1905-09-21 — Page 1

PRESENT:―

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21st SEPTEMBER, 1905.

The COLONIAL TREASURER seconded and the

motion was agreed to.

HIS EXCELLENCY THE GOVERNOR, MAJOR SIR MATTHEW NATHAN, K.C.M.G.

Hon. Colonel C. H. DARLING, R.E. Commanding the Troops).

Hon. Mr. T. SERCOMBE SMITH (Colonial Secretary).

Hon. Sir H. S. BERKELEY, K.C. (Attorney General).

Hon. Mr. L. A. M. JOHNSTON (Colonial Treasurer).

Hon. Mr. E. A. IRVING (Registrar-General). Hon. Mr. BASIL H. TAYLOR, R.N. (Harbour Master).

Hon. Mr. W. CHATHAM (Director of Public Works).

Hon. Mr. R. SHEWAN.

Hon. Sir C. P. CHATER, C.M.G.

Hon. Dr. HO KAI, M.B., C.M., C.M.G.

Hon. Mr. GERSHOM STEWART.

Hon. Mr. WEI YUK.

Hon. Mr. W. C. DICKSON.

Mr. A. G. M. FLETCHER (Clerk of Councils). MINUTES.

The minutes of the previous meeting were read and confirmed.

FINANCIAL.

The COLONIAL SECRETARY laid on the table the Financial minutes, No. 35 and 39, and moved that they be referred to the Finance Committee.

The COLONIAL SECRETARY laid on the table the report of the Finance Committee No. 7 and moved its adoption.

The COLONIAL TREASURER seconded and the motion was agreed to.

THE ESTIMATES.

The COLONIAL SECRETARY ― It is usual for a member who is in charge of a Bill to avail himself of the second reading to take the opportunity to say something about the Bill and urge its merits, but in view of the lucid and comprehensive explanation of the estimates of 1906 given from the chair a fortnight ago, I think I cannot with advantage make any additional remark, and I will simply content myself by moving the second reading of the Bill entitled An Ordinance to apply a sum not exceeding Five million seven hundred and seventeen thousand two hundred and seventy six Dollars to the Public Service of the year 1906.

The COLONIAL TREASURER―I beg to second it.

Hon. Mr. SHEWAN―After Your Excellency's full explanation of the Estimates there is not much left for me to say, but there are one or two points on which I think we should have more light. The Bill in connection with the Widows' and Orphans' Fund has not yet been

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laid before us and it does not seem to me to be correct to include this appropriation in the Estimates: for if we vote the Estimates we commit ourselves to the principle of a bill which has not yet been passed. The money it is proposed to appropriate belongs to the Government servants from whose salaries it has been deducted. It is in the nature of a trust fund and should be treated accordingly, but it is put down in the Estimates as Revenue. I feel sure that no auditor or accountant would pass this except as capital from the interest on which the pensions are derived. How the Government can propose to appropriate the large amount of $220,000 without even saying by your leave to the men to whom it belongs I cannot understand. I notice, too, that these pensions will require a clerk &c., &c., costing $3,000 per annum, so that at the very outset we are plunged into an extra expense. This item is put down as exempt from military contribution, but is it so? Ordinance No. 1 of 1901 exempts only proceeds of land sales and leases, and therefore before this money is dealt with a clear understanding must be come to with the military. As a detail I would ask that the rate of exchange at which the pensions on page 7 of the Estimates are paid in London should be stated, as at present it is very misleading. $491,645 to be spent by the Sanitary Department is enormous. How is it that at Canton where there is little or no such precaution or expenditure plague is never worse than it is here where we keep an army of men doing nobody seems to know what? Half the money spent on Water Works, it seems to me would be far more to the purpose, and instead of so many bacteriologists we might have a trained entomologist from home who would teach us how to trace out and demolish the white ant and other insect pests which cause a huge loss to this Colony every year by their destruction of property. I regret very much the deferment of the No. 2 section of the Tytam Water Works scheme. You say 'a large outlay if we can afford it would hasten the completion of the project,' Then why not afford it? If the outlay cannot be met out of revenue we must have a loan, but do not let us lose a moment in pushing forward the whole work to completion as soon as possible by every means in our power. I hope that the $75,000 spent on flushing tanks for the drains will enable us to do away with the present disgusting system of cleaning the sewers by hauling chains through them. While on this subject I would protest against the way in which the Praya and other places are being disfigured by unsightly urinals, which should be built underground, and not almost immediately below people's offices and verandahs where they are a nuisance and an offence. The comparative figures for 1881 and 1906 are interesting, but although we spend a great deal more money now I do not know that Hongkong to-day is as pleasant a place as it was

then when we did not have the Sanitary Board making away with 11.15 per cent. of our revenue. Nor does it seem to me to be creditable that with a far greater population our expenditure on education should, as you say, have dropped from 3.95 per cent. to 2.73 per cent. It is quite right to economise and cut down expenses, but it should not be done at the cost of education. I am sorry to see that the Government has done nothing to stop the influx of subsidiary coins from the mainland. It is little short of a disgrace that the people of a British Colony should have to use a debased foreign coin which the Banks refuse to accept, and which even the ricksha coolies will only take at a large discount. There is another matter which the Government if it wishes to assist the trade of this Colony might look into, and that is, the registration of Chinese partnerships. The present want of system plays into the hands of bank compradores and others who try to make money by guaranteeing obscure or unknown Chinese hongs and firms, but much misery and loss would have been prevented this year if merchants and traders had been able to know better with whom they were dealing. I am glad to hear that something is to be done to give better roads to Kowloon, but why does the Government tinker with the matter in this way? Why can it not draw up a fixed and definite scheme of wide roads and broad boulevards for Kowloon and the New Territory to which all building sites and building must conform instead of the present haphazard system of running a street here and a road there just as some one happens to put up a house? It will have to be done all over again just as in London to-day they have a Royal Commission, whose report runs into 8 volumes, laying down a scheme of road improvements for London which is estimated to cost thirty million pounds nearly, all of which might have been avoided and saved if the Government of a former day had adopted the advice and carried out the plans submitted to them by Sir Christopher Wren and John Evelyn for the rebuilding of the town after the Great Fire of London. It will be the same with Kowloon later on if we do not look ahead and exercise a little forethought and imagination. The new scale of salaries for subordinate officers will, I fear, not do very much good. It is a step in the right direction, of course, for if you want a good man you must pay good wages, but you will never secure efficiency until you give the Heads of Departments full power to dismiss with or without commutation of pension, otherwise the good men leave while the indolent and incompetent remain with you only to swell your pay roll and pension list. Stimulating industries would I think be

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best effected by the Government giving up its practice of always exacting the last cent whenever a piece of ground is wanted for a new industry. I know of one contemplated industry which it was seriously intended to start in Canton on this account. In another case the Company which had bought the ground from the Government and cleared it of squatters at its own expense was asked 12 12 times the original cost for a small piece it wanted for an extension for housing its workmen. Needless to say the ground was not bought, and the last time I saw it, it was still lying idle. In another case a concern was called to account for making a path to a piece of ground on the top of a hill which it has bought from the Government, although in what other way the men, not being birds, were supposed to get there I have never understood. In a third case it was attempted to bring a factory to book for having built a well within its curtilage, but this fell through because on being asked, the Government could not explain what a curtilage was. With regard to the last item touched upon by your Excellency. "Sport," I am quite in agreement with Mr. Kipling, and do not think in this Colony it requires any encouragement. If our young men were but to serve their masters as diligently as they serve their god "Sport," we should not see the British slowly driven out of the trade of China by the hard-working German, the thrifty Japanese, and the untiring Chinaman. In trade and commerce to day the race is to the man who gives himself entirely up to it, and who, like St. Paul, has put away childish things. We shall never regain our old position in the Far East by encouraging our men to dream all day of polo ponies, cricket matches, and boat races.

Hon. Mr. GERSHOM S TEWART ― After the luminous and comprehensive review which we all had the pleasure of listening to from your Excellency on the first reading of the Estimates for the year 1906, it may perhaps appear somewhat unnecessary to say much more upon a subject which has been dealt with already in such a masterly and thorough manner. But as Mr. Shewan and I have been detailed off by the unofficial members to review the Government programme I ask your indulgence while I give some ideas that occur to me. It would be hardly right if the unofficial members, content as they are at the general position of affairs, passed this Bill in silence and voted away $7,000,000 of public money without comment of any sort. To say nothing might suggest two possibilities, (1) that the unofficial members are no good―a possibility I have more than once seen darkly hinted at, or (2) that the administration has arrived at a state of perfection and is above criticism. As to the first, I am in too delicate a position to offer any opinion; and to admit the second would be lamentable to us all, for as things are ever changing

in this restless world, the next change which must come after perfection is a step towards decay. I am glad to say that there are imperfections enough in the Government programme to make one feel assured that we still belong to a healthy and progressive body. The sum of $249,000 brought in under the heading of the Widows and Orphans Fund is one requiring some explanation. We have no figures of any sort on which to form an opinion as to this novel departure. It seems to be exempt from military contribution but how that exemption is effected is not explained. If a vote of this Council is sufficient to excuse any item of revenue received from this 20 per cent. tax, it is a precedent which will probably be freely availed of in the future. In addition to our own affairs it seems a large order that by a stroke of the pen taxpayers should be called upon to accept the responsibilities of a life insurance company. When the Bill explaining this item comes on for consideration we can then consider the details of the scheme. Meantime our only course is to vote solidly against the inclusion of the figures in the Estimates and to publicly state that we view the whole project with disfavour. Your Excellency will pardon me if I seem exacting as to demands for Public Work, but you will remember that for ten solid years, from 1894 and onwards, all our spare money went towards fighting the plague and it is only now that we can undertake many useful works which have been unavoidably held over. The immense increase in the opium revenue coincides with a great improvement in the public health, and we are naturally desirous of utilising to the full the strong position we are in at the present moment and doing everything in our power to make up the leeway of the lean plague years. Firstly and chiefly, the point in the Government programme which calls for adverse criticism is the cessation of work upon the scheme of a greater reservoir at Tytamtuk, which will, when completed, solve, as far as it is possible for us to solve it, the question of a constant supply of water to the Island of Hongkong. This is of such pre-eminent importance to the best interests of the colony that any delay is to be much deprecated. I trust sincerely that the arrangements for pumping are being developed, to prevent as far as possible the wastage of good water running through Tytam valley to the sea. There are three questions which I hope the Director of Public Works will answer when the estimates for his department come to be passed. (1) During the last 5 years, how long during each year has the whole Colony been on a constant water supply? (2) What progress has been made with the rider mains, and what saving does he estimate will ensue? (3) What amount of water is estimated to carry on the new system of flushing sewers,

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and will it be all fresh water? Cannot some of those cataracts which go foaming to the sea in wet weather on the north side of the island be in some degree impounded and harnessed to do the work of flushing drains? After six months' dry weather in the spring it is trying to all of us to see quantities of good bath water and drinking water go gurgling down the sewers. Those of us who lived through the drought of 1902 and know the annual recurrence of a short water supply on the upper levels can only view with regret any failure to cope with this most irksome infliction. I have known parents paying large taxes to see their children playing unwashed. I have known a high military officer stand and see his house burnt down and all his treasures consumed before his eyes, helpless for want of water, when every coolie in the town was enjoying a constant and unlimited supply. I think it may fairly be claimed that the attitude of the Executive towards the water supply has been justly open to criticism during the last 15 years. When Tytam was finished they seemed to think that finality had been arrived at and that they could fold their hands and sit down for good and all. The supply into all houses in the town soon dissipated this idea, and it is therefore with great regret that one sees any relaxation towards the desired end of a large and constant water supply. With a clean plague sheet, a happy state shared also in the city of Canton which has no Sanitary Board, the amount of $491,645 put down for sanitary expenses seems enormous. Were it not for a somewhat arbitrary reduction of $10,000 for disinfectants the total amount of this vote would exceed $500,000 in 1906. If one protests too loudly the bogey of the colony's ruin and plague tearing rampant through the streets, is shaken before our eyes. It is not an item therefore that non-expert people care to take a strong stand against. At the same time we may be pardoned for drawing your Excellency's particular attention to this great outlay of public funds, and we appeal to you with your acknowledged grasp of detail and capacity for organisation to satisfy yourself that we get value for our money. It is difficult for anyone to feel assured that over 500 men can be fully employed in sanitary work at the present time. The diminution of $25,000 in the anticipated revenue from felling trees is very welcome to all of us who love our woodland scenery. While on the subject of trees I venture to congratulate the Government on their scheme for planting the hills on the north side of the harbour, and I hope to see the red headed hills of Kowloon included in the programme and perhaps wreathed with laurels. As the increase in trees means that so much less earth is washed by rainstorms into the harbour and on the principle that prevention is always better than cure, the more woods you have the less work you will have to do when it comes to dredging the harbour. The

approaches to the town from the harbour are still in a poor condition and I see no provision for their improvement in the present budget. The dilapidated matsheds which, at times, ornament the three chief piers are not worthy approaches to a port which claims to be the third in the world. A spark from the funnel of a steam launch was sufficient to remove the Ferry matshed in a few moments, a month or two ago, and the gale we had on August 30, although a little one, was sufficient to demolish the covering at Queen's Wharf. Luckily the shed at Blake Pier has stood although in a somewhat dilapidated state, and it would take but little to dissipate that venerable relic. When it is remembered how the sun pours down and the rain also on just and unjust alike I feel it is not asking too much that the elaborate plans for a proper approach to Blake Pier be extracted from their official pigeon hole and the work proceeded with forthwith. If your Excellency would further take the Clock Tower by the hand and lead it down towards the water front, and endow it with a large clean new face so that it could pass the time of day to every ship in the harbour, a busy street would be relieved of a long standing congestion and a considerable improvement would be effected. I note with gratitude that the requirements for improved typhoon shelter have your support and sympathy; may good wishes soon be translated into action and it will be a joyful day to folks afloat when they see the foundation stone of a new breakwater take its first plunge into the waters of this storm-swept harbour (applause from Dr. Ho Kai). One of the smallest items of expenditure is on page 55, the Ecclesiastical Vote, $3,800. With regard to this, I respect the opinion of those who think there should be no state aid to religion, although I do not hold that opinion myself. Under limitations I think it advisable and at times even necessary. That the item appears at all in these estimates shows that the principle is accepted and, that being the case, it seems to me that we do not err on the side of generosity. Much work is done in visiting goals and hospitals and caring for the destitute and miserable by ministers of all denominations and the reward for these services appears to me entirely inadequate. With a revenue of $7,000,000, and the principle of state aid to religion admitted, the colony squares its conscience cheaply by devoting about one sovereign per diem to services of this nature. This subject naturally makes one think of destitutes and of the increase in that field of charity which your Excellency desires us for our own moral advancement to solve by individual as opposed to public effort. I quite recognise the extreme inadvisability of making things too easy for the unfortunate (who in many instances are the lazy and self indulgent). At the same time it is bad policy to press a

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willing horse far, and the charitable would appreciate stronger efforts on the part of the Executive to protect them from the ever increasing invasion from outside of the destitute and penniless European. Cases in plenty arise of ill-health and bad-luck amongst our own residents and without being niggardly it is manifestly our first duty to take care of those of our own household. For the earnest activity with which your Excellency has endeavoured to promote the Kowloon-Canton Railway the whole colony is grateful and we await with anxiety the result of the present negotiations at Peking upon the matter. Whatever the delay may be about these negotiations, I hope that your Excellency will pursue the policy of constructing that portion of the line lying within our own borders, for to see it running will have a fine moral effect upon public opinion in South China and I am sanguine enough to believe that in many ways it would repay the outlay. (Applause). As far as my observation has served me the New Territory has up to now grown little beyond what the inhabitants require for themselves. Give them a quick and ready access to the markets of Hongkong and I hope that our New Territory, with an industrious and increasing population, rendered possible by augumented facilities for transport and communication, will spring into new life under the influence of the skilful husbandman active because of a good market at hand for his produce; then will many of our barren hills rejoice and bring forth fruit, and many places now lying waste will ere long bloom and blossom like the rose. Succeeding generations will share with us the benefit of anything done now; let us therefore, if need be, borrow to ensure the speedy accomplishment of manifestly useful works. To pay for everything out of income is a policy of caution which at times may wisely be departed from. With an ample revenue and a clean bill of health, with an energetic Governor who is also an engineer, with a zealous officer at the head of the P.W.D., backed up I hope and believe, by a keen and efficient staff; with labour as ever abundant; with the public purse able and willing to pay for any assistance his department may require, the present seems a golden opportunity for us to be up and doing. Let us see to it that we avail to the full of the auspicious fortune which the fates have given us. With the reservations I have referred to I have pleasure in supporting the second reading of this Bill (applause).

His EXCELLENCY―Before referring to the details of the two speeches to which we have just listened, I should like to thank the honourable member who has last spoken for his clear exposition of what he considers to be the views of the colony in the matters of public works, the Canton-Kowloon Railway, and the development of the New Territories. No exception having been taken to this

exposition by other members of the Council, I take it as representing the opinion of the community and as such it will be most valuable to me in supporting various schemes that the Government have in hand and in contemplation. (Applause.) Passing now to details I would refer first to those points which are dealt with, both in the speech of the representative of the Chamber of Commerce and in that of the Hon. Mr. Gershom Stewart. I am not prepared at the present moment to give a full explanation of the proposal to transfer to the Government the Widows and Orphans Pension Fund, the principle of which proposal was accepted by the Governor-in-Council and by the Directors of the Fund several years ago. Nor at the present time can I furnish the Council with the reasons which led them to pass existing and previous Ordinances which embodied many of the principles which will be included in the new Widows and Orphans Pension Fund Bill. Before effect can be given to the financial arrangements set forth in the estimates with regard to their Fund this Bill must become law. Ample opportunity will be given to the Council to consider and discuss the Bill. In the meantime as it is desired that the transfer of the Fund and that the issue of the larger pensions which this transfer will give to the widows and orphans of past contributors should take effect from the beginning of next year, it has been necessary to take into consideration in the estimates, the financial effect of the transfer, and I trust you will see fit to leave further discussion on the matter until the Windows and Orphans Pension Fund Bill is before you. It was my intention that it should have been presented to the Council before they were called upon to vote the small amounts entered in the estimates of expenditure for administering the fund, but I received a representation from certain gentlemen whose widows or orphans will be interested in the Fund with regard to it, and I wish to consider carefully that representation before proceeding with the measure. I may mention that the Bill will contain a clause, sanctioned by the Secretary of State, exempting contributions to the Fund from being taken into account in calculating the military contribution of the Colony. Turning now to the question of the expenditure in the Sanitary Department, with which both gentlemen who spoke dealt in some detail, I would remind you of the old adage,―

"The devil was sick, the devil a monk would be;

"The devil was well, the devil a monk was he." The community was sick and was virtuously prodigal with money for sanitation. The community is well and is desirous of economising in sanitary expenditure. Unofficial members anticipated that they would need to be defended against themselves, for a letter dated

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7th June, 1901, from the Chamber of Commerce to the Government―of which Chamber some of the gentlemen present were members― contained the following paragraph:―

"My Committee desire to draw attention to the folly of allowing the prejudices of officials, the fear of expense, or the dread of unofficial opposition to stand in the way of the execution of sanitary measures which are known to be necessary, and which have been insisted upon time after time by experts. If any doubt be entertained as to the practicability or expedience or otherwise of such recommendations, no time should be lost in referring them to a higher authority for decision. The time has now arrived when vigorous action should be taken to secure the continuance of the progress of the Colony and to adequately protect the great commercial interests so adversely affected by these disastrous annual epidemics."

Who were the experts specially referred to is made clear in the preceding paragraph of the letter, which states:

"In the opinion of the Committee, the Colony possesses in the Medical Officer of Health a valuable and energetic officer, whose untiring efforts to promote the sanitation of the city merit every encouragement; whereas, his recommendations, like those of Mr. Chadwick, have been frequently ignored, shelved, or pared down when adopted."

In matters of sanitary engineering the Government in now following Mr. Chadwick's advice, and it is the former Medical Officer of Health, now President of the Sanitary Board, who has framed the sanitary department estimates before you. In addition to the letter I have quoted, written four years ago, there was a subsequent petition sent to the Secretary of State, which was numerously signed, and among the signatures I observe that of the present representative of the Chamber of Commerce. Towards the end of that petition there was the following paragraph:―

"The foregoing statements prove that the local Government has failed to give effect, save in a very qualified form, to the measures so frequently urged upon it by its own Medical Officers and other experts; its efforts, so far, have met with so little result, indeed, that the Colony is now suffering severely from the annually recurring visitations of plague and, in a lesser degree, of enteric fever and small-pox. The inadequacy of the measures adopted by the local Government in dealing with so grave a crisis may, we submit, be regarded as equivalent to a tacit admission on its part that it is beyond its power, of its own initiative, to undertake the gigantic task which a thorough and efficient reform of the sanitary conditions of the Colony, with the heavy expenditure and sacrifices attending

it, would involve." The petition concluded with a prayer that experts should be sent from England and their advice followed. In answer to it the Secretary of State, as you are aware, sent out Messrs. Chadwick and Simpson, who prepared long and careful reports published in 1902. These reports have been acted upon nearly in their entirety by the Government. The Public Health Ordinance of 1903 was introduced exactly on the lines recommended by Mr. Chadwick. It may interest you to hear the variations in the mortality statistics since the date of the public agitation―in my mind a very reasonable one― in 1901. In the previous year the death rate per thousand of the population had been 25.78; in 1901, it was 23.55; in 1902, 21.70; in 1903, 18.19; in 1904, 19.4. The Public Health Ordinance, to which I have referred, was passed in 1903. In that year the deaths from plague numbered 1,251, in 1904 they numbered 495, and this year, at the end of the plague season, the number stands at 274. I do not go so far as to claim that these improvements are due to the measures taken by the Government, but I do claim that they cannot be cited by honourable members to show that those measures have been ineffectual, or that the expenditure on sanitary measures has been wasted. At the same time, as I stated before, we shall take every possible means to see that the sanitary expenditure is not wasted and that the amounts appearing in the sanitary department estimates are not spent unless the necessity arises. Last year there was a considerable saving on the amounts voted for the plague items and I hope there will be a similar saving this year on the same items. In the estimates for 1906, this is a decrease in the sanitary vote of $5,839. Then $3,900 have been transferred to the vote from "miscellaneous services" while it has also been made to cover an in crease of $2,688 for market expenses which will be met by equivalent receipts. Practically, therefore, there is a reduction in the estimate of $12,427 and I hope the actual saving will be more than this. The third matter referred to in the two speeches was what Mr. Gershom Stewart alluded to as the cessation of work on the large reservoir at Tytam Tuk. Probably that was a slip, as the work has never been commenced. The present project is Tytam Tuk, No. 1 Section, which we will complete next year. We will commence Tytam Tuk, No. 2 Section, as soon as we can after No. 1 Section is completed. The designs have not been made out but they and the detailed estimates and specifications are in hand. They will take some time to complete, and I don't think any time will be lost by not including an amount for the work in the estimates for 1906. We might have included a nominal amount, but it was hardly worth while to do that. There is no intention on the part of the Government to shirk this part of the water supply scheme. With regard to the water supply at the

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Peak, the Hon. Mr. Gershom Stewart asks the Director of Public Works to reply to certain questions and I have no doubt that he will do so. I concur with the hon. member that the approaches to the colony are not what they ought to be. I am however inclined to look upon the replacing of the pier matsheds as not so necessary as other work that is provided for in the estimates. With regard to the removal of the Clock Tower which was also referred to by the hon. member representing the Chamber of Commerce in the discussion on the estimates last year, I am not certain if there is any real desire on the part of the public that the clock tower, erected by the community as a monument in 1862, should be removed. It is stated to be an impediment to traffic, but I am not certain that it is a real impediment. If I were satisfied there was any general desire to have this old monument removed I should take steps to have it done. The hon. member representing the Chamber of Commerce referred to the unsightliness of urinals on the Praya. I went into that question some months ago with the Director of Public Works. I should like to have them placed underground, as they are in London, but we came to the conclusion that they could not be sufficiently drained if they were sunk.

Hon. Mr. SHEWAN―Could they not be placed in better positions?

HIS EXCELLENCY ― They are near where the majority of people work who use them. There is the difficulty about this question that wherever they are placed someone is certain to object to the smells that arise from them. The Hon. Member representing the Chamber of Commerce referred to the small vote for education. It is certainly not a large vote. As I mentioned when addressing the Council a fortnight ago, education is one of the most difficult subjects with which we have to deal in this Colony. Even if we wished to spend a much larger sum than we do it is difficult to say how it should be spent. I am considering the subject and possibly may arrive at a solution. It has to be borne in mind we are not educating our own people, but mainly a fluctuating population, subjects of China. With regard to the prevention of Chinese subsidiary coins coming into the colony, it would be helpful to have a definite statement on the matter from the Chamber which the Hon. Member represents. Also it would be interesting to the Government to have a definite statement from the Chamber of Commerce on the subject of the registration of Chinese partnerships. The Hon. Mr. Gershom Stewart has correctly interpreted my views on the charity question so that it is unnecessary for me to deal further with that matter. As to stopping the invasion of the Colony by destitute Europeans, a Bill was passed during our last session which it is hoped will tend to mitigate this evil. No proposal was made at the time of the passing of the Bill to make it more drastic than it is. I see there is one Public Works matter brought forward that I have not dealt with, that of a definite scheme of roads and boulevards in the New Territory and Kowloon. Such a definite scheme as was referred to by the Hon. Member representing

the Chamber of Commerce exists.

Hon. Mr. SHEWAN―Can it be published?

HIS EXCELLENCY―It would for obvious reasons not be desirable to publish it. If the Hon. member will favour me with a visit to my office I will show it to him.

Hon. Mr. SHEWAN―I think I saw one, sir. One road was on it.

HIS EXCELLENCY ― That is not so. The Hon. Member representing the Chamber of Commerce referred to the difficulties experienced in buying land from the Government.

Hon. Mr. SHEWAN―For new industries.

HIS EXCELLENCY―For new industries. The general principle regulating the price the Government charges for land is to obtain the market value. If the Government does not sell crown land for the full price they can get for it, part of the value of the land, instead of going to the public purse, will go to the individual who purchases the land at less than, and sells it its full, market value. I think these are all the points brought forward by the Hon. Members to which it is necessary for me to reply.

Hon Mr. SHEWAN―May I be allowed to make one explanation. The instance of stimulating industry to which I referred did not occur under the rule of my hon. friend opposite, Mr. Chatham.

On the question being put, one "No" was heard, and HIS EXCELLENCY declared that the "ayes" had it.

The COLONIAL SECRETARY―The Bill having been read a second time, I move that it be referred to the Finance Committee.

The COLONIAL TREASURER―I second it.

The motion was agreed to.

NEW TERRITORIES LAND ORDINANCE.

The ATTORNEY GENERAL―I beg leave to move that the Bill entitled An Ordinance to amend the New Territories Land Ordinance, 1905, be read a second time. The reasons which lead to the introduction of this Bill are fully set out in the memorandum attached to the Bill, copies of which have been in the hands of Hon. Members for some time. As clearly stated in that memorandum, there are a large number of errors in the schedule attached to the leases of land in the New Territory which it is essential to correct. These errors have arisen from the illiteracy of the Crown lessees who are in large part, but not altogether, peasants. These errors are due in great part to the habit among these people of giving as the name of the lessee the name of some remote ancestor, so that the real name of the living man frequently does not appear on the sche-

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dule as it ought. Also there has been an omission from the schedule of subsidiary dealings, which have not been recorded by the Land Court owing to lack of

FINANCE COMMITTEE.

———

A meeting of the Finance Committee was held

information. The object of the Bill is to enable such corrections and additions to be made to the Crown schedules as may be necessary. I move that the Bill be read a second time.

The COLONIAL TREASURER―I second that.

The motion was agreed to, and the Council went into committee to consider the Bill in detail.

On the Council resuming,

His EXCELLENCY―I have to report that this Bill has passed through committee with one amendment. MERCHANT SHIPPING ORDINANCE.

The ATTORNEY GENERAL.―I propose that the Bill entitled An Ordinance further to amend the Merchant Shipping Ordinance, 1899, and for other purposes be read a third time.

The COLONIAL SECRETARY―I second that. The motion was agreed to.

His EXCELLENCY.―I move that a Bill entitled An Ordinance further to amend the Merchant Shipping Ordinance, 1899, and for other purposes do pass and become law.

There was no dissent to the proposition which was declared carried.

PROTECTION OF WOMEN.

immediately after the Council, the Colonial Secretary presiding. The following votes were passed.

BOTANICAL AND AFFORESTATION

DEPARTMENT.

The Governor recommended the Council to vote a sum of three hundred and thirty-six dollars ($336) in aid of the vote, Botanical and Afforestation department,―other charges, maintenance of gardens and grounds, for cost of repairing the damages done by the recent typhoons and rainstorms.

MISCELLANEOUS SERVICES.

The Governor recommended the Council to vote a sum of seven thousand five hundred dollars ($7,500) in aid of the vote, 22 Miscellaneous Services, for the following items:―

Other miscellaneous services .............. $ 500 Refunds of revenue ............................. 7,000 Total ........................... $7,500

PUBLIC WORKS EXTRAORDINARY.

The Governor recommended the Council to vote a sum of one hundred and fifty dollars ($150) in aid of the vote, Public Works Extraordinary, for the following:―

Miscellaneous Works―

The ATTORNEY GENERAL―I move that the Bill entitled An Ordinance further to amend the Protection of Women and Girls Ordinance, 1897, be now read a third time.

The COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded.

Converting a room in the Stanley Police Station into a drying room and fitting up a drying stove in the room ............................................

Erecting a small matshed on the ground in front of the Station ..................................................

$ 30 120

The motion was agreed to.

SUMMARY OFFENCES.

The ATTORNEY GENERAL―I move that the Bill entitled An Ordinance to amend the Summary Offences Ordinance, 1845, be read a third time.

The COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded.

The motion was agreed to.

MAINTENANCE OF MARRIED WOMEN.

The ATTORNEY GENERAL―I move that the Council resolve itself into Committee to consider the Bill entitled An Ordinance relating to the Summary Jurisdiction of Magistrates in reference to married women.

The COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded, and the motion was agreed to.

On the Council resuming,

HIS EXCELLENCY―I have to report to the Council that a Bill entitled An Ordinance relating to the Summary Jurisdiction of Magistrates in reference to Married Women has passed through committee with amendments.

HIS EXCELLENCY―The Council stands adjourned till Thursday, 28th September, at 2.30. p.m.

Total ...................................... $150

SANITARY EXPENSES.

The Governor recommended the Council to vote a sum of two hundred and fifty dollars ($250) in aid of the vote, Sanitary Department ― other charges, incidental expenses, for printing 125 copies of the new edition of the Public Health and Buildings Ordinance, 1903.

EDUCATIONAL CHARGES.

The Governor recommended the Council to vote a sum of sixty-nine dollars and twenty-seven cents ($69.27) in aid of the vote, Education―other charges, Victoria British School, Furniture.

THE ESTIMATES FOR 1906.

The Committee then considered the Bill referred to them by the Council.

On the Treasury vote,

The Hon. Mr. SHEWAN moved that the sum of $3,000 in connection with the Widows and Orphans Fund be deleted. That item ought to be left out until the provision of the Widow and Orphans Fund had been passed.

The ATTORNEY GENERAL―You need not press that, because if the proposed Bill is not passed by this Council the vote falls.

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The COLONIAL SECRETARY.―It does not follow the money will be spent.

Hon. Mr. SHEWAN―No; but we might be told afterwards that we had passed it.

The motion was put and the CHAIRMAN declared that the "ayes" had it.

Hon. Mr. SHEWAN challenged a division.

Seven voted against the amendment and six in its favour.

The original motion was then carried.

WATER SUPPLY.

The Hon. DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS answered the questions put by the Hon. Mr. Gershom Stewart. With regard to No. 1, he said there was a constant supply of water during 313 days in 1899, 352 in 1900, 365 in 1901, 160 in 1902, 228 in 1903, and 180 in

1904. The next question was what progress has been made with rider mains and what saving it is estimated will ensue. The answer is: The rider mains have been laid in about half of the intended districts and it is estimated that the saving will be about a million gallons per diem. The third question referred to the water for flushing tanks. It is impossible to say what quantity will be used but it is intended to supply the tanks from the streams that the hon. gentleman said he was so sorry to see running to waste down the hillside, and the tanks will be filled and discharged according to the state of the tide. Fresh water only will be used for the purpose.

The enacting clause of the Finance Bill was approved, and the Committee was adjourned.

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