1912-04-15 — Page 1

20 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. 15TH APRIL, 1912.

PRESENT:―

HIS EXCELLENCY THE OFFICER ADMINISTERING THE GOVERNMENT, HON. MR. CLAUD SEVERN.

HON. MR. C. CLEMENTI (Colonial Secretary).

HON. MR. REES DAVIES, K.C. (Attorney General).

HON. MR. A. M. THOMSON (Colonial Treasurer).

HON. MR. W. CHATHAM, C.M.G. (Director of Public Works).

HON. MR. E. R. HALLIFAX (Registrar General.)

HON. CAPT. F. J. BADELEY (Captain Superintendent of Police).

HON. MR. WEI YUK, C.M.G.

HON. MR. H. E. POLLOCK, K.C.

HON. MR. E. A. HEWETT, C.M.G.

HON. MR. C. H. ROSS.

HON. MR. E. OSBORNE.

MR. R. H. CROFTON (Clerk of Councils). Minutes

The minutes of the previous meeting were read and approved.

Financial

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY, by command of His Excellency the Officer Administering the Government, laid on the table the Report of the Finance Committee (No. 2), and moved its adoption.

THE COLONIAL TREASURER seconded, and the motion was agreed to.

Papers

MONG KOK TSUI BREAKWATER AND

TYPHOON REFUGE

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY laid on the table a statement and diagram shewing progress of work to 31st December, 1911.

Financial Minutes

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY, by command of His Excellency the Officer Administering the Government, laid on the table Financial Minutes No. 14 to 18, and moved that they be referred to the Finance Committee.

THE COLONIAL TREASURER seconded.

HON. MR. HEWETT―Your Excellency, with regard to Financial Minute No. 16, as I have already privately pointed out to your Excellency, I propose to oppose this vote, and I would rather make such remarks as I have to make in the full Council than in Finance Committee. The vote before us is for £37 0s. 9d. under the head "Pension for Chief Justice." The unofficial members of the Legislative Council have not as yet been officially informed of the details of this proposed vote, but I find from personal inquiries made that most, it not all, of the unofficial members are fully acquainted with the details of the case. This, I understand, practically amounts to a permanent increase in the pension of the Chief Justice over and above the pension to which he is entitled under the terms of his service in the Government. The sum in itself does not seem to be a very large one. We are asked now to vote £37. 0s. 9d. to this additional vote for the year 1912. The Chief Justice retires at the end of this month, conse-quently the additional vote asked for is presumably for two thirds of the year. Having once admitted the principle that this official is entitled by the special vote of the Legislature to a larger pension than he would be if he retired under ordinary conditions, and had received the ordinary pension to which he is entitled by service and the pay drawn during the term of his service, if we once pass this vote we practically confirm a permanent increase to the pension of the Chief Justice. Having once passed this vote, we will be then called upon to pass a vote of £50 or £60

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. 21

a year for the rest of the lifetime of the Chief Justice, which we trust will be many, many years. Your Excellency, the point I wish to make is this, that the vote is being suddenly put before the Legislature Council, and we are asked to increase the pension of the second highest paid official in the Colony, who has only served here for seven years, by per cent., that is to say,

1 12

2

this official, if he retired from the service on his sixtieth birthday, as I understand he is doing, would be entitled to something like £450 from the Hongkong Colony, but he is retiring after only eighteen years' service in the Government employ, with a pension considerably over £700 a year―a pension something like double that of a Colonel, who often serves forty years and risks his life for his country. This official, I repeat, has only been in the Colony seven years, and in the Government service 18 years, yet is retiring on a pension considerably over £700 a year. We are now asked to increase his pension by over twelve per cent. We all know perfectly well that any of us entitled to retire on a pension would be very glad indeed on retiring, instead of getting twelve monthly payments, to get thirteen and a half. This is what we are practically asked to do. We are asked to increase his pension by close on £60 a year. I cannot conceive any sound reason why this vote should be passed. I certainly am,

in one single instance, go outside the four corners of the liberal allowance in the Civil Service rules. Yet here we are asked to break from these rules for the one official who, next to the Governor himself, should be the last person to ask for an increase in his pension, and saddle the ratepayers of Hongkong with a sum of £60 a year, simply because we are asked to do so. I know perfectly well the arguments which will be brought forward, and I am therefore more or less prepared for some of them. It will probably be said that if this official had served a few months longer he would have deserved this vote. On the other hand, for reasons best known to himself, this official did not join the Service until eighteen years ago. Most of the Chief Justices who served in the Colony were men who probably spent thirty, or even forty, years in the Government service. This official only joined late in life, when it suited him. Another argument is, that, having taken up this position when he did, he found this sixty years' age limit forced upon him. I do not admit that argument for a moment. Outside of Hongkong and one or two other Colonies, the sixty years' age limit has been in force in most of the British Colonies for a number of years. To suggest that it is a hardship for him to fall within the four corners of this new rule is absurd. Looking at the fact

on principle, very strongly opposed to it.

that we are asked annually to give practically

1 13

2

Whatever arguments for or against may be brought forward, I would ask your Excellency to be good enough to pass the discussion on this vote direct to the Secretary of State. We have a very large Civil Service in Hongkong, and by far the greater number are subordinate officials, many of them with thirty, thirty-five or even forty years' service in this Colony to their credit. If any of these subordinate officials brought forward arguments or a mathematical problem by which he showed that, if he retired a little

payments instead of the twelve to which he is entitled, in view of his high position and large salary, and from the few years he has served in the Colony, I think it would be a wrong principle to break away from the rules of the Civil Service regarding pensions, and make this grant which, I am perfectly certain, if it had been brought forward by a subordinate official of this Colony would have been turned down. I strongly protest against this vote. I told your Excellency that it would be better if the discussion took place in

later, he would be entitled to an increase of

1 12

2

the full Council instead of at the Committee meeting. I beg, therefore, to move the rejection

per cent. to his pension, I am sure the Government would not consider his application favourably. If, however, these subordinate officials saw their way clear to obtain an increase, if any opening was given them to obtain it, they would certainly try their best to get it. In all these years in Hongkong, I have never seen such an application come before the Legislative Council of Hongkong. It is due, sir, largely to his persistence and, I may say, to his excessive importunity, that this vote has come so far. I think the principle is thoroughly unsound. It is wrong that the Legislative Council should,

of this vote.

HIS EXCELLENCY―Does any one second the motion?

HON. MR. HEWETT―I don't know, sir.

HON. MR. OSBORNE―As a matter of form, I beg to second it.

22 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

HIS EXCELLENCY ― Does any member wish to address the Council?

HON. MR. POLLOCK―Sir, I can't agree with what has fallen from my hon. friend opposite who represents the Chamber of Commerce. I think, sir, the circumstances in this particular case are very exceptional. There is no doubt that if the learned Chief Justice had served a few months longer he would have been entitled to the extra pension which it is proposed to vote to him. I think there would be no doubt also that in the normal course of events as they would have occurred in the circumstances which existed when he came to the Colony that the learned Chief Justice would have served these few extra months and that he would have earned this additional pension. But, sir, as the hon. member opposite has pointed out, since the learned Judge arrived in this Colony a special Ordinance has been passed enabling certain officials of this Colony to be retired at the age of 60, and if that Ordinance had not been passed since this appointment was taken up, the Chief Justice would without doubt have served the additional three months and earned the pension. I quite agree with my hon. friend opposite as to the danger of creating a precedent, but I think the circumstances of this particular case are quite exceptional, and in the circumstances this vote should be passed by the Council.

HON. MR. ROSS―I generally listen to the hon. member for the Chamber of Commerce with respect, but on this occasion I cannot agree with him at all. I think he is allowing his ideas of principle to override his sense of justice. The Chief Justice, as I understand, came here under certain rules, and if these rules still existed he would have been entitled to this pension a few months hence. A change, however, has been made in the rules, but that is not his fault, and I do not see why he should suffer thereby. I would like to support everything which my hon. and learned friend (Mr. Pollock) has just said.

HIS EXCELLENCY ― Before putting the amendment which has been proposed by the hon. member who represents the Chamber of Commerce, I would like to inform the Council that the reason which weighed with the Government was not that if this Ordinance had not been passed he would have been entitled to the pension which is proposed. One of the

reasons which had actuated the Government in proposing this increase to the pension of Sir Francis Piggott was the following: It is the usual custom in the public service to grant an officer three months' leave on full salary prior to his retirement. This has the effect of increasing his period of service by three months and in many cases it has the effect of increasing the number of years of his pension by one year, thereby enabling in many cases a considerable addition to be made to the pension which is calculated upon the basis of a certain salary. In the case of Sir Francis Piggott, it has not been possible to grant him leave on full pay, but if the three months to which I have referred had been given in his case it would have had the effect of increasing his pension by the sum for which the Government is now asking, namely, £55 11s. 2d. That weighed with the Government, and the further fact that this case will not be taken as a precedent has led the Government to recommend to the Council the grant of this extra sum. I will now put the amendment of the hon. member to the vote.

HON. MR. HEWETT―I would like to ask a poll on this question.

HON. MR. POLLOCK―On a point of order, this is not an amendment which is moved by my hon. friend, but a direct negative.

HIS EXCELLENCY―It is an amendment to the motion.

HON. MR. HEWETT―I was informed last week that it would be in order if I brought the matter forward in the particular way in which I have done.

THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL―I submit it is an amendment. It is an amendment proper to the original motion.

HON. MR. OSBORNE ― With your Excellency's permission, I would like to remark that when I came into the room I had a perfectly open mind on this subject, and I seconded the motion purely as a matter of form. Having heard the arguments on both sides, I shall not vote in favour of the amendment.

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. 23

The vote was then taken, the Hon. Mr. Hewett alone supporting the amendment, which was thus defeated by 11 votes to 1.

Winding Up of Companies

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY, by comof His Excellency the Officer Administering the Government, laid on the table Rules made by the Chief Justice under section 220 of the Companies Ordinance, 1911, as to fees payable in respect of the winding up of companies. He added ― The matter is urgent. The Official Receiver is concerned with the winding up of companies and no provision has been made for his remuneration. I move that the rules be approved.

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded, and the motion was agreed to.

The Finest Site in the Colony

HON. MR. POLLOCK asked the following questions standing in his name:―

With reference to the matshed, which is being put up on the plot of land to the West of the Hongkong Club, will the Honourable the Director of Public Works state:―

(1.) Who is erecting the said matshed;

(2.) For what purpose the said matshed is being erected and subject to what terms and conditions;

(3.) For what reason the said matshed contains two stories;

(4.) Whether any rent is to be paid by anybody, and, if so, by whom, for the use and occupation of the said matshed;

(5.) Whether it is intended that any, and, if so, how many, coolies and/or workmen should be housed in the said matshed, and for what reason or reasons;

(6.) If the said matshed is being erected in connection with the carrying out of any Public Work, what is the nature of such Public Work, and what is the contract-time and contract-price for the completion of the same;

(7.) Why are bricks being piled up on the ground to the North of the said matshed?

THE DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS

replied as follows:―

(1.) The shed is being erected by Kang On, contractor.

(2.) The matshed is being erected as a shelter for workmen who will be employed in dressing stone in connection with the contract for the erection of railings to enclose the areas to be laid out as gardens. The permit issued is for the period ending 30th instant. It will be renewed as required. The permit is for one large shed to be used as a shelter and three small sheds for office, kitchen and latrine purposes. The sides of the large shed towards Connaught Road and the Hongkong Club are to be close-boarded and the remaining sides are to be open. The only condition is that these sheds may not be used for habitation.

(3.) No permission has been given for the erection of a two-storied shed. Before these questions reached me the Contractor had been instructed to remove the super-structure intended for an upper storey.

(4.) No rent is to be paid.

(5.) No coolies or workmen will be allowed to live in the shed, but this does not apply to watchmen.

(6.) The first part of this question has been answered above. Contract time 7 months from 4th March, 1912. The amount of the contract is $11,286.25.

(7.) The bricks are for building kitchen and latrine for the workmen.

The Badge of the Colony

The Council then considered the following resolution standing in the name of the Colonial Secretary:―

Resolved that the existing badge of the Colony is not only inartistic but it is unsuitable for reproduction especially on flags, etc., and resolved therefore that the design laid on the table, being both simpler and more artistic, be substituted therefor on a date to be hereafter notified in the Government Gazette.

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY―Sir, when the resolution which stands in my name was discussed in this Council

24 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

on the 28th of last December, Sir F. Lugard decided to postpone a vote upon it in the hope that, although the design which I had the honour to lay upon this table on 21st of that month did not commend itself to my unofficial friends in this Chamber, residents in the Colony might have an opportunity of suggesting new designs which might meet with general favour. As a fact a young lady now resident in Hongkong did design a new badge. It consisted of a naval anchor and a Chinese grapnel crossed underneath the Imperial British Crown. The design was simple and artistic. Sir F. Lugard approved it, and by his direction the design was circulated for the inspection of all members of the Executive and Legislative Councils. Hon. members, however, decided by a majority of 8 to 5 that the existing badge of the Colony should be retained and that it was undesirable to change it. I confess that this decision was a great surprise to me. and before accepting it as final I would like to give hon. members a short account of the origin of the existing badge as recorded in the archives of my department. It would appear that in the spring of 1869. the Crown Agents for the Colonies approached an oilman at Wapping with the request that he would design a badge for the Colonial flag of Hongkong. An economical bargain was driven and for a fee of some £3 the existing badge of the Colony was painted. It was then set in a blue ensign and sent out to Hongkong as the flag of the Colony. Local opinion was not consulted, and it seems that the artistic feelings of the community received a rude shock when the new flag was first unfurled. The then Governor, Sir Richard Graves Macdonnell, brought the matter before his Executive Council, which had no hesitation in recording the opinion that the flag was "both in design and execution extremely defective." Accordingly Sir Richard on the 3rd July, 1869, addressed a protest to Lord Granville, at that time Secretary of State for the Colonies. He wrote:―"As the design seems to have been compiled by an oilman at Wapping for about £3, a specimen of the highest art could not well have been looked for. Apart, however, from the abstract merits of the flag, it is the wish of the Council and of every one who has expressed an opinion here on the subject, that your Lordship should direct some fresh and more suitable design to be substituted. It has been suggested that in lieu of the gentleman in an evening coat who is purchasing tea on the beach at Kowloon, an unusual place for such transactions, it would

be more agreeable to the feelings of the community if the foreground were occupied by the wellknown figure of Britannia with the British Lion lying beside her and near the British flag. It is suggested that in such case the shield might bear either the motto Caelum non animum mutant or the Royal Arms, as your Lordship might decide. I admit that in the design of the enclosed flag there is a certain unpleasant resemblance to a portion of the present arms of the Colony, but I respectfully submit that the opportunity is not unfavourable for considering whether the Arms themselves now borne on the seal of the Colony are not capable of improvement. That, however, which is appropriate on the smaller surface of the seal seems quite unsuitable to the larger field of the flag." Again on the 27th December, 1869, Sir Richard wrote to Lord Granville:―"The flag at present assigned to the Colony is capable of great and easy improvement, and in fact that it is wholly unsuitable, as the device, though not strikingly out of good taste when put on a medal or a seal, becomes obviously so when occupying the larger field of a flag. Such at least is the opinion of myself and my Council as well as of every one else whom I have hitherto heard speaking on the subject. I have even referred the matter again to my Council, and they unanimously recommend a change of the device in the flag to something of the same idea and character as that which I ventured to submit to your Lordship in my despatch No. 734 of July last." He added, "I may say that, however pleased we might be to obtain a flag with a more tasteful device, our principal object is to get rid of that which at present appears to be decidedly obnoxious." On the 5th May, 1870, Lord Granville replied:―"I have the honour to inform you that not being satisfied with the designs for a Colonial Flag for Hongkong which have been submitted to me, I have decided that the best course will be to adopt for use in the Colony a pattern somewhat similar to that which has been selected by the Governor of New Zealand, viz.: a blue ensign with a white crown over the initial letters of the Colony. The Crown Agents have been informed of my decision, and in accordance

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. 25

with it will forward a supply of flags of that pattern for the service of the Government of Hongkong." Then for some reason which cannot be traced in my archives the whole matter appears suddenly to have fallen into abeyance. The new flags were never sent out and the existing flag remained as an enduring witness to the artistic standards of Wapping. That, sir, is the history of our present badge. In 1869 the Governor, the Executive Council, the Community of Hongkong and the Secretary of State for the Colonies agreed in condemning the badge which had been foisted upon us willy nilly by the then Crown Agents. If it is the case to-day that a complete volte face has taken place, and that the community has at last educated itself up to Wapping standards of fine art, then I have no more to say and I can only beg for leave to withdraw the resolution now standing in my name. But I find it hard to believe that this is so, for I am reluctant to think that it is only a minority in this Council to-day which agrees with the Council of 1869 in considering the existing badge "decidedly obnoxious." I do not at the moment press for the adoption of any particular new design, but I do press for an expression of opinion by this Council that the existing badge is extremely defective both in design and in execution and that a fresh and more suitable design should be substituted for it.

HIS EXCELLENCY―Does the hon. member for Kowloon wish to speak?

HON. MR. OSBORNE ― No, sir, I have nothing to say except to echo the words of the Colonial Secretary. I do not pretend even to the artistic temperament of Wapping, but I do think that the conglomeration of bale goods, junk masts, the Peak and various other articles in the present flag are certainly inartistic and difficult to reproduce. There is a want of dignity about it, sir, and I consider that it would be improved if the Colonial Secretary's resolution were adopted by this Council.

HON. MR. C. H. ROSS― I opposed this resolution on the last occasion when it came up, and I did so, not because I admire the present badge, but because I have a great respect for antiquity. The Hon. Colonial Secretary just now has said that if we continue our present flag, we will be upholding that which the Legislative Council of 1869 disapproved. That is some

forty-three years ago, a considerable space of time. I do not think the present badge is artistic, but still it has the dignity of age, and with a small improvement, as I suggested on the last occasion, such as an artistic pagoda or a junk, with the Peak in the background, would meet the case. Two anchors crossed are certainly very pretty, but I do not see what connection they have with Hongkong.

HON. MR. HEWETT―With regard to what my hon. friend, the last speaker, has said, I entirely endorse his proposal. When the question came up in the Council, I played a lone hand, as it were, in opposing any change. I admit that when the flag was invented it might have been more artistic, but it was descriptive of Hongkong as it was shortly after the flag was hoisted here. I do not think any unhallowed hand should be allowed to tear down any monument of those historic days. It is said that the old design of the Peak on the shield is inartistic. That I refuse to admit. Any of us who have seen a Hongkong bank note will see that it makes quite a good steel engraving. The Hon. the Colonial Secretary has laid great stress on the fact that in ancient days, in 1869, certain officials and unofficials appeared to agree that the flag was inartistic, but he has produced nothing later to show that the flag is inartistic. What we know is that the whole world has advanced very much in artistic training, and whereas in 1869 the whole of the Council might have been opposed to the artistic merits of the flag, we have been so far educated that we find the great proportion of the present Council in favour of the flag as it stands. No proposal has been put forward which in any way compares with the old flag. With regard to the remarks made by my hon. friend on my right, I must say that I have never yet discovered any suggestion of a tramway on the flag, and I have been a resident in the Colony for thirty years.

HIS EXCELLENCY―I must say that I am not enamoured of the present badge of the Colony; it came out three months before I was born. It has, therefore, the merit of antiquity to which the hon.

26 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

member referred just now. The difficulty is that we cannot get a sufficient number of members to agree to any particular design, and therefore I am afraid we shall have to stick to the present one.

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY―I beg leave to withdraw the resolution.

General Revison Ordinance,

1912

THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL moved the first reading of a Bill entitled, "An Ordinance for promoting the General Revision of the Law by repealing certain enactments which have ceased to be in force or have become unnecessary, by amending certain other enactments which stand in urgent need thereof, and by incorporating certain amending Ordinances in their respective principal Ordinances, and for repealing Ordinance No. 49 of 1911, and replacing it by a new Ordinance." This General Revision Ordinance has been introduced because many defects were discovered by the editor in going through the old Ordinance. A considerable number of further amendments have been found to be necessary during the progress of the revision. Owing to the exigencies of printing it has been necessary to introduce this Ordinance so as to liberate the type.

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded, and the Bill was read a first time.

THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL ― Following precedent, I beg leave to move that the Standing Orders be suspended in order to admit of this Bill being passed through its various stages at this meeting.

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded, and the motion was agreed to.

THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL then moved that the Bill be read a second time.

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded, and the Bill was read a second time.

Council then went into Committee to consider the Bill clause by clause.

On clause 64, in the amendments of No. 5 of the "Domestic Cleanliness" By-laws of the Public Health and Buildings Ordinance, No. 1 of 1903, all the words after the words "New

Kowloon" were deleted.

On clause 86, the repeal of Ordinance No. 11 of 1905 was cancelled by the deletion of the paragraph commencing with the words "No. 11 of 1905."

On clause 87, the last line was deleted and the following substituted therefor:―"Ordinance No. 26 of 1911."

On clause 89,

THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL ― I beg to move a new clause, 98, as follows:

89.―The Railways Loan Ordinance, No. 11 of 1905, which was repealed by Ordinance 49 of 1911, is hereby re-enacted and shall be deemed to have been in full force and effect from the date of the passing thereof as if the same had not been repealed by the said Ordinance No. 49 of 1911.

This was agreed to.

Council then resumed.

THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL reported that the Bill had passed through Committee with small amendments and moved that it be read a third time.

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded, and the Bill was read a third time and passed.

Deportation Ordinance, 1912

THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL moved that the Council go into Committee on the Bill entitled, "An Ordinance to provide for the deportation of undesirable aliens and certain other persons."

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded, and the motion was agreed to.

On the motion of the Attorney-General it was agreed that the figures "1882" be substituted for the figures "1881" in the marginal note to section 13, and that the words "The First Schedule" in the Schedule be deleted.

On Council resuming.

THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL reported that the Bill had passed through Committee with amendments, and moved that it be read a third time.

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. 27

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded, and the Bill was read a third time and passed.

Dangerous Goods Amendment

Ordinance, 1912

THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL moved that the Council go into Committee on the Bill entitled, "An Ordinance to amend the Law relating to Dangerous Goods."

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded, and the motion was agreed to.

THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL―Council will remember that this Bill was considered in Committee at last meeting, but owing to an objection taken to the form by His Excellency the matter was deferred for further consideration. I have now prepared an "alternative" clause, clause 5, which meets with your Excellency's sanction. It provides that people possessing dangerous goods shall be liable to forfeiture of the goods and in addition the person shall be liable to a period of imprisonment not exceeding six months or to a penalty not exceeding $120 and $100 per day for each day on which the goods are proved to be in his possession. The effect of that is that the penalty or imprisonment can be either accumulative or alternative. The whole object of the Ordinance is intended to be a strong one, owing to the very strong representations made by the police to the Government on the matter. Council will see how desirable it is to place us beyond the reach of bombs or any other dangerous explosives.

HIS EXCELLENCY ― Under the old Ordinance forfeiture was compulsory: now it is optional.

Council then resumed.

THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL moved that the Bill be read a third time.

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded, and the Bill was read a third time and passed.

Foreign Copper Coin Ordinance,

1912

THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL moved the second reading of the Bill entitled, "An Ordinance to prohibit the importation and circulation of foreign and bronze coins." In doing so he said―The objects and reasons are stated very concisely at the end of the Bill, and

Council at the last meeting had the opportunity of hearing Sir Frederick Lugard's views upon them.

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded, and the Bill was read a second time.

Council then resolved itself into Committee to consider the Bill clause by clause.

On clause 5, sub-section.

HIS EXCELLENCY THE GENERAL OFFICER COMMANDING―As it stands at present a money-changer might be exempt from the operation of the Ordinance.

HON. MR. HEWETT―Is a bona fide banker defined in the original Bill?

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY―I think the magistrate will easily find out who is a bona fide banker in the Colony.

HON. MR. HEWETT―You think he can. There are all sorts.

HIS EXCELLENCY―There are no concerns like the Charing Cross Bank here.

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY ― I think there is no need to effect any change in the section as it stands.

HIS EXCELLENCY ― This Ordinance as originally drafted was submitted to the Lords Commissioners of the Treasury.

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY―Yes, sir. I should leave it as it is.

HON. MR. HEWETT―If the Bill has been referred Home to the Treasury it should be passed as it stands. If it is inoperative it can be amended later on.

HIS EXCELLENCY ― The section stands.

On consideration of the date when the Bill should come into operation,

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY―I should suggest the 1st October.

HON. MR. OSBORNE―If you give too long time you will have the Colony flooded with copper coin from Japan.

28 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

HIS EXCELLENCY―I think July 1st would be fair.

HON. MR. OSBORNE―I think that is plenty of time.

HON. MR. WEI YUK―I think you should give three months' time.

HIS EXCELLENCY―Very well. 1st July. On Council resuming,

THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL reported that the Bill had passed through Committee with amendments, and moved that it be read a third time.

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded, and the Bill was read a third time. and passed.

Magistrates Amendment

Ordinance, 1912

THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL moved the second reading of the Bill entitled, "An Ordinance to amend the Magistrates Ordinances, 1890-1910." In doing so he said―This Bill brings into force some of the provisions of the Straits Ordinance which relate to reformatories and industrial schools. If the Council will allow the Bill to go into committee I will propose a somewhat elaborate clause b.

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded, and the Bill was read a second time.

Council then resolved itself into Committee to consider the Bill clause by clause.

On clause 2,

THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL―I move that in the new section 86, in clause 2 of this Bill, that in line 6 the word "not" before "notwithstanding" be deleted.

Agreed to.

THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL ― With reference to sub-section (b), it has been suggested to the Government by Mr. Pollock, who takes an active interest in the welfare of the youth of the Colony, that custody may also be given in the case of apprentices or servants to their masters and mistresses. That amendment was referred to the Registrar-General, who offers no objection to it. I therefore move to insert in sub-section (b) in line 3 after the word

"relative" the words "or in the case of the offender being an apprentice or servant to his master or mistress or in the case of the offender being a schoolboy or schoolgirl to the person in charge of the school at which the offender is attending;" that after the word "relative" at the end of line 3 there be added the words "master, mistress or person in charge of a school;" that in line 5 the words "or she" be inserted after "he."

This was agreed to.

Sub-section (c) was altered by sub-stituting the word "they" for "he" in line 4 and by adding the words "relative, master, mistress or person in charge" after the word "guardian."

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY―I think it would be advisable to have this Bill reprinted and considered in Committee.

Agreed to.

Council then resumed.

HIS EXCELLENCY ― Council stands adjourned sine die.

FINANCE COMMITTEE.

A meeting of the Finance Committee was held afterwards ― the Colonial Secretary presiding. The following votes were passed:―

Employing a Detective

The Officer Administering the Government recommended the Council to vote a sum of one thousand three hundred and sixty-seven dollars ($1,367) in aid of the vote Treasury, A.― Treasurer's Office, Personal Emoluments, European Detective for protection of revenue under Stamp, Liquor and other Ordinances.

Miscellaneous

The Officer Administering the Government recommended the Council to vote a sum of four thousand three hundred and twenty dollars ($4,320) in aid of the vote Public Works, Extraordinary, Miscellaneous, Miscellaneous Works.

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. 29

Chief Justice's Pension

The Officer Administering the Government recommended the Council to vote a sum of four hundred and twenty-four dollars (£37 0s. 9d. at 1s. 9d.―$424) in aid of the Head Pensions, A. ―Civil, Pension of the Chief Justice.

THE CHAIRMAN―It has been debated in Council.

Hon. Mr. HEWETT―Will you record my objection?

The CHAIRMAN―Certainly.

Post Office

The Officer Administering the Government recommended the Council to vote a sum of four thousand dollars ($4,000) in aid of the vote Public Works, Extraordinary, Buildings, Post Office.

Kap Sing Lighthouse.

The Officer Administering the Government recommended the Council to vote a sum of one thousand three hundred dollars ($1,300) in aid of the vote Public Works, Extraordinary, Buildings, Lighthouse and Quarters, Kap Sing Island.