1964-08-19 — Page 1

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL 291

OFFICIAL REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS

Meeting of 19th August 1964

PRESENT:

HIS EXCELLENCY TRE GOVERNOR (PRESIDENT)

SIR DAVID CLIVE CROSBIE TRENCH, KCMG, MC

HIS EXCELLENCY LIEUTENANT-GENERAL SIR DENIS STUART SCOTT O'CONNOR, KBE, CB

COMMANDER BRITISH FORCES

THE HONOURABLE EDMUND BRINSLEY TEESDALE, CMG, MC

COLONIAL SECRETARY

THE HONOURABLE MAURICE HEENAN, QC

ATTORNEY GENERAL

THE HONOURABLE PATRICK CARDINALL MASON SEDGWICK

ACTING SECRETARY FOR CHINESE AFFAIRS AND COMMISSIONER OF LABOUR THE HONOURABLE JOHN JAMES COWPERTHWAITE, CMG, OBE FINANCIAL SECRETARY

THE HONOURABLE KENNETH STRATHMORE KINGHORN

DIRECTOR OF URBAN SERVICES

DR THE HONOURABLE TENG PIN-HUI, OBE

DIRECTOR OF MEDICAL AND HEALTH SERVICES

THE HONOURABLE JAMES JEAVONS ROBSON

ACTING DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS

THE HONOURABLE DAVID RONALD HOLMES, CBE, MC, ED

DIRECTOR OF COMMERCE AND INDUSTRY

THE HONOURABLE JAMES TINKER WAKEFIELD

DISTRICT COMMISSIONER, NEW TERRITORIES

THE HONOURABLE KENNETH JOHN ATTWELL

ACTING DIRECTOR OF EDUCATION

THE HONOURABLE DHUN JEHANGIR RUTTONJEE, CBE

THE HONOURABLE FUNG PING-FAN, OBE

THE HONOURABLE RICHARD CHARLES LEE, CBE

THE HONOURABLE KWAN CHO-YIU, OBE

THE HONOURABLE KAN YUET-KEUNG, OBE

THE HONOURABLE FUNG HON-CHU

THE HONOURABLE TANG PING-YUAN

THE HONOURABLE TSE YU-CHUEN, OBE

THE HONOURABLE KENNETH ALBERT WATSON, OBE

THE HONOURABLE WOO PAK-CHUEN, OBE

THE HONOURABLE GEORGE RONALD ROSS

THE HONOURABLE JAMBS DICKSON LEACH, OBE

THE HONOURABLE SZETO WAI

MR ANDREW MCDONALD CHAPMAN (Deputy Clerk of Councils)

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL 292

MINUTES

The minutes of the meeting of the Council held on 5th August 1964, were confirmed.

OATHS

MESSRS K. J. ATTWELL AND SZETO WAI took the Oath of Allegiance and assumed their seats as Members of the Council.

PAPERS

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY, by Command of His Excellency the Governor, laid upon the table the following papers: —

Subject LN No

Sessional Paper, 1964: —

No 28—Annual Report by the Government Printer for

the year 1962-63.

Registration of Persons Ordinance, 1960.

Registration of Persons (Cancellation of Registration and

Identity Cards) (No 12) Order, 1964 ................................... 118

Registration of Persons Ordinance, 1960.

Registration of Persons (Re-registration) (No 28) Order, 1964 119

Registration of Persons Ordinance, 1960.

Registration of Persons (Cancellation of Registration and

Identity Cards) (No 13) Order, 1964 ................................... 120

QUESTIONS

MR KAN YUET-KEUNG, pursuant to notice, asked the following question: —

Sir, in view of the public concern over the long delay in the enactment of the Banking Ordinance will Government make strong and urgent representation to the Secretary of State that public interest in Hong Kong demands that the enactment of the Banking Ordinance should not be further delayed?

THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY replied as follows: —

Sir, I am glad to be able to report that intimation of Her Majesty's Government's approval of the revised Banking Bill was received at the end of last week. It is conditional

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL 293

on acceptance of one amendment which will not, I think, cause us any difficulty. The revised Bill has not yet had the blessing of Executive Council and this remains to be secured before it can be presented to this Council.

MR WOO PAK-CHUEN, pursuant to notice, asked the following questions: —

Sir, since taxis in Kowloon are now licensed to carry four or more passengers as those in Hong Kong, and since the population of Kowloon is greater than that of Hong Kong—

(a) What justification is there that the fares in Kowloon should be lower than those in Hong Kong?

(b) Why are there no more taxis in Kowloon than in Hong Kong? and

(c) As it is desirable that there should be uniformity in fares, would Government consider the reduction of fares in Hong Kong to the same as those in Kowloon and the authorization of more taxis in Kowloon?

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY replied as follows: —

Sir, the present taxi fares are maximum fares introduced shortly after the war. The difference between fares in Hong Kong and fares in Kowloon was designed to take account of the need for larger and more powerful cars on the generally steeper roads of the Island.

As honourable Members are probably aware, a number of questions relating to taxis has recently been under consideration by the Advisory Committee on Public Transport. The Committee takes the view that, while the fare differential may not longer be justified, it is more important to increase the number of taxis so that with more competition the operators themselves may be inclined to reduce fares below the maximum rates. In recommending an increase in the number of licences to be issued the Committee has also proposed a greater number of additional taxis for Kowloon than for Hong Kong. These recommendations have only just been received and until they have been studied I cannot say what decision will be taken.

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL 294

MR K. A. WATSON, pursuant to notice, asked the following questions: —

Sir, it has been confidently asserted that there is, at present, more filth in the harbour, in the surrounding waters, and at our beaches than ever before.

In view of this, what specific measures are being taken to improve these conditions by the Urban Services Department, the Public Works Department, and the Marine Department?

Is Government satisfied that these measures axe adequate and are being pursued with sufficient vigour?

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY replied as follows: —

Sir, refuse in the harbour and on or near the beaches is due to some extent to illegal dumping from boats and from the shore, but there seems to be little doubt that the recent deterioration to which my honourable Friend refers is due principally to damage at Gin Drinker's Bay Refuse Dump during the past few months.

Part of the dump collapsed in April and floating refuse escaped through the gap in the log boom through which refuse barges have access to the dump. Then, during recent typhoons, large amounts of rubbish were lifted over the boom, as well as through gaps broken in the boom by high seas, and drifted into open water.

Everything possible is being done by the Public Works Department to seal off the dump permanently. About 1,100 feet of a rock and earth bund on the east side remains to be built and it is unlikely that this work can be completed much before November. In the meantime the immediate objective is to close the log boom as soon as possible. This will occur in a few days time when temporary berths for the unloading of refuse barges will be available against the west wall of the dump, pending completion of permanent unloading berths on the eastern bund to which I have just referred. These latter berths were, in fact, nearing completion when on the 8th August they suffered damage from typhoon Ida which will take five weeks to repair.

In the meantime, the Director of Marine is doing all he can to reduce the amount of floating refuse in the harbour. Eight sampans are in use at power station intakes, piers and at other points where refuse is particularly prone to accumulate; a specially designed catamaran is now operating a sweep which can clear a 60 ft. channel; and a sweep towed

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL 295

between two launches is also being used at Gin Drinker's Bay. Among other measures to be employed are a seine-type surface sweep and a larger vessel into which sampans can discharge refuse thus saving time on journeys to distant collection points.

The Director of Marine will continue to see in what way these operations can be improved or intensified, but the fact has to be faced, I think, that, until the dump at Gin Drinker’s Bay has been completely and effectively sealed, these measures cannot be expected to achieve any really substantial reduction in the present amount of harbour refuse, although they will certainly improve the situation to some extent.

As to the beaches, the Director of Urban Services is using extra staff to clean them up and to intercept floating refuse in the shallows by the use of hand nets and with larger nets operated in conjunction with three motorized beach catamarans. Staff in the urban areas have been instructed to exercise particular vigilance in the prevention of illegal dumping on the waterfront and from the congested and unformed foreshores occupied by temporary industries, but detection is exceptionally difficult when, as often happens, dumping takes place at night.

SUPPLEMENTARY PROVISIONS FOR THE QUARTER ENDED 30TH JUNE, 1964

THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY moved the following resolution: —

Resolved that the Supplementary Provisions for the Quarter ended 30th June 1964, as set out in Schedule No 1 of 1964-65, be approved.

He said: Sir, the Schedule before Council is the first list of supplementary provisions on 1964-65 account. The toal supplementary vote amounts to just under $24 million.

The main single item is the sum of approximately $10½ million for the Services Building Programme, about which my honourable Friend, the Colonial Secretary, will speak when he seconds the motion.

Public Works Non-recurrent items account for a total of $10 million, notable items under this Head being $2.2 million for work in connexion with East River—Sham Chun Water Scheme and an additional $1.4 million for the Lion Rock Tunnel. The total estimate for the latter is now $11.4 million.

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL 296

All the items in the Schedule have been approved by Finance Committee and the covering approval of this Council is now sought.

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY: —Sir, I beg to second the Resolution and, in so doing, to make special reference to the item for $10.64 million on page 4 of the schedule of supplementary provisions before honourable Members under the Heading "Defence: Services Building Programme."

At the request of Her Majesty’s Government the Hong Kong Government has for some time been considering whether and in what way it could make some additional contribution to the cost of the garrison stationed in Hong Kong.

Total British defence expenditure is now approaching £ 2,000M a year and about a quarter of this is spent overseas. Since 1950-51 Hong Kong has made an annual contribution to this cost, originally at the rate of £ 1 million a year and since 1958 at £ 1½ million a year. The total cost of maintaining the forces here has continued to increase since 1958 and is now over £ 15 million a year. Of this some £ 10 million is spent in the Colony, thereby indirectly benefiting the economy to a substantial extent.

Although it faces in the coming years a heavy and steadily increasing bill for the expansion of housing, education and medical and other social services, the Hong Kong Government has nevertheless concluded that it should, if possible, undertake an additional share of the rising defence costs of the Colony. It has, therefore, given Her Majesty’s Government's request anxious and careful consideration and has come to the conclusion that the most useful and practical way in which it could help would be to contribute to the costs of the Army and R.A.F. building programme in Hong Kong.

While continuing, therefore, to make its annual contribution of £ 1½M direct to the British Treasury, the Hong Kong Government has offered to help finance this programme up to a maximum of six million pounds over the next six years. This offer has been accepted by Her Majesty's Government, and the Secretary of State for the Colonies has asked Your Excellency if a message conveying the thanks and appreciation of the Secretary of State for Defence and of the Defence Council could be expressed at this meeting of the Legislative Council.

All this money will be spent in Hong Kong, although, of course, a proportion will go to pay for imported materials, and the resulting buildings will constitute a permanent asset to the Colony. The programme involves the replacement of temporary hutted camps and quarters, of obsolete barracks, depots, offices, etc., and the building of a new Military Hospital. Many of these buildings were put on a temporary basis shortly after the war and are long overdue for replacement or improvement.

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL 297

The Services will have a permanent right to use the new buildings for defence purposes, but they will, if at any time no longer required by the Services, revert to the Hong Kong Government without compensation.

MR DHUN J. RUTTONJEE: —Your Excellency, it is with great pleasure that I move to support the Resolution put by the Honourable Financial Secretary and seconded by the Honourable Colonial Secretary.

Unlike most colonies, we are self-supporting and have never had to seek direct aid. This is a fact of which I am proud and I am sure this feeling is common to all of us in Hong Kong. We live by our industry and the only reward we seek is that we be allowed to trade unhindered and to export our products freely. But we cannot achieve these ideals unless we ensure that the atmosphere in which we live and work is conducive to a spirit of free enterprise. In this respect, the prime requisite is law and order and however pressing the needs of our social services, the maintenance of law and order must always be our first concern.

The price we have paid in the past as our contribution towards the upkeep of the garrison has been negligible and is only a fraction of the total cost to Her Majesty's Government. While an additional £ 1 million per annum for six years may seem, on the face of it, substantial, it is not in effect entirely without benefit to ourselves. As my honourable Friend has said, the buildings to be financed with this contribution will revert to Government without compensation if at any time the services no longer require them. I also understand that until certain Army building plans can be financed and construction commenced, the handing back of land to Government is being delayed. This land we shall be able to sell or put to our social use. Our contribution is not, therefore, as entirely selfless or burdensome as it may seem at first sight.

Peace in this world can only be maintained by vigilance and preparedness. It is right and proper that even at some sacrifice of the many pressing needs we have, we should make a reasonable contribution from our own resources towards the staggering burden of defence expenditure necessary to insure peace; a burden now approaching some £ 2 thousand million a year, and borne entirely by the British tax-payer. We are, after all, a direct beneficiary and the means chosen for our contribution will be, fittingly, of direct benefit to those servicemen who come here to insure our well being.

MR R. C. LEE: —Your Excellency, in supporting the Resolution I should like to say a few words regarding the item of $10.64 million to which special reference has been made by the Honourable the Colonial Secretary.

Hong Kong has often been criticized for a seeming failure to assume a more adequate share of the cost of stationing the garrison

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL 298

here. What we now propose to do will demonstrate to our critics that we are shouldering an important share of the responsibility. I believe I am correct in saying that our balance of payments with the United Kingdom is always in her favour. The exact position as to the balance of payments that is in the United Kingdom's favour over the past 10 years is not easily ascertainable, but, in the matter of purchases alone, I do know that the sum spent by Hong Kong in the United Kingdom amounts to $6,610.72 million during the last 10 years. Thus the additional contribution that we are going to make must further strengthen her position in that respect.

The manner in which it is now proposed to make the additional contribution is set out in the Supplementary Provisions and is to be preferred to the former method of making contributions in cash. Instead of sending a remittance to the British Treasury, the money will be expended to carry out a building programme here in Hong Kong. In this connexion, it is estimated that roughly 40% of the money will go towards the payment of local labour.

I suggest that the authority concerned with the construction programme should design the buildings in such a way as to be capable of being easily converted to civilian use such as colleges, lecture rooms, libraries and offices, in order that these buildings will remain useful assets when they eventually revert to Government. For large areas such as Shek Kong a master plan should be drawn up with the advice of experts before any construction is started.

The position of balance of payments and the shouldering of financial responsibility are always vexed questions. Much can be said on either side and the fair approach is, in my opinion, one of give and take. I am convinced that the manner we have now resolved this question is reasonable and practical in the circumstances.

The question was put and agreed to.

SUPPLEMENTARY APPROPRIATION (1963-64) BILL, 1964

THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY moved the First reading of a Bill intituled "An Ordinance to authorize a supplementary appropriation to defray the charges of the financial year ended the 31st day of March, 1964."

He said: Sir, this Bill seeks to give final legislative authority, so far as that is necessary, for the supplementary expenditure already authorized by Resolution of this Council, and is the final stage in disposing of expenditure incurred during the last financial year.

When I moved the fifth and final Resolution on this subject on 22nd July I said that the total of supplementary provisions for the year

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL 299

was $184.9 million but that, because of under-spending on a number of votes, total expenditure was in fact some $65 million below the original estimates.

These original estimates were given legislative form in the Appropriation (1963-64) Ordinance, 1963, which authorized them by separate Heads of Expenditure. It is necessary to legislate further now in respect of those individual Heads of Expenditure where the net effect of supplementary provision, and under-spending if any, has resulted in an excess over the original sum authorized against these particular Heads in the Appropriation Ordinance. The total supplementary expenditure requiring this further legislative authority is some $12 million under six Heads.

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded.

The question was put and agreed to.

The Bill was read a First time.

DANGEROUS GOODS (AMENDMENT) (NO 2) BILL, 1964

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL moved the Second reading of a Bill intituled "An Ordinance further to amend the Dangerous Goods Ordinance, 1956."

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded.

The question was put and agreed to.

The Bill was read a Second time.

Council then went into Committee to consider the Bill clause by clause. Clauses 1 and 2 were agreed to.

Council then resumed.

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL reported that the Bill before Council had passed through Committee without amendment and moved the Third reading.

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded.

The question was put and agreed to.

The Bill was read a Third time and passed into jaw.

CHINESE ANGLICAN CHURCH BODY INCORPORATION (AMENDMENT) BILL, 1964

MR R. C. LEE moved the Second reading of a Bill intituled “An Ordinance to amend the Chinese Anglican Church Body Incorporation Ordinance.”

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL 300

MR C. Y. KWAN seconded.

The question was put and agreed to.

The Bill was read a Second time.

Council then went into Committee to consider the Bill clause by clause. Clauses 1 and 2 were agreed to.

Council then resumed.

MR R. C. LEE reported that the Bill before Council had passed through Committee without amendment and moved the Third reading.

MR C. Y. KWAN seconded.

The question was put and agreed to.

The Bill was read a Third time and passed into law.

ADJOURNMENT

HIS EXCELLENCY THE GOVERNOR: —That concludes the business for today, gentlemen. When is it your pleasure that we should meet again?

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL: —May I suggest this day fortnight, Sir.

HIS EXCELLENCY THE GOVERNOR: —Council stands adjourned until this day fortnight

PRINTED BY THE GOVERNMENT PRINTER, HONG KONG