1 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL -- 27 May 1992 1 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL -- 27 May 1992 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL -- 27 May 1992 1 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL -- 27 May 1992 1
OFFICIAL RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Wednesday, 27 May 1992
The Council met at half-past Two o'clock
PRESENT
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT
THE HONOURABLE JOHN JOSEPH SWAINE, C.B.E., Q.C., J.P.
THE CHIEF SECRETARY
THE HONOURABLE SIR DAVID ROBERT FORD, K.B.E., L.V.O., J.P.
THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY
THE HONOURABLE NATHANIEL WILLIAM HAMISH MACLEOD, C.B.E., J.P.
THE ATTORNEY GENERAL
THE HONOURABLE JEREMY FELL MATHEWS, C.M.G., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ALLEN LEE PENG-FEI, C.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE STEPHEN CHEONG KAM-CHUEN, C.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS SELINA CHOW LIANG SHUK-YEE, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS RITA FAN HSU LAI-TAI, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE HUI YIN-FAT, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE MARTIN LEE CHU-MING, Q.C., J.P. THE HONOURABLE DAVID LI KWOK-PO, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE NGAI SHIU-KIT, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE PANG CHUN-HOI, M.B.E.
THE HONOURABLE SZETO WAH
THE HONOURABLE TAM YIU-CHUNG
THE HONOURABLE ANDREW WONG WANG-FAT, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE LAU WONG-FAT, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE RONALD JOSEPH ARCULLI, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE MARTIN GILBERT BARROW, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS PEGGY LAM, M.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE MRS MIRIAM LAU KIN-YEE, J.P. THE HONOURABLE LAU WAH-SUM, O.B.E., J.P.
DR THE HONOURABLE LEONG CHE-HUNG
THE HONOURABLE JAMES DAVID McGREGOR, O.B.E., I.S.O., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS ELSIE TU, C.B.E.
THE HONOURABLE PETER WONG HONG-YUEN, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE ALBERT CHAN WAI-YIP
THE HONOURABLE VINCENT CHENG HOI-CHUEN
THE HONOURABLE MOSES CHENG MO-CHI
THE HONOURABLE MARVIN CHEUNG KIN-TUNG, J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG MAN-KWONG
THE HONOURABLE CHIM PUI-CHUNG
REV THE HONOURABLE FUNG CHI-WOOD
THE HONOURABLE FREDERICK FUNG KIN-KEE THE HONOURABLE TIMOTHY HA WING-HO, M.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL HO MUN-KA
DR THE HONOURABLE HUANG CHEN-YA
THE HONOURABLE SIMON IP SIK-ON, J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE LAM KUI-CHUN
DR THE HONOURABLE CONRAD LAM KUI-SHING THE HONOURABLE LAU CHIN-SHEK
THE HONOURABLE MISS EMILY LAU WAI-HING THE HONOURABLE LEE WING-TAT
THE HONOURABLE GILBERT LEUNG KAM-HO
THE HONOURABLE ERIC LI KA-CHEUNG, J.P. THE HONOURABLE FRED LI WAH-MING
THE HONOURALBE MAN SAI-CHEONG
THE HONOURABLE STEVEN POON KWOK-LIM
THE HONOURABLE HENRY TANG YING-YEN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE TIK CHI-YUEN
THE HONOURABLE JAMES TO KUN-SUN
DR THE HONOURABLE SAMUEL WONG PING-WAI, M.B.E., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE PHILIP WONG YU-HONG
DR THE HONOURABLE YEUNG SUM
THE HONOURABLE ZACHARY WONG WAI-YIN
ABSENT
THE HONOURABLE EDWARD HO SING-TIN, O.B.E., J.P. PROF THE HONOURABLE EDWARD CHEN KWAN-YIU PROF THE HONOURABLE FELICE LIEH MAK, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE NG MING-YUM
THE HONOURABLE HOWARD YOUNG
IN ATTENDANCE
MR MICHAEL LEUNG MAN-KIN, C.B.E., J.P.
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT
MR JOHN CHAN CHO-CHAK, L.V.O., O.B.E., J.P. SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER
MR CHAU TAK-HAY, J.P.
SECRETARY FOR TRADE AND INDUSTRY
MR ANTHONY GORDON EASON, J.P.
SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS DR LEE SHIU-HUNG, I.S.O., J.P.
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE
MR IAN ROBERT STRACHAN, J.P.
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY
THE CLERK TO THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL MR LAW KAM-SANG
Papers
The following papers were laid on the table pursuant to Standing Order 14(2): Subject
Subsidiary Legislation L.N. No. Subsidiary Legislation L.N. No.
Employment Agency (Amendment)
Regulation 1992....................................................... 159/92
Import and Export (Fees) (Amendment)
Regulation 1992....................................................... Regulation 1992....................................................... 160/92
Merchant Shipping (Certification of Officers)
(Amendment) Regulation 1992.................................. 161/92 (Amendment) Regulation 1992.................................. 161/92
Merchant Shipping (Fees) (Amendment)
Regulation 1992....................................................... Regulation 1992....................................................... 162/92
Merchant Shipping (Launches and Ferry Vessels)
(Amendment) Regulation 1992.................................. 163/92 (Amendment) Regulation 1992.................................. 163/92
Tenancy (Notice of Termination) (Exclusion)
(Consolidation) (Amendment) Order 1992.................. (Consolidation) (Amendment) Order 1992.................. 992.................. 164/92
Rules of the Supreme Court (Amendment)
Rules
1992............................................................... 165/92 1992............................................................... 165/92
Tax Reserve Certificates (Rate of Interest)
(No. 2) Notice 1992.................................................. (No. 2) Notice 1992.................................................. 166/92
Sessional Papers 1991-92
No. 77 -- No. 77 -- Report of the Police Complaints Committee 1991 Report of the Police Complaints Committee 1991
No. 78 -- No. 78 -- Kowloon-Canton Railway Corporation Kowloon-Canton Railway Corporation
Annual Report 1991
Addresses by Members
Report of the Police Complaints Committee 1991
MRS PEGGY LAM: Mr Deputy President, on behalf of the Police Complaints Committee, may I present the Committee's Annual Report for 1991.
The Committee is an independent body, appointed by the Governor, to monitor and review the investigation of complaints made by the public against the police. Investigations are carried out by the Complaints Against Police Office (CAPO) of the Royal Hong Kong Police Force. CAPO's reports, together with the relevant files, are examined by the Committee, which is assisted by an independent secretariat. A case is finalized only after the investigation result has been endorsed by the Committee.
For the benefit of the careful readers who compare the figures in one part of the report with those in another part, let me make two clarifications.
First, the number of complaints received is not the same as the number of allegations. A complaint may, and usually does, contain more than one allegation.
Secondly, the number of complaints received in a year is not the same as the number of reports examined by the Committee in the same year. For obvious reasons, not all the complaints received in one year can be fully investigated within the same year.
I shall now highlight some of the contents in the Committee's Report.
In 1991, 3 158 complaints were received. This represents a drop of 7.8% against In 1991, 3 158 complaints were received. This represents a drop of 7.8% against the 1990 figure. It is also the lowest since the setting up of the Committee in 1986.
Even this all time low figure may appear to be hardly satisfactory. However, we should see it in the proper perspective. By the very nature of their work, police officers frequently come into situations which render them liable to complaints because of inconvenience caused to citizens. To give an idea of the frequency of such situations, 1.08 million persons were stopped and checked in the street and 1.63 million traffic summonses and tickets were issued in 1991. These are, of course, only two examples of the type of police duties which might give rise to conflict if there were a lack of understanding on either side.
While the total number of complaints received in 1991 represent an all time low since 1986, the number of complaints alleging assaults -- 1 699 in 1991 -- is the highest among these years. It represents a 3.3% increase over 1990 and a 36% increase over 1986.
I should point out, however, that in both absolute and percentage terms, more and more such allegations were either subsequently withdrawn by the complainants or were not pursuable because the complainants refused to give sufficient information. In the investigation reports endorsed by the Committee in 1986, 47.3% of the assault allegations were subsequently withdrawn or not pursuable. The percentage has
steadily increased to 85.3% in 1991.
That brings me to the examination of CAPO's investigation reports. In 1991, 3 That brings me to the examination of CAPO's investigation reports. In 1991, 3 333 reports have been endorsed by the Committee after examination and where necessary, queries and suggestions raised with CAPO. (Believe me, this auspicious figure of three-three-three-three has come about by accident and not design.)
These reports deal with 4 580 allegations, of which about two-thirds were withdrawn or not pursuable. Only 2.3% of these allegations were substantiated.
Some may point to the low percentage of substantiated allegations and suggest Some may point to the low percentage of substantiated allegations and suggest that the present complaints system is ineffective. Such an inference is invalid because it assumes that most complaints are justified. While we should not easily dismiss a complaint as misguided, it is equally important that we should not
disbelieve a complainee simply because his account of the incident differs from the complainant's. This is the reason for the 27.1% of allegations which were classified as "Unsubstantiated". Nearly all these cases involve the complainants' words against the police officers', with no independent witness for either side.
To support the view that a complainant's words are not easily dismissed as misguided, I should mention that of the 4 580 allegations considered by the Committee in 1991, only 84 or 1.8% were classified as "False". Consideration was given in each and every such case on whether to prosecute the complainant for wasteful employment of police time.
With regard to the 3 333 CAPO's reports endorsed by the Committee in 1991, the final conclusions reached in these reports incorporated 123 suggestions made by the Committee, mainly on further investigation required and classification of result. In addition, 269 comments and queries were raised and CAPO's subsequent explanations were accepted.
During the year under report, the Committee also held extensive discussions with During the year under report, the Committee also held extensive discussions with CAPO on new procedures in dealing with complaints.
As a result, with effect from 1 January 1992, new procedures have been adopted to deal with sub judice complaints, that is, complaints which are likely to be raised again by crime suspects during the court case against them. After considering the advice of the Attorney General, the Committee has accepted his and CAPO's suggestion that normally only a preliminary investigation should be carried out before the court hearing. Each case is to be considered by the Legal Department on whether or not a full investigation into the complaint is necessary. The sub judice complaints
procedures will be reviewed in mid-1993.
The Committee has also accepted CAPO's suggestion that with effect from 1 Jan The Committee has also accepted CAPO's suggestion that with effect from 1 January
1992, minor complaints such as those alleging abusive language and impoliteness should be resolved informally, if the complainants so agree, through the personal intervention of a senior officer of Superintendent or above. Such informal resolution would save the time which would otherwise have to be spent on a full investigation, would give the complainant a more satisfactory result and also, would be an opportunity for the senior officer to give the complainee some personal advice.
Finally, on behalf of the Committee, I would like to place on record our appreciation of the co-operation given to the Committee by the Commissioner of Police, and in particular, his officers in CAPO.
Kowloon-Canton Railway Corporation Annual Report 1991
FINANCIAL SECRETARY: My Deputy President, in accordance with section 14(5) of the Kowloon-Canton Railway Corporation Ordinance, I table the annual report and accounts of the Kowloon-Canton Railway Corporation for the year ending 31 December 1991.
The Corporation continued to maintain a strong financial position in 1991. Operating revenue stood at $1,849 million, an increase of 16% over 1990. Including income from property development, net profit for the year was $449 million. A dividend of $140 million was paid to the Government. This represents a return to the taxpayers on the substantial public investment in the Corporation. It also underlines the Corporation's ability to operate on a prudent commercial basis.
At the end of 1991, total assets of the Corporation stood at $5.4 billion and borrowings at less than $1 billion. The year-end debt to equity ratio was 1:4.3. Cash generated by the operating divisions was sufficient to cover ongoing capital expenditure and debt repayment.
The Kowloon-Canton Railway carried 189 million passengers in 1991, an increase of 5% over 1990. Passengers to and from Lo Wu increased by 13% to 31 million, while through train traffic between Kowloon and Guangzhou rose by 7% to 2.5 million.
Major improvements were made during the year to enhance services. Ninety-six new train cars were delivered by October 1991. The new train timetable achieved an average punctuality of 96%. A programme to install additional escalators and replace old ones also started in 1991.
Freight business dropped slightly owing to keen competition in the Hong Kong/China freight market, resulting in a 4% decline in overall traffic. A study to evaluate future options for the Corporation's freight strategy has been carried out.
The Light Rail Transit System carried 95.7 million passengers in 1991, an increase of 11.6% over 1990. The three regional links in Tuen Mun were all commissioned by February 1992. Work has started on the Tin Shui Wai Extension for completion in early 1993. Thirty new light rail vehicles will be delivered starting this October.
Improvements to the cooling capacity of the existing vehicles' air-conditioning system have also begun.
Over the next five years, the Corporation has budgeted $4.6 billion for Over the next five years, the Corporation has budgeted $4.6 billion for infrastructure and service improvements. Major projects include redeveloping the Ho Tung Lau Depot and Maintenance Centre to provide better maintenance and more stabling area for the KCR fleet; improving the signalling system and station facilities; expanding the Kowloon Goods Yard for better cargo handling; and providing additional light rail vehicles and noise abatement measures. The substantial investment demonstrates clearly the Corporation's continued commitment to upgrade its systems to provide high quality services.
In sum, the Corporation has continued to operate successfully. I would like to thank the Chairman, the Managing Board, the management and all staff of the Corporation for their achievements in the past year.
Oral answers to questions
Hung Hom immigration control point
1. MRS PEGGY LAM asked (in Cantonese): Will the Government inform this Council 1. MRS PEGGY LAM asked (in Cantonese): Will the Government inform this Council whether there are plans to improve and expand the Immigration Department's control point at the KCR Hung Hom Terminal, so as to enable through-train passengers to complete their arrival/departure formalities more comfortably and efficiently?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, the existing terminal was not designed
to cope with international travel. It was built in 1975, four years before the through-train system was considered, at a time when all passengers for China had to change at Lo Wu. Therefore, no provision was made for customs or immigration facilities. These had to be improvised within the limits of the existing building.
We have explored the possibility of providing a purpose-built hall with better facilities for the comfort of passengers. But the existing terminal offers little scope for this and it is not likely that significant improvements can be made in the near future. The only immediate improvement we can make is to air-condition the customs and immigration hall. We are discussing with the KCRC and hope to do so by mid-1993.
MRS PEGGY LAM (in Cantonese): Would the Administration consider setting up an additional control point along the KCR line to improve the flow of passengers at Hung Hom station?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, this would be very difficult because some passengers might get off the trains as well as get on them. I think it would be very difficult for control purposes.
MR LAU WAH-SUM: Mr Deputy President, the present situation, in summer time, of the Departure and Arrival Hall is really intolerable. It is very hot and the ventilation is very bad. May I ask why we cannot install window air-conditioners in shorter time -- why we have to wait for one year to install air-conditioning?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, I agree with Mr LAU that the conditions are very, very difficult. We are considering how quickly we can do this. I understand that window air-conditioners may not be the right answer but I will look into this.
MR MOSES CHENG: Mr Deputy President, will the Administration please advise this Council why it is not possible to establish separate facilities for Hong Kong residents as those offered at Kai Tak Airport, as inevitably this will encourage an
improved flow of passengers checking through the immigration area?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, I will consider this. There are at present 14 counters -- seven in each direction. And I will consider this proposal.
MR ANDREW WONG: Mr Deputy President, judging from the supplementary answer that the KCRC might do this by mid-1993, if agreement has not been struck between the Government and KCRC can the work really be done within a year, or less than a year? It is bound to be less than a year as this is mid-1992 now.
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, the present proposal is that the KCRC would install the air-conditioning for the Government and we would pay the maintenance costs.
"Sun Kam Fat" incident
2. MR STEVEN POON asked (in Cantonese): Regarding the incident of the barge "Sun 2. MR STEVEN POON asked (in Cantonese): Regarding the incident of the barge "Sun Kam Fat" with its load of vehicles and the tug-boat "Yau Luen No. 7" being intercepted by the Chinese public security officers and its crew of eight being taken to the Chinese Public Security Bureau on 21 April 1992, will the Government inform this Council:
(a) whether the barge and the tug-boat were in Chinese waters (a) whether the barge and the tug-boat were in Chinese waters whether the barge and the tug-boat were in Chinese waters or in Hong Kong or in Hong Kong waters when the incident took place;
(b) whether there has been any negotiation with the Chinese side over the inc (b) whether there has been any negotiation with the Chinese side over the incident; if so, what is the latest development; and
(c) whether arrangements can be made with the Chinese side to allow t (c) whether arrangements can be made with the Chinese side to allow t whether arrangements can be made with the Chinese side to allow these cre hese crewmen to meet their families; if not, why not?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, when the Marine Police and an Auxiliary Air Force helicopter arrived on the scene, both the barge and the tug-boat were in
Chinese waters. The Chinese side have subsequently confirmed to us that their patrol vessels first intercepted the two Hong Kong boats in Chinese waters. At no time were any of the vessels observed by the Hong Kong authorities inside Hong Kong waters.
There has been no negotiation with the Chinese side over this incident, although There has been no negotiation with the Chinese side over this incident, although immediately afterwards and again on 7 May we sought information from them about the incident and the whereabouts of the crew of the barge and the tug-boat.
Whether the members of the crew can be permitted to receive visitors is a matter Whether the members of the crew can be permitted to receive visitors is a matter for the Chinese authorities. We are awaiting their response to our enquiries about the crew.
MR STEVEN POON (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, it is considered reasonable and humane in Hong Kong for a person in custody to be allowed to receive his relatives. Given the increasing close working relationship between the Hong Kong and the Guangdong authorities, would the Administration inform this Council whether arrangements, by way of other channels such as the Sino-British Joint Liaison Group or meetings of the Commissioner of Police with the Chinese authorities, can be made to enable the members of the crew to meet their relatives?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, I believe the best solution in these circumstances is to use the normal diplomatic channels, and this we have done on two occasions since this incident took place.
MR CHEUNG MAN-KWONG (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, apart from waiting for response from the Chinese side, will the Administration inform this Council whether it will take the initiative to send officials to visit the members of the crew in custody with the object of understanding the course of the event that day, and identifying and offering any assistance the crew might seek from the Government of Hong Kong? If not, what are the reasons?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, as I stated in my opening statement, we believe from the information available to us that this incident took place in Chinese waters. We believe the best way to resolve this is through diplomatic
channels.
MR JAMES TO (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, it is mentioned in the third paragraph of the main reply that whether the members of the crew can be permitted to receive visitors is a matter for the Chinese authorities. Besides diplomatic channels, are there indeed any other channels available to help these people to meet their friends or relatives? Has the Administration made any other attempts in this regard?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, I think I have already answered this question. We believe the answer is to use diplomatic channels; we do not believe there are any other practical channels that we could use in these particular circumstances.
DR CONRAD LAM (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, in the second paragraph of his main reply, the Secretary mentioned that the Administration had, immediately after the incident and again on 7 May, sought information from the Chinese side about the incident. Have the Chinese authorities indeed provided the information required in response to the two requests? Could this Council be provided with that information, if available? Was this barge with its load of vehicles involved in smuggling
activities?
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Certainly, the first part of the question is within the ambit of the main question and answer, Secretary for Security. I do not think the second part of the question arises from the main question or answer.
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, with regard to the first part of the question, we have not yet had a reply from the Chinese side to either of our two requests.
MR ANDREW WONG: Mr Deputy President, the Secretary has said that at no time were any of the vessels observed by the Hong Kong authorities inside Hong Kong waters. Could we have a legal definition of "Hong Kong waters" and be advised whether the definition
is accepted by the Chinese?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, the waters are defined legally and they are clearly known to both the Chinese authorities and to the Hong Kong Marine Police and other enforcement agencies.
MR LAU CHIN-SHEK (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, would the Secretary inform this Council whether the Marine Police and the Auxiliary Air Force helicopter arrived on the scene following receipt of the emergency call; if yes, how long did they take to reach the scene following receipt of the call?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, a report was received at 1445 hours on 21 April from a male person to the police through a 999 call. On receipt of this report, the Marine Police despatched police launches and a helicopter to the scene. The marine police vessels, as it happened, reached the scene first at 1509 hours. At that time the two vessels and the Chinese patrol vessels -- there were two Chinese patrol vessels -- were all in Chinese waters.
MR STEVEN POON (in Cantonese): Thank you for allowing me to ask one more supplementary question, Mr Deputy President. According to the report on vessel movements by Cha Kwo Ling Marine Office, "Sun Kam Fat" still berthed at the cargo working area of the marine office at 1130 hours that day; in other words, the barge did not depart before 1130 hours. Would the Administration inform this Council whether it would be possible for the barge to reach Chinese waters in two hours or so at 1445 hours?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, I cannot verify that question, simply because I do not know at what time that vessel left Hong Kong waters.
MR CHEUNG MAN-KWONG (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, could I ask whether representatives have been sent by the Administration to visit the eight members of the crew in jail or in custody? If not, is it the obligation of the Hong Kong Government to do so? Would this constitute a dereliction of duty if the Administration fails to do its best to understand the course of the event and provide protection to the people of Hong Kong?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, we do wish to protect Hong Kong people when they are outside Hong Kong. We believe the way to do it, in these circumstances, is through diplomatic channels. We do not believe it is appropriate to use any other method.
Right of abode in Hong Kong
3. MISS EMILY LAU asked: Will the Government i 3. MISS EMILY LAU asked: Will the Government i MISS EMILY LAU asked: Will the Government inform this Council: nform this Council:
As Article 24, Chapter III of the Basic Law refers to Chinese nationality and the period of residence in Hong Kong as criteria in determining the right of abode, whereas the existing legislation refers to the Chinese race and the period of residence in Hong Kong as criteria, will the Government inform this Council what progress has been made in ensuring that Hong Kong residents who are of Chinese race with foreign
nationality and who have satisfied the residence requirement will automatically enjoy the right of abode in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region after 1997?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, talks are under way within the Joint Liaison Group with a view to aligning the provisions of the Immigration Ordinance with the relevant provisions of the Basic Law. The status of ethnic Chinese with other nationalities will be clarified as part of that process. We hope to be in a position to announce progress as soon as these discussions are completed.
MISS EMILY LAU: Mr Deputy President, will the Government confirm to this Council whether it is true that, unless an agreement is reached with the Chinese, these Hong Kong people who have acquired foreign nationality will lose their right of abode in Hong Kong in 1997; and, in that event, how many people the Government would estimate would be effected?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, if I may answer the second part first. We do not know how many people fall into that category; it is simply not possible
for the Government to have such statistics. As to the first part of the question, it is possible for the Hong Kong Government to unilaterally go ahead and pass such legislation, but we do not believe that this will help us through the transition and, in particular, our primary objective is to align Hong Kong legislation with the Basic Law.
MR SIMON IP: Mr Deputy President, the Basic Law contains two terms, one is "Chinese Nationals" and the other is "Chinese Citizens". Will the Secretary please tell this Council whether those two terms are interchangeable, or if there is a difference, what the difference is?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, it is one of the issues that we do wish to discuss with the Chinese in the context of the talks in the Joint Liaison Group. MR ANDREW WONG: Mr Deputy President, I think the gist of Miss Emily LAU's question is whether or not, under paragraphs 1 and 2 of Article 24, -- not section (4) which relates to foreign nationals acquiring the right of abode in Hong Kong -- those persons of Chinese race who were born in Hong Kong or who have been resident in Hong Kong for seven years, once they have been given the right of abode in Hong Kong, could lose it by simply acquiring a foreign nationality. Will that be a part of the
negotiations, and what is the Government's position on that question?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, the declaration that people would have to take for right of abode in Hong Kong will not affect their nationality. If I have not answered Mr WONG's question properly, perhaps he could put it to me again.
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I think it was a rather long question, Mr WONG.
MR ANDREW WONG: Mr Deputy President, it is a rather complicated question. I think the gist of the question is not about section (4) of paragraph 2 of Article 24 of the Basic Law which relates to foreign nationals acquiring the right of abode in Hong Kong, but about persons of Chinese race either born in Hong Kong or born elsewhere who have been resident in Hong Kong for seven years; they have been given the right of abode in Hong Kong in that their Identity Cards bear the stamp of "right of abode
in Hong Kong". The question is whether or not they can lose that status once they acquire a foreign nationality?
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Have you got the question, Secretary for Security?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Yes, thank you, Mr Deputy President. I do not see that once one has acquired the right of abode one will lose it when one takes another nationality.
MR MARTIN BARROW: Mr Deputy President, will the Secretary confirm that, in pursuing this matter through the Joint Liaison Group, the Government will ensure that those of Chinese race with foreign nationality will have consular protection in the future?
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I am not sure that arises from the main question, Mr BARROW.
MR JIMMY McGREGOR: Mr Deputy President, will the Secretary take note of the possibility, at least, of many thousands of persons of non-Chinese race, who at present have the right to land in Hong Kong, being given the right of abode by unilateral decision? That, though, is not a part of this particular question, as far as I am aware.
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, yes, we are aware of this. The Secretary for Security made a statement in response to a written question from Miss Emily LAU in this Chamber, I believe, in the middle of November. That statement still stands.
MR JAMES TO (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, will the Secretary inform us whether the Administration's stance or orientation is purely to clarify with the Chinese side the status of persons of Chinese race who have acquired a foreign nationality or to seek and ensure that the right of abode can automatically be given to those who have met the requirement of the period of residence?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, clearly I do not want to go into the details of the discussions, but may I say that there are a large number of issues which do need to be discussed in order to align our existing immigration legislation with the provisions of Article 24 of the Basic Law.
MISS EMILY LAU: Mr Deputy President, given that the Government has been negotiating with the Chinese for quite a few years over the right of abode for expatriates in Hong Kong who have lived here for seven years and still have got nowhere, is the Government confident that it will be able to reach a satisfactory agreement with the Chinese on the Hong Kong Chinese people who have acquired foreign nationality? And further, Mr Deputy President, will the Government tell this Council what sort of rights these people would lose should the Government fail to reach an agreement with the Chinese? Would these people then presumably lose their right of abode in Hong Kong in 1997.
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, we will seek to ensure the rights of Hong Kong people as they exist at present in our discussions with the Chinese. It is not true that we have not made any progress. First of all, in the context of non-Chinese people in Hong Kong, we have of course reduced the unconditional stay from nine to seven years. As for Hong Kong people, we have brought in the concept of right of abode which is a major step forward and was introduced into this Council in 1987.
As to the second part of Miss LAU's question, it is hypothetical; so I choose As to the second part of Miss LAU's question, it is hypothetical; so I choose not to answer it.
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Could you repeat the second part of your question, Miss LAU, and let me rule on whether it is hypothetical?
MISS EMILY LAU: Yes, Mr Deputy President. My question was: If the Government fails to reach an agreement with China over this issue of whether the Hong Kong Chinese who have acquired foreign nationality will be given the right of abode in Hong Kong after 1997, what sort of rights which they are enjoying now will they lose?
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I do not see that it is hypothetical; it is a policy question. There is either an answer or there is not, Secretary for Security.
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, I am not in a position to answer this question at present because we have not got that far in our discussions with the Chinese to be able to answer it.
DR LEONG CHE-HUNG: Mr Deputy President, can the Administration inform this Council what progress has been made towards the right of abode status for non-ethnic Chinese, that is, expatriates, before 1997, who have been in Hong Kong for seven years or over?
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Dr LEONG, that is outside the ambit of the main question, although it arose as an example in Miss LAU's question.
Education for mildly disabled children
4. MR VINCENT CHENG asked (in Cantonese): In view of the well accepted principle 4. MR VINCENT CHENG asked (in Cantonese): In view of the well accepted principle that mildly disabled children (including partially sighted, partially hearing and mildly mentally handicapped) should be encouraged to receive education in ordinary schools, will the Government inform this Council:
(a) whether an ordinary school is entitled to reject a mildly disabled student (a) whether an ordinary school is entitled to reject a mildly disabled student who has been offered a place in the school through the Government's central allocation system on grounds of the student's disability;
(b) what kind of training is provided to teachers in ordinary schools who have (b) what kind of training is provided to teachers in ordinary schools who have to teach these students and how often such training is organized;
(c) whether the Government has received complaints from parents in the pas (c) whether the Government has received complaints from parents in the pas whether the Government has received complaints from parents in the past three years regarding inadequate care and support provided to their mildly disabled children studying in ordinary schools; if so, the number of such complaints and the form of assistance given to the parents; and
(d) what measures the Government will t (d) what measures the Government will t what measures the Government will take to further encourage mildly disabled ake to further encourage mildly disabled
children to receive education in ordinary schools?
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER: Mr Deputy President, the Government's policy is that disabled children should receive education in ordinary schools, unless the degree of disability makes it necessary for a child to be placed in a special school. By and large, mildly disabled children are able to benefit from education in an
ordinary school, given some extra help in the form of special classes and other services.
An ordinary school is not entitled to reject a mildly disabled student on grounds of that student's disability. Where a disabled child is considered by the headmaster of an ordinary school to be unduly disruptive or incapable of benefiting from education in that school, the case must be referred to the Special Education Section of the Education Department for a ruling. If the results of an assessment by experts in the Special Education Section indicate that the child is unable to benefit from an education in an ordinary school because of his disability, that child will be recommended for transfer to a special school.
Teachers in ordinary schools who are required to teach students in special classes may attend the Two-year Part-time In-service Course of Training for Teachers of Children with Special Educational Needs. This course is operated by the Sir Robert Black College of Education and admits trainees every year. Additionally, the Special Education Section organizes short introductory courses on "Helping Pupils with Problems in the Classroom" for teachers of ordinary classes so as to familiarize them with the general techniques of handling children with special educational needs. These courses are organized twice a year.
The Education Department has received only one complaint during the past three The Education Department has received only one complaint during the past three years regarding a mildly disabled child studying in an ordinary school. In that instance, a parent complained that a secondary school had failed to apply to the Hong Kong Examinations Authority for the allocation of an appropriate centre for her
physically handicapped daughter sitting a public examination. The school quickly rectified the oversight and satisfactory arrangements were made with the Examinations Authority.
To encourage and enable mildly disabled children to receive education in ordi To encourage and enable mildly disabled children to receive education in ordinary schools, the Education Department provides special classes in ordinary schools and
a range of remedial and advisory services for them or their parents. These include the Integrated Kindergarten Programme for mildly disabled pre-schoolers, resource classes and Resource Teaching Centres for children with learning difficulties, peripatetic advisory services for hearing impaired pupils, resource teachers for blind integrators, and so on. These services are regularly reviewed and improved to enhance effectiveness and to ensure that they meet the specific needs of the students.
MR VINCENT CHENG (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, in view of the fact that the result of allocation of places for the new school year is to be announced soon, could I ask the Administration which officer of the Education Department parents of disabled children should turn to if the school authorities concerned show signs of reluctance to admit their children when they bring them to school for registration? What is the telephone number of this officer? I believe it will be very difficult to ask the Secretary to give the telephone number off hand; but I hope this could be provided in writing.
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER: Mr Deputy President, by a stroke of good fortune I do have the telephone number. A parent who is faced with that sort of situation should contact the Principal Education Officer (Schools Administration) in the Schools Division of the Education Department Headquarters; the telephone number is 839 2225.
MR MOSES CHENG: Mr Deputy President, in the second paragraph of the answer the Secretary informed this Council that an ordinary school is not entitled to reject a mildly disabled student. Would the Administration please advise this Council whether the Education Department is aware of cases where parents are being pressurized by a school to transfer their mildly handicapped children to another school because the teachers are facing difficulties in handling the children? How would the Department be dealing with such cases?
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER: Mr Deputy President, according to information available to the Education Department, they have no record of specific instances of schools creating difficulties in the way that Mr CHENG has described. Should such a situation arise, then the parents concerned have the right to complain to the
Education Department, to the Principal Education Officer of the Schools Administration, and if such cases are referred to the Education Department, then the Special Education Section will arrange for a detailed professional assessment to be undertaken to ascertain whether the child is or is not capable of benefiting from an ordinary education.
DR LAM KUI-CHUN: Mr Deputy President, would the Secretary for Education and Manpower supply this Council with some facts showing how well these disabled students are integrated into the classes for ordinary students? For example, what percentage of such disabled students require the remedial and advisory services mentioned in the fifth paragraph of the answer?
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER: Mr Deputy President, there is of course a very wide range of disabilities. I think some disabilities, particularly the milder physical disabilities, have probably very little bearing on the child's capacity to learn. Other disabilities, particularly those involving a mental handicap, would probably have a more immediate impact. As far as statistics are concerned, our assessment is that the total population of mildly disabled children, who are capable of integrating in ordinary schools, was about 36 000 in the 1991-92 school year and, of these, just under 8 000 required intensive remedial or other supporting services.
MR LAU CHIN-SHEK (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, would the Administration inform this Council of the employment situation of the mildly disabled persons who have reached the age of 16 and have completed nine years of compulsory education? As the largest employer in the territory, has the Administration taken the lead to set an example to the industrial and commercial sectors in giving priority to mildly disabled persons in employment?
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: That is not really relevant, I think, to the main question, Mr LAU.
MR TIK CHI-YUEN (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, one scenario may be that parents in general may not be in favour of school, in which their children study, admitting mildly disabled children. Has the Administration done anything to improve the
situation?
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER: Mr Deputy President, I believe this question probably touches on the wider area of public education aimed at changing the community's attitude towards disabled persons. I believe, although I am not responsible for this subject, this is one of the matters which are discussed in the recent Rehabilitation Green Paper.
MR WONG WAI-YIN (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, in the second paragraph of his main reply, the Secretary said and I quote "If the results of an assessment by experts in the Special Education Section indicate that the child is unable to benefit from an education in an ordinary school because of his disability, that child will be recommended for transfer to a special school." Could I ask the Secretary why they will only be "recommended" and not immediately arranged for a transfer? In general how long will these school children wait in order to be allocated places in a special school? How will the Administration ensure that these children will benefit from education in an ordinary school during the waiting period?
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER: Mr Deputy President, the allocation of a child to a special school would involve obtaining the consent of the parent, which is why the word "recommended" was chosen in my reply. Should an allocation be accepted, there is at present no difficulty at all in arranging for placement. In fact, as of September 1991 there were more than 9 000 places in special schools and the actual enrolment was only about 8 000.
Manpower situation of medical and nursing staff in public hospitals 5. MR WONG WAI-YIN asked (in Cantonese): Will the Government inform this Council: 5. MR WONG WAI-YIN asked (in Cantonese): Will the Government inform this Council:
(a) of the establishment and vacancy position of doctors and nurses in the (a) of the establishment and vacancy position of doctors and nurses in the Department of Health and Hospital Authority;
(b) whether any complaint has been received in the past two years regarding d (b) whether any complaint has been received in the past two years regarding delay in treating patients, if so, what is the number of complaints received;
(c) what measures the Government will take to ensure (c) what measures the Government will take to ensure what measures the Government will take to ensure that there is no delay in that there is no delay in treating patients owing to shortage of doctors and nurses; and
(d) what immediate and long term measures the Government will take to resolve (d) what immediate and long term measures the Government will take to resolve the problem of shortage of doctors and nurses?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr Deputy President, the answers, seriatim, are as follows:
(a) As at 1 May 1992, the Department of Health has a total establishment of 463 (a) As at 1 May 1992, the Department of Health has a total establishment of 463 doctor posts and 1 247 nursing posts with vacancies of 17 and 84 respectively. As for the Hospital Authority, funding is provided for a total of 2 385 doctor posts and 16 809 nursing posts with vacancies of 121 and 1 328 respectively.
(b) In the past two years, the Department of Health has received a total of 23 (b) In the past two years, the Department of Health has received a total of 23 complaints on failure to obtain an appointment at out-patient clinics. No breakdown by nature of complaints about public hospitals for the past two years is available. However, it is the intention of the Hospital Authority to develop a more detailed analysis on the nature of complaints in future according to the hospitals, specialties,
service units and personnel involved.
(c) Arrangements have already been made by the Department of Health to facili (c) Arrangements have already been made by the Department of Health to facilitate priority treatment of urgent cases at general out-patient clinics. The Nursing Officers and Medical Officers in-charge have flexibility to exercise their discretion to grant special appointments for such cases. As regards specialist clinics and the Accident and Emergency Departments in public hospitals under the management of the Hospital Authority, professional staff will screen patients to assess the severity of their injury or illness and accord them with priority treatment where appropriate.
(d) As I indicated in the written reply to a supplementary question raised in (d) As I indicated in the written reply to a supplementary question raised in this Council last October, the Government has made strenuous efforts in the past few years to improve the employment terms, career development, training opportunities, working conditions, professional status and job satisfaction of doctors and nurses.
Measures introduced for doctors include revision of salary structure, Measures introduced for doctors include revision of salary structure, enhancement to career prospects, honorarium for long working hours and better manning
of clinical units.
Measures for nurses include revision of pay scale, improved career prospects and training opportunities, residential allowance for student nurses, intensified recruitment drive, overtime allowance for Registered Nurses, Part-time Nurses Scheme, introduction of Ward Stewards and Clinic Assistants and greater use of Chinese as medium of instruction for student nurses.
In the long term, we intend to build on the existing foundation and explore further ways to attract and retain doctors and nurses. Various recommendations made by the Working Party on Primary Health Care, such as the development of family medicine in general out-patient clinics and the concept of health nurse, will also help enhance the professionalism and status of nurses. In addition, plans are already in hand to introduce the Nurse Specialist Scheme and actions are being taken to review the manpower situation in the light of recent wastage and recruitment rates.
MR WONG WAI-YIU (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, will the Secretary inform this Council whether the present manpower shortage situation, compared with that of the previous year, has improved or further deteriorated? Can he provide us with the relevant figures? And have the past efforts of the Administration to recruit
additional medical and nursing staff brought about any notable improvement? If not, why not?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr Deputy President, the improvements that we have introduced were initiated in the past two years. It will be too early at this stage to assess the long-term effect. However, as regards the wastage rate of doctors, it has shown an improvement over recent years. Whereas the wastage rate of doctors in 1989 was about 12%, it has now gone down to about 6%. And as regards the nurses, the wastage rate is now remaining stationary at about 10%.
MR MICHAEL HO (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, part (d) of the main question concerns "what measures the Government will take" instead of "the various measures that have been taken", and the measures like allowance for student nurses, intensified recruitment drive, Part-time Nurses Scheme and appointment of Ward Stewards mentioned in the reply were in fact introduced more than two years ago. Are there any specific
plans that the Administration is going to carry out? Furthermore, it was also mentioned in part (d) of the main reply .....
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Mr HO, it is a very, very long question and there are lots of Members wanting to ask supplementaries. Could you ask one question, please?
MR MICHAEL HO (in Cantonese): I would try to rephrase my question. The payment of allowance and the introduction of the Part-time Nurses Scheme mentioned in part (d) of the reply were introduced more than two years ago. What are the iniatives and specific measures the Administration have in mind to improve the recruitment of nurses?
Besides it was mentioned that Chinese would be used as the medium of instruction for student nurses. In fact this was what the nursing profession disagreed with and felt strongly about. Why does the Administration think that this is helpful towards improving the recruitment of nurses?
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: There are two questions there, Secretary for Health and Welfare. Have you got them both?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr Deputy President, the improvement to the nursing recruitment and retention situation is on an ongoing basis; so while we have done a lot in the past, more will continue to be done in the future. The measures that we have introduced will continue to be carried on in the future. As regards Mr HO's request about definite plans in the future, in fact the Hospital Authority has
established a Working Group on Nursing Services to look into the overall provision and shortfall of nurses, measures to alleviate the shortfall, education and training for nurses, development of the career structure for nurses, redefinition of nursing duties and the development of professional standards, and guidelines and procedures for nurses. So future action will continue to be undertaken, especially by this working party, on the nursing services established in the Hospital Authority.
As regards Mr HO's query about the applicability of introducing Chinese as the As regards Mr HO's query about the applicability of introducing Chinese as the medium of instruction, in fact this is already being studied at the Yan Chai Hospital and we will have to wait and assess the effectiveness of this scheme. Anyway, this is one of the measures to improve the recruitment of nurses.
DR HUANG CHEN-YA (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, at present we are facing shortages of both doctors and nurses while there is a large number of doctors and nurses from mainland China who cannot practise here. This is in fact a waste of manpower. Why does the Government not provide them some enhancement courses to upgrade their standard to a level that meet our professional requirements so that they can register and practise here?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr Deputy President, first, to answer the part on nurses. Nurses from other countries, including China, may apply for registration in Hong Kong subject to requirements set down by the Nursing Board. In tackling the problem of manpower shortage, we must bear in mind the interests of patients and ensure that only those who can meet the required professional standards are allowed to
register for practice in Hong Kong.
As regards the question of doctors, Members of this Council will be aware that As regards the question of doctors, Members of this Council will be aware that recently the Medical Registration (Amendment) Ordinance has already been introduced and this provides the opportunity for limited registration. If there be a need for meeting the special needs of Hong Kong which cannot be met locally, this limited registration could also be given consideration. It will be up to the Medical Council to promulgate and determine the nature of employment suitable in Hong Kong's
circumstances.
DR HUANG CHEN-YA (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, the Secretary has not answered my question. As we all know, one has to sit the qualifying examinations before one is allowed to practise here. Why does the Administration not run some training courses to help them in passing the examinations?
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: That part of the question is slightly at a tangent to the main question and answer, Secretary for Health and Welfare. If you do not have the answer readily, would you be prepared to supply it in writing?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr Deputy President, I will attempt to answer the
question raised by Dr HUANG. As regards the provision of facilities to assist people to take examinations, in fact in the Nursing Board there is a CENTOHK Scheme where nurses who have been trained outside Hong Kong will have the opportunity to undergo training. As regards doctors whose degrees are unregistrable in Hong Kong, there will also be the opportunity, when they sit the Licentiate Examination, of assistance from the two universities.
DR LEONG CHE-HUNG: Mr Deputy President, I refer to paragraph (a) of the answer by the Secretary, which basically implies that there are not that many vacancies existing amongst doctors. Will the Administration therefore confirm or otherwise the recent rumours that doctors who have completed their compulsory housemanship may not be able to find employment in either the Department of Health or the Hospital Authority? And if so, will the Administration conduct an in-depth study of manpower projections of doctors to rationalize the intake of medical students by the two medical schools in the future?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr Deputy President, as I mentioned in my main reply, there are 121 and 17 vacancies in the Hospital Authority and the Department of Health respectively for the medical graduates. The recruitment policy of the Hospital Authority is an internal matter for the Authority. My understanding is that, as in previous years, a majority of the graduates will be employed to meet service requirements. Job opportunities are also available in the two universities and in the private sector. Some of the graduates may also decide to go overseas for further studies. As regards the long-term assessment for medical manpower, the Government will remain to be advised by the newly established Health and Medical Development Advisory Committee on the long-term manpower needs and projections.
Budget revision
6. MR SZETO WAH asked (in Cantonese): As the actual surplus at the closing of the 6. MR SZETO WAH asked (in Cantonese): As the actual surplus at the closing of the Government's accounts for the last financial year is greatly in excess of the original forecast made at the time when the budget for this financial year was prepared, will the Government inform this Council whether the budget for this financial year will be revised to increase the personal tax allowances and provisions for social services (including social welfare and education services)?
FINANCIAL SECRETARY: Mr Deputy President, as a result of the higher than expected surplus for l99l-92, we were in the fortunate position of being able to forgo one of the measures which would otherwise have been necessary to raise the revenue that we need to meet our commitments over the coming years. I refer of course to the increase in general rates.
The l992 Budget took account of our expenditure commitments, the need The l992 Budget took account of our expenditure commitments, the need for adequate reserves and the possibility of changing fiscal and economic circumstances over the period up to l996-97. The combined effect of this year's additional surplus and the decision to defer a general rates increase is that our medium term fiscal position remains unchanged. I do not therefore have any intention of making changes to the l992 Budget, which has already been approved and put into effect.
On the two specific areas mentioned by Mr SZETO, I will only comment that I have already given assurances on increasing personal tax allowances in my next Budget, and that we have already provided for significant real increases in expenditure on social services.
MR SZETO WAH (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, the Secretary mentioned in the third paragraph of his reply that "we have already provided for significant real increases in expenditure on social services". Will the Administration inform this Council what "significant real increases" means and how much the total expenditure of these
"significant real increases" is?
FINANCIAL SECRETARY: Mr Deputy President, the figures are, of course, a matter of public record. For convenience, the real growth in recurrent expenditure in some key areas, for example, are: 4% real increase in welfare for 1992-93; 9% real increase in health; and 5% real increase in education. Those are all figures given in the Budget speech. The figures, in dollars, are again a matter of public record.
MR ERIC LI (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, as far as I know, when the Secretary prepared this year's Budget, he relied on the information up to January and underestimated the revenue from land sales and stamp duty. In reality, prices of
stock and property have been moving upward incessantly. When the Budget for 1992-93 was announced, were there provisions for increases in his projection that property prices would soar to over $5,000 per sq ft, and stock index would rocket to 6 000 points? When the Secretary revises the budget at the end of this year, if the revenue yields far exceed that of his projection, will consideration be given to increasing expenditure on various services?
FINANCIAL SECRETARY: Mr Deputy President, the question of course relates to the out-turn for the previous financial year, not the out-turn for the current financial year; and I have already answered that question.
MR GILBERT LEUNG (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, the Secretary indicated in the second paragraph of his reply about "defer(ring) a general rates increase", and that would not be the same as "foregoing a rates increase". Will the Secretary inform this Council of the time he intends to effect a rates increase, and also of the level of increase?
FINANCIAL SECRETARY: Yes, I am happy, Mr Deputy President, to reassure Members that I have no view on the question of whether or not there should be any further rates increases in the future.
MR CHEUNG MAN-KWONG (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, given that Members relied on the financial figures provided at the time of the Budget debate to decide how they would vote, and that the Administration has now revised the surplus figure and the sum is that staggering, will the Administration inform this Council whether the
current practice of having a revised estimate after the Budget has been put to vote is sound, whether Members may change their vote afterwards, and how the Administration would deal with that?
FINANCIAL SECRETARY: Mr Deputy President, I do not know which question to answer? DEPUTY PRESIDENT: You can perhaps confine yourself to the first question only. Have
you got the first question? It is just the first part of the question that you are asked to reply to.
FINANCIAL SECRETARY: Mr Deputy President, I think, as a matter of fact, the revision was announced by me before the voting on the revenue measures. But it is true that it was after the voting on the expenditure measures, if my memory is correct there. But of course there is no question of re-voting.
MR FRED LI (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, the Secretary just now mentioned that there would be 4% real increase in welfare. In view of the huge surplus, will the Administration consider foregoing the original plan of reducing social welfare expenditure by 2.2% and 2.6% in 1992-93 and 1993-94 respectively?
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I do not think that really arises out of the main question and answer, Mr Fred LI.
DR HUANG CHEN-YA (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, the Secretary once informed this Council that according to calculations, inflation fuelled by the airport projects would be at 11% whereas the Medium Range Forecast put it at 8.5%. Could the Secretary inform this Council whether it would be possible for him to base the calculation of the real growth of welfare expenditure on the 11% inflation rate of the Airport Core Programme?
FINANCIAL SECRETARY: Mr Deputy President, I find it difficult to trace any connection between what is being assumed for inflation on the Airport Core Programme and the question which I have been asked to address which relates to expenditure decisions taken in the last Budget.
Written answers to questions
Harassment of tenants
7. DR HUANG CHEN-YA asked: In view of the frequent occurrence of incidents in which 7. DR HUANG CHEN-YA asked: In view of the frequent occurrence of incidents in which occupants of private premises are forced to vacate their premises by unlawful means, will the Government inform this Council:
(a) how many such cases were reported to the police in the past twelve months; (a) how many such cases were reported to the police in the past twelve months; and
(b) whether new cases are dealt with by the relevant authority differently from (b) whether new cases are dealt with by the relevant authority differently from those cases in which repeated harassment has been reported; if so, what different procedures are applied and how are they different; if not, why not?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, there is no offence, per se, of "forcing occupants of private premises to vacate their premises by unlawful means." Such incidents may in the first instance be reported as "criminal damage", "criminal intimidation", and "burglary". The fact that unlawful means are used to force the occupants to vacate a private premises may not be apparent at the time of reporting to the police. Statistics relating to such cases are therefore not readily available.
Each case is dealt with based on its own circumstances. If a clear case of harassment is established, the police will first conduct preliminary investigations. If there is evidence that a crime has been committed, a full investigation will be carried out and if necessary criminal charges laid. The police will also assist in the investigation of harassment cases where the parties involved are un-cooperative or believed to be connected to triads.
In handling disputes between landlords and tenants involving alleged harassment and illegal eviction, the police officer will bring to the attention of the concerned parties the provisions on landlord harassment of tenants under section 70B of the Landlord and Tenant (Consolidation) Ordinance. This section provides that any person who unlawfully evicts the tenant or sub-tenant of occupation of any premises, or commits any act to interfere with the peace or comfort of the tenant or sub-tenant, is liable to a fine of $500,000 and imprisonment for 12 months on subsequent
convictions. The court may also require him to compensate the tenant or sub-tenant.
Where no criminal activity is involved, the Rating and Valuation Department will Where no criminal activity is involved, the Rating and Valuation Department will try to resolve the dispute by mediation and advice.
Noise pollution caused by piling works
8. DR HUANG CHEN-YA asked: In view of serious noise pollution caused by certain 8. DR HUANG CHEN-YA asked: In view of serious noise pollution caused by certain piling works, will the Government inform this Council:
(a) how many complaints were received by the Environmental Protection Department (a) how many complaints were received by the Environmental Protection Department and the Police Force in 1991/92 about noise pollution caused by piling works; how many prosecutions were successfully brought against the contractors concerned; and
(b) what legislation and measures are available to control piling activities at what legislation and measures are available to control piling activities at construction sites in residential areas; whether there are any plans to review the relevant legislation and measures?
SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS: Mr Deputy President, in 1991, 19 complaints of noise pollution caused by piling works were received by the Environmental Protection Department and the Royal Hong Kong Police Force. Of these, four were dealt with by the police, and 15 by the Environmental Protection Department. Six successful prosecutions were brought against contractors for non-compliance with permit conditions. The remaining 13 cases were the subject of verbal warnings and the contractors took immediate steps to remedy the breach of the permits. 478 construction noise permits were issued for percussive piling activities in 1991.
Section 6 of the Noise Control Ordinance, enacted in 1989, provides for the control of piling activities. Such activities are prohibited between 7 pm and 7 am on weekdays or at any time on general holidays, and are restricted to several periods of operation on weekdays. Construction Noise Permits are issued by the Environmental Protection Department for percussive piling activities carried out on weekdays. These permits restrict such piling to three, five or 12 hours of operation depending on the proximity of noise sensitive receivers, such as domestic premises and schools. In built-up urban and residential areas, percussive piling is restricted to three hours during the less sensitive periods of the day, namely between 8 am and 9 am, between 12.30 pm and 1.30 pm and between 5 pm and 6 pm.
In order to further improve controls on percussive piling activities, the Environmental Protection Department is liaising with the building industry and relevant government departments to promote the use of quieter piling methods in the
urban areas. In addition, from October 1992 onwards, it is proposed to stipulate in the general specifications of contracts for civil engineering works (to be issued by the Works Branch) that contractors should regularly conduct noise monitoring at construction sites where piling works are carried out.
Thailand's political unrest
9. MR LAU CHIN-SHEK asked: In view of the present politica 9. MR LAU CHIN-SHEK asked: In view of the present politica MR LAU CHIN-SHEK asked: In view of the present political unrest in Thailand, will l unrest in Thailand, will the Government inform this Council whether measures have been taken to ensure the safety of Hong Kong residents currently touring or working in Thailand? If so, what are these measures?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, we have been closely monitoring the situation in Thailand via the British Embassy in Bangkok. With the outbreak of violence, the Immigration Department issued a press release advising people to avoid certain areas in Bangkok and to travel there only for essential visits. The Department also set up two hotlines to answer enquiries. Callers were given advice on proposed visits to Thailand and where Hong Kong residents in distress there could get help. The Department was also ready to handle requests for assistance from relatives of Hong Kong residents travelling or working in Thailand. So far, no enquiries or requests for assistance have been received.
Inland Revenue Department's computer system
10. MR ERIC LI asked: At the Legislative Council Sitt 10. MR ERIC LI asked: At the Legislative Council Sitt MR ERIC LI asked: At the Legislative Council Sitting on 6 May 1992, the Finan ing on 6 May 1992, the Financial Secretary indicated that the actual surplus for 1991-92 exceeded the amount of $14 billion as announced earlier by $6 billion. In view of the fact that the Inland Revenue Department has already had a computer system to calculate the revenue
generated from direct taxes such as Salaries Tax and Profits Tax, and that the last financial year had actually ended when the Financial Secretary gave his concluding speech on the 1992-93 Budget Debate on 1 April 1992, will the Government inform this Council:
(a) whether Inland Revenue Department's computer system has been inefficient in (a) whether Inland Revenue Department's computer system has been inefficient in calculating the revenue generated from direct taxes resulting in a time lag of three
months in calculating the surplus for the last financial year; and
(b) if so, whether consideration will be given to further enhancing the (b) if so, whether consideration will be given to further enhancing the efficiency of IRD's computer system?
SECRETARY FOR THE TREASURY: Mr Deputy President, the Inland Revenue Department computer system is perfectly adequate for the purpose of calculating the revenue generated from direct taxes.
Only about 20% of the difference of about $6 billion between the estimated budget surplus mentioned by the Financial Secretary in his Budget speech, and the surplus according to the "first closing" of the Government's accounts, was attributable to increased tax revenue collected by the Inland Revenue Department. The largest
contribution to the Inland Revenue Department's "share" of the additional surplus was Stamp Duty (about $670 million).
The estimated surplus announced in the Budget speech was based on the revised The estimated surplus announced in the Budget speech was based on the revised estimates of revenue and expenditure made at the end of January. The Inland Revenue Department had then to make an estimate of the total tax revenue it would collect in the following two months, up to the close of the financial year. In the case of Stamp Duty, collections for March turned out to be exceptionally high because of the buoyant property and stock markets.
Kindergarten places
11. MR NG MING-YUM asked: Will the Government inform 11. MR NG MING-YUM asked: Will the Government inform MR NG MING-YUM asked: Will the Government inform this Council: this Council:
(a) of the annual provision of kindergarten places and the actual enrolment (a) of the annual provision of kindergarten places and the actual enrolment figures over the past five years, and the size of population of children in the corresponding age group;
(b) whether the Government had received any complaints fr (b) whether the Government had received any complaints fr whether the Government had received any complaints from parents about om parents about insufficient kindergarten places in their respective districts and if so, how the Government dealt with these complaints;
(c) whether the existing Fee Remission Scheme for kindergartens will be adjus (c) whether the existing Fee Remission Scheme for kindergartens will be adjusted,
and if so, what criteria will be followed; and
(d) what annual provision will be allocated for the pre-primary education in the (d) what annual provision will be allocated for the pre-primary education in the next five years and what the average rate of assistance to each pupil is?
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER: Mr Deputy President, the answers to Mr NG's questions are as follows.
(a) The provision of kindergarten places, actual enrolment and size of the (a) The provision of kindergarten places, actual enrolment and size of the corresponding age group as at September of each of the past five years were:
1987 1988 1987 1988 1989 1990 1991
Number of places 239 440 Number of places 239 440 239 440 234 719 234 719 234 719 224 267 224 267 224 267 224 718 223 376 223 376
Enrolment 225 108 Enrolment 225 108 225 108 214 703 214 703 214 703 201 750 201 750 201 750 196 466 196 466 196 466 193 658 193 658
Population aged 3-5 257 900 Population aged 3-5 257 900 257 900 247 200 247 200 247 200 236 200 236 200 236 200 227 200 227 200 227 200 225 000 225 000
(b) The Education Department has not received any complaints from parents about (b) The Education Department has not received any complaints from parents about insufficient kindergarten places in their respective districts.
(c) The Kindergarten Fee Remission Scheme was introduced in the 1990-91 school (c) The Kindergarten Fee Remission Scheme was introduced in the 1990-91 school year and provided with additional funding in 1991-92. The Government aims to bring it more in line with the scheme for senior secondary pupils by relaxing the criteria for eligibility over the next few years. At the same time, the Education Commission is expected to propose further improvements in its fifth report due for publication in June.
(d) The present and forecast provisions for kindergarten education (d) The present and forecast provisions for kindergarten education The present and forecast provisions for kindergarten education for the for the 1992-93 to 1996-97 financial years, not including any additional provisions which may result from the improvements in (c) above, are as follows (at March 1992 prices):
92-93 93-94 92-93 93-94 94-95 95-96 96-97
$Mn $Mn $Mn $Mn $Mn $Mn $Mn
Rent and rates 112.5 Rent and rates 112.5 112.5 112.5 112.5 112.5
reimbursement to
non-profit-making
kindergartens
Kindergarten Fee 25.6 Kindergarten Fee 25.6 27.3 28.1 28.1 28.1
Remission Scheme
138.1 139.8 138.1 139.8 140.6 140.6 140.6
==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ====
The average rate of assistance to each pupil under the Kindergarten Fee Remission Scheme as at April 1992 was:
Average rate of assistance
per pupil per month
Pupil attending whole-day class $460 Pupil attending whole-day class $460
Pupil attending half-day class $209 Pupil attending half-day class $209
Training for retail industry employees
12. MR HOWARD YOUNG asked: Having regard to the statistics published by the Hong Kong 12. MR HOWARD YOUNG asked: Having regard to the statistics published by the Hong Kong Tourist Association that shopping accounted for over 50% of the tourism receipts in 1991, will the Government inform this Council:
(a) of the plans to (a) of the plans to of the plans to meet training needs in the retail industry; meet training needs in the retail industry; (b) what resources are set aside for this training; and (b) what resources are set aside for this training; and
(c) to what extent the Vocational Training Council will be playing a role? (c) to what extent the Vocational Training Council will be playing a role?
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER: Mr Deputy President, the answers to Mr YOUNG's questions are as follows:
(a) The Government provides training through the Vocational Training Council (a) The Government provides training through the Vocational Training Council (VTC) to meet the needs of the retail industry. In 1992-93 the VTC plans to provide
for the retail sector 2 140 full-time and 980 part-time places in the relevant training centre and 160 one-year full-time and 60 two-year part-time certificate places in the technical institutes. At the request of the Provisional Retraining Fund Board, the VTC will soon put on a retraining course on basic retail sales techniques for 120 local workers. Such provisions serve to complement the training provided by the Hong Kong Tourist Association (HKTA) and individual employers. For example, the HKTA provides training for in-service tour operators and guides, restaurant personnel and sales personnel. For the retail sector, the HKTA conducts around 26 short courses a year, providing mainly customer service oriented training to some 650 participants who are mostly employees of the retail trade members of the HKTA.
(b) For the financial year 1992-93, the VTC has set aside resources in the order (b) For the financial year 1992-93, the VTC has set aside resources in the order of $10 million (at 1991 prices) for the training described in subparagraph (a) above. We are also aware that the HKTA, which derives most of its income from a government subvention, spends about $1.4 million annually on retail trade training.
(c) The main role of the Vocational Training Council is to advise on the meas (c) The main role of the Vocational Training Council is to advise on the measures required to ensure a comprehensive system of technical education and industrial training suited to the developing needs of Hong Kong and to put in place such measures as are approved by the Government. To this end, the VTC has operated relevant courses under its Wholesale/Retail and Import/Export Trades Training Centre and eight technical institutes. Regular manpower surveys are conducted by the VTC to assess the training needs of the industry.
Signage at Kai Tak
13. MR HOWARD YOUNG asked: Will the Government inform this Council whether action 13. MR HOWARD YOUNG asked: Will the Government inform this Council whether action can be taken to improve the signage outside the departure hall at Kai Tak Airport to facilitate vehicles dropping off passengers closer to their check-in counter, thus easing pedestrian flow within the airport?
SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES: Mr Deputy President, action can and will be taken to improve signage outside the departure hall at Kai Tak. This is a problem which has been given much thought over the years, but the physical constraints of the departure hall frontage, combined with the large number of airlines which will require to be identified at each dropping off point have made it difficult to design a workable solution.
The approach which is now being pursued is to indicate the location of check-in islands by means of reference letters displayed along the frontage of the departure hall. Departing passengers will be guided as to which airlines operate from which check-in islands by means of prominent signs along the approach roads to the airport.
The current refurbishment of the departure hall has involved some re-allocation of airlines to different check-in islands. Improvements to the signage outside the departure hall will therefore be implemented as soon as possible after the completion of this refurbishment exercise.
Land resumption at Wing Lok Street
14. DR YEUNG SUM asked: Regarding the deci 14. DR YEUNG SUM asked: Regarding the deci DR YEUNG SUM asked: Regarding the decision to resume land at Wing Lok sion to resume land at Wing Lok Street/Queen's Road Central for the implementation of a development scheme by the Land Development Corporation, will the Government inform this Council:
(a) what effort has been made by the Corporation to negotiate with t (a) what effort has been made by the Corporation to negotiate with t what effort has been made by the Corporation to negotiate with the affected he affected owners for an acceptable price for their properties;
(b) what the price offered by the Corporation to the property owners was; and (b) what the price offered by the Corporation to the property owners was; and
(c) whether the price offered would be sufficient for shop owners to purchase (c) whether the price offered would be sufficient for shop owners to purchase shop premises of similar sizes in the locality so that they can carry on their business in the area?
SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS: Mr Deputy President, the implementation of the Land Development Corporation's proposals at Wing Lok Street/Queen's Road Central required the acquisition of 66 private interests. The Corporation and its agents started to acquire these interests in mid-1989 by making written offers to, and discussions with, the owners. The extent of the negotiations varied according to the response of individual property owners.
The purchase offers made by the LDC were based on valuations made by an independent firm of chartered surveyors and supported by a second opinion obtained from a different firm, plus an added amount for incentives. The Director of Buildings and Lands confirmed the offers were not less than the current market value of the property
interests.
Notwithstanding the efforts of the Corporation to secure ownership of the interests by agreement, 30 out of the original 66 interests remained to be acquired after almost three years of negotiations. Some owners simply refused to enter into discussions with the LDC, some counter-demanded excessive prices, and some had title problems. The LDC also invited the owners to find their own valuers to assess the value of the properties, with professional fees to be covered by the eventual purchase amount, but this came to no avail. In order to enable the redevelopment scheme to proceed, the Governor in Council approved the resumption of the outstanding interests in April 1992.
Details of the offers made by the Corporation and counter-claims made are private to the parties concerned and it would be inappropriate to publicize them without their consent.
As regards non-domestic premises, the Corporation had to assess business losses As regards non-domestic premises, the Corporation had to assess business losses or disturbance on the basis of information provided by the individual businesses. Much therefore depended on the co-operation of the business owners. On the basis of available information, the Corporation's offers for non-domestic premises,
including shops, were not less than the current market value of the interests compared with evidence of sales of similar premises in similar locations and having regard to age, tenure and the nature of the business carried on or, where appropriate, the redevelopment value of the site, whichever was the higher. These amounts should enable the affected shop owners to purchase shop premises of similar trading
potential.
It should be added that on resumption, the normal compensation terms in gover It should be added that on resumption, the normal compensation terms in government clearances apply. If the owners remain dissatisfied, they have the right to refer the valuation assessment to the Lands Tribunal for a determination.
Area Committees
15. REV FUNG CHI-WOOD asked: Will the Administration inform this Counc 15. REV FUNG CHI-WOOD asked: Will the Administration inform this Counc REV FUNG CHI-WOOD asked: Will the Administration inform this Council which il which districts apart from Tai Po and North Districts are without area committees; what are the reasons for not forming area committees in these districts; whether Government has any plans to establish area committees in these districts; if not, what is the
reason for not doing so?
SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS: Mr Deputy President, Area Committees were first formed in 1972 primarily to promote public participation in the Keep Hong Kong Clean Campaign and Fight Violent Crime Campaign. They evolved later to become an additional channel for advising the Administration on matters affecting the well-being of local
residents. They were formed only when there was a perceived need to supplement existing channels of consultation within a district.
At present, Area Committees exist in all the districts except North and Tai Po. At present, Area Committees exist in all the districts except North and Tai Po. In these two districts, where many areas are still predominantly rural, the Rural Committees provide a very effective channel of communication between the Government and local residents, including both the indigenous villagers as well as new town residents. In addition, there is a well balanced geographical representation on the district boards and their committees. Furthermore, other local advisory committees such as the District Fight Crime Committee, the Civic Education Campaign Co
ordinating Committee and the Summer Youth Programme Co-ordinating Committee comprise of members who come from a wide spectrum of social background and interests. Many of them are representatives from local Owners' Corporations and Mutual Aid Committees.
Because the channels of communication between the Administration and the local residents are already effective and adequate in North and Tai Po, there has been no need to establish Area Committees in these districts, nor are there any plans to form Area Committees in the near future. The situation will be kept under review.
Control of signboards
16. MRS PEGGY LAM asked: Will the Government inform this Council: 16. MRS PEGGY LAM asked: Will the Government inform this Council:
(a) whether any legislation is in place to (a) whether any legislation is in place to whether any legislation is in place to regulate the sizes and shapes of regulate the sizes and shapes of sign-boards occupying public spaces; and to ensure that their contents are related to the business being operated, that such sign-boards are hung up only with the approval of the authorities and after the payment of licence fees, and that they are removed once the business operations have been wound up or moved to another location;
(b) if so, which Departments are now responsible for the control and subsequent (b) if so, which Departments are now responsible for the control and subsequent removal of the sign-boards; how effective such control is;
(c) if not, what the reasons are; what measures the Government will take so that (c) if not, what the reasons are; what measures the Government will take so that those untidy sign-boards will not become eyesores?
SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS: Mr Deputy President,
(a) Approval for the erection of signboards is req (a) Approval for the erection of signboards is req Approval for the erection of signboards is required from the Land Authority uired from the Land Authority if the conditions of the land lease would be contravened or if the sign would encroach upon government land. The content of signboards may be controlled under the conditions of the land lease, the Control of Obscene and Indecent Articles Ordinance, the
Objectionable Publications Ordinance, the Smoking (Public Health) Ordinance and the Undesirable Medical Advertisements Ordinance; but there is no requirement that the content must relate to any particular business function.
At present, there is no statutory control on the size and shape of At present, there is no statutory control on the size and shape of advertisement signboards as such. The Administration's primary concern is in relation to the safety of overhanging signboards. Where signboards pose a threat to public safety, they are removed either by the owners themselves or, where necessary, by the Buildings Ordinance Office (BOO) of the Buildings and Lands Department.
(b) Under the Public Health and Municipal Services Ordinance, the Director of (b) Under the Public Health and Municipal Services Ordinance, the Director of Buildings and Lands has the power to remove or to render safe signboards which are considered dangerous or likely to become dangerous. As part of its enforcement activities on building safety, staff of the BOO seek out dangerous signs on a daily basis as well as relying on notification through public complaints. Since April 1987 (when the BOO took over the control of dangerous signs), 5 682 notices have been served on sign owners and 65% of these signs have been removed voluntarily. The remaining signs were removed by the Government Contractor on default by the owners. Objectionable signs are removed by the police under the Objectionable Publications Ordinance.
(c) The Director of Buildings and Lands is empowered by the Public Health and (c) The Director of Buildings and Lands is empowered by the Public Health and Municipal Services Ordinance to deal with dangerous signs. A full system of control, erection and maintenance is not in place because it would involve substantial resources which would not be commensurate with the degree of risk involved and
unlikely to be recoverable through charges. Signs which are untidy but do not pose a public safety hazard are tolerated as their removal on aesthetic grounds could, again, not command priority for resources. Nevertheless, building owners, under the Multi-storey Buildings (Owners Incorporation) Ordinance, may do anything necessary to enforce obligations contained in the deed of mutual covenant for the control of their building, including the removal of unsightly or abandoned signs.
Special Industries Area in Tuen Mun
17. MR NG MING-YUM asked: With regard to the Governmen 17. MR NG MING-YUM asked: With regard to the Governmen MR NG MING-YUM asked: With regard to the Government's proposed plan to develop t's proposed plan to develop a large special industrial zone and construct an inland terminal depot in Area 38 and Area 47 of Tuen Mun respectively, will the Government inform this Council whether any effort has been made to assess the impact of such developments on the environment and the already serious traffic problem in the district; if so, what the findings are; and if not, why not?
SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS: Mr Deputy President, the Administration commissioned consultants to investigate the feasibility of developing a Special Industries Area (SIA) and a River Trade Terminal (RTT) at Tuen Mun. The initial environmental impact assessment has shown that, if appropriate mitigation measures are taken and modern standards of pollution control are applied, the site is suitable for the purposes described. The development will not have an unacceptable environmental impact on the residential areas of Tuen Mun to the east or the marine environment off the new reclamation. While the traffic noise problem faced by the occupants of some residential and school buildings in the area may be worsened by further development in Tuen Mun West, this will not be attributable to the development in Area 38 alone.
The environmental mitigation measures recommended in the study include the The environmental mitigation measures recommended in the study include the reprovisioning and extension of the submarine outfall and the emergency by-pass of the Pillar Point Sewage Treatment Plant, and the construction of a by-pass along the Castle Peak foothills between Butterfly Estate and Wong Chu Road to reduce traffic noise near the residential areas along Lung Mun Road. In addition, future operators at the SIA will be subject to separate, project specific and detailed environmental impact assessments at the project planning stage.
The transport implications assessed under the study indicate that the proposed The transport implications assessed under the study indicate that the proposed developments would impact mainly on Lung Mun Road, Wong Chu Road and Tuen Mun Road eastbound towards Tsuen Wan as well as northbound towards Yuen Long. Improvement measures which should have been completed before the SIA and RTT are fully developed include:
(a) dualling of the section of Lung Mun Road between Pillar Point and the wes (a) dualling of the section of Lung Mun Road between Pillar Point and the western part of Area 38, scheduled to commence in early 1994 for completion by early 1996; and
(b) improving grade-separated interchanges at key junctions, including the ones mproving grade-separated interchanges at key junctions, including the ones at Wong Chu Road/Lung Mun Road and Wong Chu Road/Tuen Mun Road. These improvement works will start in early 1994 and be implemented in stages over five years.
The long-term external transport implications of the development of Areas 38 and The long-term external transport implications of the development of Areas 38 and 47 are being investigated in detail under the Tuen Mun Port Development Study. A longer-term improvement will provide a by-pass from Wong Chu Road to the part of Lung Mun Road south of Melody Garden. This project is scheduled to commence in early 1994 and be completed by 1999. This, together with the Route 3 Country Park Section, should provide effective relief for Tuen Mun Road.
Hong Kong's capital share in the Asian Development Bank
18. MR DAVID LI asked: At present, Hong Kong has a 0.60% capital share and a 0.86% R DAVID LI asked: At present, Hong Kong has a 0.60% capital share and a 0.86% voting share in the Asian Development Bank (ADB), whereas Taiwan, for example, has shares of 1.19% and 1.34%, respectively. Has the Government considered increasing the territory's capital share and voting share in the ADB?
SECRETARY FOR MONETARY AFFAIRS: Mr Deputy President, the size of a member's subscription to the Bank's capital stock is basically determined by reference to a member's economic capacity as reflected by Gross Domestic Product figures adjusted for population, tax revenues and exports on a weighted basis. Whilst there are no present plans to increase Hong Kong's capital share and voting power in the Bank the occasion may arise in a year or so's time in the context of the next General Capital Increase to replenish the Bank's capital stock.
In the meantime, the Government is keeping under review other means of increasing Hong Kong's participation in and support for the activities of the Bank. The Government will shortly be approaching the Finance Committee of this Council for approval to contribute to the fifth replenishment of the Asian Development Fund, which is used for loans to the neediest developing country members of the Bank.
Financial assistance from the Asian Development Bank
19. MR DAVID LI asked: What steps has the Government taken to solicit financial a 19. MR DAVID LI asked: What steps has the Government taken to solicit financial and/or non-financial support from the Asian Development Bank (ADB) for the various infrastructure initiatives which comprise the Port and Airport Development Strategy (PADS)?
SECRETARY FOR MONETARY AFFAIRS: Mr Deputy President, the Government has been in informal contact with the Asian Development Bank since early 1992 to explore the possibility of the Bank participating in the financing of some of the PADS projects. These informal soundings are still in progress.
AIDS protection for local sportsmen
20. DR LAM KUI-CHUN asked: Will the Government inform this Council what measures are 20. DR LAM KUI-CHUN asked: Will the Government inform this Council what measures are available or will be available to protect local sportsmen from contracting AIDS through injury while participating in body contact sports in Hong Kong or in international sports competitions, such as the forthcoming Olympic Games?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr Deputy President, AIDS is normally transmitted through sexual intercourse, blood and from an infected mother to her child. It is not transmitted through saliva, sweat, tears, urine, swimming pool water, communal bath water, toilets, food or drinking water.
In theory, there is a possible risk of transmission when one infected athlete In theory, there is a possible risk of transmission when one infected athlete with a bleeding wound or a skin lesion comes into bodily contact with another athlete who also happens to have a skin lesion or exposed mucous membrane that could serve as a possible portal for entry of the human immunodeficiency virus. In practice,
the risk is very low. Furthermore, there is no risk if one party does not suffer bleeding wounds or other skin lesions.
Still, for guidance to sportsmen, the World Health Organization has developed a Consensus Statement in consultation with international sports associations including the International Olympic Committee. The advice includes medical counselling for infected sportsmen, interruption of sports for immediate treatment of wounds and prompt reporting of skin lesions to responsible personnel. These procedures are part of the general hygiene and first aid practice for all sports and are observed worldwide. According to the World Health Organization, there is no medical or public health justification for testing or screening for AIDS prior to participation in sports activities.
Local sports organizations are encouraged to consult the Department of Health for advice and health education on AIDS.
First Reading of Bills
MAGISTRATES (AMENDMENT) (NO. 2) BILL 1992
POLICE FORCE (AMENDMENT) BILL 1992
GOVERNMENT FLYING SERVICE BILL
BUILDINGS (AMENDMENT) (NO. 2) BILL 1992
CHIROPRACTORS REGISTRATION BILL
Bills read the First time and ordered to be set down for Second Reading pursuant to Standing Order 41(3).
Second Reading of Bills
MAGISTRATES (AMENDMENT) (NO. 2) BILL 1992
THE ATTORNEY GENERAL moved the Second Reading of: "A Bill to amend the Magistrates
Ordinance."
He said: Mr Deputy President, I move that the Magistrates (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 1992 be read a Second time.
The Criminal Procedure Ordinance provides for orders which may be made by the Court of Appeal upon criminal appeal from the High Court or from the District Court. Where an appellant succeeds upon a technical point only, the Court of Appeal may affirm the conviction if it considers that no miscarriage of justice has actually occurred.
In the case of criminal appeals from a magistrate, the Magistrates Ordinance gives the appeal judge a residual discretion to "..... make such other order as he thinks just". For many years it was assumed that this permitted the judge to refuse appeals where there was no miscarriage of justice, on a similar basis to that allowed in the case of District Court and High Court criminal appeals.
But in December 1988, in the case of Fai Ma Trading Co. Ltd. v L S Lai (Industry But in December 1988, in the case of Fai Ma Trading Co. Ltd. v L S Lai (Industry Officer) the Court of Appeal held that this assumption was wrong. The Court reached its conclusions reluctantly, and recommended that the law be amended so as to permit the rejection of appeals made on technical grounds. The Court said that the
expeditious and fair dispatch of appeals from magistrates in Hong Kong would be greatly facilitated.
As suggested by the Court of Appeal, the proposed Bill adds the proviso contained in section 83(1) of the Criminal Procedure Ordinance to section 119(1)(d) of the Magistrates Ordinance.
High Court Judges engaged in criminal work have been canvassed and consider that there is a pressing need for amendment. The current law allows appeals to be brought and succeed on technical issues, and compels judges to order new trials with the attendant costs of time and money.
The Chief Magistrate and Director of Legal Aid also support the proposal in the Bill.
The Bar Association and the Law Society have expressed concern that such a pr The Bar Association and the Law Society have expressed concern that such a proviso could operate unfairly against an accused person. They feel that a magistrate's record may be insufficient for an Appeal Judge to identify potential miscarriages of justice when considering the use of the proposed proviso. I have given the legal profession's
concern very careful consideration, but I am satisfied that judges will have no such difficulty.
The Magistrates Ordinance obliges magistrates to take, in writing, a full minute of the evidence, and objections to and rulings on the admissibility of evidence. If a defendant appeals, the magistrate must supply a statement of his findings on the facts and other grounds of his decision.
Furthermore, pursuant to the proposed amendment, a judge will only be able to dismiss an appeal if he is satisfied that no miscarriage of justice actually occurred by the verdict of the magistrate. In practice, appellants are already allowed considerable latitude to explain alleged miscarriages which they claim are not apparent from the record or the magistrate's statement of findings.
I would like to point out that in the manner of recording a case, the Magistrates Court does not differ from the District Court. Like magistrates, District Judges take their own handwritten notes. A proviso applies in appeals from the District Court, and is administered successfully by the Court of Appeal.
I believe that judges will be well able to identify any case where a miscarriage of justice could occur by the use of the proposed proviso; and I have regard to the fact that the amendment does no more than to restore to judges a power which they had exercised for many years prior to the Fai Ma Trading case. The proposed Bill will assist in the better administration of justice.
Mr Deputy President, I move that the debate on this motion be now adjourned. Mr Deputy President, I move that the debate on this motion be now adjourned. Question on the adjournment proposed, put and agreed to.
POLICE FORCE (AMENDMENT) BILL 1992
THE SECRETARY FOR SECURITY moved the Second Reading of: "A Bill to amend the Police Force Ordinance."
He said: Mr Deputy President, I move that the Police Force (Amendment) Bill 1992 be read a Second time.
The Bill seeks to amend the Police Force Ordinance to ensure that the Ordinance will be compatible with the Bill of Rights Ordinance and the Letters Patent. The provisions of the Bill seek to ensure that an individual's right not to be subjected to arbitrary arrest or detention, or unlawful interference with his privacy, is
protected in the exercise of powers under the Police Force Ordinance. The Police Force (Amendment) Bill specifies clearly the situations in which police powers to stop, search, detain and arrest can be exercised in order to remove uncertainty and to avoid the possible arbitrary exercise of powers.
The Bill provides that the power to arrest a person reasonably suspected of b The Bill provides that the power to arrest a person reasonably suspected of being guilty of an offence will exist if the offence is one for which the sentence is fixed by law or for which a person may be sentenced to any period of imprisonment. The power to arrest can also be exercised if it appears to the police officer that service of a summons is impracticable. The power to arrest a person who may be charged with any offence is replaced and restricted.
On the power to search an arrested person, the Bill provides that a police officer may search for and take possession of things which he reasonably suspects will be of value to the investigation of any offence that the person has committed or is reasonably suspected of having committed. The general power of search and seizure under a magistrate's warrant is amended along similar lines. In addition, a
magistrate may authorize the temporary detention of a person who possesses anything that may be seized and who, if not detained, might prejudice the purpose of the search.
The Bill provides that the power to stop and search can be exercised in two The Bill provides that the power to stop and search can be exercised in two scenarios. The first relates to a person found in a public place who acts in a suspicious manner. In such a case, a police officer may stop the person to demand that he produce proof of his identity, detain him for a reasonable period while the officer enquires if he is a suspected offender and, if necessary, search the person for anything that may present a danger to the officer. The second scenario relates to a person found in a public place who is suspected of having committed, or intending to commit, any offence. In such a case, a police officer has the same power to stop and detain as I have just outlined, and may also search the person for anything likely to be of value to the investigation of any offence that the person is suspected of having committed, or of intending to commit.
We believe the Bill strikes a sensible balance between the need for protection of individuals' rights on the one hand and adequate powers for the police to fight
crime on the other.
In presenting this Bill today, I am conscious that comprehensive proposals on the whole area of law relating to arrest are expected from the Law Reform Commission within the next few months. This Bill is not intended to anticipate those proposals but merely to ensure as far as is possible in the interim that the Police Force
Ordinance is not inconsistent with the requirements of the Bill of Rights Ordinance.
The Law Reform Commission is still considering its conclusions but in broad terms the provisions of this Bill are not at odds with the approach favoured by the Commission. I think it fair to say that I expect the Commission's proposals to further advance the clarification and delineation of police powers begun in this Bill.
Members will recall that a fortnight ago, the Crimes (Amendment) Bill 1992, w Members will recall that a fortnight ago, the Crimes (Amendment) Bill 1992, which relates to loitering, was introduced into this Council. That Bill provides that a person commits the offence of loitering if he loiters in a public place with intent to commit an arrestable offence, that is, an offence exceeding 12 months imprisonment.
We believe the offences relevant to police powers of arrest and those which trigger the loitering offence should be different. In the former case, a person is arrested because a police officer has reasonable grounds to suspect that he is guilty of an offence. In the latter case, the loitering provision makes it a crime in certain circumstances merely to intend to commit an offence. It follows that the circumstances which trigger the arrest for the loitering offence should be more serious than those which trigger a wider general power of arrest.
Mr Deputy President, the Police Force Ordinance will become subject to the provisions of the Bill of Rights Ordinance on 8 June 1992. In the event that this Bill is not enacted before 8 June, I am already discussing with the Commissioner of Police how best to ensure that police officers are instructed to exercise their powers at present conferred under subsections 1 and 6 of section 50 in a way which accords with the proposed modifications of this Bill. These two subsections, in particular, present specific problems vis-a-vis the Bill of Rights.
The power of arrest conferred by subsection 1 of section 50 will be exercised in respect of offences for which there is a sentence fixed by law or a sentence of imprisonment and offences where it appears to the police officer that the service of a summons is impracticable; but not in respect of any offence as the law at present
permits.
Likewise, the wide powers of search contained in subsection 6 of section 50 will Likewise, the wide powers of search contained in subsection 6 of section 50 will be limited to searching for, and taking possession of, things that the police officer reasonably suspects will be of value to the investigation of the offence for which a person has been arrested.
Clearly it is important that this Bill is enacted as soon as possible. A prolonged period of uncertainty will be unhelpful to police officers on the streets as they seek to maintain the law. I understand that Members have, earlier this afternoon, established an ad hoc group to examine this Bill. I very much welcome this prompt action. May I assure Members that the Administration will work closely and urgently with the ad hoc group to explain the rationale behind these proposed amendments and to seek speedy enactment.
I move that the debate on this motion be now adjourned.
Question on the adjournment proposed, put and agreed to.
GOVERNMENT FLYING SERVICE BILL
THE SECRETARY FOR SECURITY moved the Second Reading of: "A Bill to establish a Government Flying Service and to provide for connected purposes."
He said: Mr Deputy President, I move that the Government Flying Service Bill 1992 be read a Second time.
The Government Flying Service will be a full-time civilian disciplined force performing the functions now carried out by the Royal Hong Kong Auxiliary Air Force (RHKAAF). This Bill will establish the Government Flying Service in its intended roles, provide a framework for the conduct of its membership and provide for
discipline. In this respect the Bill is similar to the legislation establishing the other disciplined services.
Before taking Members briefly through the more important features of the Bill I would like to explain why we intend to reconstitute the RHKAAF as a civilian disciplined force and to say a few words on its recent development.
The RHKAAF has its origins in 1949 as a part-time volunteer air defence squadron to provide local support to the Royal Air Force. In the event of a call-out in times of emergency it would come under the command of the Commander Royal Air Force in Hong Kong. The legislation which established the RHKAAF is essentially the same
legislation under which it operates to this day. However, its roles today are not military. It is staffed largely by full-time personnel supported by a small number of volunteers. These practical realities need to be reflected in the legislation under which it operates.
An important function of the RHKAAF is to provide air support to police operations. We believe it is essential that this role is performed by a disciplined force and we therefore propose that the legislation governing the Government Flying Service should establish it as a civilian disciplined force, like the police, Fire Services or Customs and Excise. This will reflect the existing reality under which RHKAAF members are paid under the General Disciplined Services pay scales. Arrangements for discipline will be modelled on the arrangements for the other disciplined services.
The RHKAAF provides flying services to the Hong Kong Government. Since 1986 it The RHKAAF provides flying services to the Hong Kong Government. Since 1986 it has undergone an expansion programme to ensure that it can act as the provider of all flying support to the police, including support to the police in their new role on the border, support for PTU, for anti-crime operations, and for the Anti-Smuggling Task Force. It also provides a medical evacuation service and a search and rescue capability at night and in bad weather. Last year, it operated 340 emergency medical evacuation flights, 125 search and rescue operations, including the major rescue of survivors from the capsized oil support barge DB 29 on 15 August 1991, when RHKAAF helicopters rescued 35 survivors. On the helicopter side, it operates three search and rescue and five general-purpose helicopters; these will be augmented by two larger trooping helicopters in January 1993. On the fixed-wing side it has two aircraft for air reconnaissance and search and rescue, one aircraft for air survey work and four small training aircraft. The latter are extensively used to train new pilots under a localization programme.
As a civilian organization the Government Flying Service will be bound by civil aviation legislation. We are currently completing all the formalities to make this transition: for example, to ensure that the aircrew, ground crew and aircraft will have appropriate civilian certification and to finalize, in conjunction with the Civil Aviation Department, the civil operating procedures for the Government Flying
Service. We anticipate all will be completed by 1 April 1993 which we intend should be the commencement of this Ordinance. I now turn to the Bill itself.
The Bill
Clause 3 establishes the Government Flying Service and its functions are set out in clause 5. These mirror the existing functions of the RHKAAF. Under clause 7(2) there is an overriding directive to ensure the safe operation of the Government Flying Service aircraft.
The administrative structure of the RHKAAF will be reviewed late this year when the new Controller (designate) of the Government Flying Service takes up his post. Funding for this post was approved by Finance Committee on 22 May 1992. We have not therefore specified in the legislation this administrative structure. The powers and duties of the Controller are set out in clause 7 of the Bill.
We propose that the Government Flying Service should continue to be able to call on the services of suitably trained auxiliaries. Clause 9 provides for the creation of an auxiliary section with the Governor as Commandant and a senior auxiliary member to be responsible to the Controller for the administration of the section. The
auxiliary members of the RHKAAF have performed sterling services to Hong Kong; indeed, very recently two auxiliary members were awarded the Queen's Commendation for Valuable Service in the Air Force for their part in the rescue operation of the survivors of the DB 29 incident. We believe that auxiliary members will continue to have an important role to play in the future.
In Parts III and IV, the Bill provides the parameters for discipline and the In Parts III and IV, the Bill provides the parameters for discipline and the operation of a welfare fund for those injured or killed on duty or who otherwise fall on hard times. The details of these regulations and of the general regulations under clause 18 will be gazetted at a later stage and, as subsidiary legislation, will be tabled in this Council.
Finally, Part VI of the Bill provides for the repeal of the Royal Hong Kong Auxiliary Air Force Ordinance and makes various transitional arrangements.
Mr Deputy President, I move that the debate on this motion be now adjourned. Mr Deputy President, I move that the debate on this motion be now adjourned. Question on the adjournment proposed, put and agreed to.
BUILDINGS (AMENDMENT) (NO. 2) BILL 1992
THE SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS moved the Second Reading of: "A Bill to amend the Buildings Ordinance."
He said: Mr Deputy President, I move the Second Reading of the Buildings (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 1992, the basic purpose of which is to improve building safety.
The Bill will help make owners more directly responsible for the maintenance and The Bill will help make owners more directly responsible for the maintenance and repair of their buildings by enabling the Building Authority to require an owner of a building in suspect condition to have it investigated to establish what remedial work is needed.
At present the Buildings Ordinance requires the Building Authority to specify At present the Buildings Ordinance requires the Building Authority to specify in an order the remedial work to be done when he considers a building dangerous or liable to become so. The Buildings Ordinance Office therefore has to conduct exhaustive surveys of suspect buildings so that their defects can be described before an order for repair work to be done is served on the owner. While the focus was on prewar buildings the workload of the Office was manageable. But there are now many postwar buildings which, largely as a result of poor maintenance, require survey and repair. To enable this to be done within a reasonable time frame, resources available in the private sector to carry out surveys need to be brought to bear to augment those of the BOO.
Since the prime responsibility for ensuring the proper maintenance and repair Since the prime responsibility for ensuring the proper maintenance and repair of buildings lies with their owners, the Bill proposes to empower the Building Authority to serve an order on the owner of a building which is in suspect condition, requiring him to appoint an authorized person to carry out detailed investigation of his building and to propose remedial work. Thereafter, the carrying out of the work will be ordered. If the owner fails to comply with the initial order, the Building Authority will be able to carry out the investigation work and recover the costs from the owner.
The Bill also seeks to give the Building Authority similar powers to deal with defective building drainage works.
In planning the division of building investigation work between the BOO and the private sector, we intend to take account of the ability of building owners in particular cases to organize and to pay for the professional services required.
Mr Deputy President, I move that the debate be adjourned.
Question on the adjournment proposed, put and agreed to.
CHIROPRACTORS REGISTRATION BILL
THE SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE moved the Second Reading of: "A Bill to provide for the registration of chiropractors, and disciplinary control of the professional activities of registered chiropractors, and for related matters."
He said: Mr Deputy President, I move the Second Reading of the Chiropractors Registration Bill.
Chiropractic is an alternative form of treatment distinct from allopathic practice of western medicine and surgery. In Hong Kong, chiropractors have been operating for some 20 years. There are now 26 of them, all trained overseas.
In the public interest, it has been our policy progressively to register key health care professions: to ensure high standard of service and to enhance the status of our health professionals. This Bill is part of our continuing efforts to achieve those objectives.
The Bill before Members seeks to establish a Chiropractors Council to be responsible for registration, setting of standards, regulation of conduct and administration of discipline for chiropractors. Having regard to both professional and public interests, the Chiropractors Council will have an equal number of chiropractors and non-chiropractors.
In the process of formulating our proposal, we have throughout maintained close In the process of formulating our proposal, we have throughout maintained close consultation with the chiropractic profession through the Hong Kong Chiropractors' Association. We have fully taken into account their concerns and accommodated their legitimate requests where practicable. We have also discussed the draft Bill, line by line, with the chiropractors.
I am pleased to report that this Bill has their support. Nevertheless, there remains one outstanding issue. This concerns the Chinese title for chiropractors.
The Chiropractors' Association considers that the proposed title would place The Chiropractors' Association considers that the proposed title would place chiropractors in the same category as "therapists" or sub-professionals. It further contends that as primary health care professionals on a par with practitioners of medicine and surgery, they should be entitled to use the term " " and be addressed
as either " " or " ".
We in the Administration recognize the professional status of chiropractors. We appreciate their role in our health care system. We are, however, concerned that people should not be misled into thinking that chiropractors are qualified to practise medicine and surgery. Accordingly, we have proposed the Chinese title " " for chiropractors. It distinguishes them from "therapists" (" ") and supplementary
medical professionals (" "). At the same time, it is a well respected designation in use by other primary health care professionals.
Mr Deputy President, I move that the Second Reading debate on this Bill be now adjourned.
Question on the adjournment proposed, put and agreed to.
PREVENTION OF BRIBERY (AMENDMENT) BILL 1992
Resumption of debate on Second Reading which was moved on 26 February 1992 Question on Second Reading proposed.
MR SIMON IP: Mr Deputy President, the Prevention of Bribery (Amendment) Bill 1992 and the next Bill on the Order Paper, namely the Independent Commission Against Corruption (Amendment) Bill 1992, seek to make amendments to the two principal Ordinances to remove provisions which are almost certainly in conflict with the Bill of Rights Ordinance. The two principal Ordinances were exempted from the operation of the Bill of Rights Ordinance for a period of one year from 8 June 1991.
An ad hoc group set up to study the two Bills has held altogether five meetings.
It has invited submissions from various organizations and sought clarification from the Administration. I shall not describe in detail the submissions received but wish to place on record my appreciation of the views of those organizations, which have facilitated the deliberations of the ad hoc group.
Mr Deputy President, I now turn to the major issues on these Bills which the ad Mr Deputy President, I now turn to the major issues on these Bills which the ad hoc group has considered. First, I shall deal with the Prevention of Bribery (Amendment) Bill. The first matter arising on that Bill is the power to detain any person during a search.
The ad hoc group has considered the proposed repeal of the provisions that enable an investigating officer to detain any person during a search under sections 16 and 17 of the Ordinance. The Administration's view is that the power to detain "any person", which could include a person who is not a suspect and who has nothing to do with the matter being investigated, could well be arbitrary interference with the privacy of a person contrary to Articles 5 and 14 of the Bill of Rights Ordinance. Besides, the powers of search and seizure provided for in those sections are not concerned primarily with searching for persons; they are in most instances used to search for and seize evidence. The Administration has confirmed that the proposed repeal would not present any operational difficulties for the ICAC, and that the present powers of arrest sufficiently provide for the arrest of suspects. The ad hoc group is satisfied with the explanation and assurance given.
The second matter arising under that Bill, the granting of bail to persons about The second matter arising under that Bill, the granting of bail to persons about to leave Hong Kong after the commencement of an investigation.
The ad hoc group has sought the views of the Administration on the proposed repeal of section 17C(3) and section 18 of the Ordinance which provide for the power to arrest and remand on bail or in custody for a period not exceeding 28 days a suspect without that suspect having been charged. The Administration does not consider that the existing provisions would withstand a challenge under Articles 5 and 8 of the Bill of Rights Ordinance. It has also clarified that the present statutory provisions whereby a suspect may be granted bail either by a senior officer of the ICAC or by the court, coupled with the power to require surrender of his travel documents, are adequate to ensure that the suspect returns to or remains within the jurisdiction. The Administration does not envisage a need to replace the repealed sections. The ad hoc group has been assured that the operational effectiveness of the ICAC will not be hampered as a result of these amendments.
The third matter arising under this Bill is the offence to disclose the identity of persons being investigated.
The existing section 30 of the Prevention of Bribery Ordinance makes it an offence for any person to disclose to any other person the identity of a suspect under ICAC investigation, or any details of such investigation. This section has been criticized as limiting the freedom of the press as it restricts publication of details of ICAC investigations. The section could be challenged as being contrary to Article 16 of the Bill of Rights Ordinance in that it limits freedom of expression. The difficulty here is to strike the correct balance between the basic right of the community to know what the ICAC is doing, against the needs to protect the integrity and
confidentiality of ICAC investigations and to protect the reputation of the subject of investigation, particularly where criminal proceedings do not follow investigation.
The Bill proposes amendment to the section so that it will no longer be an of The Bill proposes amendment to the section so that it will no longer be an offence to disclose the identity of a person who is the subject of an investigation or the details of the investigation after that person has been arrested.
Different views have been expressed by various organizations as well as by Me Different views have been expressed by various organizations as well as by Members of the ad hoc group about the proposed amendment. They range from the suggestion that disclosure of identity should only be made after the person has been charged, to a further relaxation of the section so as to permit disclosure in a wider range of situations.
The ad hoc group notes the expression of concern that prevention of disclosure of information may permit or encourage the repressive use of powers under cover of censorship. On the other hand, it also recognizes that corruption is a difficult crime to detect and often requires the conduct of covert investigations before
sufficient evidence is obtained to sustain a prosecution. Premature disclosure could prejudice those investigations.
The Administration has explained to us that the primary purpose of section 30 The Administration has explained to us that the primary purpose of section 30 is to preserve the integrity of investigations. By way of a side-wind, its existence assists in the protection of the reputation of individuals against whom reports of corruption are made but in respect of whom thorough investigations later exonerate them. Article 16 of the Bill of Rights Ordinance recognizes the protection of the
reputation of others as a legitimate limitation on the right to freedom of expression. Experience shows that the number of persons arrested and charged only constitutes a small number of cases reported. As an illustration, of the 2 411 reports made to the ICAC last year, 1 759 were pursuable reports and from these, 649 persons were arrested and only 334 were charged. Thus, only 13.8% of cases reported have led to prosecutions in 1991.
The balancing exercise I have mentioned is not at all an easy one to perform. The Administration has undertaken to reconsider the new section 30 in the context of a continuing review of the Ordinance after passage of the Bill. In the light of this, Legislative Council In-House has decided that this proposed amendment be
supported.
I now turn to the Independent Commission Against Corruption (Amendment) Bill 1992.
This Bill raises the same concern as in the Prevention of Bribery (Amendment) This Bill raises the same concern as in the Prevention of Bribery (Amendment) Bill that the Commission may detain "any person" found during a search even if he is not a suspect. The views of the ad hoc group in this respect have already been mentioned in the context of the Prevention of Bribery (Amendment) Bill and I will not repeat them.
Moreover, the Bill seeks to repeal section 13(1)(c) of the ICAC Ordinance which gives power to the Commissioner to require any person to provide any information which the Commissioner considers necessary. This subsection could be challenged on the grounds of arbitrary interference with privacy contrary to Article 14 of the Bill of Rights Ordinance. The ad hoc group is satisfied that this section should be
repealed and that resumption of Second Reading be supported.
Finally, I turn to other provisions of the two principal Ordinances not covered by the two Bills. The ad hoc group believes that there may be other provisions in the principal Ordinances which could be at risk of being held incompatible with the Bill of Rights Ordinance. But to undertake a full and comprehensive review at this stage would result in delay in bringing about the amendments proposed in the two Bills. Members have, therefore, agreed that the ad hoc group should be retained to continue studying the two principal Ordinances with the Administration with a view to
implementing further changes in future if necessary.
With these remarks, Mr Deputy President, I support the Prevention of Bribery (Amendment) Bill 1992, as well as the Independent Commission Against Corruption (Amendment) Bill 1992 next on the Order Paper.
MR MARTIN LEE: Mr Deputy President, I rise to voice my strong objection to the insufficiency of the proposed amendment to section 30 of the Prevention of Bribery (Amendment) Bill 1992. I believe both the Executive Council and the Legislative Council In-House have been short-sighted and careless in allowing this amendment to go forward, and this short-sightedness is likely to cause harm to the ICAC in the long run.
As Members all know, the freeze period under the Bill of Rights will expire at the end of next week. Yet, for some reason, it is only recently that the Executive Council has approved Bills to amend the offending portions of the six frozen Ordinances and submitted them to this Council for scrutiny. The delay is reprehensible. The Hong Kong Government first announced that Hong Kong would have a Bill of Rights a full three years ago, a White Bill was introduced into this Council more than two years ago, and the formal Bill of Rights was passed on 6 June 1991. Yet, for some reason, it is only now at the eleventh hour that the Government and the Executive Council have approved amendments to Ordinances that the Government has known for three years would have to be amended.
Now that we are pressed to the last minute, the ICAC says it does not have enough time to carefully consider necessary amendments to the Bill. When some Members of the ad hoc group voiced our dissatisfaction with the proposed amendment to section 30 -- a section whose flaws have long been publicly criticized in the community -- the ICAC replied: "All of these changes require careful thought and careful drafting. It is not easy to see how they can be achieved, with necessary care, in the few
remaining weeks of the freeze period." Careful thought and careful drafting -- this was exactly what the Government has had three years to do! And, certainly, this is supposed to be the Executive Council's role: to carefully examine possible amendments to ensure that the amended Bill will be in full conformity with the Bill of Rights. I would like to ask: what has the Government been doing? Why were these questions not raised and carefully considered before this Bill was presented to this Council? I find it inexcusable that important amendments are not being made to this Bill because the Government says it has not had enough time.
My second area of dissatisfaction is the standard that the Government has adopted in amending the frozen Ordinances. The standard is that the Government will only propose amendments to provisions which are "almost certainly inconsistent with the Bill of Rights Ordinance." In other words, if the Government is 99% sure that a
provision would violate the Bill of Rights, then it will propose amendments. But, if the Government is only 80% or 90% sure that a provision would offend the Bill of Rights -- a law that both the Executive Council and this Council have stressed is of the highest importance to Hong Kong -- then the Government will not seek to amend that provision. Rather, it will leave it to the courts to decide.
I am afraid that in passing this amendment today, this Council will be adopting a similar attitude. I find this attitude to be both irresponsible and short-sighted. Last year, this Council approved the Bill of Rights, and Members spoke strongly about the need to provide Hong Kong with a baseline of fundamental human rights that has been accepted by countries all over the world. Yet, now when faced with a section that many Members believe is likely to be in contravention of that Bill of Rights, we do not take the responsibility to use our own judgment and demand that the section be properly amended. Rather we wash our hands of the matter and leave all the
responsibility to the courts.
Such an irresponsible attitude in the long run will serve only to harm the ultimate purpose for which we are passing this Bill which is to ensure the integrity and effectiveness of the ICAC. Yet, let us consider what the net result of allowing laws to stand that are likely to violate the Bill of Rights. In the course of a prosecution under these laws, the defence will challenge the validity of these laws and the courts are likely to rule the laws to be in violation of the Bill of Rights, thereby allowing the criminals to get off scot-free. The failure of the prosecution will only undermine public confidence and support in the ICAC and hamper the effectiveness of the ICAC, for as we all know, public confidence and support is absolutely essential if the ICAC is to remain the effective anti-corruption body that it is today.
I will not go into every detail of the Bill today, though I am afraid that there are several aspects that are likely to be overturned by the courts. Rather, I will focus on what I believe to be the most egregious insufficiency in the proposed amendment to section 30 of the Prevention of Bribery Amendment Ordinance. Under the proposed amendment, the press is not allowed to report any details of an ICAC investigation until the suspect has actually been arrested by the ICAC. Any step short of arrest -- no matter how public that step may be -- would not lift the
prohibition against reporting.
This means that if the ICAC came into a person's office in the middle of a press This means that if the ICAC came into a person's office in the middle of a press conference with a search warrant and demanded to see all of his files, the press would still be barred from reporting the event. Or, similarly, if the ICAC has persuaded a court to confiscate a person's passport, the press would also be committing a crime to report this fact. Such a result is wholly untenable. Surely, the public has a right to know if the Government is taking overt actions against various members of the community. There is little justification for clouding such actions in secrecy.
What, then, is the purpose of this provision? The ICAC has maintained that section 30 is necessary to ensure the Commission's operational effectiveness. Yet, it cannot be said that reporting of a search would hamper the investigation of a suspect, for a suspect whose office has been searched or passport confiscated is already well aware that he is the subject of the investigation.
The provision as it stands seems clearly in conflict with Article 16 of the Bill of Rights, which guarantees freedom of expression, including freedom of the press to report. While the Bill explicitly provides for a limitation of this freedom, those limitations must be necessary -- and I emphasize the word necessary -- to respect the rights or reputations of others or to protect public order. In this case, an absolute prohibition on reporting an overt action such as a search can hardly be justified as necessary on these two grounds. The amendment fails the balancing test required under the Bill of Rights, for it places a blanket restriction on press freedom where a more limited and more carefully drafted restriction would be more appropriate. In striking a proper balance, it is important to remember that there are no such restrictions on the press in reporting police actions. Hence, if the police were to conduct a search of the home of a suspected gang member alleged to have committed murder and robbery, the press would be free to report all details of such event, even though this would alert other gang members of the police investigation.
I cannot over-emphasize the importance of the freedom of the press in protecting all our other freedoms. While everyone in the community wishes to see the ICAC maintain its high level of effectiveness in fighting corruption, we must not sacrifice other vital freedoms, such as the freedom of the press, in order to keep a restriction that will have little bearing on the actual effectiveness of the ICAC. Indeed, we may be doing the ICAC a disservice. For in exposing the ICAC to the risk of an adverse ruling by the courts we risk a loss in the public confidence and support that are
so necessary for the ICAC's effective action.
Hence, with these remarks, I voice my strong dissatisfaction with the amendment Bill as it now stands. Mr Deputy President, in fact, the ICAC did put forward a much better amendment to section 30 which would have a much better chance of withstanding any challenge under the Bill of Rights. Unfortunately, the Legislative Council
In-House chose to reject it in preference to the original proposed amendment which is now before this Council. Thus, this Council is now faced with the unpalliatable choice of approving a flawed amendment or retaining an even more flawed original. In the circumstances, the United Democrats of Hong Kong would abstain on the voting of this Bill and urge the Government to come forward as soon as possible with further amendments that will once and for all ensure the full compatibility of the Ordinance with the Bill of Rights.
MR RONALD ARCULLI: Mr Deputy President, the Independent Commission Against Corruption (Amendment) Bill 1992 and the Prevention of Bribery (Amendment) Bill 1992 are the first two Bills which seek to amend two out of six Ordinances covered by the freeze period under the Bill of Rights Ordinance. Concern has been raised within and outside the ad hoc group that certain sections of the two principal Ordinances may be
inconsistent with the Bill of Rights Ordinance but which may not have been fully covered by the amendments proposed under the two Bills we are now dealing with, and may thus require further amendment.
When this Council enacted the Bill of Rights Ordinance last June, the Administration proposed and this Council accepted that it was right to include six Ordinances within the freeze period so that the Bill of Rights Ordinance would not override such Ordinances in the event they were held to be inconsistent. It was implicit that, by adopting that course of action, the responsibility of assessing whether and the extent to which the six Ordinances might be inconsistent rested with the Administration. If the Administration were satisfied that such inconsistency existed, amendments would be made by way of bringing amending Bills to this Council. It is at this stage that Members of this Council would be charged with a duty of scrutinizing the amending Bill. In the course of such scrutiny, Members, particularly those with a legal background, may feel that the Administration has not covered each and every inconsistency and may therefore wish the Administration to introduce additional amendments. It is therefore not easy for those who are not lawyers to assess whether their lawyer colleagues or the Attorney General's Chambers,
or indeed the OMELCO Legal Unit, is right.
In my view, it is not always advisable for Members to approach this area of the law on the simplistic basis that, in the event of doubt, we should press for or indeed make an amendment. In the present case this applies even more because we have been given a clear undertaking by the Commissioner of the ICAC that there will be a further review of the two principal Ordinances and, in the course of such review, the concerns raised by some members of the ad hoc group will receive close scrutiny. Whilst it may not be entirely satisfactory to rely on the courts striking down an inconsistent provision, because a person would have been charged and possibly tried with an offence, it may be helpful to remind my colleagues that if a provision is held to be inconsistent,
no offence would have been committed. I therefore cannot agree with the remarks of the Honourable Martin LEE about criminals being set free. I believe that this is putting the position on the wrong footing and that the position is as I have stated.
As for the Bills before the Council today, it would not be right for us to ignore the legal advice given to the ICAC by the Attorney General's Chambers on the extent of the amendments. Nor would it be right for this Council to decide legal arguments, particularly those that are finely balanced. This, Mr Deputy President, is the
responsibility of our courts.
Mr Deputy President, subject to these comments, I support the two amending Bills.
MISS EMILY LAU: Mr Deputy President, with less than two weeks to go before the end of the one-year freeze period under which six draconian laws have been protected from challenges arising from the Bill of Rights, I am happy to see that some of the sweeping powers of the ICAC are to be removed.
Amendments to the Prevention of Bribery Ordinance, which is possibly one of the Amendments to the Prevention of Bribery Ordinance, which is possibly one of the most draconian laws in the Colony, were introduced into this Council on 26 February. Because of the pressure to meet the 8 June deadline, the ad hoc group which studied this amendment Bill was unable to have a thorough review of this piece of legislation on all aspects relating to the Bill of Rights Ordinance.
Our Legal Adviser has prepared a paper, drawing our attention to sections in the Ordinance which have not been identified by the Government as causing obvious consistency problems with the Bill of Rights. I am sorry we have only got our job
half done, Mr Deputy President, but I welcome the pledge from the ICAC Commissioner that he fully intends to conduct a comprehensive review of the Ordinance and I look forward to seeing the result of that review in the next Session of this Council.
Of the sections identified by our Legal Adviser, the area which gives me the most cause for concern is section 13 -- The Special Powers of Investigation. This section empowers the ICAC Commissioner to authorize ICAC officers to exercise very extensive powers of investigation which include demanding from any person any document or
article relating to a person named or otherwise identified in the authorization and any information relating thereto. The only safeguard, Mr Deputy President, is that it must appear to the Commissioner that an offence under this Ordinance may have been committed by the person named in the authorization.
Mr Deputy President, Article 14 of the Bill of Rights Ordinance provides that Mr Deputy President, Article 14 of the Bill of Rights Ordinance provides that no one shall be subjected to arbitrary or unlawful interference with his or her privacy. One cannot help but wonder whether such a potentially extensive invasion of privacy under section 13 can survive a challenge in the courts.
The list of problem areas is long, and I look forward to scrutinizing further amendments put forward by the ICAC in the next Session. On sections which the ICAC was prepared to make amendments, I am most disappointed with section 30, Mr Deputy President, which has been dubbed "The Press Gag Law". This section prohibits the disclosure of the identity of any person who is the subject of an ICAC investigation, or any details of the investigation. As Mr Simon IP said, the Bill seeks to amend the section by allowing disclosure after the person has been arrested. I think the amendment does not go far enough.
During the 22-year history of this Ordinance, section 30 was invoked only seven times, involving nine defendants. On three occasions it was used against the press. The ICAC's argument for retaining this section was outlined by Mr IP and I shall not repeat it. However, I have great difficulty in accepting the ICAC's arguments
because the Police Force, which also has to investigate very complex and sensitive commercial fraud cases, do not enjoy such sweeping powers.
Furthermore, the ICAC told us that it was not aware of any other jurisdiction in the world which has a similar provision. So, Mr Deputy President, although corruption of course is not unique to the Colony, I must say it is a funny feeling to know that we are the only jurisdiction in the world which gives our law enforcement
agency such sweeping powers.
Giving the ICAC such powers is particularly disturbing, given the fact that it Giving the ICAC such powers is particularly disturbing, given the fact that it is only accountable to the Governor. I would be much more comfortable if the ICAC were to receive regular scrutiny from this Council. After all, parliamentary oversight of law enforcement agencies is a common feature in established democracies.
Mr Deputy President, I regard the current review of the Prevention of Bribery Ordinance as just the beginning of a series of constructive dialogues with the ICAC, with the clear objective of making sure that it fully complies with the Bill of Rights, and also to ensure it does not undermine the effectiveness of the ICAC.
Mr Deputy President, there is widespread concern that Hong Kong will see an upsurge in corruption in the run-up to 1997, and I believe we need an effective ICAC. However, the sweeping and draconian powers of the ICAC have to be balanced against the standards for protecting human rights, which are set out in the Bill of Rights Ordinance. It is a fine balancing act and we owe it to the community to get it right.
ATTORNEY GENERAL: Mr Deputy President, I am most grateful to Mr Simon IP and members of the ad hoc group for their thorough consideration of and support for this very important Bill.
A number of Members have spoken about the proposed amendment to section 30 of A number of Members have spoken about the proposed amendment to section 30 of the Prevention of Bribery Ordinance. As we have heard, the amendment will permit disclosure of the identity of a person under investigation and details of an investigation after the arrest of that person.
There are some who are of the view that the amendment is too cautious, that the There are some who are of the view that the amendment is too cautious, that the scope of section 30 should be much more severely limited, or that possibly the section should be dispensed with altogether. In the detection of corruption offences, covert investigation is frequently essential at an early stage. In the course of the
investigation, officers of the Independent Commission Against Corruption often seek information in the exercise of their statutory powers from institutions such as banks. Disclosure of information relating to those investigations, prior to the arrest of the person under investigation, would in many cases thwart totally the investigation. The operational effectiveness of the Commission would be substantially and adversely affected. That, in my view, is not what the community desires.
The proposed amendment to section 30 is one which seeks to strike the balance between the need to protect the integrity of investigations and also the reputations of those against whom the allegations of corruption are made -- but against whom no criminal charges are subsequently brought -- and of what some would call the
community's right to know. I believe that the proposed amendment succeeds in striking that balance and will ensure section 30's compatibility with the Bill of Rights Ordinance.
Mr Deputy President, there are other provisions in the Prevention of Bribery Ordinance about which members of the ad hoc group have expressed reservations and concerns. Many of these provisions concern the Commission's powers of investigation. However, in the absence of authoritative decision by the courts in relation to the Commission's legislation, sweeping changes to the Commission's powers are thought to be neither sensible nor appropriate. The Commissioner of the Independent
Commission Against Corruption has nevertheless asked me to assure Members that it is not his intention, with the enactment of this Bill, then to put aside further consideration of the Commission's legislation and its compatibility with the Bill of Rights Ordinance. He is committed to a continuing review of the legislation in the light of legal advice and decisions of the courts. This Council and members of the ad hoc group will be kept fully informed of the progress of that review.
Some Members, in their speeches this afternoon, have also referred to the Some Members, in their speeches this afternoon, have also referred to the Independent Commission Against Corruption (Amendment) Bill. I would like to take this opportunity to say that the Commissioner has also asked me to reassure this Council that the amendments proposed in that Bill will not have any adverse effect upon the operation of the Commission. And the review to which I have just referred in respect of the Prevention of Bribery Ordinance will also embrace the Independent Commission Against Corruption Ordinance.
Thank you, Mr Deputy President. Thank you, Mr Deputy President.
Question on the Second Reading of the Bill put and agreed to. Bill read the Second time.
Bill committed to a Committee of the whole Council pursuant to Standing Order 43(1).
INDEPENDENT COMMISSION AGAINST CORRUPTION (AMENDMENT) BILL 1992 Resumption of debate on Second Reading which was moved on 26 February 1992 Question on the Second Reading of the Bill proposed, put and agreed to. Bill read the Second time.
Bill committed to a Committee of the whole Council pursuant to Standing Order 43(1).
Committee stage of Bills
Council went into Committee.
PREVENTION OF BRIBERY (AMENDMENT) BILL 1992
Clauses 1 to 6 were agreed to.
INDEPENDENT COMMISSION AGAINST CORRUPTION (AMENDMENT) BILL 1992 Clauses 1 to 3 were agreed to.
Council then resumed.
Third Reading of Bills
THE ATTORNEY GENERAL reported that the
PREVENTION OF BRIBERY (AMENDMENT) BILL 1992 and
INDEPENDENT COMMISSION AGAINST CORRUPTION (AMENDMENT) BILL 1992
had passed through Committee without amendment. He moved the Third Reading of the Bills.
Question on the Third Reading of the Bills proposed, put and agreed to. Bills read the Third time and passed.
Member's motions
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: In accordance with recent practice, Members have agreed to place a voluntary limit upon the length of speeches.
INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENT STRATEGY
MR HENRY TANG moved the following motion:
"That in view of the rapid structural changes in the ecomomy of Hong Kong, this Council urges the Government to review Hong Kong's industrial policies with a view to ensuring that the present strategies are effective in enhancing industrial competitiveness and development."
MR HENRY TANG: Mr Deputy President, I rise to move the motion standing in my name on the Order Paper.
Starting from a tiny fishing village, Hong Kong has done very well. We have g Starting from a tiny fishing village, Hong Kong has done very well. We have grown and flourished to become the tenth largest trading nation in the world, a leader in manufacturing exports; our goods are sold to almost every part of the world and today we can rightfully claim to be a world class financial centre. Our Gross Domestic Product reached HK$230 billion averaging about 8% growth per annum since 1970s and our per capita income has reached HK$86,000 in 1990, one of the highest in Asia. I would like to add that for this GDP and for this capita income we are in fact higher than Taiwan and South Korea, the other two little dragons. Such achievements from a tiny place with a population of barely six million is highly commendable.
Whilst we pride ourselves on our achievements, we should not blind ourselves with Whilst we pride ourselves on our achievements, we should not blind ourselves with an illusion of grandiosity. One only need to go to Guangzhou, to see the rapid changes and robust growth and development in this region. The impact of their growth can be felt by their numbers:
- Last year, Guangdong Pr - Last year, Guangdong Pr Last year, Guangdong Province's GDP growth reached US$44 billion ovince's GDP growth reached US$44 billion representing a real growth rate of 12.5% a year since 1980. Its industrial output rose 15% per annum and in the first seven months of 1990 its industrial output was 25% higher than the same period last year;
- Hainan, Fujian and Shantou all posted nearly 15% growth last year while ainan, Fujian and Shantou all posted nearly 15% growth last year while - Shenzhen and Zhuhai achieved an incredible 40% growth. - Shenzhen and Zhuhai achieved an incredible 40% growth.
We should not sit back and pat ourselves on the back and say "see what a good job we are doing for China" and forget about moving ahead ourselves. We must not be complacent or we will wake up one day and find that we have lagged far behind those we strive to lead, and it will be too late. Hong Kong's economy is doing very well with service; thank you very much, but our industries are not doing nearly as well. We need a cohesive industrial development policy to ensure Hong Kong's economic growth is sustainable and to spur our economy into the next century. And we should begin now.
Recently, much talk has been focused on Hong Kong's industry transformation and Recently, much talk has been focused on Hong Kong's industry transformation and that we are undergoing a structural change, namely, that we are transforming from a manufacturing to a service-oriented industry together with an unprecedented shift of our manufacturing sector overseas, principally into mainland China. Nevertheless,
what is the true extent of such a "move" into the mainland; how much of each company's operation has been relocated into China and what is left behind that is performed by the Hong Kong companies? Are Hong Kong companies solely performing marketing or simply re-invoicing? All these we do not know enough to have a definite answer, but one thing we know for sure is that many of our manufacturing firms are closing; there is no new major factory opening; employment in the manufacturing sector shrunk from 900 000 in 1984 to 730 000 last year; our electronics industry continues to produce principally OEM products with little or no innovation; and almost 97% of our toys industry has moved its operations out of Hong Kong into China; manufacturing's
contribution to our GDP fell from 32% in 1980 to 18% last year. All these factors point to an undisputable fact that Hong Kong's industrial base is dwindling.
In the face of such structural changes in our economy, are we ready for the impact? Is Hong Kong's economic growth in the next few decades reliant on our service industry, and is this heavy reliance on one particular sector of our industry dangerous? Whilst
other countries are working and developing to boost their industries, Hong Kong seems to be only letting things go by. This is called laissez-faire.
We do not have a defined industrial policy that would spur our economic growth during this transformation period into the next decade, nor do we have a cohesive strategy that will encourage reinvestments. The Hong Kong Government's industrial policy so far appears to be lagging far behind other dragons.
In South Korea, industrial policy is well synchronized with educational and infrastructural developments. It has a comprehensive Five Year Plan which sets the following goals:
- In its Seventh Plan between 1992 and 1995 an estimated US$38 billion will - In its Seventh Plan between 1992 and 1995 an estimated US$38 billion will be invested into the development of hi-technology;
- The Plan comprises US$16 billion earmarked for R&D into microelectronic - The Plan comprises US$16 billion earmarked for R&D into microelectronic The Plan comprises US$16 billion earmarked for R&D into microelectronics, mechatronics or robotics, fine chemicals bionics, optics and aviation technology;
- Another US$22.6 billion will be invested into developing manufacturing - Another US$22.6 billion will be invested into developing manufacturing facilities;
- There is a concerted effort from the Government to make low interest loan - There is a concerted effort from the Government to make low interest loan available to small and medium-sized enterprises and also that investment in scientific and technology investment will likely rise to 4% of GNP by 1996.
For Taiwan, this is the same case; they have a six-year development plan that will cost nearly US$300 billion to spur economic growth and development. It has a comprehensive tax system to attract investments and reinvestments and also has an Institute for Information Industry, Information Tax Research Institute and a
Development Centre for Bio-technology. It sounds very comprehensive.
And finally what we would best like to compare is our nearest competitor, what we call the third little dragon, Singapore. Since 1985, after an initial setback on its industrial policy, the Singapore Government developed a blueprint hammered together by the government with the assistance of industry and academics. The
blueprint identified strategic industries for nurturing and development. Concerted efforts were put in to co-ordinate resource and education policies to integrate with that of its industrial development policy. Its manpower training begins at lower
secondary level to technical institutes, vocational training councils, polytechnics, universities and right up to joint government and private sector effort to run schools, scholarships to train engineers in targetted specialized areas.
Manufacturing accounts for a quarter of Singapore's GDP, and despite its emphasis on going hi-tech, equal importance is given to assisting small and medium-sized enterprises in increasing higher value added by greater automation, application of robotics and technology.
- To put that perspective into numbers, nearly 1% of Singapore GNP is alloc - To put that perspective into numbers, nearly 1% of Singapore GNP is allocated to R&D;
- In 1989, Singapore earmarked S$60 million for its Bio-technology Master Pl - In 1989, Singapore earmarked S$60 million for its Bio-technology Master Pl In 1989, Singapore earmarked S$60 million for its Bio-technology Master Plan; and
- Singapore boasts a 9% growth per annum in manufacturing productivity. - Singapore boasts a 9% growth per annum in manufacturing productivity.
All the above three little dragons have impressive economic growth and commendable export performances that exceed those of Hong Kong's. Their keen competition pricing policy is no doubt deeply felt by many of our industrialists in the very competitive international market place. In other words, we are losing market shares to those countries because of their policy.
Let us take a quick look at Japan, which has risen out of the ashes of the Se Let us take a quick look at Japan, which has risen out of the ashes of the Second World War like a phoenix to establish itself as the world feared and foremost industrial powerhouse.
Japan commenced its industrial development policies right after the Second World War. A range of programmes aimed at improving the national technological standard such as tax incentives, R&D subsidies and loans were given by the government. In the 1960s Japan has already entered into an era of rapid economic growth and today we all know that Japan is one of the world's topmost leaders in technology equal to that of the United States and Germany.
A booklet published by JETRO, which is Japan External Trade Organization, on Japan's industrial policy, states that Japan's industrial policy by the 1980s has already reached a level whereby its "vision" need not pinpoint any selective industries to develop through special development effort. The reason for that is because Japan's technological level has already achieved the level of western
countries and therefore it is unable to advance technologically by introducing foreign technologies. Hence, the 1980 vision need only to urge all industries to strive for greater knowledge-intensiveness through R&D, and there is no need to provide any special development effort any more. Such outspoken confidence and pride in one's own country's success did not come through luck but through a determined single-purpose goal-oriented policy together with the collective effort of all Japanese people.
Coming back to home, are we content that our industry will remain laissez- Coming back to home, are we content that our industry will remain laissez-faire and market driven, confined to producing mostly OEM products with little innovation and low value added? How long can we go on making toasters, T-shirts and ninja turtles?
As announced in our latest Budget, Hong Kong has earmarked HK$200 million or 0 As announced in our latest Budget, Hong Kong has earmarked HK$200 million or 0.05% of our GDP to assist R&D under the auspices of the Industry and Technology Development Council. It is good news; it is a good start and it is a commendable effort by the Government but it pales against the amount of funds injected by other governments towards R&D: Singapore injects, by comparison, 1% of its GNP, Taiwan 1.9% and South Korea 3%.
No doubt, active participation can be seen by the Government in the work of the Hong Kong Productivity Council and the ITDC and the Government is now studying establishing a Science Park as well as other infrastructural developments.
On our human resource, the Government is planning to increase the number of postgraduate research programmes by admitting more students, up to 3 500 places by 1994-95. The establishment of the University of Science and Technology is likely to bring in a few more engineers and scientists. However, are these programmes co-ordinated; how much efforts have been made to ensure that our technical institutes, vocational training councils, polytechnics and universities are producing technicians, engineers and scientists who integrate with our industrial needs and complement economic goals?
Let us take a look at a few numbers in which we are falling behind our compet Let us take a look at a few numbers in which we are falling behind our competitors. Our GDP growth in the last three years averages 3%. In a report recently issued by the Asian Development Bank, Hong Kong's GDP growth for 1992 and 1993 is estimated to be around 5.8%, while the other three little dragons are projected to achieve GDP growth of nearly 7% per annum in the next two years. Such projections are disturbing.
Hence we need to know what is causing such low growth; we also need to know how far behind we are in terms of technological and industrial development, where we do stand and what we should embark on to catch up or to keep pace. And in terms of R&D on hi-technology, such as bio-technology and information technology, what level of
technology has Hong Kong reached and which level of technology or area of industrial development should we focus on that would enhance and ensure growth and prosperity in our economy?
Mr Deputy President, most of us, when we talk about industrial development, jump to the conclusion that we want to move hi-tech. I am not sure I agree entirely that we have to move to hi-tech because there is some technology that is suitable for Hong Kong while there is some other that we may not think of developing. However,
whichever way we intend our technological level to achieve, there is still a need for Hong Kong to maintain its manufacturing industry, to strike a healthy balance between service and manufacturing. Though the service industry is of vital importance to our economic growth, industry is the crucial wealth creation component. We should seek to maintain our industrial manufacturing base through more automation and higher value added products. Manufacturers are the most committed investors, as when one opens up a factory in Hong Kong, the factory cannot be telegraphically transferred to Singapore in one second. Here I would like to add that Hong Kong's gross value added had remained constant at around 26% in the last five years; that is a very low figure and I think much needs to be done.
The shift towards a service-oriented industry is not unique to Hong Kong. The shift towards a service-oriented industry is not unique to Hong Kong. Singapore, Korea and Taiwan all experienced a drop in their manufacturing percentage of GNP. However, through concerted effort by their governments since 1980s, the contribution ratio for Taiwan is now 43% for manufacturing, South Korea is now 46%. Their steering of such economic balance commenced several years ago when we had not even started doing anything about this.
The importance of a strong manufacturing base cannot be sufficiently stressed and its contribution to the creation of a nation's wealth cannot be lightly dismissed. We should make a concerted effort to maintain our industrial base and not let it dwindle further. Particular emphasis should be given to the small and medium-sized enterprises, as we can see the efforts put in by our neighbouring countries. Recently,
Brigadier General LEE Hsien Loong of Singapore, in the face of the country's falling manufacturing output, once again expressed its government's interest in maintaining manufacturing -- signifying his concern on the over-reliance of its manufacturing
sector on moving its operations to neighbouring countries. We are no different. There is now an urgent need to strengthen our manufacturing industrial base to ensure prosperity and spur economic growth.
External trade factors are also pushing Hong Kong towards a new era where the need for a co-ordinated and proactive industrial policy is even more urgent. Rising protectionism, closing markets due to saturation and fierce competition, the forging of trade blocs by our trading partners which stretch from the EC single market to extended EC-EFTA, which includes Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, Finland and Austria. The ASEAN Free Trade Zone, now on the drawing board, and the North American Free Trade Agreement all exclude Hong Kong. We are the outsider and nobody wants us in.
How and where does Hong Kong feature in this new scenario? We participate in GATT and other international trade conventions including APEC (Asia Pacific Conference), but is this sufficient to safeguard our interests? Anyone who truly believes that GATT has enough teeth to protect our rights must have a halo over his head. We must look after our own interests. The Joint Declaration bestows on Hong Kong full autonomy in our international trade relations, but Hong Kong is not competing amongst ourselves but against such strong forces of forged trade links. Are we able to stand alone? There is no room for complacency. There is no time to procrastinate -- we need to forge ahead and keep pace before we become redundant.
When the issue of a debate on industrial development policy became known, I received widespread support and encouragement. A snap poll conducted by the Federation of Hong Kong Industries reveals a general consensus that Hong Kong needs a co-ordinated industrial policy with defined strategies and targets -- a policy that will propel our economic growth, create wealth and prosperity for all to share. We can no longer be reactive; we need an industrial policy that is proactive, one that foresees needs and changes and strives towards our goals.
I have only touched on the subjects of manpower, training, education, funding for high tech and small and medium businesses. I will leave to my colleagues to elaborate them further.
Mr Deputy President, it is with these remarks that I urge the Government to undertake a review of our industries from base zero. We need to challenge fundamental assumption of our industrial base and look at its future from a totally fresh perspective without preconception.
Mr Deputy President, while I have advocated a review of our present strategies, I urge the Government that, after having reviewed our present strategies and if they find that our present strategies are deficient, they should undertake to revise the strategies in order to enhance the competitiveness and development of Hong Kong's industry. And with these words, I move the motion.
Question on the motion proposed.
MR ALLEN LEE: Mr Deputy President, we, members of the Co-operative Resources Centre, in our deliberations of our shared values, have placed the economy of Hong Kong high on our agenda. We conclude and believe in:
(a) ensuring that Hong Kong remains an important financial, industrial and (a) ensuring that Hong Kong remains an important financial, industrial and commercial centre;
(b) maintaini (b) maintaini maintaining and enhancing an infrastructure which will facilitate economic ng and enhancing an infrastructure which will facilitate economic growth;
(c) promoting sound management of the economy; (c) promoting sound management of the economy;
(d) promoting and maintaining an environment which is conducive to investment; (d) promoting and maintaining an environment which is conducive to investment; (e) actively promoting Hong Kong in the internat (e) actively promoting Hong Kong in the internat actively promoting Hong Kong in the international community; and finally; ional community; and finally; (f) ensuring adequate economic wealth is generated to fund social programmes. (f) ensuring adequate economic wealth is generated to fund social programmes.
Mr Deputy President, industry is still the backbone of our economy. In the recent years, there is a significant change in our industrial structure. Due to the open-door policy adopted by China, the industrialists have shifted our manufacturing base to the Pearl River Delta area to take advantage of a vast supply of inexpensive labour and the availability of factory sites. We have managed well in the production of consumer products to compete in the world market. We have experienced a boom in our re-export trade. However, local industries still employ 700 000 people. It has to move up-market and concentrate on high value added products and higher technology goods.
There is a distinct lack of support from our Government in the development of
higher technology. We are unable to compete with our Asian competitors such as Korea, Taiwan and Singapore. There is a lack of overall industrial development strategy. Our Government realizes there is a problem in this area and therefore embarked on a programme to establish a technology centre. However, this is far from sufficient to lead Hong Kong in the area of high technology development. I believe our
Government should adopt a two-pronged approach.
Firstly, we should vigorously pursue a policy of attracting overseas investment in high technology. I have suggested before, and I am now suggesting again, that the overseas investment promotion activity should be transferred from the Government to the Trade Development Council (TDC). The TDC has a worldwide network of offices. The TDC has done well in promoting Hong Kong's trade and I am certain that given the responsibility of promoting overseas investment in Hong Kong, they will do equally well. I hope our Government considers this proposal immediately.
Secondly, we should utilize our existing institutions, such as the Hong Kong Productivity Council, to be responsible for our internal high-tech development. The HKPC has for many years been assisting industries to improve productivity. It is an appropriate organization, given the resources, to promote high-tech in Hong Kong. We have been putting adequate resources in education by the establishment of the University of Science and Technology; therefore there will be no lack of talent coming out of our tertiary education sector. We must provide opportunities for our young people to engage in research and development. In turn, they will contribute towards our overall industrial development.
Mr Deputy President, Hong Kong survives on a thriving economy. Our future depends on our ability to compete and compete effectively. Unless our Government adopts the attitude and allocates sufficient funds in support of high-tech development, I can see we will run into the danger of not only losing sight of the world trend, but we will be unable to compete in the future. We have come this far in becoming one of the major trading territories in the world; we must make a determined effort to
maintain and facilitate our future economic growth.
I am in full support of my colleague Henry TANG's motion. I commend the Government to review Hong Kong's industrial policy with urgency.
MR STEPHEN CHEONG: Mr Deputy President, today's western way of life and sense of values
were led by the Industrial Revolution. Throughout the past 100 or 200 years, we have seen how different societies of this world progress. We have seen today's world economic development led by consumer products and services. We have also seen how the countries, after the Second World War, like Japan, West Germany, Hong Kong as a territory, Taiwan, South Korea and Singapore develop. Industry plays no small part in such development.
Hong Kong has been lucky so far, Mr Deputy President, because we have been able Hong Kong has been lucky so far, Mr Deputy President, because we have been able -- in the expanding world economic situation and world trade -- to find certain niches in our consumer product oriented manufacturing base. We have also been lucky because we went into the market earlier than the other dragons. Therefore we learnt faster and we had a share of the market which we are unlikely to give up. Nevertheless, the world technological scene is able to develop very quickly and we lacked certain
foresight in comparison with the other three territories as mentioned by the Honourable Henry TANG and the Honourable Allen LEE.
It might not necessarily have been the Government's fault because the Government has always believed that it is best left to the market place and to the people involved to find the best development for their products. That is not necessarily wrong in itself, but I put it to the Administration, Mr Deputy President, that times have changed. We have got to look at issues in a slightly different light because as our society develops and as our quality of life improves, naturally the costs of
production would increase. And if we do not increase our productivity by adopting automatic processes, we will certainly be left out in the competitive game.
That has partly contributed -- apart from China opening up her own markets and That has partly contributed -- apart from China opening up her own markets and adopting an open-door policy -- to the loss of competitive edge which has also pushed most of our industries into moving across the border, and even seeking lower production costs elsewhere in this particular region.
What does this do to Hong Kong, then? Medium term, because of China's economic development, loss of employment opportunities in the manufacturing has been compensated by jobs created in the service sector through the growth of our internal economy which has been fuelled by China's growth of economy. But in the medium term how are we going to cope? I would say that -- touch wood -- as long as the Chinese economic open-door policy continues, I think in so far as economic development for the whole territory is concerned it should be all right and that the service sector is going to be able to absorb more and more people. But alas, there must be a certain proportion of our people who need to seek employment opportunities and they may not
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