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above all, what this exodus from Eastern Germany shows is that those
countries which try to simply swim against the tide, they will
almost literally fall to pieces. They have to respond to the needs
of their people.
Q: In responding or not responding to the needs of its own people,
do you think the East German regime is digging its own grave? Does
East Germany and the British view as a victor power of World War II
actually have a future?
A: Not if it goes on like this, it doesn't look as if it does.
Because it's going to find it extremely difficult to find the people
with the abilities to maintain the structures and the services it
needs. And no nation can continue forever without the allegiance of
its own people and what is happening now is that Mr Gorbachev is
clearly saying that the structures set up by Stalin after the Second
World War will not be supported irrevocably by Soviet tanks and
force in the future. It is for those Governments to find their own
way, he hopes, to socialism. But that is the new situation and it
is to that that the Poles and the Hungarians are responding, and if
the East Germans don't respond, well then they will find themselves
with even greater alienation between Government and people I
suspect.
Q: If that alienation leads to a questioning of the right of the
East German state to exist and perhaps even further down the road to
some form of reunification of the two German states, is that
necessarily in the West's interest?
A: I don't think that we as democratic countries can discuss these
matters really as if it is all a matter of Realpolitik We have to
say that our whole societies are based on the right of
self-determination within national structures, and if the East
German people, given the chance, choose to stay separate well then
that is their decision, if they choose to reunite well ever since
1955 we have said that that should be their right as well. I don't
think we should look at it in sort of games playing terms because
our democracy here won't let us do that apart from anything else.
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