G
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Hong Kong
[LORDS]
[LORD AVEBURY.] Government of this country would give sympathetic consideration to the situation of the few people we are discussing in this amendment this afternoon. I think that that was obviously as far as she could go.
I was not really expecting that the Government would accept the amendment as it stood, but I was hoping and my hopes have been realised--that we would get some forthcoming response from the Government as a result of tabling the amendment. That was the object I had in mind, and that is the object which has been achieved. Although I must reserve the position until we hear what the Council of Hong Kong Indian Associations have to say when they have read Hansard, I believe that they will warmly welcome the assurances which the Government have given this afternoon. Therefore, I have pleasure in asking your Lordships' leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Lord Gridley moved Amendment No. 2:
Page 2, line 43, at end insert-
("; and
(c) as to the public service of Hong Kong and persons being members or former members thereof (including provision for the discharge of obligations to, or otherwise compensating, such persons and for the apportionment of liabilities arising therefrom).").
The noble Lord said: In moving Amendment No. 2, prior to giving the motives which lie behind my objectives I should like to say something about the words in my amendment which I wish to be included in the Bill. I have used the words "public service", and my amendment states clearly “persons being members or former members thereof”. “Public service" covers not only members of Her Majesty's Overseas Civil Service in Hong Kong but other officers who fall within that category.
The present situation on these issues in Hong Kong, as to who qualifies, is not dissimilar to the situation which was found by Her Majesty's Government when they granted independence to Kenya. In that case, in Statutory Instrument 1963 No. 1969, 'the Kenya (Compensation and Retiring Benefits) Order in Council, the schedule had the following qualification to make. “Entitled officer" was there defined as “an officer in the public service". It also includes, under Section (c) a member who
“is a member or alter Majesty's Overseas Civil Service or Her Majesty's Overseas Judiciary, or a designated officer for the purposes of"
overseas service. I respectfully suggest, from what I have said, that when an Order in Council is made for Hong Kong covering compensation and retirement provisions it will probably follow, as and where appropriate, the provisions made formerly in relation to the Order in Council for Kenya.
4.15 p.m.
V.
Having explained the use of the words “public service" in my amendment, I now wish to state my motives for moving it. In doing so there lies no criticism whatsoever on my part of Her Majesty's Government for what to date they have achieved in the Hong Kong agreement, and particularly in securing a joint declaration with the People's Republic
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of China. Nor do I not appreciate the courtesy and consideration shown me by my right honourable and noble friend the Minister of State in an acceptance at Second Reading of the points I made regarding the importance of stressing the safeguards for pensionable status and other obligations which lie at the door of Her Majesty's Government.
I must nevertheless emphasise that in no other case, so far as I know, where Her Majesty's Government have granted independence to her former territories have any Brithsh Government given 12 years' notice ahead of their intention so to do, and of course that is the case in Hong Kong. In that connection the situation does not appear to have been clearly stated as to the position of Her Majesty's overseas civil servants, or cognisance given of the fact that they have to wait for 12 years in a career service for action in respect of their pensionable emoluments and status.
I accept and appreciate what my noble friend the Minister said at Second Reading, at column. 507 of Hansard of 19th February, in her reply with reference to my desires regarding the safeguarding of the rights of public servants. But when my right honourable friend said that in respect of other territories these issues have generally been negotiated at the Inst moment before independence and signed after independence, I must emphasise that this is an anomalous position which has never applied hitherto and is now applying in Hong Kong, and in ‹these circumstances Hong Kong is in a very situation.
1
If my amendment is accepted it does nothing to fetter the hands of Her Majesty's Government in thi Bill as to the manner in which it is drafted. It does not impose any time limit as to when Her Majesty's Government should act or exercise their obligations The amendment seeks to include in the Bill what i obvious: that certain existing obligations and liabiliting regarding pensions lie at the door of Her Majesty Government. It seems to me appropriate that th words "discharge of obligations" are in th amendment which I have proposed. ROMÍ In conclusion, I believe that this amendment wouk help Her Majesty's Government in retaining the public servants in Hong Kong loyal servants of Crown-in the most important work that lies belon them in the 12 years ahead. There is valuable work be done, and there are many difficulties which it. need the skill and devotion of experienced officer overcome.I beg to move.
No
Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos: I was not sup read this amendment because the nob Gridley has bee a loyal advocate of this of public servants from the start was p debate on the agreement on 10th recall that he spoke most strong that there is wides expatriate staff in Hong Kong pensions. I have also personally ations about them since then..
In the second Reading debate on noble Lord made a further strong plan assurance from the Government expatriate officers would be treated on officers simily recruited by the British
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