HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCILＺ―9 January 1985 445
OFFICIAL REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS
Wednesday, 9 January 1985
The Council met at half past two o’clock
PRESENT
HIS EXCELLENCY THE GOVERNOR (PRESIDENT)
SIR EDWARD YOUDE, G.C.M.G., M.B.E.
THE HONOURABLE THE CHIEF SECRETARY
SIR CHARLES PHILIP HADDON-CAVE, K.B.E., C.M.G., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY
SIR JOHN HENRY BREMRIDGE, K.B.E., J.P,
THE HONOURABLE THE ATTORNEY GENERAL
MR. MICHAEL DAVID THOMAS. C.M.G., Q.C.
THE HONOURABLE SIR ROGERIO HYNDMAN LOBO, C.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE DAVID AKERS-JONES, C.M.G., J.P.
SECRETARY FOR DISTRICT ADMINISTRATION
DR. THE HONOURABLE HARRY FANG SIN-YANG. C.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE FRANCIS YUAN-HAO TIEN. O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE ALEX WU SHU-CHIH, C.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE CHEN SHOU-LUM, C.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE LYDIA DUNN, C.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE ALAN JAMES SCOTT, C.B.E., J.P.
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT
THE HONOURABLE PETER C. WONG, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE WONG LAM, O.B.E., J.P.
DR. THE HONOURABLE THONG KAH-LEONG. C.B.E., J.P.
DIRECTOR OF MEDICAL AND HEALTH SERVICES
THE HONOURABLE ERIC PETER HO, C.B.E., J.P.
SECRETARY FOR TRADE AND INDUSTRY
DR. THE HONOURABLE HO KAM-FAI, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE ALLEN LEE PENG-FEI, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE ANDREW SO KWOK-WING, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE HU FA-KUANG, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE WONG PO-YAN, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE DONALD LIAO POON-HUAI, C.B.E., J.P.
SECRETARY FOR HOUSING
THE HONOURABLE WILLIAM CHARLES LANGDON BROWN, O.B.E., J.P.
446 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL―9 January 1985
THE HONOURABLE CHAN KAM-CHUEN, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE JOHN JOSEPH SWAINE, O.B.E., Q.C., J.P. THE HONOURABLE STEPHEN CHEONG KAM-CHUEN, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG YAN-LUNG, M.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE MRS. SELINA CHOW LIANG SHUK-YEE, J.P. THE HONOURABLE MARIA TAM WAI-CHU, O.B.E., J.P.
DR. THE HONOURABLE HENRIETTA IP MAN-HING
THE HONOURABLE PIERS JACOBS, O.B.E., J.P.
SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES
THE HONOURABLE DAVID GREGORY JEAFFRESON, C.B.E., J.P. SECRETARY FOR SECURITY
THE HONOURABLE CHAN NAI-KEONG, C.B.E., J.P.
SECRETARY FOR LANDS AND WORKS
THE HONOURABLE RONALD GEORGE BLACKER BRIDGE, J.P. COMMISSIONER FOR LABOUR
THE HONOURABLE CHAN YING-LUN
THE HONOURABLE MRS. RITA FAN HSU LAI-TAI
THE HONOURABLE MRS. PAULINE NG CHOW MAY-LIN
THE HONOURABLE PETER POON WING-CHEUNG, M.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE YEUNG PO-KWAN, C.P.M.
THE HONOURABLE JAMES NEIL HENDERSON, O.B.E., J.P. SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER
THE HONOURABLE KIM CHAM YAU-SUM, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE KEITH LAM HON-KEUNG, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE CARL TONG KA-WING
THE HONOURABLE JOHN WALTER CHAMBERS, J.P.
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE
THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL LEUNG MAN-KIN, J.P.
DIRECTOR OF EDUCATION
THE HONOURABLE PETER TSAO KWANG-YUNG, C.P.M., J.P. SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS
ABSENT
THE HONOURABLE LO TAK-SHING, C.B.E., J.P.
IN ATTENDANCE
THE CLERK TO THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL
MR. LI WING
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCILＺ―9 January 1985 447
Papers
The following papers were laid pursuant to Standing Order 14(2):―
Subject L.N. No.
Subsidiary Legislation:
Ferry Services Ordinance.
Ferry Services (Hongkong and Yaumati Ferry Company, Limited)
(Determination of Fares) (Amendment) (No. 2) Order 1984 ----------------------- 410
Public Health and Urban Services Ordinance.
Public Health and Urban Services (Designation of Libraries) (No. 6) Order 1984 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 420
Public Health and Urban Services Ordinance.
Public Health and Urban Services (Public Markets) (Designation and Amendment of Tenth Schedule) (No. 6) Order 1984 -------------------------------- 421
Public Health and Urban Services Ordinance.
Pleasure Grounds (Amendment) (No. 5) By-Laws 1984 ---------------------------- 422
Public Health and Urban Services Ordinance.
Declaration of Markets in Urban Areas ------------------------------------------------ 423
District Court Ordinance.
District Court Civil Procedure (Fees) (Amendment) Rules 1984 ------------------ 424
Chinese Visa Office (Privileges and Immunities) Ordinance 1984.
Chinese Visa Office (Privileges and Immunities) Ordinance 1984 Commencement) Notice 1984----------------------------------------------------------- 425
Kowloon-Canton Railway By-Laws.
Kowloon-Canton Railway (Restricted Area) (No. 2) Notice 1984----------------- 426
Inland Revenue Ordinance.
Inland Revenue (Interest Tax) (Exemption) (Amendment) (No.16) Notice 1984 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 427
Tax Reserve Certificates (Fourth Series) Rules.
Tax Reserve Certificates (Rate of Interest) (No. 11) Notice 1984 ----------------- 428
Road Traffic (Construction and Maintenance of Vehicles) Regulations.
Specification of Colour Scheme Notice 1985 ----------------------------------------- 1/85 Sessional Papers 1984-85:
No. 34―Hong Kong Export Credit Insurance Corporation―Annual Report 1983-84.
No. 35―Hong Kong Trade Development Council―Annual Report and Accounts 1983- 1984.
448 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL―9 January 1985 Other
Joint Declaration of the Government of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the Government of the People’s Republic of China on the question of Hong Kong and the two associated Memoranda.
Oral answers to questions
Legislation in connection with the agreement and termination of sovereignty
1. MR. SWAINE asked:―In connection with the statement made by Sir Geoffrey HOWE in the House of Commons on 5 December 1984 when the Hong Kong Agreement was debated, that legislation would be brought forward early in 1985 to provide for termination of sovereignty in 1997, and to provide powers to make other changes to the law, including the nationality law, would the Administration please make a statement on how much powers are to be provided, the means by which such powers are to be exercised, and what safeguards there are to ensure due publicity and debate before enactment: further would the Hong Kong Government urge H.M.G. to ensure that all such proposed changes to the law, including the nationality law, are fully publicised both in the U.K. and Hong Kong well before their introduction so that representations may be made if necessary?
THE CHIEF SECRETARY:―The statement to which Mr. SWAINE refers as having been made by the Secretary of State, Sir Geoffrey HOWE, read as follows―and I quote:
‘Following signature, we shall bring forward legislation early next year to provide for termination of sovereignty in 1997, and to provide powers to make other changes to the law, including the nationality law, which will be necessary in connection with the Agreement and termination of sovereignty.’
As the legislation will be an Act of the British Parliament, I am not in a position to anticipate its contents. But I can assure Mr. SWAINE that, in accordance with Parliamentary procedure, the proposed legislation will be published in the form of a bill upon its introduction into Parliament. This will be followed after an interval by the normal process of public debate in both Houses, and there will be opportunities for representations to be made by people in Hong Kong if they so wish. Any subordinate legislation would, in accordance with normal procedure,also be subject to Parliamentary and public scrutiny. For our part, given that the bill will be concerned with the future of Hong Kong, the Hong Kong Government will naturally ensure that the contents of the Bill, once published in the U.K., are made widely known here.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCILＺ―9 January 1985 449
MR. SWAINE:―Sir, it appears from the Chief Secretary’s answer that subordinate legislation will in fact be used to amend the substance of law including the nationality law. Does Government agree that the procedure for subordinate legislation affords less scope for publicity and debate and that at the extreme end of the scale subordinate legislation can be passed by the Executive and remain effective unless disapproved by Parliament within a specified time which in view of the importance of the intended legislation to Hong Kong is the least satisfactory procedure?
THE CHIEF SECRETARY:―Sir, I did not anticipate that subordinate legislation would be involved in this particular exercise and I do not necessarily agree with the view taken by Mr. SWAINE on the appropriateness of the subordinate legislation in the particular instance.
MR. SWAINE:―Sir, may I direct the Chief Secretary’s attention respectfully to Sir Geoffrey Howe’s statement where he said that legislation would be brought forward to provide for two things: for termination of sovereignty and to provide powers to make other changes to the law? As I understand Sir Geoffrey HOWE’s statement, the substance of law by way of a bill will enable the Executive to pass subordinate legislation to amend the substantive law and hence my supplementary question.
THE CHIEF SECRETARY:―I do not think I could anticipate precisely what Her Majesty’s Government’s intentions are in Parliament at this stage.
MR. SWAINE:―In the event that the subordinate legislation is to be the vehicle for change to the substantive law including the nationality law, would the Hong Kong Government urge Her Majesty’s Government to ensure that steps are taken to publicise in Hong Kong and the United Kingdom the proposed subordinate legislation before passage?
THE CHIEF SECRETARY:―I have in effect already given such an undertaking. Improvement of living conditions in Kowloon Walled City
2. MR. ANDREW So asked in Cantonese:―
政府可否告知本局，政府有什麼計劃去改善九龍城砦內的居住環境﹖ (The following is the interpretation of what Mr. So asked.)
Could Government inform this Council what plans it has to improve living conditions in the Kowloon Walled City?
450 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL―9 January 1985
SECRETARY FOR DISTRICT ADMINISTRATION:―Sir, it is the Government’s policy to provide services and facilities to residents of the Kowloon Walled City, having regard to priorities in the allocation of resources and the physical conditions in the area.
In the vicinity of the Walled City, there are schools, clinics, social welfare centres and the Kowloon City District Office, to which residents have relatively easy access.
The Kowloon City District Board has also been active in improving the wellbeing of the Walled City residents in recent years by improving the footpaths and the main alleyways and in providing for a comprehensive street lighting programme.
A number of government departments provide services to the Walled City, treating it no differently from other parts of Hong Kong. The City Services Department, for instance, collects refuse from the area every day; a postal service is provided; regular police patrols are made and a full range of emergency services is available in the event of fire, flooding or other emergencies. The Kowloon City District Office helps residents to form Mutual Aid Committees to promote the better management of their buildings.
Many voluntary agencies are also active within the Walled City, and between them operate youth centres, child care centres, services for the elderly, kindergartens, and primary schools.
Telephone, gas, and electricity supplies are provided, while standpipes situated both within and outside the Walled City provide water. Plans to improve the water supply system are being studied by the relevant government department.
Finally a major recreational amenity, known as the Carpenter Road Park, is about to be built immediately adjacent to the Walled City. It will provide opportunities for active sports as well as relaxation for the thousands of Kowloon City residents, whether they live in or outside the Walled City.
Seat belt wearing in motor vehicles
3. MR. F. K. HU asked:―Can this Council be advised of the number of summonses, arrests and fixed penalty offences for not wearing seat belts in the front seats of private cars under Traffic (Safety Equipment) Regulations since I October 1983, and whether Government is satisfied with the results of enforcement actions?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT:―Sir, between 1 October 1983 and 30 November 1984, there were 12 237 prosecutions for the offences of driving a private car without wearing a seat belt or driving a private car without the front seat
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCILＺ―9 January 1985 451
passenger wearing a seat belt. Seven of these prosecutions were by way of arrest;2 512 by summons action; and 9 718 by fixed penalty tickets. Of the fixed penalty prosecutions, 4 454 were for the drivers personally not wearing a seat belt, and 5 264 were for driving without the front seat passenger wearing a seat belt.
The wearing of seat belts is making an important contribution to reducing the number and severity of front seat casualties in accidents. There was a 14 per cent reduction in the total number of such casualties, which included a 15 per cent reduction in the number of fatal or serious injuries, in the six months following the introduction of the compulsory wearing of seat belts, compared with the preceding six months.
I believe, Sir, that these figures indicate a satisfactory level of enforcement by the Royal Hong Kong Police Force, and that it is helping to ensure a high level of compliance with the legislation.
MR. F. K. HU:―Can the Secretary for Transport advise this Council whethe there is any programme for enforcing seat belt wearing in other types of vehicles?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT:―Yes, Sir. In regard to goods vehicles it will be some time before we can bring in seat belt wearing compulsorily because the majority of these vehicles cannot be fitted with seat belts because they do not have suitable anchorage points; so it is therefore not feasible on financial and engineering grounds to require installation retrospectively. In regard to seat belts for taxis and light buses, we have already laid the foundations for these. Regulations enacted in 1983 provide that by 1 January 1986 all taxis registered and manufactured after 1980 shall be fitted with seat belts for the drivers’ seats and specified passengers’ seats. This will include most taxis by 1986 because there will not be many taxis over six years old. In regard to light buses, the regulations require that since 1983 all light buses have to have seat belts fitted on their seats. There is a problem with a number of existing buses here for retrospective application, because only the most recent models do actually have anchorage points. Finally in regard to seat belts in the rear seats of private cars,we shall put detailed proposals to the Transport Advisory Committee later this year.
Oyster farming
4. MR. CHEUNG YAN-LUNG asked in Cantonese:―
經濟司於答覆本㆟在㆒九八㆔年十㆓月㆓十㆒日提出的問題時指出，很少蠔民利 用漁農處進行研究所得的資料。政府可否告知本局，是否仍然認為當時給予蠔民 的技術性指導是實際可行﹖
452 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL―9 January 1985 (The following is the interpretation of what Mr. CHEUNG Yan-lung asked.)
Further to the reply given by the Secretary for Economic Services to my question asked on 21 December 1983, which indicated that very few oyster farmers had taken advantage of the results of research done by the Director of Agriculture and Fisheries, will Government inform this Council whether the technical advice offered at that time to the oyster farmers is still considered practicable?
SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES:―Sir, in my reply to Mr. CHEUNG on 21 December 1983 I mentioned the research which had been undertaken by the Director of Agriculture and Fisheries in the early 1970s. Members will recollect that this research related to the farming of oysters in cages suspended well clear of the sea bottom. I can confirm that the technical advice offered to oyster farmers as a result of that research is still considered practicable.
MR. CHEUNG YAN-LUNG asked in Cantonese:―
閣㆘，根據本㆟訪問蠔民的時候，蠔民表示鑒於技術㆖的困難，經濟司在㆒九八 ㆔年十㆓月㆓十㆒日所提出的建議是不切實際的，政府可否對此發表意見﹖
(The following is the interpretation of what Mr. CHEUNG Yan-lung asked.)
Sir, based on my enquiries with the oyster farmers, they indicated that because of technical difficulties the proposal put forward by the Secretary for Economic Services on 21 December 1983 is impracticable. Can Government make a statement on this?
SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES:―Sir, I am not quite sure what points have been made by the oyster farmers but from various discussions that I have had with the department I think that what concerns them is the question of the depth of water. Certainly the technical advice given by the Director of Agriculture and Fisheries is still regarded as correct provided there is sufficient depth of water. We have identified a place where this method involving cages suspended can be used, that is, in Tung Chung where there is sufficient depth of water and the water is sufficiently pure. One of the problems that I think concern oyster farmers in Lau Fau Shan is the fact that the water is quite shallow there. We will look around for other sites but I am afraid I can hold out no great hopes. But we will try.
Financial assistance to oyster farmers
5. MR. CHEUNG YAN-LUNg asked in Cantonese:―
政府可否告知本局，因㆝災而致真正陷於困境的蠔民，是否有資格向漁農處申請 低息貸款或其他經濟援助﹖
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCILＺ―9 January 1985 453
(The following is the interpretation of what Mr. CHEUNG Yan-lung asked.)
Will Government inform this Council whether oyster farmers in genuine difficulties as a result of natural disasters are eligible for low interest loans or other financial assistance from the Agriculture and Fisheries Department?
SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES:―Sir, oyster farmers are, regrettably, not eligible for low interest loans or other financial assistance from any of the funds administered by the Director of Agriculture and Fisheries. In cases of genuine family hardship and for the purpose of affording personal relief in the circumstances mentioned by Mr. CHEUNG, it is possible that oyster farmers might be eligible for public assistance or assistance from the various trust funds maintained by the Director of Social Welfare.
MR. CHEUNG YAN-LUNG asked in Cantonese:―
閣㆘，蠔民是否由漁農處管理呢；為何他們不可以像其他漁民，能夠有低息貸款 呢 ﹖
(The following is the interpretation of what Mr. CHEUNG Yan-lung asked.)
Sir, are the oyster farmers a responsibility of the Agriculture and Fisheries Department? Why can’t they like other fishermen, apply for low interest loans?
SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES:―It turns on the terms and conditions of the various loan funds. Three of the four loan funds administered by the Director of Agriculture and Fisheries are specifically for fisheries, namely, the Fish Marketing Organisation Loan Fund. the Fishery Development Loan Fund and the Co-operative for American Relief Everywhere Loan Fund. These funds were established to assist the operation and development of the fishing fleet. The fourth Loan Fund, the World Refugee Year Loan Fund, was established from donations made by the United Nations High Commission for Refugees for lending to co operative societies. Sir, under the conditions governing the use of these funds, oyster farmers are not eligible for loans from any of them.
Effect of reclamation works on typhoon shelters at Shau Kei Wan, Aberdeen and Chai Wan
6. MR. CHEUNG YAN-LUNG asked in Cantonese:―
政府可否告知本局，筲箕灣、香港仔及柴灣避風塘的面積，是否因填海工程而縮 小，若然，是否會引起擠塞情況、影響 生及增加火警危險﹖
(The following is the interpretation of what Mr. CHEUNG Yan-lung asked.)
Will Government inform this Council whether the reclamation works at Shau Kei Wan, Aberdeen and Chai Wan have reduced the size of the typhoon shelters at these locations and, if so, whether this is giving rise to over-crowding; bad sanitation and increased fire harzards?
454 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL―9 January 1985
SECRETARY FOR LANDS AND WORKS:―Sir, the reclamation works at Chai Wan,Shau Kei Wan and Aberdeen have marginally reduced the size of the typhoon shelters at these locations. In general terms, this has not aggravated environmental problems such as overcrowding, poor sanitation or fire hazards and insofar as boat-squatters have been cleared and resettled in the process the problems have been ameliorated.
Pollution control
7. MR. YEUNG PO-KWAN asked:―In view of the public concern over pollution problems in Hong Kong, could Government inform this Council:
(a) are existing legislative controls effective in noise pollution;
(b) how many prosecutions have been brought about because of alleged execssive smoke emissions from motor vehicles in the past 12 months;
(c) what measures are taken against drivers who make use of their radios to warn others of kerbside smokemeter checks by the police; and
(d) what plans are there to effect the proper disposal of industrial waste water?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE:―Sir, the legislative controls on noise that we have at present are reasonably effective in dealing with the noise problems to which they apply. For example, the ban on piling noise at night is generally effective, as are the permit controls on noise from construction work between the hours of 7 p.m. and 7 a.m. and on public holidays under the Summary Offences Ordinance, as well as the control of ventilation and airconditioning noise under the Public Health and Urban Services Ordinance.
There are of course a variety of other noisy activities in Hong Kong which need to be controlled and some improvements and rationalisations are needed in the existing rather fragmented legislation dealing with noise. We are therefore preparing a comprehensive Noise Control Bill which I hope will be introduced into this Council before the end of this year.
I should stress that legislation cannot alone provide the commplete answer to environmental noise problems. It is at least as important to take steps at the planning stage of projects to reduce unnecessary noise. To this end, the Environmental Protection Agency advises government departments on the acoustical design of such projects as new housing estates, schools and roads.
There were 10 581 prosecutions in respect of excessive exhaust emissions from motor vehicles during the first 11 months of 1984. Figures for December are not yet available.
It is not an offence in law for drivers to use radio networks to warn other drivers of police road blocks. The police are, however, aware of this practice and take measures to limit its effectiveness mainly by shifting the location of kerbside checking points from time to time.
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Turning to Mr. YEUNG’S final question, industrial waste waters are in general treated and disposed of together with municipal sewage. The current programme for the provision of treatment and disposal facilities for these combined waste waters includes the construction of a total of 34 screening plants with submarine outfalls and treatment plants between 1983 and 1993 at a cost of about $3,200 million.
In addition, we are planning to introduce shortly legislative controls on the composition of industrial waste waters in specific water control zones by means of regulations to be enacted under the Water Pollution Control Ordinance. Specific controls on toxic wastes are also under consideration.
MR. YEUNG PO-KWAN:―Sir, why does it take so long to prepare a comprehensive noise pollution bill as there are already existing legislative control?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE:―Sir, in addition to the existing forms of noise control, a number of other areas have to be taken into account including other forms of construction noise, aircraft noise, and noise from a variety of industrial and trade premises. Any form of pollution control is a complicated business and we have to take into account the possible effects on the economy and this I am afraid is why it does very often take a very long time to prepare and enact a suitable legislation.
MR. YEUNG PO-KWAN:―Sir, what steps have been taken to reduce the necessary noise affecting the existing housing estates, schools and roads?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE:―Sir, the various measures that I have mentioned will all affect all parts of Hong Kong including of course housing estates, and the new measures that we intend to introduce, I hope, will considerably improve the position.
MR. YEUNG PO-KWAN:―Sir, would Government consider setting up a telephone hot line for citizens to report excessive exhaust emissions from motor vehicles?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE:―Sir, we will certainly consider that suggestion. Publicity on traffic diversion
8. MRS. NG asked in Cantonese:―
政府通常有什麼安排去通知駕車㆟士有關臨時的交通改道措施﹖ (The following is the interpretation of what Mrs. NG asked.)
456 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL―9 January 1985
What arrangements are normally made to inform drivers of any temporary changes to routing of traffic?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT:―Sir, when it is necessary to divert traffic temporarily for planned works such as road maintenance, the Transport Department informs the media through press releases and, if appropriate,conferences. When an accident or an emergency requires the closure of a road,the first priority is to deploy police at the scene, to redirect traffic with the aid of temporary traffic signs as required. In such cases the media is informed as soon as possible. if the disruption appears likely to be protracted.
MRS. NG asked in Cantonese:―
政府是否知道本月㆓日，在黃大仙區蒲崗村道實施交通改道措施，使到司機極之 混亂對市民引起不便，並且令到部份學生及㆖班的㆟士，因為改道而遲到﹖
(The following is the interpretation of what Mrs. NG asked.)
Is the Government aware of the fact that on the second of this month a re-routing arrangement in Po Kong Village Road in Wong Tai Sin was extremely confusing to the motorists and inconvenient to the pedestrians; and that office workers and students were late because of the re-routing?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT:―Sir, I regret that neither I nor, I think, the Commissioner could be aware of all incidents; but I think―they are not that many of course (laughter)―but I think that Mrs. NG may be referring to a closure of the south-bound lane of the po Kong Village Flyover. Thus, I am afraid, I must tender you an apology for a failure in the normal procedures described in my original answer (laughter), the question was ‘normally’ and I did reply on that basis (laughter). On the evening of 31 December the south-bound lane of that flyover had to be closed because of a burst water main. The police came quickly to redirect traffic and to do their part; unfortunately, probably due to it being New Year’s Eve and followed by a public holiday, the information did not get sent out to the media till 2 January. It was by then pretty old news and it did not get much coverage. I therefore do apologise to Mrs. NG and other people who were inconvenienced.
Hong Kong-China air services
9. MR. WONG PO-YAN asked:―In view of the increasing demand for flights between Hong Kong and China, and given that air traffic negotiations are handled on Hong Kong’s behalf by Her Majesty’s Government, will Government inform this Council of the steps being taken to improve Hong Kong and China air services?
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCILＺ―9 January 1985 457
SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES:―Sir, as Mr. WONG PO-yan says, there appears to be a growing demand for flights between Hong Kong and a number of Chinese cities. And, indeed, it is Her Majesty’s Government who are responsible for negotiations relating to air services touching Hong Kong.
As a first step towards exploring the question of additional services between Hong Kong and China, we have placed this subject on the agenda of the talks with United Kingdom Department of Transport officials to be held in Hong Kong at the end of this month.
MR. WONG PO-YAN:―Sir, will the Secretary for Economic Services promise to inform this Council the major points of this subject agreed to after the talks and would the Government assure this Council that in these talks the interest of Hong Kong’s airline would be borne clearly in mind?
SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES:―Yes, I should be happy to keep this Council informed of development. I didn’t quite catch what Mr. WONG Po-yan said about the assurance.
MR. WONG PO-YAN:―The interest of Hong Kong airlines.
SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES:―Yes, certainly the interest of Hong Kong travellers will be taken into account, and indeed will be forcefully argued.
Control over sale of unsafe domestic electrical appliances
10. MR. POON asked:―Will the Government inform this Council whether or not any control is exercised over the sale of structurally unsafe or hazardous domestic electrical appliances, with particular reference to electrical ‘chafing dishes’ and mains plugs and, if not, what action will the Government take to prevent unsafe electrical appliances and accessories being offered for sale in Hong Kong?
SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES:―Sir, there is no relevant legislation providing direct control over the sale of structurally unsafe or hazardous domestic electrical appliances. However, as I informed this Council on 13 June 1984 in reply to Mrs. Selina CHOW, we are planning to introduce regulations which will enable standards to be imposed for certain types of electrical fitting and appliances.
The regulations will be part of a comprehensive package of legislation governing the safe supply of electricity in Hong Kong. With regard to electrical appliances, it is intended that a new Electricity Supply Ordinance and regulations made thereunder will enable the Director of Electrical and Mechanical Services to specify certain categories of appliance, includng plugs
458 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL―9 January 1985
and chafing dishes, which will have to meet prescribed minimum safety standards before they are placed on sale to the public. And the Director will be empowered to prohibit the use or sale of any electrical appliance if he has reason to believe that it will constitute a danger to life or property. Sir, we hope to have the enabling Bill ready for consideration by Executive Council early next year.
Statements
Hong Kong Export Credit Insurance Corporation―Annual Report 1983-84
SECRETARY FOR TRADE AND INDUSTRY:―Sir, in accordance with section 28 of the Hong Kong Export Credit Insurance Corporation Ordinance the Report and Accounts of the Corporation for 1983-84 are tabled today.
In 1983-84 there was moderate growth in the Corporation’s business, with a net increase of 133 policies issued bringing the total to 1 490; a respectable increase in the value of total insured exports, which grew by about 20 per cent to $4,693 million; and an equally respectable increase in premium income, which grew by about 26 per cent to $26.3 million. As in previous years insured exports represented a little over 4 per cent of Hong Kong’s domestic exports. Europe remained the Corporation’s largest exposure area. Insured exports to European markets, which accounted for $2,778 million or 60 per cent of the total insured exports, grew by 13 per cent. Insured exports to North America, which accounted for $994 million or 21 per cent of total insured exports, registered a healthy growth rate of 52 per cent. The products covered by the Corporation remained consistent with the overall pattern of our total exports, with textiles and clothing accounting for 38 per cent, radios and electronic components for 10 per cent, and toys for 9 per cent.
Sir, when speaking on the Corporation’s Report and Accounts for 1982-83 a year ago, I said that the difficulties facing the Corporation were not yet a thing of the past. I can now report that the worst is over. The recovery in demand in world markets for Hong Kong’s manufactures, having continued into 1984-85,has led to rapid growth in the volume of the Corporation’s business. At the same time there has been a sharp decline in the incidence and severity of claims made on the Corporation, a trend which is likely to continue throughout the year.
However, there is no room for complacency. Given the opportunities presented by a year of recovery the Commissioner has undertaken a critical appraisal of the Corporation’s activities and of the nature and level of risks assumed in recent years. As a result he has drawn up a three-year plan containing financial objectives and measures to secure them which, if achieved,
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will restore the Corporation to a better state of financial health. This plan has received the benefit of the advice of the Corporation’s Advisory Board, and is now being implemented.
I am pleased to add that the reinsurance cover, which was lost to the Corporation since September 1983, and which played a vital part in reducing its losses, has now been freshly acquired.
Finally, Sir, I would like to place on record the Government’s appreciation of the work of the Corporation’s Advisory Board, and to take this opportunity to wish the Commissioner and staff of the Corporation every success in their future endeavours.
Hong Kong Trade Development Council―Annual Report and Accounts 1983-84
Introduction
MISS DUNN:―Sir, tabled today is the Annual Report of the Trade Development Council for the financial year 1983-84.
During the year under review, the international economic climate improved steadily, and Hong Kong enjoyed a satisfactory recovery in trade which has been sustained in the current financial year.
Against this background, the T.D.C. has maintained a high level of promotional activity worldwide. In particular, our strategy has been to maximise our efforts in those markets where the potential for increasing trade is greatest and where T.D.C. support is most needed.
On this basis, while ensuring the continuity of Hong Kong’s strong presence in our traditional major markets in the United States and Western Europe, We Have placed particular emphasis on developing trade with Japan and China.
Overseas activities
During the year under review, certain high profile activities―such as our promotions in New York, the Harrods in-store promotion in London and the first Hong Kong product exhibition in Guangzhou―inevitably attracted the most publicity, but it is important to put such events into the context of a broadly based programme in which many hundreds of Hong Kong’s manufacturers and exporters were put in contact with potential buyers around the world for their products.
For example, during the year under review, we organised 63 overseas trade promotions in 21 countries. These were well supported by some 650 Hong Kong manufacturers and exporters, consisting mainly of small and medium sized companies. In addition, product samples from 1 700 companies were featured in 18 trade fairs and exhibitions around the world.
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Local activities
Similarly, in Hong Kong itself, highly publicised events such as the ‘Hong Kong Wool Knitwear Show’ and the annual ‘Toy and Gift Fair’, represented only a small fraction of the T.D.C.’s total activity. We handled 170 inward missions to Hong Kong from 37 different countries. Our trade enquiry service processed some 130 000 individual enquiries during the year.
To inform local companies about our services and overseas market conditions, a large number of briefing sessions and seminars were held in collaboration with various District Borads and trade associations. Our staff made in excess of 1 500 factory visits and a new film was produced in Cantonese,English and Mandarin to introduce our services.
In addition to providing publicity support for trade promotions and disseminating news about Hong Kong’s products and industries worldwide, the T.D.C.’s press service was particularly active in providing information and countering misinformation about the 1997 issue in the international media.Associated with this initiative, we launched a monthly newspaper ‘Hong Kong Trader’, which now has a circulation of 26 500 business leaders around the world.
We also introduced a new magazine, ‘Household’, to complement our three other publications, ‘Enterprise’, ‘Toys’ and ‘Apparel’ and to provide local companies with another avenue to publicise their products.
This brief summary merely touches the surface of the year’s activities and I do hope that Members will find time to read the annual report itself for a fuller account.
Current year and future plans
During the current financial year, efforts to penetrate the Japanese market has been a major priority, and the recent economic mission and toy promotion in Tokyo complemented our programme of activities in that market.
Our second product exhibition in China will be staged in Shanghai this coming May.
We will also be assuming additional responsibilities. By agreement with the Government, the T.D.C. will take over progressively from the Government financial responsibility for the Hong Kong Shippers’ Council and the Hong Kong/Japan Business Cooperation Committee.
Apart from trade promotions, this year promises to be a significant one in other respects. We will be starting work on the Hong Kong International Exhibition Centre project which, when completed in 1988, is expected to be Asia’s largest and most sophisticated purpose-built exhibition and conference complex.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCILＺ―9 January 1985 461 Government business
Motion
WHITE PAPER ON THE FURTHER DEVELOPMENT OF REPRESENTATIVE GOVERNMENT IN HONG KONG
THE CHIEF SECRETARY moved the following motion:―
That this Council welcomes the plans and intentions described in the White Paper on the Further Development of Representative Government in Hong Kong.
THE CHIEF SECRETARY:―
Introduction
He said:―Sir, I rise to move the motion standing in my name on the Order Paper: ‘That this Council welcomes the plans and intentions described in the White Paper on the Further Development of Representative Government in Hong Kong.’
When the White Paper was laid on 21 November last year, you yourself, Sir,outlined the Government’s plans for the further development of representative government in Hong Kong. But I think it would be to remind Members, at the outset of this debate, of our obiectives and the principles upon which the proposals in the Green Paper were worked up and then amended when finalising the plans set out in the White Paper.
Objectives
Our objectives can be stated quite simply. They are, first, that the future system of representative government in Hong Kong should be rooted firmly in the community and thereby be directly accountable to the people of Hong Kong. The second objective is to provide for changes in the composition and method of selection of the Legislative Council which will ensure that it is broadly based, and which will minimise any tendency to factional politics and divisiveness. The third objective is to provide a foundation for further developments in the composition and method of selection of the Legislative Council, in the light of experience gained.
Principles
To achieve these objectives the plans in the White Paper have been based on four principles. The first principle borne in mind was that the system should be based, as far as possible, on our existing institutions and should preserve their best features, including the well-established practice of government by consensus. The second principle borne in mind was that the system should be developed gradually and progressively. The third principle borne in mind was
462 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL―9 January 1985
that a reasonable balance should be struck in the membership of the Legislative Council between elected, appointed and official members. And the fourth principle borne in mind― and very much so―was that the more representative system should not put at risk those factors which have secured the social stability and economic prosperity of Hong Kong.
In the rather longer term the application of these principles should enable three other objectives to be realised. That is to say, the application of these principles should assist us, first, to decide upon the changes which should be made in the composition, method of selection and powers of the Executive Council; secondly, to define the position of the Governor in relation to the Legislative and Executive Councils; and, thirdly, to determine how best to make the executive organs of the Government more accountable to the legislature.
The ultimate objective of the application of these principles is to ensure that a system of government is firmly established during the next twelve years which will preserve and enhance the essential features of our present society and which will ensure a smooth transition for Hong Kong from its present status as a British Dependent Territory to that of a Special Administrative Region of China, with a high degree of autonomy.
Needless to say, in preparing the plans stated in the White Paper, the provisions of the Sino-British agreement on the future of Hong Kong, which provide, inter alia, for the legislature of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region to be constituted by elections, have been taken into account.
Composition of new Legislative Council
Obviously, the first and second objectives of the plans in the White Paper which I mentioned a few moments ago will be best achieved by ensuring that the membership of the Legislative Council is representative of all major sectors of the community. So the White Paper defines how a new style Legislative Council should be assembled with effect from the 1985-86 session.
Elections will be held, in September 1985, for 24 Unofficial Members of the Council who will hold office for three years. Twelve members will be elected by an electoral college composed of all members of District Boards, the Urban Council and the Regional Council and 12 members by special functional constituencies.
Within the electoral college, District Board members will be grouped into ten geographical constituencies representing roughly 500 000 people each, while members of the Urban Council and the Regional Council will form two special constituencies. Each of these constituencies will return one member to the Legislative Council. Thus, there will be 12 members in all elected by these ‘populist’ constituencies.
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There will be nine functional constituencies representing the commercial, industrial, financial, labour and social services sectors of the community and the teaching, legal and medical and the combined engineering, architectural, planning and surveying professions.
The commercial constituency will be represented by the Hong Kong General Chamber of Commerce and the Chinese General Chamber of Commerce, while the industrial constituency will be represented by the Federation of Hong Kong Industries and the Chinese Manufacturers Association. Each of these four organisations will return one member each to the Council. The labour constituency, made up of all registered trade unions, will return two members, while the other constituencies will return one member each. Thus, 12 members in all will be elected to the Legislative Council by these functional constituencies.
At the same time, the number of appointed Unofficial Members of the Council will be reduced from the present 30 to 22; while the number of Official Members will be reduced from 16 to 1, including the three ex-officio members.
In summary, the total membership of the Legislative Council at the beginning of the next session will be increased from the present 46 to 56: there will be two categories of elected Unofficial Members, ‘populist’ and functional, and there will be 12 Members in each category; the ratio of elected Unofficial Members to appointed Unofficial Members will be 24:22; and the ratio of Unofficial Members to Official Members will be 46:10, compared with 30:16 at present, Thus, the third objective of building a foundation for further developments in the composition and method of selection of the Legislative Council has been met.
The 1987 review
The White Paper also announced the Government’s intention to conduct a review in 1987 of our experience during the first couple of years of the life of the new Council. As perceived at this time, the review will address at least four questions.
First, the review will consider what further developments in the composition and method of selection of members of the Legislative Council in 1988 and beyond should be contemplated including whether and, if so, when, at least a proportion of the Council’s membership should be made up of members directly, as opposed to indirectly, elected. Secondly, the review will consider possible developments in the powers, composition and the method of selection of the Executive Council, including ways and means of devising a link― and the extent of that link―between the Executive Council and the Legislative Council by, for example, some form of ministerial system. Thirdly, the review will consider whether there should be any changes in the position of the Governor in relation to both the Legislative Council and the Executive Council. And, fourthly, the review will consider the need for, and timing of, any further review or reviews.
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Public reaction to the White Paper
Public reaction to the Government’s plans announced in the White Paper has been generally favourable, as evidenced by reports in the media and comments made by many members of District Boards and some members of the Urban Council. There have been claims for representation through additional functional constituencies, from such organisations and groups as the Heung Yee Kuk, the Hong Kong Society of Accountants, religious bodies, the media, social workers, civil servants and ethnic minorities. These claims have been carefully considered but, for a variety of reasons, a variety of good reasons, it has not been possible to accept them, at any rate at this stage.
There clearly has to be some limit on the number of functional constituencies which can be included in the new Legislative Council to start with. Moreover, having regard to the objectives of the whole exercise, a careful balance has to be struck between the various component elements―elected, appointed, official― that will make up the new Council. This is not to say that the claims of these organisations and groups are without merit, or that they are unimportant, let alone that their contribution to the economic and social well-being of the community is not recognised. The interests of some of these organisations and groups will no doubt be reflected through Unofficial Members elected by the electoral college or appointed by you, Sir. In any case, the review in 1987 will provide an opportunity to consider whether any additional functional constituencies should be established.
Since the White Paper was published, there have also been some renewed demands for the introduction of direct elections to the Legislative Council, although there has been general acceptance that direct elections should not be introduced immediately. I should make it quite clear that, although the Government does not consider that it would be either timely or wise to introduce direct elections just now, it does not object in principle to this particular method of acquiring membership of the Legislative Council. At this stage, however, it is essential not to put at risk the harmony and stability of Hong Kong by introducing too many major constitutional reforms too rapidly, or to overload the system (including the civil service and the Administration) with too many changes simultaneously.
I should just mention here, Sir, the Government’s concern to encourage the development of civic education in Hong Kong. The plans to promote civic education in schools which were announced in this Council in July last year by the Director of Education are well in hand. A new subject of Government and Public Affairs is to be introduced. The Curriculum Development Committee has tendered advice on how to strengthen the civic education element in existing subjects and in extra-curricular activities and a comprehensive set of guidelines on promoting civic and political awareness among students is being prepared.
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Legislation
As stated in the White Paper, the electoral legislation will be along the lines of the existing Electoral Provisions Ordinance, which has proved to be generally adequate for the conduct of District Board and Urban Council Elections. The legislation is now being drafted and will cover such matters as the qualifications to be a voter, the qualifications to be a candidate, the methods by which the electoral rolls for the various constituencies will be drawn up and the procedures for conducting the elections. It will also lay down the detailed composition of the electoral college and functional constituencies.
In accordance with the undertaking given in the White Paper, a series of meetings has been held during the past six weeks or so with the representative organisations on which the functional constituencies will be based, in order to explain the main features of the legislation and the procedures which will be introduced for conducting the elections in September next. Various points have been raised by these organisations which are being given careful consideration.
The elections will be conducted by government officials, in similar fashion to that in which the District Board and Urban Council Elections are conducted already; and of course, voting will be by secret ballot.
The Government intents to publish the Legislative Council (Electoral Provisions) Bill in the Government Gazette for public information, and to introduce it into this Council for debate, within the next month or so, subject, of course, to the prior approval of the Executive Council.
Conlusion
Sir, I am confident that the plans and intentions described in the White Paper will set us firmly on the road towards meeting our stated objectives of rooting the authority of the Government of Hong Kong firmly in Hong Kong and of developing an acceptable and respected channel for the authoritative expression of the views of the people of Hong Kong. The Government of Hong Kong will thereby become more directly―and will be seen to be more directly― accountable to the people of Hong Kong. Thus, significant progress will be made towards achieving the ultimate objective of the White Paper which is to prepare the community for the new political circumstances of the future.
Accordingly, Sir, I commend the White Paper to honourable Members for their approval.
DR. FANG:―Sir, I welcome the White Paper on the Further Development of Representative Government and the changes made in response to public reactions to the Green Paper and to our earlier debate in this Council.
I believe a gradual calculated approach, in the special circumstances of Hong Kong, is the popular choice of the majority of Hong Kong people and is necessary to ensure the continued stability and prosperity of the territory.
466 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL―9 January 1985
Our first steps towards the establishment of representative government are sensibly prescribed in the White Paper. Twenty-four elected Members will join the Legislative Council this year and the position will be reviewed again in 1987.By that time the elected Members of this Council will themselves be able to contribute towards the assessment and the review. I believe they will confirm the vital importance of moving forward carefully and predictably, and development beyond 1987 can be left to their good sense.
I would like to confine my remarks this afternoon to election procedures in the functional constituencies in general and the medical constituency in particular.
There is no doubt in my mind that the functional constituency concept is an important interim measure, until such time as we have a much larger legislature with wider representation to enable candidates from small but vital professions, such as law, banking, accountancy, medicine, etc. to be elected by popular vote from the general constituencies. The expertise and professionalism of Councillors from these fields are necessary, in my view, to the efficient and progressive conduct of public affairs.
Turning now to the medical constituency, I would like to put forward a view for consideration. I am pleased to note that the Government has named the Hong Kong Medical Association as the body responsible for conducting the elections to produce the Councillor to represent the Medical constituency.
I believe that the functional constituencies should where practicable elect their candidates to the Legislative Council directly and in this case the medical constituency which is perhaps the most homogeneous group is particularly well placed to test the direct election concept and should do so.
I therefore respectfully submit that the eligibility to participate in the election in the medical constituency should not be limited to members of the Hong Kong Medical Association nor confined to registered voters in the profession only and that all practitioners whose names appear in the Hong Kong Medical Register should be allowed to nominate candidates to stand for election and to cast a vote within the constituency.
With these observations, I support the motion.
MR. TIEN:―Sir, in general terms, I wish to support the motion before us today. My sincere hope however is that Hong Kong should avoid over-rapid or illjudged political change at any level. Such change might well be harmful to our best interests.
Sir, the White Paper has presented us with a rich and varied diet of proposals; a rich diet however may, if not carefully controlled, cause indigestion, obesity and heart attacks. Let us therefore make sure that future historians do not look upon these years before us as years of futile and foolish experimentation―‘full of sound and fury signifying nothing’.
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I now turn to the question of what is sometimes called the ‘democratisation’ of Hong Kong. Now I have looked up several definitions of ‘democracy’ but I can find little to guide my thinking about Hong Kong in its present stage of development. Thus all definitions beg the question of popular government.
Sir, democracy gone wrong is a dire danger―put graphically, it is something like the art of running the circus from the money cage. Democracy gone wrong is defined as a system in which the whole is equal to the scum of the parts. If a majority tells us that 2+2=5 or if it seeks to spend money which it does not possess, then we are close not to democracy, but to dictatorship.
Sir, I am no cynic. I am, however, an advocate of balanced development. I do believe with all my heart that we should anticipate a future full of hope and development. But a well thought out future must be a measured future―a balanced future. Change is inevitable, but continuity is equally important. I am reminded of a little story. After he died, a man was asked by St. Peter whether he preferred heaven to hell. The cautious man said: ‘please don’t ask me for my opinion. You see I have friends in both places.’ Let us keep our friends therefore in both places.
As you know, Sir, my interest is in the production of trousers for the overseas market. You will recall that men once held their trousers together with buttons in an important place. Later, the button fly was replaced with a zip fastener. Of course, zips were an improvement, at least most people thought, on buttons. But no change in trousers production could be justified if, as a result, a man’s trousers were to fall off in public. We would not like Hong Kong to stand trouserless before the world.
To innovate is not always to reform. Indeed Chairman DENG Xiaoping informed us that we have a need to maintain stability and prosperity. Drastic constitutional change is ruled out by common sense as well as a need to ensure that we do not get too far out of alignment with reality.
Sir, those responsible for drafting constitutional change should not listen to those siren voices whether from at home or abroad which threaten our stability.At all costs, we must not be driven helter-skelter towards ill-considered action.
With these cautionary words, Sir, I support the motion.
MR. ALEX WU delivered his speech in Cantonese:―
督憲閣㆘；㆟類自從有史以來不斷㆞追求㆒個最理想的政治制度。古希臘的哲學 家柏拉圖和亞理士多德首次倡用民主方式來治理當時的城邦。隨 演變成各種各 式的民主政制。㆗英聯合聲明明智㆞替香港㆟選擇了其㆗之㆒，即憲制民主，來 讓香港㆟治理香港。現在就要看我們怎樣運用我們的聰明才智﹑毅力和勇氣去達 到這個崇高的理想，同時在這個過渡時期，更要致力維持本港的安定繁榮。
代議政制白皮書所訂㆘的各種步驟，是由香港政府聽取各方意見並經慎密考 慮之後作出的。白皮書內第㆒章第㆒及第㆓節所載的目標，既能在㆒九九七年前 起穩定作用而在㆒九九七年後可以負起港㆟治港的責任，目標可說非常正確。可 是自從去年七月十八日發表綠皮書之後，距今祇有短短的幾個月時間，我們是否 有-
分的能力去有效㆞實行民主化？在
468 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL―9 January 1985
此之前香港大多數市民祇求安居樂業安定繁榮而不問政事。要把這種根深蒂固的 政治冷感㆒㆘子改變過來真是談何容易！政府急謀對症㆘藥，提出公民教育，是 走了正確的路線。
根據白皮書內第五章㆔十八至㆕十節所載，㆒方面向年青㆟灌輸對政治和政 體的認識，同時鼓勵他們學習參與從政。另㆒方面對成㆟方面也㆘同樣的功夫。 本㆟認為當前的急務是對成㆟教育方面加倍 重。因為年青㆟可以經由學校方面 硬性規定接受公民教育，而且他們比成年㆟有更多時間去-
份了解和準備。我們 要想盡辦法去令到成年㆟用更嚴肅和認真的態度去接受這些㆒向被忽略的公民 教育。我特別強調成㆟教育的重要性是因為這個世界並不是完全屬於年青㆟的， 我希望成㆟與青年能打成㆒片去加緊學習這個新的制度；更呼籲家長和子女㆒同 參與㆒切 政治性 的活動，㆒方 面加㆖ 學校的 輔導，這樣 雙管齊 ㆘，必 然事半 功倍。
我們不要忘記我們現在才開始學習民主，等於「惡性補習」。要趕緊在短短 的歲月裡把民主真締消化後才能適當㆞運用。擺在眼前就有無數的例子，顯示濫 用民主真締的政體所產生的悲劇。群眾被㆒小撮㆟利用作為政治資本和工具是常 見的現象。坦白㆞說，大部份市民在言談間都表示對登記為選民尚未有足夠的認 識和-
份的心理準備，更談不到如何去盡選民的義務和責任。那麼政府在公民教 育㆗有無特別教導選民去深切㆞認識到他們的權利和義務呢？
我們要知道在今年九月就會有十㆓位議員經選舉團選出，另外十㆓位將由功 能團體選出。即是說間接選舉代替了現有的全部委任制度。目前議員都是由政府 根據他們多年來對社會服務的資歷挑選出來的。在功能團體選舉辦法尚未公佈之 前，我想問問選舉團有沒有可能擁有如政府所具備的詳細資料和「工具」以作提 名參選㆟的根據，推舉他們來擔任立法局議席？同時選民在選舉區議員市政局和 區域議員之時是否明確㆞瞭解選舉團祇擔任「物色」以及「推選」的任務。我希 望政府在迫在眉睫的情況㆘能夠澄清在所謂公民教育㆗除了指導之外有無方法 考驗全體選民對他們的責任瞭解的程度？忙碌的市民是否願意及有時間來接受 這種教育？
此外，香港㆟首次面臨政治性的挑戰。在實行新體制時，我們當然會遇 不 勝枚舉的困難（例如功能團體的組成和將來專業標準種種問題）。幸好我們在㆒ 九八七年有機會作㆒全面性檢討。本㆟特別強調此檢討的重要性，因為藉此可以 確保新政制更為健全。
閣㆘，毫不懷疑，香港在政府引導和市民合作之㆘，將會成功㆞走㆖港㆟治 港的道路。
現在的香港就好比㆒家行將㆖市的大企業公司。它不但希望維持多年輝煌的 業績（繁榮），更希望在新舊賢能董事們共同努力管治之㆘加以發揚光大。在㆖ 市過程之前後都要加倍小心處理，謹慎同事，以免產生混亂，有誤大業。在此謹 祝㆖市過程順利，㆒切希望和理想早日實現！㆖市之日，牌價不會低於底價，此 後㆒帆風順。
督憲閣㆘，本㆟謹此陳詞，支持當前動議。
(The following is the interpretation of what Mr. Alex Wu said.)
Your Excellency, from the beginning of history, man has constantly been in search of the ideal form of government. Greek philosophers Plato and Aristotle were the first to advocate a democratic form of government for the cities and states of their time. This idea evolved into various democratic political systems down the ages. The Sino-British Joint Declaration has wisely chosen one of these systems for Hong Kong people i.e. constitutional democracy, which allows them to govern the territory. It is now up to use to achieve this lofty
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCILＺ―9 January 1985 469
ideal by means of our intelligence, determination and courage, and to work hard for the preservation of Hong Kong’s prosperity and stability during this transition period.
The policies laid down in the White Paper on Representative Government were arrived at by the Government after careful consideration of public views. The aims of the White Paper, as set out in paragraphs 1 and 2 of Chapter 1, will have a stabilising effect before 1997 and, at the same time, prepare Hong Kong people for self-rule after 1997. These objectives can be said to be very correct. But it has only been a few months since the Green Paper was published in July 18 last year, are we fully capable of introducing democratic reforms during this short period? Hitherto, Hong Kong people have shown little interest in politics; all they ask for is a peaceful, prosperous and stable life. It is, therefore, hardly easy to change this deep-rooted political apathy overnight. The Government is quick to seek the right cure by introducing civic education. This is indeed a right move.
It is stated in paragraphs 38-40 of the White Paper that young people should be educated more comprehensively in political and constitutional matters and, at the same time, be encouraged to learn about participation in politics. Adults should also be given the same opportunity. In my opinion, the education of adults should be given greater priority because young people have the chance to receive civic education according to prescribed curriculum in school and have more time than adults to prepare themselves. But we must seek ways and means to encourage our adult citizens to take civic education seriously. I put particular emphasis on the importance of adult education because this world does not wholly belong to youths and it is my hope that adults and youths alike will lose no time in learning about this new system of government. Parents are urged to join their children in participating in political activities. This, coupled with the guidance received in school, will make our efforts doubly effective.
We must bear in mind that we have just begun to learn about democracy, which is like embarking on a remedial course with which we must hasten to digest the essence of democracy before we can make proper use of it. Right in front of us are numerous examples of the tragedies brought about by the abuse of demnocracy by many a government. It is common to see the masses being used by a small handful of people as political stock and tool. Frankly speaking, most people have expressed, in their daily conversations, that they know little about and are not psychologically prepared for registration of voters, not to mention the obligations and duties of a voter. Has the government, when drawing up their programmes for civic education, any specific plans to heighten the voters’ awareness of their rights and duties?
We must be aware that in September this year, 12 members will be elected to the Legislative Council by the electoral college and another 12 by functional constituencies. That is to say, indirect election will take the place of the present system whereby all members are appointed. At present, members are selected
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by the Government according to their record of community service over the years. Before the election procedures of functional constituencies are announced, I would like to ask if it is possible for the electoral college to possess such detailed information and readily-available facilities, as those possessed by the Government, for nominating candidates to sit on the Legislative Council.And, when electing District Board members, Urban Councillors and Regional Councillors, are the voters clearly aware that the electoral college is only playing the role of ‘selection’ and ‘nomination’? Under these pressing circumstances, I hope the Government will clarify if civic education provides, apart from guidance, any means of testing of the average voter’s understanding of his obligations? Are Hong Kong people, who are always hard pressed for time, willing to receive this kind of education and can they afford the time for it?
Furthermore, this is the first time for Hong Kong people to face a political challenge. In implementing a new system of government, we are certain to encounter countless difficulties, for example, questions like the forming of functional constituencies. Fortunately we have a chance in 1987 to carry out a comprehensive review. I stress the importance of this review because it can help to ensure that the new system will work well.
Sir, I have no doubt that under the leadership of the Government and the cooperation of the public, Hong Kong will move successfully towards ‘Hong Kong people ruling Hong Kong’.
Hong Kong today is like a big company about to be listed. It hopes not only to maintain its glorious achievement (prosperity), but also to do even better under the joint administration of its able directors, both old and new. The directors should exercise great caution both before and after the listing, to avoid confusion and loss to the company’s business. I hereby wish the company every success in its listing and the early realisation of its ideals. I hope that when it goes public, the listing price will not be lower than the par value and I wish it smooth sailing ahead.
Sir, with these remarks, I support the motion.
MR. S. L. CHEN:―Sir, any political reform in Hong Kong must have full regard to maintaining and preserving social stability and economic prosperity, which is the declared common aim of both the Governments of Britain and China.
In my speech to this Council on 24 October last year in response to Your Excellency’s address, I stressed the importance of building a solid foundation on which a sound governmental system could be developed and flourish in the years to come. In addition, I also raised the point that there had to be enough time for the system to evolve gradually and, more importantly, for people of the right calibre serving the system to emerge.
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Following the same line, I welcome the White Paper on the Further Development of Representative Government in Hong Kong which you, Sir, tabled in this Council on 21 November 1984. No doubt the proposals in the White Paper were drawn up after careful consideration of the views expressed by the community, crystallising those measures outlined in the Green Paper which are ready for immediate implementation.
Sir, in my capacity as the convener of the UMELCO Constitutional Affairs Panel, I am pleased to note that the proposals contained in the White Paper were broadly in line with the recommendations made by UMELCO, with only one deviation concerning the future composition of the Legislative Council. Instead of the original ratio of 12 indirectly elected memers to 23 appointed members as envisaged in the Green Paper, the White Paper put forward a new ratio of 24:22, which is slightly below the parity distribution of 24:24 as suggested by UMELCO. As far as the number of elected members is concerned, the White Paper proposal has in fact brought forward the Green Paper proposal for 1988 to 1985. As the first step towards a representative form of government, the proposed move is, in my opinion, both fast enough and far enough, but we must make sure that further steps should only be taken on the basis of satisfactory progress, which I am sure will be regularly monitored and taken into consideration in the 1987 review. In no way should we pre-empt the findings of the review, otherwise we would be denying ourselves two years valuable experience which we can ill afford to lose.
Since the publication of the White Paper, UMELCO have received a substantial number of representations. They ranged from criticisms on the short-sightedness of the proposals; the lack of clear guidelines on the implementation of the election procedures for functional constituencies; inadequate representation from the Heung Yee Kuk; and the failure to give a firm pledge for direct election. They have all been referred to the Administration, but from what I have just heard in the Chief Secretary’s opening speech of this debate, I have no doubt these problems will be addressed in an appropriate manner.
The Green Paper on Representative Government aroused a heated debate on the question of direct and indirect elections, and had, to some extent, shifted the focus of discussion throughout the entire consultation period. However, to the dismay of some people, the White Paper did not address this major controversy and no conclusion was drawn from the arguments and counter arguments put forward. The Sino-British Joint Declaration stated that the future executive authorities should be accountable to the legislature. Again, the White Paper failed to examine the future relationships between the Legislature, the Executive and the Administration, though it recognised the bearing of the Joint Declaration on the development of representative government in Hong Kong. I am sure Government is aware of the urgency and significance of these matters and would give serious thoughts to them in the coming years before the review in 1987.
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Some people have questioned the rationale behind the choice of functional groups and complained about the process of nominating and electing future Legislative Council candidates on the basis of member organisations in some particular groups. In both cases the argument was that the interest of individual members in those groups could not be properly represented. I believe that the choice of functional groups should be such that a balanced composition of the future Legislative Council could be ensured, so that the Council would be equipped with the necessary expertise to discharge its functions in an effective manner. The underlying philosophy of election through functional constituencies was therefore to enable the various ‘functions’ to contribute to the community, rather than for the interests of those groups to be protected in the Legislative Council. Hong Kong is facing an important change and we need to demonstrate public spirit, not selfishness.
Although the provision in the White Paper will be implemented, the people of Hong Kong should continue to put forward their views, especially on problems arising from nominations, elections and the functioning of the future Legislative Council. They will be useful inputs to the review which will taken place in two years’ time. The Government, on the other hand, should carefully monitor opinions expressed throughout the period leading to the review and should extend the consultation network as wide as possible.
Sir, we are venturing into establishing a unique form of government which will suit the special circumstances we will be facing and it is utterly important to get the steps right. To use the Prime Minister’s words, ‘We must avoid sudden and dramatic changes which might have a disturbing effect. We need to build but build carefully and securely.’ We cannot afford to run the risk of making mistakes-mistakes which may jeopardise Hong Kong’s stability and prosperity.
Sir, with these words, I support the motion.
MISS DUNN:―
Introduction
She said:―Sir, the Government’s stated intentions in the White Paper are, in my view, timely and relevant to our present circumstances. But, as we consider the political change envisaged in the Sino-British agreement and as we embark upon the further development of representative government in Hong Kong, we should seek to ensure that this new phase in our history does not involve a sharp break with the past. That is to say, whatever may be the ultimate form and structure of the government of Hong Kong, we must preserve the Hong Kong style and the Hong Kong system intact or as the Chief Secretary said just now, the more representative system should not put at risk those factors which have secured the social stability and economic prosperity of Hong Kong. Thus all of
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us, whether we be appointed members or, later on, elected members of this Council, have a responsibility to understand and appreciate the determinants of Hong Kong’s survival and success.
I believe, Sir, there are four determinants which deserve our particular attention. These are a commitment to a free market economy; the exercise of restraint by the Government; an approach to the decision making process of government which seeks a consensus and avoids dispute; and an absence of divisive forces.
Free mark economy
To begin with the role of the free market economy: Hong Kong’s raison d’etre lies in its continued economic success. Given our dependence on external trade and its inevitable vulnerability to adverse external events, economic success requires that the Government must have continual regard to the need to maintain the external competitiveness of the economy. Traditionally this has been achieved by allowing, as far as possible, the discipline of the market to operate freely and by a commitment to the free enterprise system. So, for many years, the Government’s policy stance has been characterised by minimum intervention in the economy, except to the extent necessary to provide a consistent and predictable fiscal, legal, administrative and regulatory environment within which business can be carried on. If this policy stance is eroded, then the likelihood of our turning in a successful economic performance in the future will be remote.
Exercise of restraint by the Government
It is little use, however, maintaining the outward forms of a free society and the free enterprise system, which has served Hong Kong so well, if the reality and substance are destroyed, by the pervasive influence of government. The best understood virtue of the market economy is that it is much more efficient at delivering (and selling) goods and services than a managed economy. But, in addition, the market economy enlarges the scope for the individual to make his own decisions and choices instead of having them made for him by a bureaucracy which inevitably becomes remote and insensitive. To work out one’s life according to one’s own will and desires is of the very essence of individual freedom and human dignity. Yet there is always the danger, even in Hong Kong, of expecting too much of the Government. There is certainly a tendency to imagine that the Government can and should cure all the ills that afflict society and to blame the Government when it fails to do so. So, even in Hong Kong, there are fairly continuous calls for the Government to favour soft policy options and to right all wrongs to the point of relieving people and enterprises of all sense of individual responsibility. If such calls are heeded, Hong Kong will not survive as a dynamic and non-institutionalised caring society.
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The consensual approach
The people of Hong Kong by and large direct very little of their mental energies towards politics and political theory, but they do have an almost intuitive recognition of the significance of the role of consultation in the ordering of public affairs here. Coupled with this there has emerged over the years a public expectation of consultation in respect both of specific major issues and the generality of government policies and programmes that determines the nature and quality of life in Hong Kong.
So Hong Kong has been governed on the basis of a consensual approach and we have, generally speaking, avoided adversarial politics. That is to say, we have avoided that style of politics which tends either to personalise issues or to losesight of the policy objectives in a welter of argument. On the whole, we do not waste time or human effort on extraneous issues and, because of the absence of adversarial politics, we have been free to tackle issues, no matter how difficult they are, head on and avoid those corruptive forces which have plagued the political life of so many countries, East and West.
To achieve a true consensus requires the seeking out of willing and able representatives of a broad spectrum of interests and views. It is perhaps arguable whether, under our system of nominated appointments, such people have always been identified. Be that as it may, Hong Kong people will now have the opportunity to offer themselves for public office but if, on being elected, they discard the realities of our economic situation, if they carelessly seek to invoke the aid of Government for sectional interests and if they reject the consensual approach, then woe betide the economic prosperity and social stability of this city of ours.
Absence of divisive forces
This brings me to the absence of divisive forces. We have in Hong Kong a stable and harmonious community which matches, I believe, the consensual tradition in government. There is a convergence here of people of many races and beliefs which in part reflects, and in part has conferred upon, Hong Kong that international dimension without which Hong Kong would not be a major centre of commerce, industry and finance. Our future would indeed be in jeopardy if, by one route or another, divisive forces begin to emerge.
Conclusion
So, while a representative form of government brings with it new challenges, the people of Hong Kong, have a responsibility to rise to these challenges without losing sight of four determinants which I believe have made Hong Kong what it is today and which are fundamental to its future survival and success.
What happens to Hong Kong in the years ahead may not entirely depend on us alone. But the quality of our united response to situations and challenges presently unforeseen will be significant. We must not put our future at risk in
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the pursuit of self-centred goals. Those of us in public life now, and in the future, must adhere to certain ethical principles in our approach to our duties and we must avoid destructive divisions among ourselves. We must think positively and set about mastering situations in a practical way. The Government, Unofficial Members of the Councils and everyone else in public life, must provide the necessary leadership. And leadership does not just mean making the right decisions on complex issues. It means having a perception of the best means of securing the well-being of all sections of the community and a commitment to that perception.
Sir, I support the motion.
MR. PETER C. WONG:―Sir, in more ways than one 1984 was a momentous year for Hong Kong. The months of intensive activities culminating in the historic signing of the Sino British Accord on 19 December 1984 will go down in the history as the most significant period in Hong Kong’s existence. It was a year permeated with a helpless feeling of uncertainty, fluctuating fortunes, much soul-searching and painful decision making. One redeeming feature was the heightening of civic awareness, which certainly augured well for our political development. Hong Kong has now entered a new era, with 1985 offering new hopes as well as opportunities.
In her address to this Council on 20 December, the Prime Minister said:
‘We have over 12 years to prepare together for the changes which lie ahead. I believe you will rise to the challenge and that the spirit, the enterprise and the prosperity of Hong Kong will flourish and will endure.’
The White Paper we are discussing this afternoon undoubtedly forms a vital component of the changes that will have to take place. In that sense, 1985 will also be a historic year as it will witness major constitutional development at central government level, with the promise of further development in the years ahead.
I spoke at some length in this Council on 2 August last year on the proposals of the Green Paper. There is little I could add at this stage as I remain convinced that the underlying philosophy of the proposed constitutional development is one that will best serve the overall interests of Hong Kong.
However, I welcome the revised plans for 1985 and the decision to carry out a review in 1987 to assess progress made in the development of representative government. Obviously, in preparing the White Paper, Government has taken into account public response to the Green Paper. Some, of course, will be pleased that further consideration will be given to direct election in the context of the review.
It is heartening to note from the Chief Secretary’s opening speech that the 1987 review will also consider possible developments regarding the Executive
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Council, some form of ministerial system, the position of the Governor in relation to both the Legislative and the Executive Councils as well as the need for and the timing of any further review. Naturally, these are vital matters which must be addressed.
In my view, paragraph 6 of the White Paper contains a key statement―the recognition of the need to keep in mind the provisions of the agreement on the future of Hong Kong, and to frame our plans accordingly. The fact is: Hong Kong is not heading for independence but will become a Special Administrative Region of China. Paragraph 6 serves as a timely reminder that in the further development of representative government, it would be wrong to lose sight of the fact that Hong Kong will ultimately be directly under the authority of China.
As long as we bear this in mind, we should proceed as planned. The present proposals, although dealing mainly with this year’s election and appointment to the Legislative Council, are nevertheless a realistic and practical framework for constitutional development during the next few years. They represent a cautious but solid step towards developing a representative government suited to the unique circumstances of Hong Kong―a step which, I believe, most people would endorse.
Some would say that Government is trying to rush through an important package hurriedly put together. On the face of it, there may seem to be some justification in such statement, but the fact remains that we have only 12 years to develop a system of government which is more directly accountable to the people. Time is not really on our side. The need to act decisively and expeditiously is self-evident.
However, the making of plans is one thing, their implementation is another. Undeniably, implementation is not going to be easy, particularly with regard to functional constituencies. Much hard work and co-ordination remains to be done. Many, however, believe that the Administration is well poised to meet any problems that might arise. Since so much is at stake, Government is expected to do a good and thorough job. Indeed, there is little room for error.
In the meantime, public consultation should continue, and in the light of comments and experience gained from implementation of the proposals, careful thought should be given to the further stages of development after 1985. And appropriate plans formulated accordingly. It would be useful to remember that it would not be possible to create a representative government unless the people and their existing institutions are ready for it. In this context, Government’s endorsement of a wider range of civic education in response to popular demand deserves our unqualified support.
The success of the further development of representative government will in the final analysis be largely dependent upon the degree of active participation by the people of Hong Kong at all levels. A concerted effort must be made to be
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positively involved not only in civic affairs but also in all matters concerning the future of Hong Kong. In this way and in this way alone can our stability and prosperity be maintained.
Sir, I have much pleasure in supporting the motion.
4.10 p.m.
HIS EXCELLENCY THE PRESIDENT:―At this point, Members might like a short break. 4.25 p.m.
HIS EXCELLENCY THE PRESIDENT:―Council will resume.
MR. WONG LAM delivered his speech in Cantonese:―
督憲閣㆘：若區議會的成立為「港㆟治港」踏出了非正式的㆒步，則代議政制白 皮書的建議可算是為「港㆟治港」踏出正式的㆒步，也是審慎的㆒步。
白皮書的建議，幾乎完全局限於立法局議員於未來兩年任命的改革㆖。白皮 書提議由八五年起，將有十㆓位議員由選舉團選出，十㆓位由按社會功能劃分的 選民組別選出，廿㆓位由港督委任，另有十位官守議員。全體議員共五十六㆟。
在目前的情況㆘，倉卒㆞立即進行直接選舉立法局議員相信弊多於利（有關 這方面的討論經已極多），所以在這期間以折衷的辦法由選舉團推選立法局議員 不失為明智之舉，但從較長遠的觀點而言，香港無論如何都會踏進直接選舉的年 代，所以這種非直接性的選舉祇可作㆒時權宜之策，政府必須盡最大努力，製造 適宜直接選舉的環境，例如加強公民教育，促進市民對政治問題的關注和認識，
以便八○年代末期市民有能力直接選任賢能，出任為立法局議員，使立法局議員 更具代表性，「有-
份權威代表香港㆟的意見，同時更能直接向港㆟負責」。本 ㆟認為直接選舉將是大勢所趨，政府不必等待㆒九八七年的檢討時才得出這樣的 結論，所以應當立即 手為製造適宜直接選舉的環境而努力，例如加強公民教 育，鼓勵更多市民登記為選民，甚至解決技術㆖的困難而使全體持有成㆟身份證 者都自動成為選民等。
有 關 選 舉 團 的 劃 分，本 ㆟ 認 為：約 五 十 萬 ㆟ 的 區 議 會 才 成 為 ㆒ 組 的 要 求 過 高 ， 如有可能應將此數目向㆘調整，使被推選出來的議員能更有效㆞代表所屬區域。 此外，白皮書附錄㆙將發展程度頗為不同的北區﹑大埔區和沙田區合成㆒組已有 可爭論之處，而將荃灣區與離島區及西貢區合成㆒組更屬於不自然的結合，因為 無論從㆞理㆖，從區域性質㆖而言，這結合都帶有牽強的成份。
白皮書的另㆒提議，即按社會功能劃分的選民組別選出立法局非官守議員的 安排，引起頗大爭論。部份㆟士甚至反對這種安排，認為賦予小部份具專業資格 市民另外㆒票或多票的特權。本㆟對這些批評並不贊同。誠如白皮書第十㆓段所 言：「鑑於本港財經界及專業㆟士對維繫香港前途的信心和繁榮，關係重大，
故……這些㆟士應有-
分的代表權」。香港現狀的保持，極為依賴繁榮的持續， 使這些與維繫香港繁榮極有關係的㆟士在立法局有代表和發言權，在加強投資信 心和保留㆟才㆖具有積極意義，本㆟極為支持，甚至認為這種安排應該長遠㆞繼 續㆘去，與將來的直接選舉並行不悖，相輔相成，不應當作權宜的措施。
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部份㆟士批評這樣推選出來的非官守議員祇會 重所屬團體的利益，而違反全體市 民的利益。本㆟認為這種看法太過武斷。個別團體的利益並不㆒定與全體市民的利益相 違背。容許個別團體以內行㆟的眼光對有關問題表示意見往往利多於弊。退㆒步而言， 即使個別團體代表罔顧全體公益而作出祇利該行業的提議，立法局亦有其他數目眾多的 議員起均衡作用。
不過，本㆟認為這樣推選議員的安排有數點值得商確之處。（㆒）白皮書不必要過 份 ㆞ 重議員數目的均衡，將這類議員數目局限為十㆓名，以便全體議員數目不超過五 十六名。這樣使㆒些明顯的功能團體被排除出局。本㆟認為政府有需要酌量增加功能團 體的數目，使這類議員的代表性更為廣泛。（㆓）白皮書並無詳細說明以何種標準甄選 某㆒功能團體可派代表入立法局。雖然對某些行業而言，這種標準並不容易訂定，但這 步驟實在是無可避免的工作，政府有必要及早說明以利推選工作的進行。（㆔）立法局 工作繁重，議員對整個政府行政架構和運作必須有-
份的瞭解才能作積極的貢獻。功能 團體的代表直接被推選出任立法局議員未必是最妥善的安排。政府有必要作輔助性的安 排，儘早委任更多這些團體的代表為區議員或各重要諮詢委員會成員，為這些代表將來 有可能被推選為立法局成員作適當的準備。（㆕）為免功能團體推選代表的方法不㆒，
政府應考慮規定祇有經全體會員大會推選之代表才具合法㆞位。（五）為免各代表功能 團體的立法局議員更換過頻，政府有必要考慮訂定這類代表在正常情況㆘的最短任期。
白皮書的另㆒提議是保留港督直接委任議員的安排。本㆟同意白皮書第㆓十段所 說：「 若 要 維 持 立 法 局 工 作 ㆖ 的 連 貫 性，則 在 現 階 段 把 委 任 議 員 ㆟ 數 明 顯 或 過 急 ㆞ 削 減 ， 實屬不智，因為委任議員的立法局工作經驗十分寶貴，不容失去」。不過本㆟認為這裡 有數點值得考慮之處。（㆒）隨 選舉團選出（或由直接選舉選出）和功能團體推選出 的議員㆟數的增加，及這類推選出來的議員經驗的累積，委任議員的數目應逐步減少。 這 樣 立 法 局 才 能 日 趨「 有 -
分 權 威 代 表 香 港 ㆟ 的 意 見，同 時 更 能 直 接 向 港 ㆟ 負 責 」。（㆓） 委任議員應為社會的頂尖兒精英，其委任與本身的專業或職業背景無關係。換言之，委 任制不應被當作補償某些未被界定可以選派代表為議員的功能團體的安排。舉例而言， 假如醫學界有某些傑出之士未被香港醫學會推選為立法局議員，而其才﹑識及社會工作 經驗皆極適宜-
當立法局議員重任者，政府應當義無反顧㆞加以委任，而不必因為某㆒ 行業未被列入功能團體而補償性㆞委任不符要求㆟士作立法局議員。
閣㆘，以㆖為本㆟對白皮書各項主要提議的看法。除此之外，本㆟認為有必要兼論 白皮書所略去的數點問題。（㆒）白皮書除了提及立法局議員的任命問題外，並無相應 ㆞提及如何增加立法局監察政府行政的權力。本㆟認為並無特別理由要等兩年後才檢討 這問題，因為這根本是可以獨立討論的問題。（㆓）白皮書亦無提及立法局議員與行政 局議員的關係。本㆟認為既然討論立法局議員的任命，亦有必要討論兩局議員的關係。
假如立法局要更有效㆞監察政府行政的運行，其非官守成員便不應兼具行政局成員身 份，因為後者負有制訂政策的任務。儘早將行政與立法（及監察）架構分清楚是有必要 的 。
閣㆘，整體而言，白皮書所涉及的改革比綠皮書要少得多，而將許多重要問題，例 如直接選舉﹑行政局的架構﹑港督的立法局主席㆞位問題等全部付諸㆒九八七年的檢討 來研究。明顯㆞，八七年的檢討極為重要。本㆟謹望八七年的檢討能為政制改革踏出更 成功的㆒步。
閣㆘，本㆟支持此項動議。
(The following is the interpretation of what Mr. WONG Lam said.)
Sir, if the setting up of the District Boards is a tentative step towards ‘Hong Kong people ruling Hong Kong’, the White Paper on Representative
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCILＺ―9 January 1985 479 Government can be regarded as a formal and cautious step towards this same direction.
Almost all the proposals contained in the White Paper are confined to changes in the appointment of Legislative Council members during the next two years. According to the White Paper, starting from 1985, 12 Unofficial members of the Legislative Council will be elected by the electoral college, another 12 Unofficial members will be elected by the functional constituencies, 22 Unofficial members will be appointed by the Governor, and the number of Official members will be reduced to ten, making a total of 56 members.
Under the present circumstances, the disadvantages of introducing direct elections abruptly to the Legislative Council far outweigh the advantages.(Much has been said already on this subject.) Thus it is indeed sensible at this stage to have Legislative Council members returned by the electoral college. Nonetheless, in the long run, direct elections will become a matter of course in Hong Kong. Indirect elections can, therefore, only serve an expedient purpose. The Government should thus strive to create conditions suitable for direct elections by promoting civic education vigorously and fostering public interest in politics, so that by the end of the eighties, Hong Kong people will be ready to choose capable persons into the Legislative Council through direct elections. Members of the Legislative Council will then be more representative and in a position ‘to represent authoritatively the views of the people of Hong Kong’. In my opinion, direct election is an inevitable development; the Government does not have to wait until the 1987 review to come to this conclusion. Therefore, it should immediately set about creating the right conditions for direct elections, for example, by fostering civic education, encouraging more people to register as voters and even by solving technical problems such as introducing procedures which enable all adult identity card holders to become voters automatically.
As regards the grouping within the electoral college, I consider the grouping of a district or districts with populations of 500 000 as one constituency to be rather demanding. The number should, if possible, be adjusted downwards so that the the members elected by the various constituencies of the electoral college can more effectively represent their respective constituencies. In addition, the grouping of North District, Tai Po and Sha Tin into one constituency, as set out in Appendix A of the White Paper, is open to question as these three districts have not attained the same level of development. The grouping of Tsuen Wan, Island District and Sai Kung into one constituency is even more unnatural as such a combination of districts with different characteristics is hardly justifiable from a geographical point of view.
Another proposal in the White Paper, which concerns the arrangements for electing Unofficial members to the Legislative Council by functional constituencies, has given rise to much controversy. Some people even object to the idea, claiming that such arrangements will allow a few professionals to enjoy the privilege of having one additional vote or more. I do not agree to such
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criticisms. As stated in paragraph 12 of the White Paper, ‘… that full weight should be given to representation of the economic and professional sectors of Hong Kong society which are essential to future confidence and prosperity’, the maintenance of the status quo in Hong Kong depends, to a large extent, on the continuation of prosperity. To let these people, who have an important bearing on the continuation of prosperity in Hong Kong, maintain representation and a voice in the Legislative Council will help to increase investors’ confidence and retain local talents. I fully support such arrangements which, I feel, should even be maintained indefinitely side by side with direct elections in future and should not be treated merely as a stop gap measure.
Some critics hold that Unofficial members elected in this way will only concern themselves with the interests of the groups to which they belong, at the expense of the interests of the whole community. I consider this view too arbitrary. The interests of individual groups may not necessarily go against those of the whole community. In fact, it is often better to allow individual groups to give expert opinions on matters related to their respective fields. Even if the representatives of certain groups do venture to put forward proposals only to the advantage of their own professions in total disregard of public interests, there are still many other members in the Council to keep an effective balance.
Nevertheless, in my opinion, this arrangement of returning Unofficial members to the Legislative Council has given rise to certain considerations. Firstly, the White Paper puts too much emphasis on the balanced composition of the members, limiting each category of the elected members to 12 to ensure that the total number of members will not exceed 56. This results in some major functional constituencies being kept out of the threshold of the Legislative Council. I personally feel there is a need for the Government to increase, with discretion, the number of functional constituencies with a view to enlarging the representation of the members in this category. Secondly, the White Paper does not mention in detail the criteria by which the functional constituencies are chosen. Although it is not easy to lay down clear guidelines for some of the professions, it is nevertheless a necessary task for the Government which should be carried out as early as possible to facilitate the elections. Thirdly, the Legislative Council is under heavy pressure of work, so members must have a thorough understanding of the government machinery and public administration before they are able to function effectively. Therefore, the direct entry of members from the functional constituencies through indirect election to the Legislative Council may not be the best arrangement. It is necessary for some supportive measures to be taken by the Government, such as appointing more representatives of these bodies to the District Boards or major advisory committees, whereby they can be properly prepared to take up the responsibilities they may have to assume once they are elected to the Council. Fourthly, to avoid inconsistency in the method of election of representatives by the functional constituencies, the Government should specify that only those chosen by general election within a constituency can become eligible for
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCILＺ―9 January 1985 481
membership in the Council. Fifthly. to avoid a great turnover of the members from the functional constituencies, there is a need for the Government to decide upon their minimum term of office under normal circumstances.
Another proposal in the White Paper is to retain the arrangements for members to be appointed by the Governor. I agree with paragraph 20 of the White Paper which says: ‘If an element of continuity is to be maintained in the Legislative Council, it would be unwise to reduce appreciably or too hastily the number of appointed members at this stage, for their experience in the workings of the Council should not be lost.’ However, I think that there are several points here which deserve our consideration. Firstly, as the number of members elected by the electoral college (or by direct election) and by the functional constituencies increases and as they gain more and more experience, the number of appointed members should be reduced gradually. The Legislative Council will thus be able ‘to represent authoritatively the views of the Hong Kong people’ and be ‘more directly accountable to the Hong Kong people’. Secondly, the appointed members should be the elite of the local community and their professional background should have no bearing on their appointment. In other words, the appointment system should not be used to compensate those professions which have not been identified as functional constituencies eligible for returning members to the Council. For example, if an outstanding member of the medical profession has not been returned as a member to the Legislative Council by the Hong Kong Medical Association but his knowledge and working experience would make him a good Legislative Councillor, the Government should have no hesitation in appointing him. Unqualified persons should not be appointed merely to compensate for the fact that a certain profession has not been identified as a functional constituency.
Sir, the above are my views on the major proposals the White Paper. In addition, I think it is also necessary to discuss several points not mentioned in the White Paper: Firstly, the White Paper, apart from dealing with the appointment of members of the Legislative Council, does not make any reference as to how the Council can be better empowered to monitor the administration of the Government. I do not see any particular reason for deferring the review of this question for two years as it is an independent issue. Secondly, the relation between members of the Legislative and Executive Councils are not mentioned in the White Paper. In my opinion, if the appointment of Legislative Council members has been discussed, it is also necessary to examine the relation between members of the two Councils. If the Legislative Council is to be more effective in monitoring government administration, its Unofficial members should not at the same time be members of the Executive Council because the latter is responsible for the formulation of government policies. Therefore it is necessary to draw a line between the executive and legislative (as well as monitoring) bodies as soon as possible.
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Sir, the reforms mentioned in the White Paper are, on the whole, fewer than those in the Green Paper. Many major issues like direct elections, the set up of the Executive Council, the Governor’s position as president of the Legislative Council, etc., are all put off for review in 1987. The 1987 review will obviously be of utmost importance and I hope it will mark a more successful step forward in administrative reform.
Sir, I support the motion.
DR. HO:―Sir, the proposals embodied in the White Paper on The Further Development of Representative Government in Hong Kong are the results of extensive public consultation. The main feature of the White Paper is the introduction of indirect elections to the Legislative Council. In 1985, 12 Unofficial members of the Legislative Council will be elected by electoral college constituencies and another 12 by specific functional constituencies. The Green Paper proposals concerning the composition of the Legislative Council have been brought forward from 1988 to 1985 in the White Paper. This should be welcomed by the public, particularly pressure groups who have asked for more rapid progress in the development of representative government. The White Paper contains no definite commitment to reform Executive Council or to change the position and role of the Governor. Neither has it any plan for reforms beyond 1985.
In accordance with paragraph 3 of the Sino-British Joint Declaration, Hong Kong will become a Special Administrative Region of the People’s Republic of China after 1997 with a high degree of autonomy. It is also stipulated in the agreement that the legislature should be constituted by elections. In order to ensure that the people of Hong Kong can administer Hong Kong effectively after 1997, it is imperative that Hong Kong should develop a system of representative government before 1997.
In our march towards representative government, we must remember that our future as a Special Administrative Region depends on our stability and prosperity as an international financial and trade centre and our ability to contribute towards China’s modernisation programmes and new economic policies. Furthermore, the maintenance of stability and prosperity during the transitional period is a prerequisite of the continued success of Hong Kong after 1997.
There is no room for political experimentation or for radical reforms because we cannot afford to make mistakes. We must be realistic and pragmatic in our approach to the development of representative government in Hong Kong. With this understanding, I endorse the cautious, step-by-step approach to political reforms advocated in the White Paper.
I have, however, several comments on the specific proposals in the White Paper. I am not in favour of the concept of functional constituencies. As I had
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCILＺ―9 January 1985 483
already explained my reasons in my speech in the debate on the Green Paper, I shall not repeat them here. However, Government should focus its attention on laying down clear guidelines on the eligibility criteria for candidates and the compilation of electoral rolls and election procedures for functional constituencies to ensure that members returned by the functional constituencies can truly represent their respective functional groups in the legislature.
The grouping of the districts into ten geographical constituencies disregards population differences, district identities and local characteristics. For example, an Unofficial member elected by the South New Territories constituency may have difficulties reconciling the divergent interests of his or hers three districts. I would rather see each of the 19 District Boards returning one or two representatives to the Legislative Council in proportion to its population. In this way, the interests of the districts are better served.
Dual membership in the District Board, the Urban Council, the new Regional Council and the Legislative Council should continue to be allowed. Overlapping membership will foster an effective link between the various levels of public administration and enable members to function more efficiently.
The Oath of Allegiance to the Queen should be replaced by an oath of allegiance to the Government and people of Hong Kong. Furthermore, the existing rule barring members of foreign councils from being members in the District Boards and the Urban Council should not be applied rigidly to members of the Chinese People’s Political Consultative Conference (C.P.P.C.C.) because China should not be treated, strictly speaking, as a foreign state in Hong Kong. In future, members of the C.P.P.C.C. should also be able to become Unofficial members of the Legislative Council. A closer and more cordial relationship between China and Hong Kong will be in the interest of both places.
I am happy to note that the timing of the next review has been advanced to 1987 in the White Paper. There are only 12 years before 1997 and an early review is important. Experience from the District Board elections and indirect elections to the Legislative Council this year and the Urban Council and the new Regional Council’s elections in 1986 will provide the basis for the review. There should also be input from the Legislative Council and members of the public in the 1987 review. In my view, the review should deal with an least three areas of concern.
Firstly, the next review should map out a programme of reforms for the system of government in Hong Kong to the end of this century. The aim is to establish a government of the people, for the people and by the people in Hong Kong before sovereignty reverts to China in 1997. A phased programme with concrete proposals and a flexible timeframe should be drawn up. The reforms should include the functions and composition of the Legislative and Executive Councils and the position and role of the Governor.
484 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL―9 January 1985
Secondly, in the review in 1987, serious consideration should be given to the phasing out of functional constituencies. However, there should be elected members from each of the 19 District Boards to the Legislative Council to ensure a geographical balance of representatives.
Thirdly, the Government should seriously consider the introduction of direct elections based on universal suffrage to the Legislative Council in the review. Direct elections should be brought in gradually. I am of the opinion that the appointment system still has its merits during the transitional period and can exist side by side with direct elections. The appointment system enables the Governor to bring into the Legislative Council members from various sectors of the community to complement elected members. It also provides an element of continuity and stability to our society and economy.
The introduction of direct elections should be accompanied by a conscious, sustained and large-scale programme of civic education directed at both students and members of the public. The Community Building Policy Committee should be responsible for the planning, co ordination and implementation of the campaign.
With these remarks, I support the motion.
MR. ALLEN LEE:―Sir, during the debate on the motion of that draft agreement on 15 October 1984, I have mentioned that the system of government will change in the future and that I wish to address this issue in detail when the White Paper on Representative Government is ready for debate in this Council. I had made one point at that time which is I believe the future government of Hong Kong must have credibility in the eyes of the Hong Kong people and it must be accountable to them. Equally important is the composition of the government which must be acceptable to Beijing. The question is how to achieve this. Certainly it is not an easy task even though the aims of representative government are quite clear.
The White Paper
I would like to comment on two aspects of the White Paper:
(1) The formation of 1985 Legislative Council,
(2) The 1987 Review.
(1) The formation of 1985 Legislative Council
Sir, I have attended quite a number of forums and public gatherings since the publication of the Green Paper on Representative Government. To my recollection, no one has seriously commented on the proposal of the 1985 Legislative Council formation. The discussions were concentrated on 1988 and the future along with comments on suggested review in 1989 and the governmental system. To my surprise, the White Paper has pushed the 1988 proposal to 1985. I have tried to find reasons for the speeding-up on
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCILＺ―9 January 1985 485
representative government. The only logical conclusion I could draw is that this is not due to the public pressure in Hong Kong nor the Chinese demand to speed-up the process. It could be the product of Her Majesty’s Government through the Hong Kong Government to speed up the process of demo-cratisation in Hong Kong. If this is true, may I remind Her Majesty’s Government that pressurising the Hong Kong Government at this stage on Westminster style of democracy could lead to unfavourable results.
(2) The 1987 review
There was strong public support for bringing the review forward to 1987 which coincides with the speeding-up of democratisation in 1985. However, I believe the White Paper is lacking in long term vision and planning even during the transition period of these 12 years. It has relied on the review itself in 1987. It did not say that in the 1987 review, a long term plan of political reform and the governmental system should be clearly stated up to 1997 and continuity beyond 1997. This lack of long term vision and planning bothers me because the people of Hong Kong have a right to know of the formation of a governmental system in the future. Therefore, I strongly urge the Government that during the 1987 review, it should give the public a clear indication as to where Hong Kong is going in its governmental system in the future.
Elected legislature
The Joint Declaration of the Sino-British agreement specifically stated that the legislature of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region shall be constituted by elections. The White Paper before us today is taking a first step towards constitutional reform. We all know that the appointment system which is currently adopted by the Hong Kong Government will be a matter of the past. Elections are inevitable in the future. We must plan carefully concerning the formation of an elected legislature in the future. I have heard many comments about the attitude of the Hong Kong people towards elections. In my mind, this is also a matter of the past. The awareness among all strata of the Hong Kong people concerning elections is growing and will grow further in the future. Since there will be an elected legislature in the years ahead, I believe we must express our opinions now as to how we can achieve this without abrupt changes. It is towards this important subject that I wish to make proposals this afternoon.
I believe the Legislative Council ought to be expanded in the future with a greater number of Unofficial Legislative Councillors from a cross-section of our community. Therefore, I propose that in 1988, the number of Unofficial members should be expanded to 60 with 20 member from the proposed electoral college, 20 members from the proposed functional constituency and 20 members through territory-wide elections. There are people in Hong Kong concerned about direct elections because of so-called ‘Free Lunchers’ getting into the legislature. Sir, I understand this concern but I disagree. The people of
486 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL―9 January 1985
Hong Kong must have a right to choose their representatives directly into the Legislative Council and I am sure many people are willing to make personal sacrifices for the well-being of Hong Kong. These people are not necessarily ‘Free Lunchers’. The allocation of one third of the seating to a single list territory-wide election should boost the confidence of the people in recognition of achieving the self-administration of Hong Kong which was promised by the Chinese leaders. This proposal will also help Hong Kong in establishing an elected legislature and will most probably succeed in the formation of a representative government as stated in the White Paper. I believe it will also provide a continuity running up to and beyond 1997.
Governmental system
Sir, aside from the elected legislature, the governmental system is the most important aspect of the future. Since we are going to have an elected legislature and the Joint Declaration also specifically stated that the executive authorities should abide by the law and be accountable to the legislature, Miss DUNN has proposed in the past that a ministerial system should be introduced in Hong Kong and I would like to put it on record that I support this idea and I believe that the authority to control and supervise the policies and operations of the Government will be most effective through a form of a ministerial system in the future. It is a system that should be acceptable to the people of Hong Kong. Even though I agree with the White Paper that the whole subject will be addressed further at a later stage, I would like to suggest to the Government to plan well in advance.
In conclusion, I believe we must put our proposals forward to the Chinese Government with an aim of establishing a credible government in the mutual interest of China and Hong Kong. I am certain that the authorities in China are as concerned with the formation of government as we are. A smooth transition is required as we have an established track-record in the international arena under the British rule. I am certain that we should continue to establish ourselves as an international entity under the Chinese rule. We, the people of Hong Kong, must continue to make our contributions towards our future development. It is my belief that what I proposed this afternoon is in line with the spirit of the Joint Declaration and the White Paper. It will most probably succeed with the continued contributions from our people. As for the formation of the legislature, even though it is unique and untried, it should meet the means and ends of a Hong Kong government under Chinese sovereignty beyond 1997.
Sir, I have expressed my reservations of the 1985 formation of the Legislative Council and I have spoken on my proposals for the future. The public at large seems to accept the formation of the 1985 Legislative Council even though it is lacking in long term vision and planning. I am willing to support the White Paper and the motion before us today provided that in the 1987 review, the people of Hong Kong will be given the future proposals running up to 1997.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCILＺ―9 January 1985 487
MR. SO delivered his speech in Cantonese:―
督憲閣㆘：國家也好，特別行政區也好，殖民㆞也好，它的政治制度，必要以能 替㆟民帶來繁榮和安定為宗旨。
香港在十㆓年半後便成為㆗國轄㆘的特別行政區，立法機關將由選舉產生， 並享有高度自治權。發展㆒個具代表性的政治制度，將目前殖民㆞政府的權力循 序漸進㆞移交香港的民選代表是我們最重要的使命和工作。這項工作好比㆒場重 要 的 體 育 運 動 ―― ㆒項㆒百㆒十公尺高欄運動。香港是運動員，教練是英國㆟， 他是出名的鐵㆟，除了卓爾不凡外，要求也極高，要把香港這個運動員訓練成跨 欄高手，並能以十㆓秒六的世界紀錄完成賽程。隨 ㆟類社會的進步和科學技術 的不斷發展，體育運動訓練已精益求精，有科學的分析認識，並已能歸納﹑掌握 和形成㆒套獨特和完整的基礎理論和作程。要以十㆓秒六的時間跑畢㆒百㆒十公 尺高欄的賽程，亦未嘗不可。不過，香港這個運動員所擅長的是跑馬﹑跳舞和游 水運動，對田徑項目雖然有潛力，但因久疏練習，若要達到教練的要求，則必要 加倍努力﹑練習和參賽。
要想取得體育運動良好的訓練效果，不單只要選擇有效的訓練手段，合理的 訓練量，而且訓練課程之間必須有適合的節奏，亦應有合理的間隔休息。
白 皮 書 是 訓 練 的 方 案，手 段 和 課 程，它 的 組 合 方 式 和 節 奏 將 決 定 訓 練 的 成 敗 。 同時也是專為香港這個運動員特別設計的「起跑器」。
選擇最佳訓練方案和手段時，必要根據經驗，並借鑒於其他成功的實例，而 且要小心分析運動員所需的質素，例如速度﹑速度耐力﹑彈跳力﹑爆發力﹑靈活 性﹑柔韌性等。因為不同的運動項目，要求不同的質素。任何㆒個訓練方案及手 段，都是發展與該方案和手段相應的運動質素。例如，快速的短距離跑，主要發 展速度，跳遠主要發展彈跳力，長跑則主要發展耐力。它還要配合運動員的個體 特點﹑年齡﹑性別﹑訓練水平﹑機能狀態。亦不能忽略運動員的膳食﹑營養﹑工 作﹑作息制度，並要顧察運動員的氣質和心理情緒，輔以適當的按摩﹑電療﹑藥 物等手段，方可事半功倍。戰略亦重要。去年的奧林匹克運動會有很多勢均力敵 的㆗長跑比賽，從螢光幕㆖我們看到㆒些有經驗的運動員經常故意變化跑的速 度，輕鬆㆞加速跑在對手的前面，施加心理壓力給對手，使對手喪失追趕和取勝 的信心，從而取得比賽優勢。但亦看到很多不成熟的年輕運動員，開始時跑得很 快，或是㆗途盲目加速，後來卻越跑越慢，越來越狼狽不堪，最後便落得「食塵」 的後果。總之，運動訓練必要循序漸進由淺入深，亦要因材施教。㆒百㆒十公尺 高欄這項運動，基本㆖是㆒項短跑，訓練的時候要 重速度和彈跳力，並要考慮 ㆟體從靜止狀態到發揮最大速度所需的時間。㆒般來說，跑得越快的㆟，起跑成 績也越好。開跑時的㆒剎那是最具關鍵性的時刻。起跑前，運動員蹲踞在起跑器 前，希望獲得較大的前衝力。各就各位後，司令員說㆒聲「預備」，運動員便要 平穩和從容的抬起臀部，同時吸㆒口氣，眼睛看 前面的高欄，心裏想 終點， 集㆗注意力聽司令員發出的起跑槍聲。槍聲㆒響，運動員兩手便推離㆞面，用力 擺臂，同時兩腿要用力蹬起跑器，把身體向前衝去。跨欄時，撞跌了欄，不要緊，
最重要的是不要摔倒跌傷，要勞動聖約翰救傷隊員抬他出場，而且不犯規，努力 跨欄和衝過終點線。
督 憲 閣 ㆘，本 ㆟ 認 為 白 皮 書 所 載 的 方 案，手 段 和 節 奏 很 適 合 香 港 這 個 運 動 員 ， 並希望教練悉心輔導這位選手，不要為他注射犯規的興奮劑。本㆟深信，我們這 位有潛質的選手必能「㆒蹬驚㆟」，就算不能創造十㆓秒六的世界紀錄，亦必能 以美妙的姿勢跨欄和以驕㆟的成績到達終點！
(The following is the interpretation of what Mr. So said.)
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Sir, the primary object of a political system, be it of a nation, a Special Administrative Region, or a colony, is to bring prosperity and stability to its people.
Hong Kong will, after twelve and a half years, become a Special Administrative trative Region of China. The legislature will be constituted by elections and Hong Kong will enjoy a high degree of autonomy. Our foremost priority and role is to develop a representative political system under which the power of the present Colonial Government will progressively be handed over to elected representatives chosen by the Hong Kong people. Our role can well be compared to an important athletic event―a 110-metre high hurdle race. In this race, Hong Kong is the athlete whilst the trainer is the British. The latter is well known to be an ‘Iron Man’ who is renown for his distinguished techniques in training and his demand is extremely high. He wishes to train up this athlete, Hong Kong, to become a top runner in the hurdle race and aims at his finishing the race in a ‘World record of 12.6 seconds’. With human progress and unceasing scientific and technology advance, measures applied in athletic training are constantly improving. Also with discoveries resulting from scientific analysis, people can now induce, master, and formulate a set of unique and comprehensive basic theories and programmes for that purpose. It is therefore not at all impossible to finish a 110- metre high hurdle race in 12.6 seconds. However, this athlete Hong Kong is good at other sports such as horse racing, dancing and swimming. He might have potentials in the track and-field events, yet he has to double his efforts in training and participation in the events before he can meet the demands of the trainer.
In order to get good results out of athletic training, it is necessary to adopt effective training methods and to have reasonable amount of training. Furthermore, the training course must be suitably paced and properly scheduled with reasonable breaks and rest.
The White Paper presents the programme, methods and course for training. The composition and pace of the programme will determine the outcome of the whole training project. It is also a ‘starting block’ specially designed for this particular athlete, Hong Kong.
In choosing the best training programme and methods, it is necessary to draw on past experience and study former successful cases for reference. It is also necessary to find out the qualities required of the athlete, such as speed in sprint, speeding stamina, bouncing strength, charging force, degree of agility and pliability. All factors are to be taken into account because different athletic events call for different qualities. Any training programme or training method should be designed to cultivate the athletic qualities related to that particular programme or method. For example, the target in short sprint training is mainly to develop speed, broad jump training is to develop bounce and training in the long distance run is to build up stamina. Furthermore the programme and method must also suit the athlete’s individual disposition, for instance his age,
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sex, training standard, physical form and fitness. It must also take into account his diet, nutrition, work and rest schedules, his temperament and emotional state. To achieve maximum results, the athlete must be given additional support in the form of suitable massage, physiotherapeutic and medicinal care. Strategy is also essential for winning. At last year’s Olympic Games, there were quite a number of runners in the medium and long distance events who were quite evenly matched. One could see on television the experienced athletes deliberately changing their speeds from time to time. They would sometimes gather speed with seeming ease and overtake their opponents in a bid to exert psychological pressure and make their opponents lose heart, thus winning the races for themselves. In the same events, there were also other inexperienced young athletes who ran too fast at the start or accelerated blindly half-way down the course only to find themselves gradually slowing down and exhausted, and eventually dropping behind others (laughter). All in all, athletic training should be carried out in stages, from the basics to the most sophisticated form of training, and it should be geared to individual trainees’ potentials and capabilities. The 110-metre high hurdle race is basically a sprint event which puts emphasis on the training of speed and bouncing strength. It has to consider also the time required for a human being to develop full darting speed from a completely static position. Generally speaking, the faster a man can run, the faster can he make it in the start. The start in a race is the most critical moment. Before starting, the athletes crouch in front of their starting blocks in order to ensure maximum forward dash. When all the athletes are in position and the starter shouts out ‘get set’, the athletes then raise their buttocks steadily and slowly. At the same time they would take a deep breath. With their eyes fixing on the high hurdles in front and their minds thinking of the finishing line, they concentrate to wait for the starter’s pistol signal which starts off the race.
On hearing the pistol signal, the athlete gives the ground a push with both hands and swing his arms with strength. Simultaneously he has to dart off from the starting block by exerting force in his legs to push his body forward. It does not matter even if the hurdles are knocked down in the race. What is most important is that he does not hurt himself by falling down and have to be carried off the field by the St. John’s Ambulance Brigade, and that he does not breach the rules and tries his best to jump over the hurdles and dashes for the finishing line.
Sir, I think that the programme, the methods of implementation and the pace of development suggested in the White Paper are suitable for the athlete, Hong Kong. It is hoped that the trainer will devote himself to counselling the athlete, instead of giving him stimulants which will make him breach the rules. I strongly believe that this athlete with potentials will make dazzling achieve- ments in jumping over the hurdles gracefully and reach the finishing line with flying colours even though the world record of 12.6 seconds may not be clocked.
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MR. F. K. HU:―Sir, the further development of representative government in Hong Kong is a commitment of the U.K. Government to be accomplished in the next twelve and a half years, within the principle and guideline laid down in the Sino-British agreement, and with specific emphasis on the maintenance of the prosperity and stability of Hong Kong. We have to develop steadily, progressively and without undue haste a system from our own society with due consideration to our special and unique circumstances. The progress of development can be varied at different stages of review when the achievement and performance during the previous period is scrutinised critically. If the result of review is favourable and positive, the speed of development can be hastened. On the other hand, if the result of the review indicates uncertainty and disruption, development can be slowed down and the remedial action introduced to improve the situation aiming at the final goal of truly representative government in Hong Kong to be established two to three years before 1997.
I envisage that in the final stage, the Administration shall abide by the law and will be accountable to the Executive Council which in turn will be accountable to the Legislative Council. By that time, I hope that the Legislative Council, besides the power it already possessed, will also be deciding policies and the Administration will implement the policies accordingly. Such a possibility should be seriously considered when the Basic Law is being drafted.
It is obvious that the role to be played by UMELCO in the next twelve and a half years will be extremely important. It will continue to play an important role as top adviser to the Hong Kong Government on policy issues and as scrutineer of public expenditure. UMELCO will also continue to provide channels of communication between the general public and the Government. It will maintain good connections with various organisations in the U.K. in keeping them informed of the development in Hong Kong. Above all, it will have to take on a new challenging role in establishing and maintaining mutual trust, effective communication and cordial relations with the Chinese Government.
UMELCO has an important responsibility in keeping the Chinese Government advised of the feeling of the general public of Hong Kong concerning Chinese policies toward Hong Kong in order to avoid any unnecessary misunderstanding on both sides. Furthermore, UMELCO must be fully aware of Chinese policies, whether domestic or international, as far as they affect Hong Kong so that it may advise Hong Kong Government and, if necessary, make suitable adjustment in policy accordingly so that Hong Kong can continue to play an important part in assisting China in her modernisation plan and any related policies. Although the Chinese Government has declared that they would not interfere with the administration of Hong Kong before 1997, a good understanding through UMELCO and the Joint Liaison Group to be established can ensure development of the representative government along a workable and acceptable path which will lead to a smooth transition to the
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Special Administrative Region Government without sudden and dramatic changes which might have a disturbing effect, as the Prime Minister pointed out in her speech at the joint session of the Executive Council and Legislative Council on 20 December 1984.
The future of Hong Kong lies in our own hand. The general public has been rather ignorant in civic and political matters, and I fully endorse the view expressed in the White Paper on educating the general public at all levels in this field so that they will be able to understand better all the implications and complexities of the proposals for the development of the system of government in Hong Kong. They would then be able to express their views more openly about the development of representative government and the system which they prefer. They will also be placed in a better position to vote for candidates whom in their view understand the overall complex social problems, without over emphasis on benefit for any particular sectors, in order to reach a balanced policy fair to all parties concerned within the reach of limited resources at the disposal of the Hong Kong Government.
It is not possible for us to decide the right mix in the Legislative Council at this stage. We must try and test various methods before we can arrive at a proper composition of a fully elected Legislative Council two to three years before 1997. Besides indirect election through the electoral college and functional constituencies, there should be direct election introduced at a later stage and the appointment system which, although proven to be effective in the past, will have to be phased out and may be replaced by more open consultative procedures in future if the latter should prove to be effective and conducive to the maintenance of the prosperity and stability of Hong Kong.
Once the number of seats to be created by any method is agreed upon, it would be extremely difficult to reduce the number in some categories and thus make future adjustment more difficult, unless the total number in the Legislative Council is increased drastically. Therefore, I have always been in favour of a cautious approach and fully supported six members each from the electoral college and functional constituencies proposed in the Green Paper. There was no strong evidence of public opinion in Hong Kong to increase the number from six to 12 each to be returned by the electoral college and functional constituencies in 1985, yet the White Paper allows the numbers to double, which in my view is not a cautious approach. I can appreciate the difficulties faced by the Administration in deciding an equitable way in allocating six seats in both categories. However, the decision to increase the seats from both the electoral college and functional constituencies would make the review in 1987 more difficult as the Government will have less room to manoeuvre.
I support the idea of a reasonably balanced geographical distribution of elected members. Although this is the arrangement for indirect election by the electoral college in 1985, the same principle should apply for direct election in
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future. The ratio of members elected through indirect election and direct election on the basis of geographical constituencies should be decided in the future review.
There are bound to be numerous professions and trades which consider themselves to be qualified to be one of the functional constituencies and it is impossible to satisfy every group. Furthermore, there is no reason that there must be parity between geographically based constituencies and functional constituencies.
I appreciate that the procedures for indirect election must be standardised through legislation. I would suggest that it will be necessary to give the broadest possible base of voters for all functional constituencies in order to give the elected members sufficient backing in their representation. Therefore, all those related to any particular functional constituencies and meeting the basic requirement as registered voters must be on the electoral rolls for these constituencies. Corporate members should have no right to vote in such arrangements. However, the nominees should be limited to voters with acceptable experience and qualification of any particular constituency. If there are too many nominees in any constituency, more than one election, if necessary, should be conducted in order to eliminate the number of nominees in each subsequent election until one nominee can succeed to obtain over 50 per cent of the votes cast.
In case of election by the electoral college and functional constituencies, we must ensure that there is no duplication of voters and nominees. One can only vote once or stand as nominee once in either constituency.
It is logical to review the development in 1987, one year before the 1988 election, so that a decision can be made in 1987 on direct election, the number of members to be returned from various categories, and any necessary adjustment on the composition of the Legislative Council in 1988 after an assessment of the result and performance from 1985 to 1987. For the same reason, the system should also be reviewed in 1990 and 1993 before the 1991 and 1994 elections with a view to achieving a fully representative government in 1994.
Sir, with these remarks, I support the motion.
MR. WONG PO-YAN delivered his speech in Cantonese:―
督憲閣㆘：代議政制綠皮書發表之後，本港市民積極反應，政府及兩局辦事處均 收到不少各團體及個別市民的意見，這對本港政制將來的發展，是十分重要的， 最近發表的白皮書其內容與綠皮書有頗為值得注意的分別，這亦表現政府對市民 大眾的意見確有重視及採納，因而作出頗為重要的修正，這是本㆟認為值得欣慰 的 。
我們可以說代議政制的積極發展是由本港政治㆞位即將變化這因素來推動 的，而並不是因為本港的各方面發展受到嚴重的阻滯，因而想用代議政制的改革 來解決問題。過去十多年來，本港在經濟及文化生活方面的進展速度比世界㆖大 部分國家或㆞區都比較快，這點我認為我們在擬定代議政制發展的步驟時要認真 注意的，因為我們要處理的是㆒個在良好
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發展㆗的社會，我們在改變這社會的政制時，㆒定要顧及我們處理的後果是會令 這 個 社會得益，讓它進步得更快更好呢，還是我們要冒 ㆒個危險，就是在我們 改變的過程㆗，這個社會的進步速率要減緩或者是出現預料不到的退步。我認為 這是本港市民心目㆗最關心的問題。如果現在的香港是㆒個千瘡百孔的社會，要 改革政制大可放手去做，因為在那種情況㆘，要得到㆒些進步是不難的，但是我 們面對的是㆒個-
滿生氣的社會，各方面都有令全世界矚目的進展，世界各㆞來 的客㆟對他們眼㆗的香港的評語較多是佩服與讚賞而不是憐憫的嘆息，在這種情 況之㆘，我們應當更加慎重考慮我們的政制改革。
在改革的過程㆗，到最後階段，我們政制的最大的改變是議員們的產生的方 式將會由委任逐步改為選任。因此，將來選任議員們要完成他們任務的目標與方 法是我們社會的關鍵問題。選任議員們有他們的選民，他們的入選與否決定於選 民支持他與否，而選民的支持則要看他的施政理想與實踐是否可以令他們滿意。
因此，大多數的議員會分別代表不同社會階層，不同行業，不同㆞區的利益，並 且在選民的嚴格的監督與審核之㆘，在相當程度㆖他們必定要為他們所代表的部 分爭取最大的利益，這是㆒個必然出現的情況。
我們的社會是㆒個複雜的有機體，隨 我們的進步，社會結構會越趨繁複， 在我們的日常工作㆗，社會的各階層的活動，互相牽制互相推動，因此整個社會 的運作是否成功依賴所有構成部分互相配合的圓滑運行，任何㆒部分堅持自己的 利益而不惜影響整體都會或大或小㆞對整個社會起不好的影響。因此，不同部分 的參政者能否適當㆞顧及整體社會的利益而在必需的情況㆘約制自己所代表的 那㆒部分的利益，與及在適當的情況㆘把自己部分的長遠利益放在㆒時的利益之 ㆖，是我們社會能否成功的關鍵所在。因此，我們對㆒切改變㆒定要謹慎從事， 穩步前進，進行㆒個步驟之後檢討效果，再進行㆘㆒步改革，才可以保證不會有 我們不願見的後果。香港的生存與發展依賴社會的安定與經濟繁榮，我們絕對不 能出錯。在目前的環境㆘，我們應該用「如臨深淵，如履薄冰」的態度來進行政 制的發展。在詳細考慮之後，我以為白皮書各方面建議的內容是符合這種精神 的 。
督憲閣㆘，雖然我們計劃㆗的政制發展是香港㆟尚未經驗過的，但是我相信 香港㆟在戰後幾十年來與世界各國來往密切，深切明瞭世界各㆞各項不同政制的 優點缺點，雖未親身經歷但已有相當認識。基於此點，我對政制的發展前途，有 極大的信心，我希望我們年青的㆒代，不論是在本㆞成長受教育的，或是由海外 學成歸來的，都會積極投入公共事務，貢獻他們在本港或在外㆞吸收到的經驗。
另㆒方面，我期望所有的市民，不論是選民，或是候選㆟，都會了解到除了個㆟ 或個別群體的利益之外，仍有全港的長遠利益，在公共事務㆖，都會作大公無私 明智的抉擇，要達到這個目的，公民教育是唯㆒的途徑，本㆟對政府在白皮書第 五章第㆔十八至㆕十條關於公民教育方面準備做的工作深表贊同，並希望能積極 推動使在極短時間內有顯著的效果。
督憲閣㆘，本㆟謹此陳辭，支持此項動議。
(The following is the interpretation of what Mr. WONG Po-yan said.)
Sir, the publication of the Green Paper on Representative Government has prompted active response from the public. Many representations from organisations as well as individuals were received by the Government and the UMELCO Office. This is of vital importance to the future development of Hong Kong’s political system. There are note-worthy differences between the contents of the recently published White Paper and the Green Paper. This shows that the Government has taken into account the views of the public and accepted them, and I am delighted to note that major amendments were made as a result.
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We can rightly say that the driving force for the rapid development of representative government in Hong Kong is the impending change in Hong Kong’s political status, and not the need for a solution to problems caused by serious impediments to developments in various aspects. In the past ten years or so, Hong Kong has progressed more rapidly in its economy and cultural activities than most countries or regions in the world. I think we have to pay special attention to this point in laying down the stages of development for our representative government. We are dealing with a healthily developing society. In changing its political system, we have to ensure that the community would be benefitted, resulting in better and faster progress. But we have to take the risk that in the process of changing, our progress may be slowed down, or we may even experience unexpected regression. I think this is the major concern of the people of Hong Kong. If, at present, Hong Kong is a society with a thousand defects, we can well go out to reform our Government since it is not difficult to make some improvements under that kind of circumstances. But we are faced with a thriving community where there is world-renowned progress in many aspects. After visiting Hong Kong, people from all over the world are usually full of admiration and praise rather than pity. Under the circumstances, we should be extra careful in considering our political reforms.
During the final stage of the reform process, the greatest change in our government is that appointed members of the Legislative Council will be gradually replaced by elected ones. Therefore the aims and methods of the future elected members in fulfilling their duties is crucial to our society. Elected members have their own constituencies. Whether a candidate is elected or not depends on the support of his voters. This support in turn depends on whether the voters are satisfied with his political ideals and their implementation. Hence, most of the elected members will represent the interests of different social strata, professions and districts. Under the close scrutiny and supervision of their voters, it is inevitable that the members will have to fight to a considerable extent for the greatest benefit of the constituencies which they represent.
Our society is a complex organism. As a result of progress, our social structure will become more complicated. Through our daily functions, the activities of various strata of our society are interlinked and at the same time pushing one another forward. Consequently, the success of the entire community depends on the smooth operation and coordination of all sectors by which it is made up of. If any sector insists on protecting its own interests at the expense of the whole community, all of us will, to a greater or lesser extent, be adversely affected. Hence, the key to success of our society depends on whether elected members who come from different social strata will properly look after the interests of the community as a whole, restrain the interests of the sectors which they represent if conditions so require and put the long-term interests of their sectors above immediate benefits. Therefore, in the face of all kinds of changes, we must act cautiously, advance steadily, review the effects after taking each step of reform and then proceed with the next step in order to ensure that
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there will not be any undesirable consequence. The existence and development of Hong Kong rely on social stability and economic prosperity. We certainly cannot afford to make any mistake. Under the present circumstances, we should take an extremely cautious attitude in implementing and developing our political system. After careful considerations, I am of the opinion that the contents of the White Paper in various aspects are in line with this spirit.
Sir, although developments in our proposed political system are not based on our own past experience, yet I believe that through close contacts with countries all over the world during the post-war decades, Hong Kong people have gained considerable knowledge and a clear understanding of the merits and demerits of different political systems. Based on this, I have full confidence in the future development of our political system. I hope our younger generation, whether they were brought up locally or have returned after receiving and education overseas, will actively participate in public affairs and contribute the experience which they have obtained locally or overseas. On the other hand, I hope all Hong Kong citizens, be they voters or candidates standing for election, will realise that apart from their individual or group interests, there is the long-term interest of the entire community to look after. Where public affairs are concerned, they should make selfless and wise decisions. To this end, civic education is the only solution. I fully agree with paragraphs 38 to 40 of Chapter V of the White Paper which outline what the Government is prepared to do on civic education. I hope that by positive promotion of civic education, a significant result will be achieved within a very short time.
Sir, with these remarks, I support the motion.
MR. BROWN:―Sir, when we consider the very many major tasks for us to achieve in the second half of the 1980s the further development of representative government clearly stands out as being one of the most, if not the most important. Why? Because it really is the only way we can lay the foundations of the post-1997 era, and then build on those foundations to ensure the hand over of administration in that year leaves a united community capable of following its destiny into the longer term future.
The further development of representative government involves fundamental changes not only to the manner we conduct our affairs, but also to our mental attitude towards the present system of government as we practised under the Royal Instructions. I suspect that not all Members here would necessarily agree with all that Mr. Edward HEATH might say about the nominated members of this Council, but we would do ourselves a disservice if we did not study his comments on the White Paper forming the subject of our debate this afternoon. In a speech to the House of Commons on 5 December last year―which many Members here this afternoon were present to hear in person―he said, when discussing the implementation of the proposed changes:
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‘With only 12 years to develop representative government, the question of rushing or not rushing does not arise. What I believe will do more harm than anything is the suggestion as the tone of the White Paper implies, that we are doing this rather grudgingly. Post-colonial history shows that we have always suffered when we have seemed to be dragging our feet.’
Mr. HEATH went on to express the view that any impression of changing to a new system grudgingly would be very damaging to Hong Kong. He felt that the young Chinese people in Hong Kong were anxious to assume more responsibility , but believed that Members of this Council would caution against haste in order to keep their appointed positions. If this were true it would be a damning indictment; is it true?
Sir, I can only speak for myself but surely the actions of this Council can speak for the majority if not all Members. Much hard work has been done and considerable success has been achieved over the past few years in developing the political awareness of this community, and then translating it into active participation in our affairs. The creation of the District Boards and their continuing evolution is only one concrete example of how a Hong Kong situation has been tackled in Hong Kong in a Hong Kong way. And Hong Kong’s track record of getting things right in most of its fields of endeavour is not only good, but is indeed not infrequently the cause of envy by those who live in other countries whose own problems seem so incapable of solution by those same people who levy criticism in our direction.
Notwithstanding what I have just said, however, Mr. HEATH’S point does have some validity, and whilst developing our system in accordance with the gradual and progressive manner which seems generally to have found favour with the public, we must ensure that we stay tuned in to the voice of the people through the process described earlier this afternoon by my Unofficial colleague, Mr. S. L. CHEN. In the longer term we must also avoid any over concentration of power in the hands of central government, which by definition encourages the man in the street to believe there is little merit in thinking things out for himself as others will in any case decide. The future elected members of this Council― whether indirect or direct―will carry a heavy responsibility to see that the hopes and the aspirations of this community are properly reflected in the policies adopted by this Council. Those who assume this responsibility will also need in due course to share authority, and have greater powers of decision if they are to succeed.
This Council has already entered the era of transition towards more representative government, and during this period of change it is important that we do not give the impression either by word or deed that the colonial argument―as referred to by Mr. HEATH in the speech I mentioned earlier―the colonial argument that, ’it would be so much better if these people let us go on ruling them because we do it so much better than they ever could’, has any validity to our situation here today. I do not think that we do give that
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impression, but in any case the argument is simply not true. I do not think anyone here disagrees with the view that the people of Hong Kong are quite capable of managing their own affairs. The White Paper is designed precisely to take an important and significant step in that direction; a step moreover that wisely recognises the need to work within the longer term objective of achieving a more representative government compatible with the terms of the Sino-British agreement and the transfer of administration in 1997.
Whoever holds the reigns of power in Hong Kong, their prime responsibility will be to ensure stability and economic prosperity. This is a formidable challenge in any circumstances; in circumstances of change it is doubly difficult. When weighing the requirement for rapid progress with the cautionary ‘more haste less speed’ message in the White Paper, I have no doubts in my own mind that the balance as reflected in the White Paper is right in the circumstances of today. Those circumstances may well change, and probably will change, by the date of the 1987 review, when we can reassess the position. But for today the balance is appropriate, and I therefore support the motion.
MR. CHAN KAM-CHUEN:―Sir, the year 1985 will go down in the history of Hong Kong as the year of significant changes in local politics. I watch with glee on the development in the local political arena and the Chinese saying which could appropriately describe the scenario is
‘有㆟辭官歸故里，有㆟漏夜趕科場 ’’ i.e. ‘some retired and returned to their native village whilst others travel around the clock and hasten to the official examination hall’. However, this is a happy tiding for an apolitical Hong Kong and may be likened to a paralysed person recovering full use of the functions of his whole body (the economic half was very active but the political half was hindered for various reasons). Like a child learning to walk, this democratisation process may need guidance and something to hold on to in the beginning, it may stumble but it would eventually walk and even run.
The appointed and the elected
With the arrival of new Legislative Councillors through indirect election into this Council, it would turn a new chapter for the appointed Unofficial members who would gladly unload their heavy responsibilities to the newcomers and gradually let this long tradition of our appointment system for over a century fade away. What have these appointed Legislative Councillors, past, present and future, done? As a sales manager told his salesman ’we want results not excuses’. The advices of these councillors as a whole to the Government are reflected in the results of the health and state of Hong Kong which had gone through thick and thin.
Securing the services of the elite group to assist government has a long history in China. The sponsorship system could be traced back at least to the Han Dynasty some 2 000 years ago long before the introduction of the examination system. The Hong Kong appointment system is based on the selection of
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successful persons from a cross section of the community. Many of them have done years of work in their hundreds of advisory boards and councils before their appointment into this Council. Whilst the Members of Parliament in the United Kingdom are paid a remuneration and have no access to government confidential document, the appointed Unofficials in Hong Kong are not paid any remuneration and have to be tight-lipped on confidential issues. This voluntary service demands many working hours to digest and analyse the daily piles of government papers before attending the various meetings. This means a sacrifice in their business and family life but this is often purposely ignored by people who wish to undermine community leaders in their power struggle. It is therefore wise to retain some of these appointed Unofficials so that they may gradually pass their knowledge and experience to their new colleagues before completely bowing out. Of course, there are those who still do not agree and believe these Unofficials have not done one bit of good and should be got rid of like weeds immediately. Then, I would like to quote from Shakespeare’s Julius Caesar: ‘the evil that men do lives after them, the good is oft interred with their bones’, so let it be with appointed Unofficial Legislative Councillors.
Grassroots and future leaders
There is a lot of misunderstanding about the term grassroots（草根）which is not a Chinese term as one cannot find the equivalent in the comprehensive Chinese dictionaries. It is a straight translation of the English version which, according to the Concise Oxford Dictionary, means in politics ‘the voters themselves’. Some people have the wrong concept that the poorer the person the more ‘grassroot’ he is. If this is true, then beggars and the like should be elected into this Council. What voters should elect are people with strong leadership, foresight; they should be knowledgeable of their problems and be able to provide sensible solutions and to withstand political pressures in the years to come. However, the appointed system and functional constituencies would safeguard that we have a good spread of expertise. General principles may be good for political speeches but expertise is essential for administration work.
Civic education
I believe that civic education alone is not enough to safeguard our freedom. Legislation should be made for compulsory registration and voting by everyone eligible as full participation is the beginning of civic education.
Periodic review
In any national five year plans, the coming year is usually the clearest but the last year is generally hazy. Periodic reviews to adjust the course or accelerate or decelerate of the programme is a prudent move.
Executive Council and ministerial system
The ‘no change’ in the Executive Council may be viewed by some as a move in the Chinese chess game of‘棄車保帥’i.e. to sacrifice the chariot (Legislative
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCILＺ―9 January 1985 499
Council) and to preserve the Field Marshal (Executive Council). If a ministerial system is adopted, the ministers should only be from the elected members, as they are accountable to the people, and not from the appointed Unofficials as they are advisers to the Governor and should not seek power or authority. They should remain so.
Rules of the power game
All that I have said is on an optimistic note but are they points of concern? Yes, they are. For example, even if we proceed cautiously the Asian democratic scene is not that encouraging if one counts up the number of surrounding countries, whether socialist or baptised by British democracy, how many governments are run on a family business basis i.e. top posts are handed over from father to son or their sons groomed up, through control of party or army, for the top post. Could Hong Kong be the exception? It took centuries to develop Western democracy, and Asian democracy would require many years to mature. The second point of concern is that some candidates have publicly expressed their wish to change the rules of the Legislative Council such as the Oath of Allegiance to the Crown as a pre-condition of joining it.
Would this undermine British sovereignty over Hong Kong from now to 1997 and blur the clear-cut responsibility which is so vital to the stability and prosperity of Hong Kong during this 12 years?
With these remarks, Sir, I support the motion.
MR. SWAINE:―Sir, paragraph 6 of Chapter I the White Paper records the Government’s recognition of the need to keep in mind the provisions of the draft agreement on the future of Hong Kong, and states that the plans have been prepared accordingly.
In my speech before this Council on 15 October 1984 when the draft agreement was debated, I said that we must ensure that when the time comes, the high degree of autonomy promised is not an empty phrase. Hong Kong must prepare itself in the years ahead to build its own strong representative institutions so that the ideal of Hong Kong people administering Hong Kong becomes a reality.
I subscribe therefore to the aim of measured progress implicit in the White Paper and to the express aim that the system should be firmly rooted in Hong Kong and should preserve the best features of existing institutions.
In the present climate of change, we must not be quick to jettison old values. We must be jealous and protective of the rights and liberties we enjoy under the present system, and not yield to pressure or be seduced by hope of gain. As I said in my earlier speech, the suppression of dissent by pressure or fear are among our greatest dangers.
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We must have legislators who are devoted, I would say passionately devoted, to the interests of Hong Kong, and who are prepared and able to carry out their duties without fear or favour, whatever may be the ultimate form of the legislative oath. This is all the more important in view of the provision in clause 1, Annex I of the Joint Declaration that the executive authorities shall be accountable to the legislature. The mode of such accountability has yet to be devised but I note that the Chief Secretary has said this afternoon that the 1987 review will consider the possibility of some form of ministerial system. Whatever the ultimate form of accountability, this necessary check-on and balance-off the power of the executive will only be effected with a strong legislature.
Sir, I support the White Paper, and hence the motion, for its aspirations and its programme of measured progress.
Motion made. That the debate on this motion be adjourned―THE CHIEF SECRETARY. Question put and agreed to.
Second reading of bills
ARBITRATION (AMENDMENT)(NO.2) BILL 1984
Resumption of debate on second reading (19 December 1984)
Question proposed.
Question put and agreed to.
Bill read the second time.
Bill committed to a committee of the whole Council pursuant to Standing Order 43(1). PROVISIONAL REGIONAL COUNCIL BILL 1984
Resumption of debate on second reading (19 December 1984)
Question proposed.
MR. PETER C. WONG:―Sir, I welcome the introduction of the Provisional Regional Council Bill 1984.
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In examining its provisions, I noticed certain inconsistency as between paragraph (b) and paragraph of clause 5(3). These provisions relate to the disqualifications of certain persons from being members of the Provisional Council.
The Administration after some persuasion has agreed to an amendment which will remove any question of inconsistency. This will be done by inserting in paragraph (g) the words ‘without prejudice to paragraph (b)’.
Sir, subject to the agreed amendment, I support the motion.
MR. CHEUNG YAN-LUNG:―Sir, today, I do not intend to repeat here what I had said on the Regional Council during the Budget debate last March, except to reiterate my support for establishing a Regional Council comprising repre-sentatives from the New Territories to supervise the provision of municipal services in the N.T. districts and having regard to the special needs and traditions of the N.T. people. I shall, instead, confine my remarks this afternoon on the Provisional Regional Council Bill 1984.
I recall that the Chief Secretary had mentioned, amongst other things, when he addressed this Council in May last year on the further development of local administration, that if the proposals commanded support, it was intended that the changes in the composition of the District Boards should be introduced in time for the election in 1985 and that elections for the Regional Council should take place in 1986, with a provisional, wholly appointed Council taking office in 1985. This point was repeated by the Secretary for Home Affairs on 16 May last year. When the Secretary for District Administration introduced this Bill on 19 December 1984, he mentioned that the Provisional Council would last for one year. Sir, I am glad to note that clause 7 of the Bill is less definitive; it confers you with a discretion to specify the period for the chairman, the vice-chairman and the memers of the Provisional Council to hold their respective offices. I, for one, have doubts as to the adequacy of such a short period of one year allowed, for the gaining of sufficient working experience for the full council to come. It should be borne in mind that the assignments for the Provisional Regional Council include, not just learning how to do the job, but also to discharge the all important functions as prescribed in clause 4 of the Bill. This clause stipulates that the Provisional Regional Council will not only be entrusted to advise on matters relating to environment, public health, sanitation, hygiene, recreation and culture, and facilities and services for such matters for some 92 per cent of the Territory with its millions of inhabitants, but also to advise Your Excellency on the planning, inaugural and operational matters relating to the establishment of the permanent Regional Council.
Sir, I have no doubt that with the advice of our dedicated and efficient civil service, Your Excellency would be able to pick 12 worthy and competent men and women to fill the 12 vacancies of appointed membership on the Provisional Council. I believe that these 12 appointed members will team up
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very well with the nine elected members from the District Board members and the three ex officio members from the Heung Yee Kuk. Notwithstanding this, I am of the opinion that some guidance and support would be needed to ensure that the Provisional Council could discharge its duties well during its short life span. There is no detailed provision in the Provisional Council Bill about the executive support to be provided for the Provisional Council. I therefore would like to ask the Government to give this point due consideration. I am aware that there has been a recent reorganisation exercise in the Government Secretariat which resulted in the creation of the new post of Secretary for Municipal Services and that the present Urban Services Department and the New Territories Services Department would be re-organised to tie in with this exercise. I hope that the new Regional Services Department would render full executive support to the Provisional Council, and that arrangements could be made for the chief executive of the Regional Services Department and his staff to attend the meetings of the Provisional Council and its committees and subcommittees and to give advice whenever appropriate. Considering the fact that the Provisional Council is given the important tasks of both advising Your Excellency on matters related to the establishment of the permanent Regional Council and also on the full range of municipal services which might affect the daily lives of millions of New Territories residents, I think the valuable advice and support of the concerned government authorities would help to ensure the smooth inauguration of the permanent council.
Sir, with these remarks, I support the motion.
SECRETART FOR DISTRICT ADMINISTRATION:―Sir, I am grateful to Mr. Peter WONG for his proposed amendment which, I agree, will remove any possibility of ambiguity in the provisions on the disqualification of membership on grounds of criminal offence.
Like Mr. CHEUNG Yan-lung, I, too envisage that members of the Provisional Regional Council will have a heavy task ahead of them and I fully appreciate his concern over the short time they will have to prepare for the establishment of the Regional Council. Provided all concerned heed his advice, I am confident that, given the general experience of members of the Provisional Council in their own fields as well as the knowledge gained from the running of the Urban Council over past years, and effective support from the public service, we can be ready in time for the installation of the full Regional Council in 1986.
Sir, I beg to move.
Question put and agreed to.
Bill read the second time.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCILＺ―9 January 1985 503 Bill committed to a committee of the whole Council pursuant to Standing Order 43(1). TRADE MARKS (AMENDMENT) BILL 1984
Resumption of debate on second reading (19 December 1984)
Question proposed.
Question put and agreed to.
Bill read the second time.
Bill committed to a committee of the whole Council pursuant to Standing Order 43(1). FIRE SERVICES (AMENDMENT) BILL 1984
Resumption of debate on second reading (19 December 1984)
Question proposed.
Question put and agreed to.
Bill read the second time.
Bill committed to a committee of the whole Council pursuant to Standing Order 43(1). PUBLIC HEALTH AND URBAN SERVICES (AMENDMENT) BILL 1984 Resumption of debate on second reading (19 December 1984)
Question proposed.
Question put and agreed to.
Bill read the second time.
Bill committed to a committee of the whole Council pursuant to Standing Order 43(1).
504 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL―9 January 1985 EDUCATION (AMENDMENT) BILL 1984
Resumption of debate on second reading (19 December 1984)
Question proposed.
Question put and agreed to.
Bill read the second time.
Bill committed to a committee of the whole Council pursuant to Standing Order 43(1). Committee stage of bills
Council went into Committee.
ARBITRATION (AMENDMENT) (NO.2) BILL 1984
Clauses 1 and 2 were agreed to.
PROVISIONAL REGIONAL COUNCIL BILL 1984
Clauses 1 to 4, 6 to 12 were agreed to.
Clauses 5
MR. PETER C. WONG:―I move that clause 5 be amended as set out in the paper circulated to Members.
Proposed amendments
Clause 5
That clause 5(3) be amended in paragraph (g) by inserting before ‘has within the previous 10 years’ the following―
‘without prejudice to paragraph (b),’.
The amendments were agreed to.
Clause 5, as amended, was agreed to.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCILＺ―9 January 1985 505 FIRE SERVICES (AMENDMENT) BILL 1984
Clauses 1 to 3 were agreed to.
PUBLIC HEALTH AND URBAN SERVICES (AMENDMENT) BILL 1984 Clauses 1 and 2 were agreed to.
EDUCATION (AMENDMENT) BILL 1984
Clauses 1 to 4 were agreed to.
Council then resumed.
Third reading of bills
THE ATTORNEY GENERAL reported that the
ARBITRATION (AMENDMENT) (NO. 2) BILL
TRADE MARKS (AMENDMENT) BILL
FIRE SERVICES (AMENDMENT) BILL
PUBLIC HEALTH AND URBAN SERVICES (AMENDMENT) BILL and the EDUCATION (AMENDMENT) BILL
had passed through Committee without amendment and the
PROVISIONAL REGIONAL COUNCIL BILL
had passed through Committee with an amendment. He then moved the third reading of the Bills.
Question put on the Bills and agreed to.
Bills read the third time and passed.
506 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL―9 January 1985 Unofficial Member’s Motion
INTERNATIONAL YOUTH YEAR
MRS. SELINA CHOW moved the following motion:―That this Council welcomes Hong Kong’s active involvement in the International Youth Year.
She said:―1985 has been designated by the United Nations as the International Youth Year. By doing so, the intention is to draw world attention to the largest segment of the world population which will shape the world’s future.
Of the 5.3 million people in Hong Kong, 2.3 million are under the age of 25, and 3.74 million are under 40. It is only appropriate for us to take this opportunity to focus attention on them, their aspirations and their problems, and most important of all, the best way they could prepare themselves to meet the challenges immediately facing Hong Kong as a result of our change in constitutional status in 1997.
The three main themes of the International Youth Year are: participation, development and peace. On their own, they may sound lofty and idealistic. But when applied to present day Hong Kong, they are appropriate and timely.
In our hitherto apolitical community, most energy and effort have been successfully invested in private enterprise and personal development. However, events are such that we can no longer look towards others to assume our responsibility towards the community. Today we need to rely on ourselves, and in particular, our young people to provide us with the assurance we and the world need that Hong Kong will perpetuate our status quo through the successful transfer of power and responsibility of government from the existing administration to a representative system.
As a first step, therefore, a change of attitude must take place, so that our young people will shake off their inertia towards community affairs and assume a role of positive involvement in our society. Participation is essential so as to furnish those who participate with the necessary knowledge and experience before they can be ready to take on further responsibility and authority.
It is with a continuing process of learning through participation that we could further develop as worthwhile and effective contributors to our community.
It cannot be stressed enough, in my view, the value of social stability as a prerequisite to the maintenance of our present life-style. At this juncture, Hong Kong needs to be extra sensitive to this aspect of its development, as both the internal evolution towards a more adversarial style of politics, and the innovative experimentation of ‘one country two systems’ are likely to disturb the hitherto peaceful co-existence of many different and perhaps conflicting interests and beliefs. Care therefore needs to be exercised to maintan the state of peace in Hong Kong in the micro, macro as well as world context.
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On behalf of the Central Co-ordinating Committee of the International Youth Year, may I take this opportunity to express our appreciation to all those who have worked towards the celebration of the Year so far, and to urge every individual and corporation to continue to make the best of the occasion by initiating and supporting as many meaningful projects for and by youths as possible, for the sake of a brighter future for Hong Kong.
DR. IP:―Sir, in my maiden speech in this Council three years ago, I began by saying that ‘The children of our society today, the pillars of our society tomorrow.’ Whereas in 1973, 33.7 per cent (one third) of our population was under 15, now after 12 years, this group of children have become our youths. It may now be more appropriate to say, Sir, that ‘The children of our society yesterday, the youths of our society today, the pillars of our society tomorrow.’
Just as I stressed on the rights and the needs of our children, I see the importance of meeting the rights and needs of our youths. We must nurture our youths to grow up into mature, caring and responsible adults who have a balanced approach towards work and leisure. They need to be kept not just healthy, but physically fit with participation in sports so as to withstand the stresses of a modern society. They need to be educated to the extent of being internationally competitive. They must be convinced of the importance of human relationship, with particular reference to an adequate family and a healthy sex relationship. We must lead them towards a goal in life, which not only benefit themselves but the society in which they live. So that, in future they will be able to create for us an even better Hong Kong.
It is indeed reassuring that our Government is actively promoting this International Youth Year and the themes, participation, development and peace, no doubt will meet our objectives in fulfilling our responsibility to our youths.
Sir, with these words, I support the motion.
SECRETARY FOR DISTRICT ADMINISTRATION:―Sir, I am most grateful to Mrs. CHOW for moving, and Dr. IP for her support for, the resolution on Hong Kong’s participation in the International Youth Year.
In what she said, Mrs. CHOW has quite rightly underlined the significance to our young people at this time in our history of celebrating the International Youth Year with its message of ‘participation, development and peace’.
Like Mrs. CHOW, I, too, am most encouraged by the characteristic enthusiasm and dedication with which our agencies and organisations are taking up the challenge presented by the concept of the International Youth Year. We shall gain much by this involvement and it will be important to continue with these efforts with the same vigour in the years ahead.
Question put and agreed to.
508 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL―9 January 1985 Suspension of sitting
HIS EXCELLENCY THE PRESIDENT:―In accordance with Standing Orders I now suspend the Council until 2.30 p.m. on 10 January 1985.
Suspended accordingly at five minutes to six o’clock.
No comments yet.
Private notes are available after approval.