1913-10-23 — Page 1

HONGKONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL 79 23RD OCTOBER, 1913.

PRESENT:―

HIS EXCELLENCY THE OFFICER ADMINISTERING THE GOVERNMENT, HON. MR. CLAUD SEVERN.

H.E. MAJOR-GENERAL F. H. KELLY, C.B.

HON. MR. A. M. THOMSON (Colonial Secretary).

HON. MR. J. A. S. BUCKNILL, K.C. (Attorney General).

HON. MR. A. G. M. FLETCHER (Colonial Treasurer).

HON. MR. W. CHATHAM, C.M.G. (Director of Public Works).

HON. MR. E. R. HALLIFAX (Secretary for Chinese Affairs).

HON. MR. C. MCI. MESSER (Captain Superintendent of Police).

HON. MR. WEI YUK, C.M.G.

HON. MR. E. A. HEWETT, C.M.G.

HON. MR. E. SHELLIM.

HON. MR. D. LANDALE.

HON. MR. LAU CHU PAK.

MR. R. H. CROFTON (Clerk of Councils). Minutes

The minutes of the previous meeting were confirmed.

Financial Minutes

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY, by command of H.E. the Officer Administering the Government, laid on the table Financial Minutes Nos. 62 to 67, and moved that they be referred to the Finance Committee.

THE COLONIAL TREASURER seconded, and the motion was agreed to.

Financial

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY, by command of H.E. the Officer Administering the Government, laid

on the table the report of the Finance Committee (No. 14), and moved its adoption.

THE COLONIAL TREASURER seconded, and the motion was agreed to.

The Military Contribution

HON. MR. HEWETT―Sir, I beg to move the resolution standing in my name, but before doing so I will make a few remarks on the subject. Once a year the unofficial members have the privilege of discussing the estimates for the following year, and for many years past a most important item of the estimates has been our military contribution, this year amounting to very nearly 17 lakhs out of a total revenue of 95 lakhs. We are unable to understand why we should not be allowed to discuss such a very important item of expenditure whenever the estimates are put before us. However, a higher power has ruled that this is not to be, although at the same time we do not see how it is possible that such a regulation has been laid down, and can only suppose that it has been done by the kindly forethought of the Secretary of State for the Colonies, who wished to save the unofficial members the almost useless and hopeless task of trying to get this excessive tax reduced. Therefore it is necessary, if we are to have any discussion at all on the question of the military contribution, to bring forward a special resolution, and I have done so this year because I think the time has now arrived to enter the strongest protest we possibly can against this unjust tax. Time was when feeling in the Colony was strong as to paying any tax at all. My predecessor, Sir Thomas Sutherland, speaking when the vote was first brought before this Council, was no doubt voicing the feeling of the community when he said he considered the Colony should not be called upon to pay any contribution at all. However, a good deal of water has run under the bridge since then. Our views have changed and we have become more imperialistic in our ideas. I do not think we will find any people who will object to contributing towards the upkeep of the garrison of the Colony, but we do most strongly object to this excessive tax which is enforced upon us,

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and as your Excellency is aware we have repeatedly protested against this tax. At the present moment our revenue is 9 14 million dollars, and it is estimated that we have to expend about 10 12 million, and have to draw from our reserves in order to balance the budget. An important item of the revenue is a tax to which we object, and hope to see abolished eventually―I refer to the tax on liquor. Next year it is estimated to produce something like $700,000. That tax was enforced very much against the wishes of the Government, and very much against the wishes of the community. But money had to be raised for the time being, and we agreed to it. Out of that tax next year when money is raised to balance the budget we will have to no less a sum than $145,000 towards the military contribution. There is probably hardly any Colony, if any Colony at all. under the British flag which is forced by geographical and other conditions to spend such enormous sums of money in public works. Situated as we are, in the region of typhoons, we have to spend very large sums on the refuge for small craft, on damage done ashore and afloat and by wreckage of houses; also by damage done to the public gardens, to trees, and by loss of life through the capsizing of boats. And that will always go on. We have to remember that through the formation of the island we have to depend upon our water supply for storage which is collected through a short time in the year; no one reservoir can drain sufficient water for our needs. I remember the time when the first Tytam reservoir was made, when people were saying, "Thank goodness, there will be no more famine." Since then our water supply has been increased by two-thirds, and even this year we suffered from a very severe famine. The sites for our buildings have been provided at great cost, being either hewn out of the hills or reclaimed from the harbour. The same applies to our roads, and I would remind you that a great many of them have been made for military purposes, notwithstanding the fact that they furnish a pleasant walk on Saturday or Sunday afternoons. That being so, it is imperative that we should have as much of our revenue as possible expended upon ourselves. Every few years we see some important public work completed, and we then immediately have to start on something else. Even now, although we are engaged on two very important public works costing millions of dollars, a reclamation scheme, the dredging of the harbour and other works must be carried out if this Colony is to hold the position it does. Therefore it is wrong, absolutely wrong, that the Home Government should force us against our will―for with the exception of Sir Henry May none of us support the tax put upon us now―to pay such an excessive share

of our revenue for this purpose. I think that is all I need say, because the question has been frequently discussed, and the same thing has been said over and over again. As you are aware, however, a very important Commission met last Spring on the question of the military contribution from overseas possessions. I think that Commission closed in August or September last year, and we should be very glad to hear from his Excellency whether anything has been heard as to the findings of that Commission. As your Excellency is aware, in June, 1911, a motion was brought forward in this Council that the military contribution from this Colony should not exceed more than one million dollars in one year. Most of us were in favour of limiting it to eight lakhs, but after considerable discussion we decided to be generous and suggest a round sum of one million dollars. We thought that should be the very outside. With these remarks I beg to move the resolution standing in my name, which is as follows:―

"It is hereby resolved that in the opinion of this Council it is expedient that the "Defence Contribution Ordinance, 1901, be so amended as to provide that the contribution in respect of any one year shall not exceed the sum of one million dollars local currency ($1,000,000)."

HON. MR. WEI YUK seconded the resolution.

HON. MR. LANDALE―I should like to say a few words in support of this motion. The amount of one million dollars in connection with the contribution makes it quite clear that it is not to contributing towards the defence forces that we object, but to the system under which the amount of the contribution is assessed. So much has been said on this subject that it is hardly necessary for me to repeat that when the Government of this Colony decides to undertake any large public work the cost of that public work has to be paid for out of revenue, and in order to raise that revenue taxation

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has to be imposed, not only to the full cost of that public work, but to a large extent twenty per cent. in addition. I think, sir, that such a system cannot be defended upon any reasonable grounds. And there is another view of this matter, which, I think, one is rather apt to overlook, and that is, that although the military contribution is the only direct contribution made in Hongkong, there is a pretty large sum of money which reaches the Chancellor of the Exchequor in London, indirectly from Hongkong. If you take, for instance, in the first place, the steamers ―British steamers―that use this port―and we should remember that the mainstay of this place is shipping―the great majority of them belong to companies registered in London. And on the profits which these companies make upon the steamers coming here they have to pay taxes. Take another instance. The manufacturer makes a profit on any goods which he produces and sells in Hongkong and he has to pay on that profit an income tax. There is another―as everybody knows―very large sum of money sent annually from Hongkong, which when it reaches England is liable to income tax. It would be a very difficult matter to compute the aggregate of all these sums, but it must reach a very considerable sum of money. And this revenue would not exist if Hongkong did not exist. It may be said that this is an inopportune moment to raise this question of military contribution in view of the recent disturbances in China, but I do not think so. The recent additions to the garrison here were not altogether for the defence of Hongkong. They were for the protection of British trade in China. And if you apply my argument to the much larger question of the cost of protecting British trade in China, there can be no doubt whatever that the British nation and the British Government derive a very large revenue from that trade. I think that, taking this matter fully into consideration, the direct contribution from Hongkong is only justifiable on the grounds that the amount should be subscribed proportionately, and the amount from Hongkong should not be a very large amount. The only return which the British Government can make to those who work to produce the revenue which they collect from the trade with China is to grant them a certain measure of protection by the forces of the Crown, and surely it cannot be argued that we are not entitled to that protection.

HIS EXCELLENCY―I may say that it was with no sort of surprise that I understood that the hon. member who represents the Chamber of Commerce was to put this motion down for discussion to-day, because we know that year after year he has

addressed this Council on the same subject. And it was with no surprise that I found that he had put down this motion this year when we realise that the amount which has to be allocated for the defence contribution is so much greater than it has been before. The hon. member again referred to the fact that the hon. members of this Council are debarred from discussing the subject of the defence contribution when the Supply Bill comes before the Council. That, of course, follows naturally from the fact that this contribution from the revenue is provided for by Ordinance, and therefore it would be quite out of order in the ordinary debate on the Supply Bill to discuss it. We have all listened with great interest to the arguments of the hon. member, and also to the arguments of the hon. member on my left (Hon. Mr. Landale), which, in some measure, were new ones. The discussion on this motion, will, in the ordinary course, go Home to the Secretary of State, who will have the opportunity of reading it. But, on behalf of the Government, I may say we are unable to accept this motion, for, as the Council have already been informed, this subject has been considered by the Committee appointed by His Majesty's Government; and further, it is not a matter in which we are able to make any recommendation.

HON. MR. HEWETT―I presume, therefore, sir, you have no information as to the result of that Committee?

HIS EXCELLENCY―I have no information. HON. MR. HEWETT―I ask for a poll, sir. A poll was then taken, and resulted as follows:―

AYES:―Hon. Mr. Lau Chu Pak, Hon. Mr. D. Landale, Hon. Mr. E. Shellim, Hon. Mr. E. A. Hewett, Hon. Mr. Wei Yuk.

NOES:―The Captain Superintendent of Police, the Secretary for Chinese Affairs, the Director of Public Works, the

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Colonial Treasurer, the Attorney-General, the Colonial Secretary and H.E. the Officer Administering the Government.

HIS EXCELLENCY―For, 5; Against, 7. The motion is lost.

Criminal Procedure

THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL moved the second reading of the Bill entitled, "An Ordinance to amend the Criminal Procedure Ordinance, 1899." He said― The object of this Ordinance is a very simple one, and it may be explained in a very few words. Hon. members will recollect that not very long ago an arrangement was made by which one of the Judges of His Majesty's Supreme Court in China should, twice a year, come down to this Colony in order to form a Full Court of three Judges for hearing certain cases on appeal. It was then thought it would be possible to fix definitely two months during which such sessions should take place. But owing to various reasons it has not been possible that those months could be fixed with convenience either for the local practitioners and the local bench, or for the Judge who has to come down from the north of China to take part in the deliberations of the Court. As a consequence it was necessary to alter the present Ordinance (which fixes definitely two specific months) so that it may be possible to fix the two occasions from time to time as may be convenient. The Bill is purely a matter of legal procedure and there is nothing of any contentious character in it in any way.

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded.

HON. MR. LAU CHU PAK ― With your permission, your Excellency, I should like to ask, will this change in any way prolong the detention of the persons accused? I quite agree that the convenience of the Court should be consulted. but I should not like to make the persons accused suffer unnecessary wrong while waiting for trial. Some of these persons may not be guilty at all.

THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL―I do not think it will make any difference at all to prisoners. The arrangement will be that as far as possible Criminal Sessions will be held every month with the exception of the two months in which the Full Court is held, and I imagine that where it is feasible in any way the Full Court Session will be held in December and June, or in January and July. There will always be, as far as possible, a six months' interval between the two

sessions. I do not think it will make any difference to prisoners awaiting trial. Under the present arrangements, when a prisoner is committed for trial in the month prior to the month when the Full Court is going to sit he might have to wait in prison six weeks or a little more before he is tried. Under the present Ordinance, naturally, he would still have to wait this period before he is tried. But this Ordinance will not make him wait any longer than he has to wait under the present arrangement.

Council then went into Committee to consider the Bill clause by clause.

On resuming,

THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL reported that the Bill had passed through Committee without amendment, and moved that it be read a third time.

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded, and the Bill was read a third time and passed.

Magistrates' Amendment Ordinance

THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL moved the second reading of the Bill entitled, "An Ordinance to Amend the Magistrates' Ordinance, 1890." In doing so he said ―This Bill, sir, is a corollary of the other Bill. It is necessary for the same reason, and the first Bill having been passed, the second one should also be passed. Under the Magistrates' Ordinance, the Magistrate is bound, for the sake of assuring as speedy as possible the trial of a prisoner, to commit him to the earliest possible Assize. Under the Bill to which I am now referring the same arrangement will hold good under the altered arrangements as to the month in which the Sessions of the Full Court will be held. This is quite a formal Bill, and merely a matter of procedure, like the other. I therefore move the second reading.

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded, and the motion was carried.

THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL moved that the Council go into Committee to consider the Bill clause by clause.

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THE COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded, and the motion was carried.

On Council resuming,

THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL reported that the Bill had passed through Committee without amendment, and moved that it be read a third time.

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded, and the Bill was read a third time and passed.

The Sugar Convention Ordinance

THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL moved the second reading of a Bill entitled, "An Ordinance to repeal the Sugar Convention Ordinance, 1904." In doing so he said―Sir, in March, 1902, His Majesty's Government entered into a Convention―the Brussels Sugar Convention―the principal object of which, as is probably known to all hon. members, was to endeavour to bring into some sort of harmonious treatment the tariff arrangements which were applicable to sugar, and to penalise to some extent the introduction into the countries of the signatories to the Convention sugar which was the subject of bounty or of subsidy. For some years (I think, since 1907) His Majesty's Government have had under consideration the question of withdrawal from this Convention, as being some form of preferential treatment, which was contrary to His Majesty's Government's policy, and it was eventually decided by His Majesty's Government ―and the decision was carried into effect―to withdraw from this Sugar Convention. Accordingly, the withdrawal was effected towards the end of last year. A year's notice had to be given, and the withdrawal did come into effect, I believe, in September of this year. Now, sir, of course this Convention bound, and was adopted by, all the Colonies―not necessarily by the Dominions, but by all the Crown Colonies―and the effect of the withdrawal is that the Ordinances and arrangements which were made by the Colonies in accordance with the example of the Mother Country are all abrogated now. Consequently it is necessary that we should repeal our Sugar Convention Ordinance of 1904, which was Ordinance No. 14 of that year. I may add, sir, for fear that anyone should attach a too large importance to the question locally, that so far as this Colony is concerned the Brussels Sugar Convention has practically been a dead letter. No bounty-fed sugar, as far as I am aware, or any subsidised sugar, has been, or is likely to be, introduced or imported into this Colony, and the restrictions upon, and prohibition of,

such importation into Hongkong have been merely a nominal word on our Statute. I therefore beg to move the second reading of the Bill.

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded, and the motion was carried.

Council then went into Committee to consider the Bill clause by clause.

On resuming,

THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL reported that the Bill had passed through Committee, and moved that it be read a third time.

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded, and the Bill was read a third time and passed.

The Estimates

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY―Sir, I beg to move the second reading of the Bill entitled, "An Ordinance to apply a sum not exceeding eight million eight hundred and ninety-six thousand eight hundred and seventy-six dollars to the Public Service of the year 1914." In so doing I would draw attention to one or two alterations, one being on page 119, which shows the calculation for the defence contribution. The calculation is made in accordance with recent instructions received from the Secretary of State, which necessitates alteration of the figures on pages 84 and 19. The alteration makes the money spent and charged to the public debt rather clearer than in the former statement.

THE COLONIAL TREASURER seconded.

HON. MR. HEWETT―Your Excellency, I have been asked by the unofficial members to speak first in reply to your speech of a fortnight ago when you laid the Estimates before us. I shall endeavour to do so as briefly as possible, and for the sake of convenience will take the Estimates in the order in which they are printed,

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commencing with revenue. On page 5 there is an increase of 1 12 millions, of which 13 lakhs are the estimated profit of the new opium monopoly. The gross revenue therefore stands at about 9 12 millions. This, of course, for the moment is very satisfactory, but knowing as we do the trend of public feeling at Home, and guessing as we may the probable policy of the Home Government, we cannot look upon this very valuable source of revenue derived from the opium trade as permanent income, and must be prepared at very short notice to forego this altogether. That being so, it is necessary to husband our resources, and I will say more about that later on. At the bottom of page 8 there is a small thing; still I think it might be explained. On forfeitures there is an estimated increase of from $12,000 to $20,000, an increase of 60 per cent. I don't quite see what forfeitures are, but I presume they are some form of punishment, and they are going to result in a very considerable increase. On page 9, liquor duties, which I have already referred to this afternoon, amount to $715,000. As I have already reminded this honourable Council, no one from the Governor downwards desires that this tax should be continued longer than necessary. It was only introduced as a case of desperate necessity to pay for many other things than the military contribution. We have all been looking forward, since the fortunate settlement of affairs in China and the election of the President, to a further term of prosperity resulting, but the Government do not appear to share our optimistic hopes, because I notice they say there is going to be an increase in pawnbrokers' licences of about $15,000. Stamp duties show the satisfactory increase of no less than a lakh and a half. As we all know, for many years past a large section of the community have deliberately defrauded the Government of these duties, and I am glad to see that by the appointment of a detective service even a further increase may result from this very valuable source of revenue. The only other point on the side of revenue I will refer to is on page 16, rent of Government offices, an increase of from $21,000 to $49,000. I think that we had occasion to criticise―if it was not done in the Legislative Council it was certainly done elsewhere―the manner in which the old Post Office was rented for two years to a Chinaman who was able to reap a very large profit because his tender was accepted. And that brings up the question of letting out work and being rigidly guided by tender. It is usual amongst business people when calling for tenders to announce that "the highest or any tender need not necessarily be accepted," but the Government apparently, I presume, are required by regulations to accept a tender. The rent for the old Post Office is absolutely ridiculous, and

should never have been accepted. As regards the renting of the upper floor of the new Post Office, we are of opinion that the Government, having spent large sums of ratepayers' money on a public building, should not compete with private house-owners by taking in tenants. Now, turning to expenditure. In all, or nearly all, the departments, there has been a steadily increasing cost of staff, and it is not very easy for an unofficial member going through the figures to find out exactly what the increase amounts to, but so far as I can gather new posts alone cost $145,000, and these appointments are almost entirely in the lower grades. In addition to this annual increase we must also bear in mind that most of these subordinate officers are paid house allowances, or, at great cost, the Government have to supply them with dwelling houses, and there is also an increase to our pension fund. Unofficials have repeatedly called attention to this. They are not at all satisfied in their own minds that these constant increases in the Civil Service staff are really necessary, and it may be that later on they will ask for further information on the subject. Personally I have not had time to go into the subject deeply, but one of my colleagues, who is prevented through illness from being here to-day, is satisfied from figures he showed me that some of these increases at all events are not really required. There is, however, a new appointment which we entirely endorse. That is, the appointment of a senior cadet as the Assistant Secretary for Chinese Affairs. The work of that department is very onerous, and also the most important in our Colony. We all know the amount of work which is thrown on the Secretary for Chinese Affairs, and are glad to know that the Government has at last decided to give him an understudy, who, I am sure, will be of very great use in keeping up the efficiency of this very important department. On page 37 there is an item of a lakh and a half for the erection of buildings for the lower grades of Government servants that we entirely endorse, but we do not think.

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as matters now stand, that the Government should incur any expense in erecting permanent buildings for the opium establishment, because, as I have already said, the whole of that monopoly will probably have to be wiped out before very long. On page 39 there is a small entry of $180, pay for a watchman for the bathing establishment at North Point. That is a small step in the right direction, and I trust that this matter will be having the consideration of the Government in the near future. I do not say more, as one of my friends will speak on this subject. Your Excellency specially referred in your speech to the grant of $10,000, making $20,000, to the University, the second sum being for the Engineering Faculty. That, of course, is most certainly endorsed by the unofficial members. Coming to the Judicial and Legal Departments, a good deal of money is spent there, but there is no particular reference, as far as I can make out, to the new publication of the Ordinances. Unofficial members are perfectly aware that the gentleman who has drawn up these Ordinances has devoted a great deal of time, thought and ability to the compilation of this very valuable work. Sir John Carrington when he revised the Ordinances received very substantial remuneration in the matter of pay, extension of leave and so on. His successor was even more generously dealt with, and I consider that Mr. Alabaster should receive substantial recognition for his work. I don't know what the Government have in mind, but I think in the form of a present, a testimonial or a fee Mr. Alabaster should receive not less than £500 sterling, and that will be a very cheap amount to pay for such a valuable work. If it is necessary for this point to be referred to the Secretary of State I trust your Excellency will do so, with the addition that it is very strongly urged by unofficial members as a recognition of his valuable services. Coming now to page 60 and the question of hospital nurses, there is no particular reference in your Excellency's speech to this important question, but the matter has been considered carefully by myself and my colleagues and certain representatives of the community. In order that I may represent their views I drafted roughly what I have to say on the subject and with your permission, as it is very short, I will read it: ―Another point to which I wish to refer is that of the nurses in the Government hospitals. It is generally admitted that where possible trained nurses should be substituted for the old-fashioned hospital attendant, generally a man, and often an entirely untrained one, with which we had to satisfy ourselves, even a few years ago. This policy has been endorsed by successive Secretaries of State and encouragment has been given by the Colonial Office for some years past to extend the use of trained nurses in our hospitals

abroad. In view of the number of hospitals now in existence in the Colony, the number of nurses at present engaged by the local Government seems to be altogether inadequate. The result of working shorthanded is that the nurses are often subjected to an undue strain owing to long hours, having to attend to too large a number of patients at one time and with entirely too little opportunity for the rest and recreation which is so necessary to women engaged in so arduous and important a profession, while we understand it is not infrequently the case that a nurse engaged in maternity cases has at the same time to attend to other patients. The matter has recently been much discussed in private circles and the unofficial members are aware that considerable feeling is felt in certain quarters that whatever may be happening in other departments of the Government service, here at all events there is reason to believe we are very shorthanded. We understand that some representation has been made on the subject, but what form it actually took we are not sure. The question, however, appears to us to be one of great moment seriously affecting, or which may seriously affect, any one in the Colony. In order to satisfy the community that matters in this direction are on a proper footing, we would ask that a small Committee be formed of, say, five Justices of the Peace to go into the whole question as to the supply of nurses in the Government hospitals, their pay, allowances and all other kindred questions relating to the efficiency of this branch of our public service. The unofficial members press this point very strongly and trust that your Excellency will see your way to agree to our request. If not, we would ask that these remarks, which are fully endorsed by all my colleagues, be forwarded to the Secretary of State for the Colonies, as we believe that such an enquiry as we suggest will show that there is need for a change in our nursing system. With regard to the increase of

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pay to the Director of Education and the raising of his post to that of a first class appointment, we are not prepared to express any opinion, but accept the decision of the Government in the matter. We are glad to know that the Government has seriously taken in hand the question of the better control of private schools in the Colony, many of which, we understand, are most inefficient, and some of which are used under cover of schools for organisations which have much more undesirable ends than education. We trust that the new Ordinance which comes into force next year will prove effective. Now, we come to Public Works, page 86. That department is, we all know, the largest spending department in the Colony, the expenditure being 28.7 per cent. of our total revenue. Here, again, there has been a great increase in salaries, somewhere about $50,000. I will take a few items I wish specially to refer to first, and then say what I have to say on the department generally at the end. I have already referred to the cost of building quarters for subordinate officials, which, as matters now go, is unquestionably a sound step to take in the interests of the Government and the Civil Service generally. On page 92 there is a vote of $100,000 for a wireless station. This, as your Excellency is aware, is a matter to which we have given considerable attention for some years past―ever since we found how efficiently a wireless station could be worked―and we very much regret, and are very much disappointed, that another year has been allowed to pass without any use being made of that vote. It was taken out of the 1913 estimates, and again appears in 1914. We trust that you are in a position to give us some assurance that we will not have to pass another typhoon season without this valuable protection to life and property being installed. The correspondence between the Government and the Chamber of Commerce was published in the papers this morning, and I am only sorry I cannot endorse the remark of the Colonial Secretary that "there will be no undue delay in carrying out the work." As long ago as last December the matter was put in hand at Home. Item 11, page 92, asks for a sum for Gaol extension. This is an old question, and it is perhaps almost too late to speak of the removal of the Gaol. Still, I think the question needs the serious consideration of the Government. The present building is very much overcrowded. In my capacity as a visiting Justice I have seen beds put in the alleyway for accommodation, and the yards are small and overcrowded. The site is a very valuable one, and it appears to us that while it might be advisable to retain part of the present gaol for the temporary accommodation of prisoners, the whole question of building a goal in another part of the Colony might be considered. The present site is

probably one of the most valuable in that part of the Colony, and the Government could probably realise a very large sum of money by disposing of that property, which would probably go a long way towards paying for the removal of the gaol elsewhere. On page 93 item 28 is a small thing which is smuggled into the estimates each year, Miscellaneous Works $40,000. We would like a statement from the Director of Public Works as to what that sum represents, and as to how it is to be used. Then there is item 32 for the Tytam reservoir scheme. The original estimate was a little over $2,000,000. It has now been increased by very nearly four lakhs, making $2,400,000. The sum spent on this work last year was disappointingly small, and only $400,000 is put down to be spent this year. We do not feel satisfied in our own minds that this work could not be pushed on more quickly. Only this year we suffered from a serious water famine, and we think that no steps should be omitted in pushing forward the completion of this work at the earliest possible moment. We should also be glad to know when a commencement will be made collecting water for this reservoir, because once completed it will take many years to fill. The question specially referred to by your Excellency a fortnight ago was the cost of this work. It certainly appeared to us―I would not say surprising, because, speaking for myself, I am not surprised at anything which appears in Government estimates―strange that the cost of resumption of the village and cultivated land was omitted. I have referred over and over again to the happy-go-lucky manner in which estimates for public works are yet drawn up, and this is one more instance. As I said on a previous occasion, if any of us carried on work as this section of Government work is carried on we would inevitably be in the Bankruptcy Court before very long. Item 42 deals with the

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typhoon refuge at Mongkoktsui, and I see that half a million is to be spent next year. We shall be glad to have some assurance that within the next twelve months we shall see this work completed. Maybe extra means will have to be found for making the area safer than it is at present, but we should like to know that the original scheme will be completed sometime in 1914. If not, we should like to know why the estimate is to be exceeded, if it is exceeded, and why the small sum of $500,000 is put down. The unofficial members endorse the vote for making a road round the island and roads in the New Territories. They do so more in the interests of the Colony at large than in the interests of the financial magnates to whom your Excellency referred, the owners of motor cars. They think the construction is advisable, both from a police and military put of view, and will be glad to see it undertaken by the Government. There is another old friend which apparently the Public Works Department have forgotten all about, but we have not. I refer to "The Finest Site in the Colony." We know Sir Henry May's views on the subject. He did not propose to spend money on it. To look at it now, it is a disgrace to the Colony. Large sums of money have been expended so that we might have one decent spot in the Colony to look at―Royal Square. While one side of the square is nicely trimmed the other side is covered with weeds, and Their Majesties King Edward and King George are now standing metaphorically speaking, over their ankles in weeds all the time. The site mentioned is surrounded by a crumbly bamboo fence, which ought to be replaced by a stone and iron railing. We know the Governor did not wish to spend money on the site, but that should be done. We hold the opinion that on no consideration should the Government sell that property; it should be retained for Government use. Probably before very long it will be required for Government buildings―a new town hall or an extension of the Law Courts. There was an interesting little work I saw on the table the other day: the Report of the Director of Public Works for last year. In that document I came across the astonishing statement that the roads were maintained in good order throughout the year. I don't think there is anyone outside the Public Works Department, certainly no one outside the Government offices, who has the temerity to say so. The roads are not well maintained. In parts they are a disgrace to any place that calls itself civilised, and in wet weather they are almost impassible. It is now about two years since experiments in tar macadam were made. I see that tar macadam has been in force in Europe and America for a great number of years and I fail to see why our roads should not be similarly treated. Speaking

generally of public works, I can only repeat what I have said on more than one occasion in this Council. The view we take is that the work is far from satisfactory. I know what I say on the subject will fall more or less on deaf ears, will be received with scant consideration and less sympathy, and will probably be forgotten before we leave this room, but I can assure your Excellency that after many years' experience in the Colony, and after watching the growth of the Colony, not only the unofficial members but the general public hold the opinion that there is room for radical reform. We have an opportunity only once a year of criticising the work of Government officials, when the hon. gentleman opposite (the Director of Public Works) favours us with some remarks which are neither convincing nor satisfactory and the department goes on in the same old slipshod, happy go-lucky way. I cannot too strongly impress upon your Excellency―and in speaking as I am doing now I am speaking with the whole Colony at my back; there is no doubt about that― the necessity for improving the unsatisfactory work of this department. More use should be made of the Public Works Committee. That is formed of experienced business men who have had a great deal of practical experience, not only in Hongkong but elsewhere. That brings me to the delay of many public works of which I have spoken. There is the erection of the wireless station. I admit that that is not the fault of the local Government. Still that work should be carried out at once. We are called upon to spend large sums for the Tytam reservoir. Certain works recommended by the Sanitary Board could not be proceeded with because we had not sufficient funds to carry them out, and there is still a large sum to be spent on the typhoon refuge. I consider it would be cheaper if a great deal of this work was carried on and paid for by short loans raised for five or seven years by the Government. It would be better to press on promptly instead of dawdling along.

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With regard to the Post Office, all I have to say is that the irregular manner in which the Siberian mail arrives is really unsatisfactory. I don't know exactly where the fault lies, but I trust that the matter having been referred to here, the Government will again make representations to the Secretary of State calling attention to the improvement which might and ought to be made to this service. With regard to the Kowloon-Canton Railway, the accounts put before us are satisfactory, and I trust they will prove even more so. I hope that here again the Government will make representations to the proper quarter urging on the construction of the line to Wuchang, because until we are linked up with Central Asia our line cannot be expected to pay. I also think our local line should be linked up with the Yuet Han line. I should have mentioned it to your Excellency in the first place, but perhaps I can do so now; I may want to reply to other speeches later, and if so I want to know whether I can reply.

HIS EXCELLENCY―You will be out of order to speak twice.

HON. MR. HEWETT―I am speaking for the unofficial members. To reply I believe it is necessary to move a resolution, and if so I will move a resolution which the senior unofficial member will second, or we can suspend the Standing Orders.

HIS EXCELLENCY―I don't think it will be necessary for you to reply, but if you wish to make further remarks later we will consider it.

HON. MR. SHELLIM―We notice, sir, with much regret, that no provision has been made in the Estimates for public bathing-places. Hon. members will recollect that in May of last year a resolution was carried to the effect that in the opinion of the members of this Council it was desirable to establish bathing places at the Eastern and Western extremities of the town. This resolution was cordially accepted by the Government and the unofficial members were invited to co-operate with them in regard to the matter. In the estimates for 1913 a sum of $2,000 was provided for this purpose. This sum, however, was not expended by the Government, and it was left to private enterprise―the Hongkong Tramway Company ―to carry out the undertaking promised by the Government. In reply to a question a little while back, the Hon. Colonial Secretary very briefly said that the Government did not propose to take any further steps in the matter at present, pending the results of the Tramway Company's efforts. Sir, the experience of

last summer has clearly shown that the experiment has been an unqualified success, and that it distinctly supplies a very long-felt want. In our opinion, it is now incumbent upon the Government to carry out their promise, and I am sure that the Tramway Company will be pleased to meet the Government. The Government should improve the beaches, have the rocks removed, provide life-saving apparatus, and some measure of police protection, and also erect matsheds to afford shelter in the event of rain. I am sure that hon. members of this Council―both official and unofficial―would not grudge the small sum of $2,000, or even $3,000 or $4,000 if necessary, to provide healthy recreation for a very large section of the community.

HON. MR. LANDALE―I feel rather a difficulty about addressing you in connection with these Estimates, as I have been such a short time a member of this Council, but I feel that the unofficial members have a duty to perform to the taxpayers of this Colony, and that they should when necessary criticise the policy of the Government, more particularly in the matter of spending the taxpayers' money. The first matter I would like to refer to is one that has been called attention to by the hon. member who represents the Chamber of Commerce. Shortly after I had the honour of becoming a member of this Council, his Excellency the Governor announced that I had been appointed a member of the Public Works Committee. That, sir, is practically the last I have heard about this Committee. As far as I know, apparently it rarely, if ever, meets, and as far as I know it has not been consulted regarding the very large expenditure on public works which are proposed in this Budget. The unofficial members of this Committee are quite willing to give any such advice and assistance as they can in connection with these public works and regarding such works as the Public Works

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Department undertake, and they do not appreciate the figure-head position which is at present accorded to this Committee, which must originally have been created for some useful purpose. There are a few matters I would like to mention. There is an item of $33,000 for a repairing and coaling yard for Government launches. I know of nowhere where repairs of all descriptions of vessels can be effected more economically than in one or two of the many dockyards and repairing houses in Hongkong. If it is the intention of the Government to set up a repairing yard of their own, which must necessarily be under European supervision, I think they are taking a very expensive way of repairing their launches. I think this contract should continue to be put up for tender. I would also like to point out that I do not find any provision in the Estimates for the removal of the hill which at present blocks Nathan Road. Apparently a portion of the hill is being removed to the reclamation works at Yaumati, but at the present rate of progress it will be many years before this important thoroughfare can be opened up. It is, sir, a very shortsighted policy. It is close to many building sites which the Government might sell, and which are now lying idle. I cordially agree with the hon. member who represents the Chamber of Commerce in regard to the Gaol extension. The centre of a town is no place for a gaol, and it is not possible to employ prisoners at any remunerative work unless the prison and the surrounding yards have sufficient space. I think it would be better to sell the old site, and remove the gaol to the outskirts of the town, or to Kowloon. The question of raising loans for the Public Works Department has also been mentioned by the hon. member for the Chamber of Commerce. I am very strongly of opinion that this is the only fair and business-like way of financing the many works which are contemplated in this Budget, such as the wireless telegraphy installation, which I am sure will be very shortly commenced, the gaol extension, the waterworks, and the typhoon refuge. If this method of financing these works were adopted, we should be in a very much better position. It would hardly have been necessary to levy the liquor taxes at all. I always understood that they were originally levied in order to replace the opium revenue, which we suppose will shortly be lost to the Colony. We should have sufficient money to repair the roads which are open to wheel traffic. I do not think that anybody who drives on these roads can agree with the Director of Public Works that they are in a satisfactory condition. You have only to drive on them to find that that is not so. In Hongkong the heavy carts seem to think that the tramway tracks were laid especially for them. The motor-car has to wend its way through this slow

traffic and the drivers are very apt to be blamed for any accident that might take place. We should have had enough money to colourwash the interior of Mountain Lodge, and we should not be in the painful position of seeing our Governor living in a house which is not in a proper state of repair. There is only one other matter which I would wish to call attention to, and that is the losses on subsidiary coinage. This appears to me to be incurred without any scheme for rehabilitating the coinage. We cannot, of course, divest ourselves of the responsibility for what those who have gone before us have done, but although it is a difficult task I do not think it is an impossible task for the Government, with the assistance of the local Banks, to restore this coinage to its proper value. I would rather see money spent in having accomplished this restoration, than, as at present, without making any appreciable improvement in the state of affairs. I do not think any British coin should be allowed to remain at a discount.

HON. MR. LAU CHU PAK―In connection with the extension of Tytam Reservoir, I would like to add a few words on behalf of the Chinese residents, particularly those living in the rider main districts. They think, sir, that their wants have not received the attention they deserve from the Government. During the last two years they have been reduced to a famished state for want of water. I have often heard them say that although they pay their share of the rates and taxes as other residents, they are left to fight for their daily supply of water in the streets. Many of them run the risk of falling and breaking their limbs, and are open to other dangers in carrying water up high and steep stairs, and no small number of families whose women cannot join in the struggle for water in the streets, like starving beggars, are compelled to resort to coolie labour, which they cannot afford to pay for. They earnestly hope that their wants will

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be given the attention they merit, and that the extension work will be pushed on with all possible speed. So long as that work is delayed, their hardship continues.

THE DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS―Sir, with reference to what has fallen from hon. members on the subject of public works, it may be fitting that I should make some reply. In the first place, dealing with the statement of my hon. friend opposite, I would say that the provision for subordinate officers' quarters in the estimates includes nothing in the shape of accommodation for opium searchers or any employees of that description. The quarters are intended to accommodate overseers of the Public Works Department, sanitary inspectors and a few other men of that class. He made some general reference to the increase in expenditure on the establishment of the Public Works Department. The recent adoption of a lower rate of exchange for the conversion of salaries has, of course, resulted in an increase in payments generally throughout the service, and in the case of the Public Works Department it comes to a very considerable amount. Then there were grave complaints about the remuneration of overseers in the Department and a revised system of payment was introduced, which again results in a considerable increase. In addition to that, there are additions to the staff which are necessary in order to cope with the greatly enlarged programme before the Council. The question of the removal of the Gaol to another site is not one falling within my purview, but I am rather doubtful if a portion of the present site became available for sale that it would prove to be quite the gold mine my hon. friend has indicated. He referred to Miscellaneous Works and asked information regarding the $40,000 which appears in the estimates. In the current year's estimates a sum of $30,000 appears, and already supplement-any votes totalling, $12,200 have been taken in this Council to meet the requirements that arose under this heading. There is a stream of works which are unforeseen―certainly no Director of Public Works could foresee them―because they come in wholesale from all departments, and this annual amount is provided for meeting such works. My hon. friend alluded to the Tytam Tuk works, and seemed to express the opinion that progress was not so great as it ought to be. At the present stage a deep channel is being cut through a solid mass of rock: the area of operations is necessarily restricted, and no work on other portions of the main dam can be undertaken till that has been completed and the diversion of the stream has been carried out. That portion of the work is now reaching the finished level, and when the necessary concrete has been deposited and the culvert has been constructed, then I trust that better progress will be made on the remaining portion of the dam, but until that elementary portion has been carried out, the rest cannot be proceeded with. He

alluded to the careless, slip-shod way in which estimates were prepared, and to the amount of the item for compensation. The item for compensation amounts to $6,500, which represents a very small amount in proportion to the total cost of the work. But it has been customary in connection with public works to defray the cost of such resumptions from other sources, and in the case of the Central Market, the Western Market and other large works, the estimate for such works did not make any provision for the cost of resumptions entailed. He expressed the hope that the typhoon refuge would be completed in 1914. It does not appear that the statement and diagrams submitted to this Council periodically every half-year have been of any great service, because, in each of them it will be found that the time allowed for the completion of the work is five years, and of that period nearly three years has now elapsed, consequently there are two years left in which the contractor has to complete his contract. The work has been proceeded with in a very expeditious manner, but the concluding operations will necessarily be somewhat more slow than those which have taken place up to the present time. The setting of the concrete facing blocks, one by one, and the depositing of 5-ton blocks of stone with the aid of divers are slow operations. His remarks on "the finest site" do not concern me, because whatever instructions I receive from the Government in the matter I will be only too pleased to carry out. The place as it exists now is in accordance with the instructions I have received. The hon. member made some disparaging remarks and so did my hon. friend on the left (Hon. Mr. Landale), on the condition of the roads, but I cannot think that the condition of the roads deserves the strictures that fell from them when compared with roads elsewhere. I maintain that they are, speak-

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ing generally, in good condition. At the same time, if the Colony wish their roads to be paved in some different manner, and maintained in better condition, well, they have just simply to put up the money for it, and it will be done. Again, my hon. friend alluded to the whole Colony being behind him when he stated that public works were carried out in a manner far from satisfactory. Well, sir, I challenge that statement. From remarks I have heard from residents in the Colony, and from visitors to the Colony, I consider that the public works of this Colony will bear comparison with any public works anywhere else in the world. Certainly visitors to our shores are loud in their admiration of the way in which the Colony is maintained. I do not intend to arrogate to myself any special credit for that state of affairs, because when I came here I was very much struck myself with the public works, and the manner in which the works generally were executed and maintained, and I have simply tried to carry on the traditions of the Department in that respect. My hon. friend immediately on my left (Hon. Mr. Shellim) referred to the question of public bathing places, but that is a matter on which I need not comment. With regard to the remarks of my hon. friend (Hon. Mr. Landale) about the reference of matters to the Public Works Committee, my instructions are that only such matters with regard to which the Governor gives special directions should be referred to the Public Works Committee. I will be only too delighted to consult them whenever I have his Excellency's instructions to do so in connection with any matter. The repairing yard for Government launches at Kowloon is merely substituting for the existing yard a new yard elsewhere. There will be a little extra accommodation which does not exist in the present yard, but it will not be of any substantial amount. Certainly I do not imagine that the whole repairing of launches is contemplated in this yard, because in the plans no provision is made for any engineering workshops or matters of that description. I am not well acquainted with what the actual works carried on in such a yard are, but I imagine they are largely confined to the cleaning and painting of launches. With regard to the removal of the hill which blocks the continuation of Nathan Road, the work so far has been executed free of cost. It includes the removal of a great mass of rock and earth which would be very costly, and it has been found expedient to leave such work to be carried out by the parties who require to obtain material for reclamation or other purposes. When these purposes have been fully served, the completion of the removal will doubtless be taken in hand. My hon. friend also made some allusion to carts using the tramway tracks. That is a rather troublesome point. The tracks usurp

the best part of the road, and naturally all traffic wants to use the best part of the road, so unless strict action is taken by the police authorities there will be a difficulty in preventing that. It was also suggested that funds might be forthcoming to have public works carried on on the loan principle, instead of paying for them out of the revenue. Likewise, it was stated that we might find funds to colourwash the interior of "Mountain Lodge." That is a matter with which I quite agree, but the interior of "Mountain Lodge" at present is all painted. When the proposal for painting it was raised I pointed out objections to this, and stated that I did not think that painting would be suitable for the interior of a residence in such a position, and the result seems to justify my opinion. And I do not consider that painting in such a place will last. Certainly, if it is to be maintained, then there must be an army of coolies continually washing it down to prevent the growth of mould on it. The hon. member at the end of the table (Hon. Mr. Lau Chu Pak) made allusion to the suffering of the people in the rider main districts occasioned by the short supply of water. I quite sympathise with him, but I would remind him that not many years ago the Chinese petitioned to have the rider main system introduced, and an Ordinance was specially passed to provide for its introduction. I trust that, with the new works in progress, in about two years from the present time we will be able to obtain an adequate supply of water from our waterworks.

THE COLONIAL TREASURER―The hon. member for the Chamber of Commerce made reference to certain items under the head of revenue, of which I propose to give some explanation. In the first place, with regard to forfeitures, the estimated increase under this head for 1914 is $20,000. I think, sir, that this is largely

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due to the measures we are taking now for the suppression of morphine and cocaine. The import to and export of this from the Colony was previously allowed with certain restrictions, but now it is altogether prohibited. Experience shows that very considerable fees have come in under this head. With regard to the increase on stamp duties, this is due, no doubt, partly to the employment of a detective to see that the law is properly carried out; it is also partly due to the reorganisation of the Probate department in the Registry of the Supreme Court. It is now hoped that the revenue due from probate will be more regularly collected. With regard to the increase of revenue on pawnbrokers' licences from $88,600 to $104,300, I think my hon. friend was wrong in saying that this shows bad trade. I think on the contrary it shows good trade, and when trade is good more is to be expected from pawnbrokers. With regard to the question of subsidiary coinage, I explained at the Finance Committee meeting held after the last Council meeting the reason why we had a vote of $60,000 in the present year, and the vote has now risen to $136,000. I think the Government's policy has been consistent during the last three years. We took in all we got as revenue, $130,000 in ten cent pieces, and sent these back to England to be demonetised. By so doing, and with the assistance of the Subsidiary Coinage Ordinance which comes into force next year, we hope to reduce the stock and bring what remains to par.

HIS EXCELLENCY―I have listened to the speech of the hon. gentlemen who spoke first with great interest, and I may also say with considerable satisfaction, because their criticisms were not devoted so much to the actual estimates which were before us as to particular principles of government in this Colony, some of which the unofficial members appear to wish to have altered. I take it from the fact that their speeches referred to principles, and not so much to the actual estimates, that the estimates meet with their approval. The hon. member for the Chamber of Commerce made an attack on the public works of the Colony which I cannot pass without a strong protest. I have had experience of public works in other parts of the Empire, and I entirely disagree with him as to the inadequacy of the public works, or the method of carrying them out, in this Colony. I consider the public works of the Colony as good as those I have seen anywhere, and in some cases better, but as regards the roads there is still considerable room for improvement. The explanation of that is very simple. In this Colony up till now we have been living on the sides of a rock sloping down considerably to the sea, and there has been no

necessity for making roads or maintaining them. But I look forward now to a time when there will be better levelling and a great improvement in surfacing. The Director of Public Works, who is at the head of this great spending department, is a most valuable public servant of whom I have had experience now for nearly two years. The hon. member who represents the Chamber of Commerce also drew attention to the increase in rent derived from public buildings. When putting up public buildings which are not yet fully occupied, it is only to our advantage to let them, and we expect to get $49,000 next year from rents, instead of $21,000. The principle of tendering, which he also animadverted on, is, of course, a well-established principle in the service, and I do not think the Government would, if they could, depart from that principle. The increase in staff and departments has been watched very carefully, and the Government will continue to watch it very carefully. With the growth of population and the growth of revenue and expenditure it is impossible to avoid a certain increase, but I think hon. members may take it that the Government will watch this with the very greatest possible care, and possibly reorganisation from time to time may lead to a saving of public money. As I explained, permanent buildings are not going to be erected in connection with the opium monopoly. The buildings which have to be put up will be of a more or less temporary nature. With regard to the revision of the Ordinances, I may tell the hon. member that the Secretary of State has approved of the recognition of Mr. Alabaster's services, in a manner which is entirely satisfactory to him. The hospital sisters is a subject with which I am in great sympathy. The matter will receive consideration during the coming year, but I am not able to make any definite statement on the subject at present. I don't think, however, it will be necessary to appoint a Committee as proposed by the hon. member who represents the Chamber of Commerce, but it

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is a matter which on the return of the Governor will be considered very carefully. The proposal he has made will be specially mentioned when the estimates go to the Secretary of State. The taking over of the vernacular schools is a very important move on the part of the Government, and a very necessary one. It was only suggested about the middle of last year, and I went on the knowledge of the country I came from, where they have always been under the control of the Government with very great success. On the subject of the Siberian mails, I think it is extraordinary how long they sometimes take to get here, and the question will have to be very carefully considered. With regard to the Kowloon-Canton Railway, I am glad to say that the receipts are very satisfactory, but until that happy day when we join up with the Canton-Hankow Railway they will never amount to a very large sum. Only to-day the manager informed me that his receipts were larger than they had ever been before and showed signs of increasing. With regard to bathing places, to which the hon. member on my left (Hon. Mr. Shellim) referred, I certainly wished they could be made and looked after by the Government, but I understand the investigations made as to what was considered a suitable place did not result very satisfactorily, because in one place the beach, which was thought to be a sandy beach, was found to be only a veneer of sand, with something very unpleasant underneath, while another place was of a rocky nature, and the tide ran so strongly that it would not have been suitable without a cordon of boats around it. The hon. member also referred to the great success of the evenings organised by the Tramway Company. I am told they formed pleasant social gatherings, but the number of people who entered the water was extremely small, probably a fraction of one per cent. of those present. Much as I sympathise with it and desire to see suitable bathing places brought into the reach of everyone, it is not such an easy subject to deal with as is supposed. I do not know if any other matter is left that has not been already dealt with. I may say that the question of the wireless installation is one to which I cannot refer, but I can assure you that nothing is being done to prevent its erection at the earliest possible moment. I have listened to the speeches of hon. members with great interest, and their remarks will be forwarded to the proper quarter in due course.

The motion, on being put to the meeting, was carried.

HIS EXCELLENCY―Council adjourns till this day week.

FINANCE COMMITTEE.

——

A meeting of the Finance Committee was then held, the COLONIAL SECRETARY presiding. The following votes were passed:―

The Officer Administering the Government recommended the Council to vote a sum of $500 in aid of the vote Botanical and Forestry Department, Other Charges, Forestry, New Territories.

The Officer Administering the Government recommended etc., a sum of $12,512 in aid of the votes:―

Sanitary Department

Personal Emoluments.

Temporary House Allowances to

Sanitary Inspectors ..........................$ 4,875 Other Charges.

Uniform for Staff ................................. 312 Public Works Department.

Personal Emoluments.

Temporary House Allowances to

overseers and Land Bailiffs ........... 7,325 ———

Total ................................... $12,512

———

Public Works

The Officer Administering the Government recommended the Council to vote a sum of $5,450 in aid of the vote Public Works:―

Public Works, Recurrent.

Kowloon.

Miscellaneous.

Maintenance of Praya Walls and

Piers ................................................. $ 250

Public Works, Extraordinary.

New Territories.

Miscellaneous.

Shamshuipo―Reclamation Scheme

to provide sites for lessees

dislodged from old Village ............ $5,200 ———

Total ................................... $5,450

———

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Hongkong Volunteer Corps

The Officer Administering the Government recommended the Council to vote a sum of $7,456 in aid of the vote Military Expenditure, B.―Volunteers, Special Expenditure, Equipments.

THE CHAIRMAN explained that this vote was for uniforms and equipment for the Volunteers and Reserves.

HON. MR. HEWETT―I thought the idea was that the Volunteer Reserves were not to wear uniforms.

THE CHAIRMAN―That was the original idea, but the system has been reorganised entirely within the last two years. I think some of the members wanted uniforms, and that the Governor induced others to join by promising them uniforms. Some people like uniforms, but I don't.

HON. MR. HEWETT ―Are you not in the Reserves?

THE CHAIRMAN―I am over age.

Botanical and Forestry Department

The Officer Administering the Government recommended the Council to vote a sum of $800 in aid of the vote Botanical and Forestry Department, Other Charges, Maintenance of Gardens and Grounds.

Public Works Department

The Officer Administering the Government recommended the Council to vote a sum of $5,300 in aid of the vote Public Works, Recurrent. Communications, Maintenance of Roads and Bridges in City.

The Appropriation Bill

The Appropriation Bill was then amended in accordance with the Chairman's remarks in Council, and approved.

———————