seaworthiness of Hong Kong vessels, including their corrosion and stress conditions, is monitored through the following means:
(i) a vessel needs to pass an initial survey before it can be registered in Hong K (i) a vessel needs to pass an initial survey before it can be registered in Hong Kong. Thereafter, the ship must be surveyed annually. These surveys may be conducted by Marine Department surveyors of ships in accordance with international safety standards or by authorized international classification societies. In the latter case the Marine Department conducts audit inspections to ensure strict compliance with the required standards. In any event the Marine Department conducts a thorough survey of each registered vessel every five years;
(ii) the Marine Department will be notified if any Hong Kong registered ship is (ii) the Marine Department will be notified if any Hong Kong registered ship is found by any maritime administration that practises "port state control" to be deficient in meeting international standards; and
(iii) following the loss of a number of bulk carriers worldwide, the International (iii) following the loss of a number of bulk carriers worldwide, the International Maritime Organization and the International Association of Classification Societies have developed new survey and maintenance requirements for such ships. These standards have been applied to Hong Kong registered ships since April 1992.
(b) There has only been one reported case of a Hong Kong registered ship suffering (b) There has only been one reported case of a Hong Kong registered ship suffering from significant corrosion and stress problems in the past three years.
(c) No connection has been identified between the case referred to in (b) above and connection has been identified between the case referred to in (b) above and the cargo loading mechanism at any local terminal.
Government surpluses
15. MR TAM YIU-CHUNG asked: Will the Government inform this Council: 15. MR TAM YIU-CHUNG asked: Will the Government inform this Council:
(a) of the reasons for the substa (a) of the reasons for the substa of the reasons for the substantial discrepancies between the original ntial discrepancies between the original forecast and actual figures for surpluses in the past few years' estimates of revenue and expenditure; and
(b) whether any measures would be taken to ensure that more accurate estimates (b) whether any measures would be taken to ensure that more accurate estimates on the Government's revenue and surplus would be presented in future Budget exercises?
FINANCIAL SECRETARY: Mr Deputy President, in response to Mr TAM, I would like to deal separately with recurrent and capital accounts, to which very different considerations apply in preparing our estimates.
First, recurrent account. Recurrent expenditure is relatively easy to predict, and the variation in 1991-92 between our actual operating expenditure and the revised estimate was less than 1%.
Estimates of revenue, however, involve judgements about the state of the Estimates of revenue, however, involve judgements about the state of the economies of our major trading partners, as well as business confidence, investment, interest rate movements and inflation within our own economy. Applying economic forecasts to revenue projections based on past trends clearly involves a significant degree of subjective judgement.
Against this background, our estimates system has worked well in recent years. Since 1988-89, the amount of revenue actually received in a particular year has varied between 0.5% below the revised estimate (in 1990-91) to about 2.5% above it (in 1991-92).
Most of the variations in respect of the last financial year was due to certain specific factors. A resurgence in the stock market and a greatly increased level of stamping of property documents in March 1991, for example, pushed stamp duty receipts up by about $700 million. This could not reasonably have been anticipated. Similarly, the increase in revenue received from profits tax over the revised estimate, though small in percentage terms, amounted to some $400 million, the larger part of which arose from an unanticipated decrease in the number of claims for tax hold over. The variation between the revised estimates and actual revenue received for other internal revenue heads and subheads was minimal.
Our relatively good record in estimating both recurrent expenditure and recurrent revenue is, of course, no cause for complacency. Clearly accuracy is desirable in a situation where only a small percentage variation can be equivalent to a significent sum in dollar terms. We will be exploring whether there are ways to improve further both the production and presentation of our estimates in the lead-up to the next Budget.
But we must bear in mind that no system can predict all changes, local and international, which may have a sudden effect on the economy and, in case of doubt,
we should err on the side of prudence in estimating the amount of revenue we have available.
We face a different and somewhat more serious problem with respect to capital We face a different and somewhat more serious problem with respect to capital expenditure.
Looking at the performance of the Capital Works Reserve Fund over the past five years, the difference between our original estimates and the actual expenditure averaged at something over 6% up to 1989-90, but increased to about 30% in 1990- 91 and 1991-92.
The largest elements in this underspending in the last two financial years occurred under Head 701 Land Acquisition and Head 702 Port and Airport Development. In the case of land acquisition, underspending was mainly due to prolonged arbitration on contested cases and the failure of landowners to come forward to collect compensation. Uncertainty over the future of the Airport Core Programme also contributed to underspending, as contracts and tenders were held up until the signing of the Memorandum of Understanding on 30 June 1991. This was, of course, a major breakthrough, but time was still required to mobilize resources and obtain the necessary approvals from Finance Committee before the projects concerned could go forward at full speed.
I am confident that our PADS-related estimates will be improved in 1992-93. Projects within the Airport Core Programme are now progressing steadily and a series of port development projects are coming on stream. As for Head 701, factors outside the Government's control will always make it difficult to predict accurately each year's expenditure on land acquisition. Prolonged discussion with a major clearee or arbitration by the Lands Tribunal can, for example, result in slippage of hundreds of millions of dollars in compensation payment.
As with our estimates of recurrent account, we nevertheless recognize the need for improvement. The Secretary for Works and the Secretary for the Treasury are looking at ways to enable early identification of possible deviations from the estimates. This would enable us to direct sums likely to remain unspent in a financial year to other projects. The Directors of the Works group of Departments have been asked to review their departments' manpower resources and availability of sites more carefully. We are also considering requiring quarterly breakdowns of expenditure from the Works group of Departments so that actual spending patterns can
be more closely monitored, and reviewing gazetting procedures to improve the accuracy of the estimated start dates of new projects.
Clearance of silt and refuse in squatter areas
16. MR FRED LI: Heavy rainstorms a month ago had caused blockage of drains in sev 16. MR FRED LI: Heavy rainstorms a month ago had caused blockage of drains in several squatter areas which remained uncleared for days. Will the Government inform this Council which department is responsible for the clearance of silt and refuse in squatter areas and whether there is any established policy to deal with such clearance after natural disasters?
SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS: Mr Deputy President, the Drainage Services Department is responsible for the clearance of silt from properly built drains in squatter areas. The clearance of drains which have been constructed by squatters themselves should normally be undertaken by them in much the same way as drains within private property are dealt with by their owners. However, in
emergencies, the Drainage Services Department will clear silt from drains in squatter areas if necessary.
The Urban Services Department and Regional Services Department are responsible The Urban Services Department and Regional Services Department are responsible for removing refuse in the urban area and the New Territories respectively. Clean up operations are undertaken by the two departments jointly with others such as the Highways Department and Drainage Services Department as soon after natural disasters as conditions permit. These operations can include the removal of silt and refuse from squatter areas and drains therein.
In addition, in the event of natural disasters, the district offices of the City and New Territories Administration co-ordinate emergency relief work by the departments concerned, including the urgent reinstatement of disrupted services.
Passenger safety on rail platforms
17. MR CHEUNG MAN-KWONG asked: With regard to the incidents involving passenger 17. MR CHEUNG MAN-KWONG asked: With regard to the incidents involving passenger MR CHEUNG MAN-KWONG asked: With regard to the incidents involving passengers of the Light Rail Transit, Kowloon-Canton Railway and Mass Transit Railway falling from the platforms onto the tracks, will the Government inform this Council of the following:
(a) the respective numbers of cases involving passengers of each of the (a) the respective numbers of cases involving passengers of each of the above-mentioned railway systems falling off the platforms accidentally, intentionally or upon being shoved by others over the five years; and
(b) whether the Administration will require operators of those railway systems (b) whether the Administration will require operators of those railway systems to install more effective safety facilities on the platforms to prevent passengers from falling onto the tracks?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT: Mr Deputy President,
(a) The Appendix gives a breakdown of incidents involving passengers of the L (a) The Appendix gives a breakdown of incidents involving passengers of the Light Rail Transit (LRT), the Kowloon-Canton Railway (KCR) and the Mass Transit Railway (MTR) falling from platforms in the past five years. The average number of accidents per million passengers carried by the LRT, KCR and MTR was 0.068, 0.014 and 0.039 respectively.
(b) The two railway corporations are (b) The two railway corporations are The two railway corporations are required by their respective Ordinances to required by their respective Ordinances to ensure passenger safety. In addition, the Government appoints a Chief Inspecting Officer of Railways to monitor and advise on all safety issues.
Both corporations are fully aware of the need to ensure platform safety. Both corporations are fully aware of the need to ensure platform safety. Measures to warn passengers to keep off the tracks include marking yellow lines along platform edges, sending constant reminders through the public address system and introducing platform queuing schemes. Platform assistants are deployed to assist boarding and alighting and to ensure passenger safety.
More specifically, as regards the LRT, apart from the standard yellow lines, white lines have been painted on the edge of curved platforms to alert passengers of gaps. Safety campaigns such as community briefings, school talks and exhibitions are held regularly. Safety messages are printed on posters and pamphlets to educate the
public. As regards the KCR, $344 million will be spent to provide additional platform entrances at the Tai Wai, Kowloon Tong and Kowloon Stations over the next four years to spread passengers more evenly along the platforms. The signalling system is also being upgraded to increase train frequency and thus reduce overcrowding.
As regards the MTR, pressure mats are being installed which will set off audible As regards the MTR, pressure mats are being installed which will set off audible
and visual alarms in case of anyone descending to the tracks. A passenger behaviour campaign will be launched this August to educate passengers on railway safety with emphasis on platform safety.
Appendix
Incidents of Incidents of No. of accidents/ No. of accidents/
Accidental being shoved Accidental being shoved being shoved million passengers million passengers
Suicides falls Suicides falls by others by others by others carried annually carried annually
(I) LRT
1988* 0 1988* 0 1 0 0.062
1989 0 4 0 0.064
1990 0 5 0 0.068
1991 0 6 0 0.073
-------
Overall Average 0.068 Overall Average 0.068
(*The LRT was commissioned in 1988.)
(II) KCR
1987 1 1 1 0.022
1988 1 1 0 0.013
1989 2 2 0 0.023
1990 2 0 0 0.011
1991 1 0 0 0.005
-------
Overall Average 0.014 Overall Average 0.014
(III) MTR
1987 16 1987 16 12 1 0.047
1988 10 1988 10 21 0 0.049
1989 13 1989 13 11 0 0.035
1990 15 1990 15 13 0 0.039
1991 7 1991 12 0 0.026
-------
Overall Average 0.039 Overall Average 0.039
(Note: The accidental falls were mainly caused by dizziness, fainting, slipping and (Note: The accidental falls were mainly caused by dizziness, fainting, slipping and carelessness.)
Medical certificates issued by unregistrable medical practitioners
18. MR TAM YIU-CHUNG asked: Unreg 18. MR TAM YIU-CHUNG asked: Unreg MR TAM YIU-CHUNG asked: Unregistrable medical practitioners are legally istrable medical practitioners are legally permitted to practise medicine in exempted clinics organized by local organizations and frequently issue medical certificates in the course of their duties. Will the Government inform this Council whether the medical certificates issued by these unregistrable medical practitioners are accepted for the purpose of granting sick leave to civil servants?
SECRETARY FOR THE CIVIL SERVICE: Mr Deputy President, civil servants may be granted sick leave on the basis of certificates issued by private medical practitioners, including those issued by unregistrable practitioners working in exempted clinics.
Secondary VI admission procedure
19. MR TIK CHI-YUEN asked: In respect of a working party formed by the Education 19. MR TIK CHI-YUEN asked: In respect of a working party formed by the Education Department to review the implementation of the "Secondary VI Admission Procedure" which has been put into effect for a year and the revised admission guidelines distributed to schools in early May this year, will the Government inform this Council of the following:
(a) the number of complaints received by the Education Department concerning the (a) the number of complaints received by the Education Department concerning the implementation of the "Secondary VI Admission Procedure" in the last year; and the major subjects of the complaints;
(b) the measures to be taken by the Education Dep (b) the measures to be taken by the Education Dep the measures to be taken by the Education Department this year to ensure that artment this year to ensure that secondary schools will comply with the revised admission guidelines; and how the
department will deal with those schools which fail to comply with such guidelines without justification;
(c) the measures to be taken by the (c) the measures to be taken by the the measures to be taken by the Education Department this year to improve Education Department this year to improve the actual implementation of student admission by stages and the promulgation of available school places by various schools in Stage II, so as to avoid confusion; and
(d) the ratio and the number of students adm (d) the ratio and the number of students adm the ratio and the number of students admitted by all secondary schools in itted by all secondary schools in Hong Kong in each of the five stages of admission last year?
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER: Mr Deputy President, the answers to Mr TIK's questions are as follows:
(a) A total of 23 allegations of malpractice were (a) A total of 23 allegations of malpractice were A total of 23 allegations of malpractice were received by the Education Depar received by the Education Department throughout the admission process. The major subjects of the complaints related to schools abusing the admission procedure, for example, by taking in students with high scores from other schools at Stage I or announcing admissions of students on Day 2 of Stage II rather than on Day 3 as stipulated. All the cases were investigated. Eight were substantiated and were found to be mainly due to schools' misinterpretation of the new procedure. All cases were rectified upon advice given by the Education Department.
(b) The Education Department will ensure that schools comply with the revised (b) The Education Department will ensure that schools comply with the revised admission guidelines mainly by close monitoring of the situation in individual schools. The measures which have been or will be introduced include:
(i) requiring schools to keep records of candidates accepted or rejected at all the (i) requiring schools to keep records of candidates accepted or rejected at all the stages of the admission procedure, and to submit a list of successful candidates to the District Education Officer for information at the end of each stage;
(ii) advising schools to accept students in accordance with the points system and (ii) advising schools to accept students in accordance with the points system and subject relevance. If, for any reason, this guideline is not followed, an explanation must be recorded for future reference;
(iii) advising schools not to admit students (iii) advising schools not to admit students advising schools not to admit students without an admission slip; and without an admission slip; and
(iv) staff of the Education Department visiting schools throughout the admission (iv) staff of the Education Department visiting schools throughout the admission process to ensure that schools comply with the admission procedure.
Schools which fail to comply with the guidelines without good reason will be asked Schools which fail to comply with the guidelines without good reason will be asked to re-consider the cases of any eligible candidates who have been adversely affected.
(c) The measures to improve the actual implementation are the same as those menti (c) The measures to improve the actual implementation are the same as those mentioned in paragraph (b) above. School Councils have been consulted on the measures to ensure acceptability and compliance.
At the end of Stage I, schools will be required to provide District Education Officers (DEOs) with the number of places still available. DEOs will then prepare a "List of Schools with S.6 vacancies" for display in their offices by 9 am on Day 2 (Stage II) for the information of students.
(d) The percentage and number of students admitted at the end of each stage in 1991 (d) The percentage and number of students admitted at the end of each stage in 1991 were:
Stage % Stage % Number
I 73.6 I 73.6 14 274
II (not available as schools II (not available as schools
were not required to were not required to
report at the end of Stage II)
III 98 III 98 19 006
IV 99.9 IV 99.9 19 376
V 100 19 400
Organophosphate insecticide
20. DR HUANG CHEN-YA asked: In view of some recent overseas reports of neurotoxicity 20. DR HUANG CHEN-YA asked: In view of some recent overseas reports of neurotoxicity due to the use of an organophosphate insecticide called "CHLORPYRIFOS", which was
previously regarded as a safe chemical, will the Government inform this Council: (a) whether the insecticide "CHLORPYRIFOS" is currently in use in Hong Kong; (a) whether the insecticide "CHLORPYRIFOS" is currently in use in Hong Kong;
(b) what other kinds of organophosphate insecticides are (b) what other kinds of organophosphate insecticides are what other kinds of organophosphate insecticides are currently available in currently available in Hong Kong;
(c) whether there are any regulations controlling the use of these insecticides (c) whether there are any regulations controlling the use of these insecticides and, if so, what they are;
(d) what surveillance mechanism is in place for detection of toxicity arising (d) what surveillance mechanism is in place for detection of toxicity arising from use of the insecticides; and
(e) what specific actions the Government will take to safeguard against toxicity (e) what specific actions the Government will take to safeguard against toxicity due to their use ?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr Deputy President,
(a) The insecticide "CHLORPYRIFOS" is currently registered for local distribution (a) The insecticide "CHLORPYRIFOS" is currently registered for local distribution and is available in Hong Kong. It can be used for controlling pests in certain vegetable crops and as domestic cockroach bait. However, it is not in common use due to its limited application and the availability of other synthetic pyrethroid formulations.
(b) At pres (b) At pres At present, there are 31 organophosphate compounds registered as pesticides u ent, there are 31 organophosphate compounds registered as pesticides under the Pesticides Ordinance (Cap 133). Of these, only 12 are readily available in the local market.
(c) All insecticides are controlled under the Pesticides Ordinance (Cap 133), whic (c) All insecticides are controlled under the Pesticides Ordinance (Cap 133), whic All insecticides are controlled under the Pesticides Ordinance (Cap 133), which aims at protecting the public from hazards arising from the use of such products. In this context, the Ordinance requires a pesticide to be registered before it can be imported or distributed here. Only pesticides considered safe can be registered for local use. They are also required to be properly packed and labelled. Persons dealing in pesticides must also be licensed by the Director of Agriculture and
Fisheries.
(d) Under the Pesticides Ordinance, staff of the Agriculture and Fisheries Depart (d) Under the Pesticides Ordinance, staff of the Agriculture and Fisheries Department
conduct regular random checks at retail outlets to ensure that pesticides are properly packed and labelled. Samples of pesticides are taken from the local market for chemical analysis to check if any unregistered pesticide is being offered for sale.
(e) Farmers are the major users of pesticides. The Agriculture and Fisheries armers are the major users of pesticides. The Agriculture and Fisheries Department provides farmers with detailed advisory leaflets and also holds periodic technical seminars and discussion meetings with them. These give information on safe use of pesticides and effective pest control. Field staff of the Department also counsel and remind farmers on the safe and proper use of pesticides in their regular contacts with them.
In addition, the Agriculture and Fisheries Department maintains a close watch on the toxicity status of various pesticides. Should a registered pesticide be found or reported to be dangerous, or causing health hazards, the Director of Agriculture and Fisheries can order the cancellation of the registration of the pesticide in question. Since 1983, 15 pesticides have been deregistered on health hazard or
environmental grounds.
Motions
CRIMINAL PROCEDURE ORDINANCE
THE CHIEF SECRETARY moved the following motion:
"That the Legal Aid in Criminal Cases (Amendment) Rules 1992, made by the Chief Justice on 19 May 1992, be approved."
He said: Mr Deputy President, I move the motion standing in my name on the Order Paper.
Section 9A of the Criminal Procedure Ordinance provides that the Chief Justice may make the Legal Aid in Criminal Cases Rules, subject to this Council's approval by resolution.
The main objective of the amendments to the Rules is to give effect to a new means test, called the "financial capacity" approach, in criminal legal aid cases. The introduction of the "financial capacity" approach in the Legal Aid (Amendment) Bill was approved by this Council on 1 May 1991.
Under the existing arrangements, an applicant for legal aid is required to satisfy the financial limits on both disposable monthly income and disposable capital. This approach disadvantages applicants whose financial resources consist mainly of either income or capital. Moreover, the financial limits which were last revised in 1986 lag behind increases in earnings over the years and need to be updated.
The "financial capacity" approach assesses an applicant's means on the basis of The "financial capacity" approach assesses an applicant's means on the basis of his aggregate "financial resources", including disposable annual income and disposable capital. More applicants will become financially eligible for legal aid under this approach.
The implementation of the new means test was delayed because the resources originally reserved for the "financial capacity" approach were utilized, with Finance Committee's approval, to expand the Duty Lawyer Scheme in Magistrates' Courts. That was necessary to enable the Government to discharge its obligation under Article 11(2)(d) of the Bill of Rights Ordinance, which requires that legal representation be provided to persons charged in criminal cases who cannot afford it and where the interests of justice so require.
We now aim to implement the "financial capacity" approach with effect from 1 July 1992. To this end, it is necessary to amend the subsidiary regulations applying to civil cases and the rules made by the Chief Justice applying to criminal cases. The amendments to the Legal Aid in Criminal Cases Rules made by the Chief Justice are now submitted to this Council for approval.
The proposed amendments will bring about substantial improvements to the existing criminal legal aid system and are worthy of the support of this Council.
Mr Deputy President, I beg to move.
Question on the motion proposed, put and agreed to.
INTERPRETATION AND GENERAL CLAUSES ORDINANCE
THE ATTORNEY GENERAL moved the following motion:
"That the Interpretation and General Clauses (Chinese Version of Short Titles) Notice, to be made by the Governor in Council, be approved."
He said: Mr Deputy President, I move the first resolution of the two standing in my name on the Order Paper. They are connected and I will speak to both on this motion.
Mr Deputy President, this is a significant moment in the history of legislation in Hong Kong. If these motions are passed by this Council, we may expect to see, in the near future, the first authentic Chinese text of an Ordinance in our statute book prepared under the provision of section 4B of the Official Languages Ordinance, and have the advantage of a complete list of short titles of our Ordinances in Chinese. I take a particular personal pleasure in having the opportunity, by coincidence, to move these resolutions. As Law Draftsman, I have a special interest in, although making no useful contribution to, this work, and I am delighted for all those who have toiled so hard and so long that they are now to see some concrete results of their labours. They are entitled to feel proud that they have played such a valuable part towards the goal of making Hong Kong's written laws more accessible to the vast majority of our population.
It does not require any argument to convince this Council that the task of It does not require any argument to convince this Council that the task of preparing an authentic Chinese text of an existing piece of legislation is an extremely difficult one and this is especially so with legislation enacted many years ago in style and wording quite different from that enacted today. The opportunity of adjusting the language of the English and Chinese versions of a new law does not exist here. Those responsible for the achievements in this area so far have wrought minor miracles, and I say this boldly in spite of the criticisms of some who should know better.
I extend my congratulations to Members of the ad hoc group headed by Mr Andrew WONG for having finalized this important and difficult piece of work.
I would also like to take this opportunity to pay tribute to Dr Daniel TSE and I would also like to take this opportunity to pay tribute to Dr Daniel TSE and his colleagues on the Bilingual Laws Advisory Committee (BLAC). We are privileged to have their support and dedication on this work. Fifty Ordinances comprising some 1 400 pages of legislation have already been examined by this Committee. Chapter 1, the Interpretation and General Clauses Ordinance, was one of the most difficult to translate in view of its technical and conceptual nature. The BLAC now operates
with two separate sub-committees. A third sub-committee will be formed later this year in order to further accelerate its progress. I congratulate members of the Committee for their skilful work.
The 50 Ordinances so far examined by the BLAC relate mainly to legislation that is likely to be of use to large sections of the public and which is most frequently used in the lower courts. These will in due course be referred to this Council for approval. In addition to the Ordinances already examined by the BLAC, members of my staff in the Law Drafting Division are hard at work on the Chinese texts of another 120 Ordinances comprising some 4 100 pages. These are in various stages of completion.
I would like, publicly, to extend my personal thanks to the officers of my Division for their hard work, professionalism and dedication.
Mr Deputy President, in July last year, the Law Drafting Division started a Mr Deputy President, in July last year, the Law Drafting Division started a six-month pilot scheme for part-time law translation. Under this scheme, government Chinese Language Officers were invited to accept assignments for the translation of the less complex Ordinances outside their normal office hours. Their work is then vetted by the bilingual legislative counsel and Law Translation Officers in the Law Drafting Division. Work of a good standard at a reasonable speed has been produced. It has now been decided to continue with this project on a long-term basis and for that purpose, about 70 Chinese Language Officers have been identified as suitable to do the work. This has added great impetus to the law translation programme. It is believed that with this additional help, an annual production of some 4 500 pages of draft Chinese texts can be achieved. The target is to have final Chinese drafts of all existing legislation examined by the BLAC by the end of 1995.
Mr Deputy President, turning directly to the resolution presently before the Mr Deputy President, turning directly to the resolution presently before the Council, I say that its subject matter may not appear to be of great importance. But in fact short titles of Ordinances are useful to the lawyers.
They are often referred to in other pieces of legislation and they are also frequently cited in court. With the enactment of bilingual legislation, and to facilitate citation, it is essential that Hong Kong has a complete list of such short titles in the Chinese language.
Mr Deputy President, it would not be right for me to end this speech without a Mr Deputy President, it would not be right for me to end this speech without a special mention of Mr Eric AU who died on 30 March this year. Eric was one of my deputies, the Principal Crown Counsel in charge of the bilingual laws project. It was very
much his child, which he was carefully nurturing to maturity. Sadly he will not see it fully grown, but it will stand as a proud monument to his memory and achievement.
Mr Deputy President, I move that the draft "Interpretation and General Clauses (Chinese Version of Short Titles) Notice", proposed to be made by the Governor in Council, be approved.
Question on the motion proposed.
MR ANDREW WONG (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, I agree very much with the Attorney General who said just now that the two resolutions before us today are of utmost importance and historical significance as they represent another big step forward in our bilingual law drafting exercise. We will be approving today the authentic Chinese text of the Interpretation and General Clauses Ordinance (Cap. 1) and the complete list of Chinese short titles of all the Ordinances. From now on, more and more authentic Chinese texts of existing laws will be submitted to this Council for approval, after which these Chinese versions will become binding laws and can be used in courts. What is of significance is that these laws are written in the language used by the great majority of the people in Hong Kong, and will be of great use in furthering the public's understanding of the laws of Hong Kong.
The Attorney General has just reported the progress of the bilingual law draf The Attorney General has just reported the progress of the bilingual law drafting exercise, and I would like to take this opportunity to give a brief introduction to the work undertaken by this Council in this regard. According to the relevant provision of the Official Languages Ordinance (Cap. 5), the Governor in Council shall consult the Bilingual Laws Advisory Committee (BLAC) before making an order for declaring the authentic Chinese text of a particular Ordinance, and the draft order, which specifies the relevant translation to be the authentic Chinese text, shall be laid before this Council for approval before it can be notified as an order in the gazette to the effect that the translation specified shall become the authentic Chinese text. To comply with this provision and to enable Members to actively take part in the examination of such Chinese texts, it has been decided to adopt a simple examination procedure during an In-House meeting of this Council, whereby the translation of the laws approved by BLAC will be forwarded, through the arrangement of the Legal Department, to the ad hoc group on authentic Chinese text of laws set up by this Council for examination. After being approved by the In-House meeting of this Council, the translation will be returned to the Legal Department for making
the relevant draft order which will be laid before and approved by resolution of this Council. This examination process having completed, a draft notice to the effect that Members of this Council confirm, after examination, the translation to be the authentic Chinese text will be submitted to this Council together with the relevant Ordinance for approval. This way, the relevant resolution will not stall even if Members should take issue with the wording of the resolution when it is moved before this Council. So far, this examination procedure has worked smoothly.
The ad hoc group is aware that the Chinese texts of laws, before being submitted to it, have undergone several phases of vetting and scrutiny by the BLAC, and that to the group the quality of the Chinese texts is beyond question. But I have to emphasize here that we in the ad hoc group will not perfunctorily discharge our duties because of our trust in the work of the BLAC. When examining the Chinese texts, we will be just as meticulous. To take the example of the examination of the
Interpretation and General Clauses Ordinance and the complete list of Chinese short titles of all our Ordinances, the ad hoc group altogether held seven meetings, and had numerous discussions with the Legal Department on problems concerning the translation of some provisions. The group also made suggestions in pursuit of which many amendments were eventually agreed upon.
Finally, Mr Deputy President, I should like to say that the ad hoc group regrets the premature death of Mr Eric AU. But the group is confident that the relevant authority, the BLAC and the group itself will continue with their effort to complete as soon as possible the vetting of the Chinese versions of the existing laws. I hope that all the laws in Hong Kong will have both an English and Chinese version in the near future.
Mr Deputy President, with these remarks, I support the present motion and the other one on authentic Chinese text under the Official Languages Ordinance to be moved later.
Question on the motion put and agreed to.
OFFICIAL LANGUAGES ORDINANCE
THE ATTORNEY GENERAL moved the following motion:
"That the Official Languages (Authentic Chinese Text) (Interpretation and General Clauses Ordinance) Order, to be made by the Governor in Council, be approved."
He said: Mr Deputy President, I move the second resolution standing in my name on the Order Paper, adopting the remarks I made earlier regarding the connected resolution.
Question on the motion proposed, put and agreed to.
PHARMACY AND POISONS ORDINANCE
THE SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE moved the following motion:
"That the Pharmacists (Disciplinary Procedure) (Amendment) Regulation 1992, made by the Pharmacy and Poisons Board on 21 May 1992, be approved."
She said: Mr Deputy President, I move the motion standing in my name on the Order Paper.
The Pharmacy and Poisons Ordinance provides that a Disciplinary Board appointed by the Pharmacy and Poisons Board may conduct disciplinary inquiries against pharmacists. Any party may, after the inquiry, obtain a verbatim record of the proceedings at a fee of 75 for each folio of 72 words. Set about two decades ago, this fee level is seriously out of step with the actual cost of the service and is thus contrary to the government policy of recovering the cost of services rendered. A recent costing exercise reveals that the actual cost of producing each folio is $73.
Under section 29 of the Pharmacy and Poisons Ordinance, the Pharmacy and Poisons Board, subject to the approval of this Council, may make regulations prescribing this fee. The Pharmacy and Poisons Board has agreed to amend the relevant regulation to recover the full cost of the service rendered. The approval of this Council is now sought.
This proposed revision is in line with that of similar fees concerning doctors, This proposed revision is in line with that of similar fees concerning doctors, dentists, midwives and nurses recently effected by amendment to other subsidiary legislation made by the Executive Council.
Mr Deputy President, I beg to move.
Question on the motion proposed, put and agreed to.
First Reading of Bills
INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY DEPARTMENT (CONSEQUENTIAL AMENDMENTS) BILL 1992 PARENT AND CHILD BILL
EMPLOYEES RETRAINING BILL
AIR POLLUTION CONTROL (AMENDMENT) BILL 1992
Bills read the First time and ordered to be set down for Second Reading pursuant to Standing Order 41(3).
Second Reading of Bills
INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY DEPARTMENT (CONSEQUENTIAL AMENDMENTS) BILL 1992
THE ATTORNEY GENERAL moved the Second Reading of: "A Bill to amend miscellaneous Ordinances consequent upon the establishment of the Intellectual Property Department."
He said: Mr Deputy President, I move that the Intellectual Property Department (Consequential Amendments) Bill 1992 be read a Second time.
The Intellectual Property Department came into being on 2 July 1990. It serves The Intellectual Property Department came into being on 2 July 1990. It serves as a focal point for the development of Hong Kong's intellectual property regime.
The purpose of this Bill is to place lawyers in the Department in the same position, in relation to certain rights and privileges under some Ordinances, as other lawyers in government service. The rights and privileges to which I refer are:
(i) the exemption from jury service; (i) the exemption from jury service;
(ii) the counting of service towards eligibility for the admission as a solicitor (ii) the counting of service towards eligibility for the admission as a solicitor and for judicial appointment; and
(iii) thirdly, the ability to take on trainee solicitors. (iii) thirdly, the ability to take on trainee solicitors.
The work performed by lawyers in the Department is similar to the intellectual property work formerly carried out by lawyers in the Registrar General's Department. These lawyers enjoyed the rights and privileges I have mentioned.
The Bill also classifies money handled by the Director of Intellectual Property as public money for the purposes of the jurisdiction of the Director of Audit.
Mr Deputy President, I move that the debate on this motion be now adjourned. Mr Deputy President, I move that the debate on this motion be now adjourned. Question on the adjournment proposed, put and agreed to.
PARENT AND CHILD BILL
THE ATTORNEY GENERAL moved the Second Reading of: "A Bill to reduce the legal disabilities associated with illegitimacy, to consolidate and amend certain aspects of the law relating to paternity, legitimacy and legitimation, to provide for the determination of parentage in cases where birth or pregnancy results from medical treatment services, to provide for the use of scientific tests in determining parentage in court proceedings, and for connected purposes."
He said: Mr Deputy President, I move that the Parent and Child Bill 1992 be read a Second time.
This Bill seeks to implement the recommendations contained in the Law Reform Commission's report on "Illegitimacy". That report, published in December last year, drew attention to the fact that the present law places an illegitimate child at a legal disadvantage in a number of ways and this disadvantage arises from the
circumstances of his birth; circumstances for which the child himself can clearly have no responsibility. Article 20(1) of the Hong Kong Bill of Rights Ordinance, 1991, provides that every child is entitled to protection as a minor, without any
discrimination as to his birth. Article 22 provides that all persons are entitled to the equal protection of the law without any discrimination on the ground of birth. It is clear that the existing law, in this area, is inconsistent with the Bill of Rights.
The illegitimate child is disadvantaged by the existing law in, for instance, The illegitimate child is disadvantaged by the existing law in, for instance, succession matters. Unlike a legitimate child, he cannot succeed to his father's estate on the father's death intestate. Where support is concerned, the range of maintenance orders available to the illegitimate child is more limited. He must apply to the court for these by way of a special procedure which does not apply to legitimate children. In custody proceedings, the child's welfare is normally the paramount consideration for the court but, where an illegitimate child is concerned, the court must take account of the mother's superior claim to custody rather than the child's welfare.
The aim of this Bill is to ensure that an illegitimate child will, so far as is practicable, be treated by the law in the same way as a legitimate child. The numbers of those affected by the present law may be small but it is clearly desirable that the present discriminatory aspects of the law should be rectified.
The Law Reform Commission found strong public support for this proposal. In The Law Reform Commission found strong public support for this proposal. In answer to any suggestion that the present law served to uphold moral standards and to support the institution of marriage, the Commission said this: "the law should protect the institution of marriage and that the family is the fundamental unit of society but did not believe that the present discrimination achieved very much in that regard". As the Commission argued, while a married relationship should in
principle be more stable than an unmarried one, and so provide a better environment for the child, that is not always the case. Many marriages are not stable and the Commission suggested that there was statistical evidence that a marriage entered into primarily for the purpose of ensuring that an expected child would not be born
illegitimate was especially at risk.
The principal provision of the Bill is set out in clause 3. The effect of this provision is that in all legislation (existing and future) and all future documents, words implying a family relationship such as "son" or "child" are to include illegitimate persons unless a contrary intention is shown. Thus it will remain open for a testator to exclude his illegitimate child by specifying in his will that he leaves his estate to his "legitimate children", but a bequest to "his children" would
include an illegitimate child.
Mr Deputy President, clauses 9 to 12 of the Bill refer to surrogacy and births brought about through artificial insemination or other scientific means. I am conscious that this is an area which raises sensitive and important questions of ethics and morality. I must stress, however, that this Bill is not concerned with whether or not surrogacy and scientifically assisted birth is desirable, nor with considering the controls, if any, which should be applied. This Bill deals only with making provision to identify the legal parents where such births take place, and to provide a legal mechanism for parties to a surrogacy to apply to the court for an order as to the child's parentage which reflects the reality of the surrogacy arrangement. The extent to which such arrangements should be allowed, or how they should be regulated, are questions which fall outside the ambit of this Bill and are currently under consideration by the Secretary for Health and Welfare as a separate exercise.
Mr Deputy President, I move that the debate on this motion be now adjourned. Question on the adjournment proposed, put and agreed to.
EMPLOYEES RETRAINING BILL
THE SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER moved the Second Reading of: "A Bill to establish the Employees Retraining Board as a body corporate, to establish the Employees Retraining Fund, to provide for the imposition of a levy payable by employers who employ imported employees, and to provide for the collection of the levy by the Director of Immigration from those employers in respect of those employees and the remittance of the levy to the Board for the purposes of the Fund, the defraying of the costs of providing retraining courses for local employees, the payment of retraining allowances by the Board from the Fund to those employees, and for incidental and connected matters."
He said: Mr Deputy President, I move that the Employees Retraining Bill 1992 be read a Second time.
At present training and retraining facilities are provided to local workers by At present training and retraining facilities are provided to local workers by the Vocational Training Council, the Clothing Industry Training Authority and the
Construction Industry Training Authority (the two CITAs) through their full-time or part-time courses, although these courses are not specifically or exclusively designed for in-service workers wishing to change employment. Some retraining is therefore currently being financed through the government subvention to the Vocational Training Council and levies contributed to the two CITAs by employers in the clothing and construction industries. There are of course other, mostly in house, retraining programmes provided by individual employers to meet specific needs. Notwithstanding existing provisions, we recognize that there is a need to provide retraining courses that are specifically and exclusively designed to assist those workers who are displaced as a result of the economic re-structuring process to find alternative employment. The setting up of a statutory retraining fund financed by a levy imposed on employers who import workers will channel additional resources to augment the provision of retraining for local workers.
The Bill before the Council seeks to create an Employees Retraining Fund and establish an Employees Retraining Board to administer the Fund.
Part II of the Bill establishes the Employees Retraining Board as a body corporate and sets out its composition, functions and procedures. The Board shall be a tripartite body consisting of representatives of employers, employees and the Government as well as experts in the field of vocational training or manpower planning. Apart from managing the Employees Retraining Fund, the Board shall be responsible for considering the provision of retraining courses designed for the benefit of local employees and determining the level of retraining allowance to be paid to those employees as trainees.
Part III establishes the Employees Retraining Fund and covers the financial arrangements relating to payments from the Board as well as accounting and auditing procedures.
Part IV deals with the imposition and payment of a retraining levy. Part V provides the machinery in respect of applications by trainees to attend retraining courses and claim the retraining allowance and includes a review procedure.
Clause 33 provides for transitional arrangements which ensure that the levy collected under the 1992 general labour importation scheme could be channelled directly to the statutory fund and that the funds advanced by the Government to finance the pilot retraining courses before the establishment of the Board could be recovered.
Mr Deputy President, the Government has lost no time in our efforts to augment the provision of retraining to local employees. As Members are aware, pending the establishment of a statutory Fund, a Provisional Retraining Fund Board was established in February this year to consider and plan suitable retraining courses, and an advance of $50 million has been made available by the Government, with the endorsement of the Finance Committee of this Council, for the purpose. I am pleased to inform Members that 10 new pilot retraining courses will commence early next month. Upon passage of the Bill into law, the Employees Retraining Board would have an estimated income of at least $120 million in the following 12 months. More retraining courses are expected to be organized as a result.
Mr Deputy President, I move that the debate on this motion be now adjourned. Question on the adjournment proposed, put and agreed to.
AIR POLLUTION CONTROL (AMENDMENT) BILL 1992
THE SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS moved the Second Reading of: "A Bill to amend the Air Pollution Control Ordinance."
He said: Mr Deputy President, I move that the Air Pollution Control (Amendment) Bill 1992 be read the Second time.
The Air Pollution Control Ordinance introduced in 1983 was designed to control air pollution from stationary sources like industrial chimneys and processes which were then the main cause for concern. Since then, the major sources and the types of air pollution which are of concern have become diversified, and experience has shown that some provisions of the Ordinance cannot meet the need for new controls effectively. Under the Ordinance some air pollution problems, such as asbestos, cannot be controlled. It is also time to provide for better enforcement under the Ordinance.
Twenty-three types of specified processes, which are processes having the
potential to cause serious air pollution, have been subject to licensing control since 1987. Exemption was provided for premises already in existence at that time. Probably because of their exemption, few owners of exempted premises have sought to upgrade their facilities. In the interests of our health, it is now proposed to provide by clause 15 for the removal of exemption for such premises. However, this will be done in phases and in full consultation with the industries affected.
It is also proposed that eight new processes identified in the Bill as being capable of contributing to serious air pollution should be included as specified processes in the First Schedule to the Ordinance.
Asbestos has long been known to be a substance which can cause serious health problems through inhalation and its use is under strict control in many countries. New sections contained in clause 32 will provide for the control of the emission of asbestos into the environment. The proposed controls require the owners of premises who intend to carry out any asbestos related work to appoint qualified registered consultants, contractors, supervisors and laboratories for the purpose. All
buildings accessible to the public or used for certain sensitive purposes would be surveyed for asbestos in phases, with the first phase covering schools and hospitals. The sale and import for use in Hong Kong of two hazardous types of asbestos, amosite and crocidolite, and products containing these two substances would be banned.
Clause 7 provides for a new section under which technical memoranda setting out standards and guidelines for the determination and abatement of air pollution can be issued. The Bill also provides an opportunity to improve the provisions relating to general control and the Appeal Board, and to revise the penalties under the
Ordinance to increase their deterrent effect and bring them in line with penalties under other environmental legislation.
Major industrial and trade associations, as well as the industries affected, have been consulted on the proposed controls. Their main concern is about the requirements which will be stipulated in the technical memoranda, the proposed removal of exemption for existing specified processes and the introduction of controls on new ones. I wish to emphasize that the Government's intention is to set out only current requirements in the technical memoranda to facilitate enforcement. I must also emphasize that the proposed controls on both existing and new specified processes would be implemented in phases following consultation with the industries involved.
Mr Deputy President, I move that the debate be adjourned.
Question on the adjournment proposed, put and agreed to.
CRIMES (AMENDMENT) (NO. 2) BILL 1991
Resumption of debate on Second Reading which was moved on 17 October 1991 Question on Second Reading proposed.
MR MARTIN LEE: Mr Deputy President, the Crimes (Amendment) (No.2) Bill 1991 seeks to modernize the criminal law provisions relating to forgery and counterfeiting. The ad hoc group set up to study the Bill was unanimously in support of the codification of the law but was deeply concerned about the apparently unintentional increases in maximum sentences for some forgery and counterfeiting offences, a point which had been raised in both the submissions from the Law Society of Hong Kong and Hong Kong Bar Association. The ad hoc group expressed reservations about the raising of the maximum sentence for many offences from three or seven years to 14 years. It noted that the maximum sentence in the United Kingdom for similar offences was 10 years. It considered that the increase in penalty was unacceptable unless the crimes
concerned were viewed more seriously now than before. It was concerned that the Courts might think that the legislature intended heavier sentences to the passed by the Courts. The Administration was asked to explain the rationale for the higher sentences, and its reply was that in light of the current sophistication in credit card forgery, an area of criminal activity where Hong Kong features as a major centre, it is necessary to have heavier sentences to discourage such activities. The ad hoc group was informed that serious cases would be tried in the District Court whereas less serious cases could be tried in Magistrates Court so that these offences would be subject to the limits of jurisdiction of these Courts of seven years and two years respectively.
In reply to the ad hoc group's request that thought be given to amending the Bill so as to ensure that no existing maximum sentences were increased merely as a consequence of "simplification", the Administration pointed out that the Bill was more than a mere simplification. The system of penalties was rationalized in simple fashion which was easy to understand. Broadly, 14 years' imprisonment was prescribed where there was an intent to use a false instrument or counterfeit currency, and three
years where there was no such intent.
At the suggestion of the ad hoc group, the Administration also consulted the draftsman of the Bill to see whether it would be possible to legislate for different sentences for different types of forged instruments. It was considered that this could only be achieved if the basic format of the Bill were to be sacrificed, and the original method of having different maximum penalties for different offences reintroduced, as the blameworthiness varies from one offence to another.
Another aspect of the Bill which the ad hoc group considered was the venue of trial. The ad hoc group noted that apart from the offences of reproducing Hong Kong currency notes (section 103(1)) and making, selling or distributing, or having custody of any imitation Hong Kong coins with the intent to sell or distribute (section 104(1)) which were triable in the Magistrates Court only, all the other offences set out in the Bill, for example, the proposed new section 71, were expressed to be indictable only. It considered that these latter offences should all be triable either "on indictment" or summarily. The Administration clarified that the Crown had the absolute power to decide upon the venue of the trial of all offences according to the view taken of the severity of these offences; so that the offences which appeared in the Bill as triable "on indictment" could also be dealt with summarily by virtue of section 92 of the Magistrates Ordinance, but the maximum sentence would then be limited to two years, being the maximum sentence which the Magistrates Courts could impose in a general case.
Having received the clarifications and explanations of the Administration, the ad hoc group is satisfied that the Bill can be supported.
Mr Deputy President, with these remarks, I support the Bill.
Question on the Second Reading of the Bill put and agreed to. Bill read the Second time.
Bill committed to a Committee of the whole Council pursuant to Standing Order 43(1). INSURANCE COMPANIES (AMENDMENT) BILL 1991
Resumption of debate on Second Reading which was moved on 13 November 1991 Question on Second Reading proposed.
DR PHILIP WONG: Mr Deputy President, it was at the Legislative Council In-House meeting held on 1 November 1991 that the Legislative Council ad hoc group to study the Insurance Companies (Amendment) Bill 1991 was formed. The ad hoc group was later charged with the responsibilities to examine also the Insurance Companies (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 1991 by the Legislative Council In-House on 29 November 1991.
Right from day one, the ad hoc group realizes that we have taken on an important job. On one side of the scales is the need to maintain the laissez-faire business environment of the private sector. On the other side of the scales is the need to vest the monitoring authority, in this case, the Insurance Authority, with the
necessary power to carry out his monitoring functions effectively. How this state of equilibrium can be maintained is a question that we kept on asking ourselves in the past six months.
We do not accept the allegation that any requests for additional powers by the Insurance Authority will definitely upset the balance. We feel that the Insurance Companies Ordinance has to be reviewed from time to time in the light of the actual experience gained in its operations. As a matter of fact, we note that a total of 12 major amendments have been made to the Ordinance since its enactment in 1983.
Since the publication in the Gazette of this Bill and the No. 2 Bill on 1 and 29 November 1991 respectively, the insurance industry has thrived with worries that the powers sought by these two Bills are draconian and excessive which, when used, would stifle insurers' activities. Perhaps it is time now to assure all those who were concerned that their worries have been taken care of. The ad hoc group, the Hong Kong Federation of Insurers and the Administration have worked closely together and consensus has finally been reached for the powers originally proposed in the Bills to be appropriately trimmed on the grounds for exercising these powers to be narrowed and more clearly defined.
Turning now to the Bill proper, I would like to report to honourable colleagues Turning now to the Bill proper, I would like to report to honourable colleagues that the main item of amendments that has been the subject of concern of the insurance industry is clause 5 of the Bill which proposes to amend section 26(3) of the Ordinance to empower the Insurance Authority to exercise any of his power under sections 28,
29, 30, 32, 33 and 35, in addition to his more limited powers under section 34, on the ground that he considers the exercise of such power to be desirable in the general interests of persons who are or may become policy holders of an insurer.
Before I proceed any further, I think it would be useful if I could briefly explain to honourable colleagues what the powers under sections 28, 29, 30 and 35 are:
(a) Section 28, under this section, the Insurance Authority may impose (a) Section 28, under this section, the Insurance Authority may impose restrictions on the way an insurer can make its investments.
(b) Section 29, under this section, the Insurance Authority may require an (b) Section 29, under this section, the Insurance Authority may require an insurer to maintain certain amount of its assets in Hong Kong.
(c) Section 30, under this section, the Insurance Authority, in con (c) Section 30, under this section, the Insurance Authority, in con Section 30, under this section, the Insurance Authority, in conjunction with junction with his exercise of his power under section 29, may also require the insurer to put the assets maintained in Hong Kong under the custody of a person approved by him.
(d) Section 35, under this section, the Insurance Authority may require an (d) Section 35, under this section, the Insurance Authority may require an insurer to take such action in respect of its affairs, business or property as he considers appropriate.
The insurance industry was concerned that given the nature of the powers in sections 28, 29, 30 and 35 and the wide scope of the ground of section 26(3), the Insurance Authority would be capable of interfering with the normal commercial decisions of an insurer. Business decisions such as determining the rate of premium and deciding where and how to invest are likely to be interfered with by the Insurance Authority for non-specific reasons under the new section 26(3).
The insurance industry therefore proposed that the powers of sections 28, 29, 30 and 35 should be removed from the scope of the ground of section 26(3).
In response to the insurance industry's proposal, the Administration has agreed In response to the insurance industry's proposal, the Administration has agreed to remove the powers of sections 28, 29 and 30 from the scope of the ground of section 26(3). As a result, the Insurance Authority will produce valuation rules/guidelines which will provide a basis for the valuation of assets of general business insurers and the liabilities of long term business insurers.
The Administration, however, maintained that section 35 should be retained as this would allow the Insurance Authority to exercise his interventionary powers in
a more active and responsive mode such that timely measures can be taken to address a problem before it reaches critical levels.
Nevertheless, to assure the insurance industry that the proposed combination of the ground of section 26(3) and the powers of section 35 would not be used by the Insurance Authority to regulate the normal commercial activities of an insurer, the Administration has agreed that there should be statutory provisions barring the
Insurance Authority from using the ground of section 26(3) to regulate any commercial decisions in respect of pricing and policy wordings. Mr Deputy President, I would further explain how this is achieved at the Committee stage when I will move amendments to clause 5 of the Bill.
Initially, the Hong Kong Federation of Insurers has also suggested that as a Initially, the Hong Kong Federation of Insurers has also suggested that as a safeguard against possible abusive use of section 26(3), the Insurance Authority should be required to obtain prior approval from the Secretary for Monetary Affairs before he could exercise the powers on the ground of section 26(3).
Having realized that the scope of clause 5 would be much reduced and more clearly defined, the Federation has later agreed that prior consultation with other authorities is no longer required.
We, however, hold the view that some checks and balances should be in place in We, however, hold the view that some checks and balances should be in place in view of the wide scope of the power in section 35. We therefore suggested that the Administration should publicly confirm during the Second Reading debate of the Bill in the Legislative Council that the requirements imposed by the Insurance Authority under section 35 which will later be amended to section 35(1) as a result of the Insurance Companies (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 1991 would be limited to matters of a lesser magnitude compared with those that may be imposed by virtue of the exercise of other specified powers conferred on the Insurance Authority by the Ordinance. We have been given to understand that in his speech this afternoon, the Secretary for Monetary Affairs will positively respond to our suggestion.
Mr Deputy President, with these remarks, I support the motion.
MR JAMES TO (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, the insurance industry is a very important industry. It affects public interest and is closely related to the daily life of the people. But the insurance industry is not selling us tangible commodities
but a service. The insurer undertakes to provide the policy holder with indemnity against unfortunate accidents or certain specified incidents. And it may take quite a long time, ranging from several years to several decades, before the indemnity would be paid. For this reason, effective monitoring over the insurance industry is very important. Just imagine what would happen if we fail to have a sound monitoring system: the insurance companies may abscond with the premiums collected from the public, or engage in speculative activities with the premiums and in case they fail, they either make their getaway or simply wait for a liquidation. Under the present monitoring system, the Insurance Authority is in a very passive position who takes action only after the problem of an insurance company has been brought to light.
This Bill gives more suitable power to the Insurance Authority to strike a balance between the development of the insurance industry and the monitoring system so that public interest can be ensured. Therefore, I and the United Democrats support the spirit of the Bill.
As a matter of fact, with the development of the commercial sector, the insurance industry is faced with many new problems. As for the situations contained in the brief presented by the Administration to this Council, such as some insurance companies being engaged in speculation on futures market, even on taxi licences and in high risk-taking trades, these are problems found among some of the insurance companies over the recent years and are also the factors affecting their ability to pay indemnity. The authorities concerned should step up precautionary actions. We should bear in mind that when people wish to take out a policy, it is difficult for them to choose the right insurance company and most of them usually would rely on the Government's monitoring system, which should not be in force only for one or two years but on a long-term basis. Therefore, it is very important that the present power and regulatory regime of the Insurance Authority should be kept under constant review to see whether it is sufficient or not.
After having held many ad hoc group meetings, considered opinion of the trade and listened to the Government's open confirmation of certain relevant principles and its assurance that the extra powers conferred would be exercised cautiously at the Second Reading stage, I and the United Democrats feel that the present provisions have already achieved a right and reasonable balance. For this reason, we support the Bill as amended.
SECRETARY FOR MONETARY AFFAIRS: Mr Deputy President, I am grateful to Dr WONG and members of the ad hoc group for their very careful consideration of the Bill. The Administration supports the amendments which Dr WONG will be moving in the Committee stage. I would also assure Mr TO that our regulatory regime is kept under regular review, and if there is need for further refinements, we will not hesitate to seek to introduce them.
Dr WONG has identified the remaining concern of the ad hoc group and the insurance industry regarding the residual powers under new section 35(1) exercisable by the Insurance Authority on the ground of section 26(3). I can assure Members that the powers will only be used for less serious matters than those which may be imposed by virtue of other specified powers conferred on the Insurance Authority by the
Ordinance, such as the requirement to cease writing new business or the limitation of premium income.
Examples of the "less serious" requirements that may be imposed under the new section 35(1) include:
(a) requiring abstinence from related-party transactions, such as excessive (a) requiring abstinence from related-party transactions, such as excessive lending to related parties;
(b) requiring prio (b) requiring prio requiring prior notification of the recommencement of business by a dormant r notification of the recommencement of business by a dormant insurer, so that the Insurance Authority would have an opportunity to examine the appropriateness of the recommencement and the insurer's business plans;
(c) requiring prior notification of ch (c) requiring prior notification of ch requiring prior notification of changes in shareholders or controller, so anges in shareholders or controller, so as to avoid new entrants bypassing the authorization requirements by acquiring a dormant insurer;
(d) requiring the making of a section 35A deposit, which would serve as security (d) requiring the making of a section 35A deposit, which would serve as security for the protection of Hong Kong policy holders; and
(e) requiring an insurer not to pledge its assets as security for loans granted (e) requiring an insurer not to pledge its assets as security for loans granted to a third party where this would reduce the assets available for distribution to policy holders in the event of liquidation of the insurer and thus undermine their protection.
These examples are by no means exhaustive and it is not possible to predict all
the specific circumstances which might arise necessitating the exercise of the power conferred on the Insurance Authority under new section 35(1), on the ground of section 26(3). I can, however, assure Members again that the provisions of section 35(1) will only be invoked by the Insurance Authority after very careful consideration. It will be used with the objective of providing better protection for policy holders and removing potential problems which could have an adverse effect on their interest.
Mr Deputy President, I beg to move.
Question on the Second Reading of the Bill put and agreed to. Bill read the Second time.
Bill committed to a Committee of the whole Council pursuant to Standing Order 43(1).
INSURANCE COMPANIES (AMENDMENT) (NO. 2) BILL 1991
Resumption of debate on Second Reading which was moved on 11 December 1991 Question on Second Reading proposed.
DR PHILIP WONG: Mr Deputy President, I am not going to repeat the methodology adopted by the ad hoc group in tackling this Bill on which I have already reported earlier on when I spoke during the resumption of the Second Reading debate for the Insurance Companies (Amendment) Bill 1991. I will go straight to highlight what I believe to be some of the important features of the Bill.
First, it is the powers proposed under the new section 35(2) for the Insurance Authority to appoint an advisor or a manager to take over the business of an insurer.
We have been assured by the Administration that these proposed powers would only be exercised as a last resort in circumstances where all the other existing powers of the Insurance Authority would not be sufficient to protect the interests of policy holders.
We have also learnt that despite their wide nature, these powers could still be accepted by the insurance industry on the provisos that:
(a) the circumstances in which such powers can be exercised are narrowed and more (a) the circumstances in which such powers can be exercised are narrowed and more clearly defined; and
(b) safeguards for invoking the powers, such as prior approval from the Secre (b) safeguards for invoking the powers, such as prior approval from the Secretary for Monetary Affairs for the exercise of the powers would be installed.
That being said, what really worries us is the new ground proposed by clause 6 of the Bill on which the Insurance Authority can exercise the "take-over" powers, that is, "that it appears to him that the insurer is carrying on his business in a manner detrimental to the interests of policy holders or potential policy holders of the insurer". Such ground is so wide that the possibility of exercising the
"take-over" powers in inappropriate circumstances cannot be completely ruled out.
After much discussions between the ad hoc group and the Administration, and also between the Hong Kong Federation of Insurers and the Administration, I am glad to report that the Administration has now agreed that the additional ground under clause 6(a)(ii) should be deleted and that the ground for exercising the proposed "take-over" power will be limited solely to the ground stated in the existing section 26(1)(a). I will explain these amendments in more detail during the Committee stage.
I would also like to report that with the proposed amendment being suggested by the Administration, both the ad hoc group and the Hong Kong Federation of Insurers have agreed that a statutory requirement for the Insurance Authority to obtain approval from other government authority prior to exercising the powers on the specific ground of section 26(1)(a) is not required.
The second main concern of the ad hoc group is the wide power conferred on a m The second main concern of the ad hoc group is the wide power conferred on a manager by the proposed section 38A.
In clause 10, section 38A(3)(a) proposes that no meeting of the insurer can be held without the consent of the manager and section 38A(3)(b) proposes that no resolution may be passed at a meeting of the insurer which may fetter the powers of the manager.
We considered that in view of the draconian effects of these two sections, in case a manager acted unreasonably under these sections, the insurer should be allowed to apply to the High Court for an objective ruling, that is, whether a meeting should
be held or a resolution should be approved.
As regards the proposed section 38A(3)(a), the Administration pointed out that according to the proposed section 38A(5), the manager should not unreasonably refuse to give consent for a meeting. He is therefore subject to the test of reasonableness. An insurer who has ground to believe that the manager has acted unreasonably could thus apply to the High Court for a judicial review.
We are satisfied that given the reasonableness provision in section 38A(5), an aggrieved insurer could effectively apply for a judicial review and there is no need for specific provisions to allow an insurer to apply to the High Court.
Regarding section 38A(3)(b), we are advised by the Administration that on reconsideration, the effective exercise of the manager's powers in this section was found to have already been adequately covered by section 38A(3)(c) and therefore it could be deleted.
Mr Deputy President, the Bill together with the Insurance Companies (Amendment) Bill 1991, are the products of close scrutiny, not only by the ad hoc group but also by the Administration, various organizations including the Hong Kong Federation of Insurers, the Hong Kong Society of Accountants, the Actuarial Association of Hong Kong, and interested members of the community. I am grateful to them all.
With these remarks, Mr Deputy president, I support the motion.
MR JAMES TO (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, when I spoke on the Insurance Companies (Amendment) Bill 1991 a while ago, I already stated the views of the United Democrats of Hong Kong as regards the rigorous monitoring of insurance companies. I do not intend to repeat those views now.
Patently, the present (No. 2) Bill is seeking to give the authority concerned some sweeping powers in exercise of which the authority concerned may, in serious cases, even appoint an adviser to an insurer or a manager to assume the functions of the insurer so that suitable measures may be taken. After careful consideration, we have decided to put forward some agreed amendments at the Committee stage in order to strike a balance.
I hope the Insurance Authority will not only have regard to the overall monit I hope the Insurance Authority will not only have regard to the overall monitoring
of insurance companies but also pay close attention to the conduct of members of the insurance industry. This, though, may not fall within the scope of the present amendment Bill.
With these remarks, I support the motion on the amendments. With these remarks, I support the motion on the amendments.
SECRETARY FOR MONETARY AFFAIRS: Mr Deputy President, once again, I am grateful to Dr WONG and Members of the ad hoc group for their careful consideration of the Bill. Dr WONG has highlighted the concern of the ad hoc group and of the insurance sector about the serious nature of the powers of the Insurance Authority to appoint an adviser to an insurer or a manager to assume the functions of the insurer. I wish to confirm that their concerns have been carefully considered, and the Administration supports the amendments which Dr WONG will be moving in the Committee stage to restrict the scope of use of the powers. As a result of these amendments, the ground for exercising the new powers will be limited solely to the ground of section 26(1)(a), that is, that the Insurance Authority considers the exercise of the power to be desirable for protecting policy holders against the risk that the insurer may be unable to meet its liabilities or to fulfil the reasonable expectations of policy holders.
I can assure Members that the new power will only be exercised as a last resort, I can assure Members that the new power will only be exercised as a last resort, in circumstances where all the other interventionary powers would not be sufficient to protect the interests of policy holders. The aim of the Insurance Authority in exercising the powers will be to ensure that an insurer which is in serious
difficulties is properly managed and thereby prevent further damage being caused to the policy holders.
Mr Deputy President, with these remarks, I beg to move.
Question on the Second Reading of the Bill put and agreed to. Bill read the Second time.
Bill committed to a Committee of the whole Council pursuant to Standing Order 43(1). DANGEROUS DRUGS (AMENDMENT) (NO. 2) BILL 1992
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