27
[Mr. Hurd]
Hong Kong
6 DECEMBER 1993
points that the hon. Gentleman mentioned will be for the Legislative Council. That is a point that the Chinese find it hard to accept, but it is a fact that we constantly press on them.
Dr. Liam Fox (Woodspring): Does my right hon. Friend accept that, if the Chinese Government have the best interests of the people of Hong Kong at heart, the best thing they can do is give the go-ahead for the airport and other projects as soon as possible?
Mr. Hurd: I agree with my hon. Friend. The Governor of Hong Kong is pressing ahead with the airport, as anyone who flies over Hong Kong and over Lan Tao island can see. However, it is important that the remaining part of the project receives the Chinese consent which is needed. That is another practical example of an asset which is being created day by day, both on the ground and in the sea. It is powerfully in the interests of China that that should be successfully and rapidly completed.
Mr. Dennis Skinner (Bolsover): To sum it up, could it not be argued that there are all sorts of democracies, which come in all shapes and sizes? When the right hon. Gentleman is negotiating with the Chinese Government, will he perhaps consider that many Opposition Members would like to see a system evolve based on the House of Commons and direct elections? Do not the Chinese Government perhaps want a system based on the House of Lords? As the British Government support the House of Lords, might they not put themselves in a dodgy position?
Mr. Hurd: The hon. Gentleman has a distinctive view of the House of Lords, which used to be shared widely in the country. However, his view is not shared any more, and the hon. Gentleman is being a little old-fashioned on the matter. I have not yet heard a proposal based on the House of Lords from the Chinese Foreign Minister or from the Chinese Premier. Were we to do so, we would be intrigued rather than persuaded.
Mr. Anthony Coombs (Wyre Forest): Does my right hon. Friend agree that the best way to safeguard the human and constitutional rights of the people of Hong Kong under Chinese rule is to ensure that as many as possible of the democratic proposals agreed under the Joint Declaration of Basic Law are implemented beforehand? Given the somewhat questionable record of the Chinese Government in human rights, both in China and in Tibet, is not the Governor wise indeed to push ahead with democratic proposals to ensure that as many proposals as possible are implemented before the changeover takes place?
Mr. Hurd: The Hong Kong Bill of Rights gives effect in local to the provisions in the international covenant on civil and political rights as applied to Hong Kong. The Joint Declaration-that is to say, the declaration which we made with China-provides that the international covenant will continue to apply to Hong Kong after 1997. My hon. Friend is right about the importance of that.
Mr. Mark Fisher (Stoke-on-Trent, Central): If we are serious about helping the development of democracy in Hong Kong, does the Foreign Secretary accept that it is not just a matter of electoral mechanics-important though those are, such as the age of voting or the number of elected
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members? Are not open government and the freedom of information from censorship key elements in underpinning democracy?
Will the Government encourage Governor Patten to look at censorship and self-censorship of the Hong Kong media, and will they give support to the freedom of information Bill which will come before LegCo next spring? If not, and if the Government are solely concerned with negotiating on the mechanics of democracy, will not their rhetorical support for the widening of democracy be somewhat hollow, as it is not just a matter of electoral mechanics?
Mr. Hurd: No, indeed it is not. I do not know the details of the Bill which the hon. Gentleman mentioned, but I will certainly pass on the message to the Governor. The hon. Gentleman is right to say that it is not a mechanical matter. We have seen relatively recently the growth of a democratic spirit. Until recently, the pressure for that spirit did not exist. However, there is that pressure now. We all have ideas about how that spirit arose and why it is now so strong, but it is there. Therefore, it is not a matter of mechanics. The mechanics are finding the machinery through which that spirit can find expression.
Mr. Robert Banks (Harrogate): Does my right hon. Friend agree that it is not only in the interests of China to see the continuing success and prosperity of Hong Kong for the value which Hong Kong can bring to China, but also for the international community to see that an agreement can be reached, so that trade can be opened up with China and that future British investments in China will go ahead? That is something of great value. Does my right hon. Friend agree that it is vital that we maintain a working dialogue throughout all the difficulties, small and large, which may occur in future negotiations?
Mr. Hurd: I agree with my hon. Friend. The consensus may be broken immediately, but it is notable that every single right hon. and hon. Member on both sides of the House-even, I think, the idiosyncratic hon. Member for Bolsover (Mr. Skinner)—has supported what the Government are attempting to do and the way in which we are seeking to handle this matter. There may be criticisms of the way in which the matter has been handled in the past, but, as regards the path that we are now on, there has been unanimous support, and that is extremely helpful to Hong Kong.
Mr. Chris Mullin (Sunderland, South): Welcome though the Foreign Secretary's decision to introduce some form of limited democracy in Hong Kong may be, does the right hon. Gentleman not agree that we suffer from something of a credibility problem in that regard? I say that because we have had 100 or so years to sort out democracy: if it is such a good idea, we could presumably have done so some years ago. Now that we are to stand up to the Chinese on this issue, will we be adopting a less supine attitude to one or two other important human rights issues in China, particularly in relation to Tibet?
Mr. Hurd: I do not think that our attitude to Tibet has been in the least bit supine. The way in which we have taken the matter up and our discussions with the Dalai Lama prove the reverse. I think that I answered the hon. Gentleman in one of my earlier answers. I first went to Hong Kong in 1954. No one who knew the colony then
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