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[Mr. Ian Lloyd]
Foreign Affairs
22 MARCH 1984
"can gain a better understanding of the constraints and needs of the other."
My right hon. Friend the former Foreign Secretary said, in the context of the Soviet Union, that we should have a dialogue about Our profound misunderstandings.
Discussion and contact are necessary.
We disagree with much of what is done and said in South Africa, whatever we may think about the progress that has been made. I am a profound critic of much that remains in South Africa, but that country suffers from unique constraints, difficulties and needs.
We should maintain and broaden our contact with the Soviet Union and those countries with which the United Kingdom had profound disagreements. We should do the same with those whom we seek to influence and persuade. -
9.1 pm
Mr. Tom Clarke (Monklands, West): Because of my regard for other hon. Members, and especially my hon. Friend the Member for Linlithgow (Mr. Dalyell), I shall be more brief than I intended when I travelled overnight from Hong Kong over what felt like two days. I am especially pleased that the right hon. and learned Gentleman the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs is in the Chamber.
My hon. Friend the Member for Hamilton (Mr. Robertson) went out of his way during our visit to ensure that the people of Hong Kong could observe discussions on a non-partisan basis. We, who are in Opposition, made it clear that the position was delicate, as it involved 5.3 million people, and that we did not wish to make party political points. We conducted our visit on that basis.
The whole of the debate in the Legaslative Council was most interesting. It would be wrong to say that it was colourful. It was a respectful and almost tolerant debate. Nevertheless, it is fair to say I am sure that the Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office, the hon. Member for Shoreham (Mr. Luce), will understand this point because of his recent visit to Hong Kong- that although people of Hong Kong accept the need for confidentiality and respect the British Government's view, opinions are changing. I respect the views of those involved in the extremely important negotiations. It might be helpful if something were said to help the people involved to understand the objectives which both sides of the House share.
My hon. Friend the Member for Hamilton and I visited the new economic zone of Sin Gin. In view of the importance of the economic zone to the Chinese, I hope that they will have regard for the need for co-existence in Hong Kong in the future. The Chinese claim that they want that co-existence. I hope that they accept that it is not only right that the Hong Kong people should continue to enjoy freedom of expression, and so on, but that limited economic dependence-which the Chinese must observe in view of their involvement in the economice zone- should appeal to their enlightened self-interest. I hope that they consider other equally important factors, including the future of the Hong Kong people and their right to co- exist with China and their other neighbours.
Although our contribution in this debate is brief- and I was happy to note the tone set by the Minister and my right hon. Friend the Member for Leeds, East (Mr. Healey I believe that the importance of Hong Kong in
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We can expect profound debate and discussion. The people of Hong Kong would expect this Parliament to do no less than take into account all the factors before an agreement is reached, including the Governement's views in the negotiations that are taking place.
My hon. Friend the Member for Hamilton and I were invited to visit one of the refugee camps in Hong Kong, where we saw some of the Vietnamese refugees. With great respect to the Foreign Secretary and to the Minister, we were appalled at the conditions. This is no reflection on those who are doing so much to make sure that the circumstances are as comfortable as possible. We saw a boy of seven who was unfortunate enought to be without. parents and without a state. We were told that the prospect for the boy in future was confinement to that camp, significantly, next to a prison.
I fully understand that this is a complicated problem, but if, in the right hon. and learned Gentleman's preparation to visit Hong Kong and China, he could give some constructive thought to that matter and make suggestions to improve the lot of those people, including giving freedom to that young boy of seven, I believe that the limited contribution that I have been able to make to the debate will be more than worth while, and I for one will be grateful to the right hon. and learned Gentleman.
9.7 pm
Mr. John Stokes (Halesowen and Stourbridge): I always enjoy the speeches of the hon. Member for Monkslands, West (Mr. Clarke). I am sorry that time will not permit me to comment on what he said.
I was in Damascus last week, and I wish to speak about the middle east. In spite of the virtual breakdown of the conference is Lausanne, I am not unhopeful that a solution will be found eventually to the appallingly difficult Lebanese problem. Having spoken for some hours to the Syrian Foreign Minister, I am convinced that Syria wants a, moderate settlement with a fair distribution of power between Christian and Moslem. I only hope that the Christian leaders in the Lebanon will be more sensible and realistic in that matter than they have been so far. They are now in a position of great peril, and will surely realise that. Syria, with its history, has every right to be concerned with the Lebanon, but I do not believe that it will abuse this concern. The Syrian intervention in the Lebanon was, after all, at the request of the Lebanese Government, and cannot be equated with the Israeli armed aggression in the south.
While in Syria, we found great hostility to the United States of America, particularly over the Palestinian question, which was exacerbated by by the United States' actions in Lebanon, including the shelling of Druze villages. We pointed out that the Americans were our closest allies in NATO. Nevertheless, we left the Syrians in no doubt that we did not share the United States' view about Israel and its aggression in south Lebanon, and elsewhere. It is sometimes difficult for people living in England who have not been to the middle east over the last generation to realise the bitterness which almost all Arabs feel, wherever they live, for the plight of the Palestinians who have been deprived in many cases of their right to live in their own homelands.
I have met people from Jerusalem and Jaffa and many other towns in Palestine who have been driven out by the Israelis and are mainly immigrants from Europe. It is as though large sections of England had been taken over and
Date : 22 March '84
Col. :
1257-58
Vol. : 56
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