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Iran:
[19 MAY 1980 ]
new and existing and renewed contracts. As your Lordships will realise, this decision, although we had done a lot of work on it, was taken only yesterday morning, and so far there has not been any time to look into it in any great detail. But certainly work will have to be done in that respect.
Lord SHINWELL: My Lords, while applauding the efforts of the Foreign Secretary in this connection, may I ask whether he really believes that in view of the reluctance of some of the Govern- ment representatives at the conference, and their attitude, the sanctions are likely to prove effective? Further, was there any discussion, whether public or private, on the subject of the Russian invasion of Afghanistan; and can he say what was the reason for the hurried departure of President Giscard d'Estaing to meet Mr. Brezhnev? Was it for the purpose of asking not only his consent on the subject of sanctions against Iran but also about their attitude on Afghanistan?
Lord CARRINGTON: My Lords, I think that the Nine countries represented at the meeting in Naples yesterday, at which I was present, are all intending to do and to carry out the policies which were decided yesterday, and I have no doubt whatever about that. As to whether they are successful, time alone will tell; but I think there are two impor- tant factors which have to be borne in mind and I have said this to the noble Lord before. One is that we are part of an alliance, and when our friends are in trouble and they ask us to do something, and we are concerned about the future of that alliance, we do not disregard our friends when they are in trouble. The second thing is that there is no doubt whatever about it that the very fact that the Nine leading European countries have decided to take this action will be noted in Iran as evidence of the disapproval by the Nine of the action which the Iranian Government has taken and continues to take.
With regard to the other question which the noble Lord, Lord Shinwell, asked me, this, as the noble Lord opposite knows, was one of those private, unstructured meetings which are not supposed to take place with anybody's knowledge. On this occasion it took place with everybody's knowledge because we had to make a
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decision about Iran. But I do not think that an informal meeting of this kind ought to be the occasion when I let your Lord- ships know exactly what happened during the meeting. I think it was an informal meeting, and not a council meeting; but exceptionally it made the decision about Iran. With regard to the motives behind President Giscard d'Estaing's visit to Warsaw, I think perhaps the noble Lord might address himself to the source.
GORONWY-ROBERTS:
My
Lord Lords, may I, with the indulgence of the House, intervene briefly once more and assure the Foreign and Commonwealth Secretary that his absence was more than agreeable to the House I hope he will not take that in the wrong way-in that we knew that he was engaged in very constructive work in other places. We only wish that the meetings he had in Vienna might conceivably be duplicated in, let us say, other capitals of Europe, such as Warsaw. We would feel a little more confidence about the future if that were so. But may I support my noble friend Lord Shinwell in what he has said,
admittedly about an aspect of the dis- cussions which did not figure in today's Statement; namely, our great concern as to how things are going in the exchanges about Afghanistan? No doubt the Foreign Secretary, as he always does, will seek the earliest possible opportunity of causing a Statement on the progress of discussions about Afghanistan, and the situation arising from the position there, to be made in the other place, and will himself present it in this place.
Lord CARRINGTON: My Lords, of course I will do that. I think that there is at the moment, in a sense, a disturbing lack of progress over Afghanistan. But last week there was an opportunity, particularly in Vienna, for an exchange of views which I think was very useful. I had an opportunity to meet Mr. Muskie and the French and German Foreign Ministers together, and we had a dis- cussion; and I also had an opportunity to meet Mr. Gromyko. Nothing else, as far as I was concerned, but Afghanistan was discussed with Mr. Gromyko. I cannot say that I was enormously en- couraged, in the sense that there is ob- viously still a very wide difference between the positions of the Soviet Union and Britain; but I still think that if there is
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