TNAG-1896-FCO40-2690-Calls-on-Francis-Maude--Minister-of-State-for-Foreign-and-Co-1989 — Page 98

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and persuasively be pointed out to the people of Hong Kong?

Lord Glenarthur: My Lords, I have no doubt that will be discussed when my right honourable and learned friend goes to Hong Kong. My noble friend is absolutely right in saying that it is far too early to do that sort of detailed planning. What we need is a general attitude of sympathy and support for Hong Kong, and that is what we have already achieved.

Lord Molloy: My Lords, is the noble Lord

aware-

Lord Bonham-Carter: My Lords-

The Minister of State, Home Office (Earl Ferrers): My Lords, with respect to both noble Lords, it would be helpful if they were to speak one at a time. I rather fancy that the noble Lord, Lord Bonham-Carter, was about to ask a further question following the answer to his first question. The noble Lord, Lord Molloy, could then follow with his question.

Lord Bonham-Carter: My Lords, I thank the noble Earl for his intervention. Did not the noble Lord, Lord Glenarthur, misunderstand the nature of my question? By reassuring the citizens of Hong Kong that there is a plan for the worst possible situation it would stop the emigration now going on and which is so damaging to the prosperity of Hong Kong.

Lord Glenarthur: My Lords, I did not misunderstand the question at all. The noble Lord perhaps slightly misunderstands the problem. We have to try to meet two concerns. The first is the immediate concern of restoring confidence in Hong Kong so that the brain drain about which the noble Lord is concerned can be diminished. And looking to the future, we must discuss with others how best we can meet the scenario which we all wish not to happen but on which inevitably people's minds are focused at the moment.

Lord Molloy: My Lords, it is wise for the noble Lord's right honourable and learned friend to go to Hong Kong to listen to what people have to say. I am sure that he will have taken note of the many things that Members of this House and of another place have had to say about the position. Will the noble Lord make the point to his right honourable and learned friend that if at any time the people of Hong Kong feel that they wish to have discussions with the British Government or with members of the Opposition such requests will be immediately acceded to?

Lord Glenarthur: My Lords, it is not for me to answer for the Opposition. If anybody wants to talk to the Opposition, that can no doubt be arranged through their channels. The Government regularly have talks with people from Hong Kong whether they be from the Hong Kong government or elsewhere. We shall continue to do precisely that.

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Baroness Seear: My Lords, following the question. of my noble friend Lord Bonham-Carter, does the noble Lord agree that people are more likely to stay put in Hong Kong if they have an assurance that in the event of the worst happening there will be somewhere for them to go? There would then be no question of wishing to get out now in order to escape while they can.

Lord Glenarthur: My Lords, the noble Baroness seems to misunderstand the nature of the problem. She seeks an instantaneous solution to a problem which is not even likely to arise in its ultimate form before 1977 and, hopefully, will never arise, as my noble friend Lord Renton said. Therefore, to go into the kind of detail which she and others are seeking is not sensible. We have to try to arrange now through discussions with other countries some mutual understanding of the nature of the problem so that ultimately, if things go seriously wrong, that can lead to the detailed planning which she seeks.

Lord Monson: My Lords, have the Government given any thought to the proposal, reported to have been made by the honourable Member for Beckenham, Sir Philip Goodhart, which would. involve writing off the massive overseas debts of Latin American countries in proportion to the number of passports granted to Hong Kong citizens?

Lord Glenarthur: My Lords, the important thing is for us all to strive to make sure that Hong Kong is a success not only up until 1997 but beyond that

year.

Lord Northfield: My Lords, might not Taiwan be a refuge for some of these citizens if ever the need were to arise? We all hope that it will not arise. As we do not have relations with the government of Taiwan, which is so obvious a place of refuge, how do the Government propose to bring them into the general considerations to which the noble Lord has referred?

Lord Glenarthur: My Lords, it is not for me to answer at this Dispatch Box for Taiwan. I suggest that the answer to the noble Lord's question lies more in Taiwan than here.

Lord Eden of Winton: My Lords, will my noble friend ask the Foreign Secretary to make clear to the people of Hong Kong that these international discussions have begun with a view to putting into place certain contingency arrangements? If he were to spell that out with complete clarity, would that not go a long way to restoring confidence among the people of Hong Kong?

Lord Glenarthur: I am sure that my right honourable and learned friend will refer in general terms, as I have done, to the discussions which have taken place. However, I ask my noble friend to understand that to go into the kind of detail which he seeks is asking the impossible. We have eight years to wait. All kinds of things can change between now and then. While the point that he makes is a serious one, to get into that detail really is not sensible.

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