707
British Nationality
[LORDS]
Lord Jenkins of Putney: My Lords, being fairly fresh from another place, I am wondering whether the advice which has been given to the noble Lord on the difficulty of the proposed amendments is not a little bit heavy? I wonder whether the noble Lord might be able to go this far: can he give us an under- taking that, if he finds it possible, he will substitute these amendments, or will ask his friends in another place to substitute these amendments, for the one now proposed?
Lord Renton: My Lords, may I make a further suggestion in a constructive hope that, when this interchangeability is introduced into the Bill by amend- ment, it should be done so as soon as possible in the Bill so that those who read it will understand it for the rest of their reading of the Bill? If it gets tucked into a definition clause at the end it will not have as good effect. I would have thought that perhaps the right place to put it is in Clause 4(1).
Lord Belstead: My Lords, if your Lordships will bear with me yet one further time, the reason why I replied in single negative to my noble friend Lord Lauderdale was that the one thing we are sure about, having looked at the amendment of my noble friend Lord Geddes, is that it really does entail quite a lot of work. There are the two limbs. There is both the printing and the sheer work of going through the Bill and getting it right before you can get it to the printer. If I am not sure of very much, at least the one thing I was sure about was that I could not accede to what my noble friend said to me, which was that it ought to be done and done pretty quickly.
This leads me to the noble Lord, Lord Jenkins. For the reason that I have given to my noble friend sitting behind me, I do not think I can give the under- taking which the noble Lord has asked for. We have looked as carefully as we can at Lord Geddes's amend- ment and we felt, at least at the start of this short debate on this amendment, that the only way to go about it was to put a declaration into the Bill without the Government flooding another place with 99 other amendments. Of course, we will take into account, in looking at it again, what the noble Lord, Lord Jenkins, has said, but that was the reason for it.
Finally, there is the important point which has been made by my noble friend Lord Renton. I should like to give my noble friend an assurance that we shall certainly look at that point very carefully indeed.
Lord Avebury: My Lords, may I ask the noble Lord a question? I understood that we were now in the twentieth century and using word processors for the drafting of successive prints of a Bill. If that is so, most word processing packages have a facility on them for finding particular words or sequences of words even if there are numbers of repetitions of them. If that were so, and this Bill had been produced on a word processor, then it would be a matter of a few seconds to find all the instances of " British Dependent Territories".
Lord Leatherland: My Lords, the noble Minister suggested that if Lord Geddes's amendments were adopted it would cause great difficulty between the
Bill
authors of the Bill and the printers. I think he exag- gerated those difficulties. It used to be my delightful job every night to put through with the printers half a dozen different editions of a morning newspaper.' Printers are very able and competent people, and I am quite sure that it would not be beyond the wit and wisdom of the printers to comply with any of these alterations which were suggested.
Lord Geddes: My Lords, I should like to say first, and most genuinely, a very real "Thank you" to my noble friend on the Front Bench for agreeing, at least at this stage, to the principle behind this amend- ment. I cannot in all fairness-and I think my noble friend is already aware of this-give my unqualified thank you, because I, too-and it will not surprise your Lordships-cannot see any practical reason why these amendments should not be put through.
Indeed, if I may reply indirectly, if your Lordships will give me leave, to my noble friend Lord Lauderdale, I am pleased to say that I have every single necessary amendment marked in my copy of the Bill and I could give it to the Front Bench this evening. So, with great respect to my noble friend Lord Belstead, that is not a problem. I do not again, like my noble friend Lord Belstead, claim to be a printer so I can only stand by the words of the noble Lord opposite who clearly has much more experience that I.
More seriously, I feel most strongly on behalf— I must not say that; in the interests of British depen- dent territories' citizens that they must see this parti- cular amendment as a full-blooded one so far as it goes and not in any way a diluted one. I ask one question only of my noble friend Lord Belstead at the moment, and it is a question asked out of ignorance: that is, if it is possible for a clause of interchangeability to be inserted in the Bill, is it possible for a clause of substitution to be inserted in the Bill? Would that particular possibility get round the problem that he referred to? To an extent this is an enlargement of the suggestion from the right reverend Prelate of chang- ing the title of the Bill. I wonder whether my noble friend could answer that point?
Lord Belstead: My Lords, if the House will give me leave, that of course is a matter for another place. The second point which I ought to make is that I do not think in my reply to my noble friend I talked about a clause of inter-changeability. What I was suggesting to your Lordships' House I envisage may be done in another place by a simple amendment.
May I finally say to my noble friend that of course the difficulty of discussing this question in this way is that we are at the very final stage of the Bill; and of course constitutionally the only House which could now make amendments, the next group of amendments at any rate to the Bill, would be another place. Having said that, may I thank my noble friend for the reception which he has given to my acceptance of his amendment. May I underline that on behalf of the Government I am accepting his amendment.
Lord Geddes: My Lords, I must confess that I am now somewhat confused. I thought I had understood my noble friend to say that he was accepting the principle behind the amendment rather than the amendment itself. Am I correct?
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