1930-10-16 — Page 1

180 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

16th October, 1930.

PRESENT:―

HIS EXCELLENCY THE GOVERNOR (SIR WILLIAM PEEL, K.B.E., C.M.G.).

HIS EXCELLENCY THE GENERAL OFFICER COMMANDING THE TROOPS (MAJOR-GENERAL J. W. SANDILANDS, C.B., C.M.G., D.S.O.).

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY (HON. MR. E. R. HALLIFAX, C.M.G., C.B.E.). THE ATTORNEY GENERAL (HON. MR. C. G. ALABASTER, K.C., O.B.E.).

THE SECRETARY FOR CHINESE AFFAIRS (HON. MR. A. E. WOOD).

THE COLONIAL TREASURER (HON. MR. C. MCI. MESSER, O.B.E.).

HON. MR. H. T. CREASY, C.B.E. (Director of Public Works).

HON. MR. E. D. C. WOLFE, C.MG. (Inspector General of Police).

HON. COMMANDER G. F. HOLE, R.N. (Retired) (Harbour Master).

HON. DR. A. R. WELLINGTON (Director of Medical and Sanitary Services). HON. SIR SHOU-SON CHOW, KT.

HON. MR. J. OWEN HUGHES.

HON. MR. C. G. S. MACKIE.

HON. MR. R. H. KOTEWALL, C.M.G., LL.D.

HON. MR. J. P. BRAGA.

HON. MR. S. W. TS'O, O.B.E., LL.D.

HON. MR. J. J. PATERSON.

HON. MR. PAUL LAUDER.

MR. E. W. HAMILTON (Deputy Clerk of Councils).

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MINUTES.

The minutes of the previous meeting of the Council were confirmed.

PAPERS.

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY, by command of H.E. the Governor, laid on the table the following papers:―

By-law under section 16 of the Public Health and Buildings Ordinance, 1903, on 2nd October, 1930.

Regulations under section 3 (1) of the Wireless Telegraphy Ordinance, 1926, on 4th October, 1930.

Regulation under section 3 of the Post Office Ordinance, 1926, on 3rd October, 1930. Regulation under section 3 of the Post Office Ordinance, 1926, on 6th October, 1930. Rescission of the Order declaring Iloilo to be an infected place.

Rescission of the Order declaring Manila to be an infected place.

Nomination under the University Ordinance, 1911.

FINANCE COMMITTEE'S REPORT.

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY, by command of H.E. the Governor, laid upon the table the report of the Finance Committee, No. 13, of 2nd October, 1930, and moved that it be adopted.

THE COLONIAL TREASURER seconded and this was agreed to.

CROWN LANDS RESUMPTION AMENDMENT ORDINANCE, 1930.

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL.―It has been decided not to proceed to-day with the first reading of the Bill to amend the Crown Lands Resumption Ordinance, 1900.

GAMBLING ORDINANCE AMENDMENT, 1930.

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL.―Sir, I rise to move the second reading of a Bill to amend the Gambling Ordinance, 1891. That Ordinance has happily proved sufficient to prevent the organization in the Colony of lotteries generally; but in so far as its provisions prohibited sweepstakes on horse and pony races it appears to have

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been in advance of public opinion with the result that it has been generally ignored.

As long as such sweepstakes were small affairs voluntarily restricted to groups of members of clubs they afforded amusement to the participants and though illegal by statute they did not lend themselves to grave abuse. The growth of these sweepstakes, carrying with it the unrestricted sale of tickets, has led to abuses in recent years rendering action of some kind necessary. Some of the promoters of these sweepstakes appear to have forgotten the existence of the Gambling Ordinance, others have thought apparently that police permission over-rode the provisions of the law. On more than one occasion individual members of a society have approached the police for permission to break the law on the plea that part of the receipts would be devoted to charity. In one case a social institution applied to the police for permission to run a sweep in order to raise money for the upkeep of its premises on the plea that subscriptions from members were not sufficient to meet expenses.

The total at stake and potential prizes in many of these sweeps have grown to hundreds of thousands of dollars. This result has only been attained by advertising and the development and organization of the sale of tickets which have been found a public market extending far beyond the limits of the Colony. This systematic sale has been fostered by the employment of shops and brokers for the sale of such tickets on commission. In February, 1930, the Police found on sale in one place of general business tickets for sweepstakes organised by three separate Institutions. A few doors away they found a notice displayed to public view announcing that tickets for another sweepstakes could be obtained.

There have been cases within the knowledge of most of us where tickets have been bought up in blocks by enterprising salesmen and offered at a premium when no further tickets could be obtained from the organizers; or where the ordinary sale of a ticket has led to rival claims of ownership and charges of trickery when that ticket won; or again where a club has netted an enormous sum through the fact that no one has come forward as owner of the ticket bearing the winning number, leading to suggestions and innuendoes with regard to the drawing of the numbers. It will be seen that it is in connexion with the growth of the amounts involved and in the sale of tickets rather than with other features of the sweeps that abuses have arisen.

These abuses, I need hardly add, are not of local character but have shewn themselves in other places where such sweepstakes obtain. The abuses are being dealt with elsewhere much on the lines that it is proposed to adopt in dealing with them here, that is to say, by restricting as far as possible the participants in club sweeps to club members by the abolition of tickets generally.

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An exception is made in the case of sale of tickets on the course to persons attending a race meeting because it is felt that such persons, though not necessarily members of the club organising the race in connexion with which the sweep is held, are at any rate lending it their support by their presence and are accorded its privileges by admission to its enclosures. It is felt that this limited sale of tickets will not be open to the abuses which have shown themselves where an unrestricted though illegal sale has been tolerated. As to the illegality of what has been done in the past, I should point out that under the principal Ordinance every person who buys a lottery ticket is liable to a fine of twenty-five dollars and every person who sells one or has one in his possession with a view to sale, is liable to a fine of forty times that amount. I move that the Bill be read a second time.

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded.

THE HON. MR. R. H. KOTEWALL.―Sir, the decision of the Government to give legal sanction to Club sweepstakes conducted on horse and pony races, but at the same time to subject such sanction to certain limitations, is a decision which has met with the approval of a very large majority of the people. There is, however, one sub-section in the Bill now before this Council, which has given rise to much concern in the minds of many. It is section 18 (1) (b) which says that "except in the case of pari-mutuel or cash-sweep tickets sold by the club organising the race on the premises of the race course during the meeting at which the race takes place to persons attending such meeting, no tickets shall be sold."

Numerous representations have been made to my Honourable Chinese colleagues and myself by social and sporting clubs which have for years been running sweepstakes in connexion with the annual Races, pointing out that the proposed sub-section would in effect prevent them from conducting a successful sweepstake at all. It has also been pointed out that the sub-section gives undue advantage to the Jockey Club, which has so far been the only club that has organised horse and pony races. It is admitted by those directly concerned that some preferential treatment is due to that club, as it has to spend large sums of money in organising the races and in the upkeep of the race-course; but on the other hand our attention has been drawn to the fact that this Club already enjoys the advantage of being allowed by the Police to charge a commission of 20% on the tickets sold, against the 10% permitted to the other clubs, and that, in addition, it is the only organisation that conducts the pari-mutuel and cash sweepstakes at the Extra Race Meetings. The membership of the Jockey Club being necessarily limited, any special advantage accorded to it by law would be enjoyed by only a comparatively small number of people who happen to be members of the Club. It may be stated that my Chinese colleagues and I are members.

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The honourable and learned Attorney General, when introducing the Bill at the last meeting of this Council, stated that there had been many instances in this Colony and elsewhere of rival claimants to a winning ticket, and that there had been one case at least in which there had been no claimant to the winning ticket, so that the club got the benefit of both its percentage and the money which should otherwise have been distributed to the subscribers. I cannot see how a system requiring members or subscribers of the club conducting the sweepstakes to sign their names to numbers on lists would minimise disputes; on the contrary, such a system would seem more easily to lend itself to troubles, unless there be no transfer of title in the chance, which, human nature being what it is, no law can ensure.

Certain public institutions which have been conducting sweepstakes have put forward the argument, as a reason for the retention of the ticket system, that a large portion of the proceeds of the sale of the tickets has in the past been devoted to charity. We must confess that this reasoning has little weight with us. It appears to us that the whole point is whether the system of tickets is wrong or not. If it is, it should be abolished altogether without any exception; otherwise the Government would, with the aid of law, perpetuate what is, in its view, wrong. If, on the other hand, it is not wrong, then it would be difficult for the Government to justify the differentiation. The best Chinese opinion which we have consulted considers that tickets should be allowed, subject to control by the Police in regard to the percentage of commission to be charged, the maximum amount of a sweepstake to be allowed, and hawking of tickets.

In the circumstance my Chinese colleagues and I suggest that section 18 (1) (b) be deleted, and that some additional words be inserted to make it clear that the Inspector-General of Police has the power (subject to appeal to the Governor-in-Council) to fix a limit to the amount of a sweepstake so as to prevent it from assuming undesirable proportions, and generally to impose conditions designed for the purpose of preventing abuses in the sale of tickets. I will, accordingly, when the Bill is in Committee, move the deletion and amendment.

THE HON. MR. S. W. TS'O.―Sir,―I beg to support the suggestion of my Chinese colleague the Hon. Dr. Kotewall for the deletion of Section 18 (1) (b) in the Bill before the Council; and in lieu thereof, the insertion of a clause empowering the Inspector General of Police (subject to appeal to the Governor-in-Council) to fix a limit to the amount of a sweepstake and to impose conditions for the purpose of preventing abuses in the sale of tickets. I quite agree, and I believe it is the general opinion among the Chinese that of the two systems of carrying out a sweepstake, namely, the issuing of tickets or the signing by members or subscribers of the club of their names to numbers on list, the latter system would

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involve more trouble and even lend itself more easily to abuses. Since sweepstakes are to be sanctioned by law, the method by which the sweepstake is to be carried out is immaterial, provided safeguards such as those mentioned by my hon. colleague be inserted in the Bill. For these reasons I beg to support the suggestion of deleting Section 8 (1) (b) in the Bill, and of adding a sub-section to provide the safeguards mentioned.

THE HON. MR. J. P. BRAGA.―Your Excellency,―I have pleasure in supporting the speeches of the honourable Chinese members on the suggested amendment of the Bill. In doing so, I have a few remarks to address to the Council so as to make my position clear as regards the Hong Kong Jockey Club, to which reference was made by my honourable Chinese friends. My reference will be made later.

As regards rece-sweeps, it is a matter of common knowledge that in the Colony, as elsewhere, for a number of years the privilege had been granted to a limited number of recognised clubs and associations of standing, of running cash sweeps in connexion with pony racing in Hong Kong, under well-defined restrictions and limitations very properly and adequately imposed by the Police Department.

As far as I am aware, there has never been any flagrant case of a breach of this special privilege. This happy state of things is explainable. The fact is in almost every case the committees of these associations are mixed and composed of both older and younger members of the respective societies on whom the self-imposed duty has been observed to zealously comply with the Police regulations. Moreover, it has been in the interests of such associations to maintain the honesty and integrity of their clubs, and the few race lotteries are invariably conducted without reproach. But for this scrupulous regard for honest dealing, these race lotteries could never have enjoyed the public confidence which, I think, the association can claim for them.

In no case do the proceeds of the lotteries find their way into the pockets of individual members. They are allocated for the maintenance and upkeep of the social and recreative sides of the club's activities. The majority of the members are men of small means. They are clerks and others of their class for whom club subscription fees must be kept down to a minimum. But for the occasional addition of revenue derived from the commission out of cash sweeps, the Club committees would be sorely put to it to find the means for ordinary recurring expenditure. Will anyone be found denying to the community the means of sustaining irreproachable clubs in Hong Kong? I cannot imagine of any in this Council who would do so.

Now as regards the Hong Kong Jockey Club, nobody will deny the fact that the Jockey Club is an organisation that has been most

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efficiently and successfully conducted in the interest of sport throughout the Colony. It provides much enjoyment for thousands of people of all nationalities within the beautiful valley which Hong Kong claims as its own "Happy Valley." The Stewards of the Club are all gentlemen of influence and commanding positions and thoroughly imbued with a sporting spirit which will not deny to the lesser associations and societies of Hong Kong the one opportunity open to them to secure the wherewithal in order to maintain the social and recreative sides of their activities. There can be no dog-in-the-manger policy with the Jockey Club and I should be very much surprised if its Stewards are not in whole-hearted agreement with the proposed amendment. On the part of the Government I trust, after hearing the humble submissions in favour of the amendment, Your Excellency might be pleased to concur therein.

H.E. THE GOVERNOR.―I must congratulate my Hon. friend Mr. Braga on having been fortunate enough to have come into contact only with the clean and ideal side of these lotteries. Were things exactly as he has stated I doubt very much whether the Government would have had to take any action at all. Unfortunately, the Inspector General of Police, in the course of his duties, has come into contact with the other side of the picture, and I think the statements made in the speech of the Attorney General clearly show that there are abuses, as the result of this system, and whether we ought to allow lotteries at all is a matter upon which I confess to have some doubt, but there is no question that they cannot be allowed to go on under the present system.

I think the principal point has been missed. It is not that we think that tickets in themselves, or the issuing of tickets in themselves, should be made illegal; it is that the abuses which arise from the sale of these tickets are abuses which cannot adequately be dealt with. It is very easy to say that this system might be legalised, subject to a system of police control, but I defy anyone to devise a system which would enable the Inspector General of Police to cure the abuses to which the Attorney General has referred in his speech. That is not within the bounds of practical politics and, therefore, the Government is compelled to make certain restrictions which will, at any rate, minimise the abuses which have existed in the past.

There is no intention of giving any special privilege to the Jockey Club, a point upon which, I think, there is some misunderstanding. The fact that they are allowed to sell tickets on the Race Course on the day of the races is a matter which the police feel they can deal with. It does not lend itself to abuse in the same way as tickets issued by clubs who sell, very often, apparently under a commission arrangement, anywhere and everywhere in the Colony to all sorts of people, high and low. The same trouble existed in Malaya. Coolies of the lowest class could buy tickets and it had to be put a stop to. There, the Turf Clubs themselves

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volunteered to restrict the sale of tickets to their own premises on the same lines as we are laying down here; that is, that tickets are not to be sold except on the Race Course. That will undoubtedly minimise many of the abuses which exist and it is, I say definitely, merely with a view of reducing the abuses which undoubtedly exist, on definite evidence received from the Police, that the Government feels compelled to introduce this measure.

The Bill was read a second time.

Council went into Committee to consider the Bill clause by clause.

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL.―There is a mis-print in the sixth line of paragraph (b) of the new section 18. The letter "m" is a piece of bad type and I move that it be corrected.

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded and the correction was agreed to.

THE HON. MR. KOTEWALL.―I beg to propose the deletion of section 18 (1) (b). Your Excellency has just stated that abuses have happened in the past and that the present system cannot be allowed to go on. I am quite sure that my Chinese colleagues also agree that the present system is not the best, and might be capable of improvement. At the same time I submit that the abuses which the Government aims at minimising can be minimised by the deletion of section 18 (1) (b) and the addition of words so as to provide safeguards I have mentioned. I propose that section 18 (1) (b) be deleted.

THE HON. MR. S. W. TS'O seconded.

This was put to the vote and declared lost.

THE HON. MR. KOTEWALL.―In the circumstances the consequential amendments I had proposed to move cannot now be put forward.

Upon Council resuming,

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL reported that the Bill had passed through Committee without material amendment, and moved the third reading.

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded and the Bill was read a third time and passed.

LIFE INSURANCE COMPANIES ORDINANCE AMENDMENT, 1930.

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL moved the second reading of "A Bill to Amend the Life Insurance Companies Ordinance, 1907." He said:

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The object of this Bill is to give the office of Registrar perpetual succession in order to save conveyancing difficulties in cases where securities are deposited with the Registrar under the principal ordinance.

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded, and the Bill was read a second time. Council went into Committee to consider the Bill clause by clause.

Upon Council resuming,

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL reported that the Bill had passed through Committee without amendment, and moved the third reading.

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded and the Bill was read a third time and passed.

FIRE AND MARINE INSURANCE COMPANIES DEPOSIT ORDINANCE AMENDMENT, 1930.

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL moved the second reading of "A Bill to Amend the Fire and Marine Insurance Companies Deposit Ordinance, 1917." He said: The object of this Bill is precisely the same as that of the last Bill which deals with life insurance companies.

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded and the Bill was read a second time. Council went into Committee to consider the Bill clause by clause.

Upon Council resuming,

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL reported that the Bill had passed through Committee without amendment, and moved the third reading.

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded and the Bill was read a third time and passed.

COLONIAL TREASURER INCORPORATION ORDINANCE, 1930.

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL moved the second reading of "A Bill to Incorporate the Colonial Treasurer." He said: The objects of this Bill are fully explained in the memorandum attached to the Bill.

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded and the Bill was read a second time. Council went into Committee to consider the Bill clause by clause.

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Upon Council resuming,

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL reported that the Bill had passed through Committee without amendment, and moved the third reading.

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded, and the Bill was read a third time and passed.

PAWNBROKERS ORDINANCE, 1930.

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL moved the second reading of "A Bill to Amend the Law relating to Pawnbrokers." He said: This ordinance consolidates and amends the law relating to pawnbrokers and repeals the Ordinance of 1860 which hitherto has contained the law on this subject. It has, as Honourable members will see from the C.S.O. Number on the left-hand top corner, been four years in the course of preparation and this is the sixth print of these various drafts. It has been considered by the Secretary for Chinese Affairs and by members of the profession and has been published already in two issues of the Government Gazette. When the Bill goes into Committee I shall move, by direction of the Government, that the last fourteen words of section 16 be deleted. These words have relation to the giving of a receipt and they are not in the principal ordinance. They were suggested by one of the draftsmen who had a hand in this Bill but they have been objected to and it has been decided to delete them. I shall move that in Committee, and, with that reservation, I beg to propose that the Bill be read a second time.

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded and the Bill was read a second time. Council went into Committee to consider the Bill clause by clause.

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL moved that the last fourteen words of section 16 be deleted.

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded, and the amendment was agreed to. Upon Council resuming,

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL reported that the Bill had passed through Committee. He said: The only amendment has been the deletion of certain words at the end of clause 16. As Your Excellency's opinion is that this is an immaterial amendment I beg to move, under Standing Orders, Rule 28, that the Bill be read a third time and passed.

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded, and the Bill, as amended in Committee, was read a third time and passed.

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CRIMINAL PROCEDURE AMENDMENT ORDINANCE, 1930.

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL moved the second reading of "A Bill to Amend the Criminal Procedure Ordinance, 1899." He said: This Bill is, in some measure, linked to the Bill just passed because it refers to it in clause 8. It also has taken four years to prepare and these clauses have been very carefully considered and I think there can be no opposition to the improvements they make in the procedure of our Courts.

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded and the Bill was read a second time. The Council went into Committee to consider the Bill clause by clause.

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL moved that the figure 16 be inserted in the blank space on the left hand side of clause 8. He said: This refers to the Bill we have just passed, which will be referred to as No. 16, of 1930. I was unable to ascertain the number until this morning.

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded, and the amendment was agreed to. Upon Council resuming,

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL reported that the Bill had passed through Committee without amendment, except to a marginal note, and moved the third reading.

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded, and the Bill was read a third time and passed.

PUBLIC HEALTH AND BUILDINGS AMENDMENT ORDINANCE, 1930.

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL moved the second reading of "A Bill to Amend the Public Health and Building Ordinance, 1903." He said: Clause 2 of this Bill restores the Medical Officer of Health to the Sanitary Board and Clause 3 makes more stringent the regulations with regard to the constructions of staircases with a view to minimising fire risks.

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY second and the Bill was read a second time. The Council went into Committee to consider the Bill clause by clause. Upon Council resuming,

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THE ATTORNEY GENERAL reported that the Bill had passed through Committee without amendment, and moved the third reading.

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded, and the Bill was read a third time and passed.

THE ADJOURNMENT.

H.E. THE GOVERNOR.―At the request of Hon. members we are not proceeding with the next motion, the second reading of the Supply Bill, until Monday, the 20th of October, at 9.30 a.m. The Council stands adjourned until that day and hour.

FINANCE COMMITTEE.

Following the Council, a meeting of the Finance Committee was held, the Colonial Secretary presiding.

Votes totalling $18,560, contained in message No. 13 from H.E. the Governor, were considered.

Item 124: Public Works Extraordinary:―Traffic Improvements at Traffic Circus, Tsim Sha Tsui Wharf, $11,060.

THE CHAIRMAN.―I do not know whether members have seen the plan of the proposed alterations. We can pass it round the table for inspection. I might mention that His Excellency has taken the greatest personal interest in this arrangement and has been over on several occasions. This plan is the result of his personal investigation.

HON. MR. BRAGA.―Sir,―There can be nothing but satisfaction at the prospect of these badly-needed improvements at Kowloon Point being carried out at an early date. More than four years ago I pressed for them at a meeting of the Sanitary Board. It will, therefore, be seen that these improvements are now long overdue. There are points in connexion with the proposed improvements to which I would like again to draw the Honourable the Director of Public Works' attention. They refer to the Ricksha Coolie Shelter. Will the honourable gentleman kindly inform the Committee whether, in the plan of the new shelter, provision has been made for a table and seats for coolies while taking their morning and evening meals? It is a common sight for Kowloon residents to see the ricksha coolies squatting on the road over a manhole while consuming their morning or evening bowl of rice or rice congee. I feel that a little more thought might be given to these very useful and not always kindly considered fellow-citizens of ours, who mean so much comfort to residents on rainy and hot summer days. A little consideration for their comfort will not be lost and

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might easily be appreciated. They could at least be given the chance of consuming their frugal meals in comparative comfort and ease. My next suggestion is the provision, in the Shelter, of a stove. At present the coolies' saucepans are heated in Chinese earthenware stoves with flaming naked fires. The addition of a small gas or electric stove in the Shelter should not be beyond the means of the taxpayers to instal out of consideration for the much-abused coolies.

As regards the new parking area, could some information be obtained form Government as to its intentions regarding the garage now occupying Railway land on Salisbury Road? The Kowloon Residents' Association entered a strong protest against its construction. That protest was ignored, with the result that public interest has not been best served as regards parking space in a locality where ground should not be restricted when it can be made available for the benefit of the maximum number. There should be satisfaction at some assurance that the Kowloon residents' claim to greater consideration is not going to be again ignored.

THE CHAIRMAN.―I think we can claim that we have made a very good beginning with the re-arrangement of that circus but we cannot go so far as to consider the matter in the extreme detail you are suggesting. The garage is on a very short and temporary lease and the effect of this arrangement now made will be watched. Any further re-arrangement will depend on the circumstances of the future.

HON. MR. BRAGA.―Would the Government consider the expediency of referring to this Council the re-leasing or renewal of any lease granted to the present garage?

THE CHAIRMAN.―I cannot commit the Government to that, but I have no doubt that any question of re-leasing of that garage will be a matter for the most careful consideration, in view of the necessity of more space for the circus itself. This first beginning will be made now and any further step will only be made after a very full and careful consideration.

HON. MR. BRAGA.―It is, at the present time, a long distance to travel, so to speak, from the pier to the ground opposite the fire station. We would like this parking ground nearer to the ferry and have the portion now occupied by the hoarding for advertisements also brought within the provision for more parking space.

THE CHAIRMAN.―It needs great consideration. I can see you have in your mind the removal of Kowloon Railway Station.

HON. MR. BRAGA.―I do not think that I subscribed myself to that policy at all.

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HON. MR. J. J. PATERSON.―What I do not quite follow is where the buses are going to park. Are they going alongside these platforms in sequence, one behind the other? If so they will badly overlap. In the ordinary way, at the present moment, they park somewhere north of the proposed ricksha shelter. Are they still going to remain there?

THE CHAIRMAN.―Almost in the same spot as now. They will set down passengers on the railway station side of the circus and proceed to park as now.

HON. MR. C. G. S. MACKIE.―The landing stage seems to take up a lot of unnecessary room.

THE CHAIRMAN.―There has been some discussion on that, but they are only light wooden platforms.

HON. MR. PATERSON.―I take it that motor cars will have the right to run past these buses even if passengers are getting down. You should do away with the rule that prohibits a car from passing a bus, because if you are going to have this platform here, with buses stopping frequently, I do not see how anyone in an automobile is going to get as far as the Star Ferry at all.

THE CHAIRMAN.―I think you might leave that point to the later sequence of developments which will have to be worked out properly.

HON. MR. MACKIE.―It will not be a permanent thing? It will be made of wood?

THE CHAIRMAN.―It will be of wood. There will be nothing there so permanent that it cannot be removed.

THE COLONIAL TREASURER.―This is purely an experiment.

THE CHAIRMAN.―It has been an extraordinary difficult problem to work out. All the votes were approved.