146
4 February 1985]
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE
MR R LUCE, MP, MR A C GALSWORTHY, DR D C WILSON and DR D CARTER
[Chairman Contd.] alternative to the establishment of these camps, as a temporary objective only, not a a long-term objective. I entirely agree with you. The only answer, at the end of the day, to the problem of children being born in these camps, is to find a policy whereby we can get satisfactory resettlement. That then leads me on to the second part of your question, which is about open camps. I agree with you that the conditions are different, one of which is, as you have implied, that the people in these camps can go out and work in the community. How- ever, I am bound to say that I do not think it is going to be possible to ask Hong Kong themselves to take on an extra number of refugees, when you bear in mind the other very serious problems that they have to grapple with. I think it would be only proper that I should say this at this stage.
218. In breaking the logjam of resettle- ment, who is primarily responsible for that? It is the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, or is it the Home Department?
(Mr Luce.) I would say that it is my office, the Foreign Office, the Secretary of State, who have the responsiblity for Hong Kong. Therefore, it is our responsibility to take a lead in connection with the problem of refugees.
Mr Hunt
219. As the Chairman has said, I visited one of the open camps. From the cursory conversations there, I can really endorse what you have said, Mr Luce: that the main wish is probably to go to the United States. This seems to be the magnet which is attracting most of them there. What was clear is that there was no discernible de- mand, as far as I could see, to come to the United Kingdom. There is, of course, the special category of the family reunion cases. This is what I would like to put to you. I think there are about 300 such cases. If we were to accept responsibility for those family reunion cases and admit them, albeit on a phased basis, would that be seen by the other governments concerned as a positive initiative to break the logjam? In other words, would that be enough to produce a similar gesture on behalf of other resettle- ment countries? What is your view on that?
(Mr Luce.) I have no doubt that it could be an important contribution. As you may know, Mr Waddington, the Minister of State for the Home Office, who has allowed me to say this and reinforce it this after- noon, is writing to the British Refugee
[Continued
Council to say that he and the Home Department will look again very carefully indeed at individual compassionate cases (that is to say, old cases as well as fresh cases) of individuals who might have con- nections with this country. But to come straight to your point, you used the figure of 300. The UNHCR themselves say that they reckon there are 435 refugees with links that you have described, in Hong Kong itself. I am bound to say that with the policy that Mr Waddington is now able to follow, and knowing that of course no other country is likely to take such a close interest where they know that these people have relations in Britain, I think that that policy that Mr Waddington is now devising (to look care- fully at these cases) will itself be a contribu- tion. I think I would say no more than that.
220. Because it is a fact, is it not, that unless we accept that liability, these people are destined to remain virtually indefinitely in these camps, because in view of their links with those already in the United Kingdom, no other country is going to come anywhere near to accepting responsibility for them? So that they are in a very special compassionate situation, are they not?
(Mr Luce.) I think I would have to say yes to that. I agree with you.
221. So far as testing the truth of the assertions which have been made by other governments is concerned, it does seem to me to be at the moment so terribly nebu- lous. Is there no way, through diplomatic channels, that we can get some positive undertaking from these governments that if we make a gesture there will be reciprocal action? At the moment it is so vague, and no one seems to be willing to commit them- selves. Is there nothing we can do at diplomatic level to firm up on these assur- ances?
(Mr Luce.) I think, Mr Hunt, what I would say about that is this. As I said earlier, it is the case that we have had a pretty wide range of contacts with a number of governments who are resettlement coun- tries. Indeed, as I have described earlier, we have had really quite regular discussions with the United Nations High Commis- sioner for Refugees. I personally propose to go to Geneva in March. I am hoping to make plans which will enable me to visit the Commission and to have further discussions with them. Yes, it is the case, we have had bilateral discussions, but at the end of the day their attitude is that they regard us as
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