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Hong Kong
15 MARCH 1993
If China is so convinced that the Governor's proposals in some way as yet unexplained transgress the joint declaration or the Basic Law, will he not rule out the possibility of asking whether it would agree to refer the matter for an advisory opinion to the International Court of Justice?
Mr. Hurd: I think that I have already answered the latter point. It is important to have sensible arrangements for the future which meet the criteria set out in my statement but which could be continued after 1997 in what is called the through-train. That should be the objective, but it has not yet been possible to reach it.
As for what the right hon. Gentleman said about the Chinese Prime Minister's statement this morning, it follows the line that has been taken before. There is nothing especially dramatic or unexpected in it, but it represents the continuation of a stalemate on a matter which it is in the practical interests of Britain, China and Hong Kong for the stalemate to be broken. That is the essence of the matter, and I hope that after gazetting, as before gazetting, it will be possible to start, continue and succeed in a dialogue that reflects those real interests.
Sir Cranley Onslow (Woking): As my right hon. Friend has confirmed, contrary to what my hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch (Mr. Adley) suggested, that he gave the Chinese Government advance notice of the Governor's proposals in good time, and as he emphasised the fact that they were consistent with the Basic Law and the joint declaration, will he say whether the Chinese have given any indication of why they appear to want to seek confrontation?
Mr. Hurd: No; the Chinese have not given us any alternatives to the Governor's proposals. They said for a long time that they were not prepared to discuss the matter until the proposals were withdrawn. Recently that has not been their position. That is one reason why, as I told the House a few minutes ago, I was reasonably hopeful until quite recently about managing to get into talks. In the end, for the reasons I have given, that was not possible. My right hon. Friend is right. During the almost six months in which the Chinese Government have had the Governor's proposals, we have had no alternatives to the proposals from the Chinese side.
Mr. Gerald Kaufman (Manchester, Gorton): Is not this deplorable situation the direct consequence of the Government's spinelessness on the whole issue of democracy in Hong Kong? Is not it a fact that the consensus from the Office of the Members of the Legislative and Executive Councils should have been confirmed by the Government long ago? Is not it a fact that the Patten proposals, inadequate and belated though they certainly are, are the minimum that should now be introduced? The Foreign Secretary is now saying that these inadequate and belated proposals, only four years before China takes over in Hong Kong, can be subject to further whittling away and further reduction. What kind of democracy will be handed over to the Chinese in 1997 if the Government do a Munich on Hong Kong?
Mr. Hurd: The right hon. Gentleman is back in his old form. I do not think that he recognises the realities of the situation any more than he did when he was a Front-Bench spokesman. Most right hon. and hon. Members, including the right hon. Gentleman in calmer moments, know that
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the political demand for democracy in Hong Kong is of reasonably recent date. It is now strong-Hon. Members: "Oh come on!"] That is true. When I first knew Hong Kong many years ago, it would have been hard for anybody to say that there was a demand in Hong Kong for political democracy. It simply was not so. Recent events. which I need not specify, have created that demand out of anxiety. It is now a real demand. It is no longer possible to treat or to handle Hong Kong as if it were simply a commercial city. The political demand is there and the political community is now there. The Governor, the British Government and the Chinese Government must take account of that reality.
We can argue, as the right hon. Gentleman and I did at the time, about the OMELCO concensus, although I do not agree with his conclusion. The conclusion we reached last time was about right and worked. I always said that we would go back to the Chinese to see whether we could improve on it. I was thinking of an increase in the number of directly elected seats. What the Governor has done is not that. He has sought to improve democracy by other means compatible with the Basic Law. The Governor has made a shrewd set of proposals.
Mr. David Howell (Guildford): Will my right hon. Friend accept that the principle of more democracy in Hong Kong is not really at issue? That principle was accepted long ago by the Chinese in the 1984 accord and is enshrined in the basic agreement, in which the Chinese also talked about the need for a high degree of local autonomy. All that the Governor and my right hon. Friend are trying to do now is to bring forward proposals to make a reality of those earlier demands, agreed to by the Chinese, that there should be a high degree of autonomy.
Will my right hon. Friend accept that it is entirely right that we should persist with these modest proposals to make a reality of points to which the Chinese have already agreed? Will my right hon. Friend also bear in mind that the whole of Asia, including Hong Kong, is now in transition and that there is quite a degree of transition in Beijing as well? It may well be right to persist with our line and not to abandon ourselves to passing pressures.
Mr. Hurd: I am grateful to my right hon. Friend; he is right. The phrase "two systems in one country” is not a British phrase. It is a Chinese phrase to embody the principles of the 1984 joint declaration. That is right. The principle of two systems in one country after 1997 is the only practical principle under which Hong Kong can be successful after the change of sovereignty. It is, therefore, in the practical interests of Britain, of China and of Hong Kong that that principle should be turned into reality. The Governor's proposals are one way in which to do that.
Dr. Jeremy Bray (Motherwell, South): Will the Foreign Secretary confirm that, apart from the usual gyrations in the stock exchange casinos, trade and business in Hong Kong with China are proceeding perfectly normally? Will he also confirm that nothing in the constitutional proposals and in the democratic principles underlying them undermines the continued prosperity and expansion of the Hong Kong economy? Will he consider taking the Chancellor of the Exchequer out there for a much-needed holiday to see what an expanding economy really looks like?
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