HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL—19th July 1972. 909
OFFICIAL REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS
Wednesday, 19th July 1972
The Council met at half-past Two o'clock
[MR PRESIDENT in the Chair]
PRESENT
HIS EXCELLENCY THE GOVERNOR (PRESIDENT)
SIR CRAWFORD MURRAY MACLEHOSE, KCMG, MBE
THE HONOURABLE THE COLONIAL SECRETARY (Acting)
MR MICHAEL DENYS ARTHUR CLINTON, CMG, GM*, JP
THE HONOURABLE THE ATTORNEY GENERAL (Acting)
MR GRAHAM RUPERT SNEATH, QC, JP
THE HONOURABLE THE SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS
MR DONALD COLLIN CUMYN LUDDINGTON, JP
THE HONOURABLE THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY
MR CHARLES PHILIP HADDON-CAVE, JP
THE HONOURABLE JAMES JEAVONS ROBSON, CBE, JP
DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS
DR THE HONOURABLE GERALD HUGH CHOA, CBE, JP
DIRECTOR OF MEDICAL AND HEALTH SERVICES
THE HONOURABLE JACK CATER, MBE, JP
DIRECTOR OF COMMERCE AND INDUSTRY
THE HONOURABLE PAUL TSUI KA-CHEUNG, OBE, JP
COMMISSIONER OF LABOUR
THE HONOURABLE IAN MACDONALD LIGHTBODY, JP
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT
THE HONOURABLE GEORGE TIPPETT ROWE, CBE, JP
DIRECTOR OF SOCIAL WELFARE
THE HONOURABLE ARTHUR PATRICK RICHARDSON, JP
DIRECTOR OF URBAN SERVICES (Acting)
THE HONOURABLE CHARLES JOHN GRAFTON LOWE, JP
DIRECTOR OF EDUCATION (Acting)
THE HONOURABLE WOO PAK-CHUEN, OBE, JP
THE HONOURABLE SZETO WAI, OBE, JP
THE HONOURABLE WILFRED WONG SIEN-BING, OBE, JP
THE HONOURABLE MRS ELLEN LI SHU-PUI, OBE, JP
THE HONOURABLE WILSON WANG TZE-SAM, OBE, JP
THE HONOURABLE HERBERT JOHN CHARLES BROWNE, OBE, JP DR THE HONOURABLE CHUNG SZE-YUEN, OBE, JP
THE HONOURABLE LEE QUO-WEI, OBE, JP
THE HONOURABLE ANN TSE-KAI, OBE, JP
THE HONOURABLE ROGERIO HYNDMAN LOBO, OBE, JP
THE HONOURABLE MRS CATHERINE JOYCE SYMONS, OBE, JP
THE HONOURABLE JAMES WU MAN-HON, JP
THE HONOURABLE LI FOOK-WO, OBE, JP
THEHONOURABLE HUGH MOSS GERALD FORSGATE, JP
ABSENT
THE HONOURABLE DENIS CAMPBELL BRAY, JP
DISTRICT COMMISSIONER, NEW TERRITORIES
IN ATTENDANCE
THE CLERK TO THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL
MR RODERICK JOHN FRAMPTON
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL—19th July 1972. 910
Oaths
Messrs C. J. G. LOWE and H. M. G. FORSGATE took the Oath of Allegiance and assumed their seats as Members of the Council.
HIS EXCELLENCY THE PRESIDENT: —May I welcome Messrs LOWE and FORSGATE to this Council.
Papers
The following papers were laid pursuant to Standing Order No 14(2): — Subject LN No
Subsidiary Legislation: —
Criminal Procedure Ordinance.
Criminal Appeal (Amendment) Rules 1972 .................... 133
Matrimonial Causes Ordinance.
Matrimonial Causes (Amendment) Rules 1972 .............. 135 Colonial Police Long Service Medal Hong Kong ................... 137
Telecommunication Ordinance.
Telecommunication (Amendment) (No 2) Regulations
1972 ......................................................... .............. 138
Hong Kong Additional Instructions 1972 .............................. 139
Matilda and War Memorial Hospital Ordinance.
Resolution of amending the articles of constitution 140
Oral answers to questions
Health and Safety Committee of TIAB
1. DR S. Y. CHUNG asked: —
Is Government in a position to publish, as well as to state view on, the findings and recommendations of the Health and Safety Committee of the Trade and Industry Advisory Board?
MR J. CATER: —Sir, my honourable Friend will recall that at the Council meeting of 3rd November 1971, I reported that the Health and Safety Committee of the Trade and Industry Advisory Board and submitted an Interim Report recommending the institution of an award scheme by the leading trade and industrial associations. I understand
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL—19th July 1972. 911
that the Federation of Hong Kong Industries, after consultation with various other bodies, is now in the process of devising a suitable scheme.
Following the submission of its Interim Report, the Health and Safety Committee met eight times in order to consider generally the problems of health and safety standards of foodstuffs, toys and children's playthings, and electrical products powered by mains supply; and to advise on measures which should be taken to reduce any problems which were identified.
The Committee submitted its Final Report to me on 14th April. Despite the fact that the total number of overseas complaints about the health and safety aspects of Hong Kong products received by my Department is relatively small, the Committee felt that, in view of the disproportionate amount of publicity which these complaints generated and the increasing consumer protection activities apparent in Hong Kong's major markets, guidelines should be drawn up which, if followed by manufacturers, would avoid the export of manifestly dangerous and unhygienic products. The Committee recommended that, when prepared, such guidelines should be widely disseminated. The Committee also recommended that a surveillance licensing system should be instituted in respect of the three categories of products which I have just mentioned. That is, foodstuffs, toys and electrical products using mains power. Export licensing would allow my department to monitor exports of these products. The Committee recommended that, if licensing were introduced for these three categories, a system of spot-checks by my industrial inspectors should be commenced. The inspectors would draw samples from factories and submit them to laboratories for testing.
However, such a system could be expensive to operate on a scale necessary to achieve effective results. After considering the Committee's proposals in depth, therefore, I came to the conclusion that the extent of the problem, although difficult to quantify, was not yet sufficiently serious to warrant the considerable interference with trade and the substantial expenditure of public funds that a spot-check system would entail. I did, however, feel able to support the Committee's proposal for the institution of an export licensing system which, I believe, would cause little disruption to the trade at minimal public cost. The mere fact that the products were subject to export licensing control would give me a degree of control over exports which I do not at present have. I would, for example, be able to prohibit the export of products which had been shown to be manifestly dangerous or which were sufficiently dangerous to be the cause of serious complaint.
My proposals were considered and endorsed by the Trade and Industry Advisory Board at its meeting of 12th June and they are now
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL—19th July 1972. 912
[MR CATER] Oral Answers
being considered further within Government. Once a final decision has been made, I would hope that the report of the Committee will be published.
DR CHUNG: —Sir, I can appreciate the reasons for Government not accepting at this stage the spot-check systems proposed by the Committee; however, may I ask my honourable Friend whether, in view of the increasing consumer protection measures enforced by Government in Hong Kong's major markets, will Government reconsider the spot-check system proposed by the Committee should adverse publicity arise from abroad?
MR CATER: —Sir, it will be appreciated that I cannot at this stage forecast precisely what action may be necessary in the future. This will depend upon the situation prevailing at any particular time and on the experience which we shall gain with any export licensing control. The extent to which any new safety legislation or regulations enacted in Hong Kong's major markets, complying with such legislation or regulations and the practicality of a spot-check system or, indeed, of any other measures which might reduce the impact of the problem, would have to be taken into account.
The Health and Safety Committee reached the conclusion that the spot check system they proposed would not alone guarantee that exports of dangerous products would be significantly reduced. To establish such control over exports, which would guarantee that no complaints would arise overseas, would require the institution of a very much larger and far more expensive scheme than that proposed by the Committee. For the reasons I have already given, this would neither be acceptable to the Government nor, I believe, to the trade in the present circumstances.
It's the case that the incidence of serious complaints—at least, those reported to my Department—has increased over the past five years. In 1966 my Department dealt with eleven complaints of this nature; in 1971 the figure was forty-three. The increase does not, in my view, necessarily reflect an increase in exports of dangerous products; it probably does reflect, however, a considerable increase in activity by consumer protection agencies, such as those mentioned by my honourable Friend, in our principal markets coupled with an increase in the number of specific health and safety standards to which our exports are subject.
I'd like to assure my honourable Friend that I intend to continue to keep the situation under surveillance and to carry out periodic
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL—19th July 1972. 913
reviews on the effectiveness of any system which may be introduced to reduce exports of unhygienic and dangerous products. I have, in any event, recommended with the approval of the TIAB that the proposed export licensing control should be introduced for a period of, say, one year, following which a review should be carried out to see whether and to what extent the remainder of the Committee's recommendations should be accepted and implemented.
In other words, Sir, the short answer to my honourable Friend is "Yes". (Laughter).
Teachers salaries and Code of Aid for schools
2. MRS C. J. SYMONS asked: —
Will Government make every effort to implement by the beginning of the new academic year the new salary scales for teachers, and the proposals negotiated for the new Code of Aid for schools?
THE COLONIAL SECRETARY (ACTING) (MR M. D. A. CLINTON): —Sir, taking the first part of the question first, the short answer is "Yes". However, Government is not the only party involved and much depends on the progress of the long drawn out and complicated consultations now being urgently, indeed almost daily, conducted with representatives of the Staff Side of the Senior Civil Service Council, comprising the three Civil Service Associations, which are representing Government teachers. I would not wish to say more than this at present as the negotiations have reached a rather delicate stage and I would not like to put my foot in it.
As regards the new Code of Aid, the short and honest answer is that we will make every effort to implement it quickly but that it would be unrealistic to expect results by September this year. Nonetheless, my honourable Friend may be pleased to hear that the draft Code is now in an advanced stage and, hopefully, agreement on the outstanding points with the Grant and Subsidized Schools Councils can be reached in time for the new unified Code to be introduced in April 1973, though I should perhaps add that there are still a few formidable hurdles to be surmounted, namely the Board of Education, the Executive Council and last, but not least, the Finance Committee of this Council.
Hong Ning Road squatter resite area
3. MR R. H. LOBO asked: —
Is Government satisfied that there is no serious danger from landslides or floods to the residents of the Kwun Tong Hong Ning Road Squatter Resite Area?
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL—19th July 1972. 914
Oral Answers
MR I. M. LIGHTBODY: —Sir, this is one of many licensed areas, squatter areas and cottage areas examined by an experienced engineer of the Public Works Department since the June rainstorms to determine whether they had become unsafe for habitation as a result of these rains. Following on these inspections, many areas or parts of areas have been scheduled for clearance involving the removal of over 24,000 persons, the great majority of whom will be eligible for public housing, and the rest for re-siting.
However, it was decided that the Hong Ning Road licensed area could continue to be used provided that one section of it, now standing empty, is left vacant, and provided drainage channels are improved. That is, there appears to be no serious risk of landslide or flooding in this area, but as an added precaution the engineer who conducted these inspections has recommended that further detailed investigations of this and other sites should be conducted to determine their stability more exactly.
MR LOBO: —The honourable Mr LIGHTBODY’s answer, Sir, seems to infer that the site as it is at present still constitutes some danger. Am I to take it that that is correct?
MR LIGHTBODY: —No, Sir. Our advice is that it is not in any danger at all but it is a site which is earmarked not only for present use but for long term development, and it is felt that on the whole it would be best to have a further check made of this and other areas. This site, as it stands today, I am assured is not dangerous.
MR P. C. WOO: —Sir, may I ask my honourable Friend whether a further detailed investigation has taken place and, if not, whether it can be undertaken immediately?
MR LIGHTBODY: —Sir, I take due note of the honourable Member's point and I will bring this to the attention of the Public Works Department. We have indeed already invited the district engineer concerned to put this survey in hand as soon as possible; but, subject to what my honourable Friend the Director of Public Works might feel, Sir, this is not a casual job—this subsequent inspection—it is, I think, quite a complex operation and will inevitably take time.
Vegetables from China
4. MR WILFRED S. B. WONG asked: —
Is it true that there are no facilities in Kowloon for landing and handling of vegetables imported from China? If so,
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL—19th July 1972. 915
can arrangements be made to that end, so as to reduce the delay and deterioration caused by passing the vegetables through the Kennedy Town Wholesale Vegetable Market?
THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY (MR C. P. HADDON-CAVE): —Sir, there are no facilities for landing imported vegetables in Kowloon. The trade is centred on Kennedy Town and is based, as my honourable Friend knows, on long-standing traditional practices. Imported vegetables constitute about 54%, or so we calculate, of total consumption.
The Government has been for some time concerned with the inadequacy of facilities in Kowloon for dealing with imported vegetables. The concentration of the trade in Kennedy Town aggravates congestion in the whole western waterfront area, while the need to transport vegetables to Kowloon adds unnecessarily to handling costs. In July 1970 a Wholesale Markets Planning Unit was established in the Agriculture and Fisheries Department to carry out detailed investigations into the wholesale marketing of primary products generally. As a result, plans have been drawn up for the establishment in Cheung Sha Wan of a new wholesale market for imported vegetables, fruit and poultry, together with the necessary wharf space. The Public Works Sub Committee is to be asked to recommend a Category B item in the Public Works Programme at the Second Review next month. If the Sub-Committee agrees to do this, and Finance Committee accepts the recommendation, then I would expect the new market to be constructed and in operation by mid-1976.
MR WONG: —Sir, will Government give an assurance that after the proposal for the Cheung Sha Wan new wholesale vegetable market is given approval by the relevant committees, priority in planning and construction will be given?
THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY (MR HADDON-CAVE): —That is a very difficult question to answer, Sir, because priority is such a relative matter but we are very concerned at the present unsatisfactory arrangements for the marketing of produce. This cross-harbour traffic really benefits no-one and it certainly is our intention to have this market in operation as soon as possible.
MR WOO: —Sir, most of the imported vegetables come from China by the Kowloon-Canton Railway and the transfer of the vegetables from Kowloon to Hong Kong and back to Kowloon considerably increases the route they take. Would my honourable Friend consider whether, in view of the fact that the new market will not be in operation until mid-1976, a temporary market could be constructed in Kowloon?
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL—19th July 1972. 916
Oral Answers
THE FINANCLAL SECRETARY (MR HADDON-CAVE): —I don't think that is a very practical suggestion, Sir, but certainly I shall have it looked into. I think my honourable Friend is in some error when saying that most of our vegetables imported from China come by the Kowloon-Canton Railway; in fact in 1971-72 we imported a total quantity of 253,000 metric tons of which 191,000 metric tons came by sea.
Public light bus fares
5. MR WONG asked: —
Has Government any intention to introduce control of fares for public light buses?
THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY (MR HADDON-CAVE): —Sir, public light buses were regularized in late 1969 as a flexible form of public transport which would meet demand wherever it arose. Routes were not specified and, except for certain prohibited areas, these vehicles were free to ply for hire anywhere. Operators were left to set their own fares, these fares being limited only by competition with each other and with other forms of public transport.
The relative freedom accorded to the operators of public light buses was basically a recognition of the intention that public light buses should be a flexible form of public transport. In the course of time, however, public light buses have tended to operate over well-defined routes. While more or less standard fares are charged at normal times some operators put up their fares, sometimes by a significant margin, at weekends, on holidays and on certain other occasions. Instances have also been known of operators dropping their passengers short of the destination declared on the notice board which all public light buses are required by law to display in front of their vehicles. Inevitably, such practices have caused confusion and resentment among the travelling public.
Bearing in mind the extent to which the travelling public has come to rely on public light buses as a form of public transport, the Transport Advisory Committee is, I understand, concerned that any tendency towards undue profiteering by operators should be checked. The Committee is, therefore, considering a proposal that public light bus operators should be required, first, to register their normal routes with the Transport Department, together with the maximum fares that they wish to charge over those routes at peak and non-peak periods and, second, to adhere to these registered routes and fares which should, of course, be displayed inside and outside their vehicles. Now these are
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL—19th July 1972. 917
quite radical proposals and the Committee has not as yet reached any firm conclusions, but when they do, and if they do, I can assure my honourable Friend that their recommendations will be carefully considered by Government.
Royal Observatory
6. MR H. J. C. BROWNE asked: —
Have Government any plans for moving the Royal Observatory out of the urban area thereby releasing valuable land in Tsim Sha Tsui?
MR J. J. ROBSON: —Sir, the Director of the Royal Observatory has advised that although alternative sites have been considered, none are suitable for the specialized operation and communication requirements of his Department. In addition, aside from the large cost of rebuilding and installing specialized equipment, the continuity of some 80 years' geophysical records of both local and international value would be lost.
If, however, it were possible for the Royal Observatory to move out of the urban area, the present site, which is zoned on the statutory plan for Government, Institution, and Community purposes, would be used for open space.
DR CHUNG: —I must admit, Sir, I could not understand my honourable Friend's statement that if we move the headquarters of the Royal Observatory the continuity of some 80 years geophysical records of both local and international value would be lost. Would my honourable Friend elaborate his statement in greater detail?
MR ROBSON: —I think the recent rainstorms illustrated just how meteorological records and data vary very rapidly from area to area in this Colony. All our standard records are based on readings taken at the Royal Observatory on Observatory Hill and therefore it is important for continuity that you keep the same records there. Now this is the point. If the Observatory moves to some other location it will have a different standard for that location which couldn't be applied to the one at Observatory Hill. That is the point that the Director has made to me.
DR CHUNG: —Sir, I take it that even when we move the Royal Observatory, the point of measurement can still remain there for that purpose?
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL—19th July 1972. 918
Oral Answers
MR ROBSON: —Well there are all the Observatory records kept there— rainfall, pressure, seismograph—there are a great number of them. If the instruments are kept there then the staff should be kept there to read them and therefore the station has to remain there. (Laughter).
MR BROWNE: —Sir, while noting the advice of the Director of the Royal Observatory, could I ask that this should be weighed by Government to decide the merits of his advice against the merits of the requirement for open space for community purposes?
MR ROBSON: —I will have the matter considered, Sir. (Laughter).
Refuse collection at Main Road, Aberdeen
7. MR FORSGATE asked: —
Will the Director of Public Works take steps to expedite the construction of an off-street refuse collection point to replace the existing offensive street collection point at Main Road Aberdeen?
MR ROBSON: —Sir, the refuse collection point at Main Road, Aberdeen, is a temporary one and will be replaced by a permanent collection point at Tsung Man Street, Aberdeen, as soon as site arrangements can be finalized. There is an item in Category D of the Public Works Programme for this purpose, but there are difficulties in finding a suitable site.
The collection point at Main Road has been made more objectionable recently because the refuse incinerator at Ap Lei Chau has broken down, and refuse therefore has to be transported to Aberdeen for collection. The incinerator is being repaired as quickly as possible and when it is back in action the situation at Main Road will improve.
MR FORSGATE: —Sir, in view of the very strong complaints received by UMELCO about this collection point, can the honourable Director of Public Works give a specific date for the repair of the incinerator and possibly use his influence to upgrade this particular item?
MR ROBSON: —I'm sorry, Sir, I can't give a specific date when it's going to be repaired because it's damaged very badly. It has to be virtually rebuilt. What I am going to recommend is that while it is being rebuilt at the same time we build the bigger incinerator which
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL—19th July 1972. 919
will be required for the low cost housing estate on Ap Lei Chau when it is built— that is, that we should build the incinerator before we build the housing estate.
MR WOO: —May I draw my honourable Friend's attention to the fact that he has not answered Mr FORSGATE's second point that the item should be upgraded in the Public Works Programme from Category D?
MR ROBSON: —Sir, the item is in Category D of the Public Works Programme. This means it's a small project which doesn't get upgraded. It's an item which costs less than a certain amount of money. If we had the site now we could start building just as soon as we had the people to put on it.
Violence in Chinese language films
8. MR T. K. ANN asked: —
Will Government take steps to moderate or curtail, if necessary by stricter censorship, the gory scenes of violence appearing in many Chinese language films which are shown locally and seen by young persons of an impressionable age?
MR D. C. C. LUDDINGTON: —Sir, the Government is aware of a strong body of opinion that many local films portray too much violence and include unnecessarily detailed scenes of wounds and suffering. In addition, the Panel of Film Censors and the Board of Review, of which I am Chairman, are aware that portrayal of sadistic or detailed and prolonged scenes of violence could have an unhealthy influence on young and impressionable minds. I understand that in recent weeks the Panel has generally been taking a sterner view of violence in films submitted for censorship and that it will continue to do so.
However, the setting of the films concerned will continue to influence the Panel's decisions since it seems to be generally agreed that fantastic films about by-gone days are less likely to be harmful than films set in modem times with more realistic, and all too often sadistic, portrayals of violence.
I have had discussions with the Chief Censor and the Secretary to the Panel of Censors about the need to warn film producers that the quantity and quality of violence portrayed is regarded as excessive and I will certainly pursue this matter further.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL—19th July 1972. 920
Oral Answers
MR ANN: —Sir, may I ask a supplementary question? In view of the fact that the honourable Attorney General objected to indecent pictures of dead bodies appearing in newspapers some time ago, and since those pictures were not in colour and less offensive, does this not show that Government's policy of censorship of films is incompatible with its policy regarding offensive pictures in printed publications?
THE SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS (MR LUDDINGTON): —I don't think so, Sir. The situation is really the necessity for the particular picture that was shown in the newspapers. There will certainly be an argument in relation to films that particular scenes are part of the story and make the story. Whether one agrees with this or not in each case is really a matter for the individual censor.
DR CHUNG: —Is my honourable Friend aware that certain criticisms have been made against the composition of the Panel of Film Censors which is composed, I understand, only of elderly gentlemen and, if so, will be consider a more balanced composition both in sex and in age?
THE SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS (MR LUDDINGTON): —This goes slightly beyond the question, I think, but I am happy to say that I am quite prepared to consider the composition of the Panel of Censors and have reason to do so in the very near future.
MR WOO: —Sir, may I ask a supplementary? I think that my honourable Friend Mr ANN is more concerned with young persons at an impressionable age. Will my honourable Friend see that these films are not shown to these youngsters rather than to adults?
THE SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS (MR LUDDINGTON): —Sir, the situation is that the Panel of Censors do, in films where they think it is appropriate, issue a warning that the film is not suitable for young persons. The situation is that it is then really up to parents and others to judge whether their children should go to these films. There is no statutory requirement that young persons should be actually refused admission to cinemas.
Typhoon shelters
9. MR JAMES M. H. WU asked: —
Would Government give an up to date assessment of the adequacy or otherwise of typhoon shelters? Are additional shelters needed and, if so, when will they be built?
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL—19th July 1972. 921
MR ROBSON: —Sir, as I intimated to this Council on 1st September last year in response to a question raised by the honourable Mrs Ellen LI, a full review of typhoon shelter requirements has been carried out by the Director of Marine and this is now under examination in the Colonial Secretariat. The report indicates a shortage of 114 acres of sheltered space specifically designed for use as typhoon shelters but, at the present moment, this is largely offset by areas of sheltered water such as the area between Kai Tak runway and Kowloon Bay reclamation which are used by floating craft during typhoons.
In the meantime I am happy to say that the following measures are being taken by Government to improve the overall situation. The depth of water in certain portions of the typhoon shelters at Aberdeen will shortly be reduced by the dumping of material from site formation for the Ap Lei Chau Government housing estate. This will provide better holding ground for the anchors of fishing craft and it is hoped that these portions of the shelters will then be used during typhoons instead of being avoided as at present.
In respect of the present shelter in Kowloon Bay which is used by a large number of vessels during typhoons, whilst this is not an official typhoon shelter, as I have indicated, it has been used as a typhoon anchorage for some years. Although reclamation is taking place in this area, space for typhoon anchorage will be retained until the new 100-acre typhoon shelter at present under construction at Kwun Tong has been completed. This is expected by mid-1974.
A 120-acre shelter and cargo-handling basin at Castle Peak is in Category B of the Public Works Programme as part of the new town development. It is intended to seek approval of the Public Works Sub-Committee of the Finance Committee of this Council for upgrading this project to Category A in the Public Works Programme so that work can start in 1973 for completion in 1976.
There are also items in the Public Works Programme for a large typhoon shelter in the south western approaches and a small one in the Sai Kung area, but the timing of these is still indefinite.
To sum up, although over 170 acres of temporary typhoon anchorages will be lost by reclamation in the period up to 1975, by that time the area of typhoon anchorages available will be increased from the present 866 acres to over 940 acres by the construction of over 200 acres of properly designed typhoon anchorages at Kwun Tong, Castle Peak and Chai Wan.
MR WU: —Sir, you will please note that the increase of 866 acres to over 940 acres represents an increase of less than ten per cent. In view of the fact that lighters loading and unloading ships in the harbour
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL—19th July 1972. 922
[MR WU] Oral Answers
now have to cease work and rush to typhoon shelters at the hoisting of signal no 1 in order to be sure of a berthing place, thus causing delays and loss of manhours amounting to many millions of dollars each time according to one knowledgable source, would Government please ensure that adequate anchorages be provided to prevent undue delay in our vital port activities?
MR ROBSON: —Sir, I think these facts were known to the Committee which carried out the typhoon shelter review and they came to the recommendations which I have outlined as being sufficient to provide for the future. All we can do is to press on with the construction of these shelters as quickly as possible. The work is in hand and will, as I say, be pressed on with as quickly as possible.
MR FORSGATE: —Sir, it' s unfortunate to learn that the typhoon shelter at Aberdeen is still very unpopular and, hopefully, this dumping will improve the holding ground; but I understand that my honourable Friend the Director of Public Works is also considering improving the efficiency of typhoon shelters by erecting dolphins—improving mooring arrangements and thereby making it easier to clear the typhoon shelters after a typhoon.
MR ROBSON: —I think, Sir, that was a statement of fact rather than a question—but I confirm it. (Laughter).
Government business
Motion
GOVERNMENT LOTTERIES ORDINANCE
THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY (MR HADDON-CAVE) moved the following motion: —
It is hereby resolved that approval be given to the appropriation, by way of grant under section 6(4) of the Government Lotteries Ordinance, of the amounts specified in the first column of the Schedule, to the organizations specified opposite thereto in the second column of the Schedule, for the purposes specified opposite thereto in the third column of the Schedule.
It is further resolved that the Director of Social Welfare be authorized to make minor capital grants up to $25,000 each from the block grants approved from time to time by this Council.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL—19th July 1972. 923
SCHEDULE
Amount Organization Purpose
1. $300,000 Chinese. Y.M.C.A. Construction of a swimming pool at Wu
Kwai Shai
2. $ 57,600 Hong Kong Family Welfare Society
3. $ 38,500 Hong Kong Federation of Youth Groups
Home help service experimental project
Provision of additional equipment
4. $170,000 Cheung Chau Rural Committee Construction of a community centre
5. $202,500 Holy Carpenter Church Provision of a community centre
6. $ 22,000 Ebenezer School and Home for the Blind
7. $ 54,250 Society for the Aid and Rehabilitation of Drug Addicts
8. $347,500 Outward Bound Trust of Hong Kong Ltd.
9. $422,206 University of Hong Kong— Paediatric Department
10. $ 21,700 Duke of Edinburgh's Award, Hong Kong
11. $ 31,500 St. John Ambulance Association and Brigade
12. $ 55,000 Hong Kong Sports Association for the Physically Handicapped
13. $ 30,500 Family Planning Association of Hong Kong
Renovation of gymnasium
Pilot scheme for the treatment of female addicts
Purchase of equipment
Extension of the Child Development Survey
Purchase of camping equipment
Purchase of three replacement ambulances
Participation in Paralympic Games Heidelberg, 1972
Purchase of a mini-bus to serve outlying clinics
14. $519,544 Hong Kong Society for the Blind Major renovation of the Tokwawan Workshop for
the Blind
15. $300,000 Director of Social Welfare Discretionary grant to cover minor capital
allocation not exceeding
$25,000 in each case
He said: —Sir, the purpose of this resolution is to seek approval for the allocation of 15 grants from the Lotteries Fund. These grants have been recommended by the Social Welfare Advisory Committee, the total sum of money involved being $2,572,800. Under section 6(5) of the Government Lotteries Ordinance, the prior approval by resolution
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL—19th July 1972. 924
[THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY] Government Lotteries Ordinance of this Council is required for the allocation of grants from the Lotteries Fund.
An additional purpose of the resolution is to extend the power of the Director of Social Welfare to make capital grants for minor and very often urgent applications. At present block allocations of $200,000 are made to the Director of Social Welfare from time to time to enable him to approve minor capital grants not exceeding $15,000 in any one instance. The resolution now proposes that a block grant of $300,000 be made to the Director of Social Welfare, and that the limit on minor capital grants be raised to $25,000 in any one instance.
Now as regards the 15 items specified in the Schedule to the resolution: items 2, 7 and 9 deal with experimental projects of a limited duration; items 3, 8 and 10 are for purchases and replacement of equipment; the remaining items are for capital works. All these items come within the scope of section 6 of the Lotteries Ordinance which defines the purposes for which allocations from the Fund may be made; and the Governor has, under section 6(4) of the Ordinance, approved the social welfare services and projects concerned as being worthy of assistance from the Lotteries Fund.
If this resolution is passed, the balance remaining in the Lotteries Fund will be approximately $9.5 million.
Question put and agreed to.
First reading
PUBLIC HEALTH AND URBAN SERVICES (AMENDMENT) (NO 3) BILL 1972
CROWN LAND BILL 1972
Bills read the first time and ordered to be set down for second reading pursuant to Standing Order No 41(3).
Second reading
PUBLIC HEALTH AND URBAN SERVICES (AMENDMENT) (NO 3) BILL 1972
MR A. P. RICHARDSON moved the second reading of: —"A bill to amend the Public Health and Urban Services Ordinance."
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL—19th July 1972. 925
He said: —Sir, experience has shown a need to amend certain existing regulations in order to improve the administration of private cemeteries in the New Territories and to make the management of both private and public cemeteries rather more uniform. Hence clause 2 of the bill seeks to amend section 116 of the principal Ordinance to enlarge the regulation making powers of the Authority relating to private cemeteries. It will enable the Authority to make regulations prescribing, or providing for, the depth and size of graves and vaults, burial fees and other matters which it may consider necessary for the proper regulation and control of both private and public cemeteries in the public interest.
Clause 3 seeks to amend section 118 of the principal Ordinance. This is essentially a tidying up exercise with the object of enabling the Authority to charge for permission granted under section 118(2) of the Ordinance to exhume human remains in any cemetery or from places outside authorized cemeteries.
Clause 4 makes a consequential amendment to the Third Schedule. Question put and agreed to.
Bill read the second time.
Bill committed to a committee of the whole Council pursuant to Standing Order No 43(l).
Explanatory Memorandum
Clause 2 amends the principal Ordinance so as to enlarge the regulation making powers of the Authority relating to private cemeteries. It will enable the Authority to make regulations prescribing or providing for the depth and size of graves and vaults, the fees payable in relation to burials and other matters which it may consider necessary for the proper regulation and control of public and private cemeteries in the public interest.
Clause 3 will enable the Authority to charge for permission granted under section 118(2) of the principal Ordinance to exhume human remains and clause 4 makes a consequential amendment to the Third Schedule thereof.
CROWN LAND BILL 1972
MR ROBSON moved the second reading of: —"A bill to provide for matters relating to Crown land."
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL—19th July 1972. 926
Crown Land Bill—second reading
He said: —Sir, briefly the bill before honourable Members consolidates and revises the existing statutory provisions dealing with, first, the occupation of unleased Crown land, second, the control of excavation works in unleased Crown land (which is particularly important in respect of works carried out by utility companies in public streets), third, the control of unlawful structures on leased land and land occupied under licence and, fourth, the vesting of private streets in the Crown. These matters are dealt with in Parts II to V of the bill respectively. Part VI makes provision for the necessary powers needed by authorized persons to carry out their duties and for the Governor in Council to make regulations specifying, inter alia, the fees to be paid for occupying Crown land or using it for specified purposes.
Basically certain sections of the Summary Offences and Resettlement Ordinances are replaced but two new important measures are introduced. The first of these is at Part V of the bill. This introduces a simple procedure so that Government can take over a private street which the owners are required by their leases to hand back to the Crown but are prevented from doing so because of legal difficulties. This often happens in the case of private streets fronted by blocks of flats in multi-ownership. The second important change in the existing statutory law is that mere unlawful occupation of Crown land ceases to be a criminal offence.
One of the most important provisions of the bill is, however, that contained in clause 6 which introduces a simple procedure for the clearance of unlawfully occupied or used Crown land. This gives powers to enable my honourable Friend, the District Commissioner New Territories, the General Manager of the Railway or me to serve a notice requiring the unlawful occupation to cease within any period which may be decided. If the trespasser does not comply with this notice within the period laid down, he may be removed from the land and the Crown may take possession of anything remaining on it which then becomes Government property to be disposed of as thought fit. In the event of anyone failing to comply with any notice requiring him to cease unlawful occupation he will be committing an offence and shall be liable, on conviction, to a fine of $10,000 and to imprisonment for 6 months. This provision, as honourable Members will doubtless appreciate, is very necessary to prevent the continued illegal storage on Crown land which is so prevalent today of such items as ships containers, scrap cars, balks of timber, bales of paper and numerous articles, many of which can block drains with serious consequences in the event of heavy rains such as we have recently experienced.
I would also like to draw honourable Members' attention to the fact that, in accordance with clause 1 of the bill, the provisions will not
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL—19th July 1972. 927
come into effect until the Governor appoints an appropriate date which will be published by notice in the Government Gazette.
Motion made. That the debate on the second reading of the bill be adjourned—MR ROBSON.
Question put and agreed to.
Explanatory Memorandum
This Bill consolidates and revises the existing statutory provisions dealing with the occupation of unleased Crown land, the control of unlawful structures on leased land and land occupied under licence, and the control of excavation works in unleased Crown land (particularly in public streets). It also introduces new provisions for the vesting in the Crown of private streets in certain cases.
Occupation of unleased land
Clause 4 declares that unleased Crown land shall not be occupied except under a licence or a deed or memorandum of appropriation. Clause 6 introduces a single procedure for the clearance of Crown land which is unlawfully occupied or used. The Authority is empowered to serve notice requiring the unlawful occupation to cease within a specified period. If the notice is not complied with, the Authority may remove trespassers from the land and take possession of any property thereon, which will then belong to the Crown. Failure to comply with such a notice will be an offence. The Authority may recover any costs arising out of the exercise of the powers conferred by this section from a person convicted of an offence under it.
An important change from the existing law is that mere unlawful occupation of Crown land will no longer be a criminal offence. The remedy will be either civil proceedings for trespass or action under clause 6. Similarly, the offence of encroaching on Crown land is abolished and encroachments will be treated as a form of unlawful occupation of Crown land. It is however, necessary to retain the offence of extracting or removing earth, turf or stone except under a permit.
Excavations in unleased Crown land
Clause 8, which re-enacts section 4(27) of the Summary Offences Ordinance, prohibits any excavation in unleased Crown land without a permit. If an excavation is made without a permit, the Authority may reinstate the land and recover the cost of this from the person responsible.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL—19th July 1972. 928
Crown Land Bill—second reading
[Explanatory Memorandum]
Clause 9, which deals with the reinstatement of unleased Crown land following excavation therein, makes statutory provision for matters which are at present regulated by conditions of a permit issued under section 4(27) of the Summary Offences Ordinance. These matters are of such importance as to warrant statutory provision therefor.
Clause 10 will enable the Authority to provide safety and other facilities for the benefit of the public if the person responsible for excavation works fails to provide them in accordance with the conditions of an excavation permit.
Unlawful structures on land held under lease or licence
Clauses 11, 12 and 13 reproduce in substance the provisions of sections 10, 11, 14 and 15 of the Resettlement Ordinance. Clause 11 requires a Crown lessee or a person occupying land under licence to report the existence of unlawful structures which are being erected or have been erected since 22nd October 1965. Clause 12 empowers the Authority to serve on a lessee or occupier of land a notice requiring him to demolish an unlawful structure on the land and contains the necessary related provisions. In particular, the Governor is authorized to order that property, of which possession is taken by the Authority in default of compliance with such a notice, or the value thereof, shall be delivered or paid to a person with a moral claim to it.
Private streets
Part V introduces a simple procedure for vesting in the Crown a private street which the owners are bound by agreement to surrender to the Crown free of cost when called upon to do so.
General
Clause 16 makes it an offence to obstruct a public officer acting under clause 6 or 12 or any person assisting any such public officer. Clause 18, which follows in substance section 58 of the Resettlement Ordinance, exempts the Government and the Authority from liability for loss or damage suffered in consequence of action under clause 6 or 12.
CRIMES (AMENDMENT) BILL 1972
Resumption of debate on second reading (5th July 1972)
Question again proposed.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL—19th July 1972. 929
Question put and agreed to.
Bill read the second time.
Bill committed to a committee of the whole Council pursuant to Standing Order No 43(l).
ROAD TRAFFIC (AMENDMENT) BILL 1972
Resumption of debate on second reading (5th July 1972)
Question again proposed.
MR SZETO WAI: —Sir, the amending bill to enable sale by auctions of selected vehicle registration numbers will be a popular move and will be welcomed by many private car owners who take special fancy in certain vehicle registration marks for which they would offer good prices. These numbers are looked upon as "good", prestigious", "lucky" or propitious numbers that are unprefixed, low numbers of one or two digits and numbers of special combinations such as in suit, in pairs and numbers which are formed of three or four of the same numeral and numbers constituting round figures. Such registration marks are always in demand and can command unbelievably high prices which fact makes what the honourable Financial Secretary has said about hundreds or even thousands of dollars look like an understatement. Indeed some numbers are so highly valued that it is no exaggeration to say that they are worth more than the vehicles they are on. It is also common knowledge that expensive cars are generally decorated with registration marks which are more an indication of the status symbol of their owners than their years of first registration, for it is pretty well impossible to see a new Rolls Royce so undignified as to be aborned with a longish prefixed registration mark. One is therefore driven to the conclusion that vehicles of such class are customarily acquired and equipped with a prestigious number as an expensive option. Evidently, market forces play their part in the demand and supply of these “good” and propitious numbers and, whilst obviously there is open trading on this valuable commodity, it will be ostrich-like not to recognize the possibility or even the existence of irregular practice, though my honourable Friend attributed the thriving market to the judicious capacity of the motor-car traders as if they were powered by computer-brains. I, however, agree with him that the present bill will rid the Transport Department of a continuing source of embarrassment by bringing the allocation of sale of the much coveted numbers within the ambit of the law and by a respectable process contributing to a noble cause. This would have the double merit of public acceptability and of jacking-up the auction price as witnessed by the recent TV charity show.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL—19th July 1972. 930
[MR SZETO] Road Traffic (Amendment) Bill—resumption of debate on second reading (5.7.72)
My honourable Friend has referred to the special privilege accorded to Members of the Executive Council and this Council by allocating good numbers to their cars. The accuracy of this statement will be challenged by my honourable Friend Dr CHUNG who will no doubt, as usual, produce his statistics.
The present proposal was first considered by the Transport Advisory Committee over 2½ years ago who recommended that, to avoid a greedy image of Government, the proceeds from the periodic auctions of "good" numbers should be devoted to charitable purposes and not to help swell the public coffers. I am glad that Government has finally accepted the recommendation though I fail to see the reason for the long delay since the amending bill is one of little complexity and could have been introduced much earlier. The delay has regrettably robbed charity of a very substantial sum as hundreds or even thousands of these "good" or prestigious numbers must have, in the course of 2½ years, found their way into the possession of car-owners who paid good prices for them and a considerable sum of money has undoubtedly lined many a private pocket. It is doubtful that many good and prestigious numbers are still available today to realize good money to enhance charity. I therefore hope that details of arrangements for the sale of whatever "good" numbers are still left and for the not so good future ones by auctions will be finalized without further waste of time.
Sir, I support the bill.
DR CHUNG: —Your Excellency, when this bill was introduced in this Council two weeks ago my honourable Friend the Financial Secretary said that there was a small batch of registration numbers which had hitherto been reserved for honourable Members of the Legislative Council and Executive Council. I think this statement, as my honourable Friend Mr SZETO has said, is rather misleading. It could be true in the early years, though I don't know how early they are, that a batch of "good" registration numbers has been reserved for honourable Members of this Council and of the Executive Council, but this practice does no longer exist at least since my association with this Council firstly as a provisional Member in 1965 and subsequently as a substantive Member in 1968. Many of my honourable colleagues, like Mr SZETO and myself, and many others, do not possess such “good”, or even not so good, numbers for their cars.
Lest honourable Members misunderstand my intentions I here hasten to say that no such reservation of "good" numbers should be
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL—19th July 1972. 931
made for honourable Members of these two Councils and, for that matter, members of Government and other bodies.
Sir, there are certain misconceptions which are being held by some members of the general public with regard to honourable Members' privileges on road traffic. With your permission, Sir, I would like to take this opportunity to dispel these misconceptions. Some people believe that a car with a "Umelco" badge is either exempted from the Road Traffic Ordinance or granted certain priorities and privileges. This belief, I must point out, is completely false and rightly so. There were instances in which honourable Members were fined, many of them personally in Court, not only for driving in excess of a speed limit but also for minor parking offences. I am sure that I am voicing the feelings of my honourable colleagues when I say that we are here in this Chamber to serve the public and help make Hong Kong a better place to live in but not to seek favours or privileges.
Some time ago there was a letter published in an English newspaper complaining against one honourable Member. The writer of the letter stated that a motor car with a "Umelco" badge carrying a few beautiful ladies was given priority by the authority of the Yaumati Ferry Company in using a vehicular ferry. He questioned the need to give priority to those ladies who apparently were not engaged in any official business or errand. Although I was not involved in this instance, I can say with some certainty from my own experience even on official business that the priority given to that particular car was not because it carried a "Umelco" badge.
With the opening of the cross harbour tunnel within the next week or so, there will be hopefully less congestion on the vehicular ferries. However, I believe many people would still like to know whether Government has any policy in governing priority for using the vehicular ferries.
Coming to the amending bill itself, clause 3 states that a special registration mark would be assigned or allocated at the discretion of the Commissioner for Transport, or allocated and sold by auction, tender, or at a special fee not exceeding one thousand dollars. This clause, as it now stands, is not very clear. Will my honourable Friend the Financial Secretary clarify under what circumstances such a special fee, not exceeding one thousand dollars, would apply to the allocation and sale of special registration marks?
With these remarks, Sir, I support the motion.
THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY (MR HADDON-CAVE): —Sir, I am very grateful to my honourable Friends for their support of this bill. But I really must respond to several of the points they have made.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL—19th July 1972. 932
[THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY] Road Traffic (Amendment) Bill— resumption of debate on second reading
(5.7.72)
My honourable Friend Mr SZETO Wai complained that some time has elapsed since the Transport Advisory Committee recommended the sale of "good" or propitious registration numbers in November 1969. I can assure my honourable Friend that this has not, as he put it, "regrettably robbed charity of a very substantial sum". In actual fact, since November 1969, pending the introduction of legislation to provide for the sale of propitious car numbers, the Commissioner for Transport has issued no further registration numbers which would qualify for inclusion in the list of "good" or propitious numbers. By now over 3,000 "good" numbers are in reserve, and they will be put up for auction in suitable batches at carefully pre-determined intervals. We do not wish to spoil the market. (Laughter).
My honourable Friend Dr S. Y. CHUNG asked whether the Government has any policy regarding priority travel on the vehicular ferries: the answer, Sir, is "No". The issue of priority passes is entirely within the gift of the ferry company concerned.
As regards my honourable Friend's point on clause 3 of the bill, it is not at present envisaged that any special registration number will be allocated and sold at a special fee. The Government's intention is to submit draft regulations to the Governor in Council providing that all special registration numbers shall be sold by auction, with two exceptions, first, of numbers prefixed by the letters AM, which will continue to be reserved for Government vehicles and, secondly, any "good" or propitious numbers which have already been issued, for the Government does not intend to require the holders to surrender, or to pay for them retrospectively, at a special fee. However, although sales by auction only are envisaged at present, there is advantage, we think, in providing for some flexibility in the enabling Ordinance, that is to say in providing for alternative arrangements should circumstances arise in the future making the use of such alternative arrangements desirable.
Finally, Sir, both my honourable Friends Dr CHUNG and Mr SZETO have challenged the accuracy of my statement, made in this Council two weeks ago, that a small batch of registration numbers had hitherto been reserved for honourable Members of the Legislative and Executive Councils. Let me hasten to clarify the statement that I made; I made it in the context of a description of the past established practice in the Transport Department in allocating registration numbers. Certain numbers have in fact been set aside and allocated in the past to honourable Members of the two Councils, although this practice has now ceased.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL—19th July 1972. 933
Question put and agreed to.
Bill read the second time.
Bill committed to a committee of the whole Council pursuant to Standing Order No 43(l).
PUBLIC HEALTH AND URBAN SERVICES (AMENDMENT) (NO 2) BILL 1972
Resumption of debate on second reading (5th July 1972)
Question again proposed.
MR WONG: —Sir, the Public Health and Urban Services (Amendment) (No 2) Bill 1972 is the legislative part of the "Keep Hong Kong Clean Campaign". As a member of that campaign committee and Chairman of the Finance and Budget Sub-Committee, I fully support this bill. We are spending a large sum of money on this campaign and making a tremendous effort in community involvement and we must not fail.
As some of us are aware, originally the Keep Hong Kong Clean Committee wanted strong legislation, which would be easy to enforce, relative to public cleansing and the prevention of litter. This would have been in the form of a minimum fine of $30, and a presumption clause which would make the occupier or shopkeeper outside of whose premises litter was found immediately liable to prosecution. This proposal did not receive the approval of the Legal Department which, in its wisdom, has reasserted the inviolability of individual justice. This is another instance of the trend in modem times in democratic countries when individual justice is considered paramount, and social justice must be made subservient to individual justice even though the object is to keep the city clean. But a reasonable compromise has been reached on these points and will shortly be referred to this Council in by-laws for ratification. Clause 3 of the bill now before honourable Members enables the Authority to serve a notice valid for a specified period, with no less than 24 hours grace within which to comply requiring the removal of refuse, filth and obnoxious or other matter and cleaning of the area in which it was found. The notice may be served on the owner of the refuse or on the person responsible for putting it there or on the occupier of the place where it is found. The person on whom the notice is served is guilty only if he fails to comply with the notice and the Authority may remove and dispose of the refuse or filth. The recipient of the notice on conviction may also be ordered by the court
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL—19th July 1972. 934
[MR WONG] Public Health and Urban Services (Amendment) (No 2) Bill— resumption of debate on second reading (5.7.72)
to pay the expenses incurred by the Authority in removing and destroying or disposing of the refuse, or in cleaning the area in which it is found.
While this gives a fair warning to the party involved, one could imagine the tediousness of the process as contrasted with the way litterbugs are dealt with in Singapore, which is a clean city.
I remember some years ago I inspected together with the then Director of Urban Services the sanitary, or rather insanitary, conditions in the back lane between Jaffe Road and Lockhart Road. Upon returning to my car, I found a lump of filth, the nature of which is beyond description, had landed on the top of my car. Inquiries failed to reveal from which floor the nuisance originated. Among many other reasons, this was one why I joined the Keep Hong Kong Clean Committee and prefer to see stronger legislation against litter.
A few weeks ago we passed the Public Health and Urban Services (Amendment) Ordinance 1972 covering canopies. I had a student who complained to me that he was sitting by the window one night burning the midnight oil for an examination. Suddenly an unknown quantity of filth fell from above, entered through the window and he literally had a mouthful of it. Canopies are protections for lower floor tenants against the selfish people living on upper floors. I would suggest that we give the canopy owners plenty of opportunity to clean them before we remove them and until the Keep Hong Kong Clean Campaign has achieved some success.
With these remarks I support the bill.
MR WILSON T. S. WANG: —Sir, I too am a Member of the Keep Hong Kong Clean Campaign and I regard it as a privilege. First, it is indeed very kind for the Urban Council to have invited me. Second, it is a campaign whose success is going to benefit every citizen including myself. It is therefore a privilege to be able to play my part. Today I am glad, therefore, to support this bill believing that it will help to tackle this very urgent problem that faces our community today. We cannot deny that Hong Kong's filthy condition has reached disgraceful proportions. To a visitor it must be almost unbelievable in the light of our achievements in other fields that we should not have been able to keep our city clean, a task that would appear relatively simple. It is undoubtedly the result of ingrained habits due to general indifference and to some extent to the leniency of the law. But whatever the cause may be, dirt is dirt and we must not continue to turn a blind eye to it. Tougher measures are obviously needed, so much so that there are
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL—19th July 1972. 935
some who would even consider that the legislation now proposed could be tougher. For indeed Hong Kong must be cleaned up and kept clean at all costs. Here, we have a battle to fight and win, and we cannot afford to lose.
The intention of the bill in essence is to make it clear that a person is expected not only to refrain from littering his premises but to see that other people do not litter them also. Hence, though it may seem rather hard to require a ground floor occupant to clear up the mess caused by his upstairs and next door neighbours, it should be understood that each occupant must accept his responsibility and use his initiative to appeal to the goodwill of his neighbours, and if they refuse to cooperate, he should—in his own interests and as a matter of civic duty—report the matter to the appropriate authorities and seek a solution. He will have only himself to blame should he be penalized for failing to see that his premises are not kept clean; for such can only be regarded as the result of his indifference, and it is this attitude of indifference that is the deadliest enemy in this battle we are fighting.
I would like to endorse the statement of my honourable Friend the Director of Urban Services that cleaning up Hong Kong is first of all a matter of enlisting the co-operation of the people of Hong Kong in understanding the problem and assisting them to overcome it. We all hope that the publicity "run-up", scheduled to begin in August, will leave no one with any doubt about the vital importance of the proper disposal of litter and of how they are expected to dispose of it. Here I cannot be the last to admit that schools can play a very important part, not only in terms of education but also as a spearhead of community involvement. Let it not be suggested, however, that schools have been neglectful in this respect, but it must be admitted that it is not easy for youngsters to respond keenly to what their teachers tell them if adults do not set a good example. Let us hope that grown-ups and children from now on will join forces in an all-front effort to clean up Hong Kong and keep it clean all the time.
Sir, I support the motion.
MR FORSGATE: —Sir, it is with the utmost diffidence that I take the opportunity afforded by my provisional appointment to this Council to follow my two honourable Friends in speaking in support of the Public Health and Urban Services (Amendment) (No 2) Bill.
There is no doubt, Sir, that as a community we have developed very dirty habits. The attitude in most cases, as so graphically described by my honourable Friend Mr Wilfred WONG, is one of supreme indifference to others.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL—19th July 1972. 936
[MR FORSGATE] Public Health and Urban Services (Amendment) (No 2) Bill—resumption of debate on second reading (5.7.72)
In our deliberations on the subject of indiscriminate discarding of litter, especially from above, in both the Urban Council and in the Keep Hong Kong Clean Campaign Committee, thought was given at one time to my suggestion that Hong Kong should compulsorily introduce the warning cry common in 18th Century Edinburgh of shouting "Gardy loo! " (Cantonese: Wai do laap saap ah (喂! 倒垃圾呀!)) before launching muck onto the street below. If such a practice was in vogue, then my honourable Friend Mr Wilfred WONG could have shouted "Haud your haund" or the Cantonese equivalent "Mai ju ah" (咪住呀!)
(laughter) and been given time to move his car.
It is now time for all the people of Hong Kong to give serious consideration to their environment. The exercise of self-control in the disposal of litter and rubbish is an important first step.
As Chairman of the Environmental Pollution Committee, I view this legislation as a vital part of the Keep Hong Kong Clean Campaign, which is itself a first step towards the control of pollution and improvement in the quality of our lives.
The carrots of education, improved Urban Services disposal facilities, publicity, etc., will be useless without the stick of enforcement, which we all sincerely hope this enabling bill with its subsequent by-laws and regulations, will provide.
The Urban Council is determined to make a success of this campaign, and is grateful for the wholehearted encouragement it is receiving from this Council.
With these remarks, Sir, I support the bill.
THE ATTORNEY GENERAL (ACTING) (MR G. R. SNEATH): —Might I speak briefly in this debate before my honourable Friend Mr RICHARDSON replies. I would like to respond to a remark by my honourable Friend Mr Wilfred WONG about the reassertion of things by the Legal Department. I am glad of the opportunity to speak because when this matter was going through the drafting stages there was in public, Sir, a certain amount of criticism of members of my Department and there was implicit, I think, in that criticism something that stung a bit, namely that members of my Department were indifferent to this campaign. I would like to assure honourable Members that that is not so. Both I and, I am sure, all members of my Department wish this campaign every success.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL—19th July 1972. 937
It is not a mere technicality when I say that my Department didn't determine anything. As people who help draft the law we advise and we advise only; what weight that advice carries is a matter for those who harken to our advice and accept it or reject it. I hope my honourable Friend will accept that.
Question put and agreed to.
Bill read the second time.
Bill committed to a committee of the whole Council pursuant to Standing Order No 43(l).
Committee stage
Council went into Committee.
ROAD TRAFFIC (AMENDMENT) BILL 1972
Clauses 1 to 5 were agreed to.
PUBLIC HEALTH AND URBAN SERVICES (AMENDMENT) (NO 2) BILL 1972
Clauses 1 to 10 were agreed to.
NURSES REGISTRATION (AMENDMENT) BILL 1972
Clauses 1 to 4 were agreed to.
Council then resumed.
Third reading
THE ATTORNEY GENERAL (ACTING) (MR SNEATH) reported that the Road Traffic (Amendment) Bill 1972
Public Health and Urban Services (Amendment) (No 2) Bill 1972 Nurses Registration (Amendment) Bill 1972
had passed through Committee without amendment and moved the third reading of each of the bills.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL—19th July 1972. 938
Question put on each bill and agreed to.
Bills read the third time and passed.
Adjournment and next sitting
HIS EXCELLENCY THE PRESIDENT: —In accordance with Standing Orders I now adjourn the Council until 2.30 p.m. on Wednesday 2nd August.
Adjourned accordingly at eight minutes to four o'clock.
PRINTED BY THE GOVERNMENT PRINTER, HONG KONG
No comments yet.
Private notes are available after approval.