HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. 47 5TH OCTOBER, 1916.
PRESENT:―
HIS EXCELLENCY THE GOVERNOR, SIR FRANCIS HENRY MAY, K.C.M.G.
HIS EXCELLENCY MAJOR-GENERAL F. VENTRIS (General Officer Commanding Troops in China).
HON. MR. CLAUD SEVERN (Colonial Secretary).
HON. MR. J. H. KEMP (Attorney-General). HON. MR. E. D. C. WOLFE (Colonial Treasurer).
HON. MR. E. R. HALLIFAX (Secretary for Chinese Affairs).
HON. MR. W. CHATHAM, C.M.G. (Director of Public Works).
HON. MR. C. MCI. MESSER (Captain Superintendent of Police).
HON. MR. WEI YUK, C.M.G.
HON. MR. H. E. POLLOCK, K.C.
HON. MR. E. SHELLIM.
HON. MR. D. LANDALE.
HON. MR. P. H. HOLYOAK.
MR. A. G. M. FLETCHER (Clerk of Councils). Honour for Mr. George Ng Fuk Shang
HIS EXCELLENCY, before proceeding with the agenda, addressed Mr. Ng Fuk Shang, formerly chief accountant in the Police Department, as follows:―
I have the honour to inform you that His Majesty the King has been graciously pleased to approve of your appointment to be a Companion of the Imperial Service Order, and I have now very much pleasure in handing you the badge of the Order and I will presently ask the Clerk of the Council to read His Majesty's Warrant. It affords me peculiar pleasure to perform this duty, because I am not unmindful of the many valuable services which you rendered to me personally during the nine years I had charge of the Police Department, where you acted first as clerk and then as chief clerk and accountant of that department.
Those nine years are a short period of your total services to this Colony. You joined the service in 1874 as clerk at the Magistracy and you were afterwards transferred to the Police Department, and before you retired you completed no less than 41 years' service. I know that I voice the wishes of the whole Civil Service when I say that they and I most sincerely pray that you will long be spared to enjoy the distinction which you have received.
The Clerk of the Council then read the Warrant, and the badge of the Order was presented to Mr. Ng Fuk Shang, who thanked His Excellency and retired.
Minutes
The minutes of the last meeting were confirmed. Papers
THE COLONIAL SECRETARY, by command of His Excellency the Governor, laid upon the table the following papers:―Correspondence relating to the petition for greater representation of the public on the Executive and Legislative Council; report of the Director of Public Works for the year 1915; corespondence relating to the Kowloon Bay reclamation scheme; quarterly return of excesses on sub-heads met by savings under heads of expenditure.
Finance
THE COLONIAL SECRETARY, by command of H.E. the Governor, laid upon the table report of meeting of the Finance Committee held on August 3rd (No. 6), and moved that it be adopted.
THE COLONIAL TREASURER, seconded, and this was agreed to.
THE COLONIAL SECRETARY, by command of H.E. the Governor, laid upon the table Financial Minutes Nos. 20 to 29, and moved that they be referred to the Finance Committee.
48 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.
Moorings in Victoria Harbour
Regarding Financial Minute 27, recommending a vote of $35,000 for the raising, renewing and re arrangement of moorings in Victoria harbour.
HIS EXCELLENCY said ― With regard to Financial Minute No. 27 I would like to say a few words. The sums asked for are required to complete the payments for the purchase of the buoys and moorings in Victoria Harbour and for raising and renewing some of them. Honourable Members will remember that I addressed the Secretary of State on this subject in August, 1914, and received his approval of the scheme on the 6th October, 1914. The correspondence is printed in Sessional Paper No. 17 of 1914. Owing to financial reasons the carrying out of the scheme was postponed during the first half of last year, but in October last I was able to report to the Secretary of State that the revenue receipts were so satisfactory that I had sanctioned the carrying into effect of a portion of the scheme involving the purchase of twenty C class buoys at a cost of $85,000, and the relaying of some of them in the coal and rice anchorages at a cost of $5,000. A sum of $140,000 was also provided in the estimates of the current year for the purchase of further buoys and moorings and a sum of $10,000 for relaying some of them. The scheme has now been satisfactorily completed at a total cost of $252,437. With this sum 45 moorings have been purchased as compared with an estimate of $250,000 for 40 moorings. Great credit is due to the Acting Harbour Master (Commander Beckwith) and the Acting Assistant Harbour Master (the late Lieutenant Davey) for this successful result, but I would remind you that the suggestion to acquire the moorings was first made by Commander Basil Taylour in the year 1902. The sum of $30,000 now asked for is to complete the sum of $252,431 referred to and to provide a sum of $2,539, which will be used, in addition to the $5,000 for other charges, to complete the work of raising and renewing moorings.
THE COLONIAL TREASURER seconded, and this was agreed to.
Hon. Mr. Pollock, K.C., and the Government Civil Hospital
HON. MR. H. E. POLLOCK, K.C., asked the following questions:―
1.―With reference to the new allocation of Sisters in A Block of the Government Civil Hospital, which was made by His Excellency the Governor at the last meeting of Council on the 3rd August, will the Government answer the following questions, namely: ―
(i).― Did not Sister Kelsey, pursuant to permission granted prior to the said Meeting of Council, leave this Colony on long leave, on the 9th August?
(ii).― Have not the services of one of the Private Nurses been requisitioned for private nursing, so as to render her unavailable for Hospital work? During what dates between the 3rd August and the date of these Questions (21st August), have the services of such Private Nurse been required for private nursing?
(iii).― On what dates between the last Meeting of Council (3rd August) and the date of these Questions (21st August) have there been two Sisters on duty in the morning in A Block, namely, one Sister on each floor?
(iv).― On what dates between the said dates has there been a Sister on duty, attending to the operating theatre exclusively?
(v).― Is not Sister Gorham, pursuant to permission granted to her prior to the said Meeting of Council, due to go away from the Colony on long leave on the 30th August, 1916?
(vi).― When will Sister Sloan complete her present current period of 4 years' Service? (vii).― Have the Government secured the service of any, and, if so, what Sister or Nurses since the last Meeting of Council?
(viii).―Has Sister Jacobs resigned from the Government Hospitals Service in this Colony?
2.―With reference to the re-arrangement of the Staff in B Block of the Government Civil Hospital, which was
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. 49
announced at the said Meeting of Council, under which re-arrangement the nursing of patients in B Block is left entirely to Probationers and Japanese Nurses, will the Government state the respective lengths of Service of the Probationers who are left in charge of B Block? And will the Government also state whether such Japanese Nurses, and, if so, how many of them possess a sufficient knowledge of English, written as well as spoken, to render them independent of the aid of an Interpreter into English, in the discharge of their duties? Are the Japanese Nurses in charge of the wards in B Block or are the Probationers in charge of such wards?
3.―Was not the stock of drugs and disinfectants kept in store at the Government Civil Hospital considerably reduced by the present Principal Civil Medical Officer before the War?
THE COLONIAL SECRETARY replied as follow:―
1.―(i.)―Yes.
(ii.)― One of the private Nursing Sisters went out to a case on 3rd August and remained with the case until the 12th September. The other private Sister was available for hospital work.
(iii.)― From August 15th to 21st.
(iv.)― From August 15th to 21st.
(v.)― Yes. Sister Gorham was granted leave to go as soon as she desired to do so and she went on the 8th September.
(vi.)― Sister Sloan completes four years' resident service on the 13th December. She does not know at present whether she will go in December or later.
(vii.)―The following Nursing Staff have been engaged since 3rd August:―
(a)― Mrs. McEwen was taken on as a temporary maternity nurse on the 21st August. She originally applied to be taken on the Staff on the 28th July, 1916, saying that she could not join before about 25th August.
(b)― Mrs. Birnie was taken on on the 16th August as a temporary sister. She applied on the 6th August. She resigned on the 20th September.
(c)― Mrs. Churchill was taken on on the 8th September as a temporary sister. The question of her serving was first raised about the 15th August.
(d)― Miss Halley joined as a temporary sister on the 18th September. She applied from Wiehaiwei on 31st July.
(e)― Mrs. Fraser joined on the 2nd October as a temporary maternity nurse.
(f)― Two Japanese Staff Nurses joined on the 6th September.
(viii.)―Miss Jacobs was transferred by the Colonial Office to the Federated Malay States while on leave.
2. ― Probationer Nurse Smith appointed 1st November, 1915. Probationer Nurse Roberts on the 12th November, 1915, and Probationer Nurse Meadows on the 4th April, 1916. As to the knowledge of English possessed by the Japanese Nurses the Superintendent writes as follows:―"All of them possess quite a fair knowledge of writing English and are able to do so intelligently. Nurses Mishima, Sakamoto, and Tsuchimoto understand spoken English quite well, but the other two not quite so well. They all have some difficulty in reading the written language." At present they do require some amount of interpreting, but I have no doubt they will improve with daily practice in hearing and in speaking the language." Under date of the 8th of September the Matron reported as follow:―"I find they are improving daily and their nursing is excellent, I am quite satisfied with their progress. The last two arrivals are very good indeed and speak English quite well, they both appear to be well trained nurses. Dr. Moore expressed his opinion to me that the nursing has been done quite satisfactorily in B Block by these nurses."
"As regards the nursing generally in B Block. Under date of 20th September the Superintendent of the Government Civil Hospital reported as follows:―"I have no adverse criticism to make on the work of Japanese Staff Nurses and Probationary Nurses. I know of no instance in which patients have not been properly nursed." Under date of 21st September Dr. G. E. Aubrey, Honorary Visiting Physician to the Government
50 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.
Civil Hospital, reported as follows:―"Regarding the Japanese Nurses they are very conscientious over their work and learn quickly. When they first arrived they apparently understood but little English, but they already understand what is said to them and I can understand them. They have evidently been well and fully trained. At the present time I think B Block has as many Nurses and as good ones as any hospital I know of."
"As to the question of who is in charge of the Nursing in B Block the Japanese staff nurses and not the probationers are in charge."
3.―The expenditure in the years 1907-1915, inclusive, has been as follows:―1907, $9,996; 1908, $11,549; 1909, $11,126; 1910, $11,363; 1911, $11,682; 1912, $10,136; 1913, $9,905; 1914, $10,147; 1915, $9,714.
"The present Principal Civil Medical Officer arrived in the Colony on the 15th January, 1913, after the indents for 1913 had been forwarded to the Crown Agents."
HON. MR. POLLOCK ―Arising out of the answers just given, Sir, I wish to put two more questions. The first is with regard to the answer to clause 8 of question 1. I should like to ask whether it is not a fact that Sister Jacobs was transferred to the Federated Malay States at her own express request.
HIS EXCELLENCY―The answer is in the affirmative.
HON. MR. POLLOCK―With regard to the answer to question 3 I would beg leave to point out that there has been no answer given to that question at all. We have been inundated with a lot of figures, but the question I put was a very simple one―Was not the stock of drugs and disinfectants kept in store at the Government Civil Hospital considerably reduced by the present Principal Civil Medical Officer before the war?
HIS EXCELLENCY―You will see by the figures that the expenditure in 1914 was rather greater than in 1912, and in 1913 the expenditure was less. I should like to inform the hon. member that the Principal Civil Medical Officer was not responsible for the indents for the year 1913, as he only arrived here early in that year.
HON. MR. POLLOCK―The stores must be kept, Sir. That is absolutely no answer to the question at all. It does not follow that because a sum of money is voted that it is used. I want an answer, Sir.
HIS EXCELLENCY―This is actual expenditure, it is not a vote.
HON. MR. POLLOCK―Does your Excellency mean that all these sums have been expended?
HIS EXCELLENCY―All these sums down here have been spent on stores, drugs and disinfectants.
HON. MR. POLLOCK―I should like an answer to my questions, a definite answer to my question, whether the stock kept in store was not considerably reduced before the war. I want an answer and I shall repeat the question until I get an answer.
HIS EXCELLENCY―What the hon. member wants to infer by the question is that the Principal Civil Medical Officer has unduly reduced the supply of stores, drugs and disinfectants. My reply to that is that he has not done so. I am perfectly satisfied that the hospital has been well supplied with all these articles.
HON. MR. POLLOCK―I am not satisfied with that reply, with all due deference to your Excellency, who may not be aware of what has happened. I should like an answer given on the responsibility of the Principal Civil Medical Officer.
HIS EXCELLENCY―I have given you a reply.
HON. MR. POLLOCK―I do not want any assurance from your Excellency, because your Excellency may not be quite aware of what has taken place.
HIS EXCELLENCY―I am very fully aware.
HON. MR. POLLOCK―I want a direct answer to the question and I want it on the responsibility of the Principal Civil Medical Officer. It is very chivalrous of your Excellency to come forward in this way, but I want a definite reply to my question.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. 51
HIS EXCELLENCY―I will give you a reply at the next meeting of the Council, and now, may I ask the hon. member one or two questions arising out of the questions?
HON. MR. POLLOCK―I am not here to be asked questions arising out of my questions, and I venture to say that your Excellency, as President of the Council, is entirely out of order.
HIS EXCELLENCY―I should like an elucidation. The hon. member comes here meeting after meeting and he inundates the Government with very voluminous questions, which take a great deal of time in the answering. Now he has asked, for instance, to-day, questions about the knowledge of English of the Japanese nurses. I am rather curious to know if the hon. member has even seen these nurses or ever spoken to them, or whether, in fact, the hon. member has ever been inside the walls of the Civil Hospital during the current year. If not, how does he come to question their knowledge of English?
HON. MR. POLLOCK―I have no intention, Sir, of replying to that question, and I have no intention of being catechised as to my sources of information. I say again that I think your Excellency is absolutely and entirely out of order. I may also say that I regard the action of your Excellency as being in extremely bad taste.
THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL―I rise to a point of order. Is the hon. member in order in using that expression to the Chair?
HON. MR. POLLOCK―I will substitute for the words "extremely bad taste" an expression which is the Parliamentary equivalent. I used the words in a Parliamentary sense. I say, Sir, that it is very wrong for your Excellency to suggest that I am always worrying the Government unnecessarily with questions.
HIS EXCELLENCY―I have not suggested any such thing.
HON. MR. POLLOCK―Yes, you have, Sir. You have sugggested it now and you suggested it at a previous meeting of the Council. I think it is very uncalled for. I should have thought we had got beyond that, and I think that I should have escaped
the imputation you made. With regard to the trouble caused by me, as you said, among Government officials, I can assure your Excellency that I am perfectly certain that I myself have been put to a great deal more trouble in bringing matters forward here in an endeavour to have things put right at the Government Civil Hospital. Your Excellency has altogether reconstructed the staff very recently, and yet has assured the Council that there is nothing wrong, substantially nothing wrong, and nothing requiring improvement. It has been implied that I was only a pestilential fellow, putting questions quite unnecessarily, Sir I very much resent that indictment, and I think, Sir, it is very discreditable that a member of the Council who is honestly trying to do his best for the public should be treated in this way when he puts questions to the Government, and I cannot conceive, Sir, that the Prime Minister of Great Britain himself would ever dare to get up in the House of Commons and say to a member, "Why are all these questions put? We do not like being worried with these questions, which give a lot of trouble to the Government."
HIS EXCELLENCY―The hon. member has imputed to me words I never uttered. I asked the hon. member a simple question and he has given me no answer. Very well, let it stand at that.
HON. MR. POLLOCK―I did not do so, Sir. Your Excellency may have thought so, and it is very unfortunate, I ―
THE COLONIAL SECRETARY―I rise to a point of order. His Excellency the President is standing and ―
HON. MR. POLLOCK―He is not, and I am sorry the Colonial Secretary is so short-sighted. I wish to say this, I have imputed to you, Sir, nothing you have not said. The previous history of Hansard will show what your Excellency said on the subject.
HIS EXCELLENCY―I said the questions gave the Government officials a great deal of trouble, and so they do.
HON. MR. POLLOCK―You inferred that they caused a lot of unjustifiable trouble.
HIS EXCELLENCY―I did no such thing.
52 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.
HON. MR. POLLOCK―Well, if it does not mean what I do not know what it does mean. With regard to my sources of information, I think it most improper that your Excellency should try and enquire as to my sources of information.
HIS EXCELLENCY―I did not ask you for your sources of information. I asked you if you had ever seen or spoken to the Japanese nurses.
HON. MR. POLLOCK―What I said was ―
HIS EXCELLENCY Council stands adjourned until this day week. There will be a Finance Meeting after this meeting.
His Excellency then left the Council Chamber. ——
FINANCE COMMITTEE.
——
A meeting of the Finance Committee followed, the COLONIAL SECRETARY presiding.
The Governor recommended the Council to vote a sum of nineteen thousand five hundred dollars ($19,500) in aid of the following votes:―
Public Works, Recurrent
Hongkong, Miscellaneous:―
Typhoon and rainstorm damages ............. $15,000 Kowloon, Miscellaneous:―
Typhoon and rainstorm damages ............. 3,000 New Territories, Miscellaneous:―
Typhoon and rainstorm damages ― Mainland and Islands in Northern
District ................................................. 1,500 ———
Total .............................................. $19,500 The vote was agreed to.
Lighthouses and Lights
The Governor recommended the Council to vote a sum of one thousand four hundred and eighty dollars and eighty-nine cents ($1,480.89) in aid of Harbour Master's Department, Special Expenditure, F.― Lighthouses and Lights, Installation of Aga Light at Ma Wan Island.
The vote was agreed to.
Kowloon Improvements
The Governor recommended the Council to vote a sum of one thousand five hundred dollars ($1,500) in aid of the vote Public Works. Extraordinary, Kowloon, Communications, Roads, General Works.
The vote was agreed to.
Upkeep of Plants
The Governor recommended the Council to vote a sum of six thousand dollars ($6,000) in aid of the vote Public Works, Recurrent, Hongkong, Miscellaneous, upkeep of plant.
The vote was agreed to.
Relief of Destitutes
The Governor recommended the Council to vote a sum of one thousand dollars ($1,000 in aid of the vote charitable services, passages and relief of destitutes.
The vote was agreed to.
Educational
The Governor recommended the Council to vote a sum of two thousand two hundred dollars ($2,200) in aid of Education Special Expenditure, A. ― Department of Director of Education, Ellis Kadoorie School for Indians, furniture.
The vote was agreed to.
Prison Charges
The Governor recommended the Council to vote a sum of one thousand four hundred and fifty dollars ($1,450) in aid of Police and Prison Departments, C. ― Prison, other charges, night-soil buckets.
The vote was agreed to.
Harbour Expenditure
The Governor recommended the Council to vote a sum of thirty-five thousand dollars ($35,000) in aid of the following votes, viz.:―
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. 53
Harbour Master's Department
A.―Harbour Office:―
Other charges, raising and renewing moorings, of ocean steamship ............... $ 5,000
Special expenditure, acquisition and re arrangement of moorings in Victoria
Harbour ................................................... 30,000 ———
Total, ................................................. $35,000
THE CHAIRMAN―His Excellency the Governor has already explained the reasons for these votes.
HON. MR. POLLOCK―I ask for a division. Unofficial members of the Council persistently opposed this scheme, which was forced on them by the Government. Therefore, I think the extra votes should be refused. We have always opposed this.
On a division being taken, the votes were agreed to, only the Hon. Mr. Pollock voting against them.
Lighting Extensions at Kowloon
The Governor recommended the Council to vote a sum of four hundred dollars ($400) in aid of the vote Public Works, Extraordinary, Kowloon, Lighting Extensions of Lighting.
The vote was agreed to.
Charitable Services
The Governor recommended the Council to vote a sum of one thousand dollars ($1,000) in aid of the vote charitable services, other charitable allowances.
The vote was agreed to.
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