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Second Reading, of the British !
Nationality Bill
Oral Answers
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RECEIVED IN REGIMAY NO. 51 03 FEB 1981
·EXTRACTS
22 JANUARY 1981
debate next week in have demandel BESK OFF of State an
INDEX hon.
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WEDNESDAY 28 JANUARY-Supply [6th Allotted Day]: Debate on Opposition motion on increasing povery resulting from Government policies.
Motions on the Judgments Enforcement (Northern Ireland) Orders.
THURSDAY 29 JANUARY-Supply [7th Allotted Day]: Motion to take note of 8th and 9th reports and 11th to 35th reports from the Committee of Public Accounts in Session 1979-80, and related Treasury Minute.
FRIDAY 30 JANUARY--Private Members' Bills. MONDAY 2 FEBRUARY-Second Reading of the Education Bill and of the Insurance Companies Bill
Mr. Foot: May I put four questions to the right hon. Gentleman, two arising from exchanges a few minutes ago, and two others? First, I shall refer to the two ther questions. May I urge upon the right hon. Gentleman afresh that the British Nationality Bill should be taken on the Floor of the House? Is he aware that we cannot accept the doctrine that a Bill that can affect the nationality of people who may have a claim to British citizenship should not be regarded as a constitutional Bill? The Government will get into even greater difficulties if they try to deal with it elsewhere. We prefer-and it is by far the best way that it should be dealt with on the Floor of the House. An alternative is that it could go to some other investigatory process, but the Floor of the House is the proper place. May I urge the right hon. Gentleman once again to take that into account?
I turn to the question of the seamen's strike. Will the Government make arrangements for a statement on that matter? Do they intend simply to allow it to drift on without any attempt to deal with it, especially as the National Union of Seamen is prepared to go to arbitration? I hope that the Government will begin to accept some responsibility and that whatever else the right hon. Gentleman says he will make an announcement about an early statement.
I turn to two matters that arose earlier in Prime Minister's Question Time. First, I wish to raise the question of the possible sale of The Times and The Sunday Times. That matter should be debated in the House. In the light of a possible announcement at 5 o'clock today, it has become a matter of extreme urgency. Because of the way in which the management has dealt with the matter, those important newspapers-important to the freedom of the press in Britain-could be closed in March. I should be surprised if any hon. Member in any quarter of the House did not regard it as a matter of some significance. Will the right hon. Gentleman give an undertaking that he will rearrange the business so that we can debate the matter on Monday?
I turn now to the question of the unemployment figures. There is a great difference between 1.3 million unemployed and 2-3 million unemployed. That is a difference of 1 million, and it is the direct responsibility of the Government during the time that they have been in office. We renew our demand that the Government should recognise that the unemployment position throughout the country is unprecedented. Therefore, the Minister should be prepared to make a special statement.
We hae no complaints about the way in which the right hon. Gentleman answers his questions. He does it with extreme courtesy. However, a matter of such great importance—we think that the country will take this view-warrants a full statement to the House and a full
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hope the the
Leader of the House will be prepared to rearrange the No. 31
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business in the light of what I have said and will make a fresh business statement tomorrow.
Mr. Pym: I took very seriously the representations of the right hon. Gentleman and the Opposition on the handling of the British Nationality Bill. It is an important matter for the House. You yourself, Mr. Speaker, in a statement last week, said that there was no definition of such a Bill. The issue has been decided on grounds of custom and practice. The exceptions to our normal Standing Committee procedures are urgent Bills, simple Bills, or Bills of first-class constitutional importance. The Government's view is that the Bill does not fall into any of those categories, especially the last one.
Mr. Foot: The right hon. Gentleman must be joking.
Mr. Pym: I ask the right hon. Gentleman to listen for a little longer. I have taken the representations into account and the relevant precedents, including the two most obvious ones that might argue in the right hon. Gentleman's favour. The British Nationality Act 1948 was described by the then Government as a natural sequel to the Statute of Westminster. They also described it as a measure of the utmost constitutional importance. The British Nationality Bill is much more limited in scope. Secondly, there is the Commonwealth Immigrants Act 1962. That was the first occasion upon which we legislated to introduce immigration controls. That measure was taken on the Floor of the House. However, all subsequent Immigration Acts, of which the Bill is cerinly of the same type, have been taken in Standing Committee, including the 1971 Act, which created the status of "patrial" and "non-patrial".
Having gone into the issue extremely carefully, I think it reasonable to say-this is the Government's view-that the Bill is not of the same category of importance and that it would be appropriate to take it in the normal way. I thought that I owed it to the House and to the right hon. Gentleman to say that I had gone into the issue carefully.
Secondly, the right hon. Gentleman referred to the seamen's strike. Naturally we still hope that there will be a settlement between the employers and the unions. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Trade is in touch with what is taking place. I shall discuss the possibility of a statement with my right hon. Friend. If it is appropriate, we can make the necessary arrangements. The right hon. Gentleman asked me to rearrange the business on account of two further matters. I agree that they are both extremely important. We have not yet had the announcement on The Times. We do not know what it will be. The right hon. Gentleman may know. It is an important issue, but it could not possibly be right to rearrange the business on Monday for what he asks. Let us not be under any misunderstanding about the importance of the matter.
That applies equally to unemployment, which obviously is extremely important. I have nothing to add to what my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister said a short while ago. There was a debate in October and a further debate in November. The week before last there was a debate under a general economic heading in which employment was very relevant. My right hon. Friend the
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