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British Nationality
[LORD TREFGARNE.]
[ LORDS]
very different. Accordingly, therefore, we see consider- able difficulties in this part of the amendment too, which would, we believe, undermine one of the basic principles of the Bill, and risk nullifying much of our work. I am afraid therefore that this amendment taken as a whole raises very considerable difficulties and I hope that in view of what I have said, the noble and learned Lord and his colleagues will see fit not to press their amendment.
Lord Avebury: If this amendment undermined one of the principles of the Bill, and that was all it did, I would be warmly in favour of it. But the trouble is that it leaves another of the principles of the Bill un- impaired and that is the creation of two different classes of citizenship which is what we objected to in the Green Paper of April 1977. The reason why I could not support the creation of separate citizen- ships for each of the dependent territories is because in the Liberal response to the Green Paper we called for a unified citizenship with those who lived in all the dependent territories, except Hong Kong, which would have its own citizenship entitled to exactly the same quality of citizenship as people who live in the United Kingdom itself. That, of course, includes the right of abode in the United Kingdom.
So we believe that the right course of action is not to have a number of separate citizenships for the Falkland Islands and so on but to incorporate them all in the British citizenship provided for under this Bill, to grant them the right of abode. We believe, in-. cidentally, that the people in the other dependent territories would be no more likely to exercise the right of entry into the United Kingdom, and no less likely for that matter, than the people of Gibraltar would be after the concession we made to them this afternoon.
Lord Mishcon: Earlier told the Committee of a recollection that I have of a beloved figure in this House, the first Viscount Samuel who, when pro- posing a toast to the Civil Service, paid them a very warm tribute and then said that the one thing he would always remember them for is that they had a problem for every solution. Whoever prepared the brief for the noble Lord, Lord Trefgarne, belongs high up in that category.
I do not intend at this hour to debate the issue which is contained in the first part of this amendment. I say that because it is so important that I think we would do an injustice to the dependent territories if this matter were debated in Committee distinguished by its quality but not its quantity at this hour. I think that the best thing we can possibly do, in view of Lord Trefgarne's answer to the first part, is to leave this to the report stage, if the noble and learned Lord who moved this amendment happens to be of that mind when we have completed our speeches on this amendment.
But, on the second part, I listened to the noble Lord, Lord Trefgarne, with absolute amazement. I do not think he could have had his head, let alone his heart, in the speech that he made. The noble Lord, Lord Renton, I think, earlier on accused me on the Gibraltar debate of letting the cat out of the bag. The whole
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of the case of the Government in regard to this Bill, as the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, in his short speech said, was that really, although there were categories of British citizenship in this Bill, everybody had very considerable rights and they were admitted to British citizenship in one form or another, and indeed it was ridiculous even to say that British overseas citizens had no rights at all and that it was a mere name.
We are now dealing with citizens who belong to the British dependencies; I will not again at this hour go into the desirability of that name. We are talking about a passport and about the ability of those citizens of British dependencies coming within that category to show without any mystery when they travel abroad- the name "British dependent territories" might be known by now to members of your Lordships' Com- mittee, but it is not equally familiar, and will not be for many years, to immigration officials of high intelli- gence throughout the world-their attachment and the fact that they belong in one way or other to the great British family.
With great respect to the noble Lord, Lord Trefgarne, who travels abroad regularly and, I am told, pilots himself with great skill, I am sure he has many a time shown his passport with great pride to immigration officials. As he will agree, usually they do not even look at the outside; they immediately turn to the first page to which he referred. Is it really beyond the power of the Government, within the principles they have tried to outline for the Bill, to agree to a formula on page one of that passport saying and then in brackets the dependency concerned? That would give no rights, it would not mislead the intelligent immigration official, and it would not mislead the holder of the passport. It would make him just that much nearer a member of the family and, as I said, able to go with dignity throughout the world with the passport he holds.
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British citizen
I
The noble Lord, Lord Geddes, is an expert on Hong Kong. I have had the opportunity, as he and other noble Lords, of meeting those who are fairly high up in the representation of Hong Kong in this country. I do not want to identify any nearer than that. know of the concern that the people of Hong Kong have—and, I am sure, the people of other dependencies have about this very small concession in regard to the wording of the passport in the way that was indicated by my noble and learned friend. I hope that at this hour some of us who feel very much about this matter will have at least influenced the Government Front Bench to have a little more breadth of view and under- standing in the matter and that there will at least be an undertaking to look again at the second part of the amendment so that we do not have to argue this case again on Report, as we certainly will do if the Govern-
ment do not make that concession.
Lord Geddes: I would go further than the noble Lord, Lord Mishcon; I would, certainly in the case of Hong Kong (and I speak personally, as each member of the Committee does) be loath to see any reference to the country itself on the inside page. On the out- side cover, as Lord Mishcon rightly said and my noble friend Lord Trafgarne agreed, there is printed the name of the country concerned. Surely that is suf- ficient for the passport.
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