352
14 June 1989]
Mr Rowlands
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE
RT HON SIR GEOFFREY HOWE, QC, MP, MR R McLaren and MR A PAUL
948. Are we sending illegal immigrants back? (Sir Geoffrey Howe) Yes, the normal pattern of some dozens a day of illegal immigrants being returned has been followed.
Mr Temple-Morris
949. In the context of our relations with China one way and another, which is what we are talking about at the moment, now and in the future, it is important to ask in the form of a question of the Foreign Secretary about the ripple effects which are spreading out across the world as a result of the atrocities in Peking. By that I mean the visa ques- tion which has already been covered by my colleagues, the Embassy opening, people wanting to escape from China, the question of students already here and whether they should go back home and, perhaps even more important than all this, within Hong Kong the serious reports in today's press of disaffection of Chinese Commu- nist orientated people within Hong Kong as a result of what has happened in Peking—an overwhelm- ing sympathy which now seems to be going to the heart of China's relations with Hong Kong and within Hong Kong sympathy for what has happened to the students and, indeed, democracy and all the rest of it. In that context, when we assesss our relations with China, where are the Foreign Secretary's priorities? That is the question. Are his priorities to stand up to China on behalf of the people of Hong Kong who overwhelmingly have shown themselves to believe in us recently, or is the Foreign Secretary's line to have an eye to the future and therefore to be cautious?
(Sir Geoffrey Howe) I cannot repudiate too strongly the proposition that there is any kind of choice between standing up for the interests of the people and territory of Hong Kong and manage- ment of our relations with China. There is no separ- ate freestanding selfish Britishness, about that because our interest in the future of Hong Kong depends upon the extent to which we are able to get across our case to China. That has always been so. They are absolutely intertwined with each other. But just as it has been in the interests of Hong Kong to see an extension of commercial interlocking and contact between the Hong Kong territory and the hinterland, so it has been sensible to seek to engage China in its openness with the rest of the world in our economic interests—and those of the Japanese, the Americans and everyone else. There is no competition between the two. What I am seeking to do now is to go on making plain how much importance we attach to our responsibilities in Hong Kong, just how much importance we attach to the Joint Declaration which then provided for that because it is the foun- dation of the international obligation on which we have to build, and how much importance we attach to China's written adherence to the Joint Declar- ation. I think what we must all look for is the best way of helping, so far as anyone can in such a mammoth country, the resurgence of more respon- sible perceptions as to what should be happening.
[Continued
If one takes one's mind back to China as it emerged from the Cultural Revolution-many colleagues have much longer memories than I have of this- I can remember going 11 years ago to Peking and meeting people who were handling the first threads with which to try and create an institute of judicial adminstration. The whole concept of the resto- ration of legal institutions was scarcely visible above a the surface. We all of us have worked without any sense of starry-eyed illusions having regard to the history of China to foster and generate all those developments, the whole movement from the half dozen simple propositions enunciated by the Chinese leadership years back and to the Joint Declaration being an attempt to build on that, we must be looking without any false expectations. Who knows when the opportunity will arise or where or how frequently from opportunities of beginning to start moves in the opposite direction? That is our purpose for the sake of Hong Kong but also for the sake of the wider future and aspirations of the Chinese people. The world cannot believe that the windows to freedom and democracy opened by China in the last ten years will be closed forever. None of us can tell which instument wielded by whom will help to open them as fast as we feel they should but we shall do everything we can to achieve this.
Chairman: All this brings us to the grim practical question of how and when we seek to do business with this regime in Beijing and Mr Jopling has a question of that.
Mr Jopling
950. I think, if we could turn to the future with particular reference to the Joint Declaration of 1984, we fully understand how impossible it is to carry on normal business with China at the present and, of course, we would not wish to tempt you into saying things that you might regret after the dust had settled. But if I could ask some questions about how you see the Joint Declaration and to what extent you think the Joint Declaration as an international treaty has been undermined by recent events and whether you feel already that the Joint Declaration would need changing, or even possibly need to be started again or do you on the contrary think it is something we should cling to at all costs? Of course, we understand what you said to the House last week, that any attempt to design some alternative to the Joint Declaration would be of little, if any, value in the absence of the right relationship with China. But if you could just give us your thought on that, perhaps you could also tell us wheher there has been any contact at all between our officials in Beijing and those who have been dealing with the Joint Declaration and whether we are taking steps currently to open discussions again with those officials who are, of course, extremely familiar to our own officials? What are our immediate plans with regard to con- tact between the people we have been dealing with in regard to the Basic Law?
(Sir Geoffrey Howe) First of all, one totally understands that confidence in the whole of this
No comments yet.
Private notes are available after approval.